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Anthem
01-12-2010, 10:40 AM
It's odd.

Everybody agrees we need a talent upgrade on the team. Fine, I don't disagree. So what type of player should we target?

Ideally, obviously, we'd be holding onto our young / low contract guys while moving Troy/TJ/Dunleavy and maybe Foster. That's probably not realistic... teams are gonna want some cheap young talent back.

We need to make at least one salary cap trade, just for the sake of getting under the tax next year. This month is going to be the easiest time to do that.

Other than that? I have no idea. SF is covered. C and PG are starting to look decent. So do you pursue a stud PF / SG? We're already (numerically) loaded at both positions, but a quantity-for-quality trade would be nice.

So what type of players should we pursue? Any names?

Unclebuck
01-12-2010, 11:00 AM
I think you are looking at it all wrong. Instead of trying to determine what position we need an upgrade in, or what type of talent we need, I look at it this way. We need an infusion of talented players at any position and those talented players must be tough mentally and physically, and must play with heart and effort.

Several times this year the Houston Rockets have been mentioned as a model and Rick Adelman has been given a ton of credit for that team. That team is easy to coach because of all the effort and team guys they have on their roster - give me some of those type players - if we can get that and more talent, things can turn around for the Pacers very quickly

Maybe as simple as this, get me more players like Tyler Hansbrough

Pacerized
01-12-2010, 11:02 AM
I'm not sure that I'd rule anything out other then SF. Hibbert may be the center of the future for us, but it wouldn't hurt to bring in a great C, or PF if the trade were there. A center like Kamen could play PF while on the court with Hibbert, and C while on Hibberts is out. With Foster, and Murphy gone in the near future, and Solo being nothing but a deep bench player on a good team, I think a big man would be my first choice.
Other then that I'd focus on a great PG, or SG. When you think of the number of players that won't be here in 2 years, the door is almost wide open on how to build this team.

Slick Pinkham
01-12-2010, 11:08 AM
Recruit very talented players of high character rather than highly talented characters.

I think Red Auerbach said something like that!

Brad8888
01-12-2010, 11:13 AM
It totally depends on what type of team we are going to try to be going forward, and who will be coaching us.

Will we continue down the current path where Danny and Troy are the core of the offense and we have no one who we are willing to play at PF who can play defense? Will we turn into a team that actually has an inside presence at the 4-5 on both ends of the floor and turn Granger back into the monster sf that he so needs to be for his health's sake? Are we going straight to all salary dump all the time to maximize our flexibility as quickly as possible, while maximizing our potential for getting high draft picks both through our own poor performance as well as acquiring more picks through trades with other teams who have already dumped at least some salary and can take some of ours back more easily as long as the deal is sweet enough (trading Granger)?

Jonathan
01-12-2010, 11:40 AM
I would like to see a guy that can catch the ball on the wing and penetrate to the bucket. We may have that in AJ Price.

I am not in panic mode @ all. It is going to be interesting to see how this year pans out.

sportfireman
01-12-2010, 11:42 AM
A young hardworking, atheletic, defensive PF.

EDIT: oh yeah we have one..........Josh McRoberts!!!!! Trade Troy!!!!!!

Trader Joe
01-12-2010, 11:51 AM
Other than that? I have no idea. SF is covered. C and PG are starting to look decent. So do you pursue a stud PF / SG? We're already (numerically) loaded at both positions, but a quantity-for-quality trade would be nice.

So what type of players should we pursue? Any names?

I would caution with this, last year we thought we were set at SG and needed an upgrade at PG before we get all hyped about AJ's great play, we need to take a deep breath, only one guy on this team should have a guaranteed role, and that is Granger. Everyone else's spot is up for grabs, we have a chance to make a talent upgrade at ANY other position in the starting lineup (PG, SG, PF, C), we have to do it. We can't pass on it just because AJ MIGHT be the PG of the future or Roy MIGHT be the inside scorer on the future. We aren't a team that can afford to be that picky.

