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Hicks
01-11-2010, 12:46 AM
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/12166/more-trade-chatter-if-thats-ok
Mark Stein
ESPN.com


Denverís desire to acquire an extra big man to throw at the defending champs from L.A. is no secret.

What I didnít realize until the weekend is the need to start describing the Nuggetsí affection for Pacer lifer Jeff Foster in stronger terms.

Love is the word used by two sources close to the situation.

The obstacles to a Foster-to-Denver deal, though, are considerable.

Obstacle No. 1: Foster has one more season left on his contract after this season at nearly $6.7 million and has a 15-percent trade kicker in his contract. As much as the Nuggets would be thrilled to have Foster Ė giving them one more mobile counter to all of the Lakersí feared size Ė thatís a lot to take on for a team thatís already looking at a luxury-tax payment in July of more than $5 million.

Obstacle No. 2: My man Chad Ford noted in his latest chat that the Nuggets would almost certainly need to find a third team to facilitate a deal for Foster unless they were willing to surrender rookie guard Ty Lawson. And you obviously presume Denver won't be surrendering the speedy Lawson, who Chad says Indy nearly chose ahead Tyler Hansbrough and looks like an absolute steal as last June's No. 18 pick.

MillerTime
01-11-2010, 12:53 AM
It would be awesome if we could get Lawson back. But its not happening

Dr. Awesome
01-11-2010, 12:55 AM
They have nothing I'd want outside Lawson.

MikeDC
01-11-2010, 01:03 AM
Lawson seemed like an absolute no-brainer for us in the draft, but I gotta agree that there's no way the Nuggs give him up now.

Looking over their roster, I don't see much room for a deal there. Maybe JR Smith? But he's such a screw-off I don't think the Pacers would want him. And there's not any obvious savings there.

Lance George
01-11-2010, 01:13 AM
Make it a three-way with Cleveland with any sweetener from the rumored Murphy deal instead going to Denver. Perhaps Foster + Hickson or Cleveland's 1st would be enough for them to let go of Lawson. Doubtful, but not completely implausible.

CableKC
01-11-2010, 01:23 AM
As I mentioned before....of the Big 4....Foster would likely be the easiest to move.....but unfortunately he would also be the one Player ( among the 4 ) that we can't afford to lose

This is the very reason why I'd do a straight up Murphy for Z deal.......to avoid making any trade with Foster that would essentially be a Salary Dump. I have no problem with a salary dump for Murphy......mainly cuz it would remove JO'Bs crutch while eliminating the biggest of the Big 4 Contracts ( which would go a very long way to improve our SalaryCap/Financial situation next season ).....but IMHO, Foster is the type of Player that I think that we need in a JO'B Offense/Defense ( which we'd likely be stuck with for another season ).

Wait a sec....can we even trade Foster to the Nuggets and get back an Expiring Contract and/or Trade exception?

I'd guess I'd seriously consider it if we could get Lawson out of it....which I doubt....otherwise, I'd be reluctant to move Foster....only as a last resort before the Trade Deadline expires.

Unless we could get Lawson for Foster along with

cordobes
01-11-2010, 01:45 AM
Lots of contenders would love a healthy Foster. Is there a schedule for his return? He was playing well in the games I saw of him this season. Nimble feet. Didn't know about the trade-kicker; Sham doesn't mention it, that's uncommon. Denver has really little to offer, I wonder how can they pull such a trade.

ksuttonjr76
01-11-2010, 02:13 AM
They can have Foster for Ty Lawson. On the real, Indiana real season will begin in 2011.

imawhat
01-11-2010, 02:57 AM
It would never happen, but I'd love to have J.R. Smith if we had to give up Foster.

JR's had problems in the past but appears to be on a good path now. Plus, I think he's highly underrated (but his shooting % is really low this year) and is a great bump up in talent. He'd be great next to Granger.

But nothing would please me more than a Tayshaun for Troy Murphy trade, and not only because of my distaste for Detroit (see the next part of Stein's article). I couldn't dream of a better PF combo for Detroit than Villanueva/Murphy. And I think Tayshaun could temporarily help the Pacers.

dohman
01-11-2010, 04:39 AM
I wonder how foster would feel about this. He loves Indiana but this would be his shot to play for a contender as his career started to go downhill.

vnzla81
01-11-2010, 06:39 AM
nooooooooooooo I would never trade Foster to another team, I want him to retire as a pacer even if that means that we get Ty Lawson back.............:rolleyes:

Anthem
01-11-2010, 07:23 AM
Um, I think the article's pretty clear that we're not turning down Foster for Ty. If that was an option, we'd already have a deal done.

travmil
01-11-2010, 08:23 AM
Man that 15% trade kicker is killer. That adds an extra million onto his salary and would increase Denver's luxury tax payment by that much too. So essentially they would be paying 8.7 million for 1 year of him, and giving up Lawson to do it. I like Jeff and he'd be good with them but they'd be crazy to do that.

count55
01-11-2010, 08:28 AM
Lots of contenders would love a healthy Foster. Is there a schedule for his return? He was playing well in the games I saw of him this season. Nimble feet. Didn't know about the trade-kicker; Sham doesn't mention it, that's uncommon. Denver has really little to offer, I wonder how can they pull such a trade.

The TK isn't shown anywhere, but I know he had one previously. I would imagine that, since this is an extension of his previous contract, the TK was extended with it.

MikeDC
01-11-2010, 09:05 AM
The TK isn't shown anywhere, but I know he had one previously. I would imagine that, since this is an extension of his previous contract, the TK was extended with it.

I like Foster as much as the next guy, but giving him a trade kicker is just nuts.

Unclebuck
01-11-2010, 09:20 AM
Here is CBS Sports' Ken Berger's take on this

http://ken-berger.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/11838893/19513612?source=rss_blogs_NBA


The Nuggets were close to a deal for a big man last week – so close that one scenario was on the verge of being presented to ownership for approval before it fell through. The deal, discussed at high levels of the organization’s hierarchy, would’ve been more than a minor deal, sources said. Denver is known to covet Jeff Foster, but hasn’t been able to agree on the particulars with Indiana. The Nuggets’ $3.2 million trade exception from the Chucky Atkins deal, which expired last week, wasn’t a factor since Foster makes $6.1 million. The Nuggets still have a $3.7 million exception from the Steven Hunter trade that expires next summer.

Speed
01-11-2010, 09:29 AM
Here is CBS Sports' Ken Berger's take on this

http://ken-berger.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/11838893/19513612?source=rss_blogs_NBA


The Nuggets were close to a deal for a big man last week – so close that one scenario was on the verge of being presented to ownership for approval before it fell through. The deal, discussed at high levels of the organization’s hierarchy, would’ve been more than a minor deal, sources said. Denver is known to covet Jeff Foster, but hasn’t been able to agree on the particulars with Indiana. The Nuggets’ $3.2 million trade exception from the Chucky Atkins deal, which expired last week, wasn’t a factor since Foster makes $6.1 million. The Nuggets still have a $3.7 million exception from the Steven Hunter trade that expires next summer.

Hmmmm, this makes it sound like something was close. Very interesting. I wonder if it was the Foster/Lawson deal AND I wonder what held things up (trade kicker?). Maybe they need to see Foster healthy again to make it happen.

Does Foster for Lawson plus 3.7 trade exception work under the rules?

count55
01-11-2010, 10:29 AM
Hmmmm, this makes it sound like something was close. Very interesting. I wonder if it was the Foster/Lawson deal AND I wonder what held things up (trade kicker?). Maybe they need to see Foster healthy again to make it happen.

Does Foster for Lawson plus 3.7 trade exception work under the rules?

You cannot combine trade exceptions with anything else.

The trade exception can only be used to acquire a player making $3.7mm or less, and as such, is of no value in any deal involving Foster.

Tom White
01-11-2010, 10:32 AM
Hmmmm, this makes it sound like something was close. Very interesting. I wonder if it was the Foster/Lawson deal AND I wonder what held things up (trade kicker?). Maybe they need to see Foster healthy again to make it happen.