Gamble1
01-12-2010, 11:55 AM
I would like to see a sg that can pop the 3 at a high percentage and play reasonably good D. On this team it just looks like sg is the most unstable position that we have right now and if we could solidify that postion I think it could go along way to helping out the team.

Speed
01-12-2010, 12:00 PM
Team needs are interior defense and athleticism, too me.

Problem is it can't "just" be those things alone.

------------------

The position needs...

a true point guard. In the makes everyone else at the sacrifice of his own numbers. Isiah Thomas the player, not the other jobs he's held. (AJ has played well, I do know this)

A 2 guard that's more athletic than Dunleavy, smarter and less scared than BRUSH, and taller and more consistent than Luther Head.

A Power Forward who can defend at a very high level in today's NBA and isn't your leading scorer and best small forward too. (Hansbrough has played well, I do know this too)

A Center who can make other teams shoot jump shots (I know Roy is averaging 1.7 something blocked shots a game)

-------------

In general, a legit 2nd best player.

--------------

Names? I mean realistically, no. If you put Chris Paul on this team, they'd have home court advantage in the first round of the playoffs, imo.

I guess you could say Joe Johnson, maybe, but he's a FA the wrong year. Jamaal Crawford could have been had last year and would have been nice.

Young guys to develop, Derozan, Bellinelli from last night? Derozan could be a Jerry Stackhouse type, maybe. Bellinelli looked like Ginolbli, young and out of control, but the same potential skill set maybe.

How bad does Larry Brown hate Gerald Henderson? Maybe him?

Granville
01-12-2010, 12:26 PM
I would target young guys with potential or expiring contracts. I would, for the most part, only part with Ford, Dunleavy, Murphy, and Foster. I would add players that aren't part of our young core (Head, Diener, Jones, etc) as needed.

Is this possible? Probably not, but maybe a contender takes on one of our big contracts in an attempt to "get over the top."

What I would NOT do is make any trade that simply makes us a little better. Don't go out and get a John Salmons or Brad Miller or Tyson Chandler. I know those guys haven't been mentioned, they are just names off the top of my head that would maybe add a couple of wins to our total, but not make a big impact. I also don't know their contract situations. I'm just using them as examples of marginal talent upgrades.

We are rebuilding. It stinks. But, we need to get off the treadmill of being the eighth or ninth or tenth seed in the East. Sometimes you have to get worse to get there. We may be in that situation. We keep hearing 2011. I can suffer through a few more lousy years to get there. Don't make marginal upgrades an push the effort out to 2013 or 2014.

Speed
01-12-2010, 12:29 PM
Don't go out and get a John Salmons or Brad Miller or Tyson Chandler. .

Good list off the top of your head!!

I agree, for sure in concept. You don't want to hitch your wagon to guys who can have a minimal impact.

90'sNBARocked
01-12-2010, 12:30 PM
I would go after Joe Johnson with the precise movement of one of the chicks from Kill Bill Vol 1

BornReady
01-12-2010, 12:48 PM
okafor

pianoman
01-12-2010, 12:57 PM
The way I see it, most of our starters SHOULD be bench players for very good teams at best. Danny and Roy being the exceptions. Danny can be the number 2 option on a championship team. He's our Paul Pierce. Roy could start on quite a other teams. Miami, Chicago, Detroit, New York, Houston, and Portland come to mind. ( Houston and Portland without Yao/Oden)

The players we should target depend on who we should keep for our run in 2011. Breaking it down, I think Danny and Roy will start.
-Brandon should be the first wing off the bench, and shoud be used as a defensive specialist.
-Mike Dunleavy should be resigned to a shorter contract, and be the second wing off the bench.
-Dahntay will probably be with us still for his experience and leadership.
-Our savior at PG AJ Price should be our primary backup pg, depending on how he develops.
-Jeff's career might be over by the time 2011 rolls around.
-Tyler will probably be the first big off the bench.
-McBob probably will be the 15th man.
-TJ/Luther/Solo will be gone
-Troy, if not traded this year, will be traded by 2011.

This leaves our team with Danny, Brandon, Mike, Tyler, Roy, McBob, AJ, and DJones. The positions that would need to be filled would be starting SG, PF, and starting PG.

Now, as much as I can be bashed about this, I think Larry will make a HUGE run for Chris Paul for our 2011 season. (So will the rest of the league) but we will need that dominant allstar point guard to make a championship run. He'd demand quite a bit of money, which means we'd have to be wise about finding a starting sg and PF. This would be more realistic if we got the 1st pick in the draft. If so, trade that and Dahntay and Murphy, and 2 1sts there for CP3 and filler to make it work.

An option for SG would have to be Monta Ellis, but it would be extremely difficult to get him here. If we are strapped for cash after finding our pg of the future, I'd just slide Dunleavy into the starting lineup, and put Dahntay in as our 2nd wing off the bench.

Power forward will be the easiest in my opinion. Simply go after Udonis Haslem. He'd fit great between Hibbert and Granger. He's a PF. Not a stretch pf, and not a pf playing center. I'm talking about a HEALTHY pf that does not take the 3. He's money from mid range. I think he'd be the easiest to acquire.

As unrealistic as my rambling has sounded, there is a method to my madness.

Getting the first round pick would be the best thing that has ever happened to the pacers. But I would not use it If I had the option of taking Paul. It would have to be a desperation move by New Orleans. They will need to shed some cash quickly. They are also concerned because IF they do not win with Paul, he may consider signing with a new team. They'd get Wall, who could very well be better than Paul, but that is a risk Indy has to be willing to take. Paul has 2 years left on his contract with a player option on his final year. If Indy can win with him, he might stay.

Now, that was if we won the draft. He'd be much more difficult to acquire if we didn't win. As a matter of fact, he'd be almost impossible to get. If that is the case, I'd look to Tony Parker, or to a lesser extent, DJ Augustin.

Monta Ellis would be tough to get in as well, but he has a large contract, that GS may look to get rid of. Again, here we'd have to throw in a lot to get him. I just don't know what they'd want of ours outside of AJ,DG,or ROY. That is why I'm saying it isn't vital to get another sg.

Udonis Haslem is an expiring contract 2010/2011 so he will be a free agent who will be easy to sign. Need I say more?

Our best case scenario for the 2011-2010 team would be
Roy Hibbert/McBob/ 1st rounder 2011
Udonis Haslem/Hansbrough
Danny Granger/Rush
Monta Ellis/Dunleavy
Chris Paul/Price

Add some role players like Admunson from Phoenix, resign watson, and another big man, and we'd be champions for sure!

So, enough of my sunshine... the best options we're looking at are Augustin, Caron Butler, possibly Kevin Martin, or another borderline allstar.




Or to answer your question simply,

Allstar PG (Paul, Parker)
True SG (Ellis)
Banging PF (Haslem)

Role players like Waston and Admunson.

Lance George
01-12-2010, 12:58 PM
Someone who's complete, who can deliver on both ends of the court, and is a good-to-great athlete.

I'm not asking for much.

Peck
01-12-2010, 12:58 PM
I've come to the conclusion that it is useless to target players who we think will fit into what we need as a team as long as Jim O'Brien is the coach.

As long as he is here we need to just draft, trade or sign as free agents players that we know up front that he will play and that he can use in whatever system he wants to employ.

Doing otherwise is a complete waste of time.

Bball
01-12-2010, 01:25 PM
We need an upgrade in talent at the coaching position. Everything else is just a waste of time actually understanding what we do have as far as players and how they could mesh or develop... and what we really do need.

vnzla81
01-12-2010, 01:31 PM
I will target anything from pg's to center's to coaches, the pacers need everything.