Does Foster for Lawson plus 3.7 trade exception work under the rules?

You can't combine a player with an exception. They would need to be used separately.

graphic-er
01-11-2010, 10:49 AM
Not sure if I would want Lawson. How many short and speedy Point guards does this team need? Can Lawson Play defense? Is he big enough to guard a 6-3 / 6-4 point guard?

Justin Tyme
01-11-2010, 11:08 AM
Bad news...
When I read Foster had a TK this morning on another forum, I about reguritated. Why in the heck did Walsh ever give Foster a trade kicker in the 1st place? Then for Bird to keep it in an extension is unfathomable to me with Foster's age, health, and limited assests. It just makes Foster more difficult to to trade. Just another reason I consider giving Foster the type of extension Bird gave him when he gave it as a blunder! I just keep thinking how much value Jack was to the Pacers. Then I compare it to Foster's, oh that's right he's out with an injury.... AGAIN. Oh well, apparently loyalty has to be rewarded at whatever the cost.

The good news...
is the Pacers are in the thick of the John Wall Sweepstakes. I guess if you have to find a silver lining in a dark cloud that is it.

duke dynamite
01-11-2010, 11:17 AM
The good news...
is the Pacers are in the thick of the John Wall Sweepstakes. I guess if you have to find a silver lining in a dark cloud that is it.
You all can call me a homer, but I really want to see A.J. Price as our starting PG by this time next year. Getting John Wall would kind of hinder that...

BRushWithDeath
01-11-2010, 11:21 AM
You all can call me a homer, but I really want to see A.J. Price as our starting PG by this time next year. Getting John Wall would kind of hinder that...

You're a homer.


I love A.J. Price. I think he's our best PG and have been saying so since November. But come on.

Justin Tyme
01-11-2010, 11:28 AM
You all can call me a homer, but I really want to see A.J. Price as our starting PG by this time next year. Getting John Wall would kind of hinder that...


Cough cough, ok. Personally, I don't think you have much to worry about the Pacers getting the #1 pick, b/c if the Pacers didn't have bad luck they wouldn't have any luck at all. I'm not counting on Wall, but 4-7 pick.

Mourning
01-11-2010, 11:30 AM
You're a homer.


I love A.J. Price. I think he's our best PG and have been saying so since November. But come on.

Seconded.

judicata
01-11-2010, 11:33 AM
Not sure if I would want Lawson. How many short and speedy Point guards does this team need? Can Lawson Play defense? Is he big enough to guard a 6-3 / 6-4 point guard?

The kid is shooting over 50% from the field, 45% from behind the arc, has a great assist-to-turnover ratio, and runs the break like a champ. Turning Foster into Lawson would be pretty damn magical in my opinion, even if you ignore the salary components.

Speed
01-11-2010, 11:41 AM
The kid is shooting over 50% from the field, 45% from behind the arc, has a great assist-to-turnover ratio, and runs the break like a champ. Turning Foster into Lawson would be pretty damn magical in my opinion, even if you ignore the salary components.

If things play out with AJ Price and he and Ty Lawson were you PG tandem of the future, I'd be pretty happy.

They'd have a chance to cover the position better than it has been in a looooonnnnggg time.

graphic-er
01-11-2010, 11:46 AM
My reservations are with his defense, I know he has been playing great on the offensive end, but he plays for Denver, wear defense is mostly optional night to night.

I Love P
01-11-2010, 11:52 AM
Why in the hell would Denver trade a bright rookie for Jeff Foster? That seems like larceny to me.

vnzla81
01-11-2010, 12:01 PM
My reservations are with his defense, I know he has been playing great on the offensive end, but he plays for Denver, wear defense is mostly optional night to night.

at this moment you take whatever you can for Jeff Foster and if you can get a guy like Lawson without having to give up any other piece or draft pick you do it.(I don't think is going to happen without giving up price or Tyler)

travmil
01-11-2010, 12:05 PM
My reservations are with his defense, I know he has been playing great on the offensive end, but he plays for Denver, wear defense is mostly optional night to night.

Well dang! That does it, he definitely wouldn't fit in here where defense is obviously a nightly requirement.

judicata
01-11-2010, 12:05 PM
I can't actually believe that this is even a possibility. Denver had their eye on Lawson for two years, and he's turned out better than expected.

Lance George
01-11-2010, 12:10 PM
I really liked Lawson going in to the draft. I thought he could be another Tim Hardaway and thus far he's lived up to my high expectations.


Why in the hell would Denver trade a bright rookie for Jeff Foster? That seems like larceny to me.

It's highly unlikely they would. The only scenario in which I can fathom it happening is if George Karl is convinced that Foster's pesky defense and rebounding could keep the Lakers' mighty front court somewhat in check, enough to make them beatable, and he's willing to sacrifice the long-term for the short-term.

Speed
01-11-2010, 12:10 PM
Ya, they probably wouldn't do the trade, but the reason they might do it is because you need exactly what Jeff Foster brings to maybe take a run at the whole thing, which I agree with.

Jeff is very good defensively in spurts against Dirk, Duncan, Gasol, & Garnett types, imo. I mean almost every team they'll play in the playoffs has a player Jeff could help with.

So do you sacrifice a player that may or may not be your PG of the future for a guy who might give you a better chance the next two years? Which, by the way, is likely Chauncey Billups window too.

I'm not saying Denver should do it, I'm just saying there are reasons for them to consider it.

judicata
01-11-2010, 12:13 PM
They would take Price too, or Watson. They don't have great depth at PG.

Naptown_Seth
01-11-2010, 12:16 PM
You all can call me a homer, but I really want to see A.J. Price as our starting PG by this time next year. Getting John Wall would kind of hinder that...
I agree. There are several other very interesting picks besides Wall. In fact getting Lawson back here doesn't make a ton of sense. Price has up to this point put up pretty strong PG numbers, he's passing it well, the offense runs well when he's in.

So why start yet another youth experiment before you are even getting going with this one?

Wesley Johnson (SYR) as your backup SF instead of Dunleavy sounds really nice, lets DJones stick to SG full time. Johnson is playing his way toward top 5 status.

I mean Wall would be great it seems and Price could be his backup, but I'd rather see help at the PF (for Troy) or SF (for Dun), or another C to replace Solo. Obviously if I had it my way I'd run Josh a lot more to find out what he can regularly give you at PF, and if that is working with Price, Rush, Granger and Roy then you are kinda open to where you could apply more help.

I realize that they don't strike people as outstanding, but I think they have balance and play enough defense to be moderately effective. One ace scorer from the bench (ala Harden or Terry) could be the perfect fit.

BTW, I used to think Singler (Duke) was going to bust, but he's starting to really come on (needs to improve FG%) in the Detlef way and we all know Det's 6th man history.


Bottom line, there will be options. It's not #1 or bust.

Speed
01-11-2010, 12:16 PM
They would take Price too, or Watson. They don't have great depth at PG.

Watson would make sense there and I'd personally like to see AJ start soon, regardless if anything happens. I was looking for a place to say this, actually. I think AJ could be starting by the deadline.

Speed
01-11-2010, 12:17 PM
Right, but if you got the #1 you'd take John Wall regardless.

Lance George
01-11-2010, 12:18 PM
They would take Price too, or Watson. They don't have great depth at PG.

T.J. Ford and Kenyon Martin could be added to any potential deal to get salaries to work. They both have two years remaining. Of course trading Martin may defeat the whole purpose of the deal for Denver.

Justin Tyme
01-11-2010, 12:19 PM
My reservations are with his defense, I know he has been playing great on the offensive end, but he plays for Denver, wear defense is mostly optional night to night.


He'd fit right in Jimmy's system then... shoots the 3 and plays little "D".:D

esabyrn333
01-11-2010, 12:26 PM
Ya, they probably wouldn't do the trade, but the reason they might do it is because you need exactly what Jeff Foster brings to maybe take a run at the whole thing, which I agree with.

Jeff is very good defensively in spurts against Dirk, Duncan, Gasol, & Garnett types, imo. I mean almost every team they'll play in the playoffs has a player Jeff could help with.

So do you sacrifice a player that may or may not be your PG of the future for a guy who might give you a better chance the next two years? Which, by the way, is likely Chauncey Billups window too.

I'm not saying Denver should do it, I'm just saying there are reasons for them to consider it.


I just don't see how we make the numbers work without adding other players Foster and Lawsons salarys aren't close.

Smith and Foster's are I wouldn't want smith though. Maybe Martin & Lawson for Foster & Murphy?

OakMoses
01-11-2010, 12:27 PM
It would unbalance our roster even more, but a Murphy + Foster for Martin + Lawson deal works.

I agree that it's not John Wall or bust. Personally, Evan Turner reminds me a lot of Brandon Roy, and there are quite a few athletic PF/C's that could be great Player X's.

I haven't seen Matthews play yet, or Xavier Henry.

Justin Tyme
01-11-2010, 12:29 PM
They would take Price too, or Watson. They don't have great depth at PG.


Thev problem with this is Lawson and Foster's salaries don't even come close to matching, so who else does Denver have as a filler the Pacers would take? I don't see anyway this deal ever comes to fruitition.

Denver would be better off going after Haywood who is basically a double double guy with an expiring contract with Washington in disaster mode. Washinton really needs a PG for the future, and Lawson fills that need.

Speed
01-11-2010, 12:32 PM
No, I agree the salaries aren't a match, but the question I was answering is why Denver would really really like to have Foster, he's exactly the type of defender they need in the Western Conference. So much so, it might be worth dealing "potential" for him.

It's interesting, but I wonder if Jeff will be a really hot commodity right now in the Western Conference period. I hope he can get back and play soon.

For the record, I like Jeff as much as the next guy, but it would be nice for him to play for a contender and if he can bring in something nice in return, it works for everyone. I'd bring him back in two years to assistant coach or he can do something in the organization, regardless.

judicata
01-11-2010, 12:36 PM
BTW, I used to think Singler (Duke) was going to bust, but he's starting to really come on (needs to improve FG%) in the Detlef way and we all know Det's 6th man history.



I agree that its not #1 or bust, but drafting Singler is beyond the pale. He plays the wrong position, and is a tall jump shooter without any exceptional athletic abilities. And his shooting has been weak. If we're lucky, we end up with Dunleavy, who we already have, and if we're not, he becomes Reddick or Morrison and is a bust, or takes years to become something.

I like Johnson much, much better, but he still plays the wrong position. I would hope that the Pacers trade up or down rather than take another 2/3.

Trophy
01-11-2010, 12:39 PM
I see Jeff retiring and not playing for Denver at all.

MikeDC
01-11-2010, 12:42 PM
Smith is the only guy that sort of makes sense, but he's too much of a knucklehead for this team.

So I guess the obvious solution would be to find a team he does make sense for, and make it a 3 way deal.

Foster to Denver
Smith to ?
? to Pacers

Justin Tyme
01-11-2010, 12:45 PM
It would unbalance our roster even more, but a Murphy + Foster for Martin + Lawson deal works.


No way Denver does that deal. Denver is over the LT as it stands and taking Murphy and Foster puts them even further into the LT this year and next.

esabyrn333
01-11-2010, 12:46 PM
We could do Foster & Murphy for Martin & Lawson.

Then they could swing A Murphy for Ilgauskas. Give them 2 big bodys down low still plus give them cap releif at the end of the year.

We could even throw in a 2nd round pick and Cleveland might give up a first with Ilgauskas....Just a thought.

I wouldn't mind having Martin around to tutor Hans and McBob.

Just the tought of moving Murph brings a tear to my eye.

PaceBalls
01-11-2010, 12:49 PM
Jeff has been injured all season, why would any team even want him? He is a huge question mark for us, let alone another team wanting to trade for him. I doubt he would even pass his physical.

This fantasy of them sending us the best young PG from the last draft in a trade for him is hilarious. :lol:

It might be possible, but we would have to give up Hibbert, AJ or Rush probably.

CableKC
01-11-2010, 12:50 PM
I just don't see how we make the numbers work without adding other players Foster and Lawsons salarys aren't close.

Smith and Foster's are I wouldn't want smith though. Maybe Martin & Lawson for Foster & Murphy?
This is the one aspect of all this that no one seems to be paying attention to....even if the Nuggets were desperate enough to try to make a play for Foster ( assuming that the Lakers are able to "as rumored" somehow trade Bosh for Bynum and therefore strengthening their Frontcourt )....I can't figure out a way for the Nuggets to match salaries and needs for the Pacers without getting a 3rd Team involved....which further complicates things.

Trophy
01-11-2010, 12:59 PM
The Nuggets are also looking at Brendan Haywood.

PacerDude
01-11-2010, 01:05 PM
I see Jeff retiring and not playing for Denver at all.Uh ............... why ??

Contender, Melo, Billups, 15% raise, great city, greater area ........... I would think he'd jump at a chance to finish out his career there.

Speed
01-11-2010, 01:05 PM
This fantasy of them sending us the best young PG from the last draft in a trade for him is hilarious.

Brandon Jennings, Tyreke Evans, Stephen Curry, Jonny Flynn, Ricky Rubio, Jrue Holiday, Eric Maynor, and Jeff Teague, Darren Collison, and AJ Price-you've been put on notice. :D

Lance George
01-11-2010, 01:06 PM
Combining the Murphy to Cleveland and Foster to Denver talk into one trade. (http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=49833)

Trophy
01-11-2010, 01:07 PM
Uh ............... why ??

Contender, Melo, Billups, 15% raise, great city, greater area ........... I would think he'd jump at a chance to finish out his career there.

This is if he doesn't return this season due to health. I see him retiring.

If he does return sometime this season and he is traded to Denver, then he won't retire this year.

There's my opinion.

SkipperZ
01-11-2010, 01:09 PM
You all can call me a homer, but I really want to see A.J. Price as our starting PG by this time next year. Getting John Wall would kind of hinder that...

If the Pacers passed on John Wall because of AJ Price I would officially renounce my fandom of the Pacers until the entire front office was replaced

Trophy
01-11-2010, 01:12 PM
Combining the Murphy to Cleveland and Foster to Denver talk into one trade. (http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=49833)

Bird would probably turn down Martin due to character.

Lance George
01-11-2010, 01:13 PM
So why start yet another youth experiment before you are even getting going with this one?

Lawson's a significantly better prospect than Price, and as you've just stated, we haven't committed much time nor effort to Price yet, so making a change now would be quick and painless.

SkipperZ
01-11-2010, 01:17 PM
Foster to the Nuggets just cannot happen unless Denver allows us to fleece them in a trade.

The point is frontcourt depth so obviously Nene/Kmart/birdman are not options. Discounting players that would serve the Pacers absolutely no purpose, I think its pretty clear that Chauncey, Ty, JR Smith, and Melo are not gonna happen for just Foster.

That leaves Aaron Afflalo? We have no need for another Brandon Rush, even if he might be marginally better. Anthony Carter? We certainly don't need another PG even if he may be slightly better than Earl Watson.

Their expirings are too small to add up to Foster's salary without us having way too many guys on the roster after a trade. (Anthony Carter, Malik Allen and Renaldo Balkman add up to 4.7 mil)

A third team would probably be a necessity

Their

duke dynamite
01-11-2010, 01:17 PM
I agree. There are several other very interesting picks besides Wall. In fact getting Lawson back here doesn't make a ton of sense. Price has up to this point put up pretty strong PG numbers, he's passing it well, the offense runs well when he's in.

So why start yet another youth experiment before you are even getting going with this one?

Wesley Johnson (SYR) as your backup SF instead of Dunleavy sounds really nice, lets DJones stick to SG full time. Johnson is playing his way toward top 5 status.