Gamble1
01-12-2010, 02:05 PM
So, enough of my sunshine... the best options we're looking at are Augustin, Caron Butler, possibly Kevin Martin, or another borderline allstar.




Or to answer your question simply,

Allstar PG (Paul, Parker)
True SG (Ellis)
Banging PF (Haslem)

Role players like Waston and Admunson.

Who would be easier to get Kevin Martin or Ellis. TO me Martin looks to be an easier pick up than ellis.

I would like to see Pietrus on our team as well.

Trophy
01-12-2010, 02:08 PM
We don't need anymore wingmen. That's a good way to start off.

90'sNBARocked
01-12-2010, 02:14 PM
We don't need anymore wingmen. That's a good way to start off.

any player that

Can not hit a 3pt shot
loves defense
is above average athlete

PaceBalls
01-12-2010, 02:26 PM
We need someone to stretch the floor.

Hicks
01-12-2010, 02:30 PM
I agree with those saying it's dangerous to be too specific in who you target. It's better to be more generic and simply see if you can do a move that you feel improves the overall talent of the roster.

Bball
01-12-2010, 04:37 PM
I agree with those saying it's dangerous to be too specific in who you target. It's better to be more generic and simply see if you can do a move that you feel improves the overall talent of the roster.

If they don't 'stretch the defense' they're not going to play....

That is the conundrum I'd have trying to figure out who stays and who goes. Last off season we were told we need defensive minded players... apparently that wasn't quite true...

docpaul
01-12-2010, 04:41 PM
It's odd.

Everybody agrees we need a talent upgrade on the team. Fine, I don't disagree. So what type of player should we target?

Ideally, obviously, we'd be holding onto our young / low contract guys while moving Troy/TJ/Dunleavy and maybe Foster. That's probably not realistic... teams are gonna want some cheap young talent back.

We need to make at least one salary cap trade, just for the sake of getting under the tax next year. This month is going to be the easiest time to do that.

Other than that? I have no idea. SF is covered. C and PG are starting to look decent. So do you pursue a stud PF / SG? We're already (numerically) loaded at both positions, but a quantity-for-quality trade would be nice.

So what type of players should we pursue? Any names?

For the past two years, I've continued to have a man-crush on Carl Landry... I think he'd be an outstanding complement to Hibbert.

Problem is, his stature is starting to rise in the league. Man, I wish we would have made a push for him back when he was a RFA.

ChicagoJ
01-12-2010, 04:41 PM
From the comments last week, I think we should focus on getting a PF that is at least as good as Garnett, if not better. Maybe somebody needs TJ Ford?

:clown:

ChicagoJ
01-12-2010, 04:44 PM
If they don't 'stretch the defense' they're not going to play....

That is the conundrum I'd have trying to figure out who stays and who goes. Last off season we were told we need defensive minded players... apparently that wasn't quite true...

No, silly. Can't you see? We need DEFENSIVE players that can stretch the opponent's defense.

I think it is obvious that what we need to really run this system properly is to trade for a lineup of Paul - Bryant - James - Garnett - Howard. With Wade as the Sixth Man and Murphy can be the first bigman off the bench.

I think those guys could probably win 50-55 games per season with this system.

Peck
01-12-2010, 05:45 PM
No, silly. Can't you see? We need DEFENSIVE players that can stretch the opponent's defense.

I think it is obvious that what we need to really run this system properly is to trade for a lineup of Paul - Bryant - James - Garnett - Howard. With Wade as the Sixth Man and Murphy can be the first bigman off the bench.

I think those guys could probably win 50-55 games per season with this system.

Unless you are changing coach's I think Murphy starts over Howard in that lineup.

Notice I'm not using green.

ChicagoJ
01-12-2010, 05:55 PM
Yeah, my first draft included Dirk in that role. But what was I thinking?? That would have been an embarassing mistake.