I mean Wall would be great it seems and Price could be his backup, but I'd rather see help at the PF (for Troy) or SF (for Dun), or another C to replace Solo. Obviously if I had it my way I'd run Josh a lot more to find out what he can regularly give you at PF, and if that is working with Price, Rush, Granger and Roy then you are kinda open to where you could apply more help.

I realize that they don't strike people as outstanding, but I think they have balance and play enough defense to be moderately effective. One ace scorer from the bench (ala Harden or Terry) could be the perfect fit.

BTW, I used to think Singler (Duke) was going to bust, but he's starting to really come on (needs to improve FG%) in the Detlef way and we all know Det's 6th man history.


Bottom line, there will be options. It's not #1 or bust.
It's about time someone agrees with me.

CableKC
01-11-2010, 01:19 PM
The Nuggets are also looking at Brendan Haywood.
He'd make some sense given his Expiring Contract next season....but what is the Nuggets willing to give up to get him?

Expiring Contracts...for now...are worth a lot.....especially to a Team like the Wizards themselves who are over the Luxury Tax Threshold. I'd hope that the asking price for Haywood would be fairly high since it would mean that if they don't hold onto him that they will likely add to their ongong SalaryCap issues.

PaceBalls
01-11-2010, 01:22 PM
Brandon Jennings, Tyreke Evans, Stephen Curry, Jonny Flynn, Ricky Rubio, Jrue Holiday, Eric Maynor, and Jeff Teague, Darren Collison, and AJ Price-you've been put on notice. :D

Well...
I would say he is better than all of those guys, with the exception of Brandon, and Brandon has really come back down to earth after his early play, a case could be made that Lawson has outplayed him since then.

Rubio isn't even in the league... Tyreke isn't a PG, he is a SG, same with Curry.

The rest of those guys, it's not too far of a stretch to rank Lawson higher.

CableKC
01-11-2010, 01:23 PM
Bird would probably turn down Martin due to character.
Other then an unlikely willingness to come to Indy....I don't know of any offcourt troubles with Kenyon Martin since he arrived in Denver.

If he doesn't have any......and it were somehow possible ( yes, no matter how miniscule ) was the chance that Kenyon Martin were to come to Indy ( assuming that we could somehow dump Murphy )...I'd take him without a second thought.

Hicks
01-11-2010, 01:28 PM
What about borrowing a concept from the Murphy to Cleveland rumors?

What if we trade Jeff to Denver for JR Smith and Ty Lawson with the understanding that we'll waive Smith. At which point Denver can try to re-sign him in a month (and probably would; I doubt Smith would bail on them).

I know some of you like Smith, and he's certainly talented, but I wouldn't touch his record with a ten foot pole, and he's not the brightest crayon in the box on the floor, either.

Speed
01-11-2010, 01:33 PM
What about borrowing a concept from the Murphy to Cleveland rumors?

What if we trade Jeff to Denver for JR Smith and Ty Lawson with the understanding that we'll waive Smith. At which point Denver can try to re-sign him in a month (and probably would; I doubt Smith would bail on them).

I know some of you like Smith, and he's certainly talented, but I wouldn't touch his record with a ten foot pole, and he's not the brightest crayon in the box on the floor, either.

I don't understand how the rules work about resigning a guy with Z or in this scenario. Don't you have to basically buy the guy out (Indiana) and then what happens? Then they sign for a min. contract with the original team, since those teams are over the cap?

Just curious of the logistics of it.

Hicks
01-11-2010, 01:35 PM
Highly, highly doubt it, but you could try this: Foster, Murphy, Watson for Lawson, Balkman, and Martin (to be waived).

90'sNBARocked
01-11-2010, 01:37 PM
You all can call me a homer, but I really want to see A.J. Price as our starting PG by this time next year. Getting John Wall would kind of hinder that...

Dont worry Duke,

When have the Pacers EVER had a draft lottery go their way?

Wall wouldnt be a Pacer even if we had the number one pick. He would be instantaneously traded for a subtle but unknown player Obie scouted a 7'1 jump shooting 3 pt specialst from Ukraine

90'sNBARocked
01-11-2010, 01:39 PM
Highly, highly doubt it, but you could try this: Foster, Murphy, Watson for Lawson, Balkman, and Martin (to be waived).

I thinkunder normal circumstances that would work,

however, Karl supposedly called Martin the "heart and soul of the team"

but boy would I love that to go through

MikeDC
01-11-2010, 01:45 PM
Guys, I can't think of any even remotely plausible reason the Nuggets would trade Lawson for Foster.

It's not quite at the LeBron for Troy Murphy level of unlikelihood, but it's pretty close. Like only off by a decimal point.

HC
01-11-2010, 02:04 PM
If the Pacers passed on John Wall because of AJ Price I would officially renounce my fandom of the Pacers until the entire front office was replaced

If AJ Price continues to progress, then I would take two top 10-15 picks for John Wall in a second.

Speed
01-11-2010, 02:08 PM
Aren't they saying Wall has a chance at being a franchise type player at the Point Guard position? I mean those are players you should never pass up. Right?

Would you trade Blake Griffin or Derrick Rose for Hansbrough and BRush?

I mean, and not trying to start trouble, but you probably couldn't trade Danny for the number one pick to pick Wall, from how highly he's thought of. Maybe I'm wrong.

LoneGranger33
01-11-2010, 02:15 PM
You all can call me a homer, but I really want to see A.J. Price as our starting PG by this time next year. Getting John Wall would kind of hinder that...

"The Pacers have outscored opponents by three points with Price on the floor, and have been outscored by 41 while he's been on the bench."
By Conrad Brunner | Jan. 10, 2010

http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/preview_100111.html

I'm not against getting Wall, but I'm a homer for Price too.

90'sNBARocked
01-11-2010, 02:23 PM
Aren't they saying Wall has a chance at being a franchise type player at the Point Guard position? I mean those are players you should never pass up. Right?

Would you trade Blake Griffin or Derrick Rose for Hansbrough and BRush?

I mean, and not trying to start trouble, but you probably couldn't trade Danny for the number one pick to pick Wall, from how highly he's thought of. Maybe I'm wrong.

Naw bro, youre not wrong

When you have several analysts already saying they predict Wall will be BETTER than Derrick Rose, after what Rose has done so far, it is as close as acant miss as Blake Griffin, if not moreso

SkipperZ
01-11-2010, 02:44 PM
If AJ Price continues to progress, then I would take two top 10-15 picks for John Wall in a second.

This would not make any sense.

First of all the AJ Price love on this board is borderline ridiculous. Hes a nice player, much much better than I expected but... John Wall is a franchise changer...

Second even if AJ Price was Chris Paul you STILL take John Wall and make it work... If NY Wins the lotto and Utah gets the first pick, they would still take Wall and if anything look to move Deron.

Hypothetically (if there were no cap concerns) I would trade Danny Granger for John wall and not blink. Regardless of how great some of you think AJ Price is.

HC
01-11-2010, 02:57 PM
I'm not in love with anyone, but if it was me and I felt comfortable with what I had at pg and could bring back two lottery prospects I would probably do it. There will be cap space in the future to go after a proven commodity if need be.

d_c
01-11-2010, 03:02 PM
If AJ Price continues to progress, then I would take two top 10-15 picks for John Wall in a second.

Crazy talk.

HC
01-11-2010, 03:04 PM
Crazy talk.

Why because I am not yet ready to put all of my faith into a college freshman with half a season under his belt? Whatever, call it what you want.

CableKC
01-11-2010, 03:07 PM
"The Pacers have outscored opponents by three points with Price on the floor, and have been outscored by 41 while he's been on the bench."
By Conrad Brunner | Jan. 10, 2010

http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/preview_100111.html

I'm not against getting Wall, but I'm a homer for Price too.
Given how bad things are and how important the PG spot is to the rest of the Team....having both Wall and Price is a happy problem.

Will Galen
01-11-2010, 03:18 PM
Given how bad things are and how important the PG spot is to the rest of the Team....having both Wall and Price is a happy problem.

Exactly! Wall is 6'4 and Price is 6'2, they could play together. Start both of them and then bring Rush in to spell both of them.

d_c
01-11-2010, 03:23 PM
Why because I am not yet ready to put all of my faith into a college freshman with half a season under his belt? Whatever, call it what you want.

Because John Wall is a once in every 5-7 years type of PG talent. I wouldn't care whether he played 4 years of college ball or none at all. He's the type of talent that turns franchises around. AJ Price is a nice little find in the 2nd round, but he's not on that level.

No GM in the league would do what you propose just because AJ Price is on the roster. Not one. They'd all add John Wall to their team and worry about the next move later.

Speed
01-11-2010, 03:31 PM
Nets have the best chance to win the #1 pick and they'll still take Wall even with Devin Harris there.

d_c
01-11-2010, 03:36 PM
Nets have the best chance to win the #1 pick and they'll still take Wall even with Devin Harris there.

Yep.

Warriors would take him even with Ellis/Curry.

Philly would take him even with Lou Williams.

Detroit would take him even with Stucky/Gordon.

And all those guys are better than AJ Price. The NBA is about getting the bigtime talent when you get the chance. You don't avoid that kind of talent if you're ever fortunate enough to get it.

90'sNBARocked
01-11-2010, 03:37 PM
Nets have the best chance to win the #1 pick and they'll still take Wall even with Devin Harris there.

Exactly!!

Ask Dumars if he would like a "do over" on taking Darko becuse they had a SF in Tayshawn Prince , instead of taking Melo:dance::dance:

90'sNBARocked
01-11-2010, 03:38 PM
Yep.

Warriors would take him even with Ellis/Curry.

Philly would take him even with Lou Williams.

Detroit would take him even with Stucky/Gordon.

And all those guys are better than AJ Price. The NBA is about getting the bigtime talent when you get the chance. You don't avoid that kind of talent if you're ever fortunate enough to get it.

and if somehow Utah got the first (from NY) then even with Deron Williams

They still take Wall!!

judicata
01-11-2010, 03:45 PM
He's big enough to play the 2 anyway, no team in the league would pass on him.

d_c
01-11-2010, 03:47 PM
He's big enough to play the 2 anyway, no team in the league would pass on him.

More to the point, no team in the league would pass on him just because they worry about Wall holding back AJ Price. Who cares even if he ruins AJ Price's career? You've got John Wall.

No offense to AJ Price, but he'd be the last thing I worried about if I was lucky enough to have John Wall on my team.

pacergod2
01-11-2010, 04:35 PM
We need to go with a PF/C (assuming we are between 2-10). I will continue to beat this drum. If we can get another first rounder somehow, I would be ecstatic. It would give us that much more flexibility with our drafting and for salary management next year as well.

DGPR
01-11-2010, 05:20 PM
Yep.

Warriors would take him even with Ellis/Curry.

Philly would take him even with Lou Williams.

Detroit would take him even with Stucky/Gordon.

And all those guys are better than AJ Price. The NBA is about getting the bigtime talent when you get the chance. You don't avoid that kind of talent if you're ever fortunate enough to get it.

Unless you are the '84 Trailblazers

DrFife
01-11-2010, 06:07 PM
We need to go with a PF/C (assuming we are between 2-10). I will continue to beat this drum. If we can get another first rounder somehow, I would be ecstatic. It would give us that much more flexibility with our drafting and for salary management next year as well.

Right with ya, PG2. That's exactly what I'm hoping for as well, and late first-rounders should be "on sale" yet again next summer. First, we need to clear some salary....

cdash
01-11-2010, 06:27 PM
This AJ Price love affair has officially gone too far.

SkipperZ
01-11-2010, 08:44 PM
I'm not in love with anyone, but if it was me and I felt comfortable with what I had at pg and could bring back two lottery prospects I would probably do it. There will be cap space in the future to go after a proven commodity if need be.

John Wall isn't just a surefire good player. Barring injury he's a surefire superstar.

I absolutely love Derrick Rose. But even I'll admit that at this point in his progression John Wall is better than Derrick Rose was. He's a better floor leader, passer and shooter than Derrick Rose was and has already shown the capacity to come through in the clutch.

You don't trade that for 2 late lottery picks... You just don't

pacergod2
01-11-2010, 11:03 PM
This AJ Price love affair has officially gone too far.

This John Wall love affair has officially gone too far.

I really like AJ Price's game. At the same time I am not that crazy that I think we wouldn't take Wall if we actually were number one overall. I think Price could be a good starting PG for us as long as we give him the chance. We need legitimate help in the front court. After we get past Hibbert and Hans... there is nobody to build around in the front court. I like McRoberts, but I am going to assume that he is not a buildable piece with the lack of playing time he has gotten. We still need another C/PF even counting McRoberts.

I also really hate the PG's in this draft not named Wall. I think some of the wing players would be good, but I think you could do well with a couple of second round players to cover the wings. There is just sooooo much depth at PF/C in this draft we would be ignorant not to take advantage of that.

Dr. Awesome
01-11-2010, 11:17 PM
I don't care what any of the AJ Price fanatics say, if we got the #1 pick and drafted John Wall, they wouldn't even remember AJ Price's name.

Wall is suppose to be better than Rose, would ya'll not trade AJ Price for Derrick Rose? I'm shocked that anyone here doesn't want Wall because it might hold AJ Price back. Thats like saying "I'll pass on getting Dwight Howard, it would only hinder Roy Hibbert's growth."

pacergod2
01-11-2010, 11:27 PM
Myself and some of the other posters are being realistic in that we won't be sniffing the number one overall pick, so we can talk John Wall until we are blue and gold in the face, but we aren't going to luck our way into this kid... so why is this discussion wrapped up in John Wall?

This thread started as a Denver loves Jeff Foster and turned into a John Wall love fest. The kid is good. I wouldn't say he is better than Rose. Not at this point at least. But he is clearly looking like a top tier PG.

I think Denver could swing a deal with Houston for the expiring contract of Brian Cook (~3.6M trade exception to BC's 3.5M salary). Houston would then get just under the LT and could compensate Denver with their first round pick possibly in return.

Denver could then send Cook, Malik Allen, and Renaldo Balkman for Jeff Foster along with the lower of their or Houston's first rounder. Just a thought.

Denver would probably have to hold onto Cook for 30 days before they could package him with other players in a deal, so we could just continue to keep Foster on the shelf until the trade could be completed.

HC
01-11-2010, 11:57 PM
If John Wall is as good as everyone thinks, and he may be, how long do you think he stays in Indiana? Is he really going to turn the franchise around when he bolts to the bigger market? Furthermore, if Wall is this good, you are probably getting a top 5 pick and another lottery pick to go with it.

d_c
01-12-2010, 12:00 AM
If John Wall is as good as everyone thinks, and he may be, how long do you think he stays in Indiana? Is he really going to turn the franchise around when he bolts to the bigger market?

You'd have him for 4 years on a rookie contract with the rights to match any offers after that. And the Pacers didn't have a problem retaining players when they were a perennial contender, no?

cdash
01-12-2010, 12:03 AM
Myself and some of the other posters are being realistic in that we won't be sniffing the number one overall pick, so we can talk John Wall until we are blue and gold in the face, but we aren't going to luck our way into this kid... so why is this discussion wrapped up in John Wall?

This thread started as a Denver loves Jeff Foster and turned into a John Wall love fest. The kid is good. I wouldn't say he is better than Rose. Not at this point at least. But he is clearly looking like a top tier PG.

I think Denver could swing a deal with Houston for the expiring contract of Brian Cook (~3.6M trade exception to BC's 3.5M salary). Houston would then get just under the LT and could compensate Denver with their first round pick possibly in return.

Denver could then send Cook, Malik Allen, and Renaldo Balkman for Jeff Foster along with the lower of their or Houston's first rounder. Just a thought.

Denver would probably have to hold onto Cook for 30 days before they could package him with other players in a deal, so we could just continue to keep Foster on the shelf until the trade could be completed.