Will Galen
01-12-2010, 06:36 PM
Right now we have a season and a half to go on our three year rebuilding plan, and it won't be until after that that we will presumably become a contender. That means we still have two drafts to go though and we don't know where we will be picking, or what type of player.

We do need to make one trade to get under next years lux tax. That likely means we have to trade one of Ford, Murphy, Foster, or Dunleavy. The Pacers have tried to trade Ford and didn't find any takers so have apparently abandoned trying to trade him. Of the other three it would appear that Murphy is most likely.

So the way to go in doing any trade is to target a young player with upside, along with an expiring contract.

sportfireman
01-12-2010, 06:40 PM
Unless you are changing coach's I think Murphy starts over Howard in that lineup.

Notice I'm not using green.

:laugh:

dlewyus
01-12-2010, 06:45 PM
Once JOB and Murphy are gone (the sooner the better). I'd like to see the Pacers get someone like David Lee or Okafor to start at PF (next to Roy) and could slide to C when needed to shorten the rotation to 3 bigs. Hans being the 1st big off the bench.

90'sNBARocked
01-12-2010, 06:47 PM
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Chat.asp?CHAT_TOPICS_ID=712



Eric P in Naptown:
Eric, will two of the following be traded by deadline : Troy Murphy, Mike Dunleavy, Jeff Foster, TJ Ford ? Any clue where?

Eric Pincus:
Murphy and Foster seem the most likely - I don't see anywhere for Dunleavy or Ford right now. Perhaps Murphy to Cavs/Foster to Nuggets. As I noted, the Pacers have resisted trading Jeff for years. Murphy? He's movable

Naptown_Seth
01-12-2010, 06:49 PM
How bad does Larry Brown hate Gerald Henderson? Maybe him? Maybe there's an issue there that we don't know about, that Henderson suddenly lost a sweet moving jumpshot and the ability to throw down a monster dunk through traffic, but right now I'm laser focused on him as a target.

He looked like a truly gifted and capable NBA SG last year at Duke. His benching is more curious than Bayless. At least Bayless as gotten some decent PT at times and ended up shooting poorly and perhaps not playing defense up to snuff. Henderson by most counts was a great defender last year.

Giving Brown's near insanity with some players (ahem, Mark Jackson AND Jalen Rose for starters), I wouldn't take his opinion on anyone. If he hates the dude so much, time to trade. I'd trade McBob or Rush for him even. Seriously.

Hicks
01-12-2010, 07:19 PM
If they don't 'stretch the defense' they're not going to play....

That is the conundrum I'd have trying to figure out who stays and who goes. Last off season we were told we need defensive minded players... apparently that wasn't quite true...

Jim will play who he has to play. If you trade away Troy for a guy who doesn't hit 3's, he's not going to just refuse to play that guy if he's talented enough to be playing (more talented than D.Jones, before anyone goes there).

NapTonius Monk
01-12-2010, 07:57 PM
any player that

Can not hit a 3pt shot
loves defense
is above average athlete

Why would you want a player that can't hit the 3? I don't mind the 3 point shot. I mind our team lacking the judicial restraint when taking them.

DaveP63
01-12-2010, 08:00 PM
As much as I dislike Haslem, I have to admit, I'd love have him. I think we'd be well served with a true PG or SG. I mean a real SG that can consistently hit shots. Like Mike when he was healthy.

Anthem
01-12-2010, 08:03 PM
Maybe there's an issue there that we don't know about, that Henderson suddenly lost a sweet moving jumpshot and the ability to throw down a monster dunk through traffic, but right now I'm laser focused on him as a target.

He looked like a truly gifted and capable NBA SG last year at Duke. His benching is more curious than Bayless. At least Bayless as gotten some decent PT at times and ended up shooting poorly and perhaps not playing defense up to snuff. Henderson by most counts was a great defender last year.