We all realize we probably won't get the #1 pick. Hence the word "if" in all these posts.

HC
01-12-2010, 12:06 AM
You'd have him for 4 years on a rookie contract with the rights to match any offers after that. And the Pacers didn't have a problem retaining players when they were a perennial contender, no?
True but we are a ways from that and many see Wall as being one of the greats. How good do you honestly think Wall will be? Who do you compare him with 3 or 4 years from now?

HC
01-12-2010, 12:11 AM
John Wall isn't just a surefire good player. Barring injury he's a surefire superstar.

I absolutely love Derrick Rose. But even I'll admit that at this point in his progression John Wall is better than Derrick Rose was. He's a better floor leader, passer and shooter than Derrick Rose was and has already shown the capacity to come through in the clutch.

You don't trade that for 2 late lottery picks... You just don't
I would've traded the rights for Rose in exchange for Evans and Hansbrough.

d_c
01-12-2010, 12:17 AM
True but we are a ways from that and many see Wall as being one of the greats. How good do you honestly think Wall will be? Who do you compare him with 3 or 4 years from now?

I dunno, but Wall is considered the best PG prospect in quite some time. He reminds a lot of people of a younger, better Baron Davis. And he's actually more athletic, which is saying something. Go watch clips of Baron from his UCLA days and you'll know what I mean. Think of this guy in terms of impact as a bigger Chris Paul.

He's rated as a better player than Derrick Rose in just about every facet of the game, and Rose was pretty highly touted himself and looks like a damn good player.

You do not pass on talents like Wall. They come along only every so often, especially at the PG position. You don't trade him for two late lottery picks. Late lottery picks can be had all the time. Special talents like Wall can't be.

And you certainly don't pass on him worrying about how you're going to sign the guy in 4 years. Assuming he pans out, he can make your franchise a place that other players want to come play for.

Hicks
01-12-2010, 12:18 AM
If he's a better Baron Davis, assuming he doesn't have Davis' issues, by God we should do whatever we can to get him and keep him.

When Baron wants to be, he's the most talented, best overall PG in the league IMO.

duke dynamite
01-12-2010, 12:21 AM
If he's a better Baron Davis, assuming he doesn't have Davis' issues, by God we should do whatever we can to get him and keep him.

When Baron wants to be, he's the most talented, best overall PG in the league IMO.
The funny thing is that he seems like he never wants to be.

Hicks
01-12-2010, 12:22 AM
The funny thing is that he seems like he never wants to be.

Get him fired up (like TJ did when they were in town), and he does.

jmoney2584
01-12-2010, 01:06 AM
Maybe this should be in another thread, but if anyone has any questions to the kind of player John Wall could be in the NBA, I say to you...Meh: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfINBYmGD1A

And after that mix a slew of other John Wall highlight reels will be available, all good. I suggest checking out the mix of him in the North Carolina ProAms dunking on jerry stackhouse and some other college/nba players. Not sure who else, but thats evidentally who frequents that summer league.

pwee31
01-12-2010, 01:28 AM
http://realgm.net/src_wiretap_archives/63964/20100111/nuggets_were_close_to_landing_big_man/


The Nuggets were very close to acquiring a big man last week, according to Ken Berger of CBS Sports.

The deal, which Berger reports was discussed at high levels within the organization, was more than just a minor deal, according to sources.

Denver is known to have interest in Indiana's Jeff Foster, but they haven't been able to agree on details with the Pacers.

SkipperZ
01-12-2010, 03:53 AM
I would've traded the rights for Rose in exchange for Evans and Hansbrough.

Looking past the fact that Evans was a top 5 pick and not 10-15 as you so stated in your post, that would still be a bad trade IMO. Tyreke is a great prospect but a player like Hansbrough should not even figure into the equation when youre talking about getting a Derrick Rose. And Tyreke is not quite as good a pure point guard prospect as Derrick Rose is. And you just happened to pick the player who is by far the best rookie of this years class as of now...

In my opinion in 3 or 4 years the top 3 pgs in the league will be very clearly a cut above the rest: Chris Paul, John Wall, and Derrick Rose.

And yes I have not forgotten about Deron Williams, Tyreke Evans, Brandon Jennings, and Rajon Rondo as great as all of them are.

also for what its worth this praise is not coming from a John Wall fan. If anything I'm a little bit of a hater. I love Derrick Rose and it bothered me when people would say Wall was a better prospect than Rose. But the more of Wall I see in Kentucky the more I can't deny that it's true.

HC
01-12-2010, 08:40 AM
Looking past the fact that Evans was a top 5 pick and not 10-15 as you so stated in your post, that would still be a bad trade IMO. Tyreke is a great prospect but a player like Hansbrough should not even figure into the equation when youre talking about getting a Derrick Rose. And Tyreke is not quite as good a pure point guard prospect as Derrick Rose is. And you just happened to pick the player who is by far the best rookie of this years class as of now...

In my opinion in 3 or 4 years the top 3 pgs in the league will be very clearly a cut above the rest: Chris Paul, John Wall, and Derrick Rose.

And yes I have not forgotten about Deron Williams, Tyreke Evans, Brandon Jennings, and Rajon Rondo as great as all of them are.

also for what its worth this praise is not coming from a John Wall fan. If anything I'm a little bit of a hater. I love Derrick Rose and it bothered me when people would say Wall was a better prospect than Rose. But the more of Wall I see in Kentucky the more I can't deny that it's true.
No, Tyreke was my favorite going into the draft, and if not for injuries he probably wouldn't be seeing half of the playing time he is. Anyhow, When I said two top 10-15 picks I intended for it to be inclusive of a top 10 and then the other perhaps being outside the top 10. I would not necessarily take Hansbrough myself either, but it seems that is who Larry would have picked regardless so that is why I used him. You aren't going to draft Lawson if you have Evans.

Lance George
01-12-2010, 12:08 PM
I'd be somewhat interested in J.R. Smith. He's been one of the top scorers off the bench for years now, and if elevated to full-time starter, would no doubt be a 20 per-game scorer.

Of course there's the off court stuff that would likely mean it'll never happen...


Off the court

On February 2, 2007, Smith and teammate Carmelo Anthony were involved in a car accident. Neither player was injured in the collision. The only detail released by the team was that the car J. R. was driving belonged to Anthony.[11] (http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/44527/20070202/nuggets_anthony_smith_miss_shootaround_after_auto_ accident)

On June 9, 2007, Smith and two passengers were injured in a car accident on Stagecoach Road in Millstone Township, New Jersey, when the SUV he was driving collided with another car.[12] Smith and a passenger, Andre Bell, were ejected from the vehicle at around 5:30 p.m. Smith's vehicle appeared to have gone through a stop sign and collided with the other car.[12] (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2899338)Smith was taken to Jersey Shore University Hospital.[12] Bell suffered serious head wounds[12] (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2899338) before being pronounced dead on the night of June 11.[13] (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2900023) Smith, the second passenger, and the driver of the other car did not suffer life-threatening injuries.[12] (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2899338) Smith and Bell were not wearing seatbelts at the time.[13] (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2900023)

In October 2008, a grand jury in Monmouth County, New Jersey declined to indict Smith on a vehicular manslaughter charge stemming from the accident. However, Smith is due in court in early January to face summonses stemming from the crash.[14] (http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/01/06/sports/AP-BKN-Player-Injured-Crash.html)

On June 30, 2009, Smith pled guilty to the June 2007 accident. Smith was initially sentenced to 90 days in a Monmouth County (N.J.) jail, but 60 of those days were suspended, on the condition that he completes 500 hours of community service.

On July 31, 2009, the Denver Post reported that Smith was released from jail after serving only 24 days of his sentence.[15] (http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_12954703)

On August 5, 2009 Smith closed his twitter account (jr_smith1) because he was accused of writing in a way that reflected the Bloods gang, specifically replacing his c's with k's.[16] (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/J-R-Smith-shuts-down-Twitter-account-amid-contr?urn=nba,180969)

On August 28, 2009, Smith was suspended 7 games for the 2009-2010 NBA season because of his guilty plea in the 2007 reckless driving incident. The NBA also cited his poor driving record as grounds for the suspension.[17] (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4429517)

Smith's driving record included five suspensions in eight months, but was "in good standing" at the time of the crash in New Jersey. He was required to pay restoration fees and fines. Smith totaled 27 points against his record from April 2005 to January 2006, including eight violations on seven different days. Five citations were for speeding.[18] (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/nuggets/2007-06-12-smith-license_N.htm) Since the accident, he has received two more speeding tickets and three license suspensions in New Jersey.[19] (http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/01/06/sports/AP-BKN-Player-Injured-Crash.html)

He also made a cameo appearance in the music video for "Bedrock" by Young Money.

BornReady
01-12-2010, 12:10 PM
Looking past the fact that Evans was a top 5 pick and not 10-15 as you so stated in your post, that would still be a bad trade IMO. Tyreke is a great prospect but a player like Hansbrough should not even figure into the equation when youre talking about getting a Derrick Rose. And Tyreke is not quite as good a pure point guard prospect as Derrick Rose is. And you just happened to pick the player who is by far the best rookie of this years class as of now...

In my opinion in 3 or 4 years the top 3 pgs in the league will be very clearly a cut above the rest: Chris Paul, John Wall, and Derrick Rose.

And yes I have not forgotten about Deron Williams, Tyreke Evans, Brandon Jennings, and Rajon Rondo as great as all of them are.

also for what its worth this praise is not coming from a John Wall fan. If anything I'm a little bit of a hater. I love Derrick Rose and it bothered me when people would say Wall was a better prospect than Rose. But the more of Wall I see in Kentucky the more I can't deny that it's true.

uhh how about brandon roy?

SkipperZ
01-12-2010, 12:11 PM
uhh how about brandon roy?

i don't consider him a point guard... or dwyane wade for that matter

BornReady
01-12-2010, 12:12 PM
I'd be somewhat interested in J.R. Smith. He's been one of the top scorers off the bench for years now, and if elevated to full-time starter, would no doubt be a 20 per-game scorer.

Of course there's the off court stuff that would likely mean it'll never happen...

lol could we forbid him from driving?

PaceBalls
01-12-2010, 12:56 PM
lol could we forbid him from driving?

I'm more concerned with possible ties to the Bloods gang.... we have had enough gang members on the team for this century. (SJax)

duke dynamite
01-12-2010, 02:46 PM
I'm more concerned with possible ties to the Bloods gang.... we have had enough gang members on the team for this century. (SJax)
I wouldn't go that far and call Stephen a gang member.

Making poor choices doesn't automatically make you part of a gang. Heck, we all make poor choices. I'm not in any gangs.

Hicks
01-12-2010, 02:48 PM
I wouldn't go that far and call Stephen a gang member.

Making poor choices doesn't automatically make you part of a gang. Heck, we all make poor choices. I'm not in any gangs.

Pretty sure Jack is/"was" a Blood, IIRC.

duke dynamite
01-12-2010, 02:52 PM
Pretty sure Jack is/"was" a Blood, IIRC.
He was involved with gangs when he was younger. It's hard telling now but I would think he isn't.

90'sNBARocked
01-12-2010, 02:59 PM
Pretty sure Jack is/"was" a Blood, IIRC.

He grew up in a poor housing project in Dallas, and I am sure there was gangs around him, but the Bloods are in California and although there is bloods in other parts of the country I doubt he was involved

Plus I think Jack is a strange cat, but not a bad one. GS wanted him and so did LArry Brown in Charloette

Just my opinion though

duke dynamite
01-12-2010, 03:00 PM
He grew up in a poor housing project in Dallas, and I am sure there was gangs around him, but the Bloods are in California and although there is bloods in other parts of the country I doubt he was involved

Plus I think Jack is a strange cat, but not a bad one. GS wanted him and so did LArry Brown in Charloette

Just my opinion though
You sure do know a lot about drugs and gangs...

Hicks
01-12-2010, 03:02 PM
All I know is there was the rare red pinstripe #1 Jackson jersey spotted in Indy during his time here, and the Pacers don't make those, and I recall an article stating he always keeps something red in his locker and it had to do with something along these lines. Maybe it wasn't specifically Bloods.

90'sNBARocked
01-12-2010, 03:04 PM
You sure do know a lot about drugs and gangs...

Well considering I have lived in/grown up

Brooklyn and the Bronx

Chicago

33rd and Illinois in Naptown

it was all around me, so I couldnt help notice what was going on

what I did though was chose a different direction (Air Force then College)

Thats what I hope any young man who is reading this understands that no matter what you do have options and you can chose a different path.

Gamble1
01-12-2010, 03:14 PM
Hicks,
If he was seriously invovled with a gang something would have surfaced by now.

90'sNBARocked,
Hard to tell. Even in lowly Indy I have seen blue vs. red. Of course that was back in the 90's but still.

Hicks
01-12-2010, 03:17 PM
Gamble,

I wasn't trying to say he was actively involved. I meant he once was (as a juvenile), and I'm not sure you're ever fully out (even if you're not actively involved, even if you want it or not), and I thought he modestly honored that part of his past by keeping the color red involved somehow.

90'sNBARocked
01-12-2010, 03:20 PM
Hicks,
If he was seriously invovled with a gang something would have surfaced by now.

90'sNBARocked,
Hard to tell. Even in lowly Indy I have seen blue vs. red. Of course that was back in the 90's but still.

Ah the 90's :)


Its a lot of GangFakers

but you are correct there are probably some blods in Nap. I was really upset they brought that bloods crap to Brooklyn

Speed
01-12-2010, 03:22 PM
I know we don't put trade ideas in the main area usually, but why doesn't this work? Other than Jeff's back.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yh75o5b

Denver gets:
Jeff Foster


Indy gets:
Z
JJ Hickson
Ty Lawson

Cleveland gets:
Murphy
Balkman
Grahm
Allen

I mean if you're against the trade of Lawson for Foster you're against it, but if you're going to do it, what's wrong with this?

You could even throw Clevelands #1 to Denver as sweetner, since I'm not sure how high they are on Balkman and might not want to lose him and Ty Lawson.

PaceBalls
01-12-2010, 03:23 PM
Just google it guys, SJax has openly stated he is a member, reps the colors and all that crap.

90'sNBARocked
01-12-2010, 03:47 PM
Just google it guys, SJax has openly stated he is a member, reps the colors and all that crap.

Well

Thats EXTREEMLY disappointing and also BS (that he is still a member) he is not pulling drivebys

I believe he said it, I just dont believe he is an "active" member

man my respect for him just plummeted

besides how can he have time to bang when he is constantly "making love to pressure"

:)

d_c
01-12-2010, 03:47 PM
I know we don't put trade ideas in the main area usually, but why doesn't this work? Other than Jeff's back.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yh75o5b

Denver gets:
Jeff Foster


Indy gets:
Z
JJ Hickson
Ty Lawson

Cleveland gets:
Murphy
Balkman
Grahm
Allen

I mean if you're against the trade of Lawson for Foster you're against it, but if you're going to do it, what's wrong with this?

You could even throw Clevelands #1 to Denver as sweetner, since I'm not sure how high they are on Balkman and might not want to lose him and Ty Lawson.

Those two teams are just giving up a too much in either of those trades. Chauncey Billups is what, 34? They probably view Lawson as an eventual successor. They're not trading that guy for Foster, who is basically on his last legs at this point.

I know that the Cavs DESPERATELY wanted to get Stephen Jackson, but the entire time of negotiations, it was understood that Hickson was off the table the. Cleveland was offering a re-signed Wally and some other stuff to make salaries match. I'm not even sure Z was on the table, but it was pretty well known that Hickson was not.