Giving Brown's near insanity with some players (ahem, Mark Jackson AND Jalen Rose for starters), I wouldn't take his opinion on anyone. If he hates the dude so much, time to trade. I'd trade McBob or Rush for him even. Seriously.
Oh man, that's an interesting thought. I wonder what they'd want.

judicata
01-12-2010, 08:09 PM
A 4/5 tweener who can move his feet and swing his elbows. Like a younger, healthy Foster who can actually put the ball in the basket.

A PG who takes care of the ball and hits the open shot. (We may have this, but its hardly certain).

Anyone who can get to the cup and finish with some kind of regularity.

They all need to play good defense, and one of them needs to be a legitimate star.

We do not need anymore wings who chuck 3s but have suspect handles and can't get to the rim.

Anthem
01-12-2010, 08:40 PM
How bad does Larry Brown hate Gerald Henderson? Maybe him?
All right, check it out:

http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?p=943838

Mr. Sobchak
01-12-2010, 10:54 PM
Maybe there's an issue there that we don't know about, that Henderson suddenly lost a sweet moving jumpshot and the ability to throw down a monster dunk through traffic, but right now I'm laser focused on him as a target.

He looked like a truly gifted and capable NBA SG last year at Duke. His benching is more curious than Bayless. At least Bayless as gotten some decent PT at times and ended up shooting poorly and perhaps not playing defense up to snuff. Henderson by most counts was a great defender last year.

Giving Brown's near insanity with some players (ahem, Mark Jackson AND Jalen Rose for starters), I wouldn't take his opinion on anyone. If he hates the dude so much, time to trade. I'd trade McBob or Rush for him even. Seriously.

I hate to burst your bubble but I watched Henderson's workout this summer and he was awful...Couldn't hit an outside shot to save his life. He showed his awesome athleticism but was definitely lacking in the skill department. He played well at Duke his Junior season but don't forget he was a late bloomer. Almost Joe Alexander-esque. I'm not saying that he won't ever become a solid NBA player but there is no way I would have drafted him at 12.

Dr. Awesome
01-12-2010, 11:01 PM
Latrell Sprewell would be nice, or anyone willing to choke the coach for that matter.




...too soon?

Bball
01-12-2010, 11:42 PM
Latrell Sprewell would be nice, or anyone willing to choke the coach for that matter.




...too soon?

Not too soon at all..

maragin
01-12-2010, 11:55 PM
A capable assistant coach who can facilitate a smooth transition to head coach when the time is right.

thelostpacer
01-13-2010, 12:19 AM
i think right now a a shooting foward or power banger

jeffg-body
01-13-2010, 01:26 AM
At this point I would look at young talent first regardless of position.

If that falls through secondly I would look for talented bigs or PG's with reasonable contracts.

If that doesn't pan out I would look at a combination of very talented and proven wing and draft pick, preferrably 1st rounder.

If that proves to be futile I would pursue straight expirers and hope to get a mid 1st round draft pick from another team to "sweeten" the deal.

If that proves to be a total loss I would look in the area of expirers only for a descent salary dump and hopefully snag their 1st rounder here as well. As far as who to include in such trades I would say everyone but Granger, Hibbert, and Tyler. Everyone else could be trade meat. I would possibly want to hang onto AJ though. :fingerscr

pwee31
01-13-2010, 06:07 AM
umm good players?

OakMoses
01-13-2010, 09:02 AM
The main thing I'm looking for would be guys who can play basketball and not increase our athletic deficit every time they step on the court. After 2+ years of Murphy and Dunleavy, I'm sick of constantly being the least athletic team on the floor.

Bball
01-13-2010, 09:31 AM
No, silly. Can't you see? We need DEFENSIVE players that can stretch the opponent's defense.

I think it is obvious that what we need to really run this system properly is to trade for a lineup of Paul - Bryant - James - Garnett - Howard. With Wade as the Sixth Man and Murphy can be the first bigman off the bench.

I think those guys could probably win 50-55 games per season with this system.

Howard would have to work on his 3 point shooting... Unless he can stretch the defense he'd be benched...