Let's just put it this way: Larry Bird isn't the guy preventing those two trades from happening. If those other two teams agreed to that, those trades would've already happened.

owl
01-12-2010, 03:49 PM
It could be coincidence but does anybody find it odd Jeff has not played at all recently?
It could just be injury related but with the fact it has been reported Denver almost made a deal for a bigman I wonder.

90'sNBARocked
01-12-2010, 03:49 PM
Those two teams are just giving up a too much in either of those trades. Chauncey Billups is what, 34? They probably view Lawson as an eventual successor. They're not trading that guy for Foster, who is basically on his last legs at this point.

I know that the Cavs DESPERATELY wanted to get Stephen Jackson, but the entire time of negotiations, it was understood that Hickson was off the table the. Cleveland was offering a re-signed Wally and some other stuff to make salaries match. I'm not even sure Z was on the table, but it was pretty well known that Hickson was not.

Let's just put it this way: Larry Bird isn't the guy preventing those two trades from happening.

I could be wrong but I believe Cleveland offered Big Z for S Jax, but the Warriors said no

d_c
01-12-2010, 03:50 PM
I could be wrong but I believe Cleveland offered Big Z for S Jax, but the Warriors said no

It was the other way around. Cleveland simply did not want to lose insurance for Shaq.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/10119/the-overnight-latest-on-stephen-jackson


Sources say that both LeBron and Shaq -- although they have no plans to say so publicly – like the idea of acquiring Jackson. But Cleveland’s reluctance to part with Zydrunas Ilgauskas and his $11.5 million expiring contract in the exchange, which would make the Cavs smaller as a team and strip them of their O’Neal injury insurance, has been well chronicled.

90'sNBARocked
01-12-2010, 03:51 PM
It was the other way around. Cleveland simply did not want to lose insurance for Shaq.

yeah but wouldnt they have released big Z so he could reign with Cleveland?

d_c
01-12-2010, 03:55 PM
yeah but wouldnt they have released big Z so he could reign with Cleveland?

Don't know. Maybe the Warriors wanted to play Z (they are not known as a franchise to do other people favors). Maybe the Cavs were worried he'd sign somewhere else.

All I know is it didn't happen.

Tom White
01-12-2010, 03:56 PM
Gamble,

I wasn't trying to say he was actively involved. I meant he once was (as a juvenile), and I'm not sure you're ever fully out (even if you're not actively involved, even if you want it or not), and I thought he modestly honored that part of his past by keeping the color red involved somehow.

Hicks, I remember what you are talking about. He kept a red bandana and/or headbands and that kind of stuff. He said something about it reminding him of where he came from.

Speed
01-12-2010, 04:07 PM
Those two teams are just giving up a too much in either of those trades. Chauncey Billups is what, 34? They probably view Lawson as an eventual successor. They're not trading that guy for Foster, who is basically on his last legs at this point.

I know that the Cavs DESPERATELY wanted to get Stephen Jackson, but the entire time of negotiations, it was understood that Hickson was off the table the. Cleveland was offering a re-signed Wally and some other stuff to make salaries match. I'm not even sure Z was on the table, but it was pretty well known that Hickson was not.

Let's just put it this way: Larry Bird isn't the guy preventing those two trades from happening. If those other two teams agreed to that, those trades would've already happened.

I think you're right, maybe, but we do know Denver "loves" Jeff and Zs availability is being talked about by Hollinger and Ford like it's for real. Especially if they can get Murphy. Today on ESPN, Hollinger speculated that Hickson and Z for Murphy, might not even be enough.

So, I'm just going off the "insiders" speculation and this matches what they've said is already in play and possible.

The only thing would be them giving up Lawson, but maybe Clevelands #1 let's them feel better about it.

I guess I'm saying that I'm not making the players up, they've already been mentioned as the main guys going to those teams. This just shows a way that what has already been said, works.

Speed
01-12-2010, 04:13 PM
It was the other way around. Cleveland simply did not want to lose insurance for Shaq.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/10119/the-overnight-latest-on-stephen-jackson

I think maybe Jax's contract size and length probably was a factor, too, for management. Another words, 2 years of Murphy is alot more palateable than 4 years of Jack. If you traded for Jack, you were commiting to that horrible contract and giving up a large trade chip in the process in Z.

I wonder too if Golden State would buy him out, like Indy would likely do?

So I don't think it's Cleveland not being willing to trade Z at all or at least that's not what is being said.

90'sNBARocked
01-12-2010, 04:30 PM
It could be coincidence but does anybody find it odd Jeff has not played at all recently?
It could just be injury related but with the fact it has been reported Denver almost made a deal for a bigman I wonder.


http://www.hoopsworld.com/Chat.asp?CHAT_TOPICS_ID=712



Justin in DENVER:
FOSTER OR HAYWOOD... When does it happen, and who's the better fit???

Eric Pincus:
I hear the Nuggets prefer Foster but the Pacers have a lot of loyalty to Jeff - always have. The Wizards can't afford to be loyal to anyone right now. I'm not sure exactly how the numbers would work since Haywood is an expiring contract. Washington needs some sort of incentive.

Great to hear :(

PaceBalls
01-12-2010, 04:34 PM
When was the last time Foster even played a game? Something smells with all this Foster talk. The guy has a bad back and hasn't even played one solid game this year. I don't get why anyone would even want him.

Lance George
01-12-2010, 04:49 PM
Let's just put it this way: Larry Bird isn't the guy preventing those two trades from happening. If those other two teams agreed to that, those trades would've already happened.

Hickson's not particularly impressive so I doubt he's the hold up. The more plausible scenario is that the Cavs simply aren't offering enough to land a 15/10 PF who's one of the league's best shooters and who comes with zero risk due to his short contract. Maybe if the trade deadline arrives and a better offer hasn't come along then Indy bites, but likely no sooner. As NBA expert Chad Ford said:

Bill (Indy)

Why don't the Cav's trade Z and Hickson to Indy for Murphy and then pick Z back up after the Pacers buy him out?

Chad Ford (1:27 PM)

Cavs can do that if Pacers waive. But there's a waiting period. I think Pacers will probably want more (and can command more) for Murphy that just Z and Hickson.

Naptown_Seth
01-12-2010, 04:59 PM
Exactly! Wall is 6'4 and Price is 6'2, they could play together. Start both of them and then bring Rush in to spell both of them.
Could? Could?

You do know who the coach is, right?

If you draft Wall he's your starting PF, not PG.
:p

Naptown_Seth
01-12-2010, 05:08 PM
Brandon Jennings, Tyreke Evans, Stephen Curry, Jonny Flynn, Ricky Rubio, Jrue Holiday, Eric Maynor, and Jeff Teague, Darren Collison, and AJ Price-you've been put on notice. :D
Teague and Holiday aren't there yet, both should have stayed another year in the NCAA. Collison has been a better team PG (finally) but has a lot to prove. Maynor is very limited, really with just the floater or the pass from the lane if the floater isn't there.

But then you forgot Patty Mills who started out with an injury, so we'll call it a wash. :D

I'm not yet sold on Lawson, similar reasons as Tyler. Both played for a poor defensive team and did their most damage in the transition rather than half court. I hate how high Lawson carries his dribble and keep waiting for that to get exploited.

Maybe I misread him, but I definitely do not rank him higher than Price as a TEAM PG that creates new things in the halfcourt for other players. We'll see.

My opinion is based on the last 2 years of college as much as it is the first 35 games this year.

Naptown_Seth
01-12-2010, 05:28 PM
This John Wall love affair has officially gone too far.

I really like AJ Price's game. At the same time I am not that crazy that I think we wouldn't take Wall if we actually were number one overall. I think Price could be a good starting PG for us as long as we give him the chance. We need legitimate help in the front court. After we get past Hibbert and Hans... there is nobody to build around in the front court. I like McRoberts, but I am going to assume that he is not a buildable piece with the lack of playing time he has gotten. We still need another C/PF even counting McRoberts.

I also really hate the PG's in this draft not named Wall. I think some of the wing players would be good, but I think you could do well with a couple of second round players to cover the wings. There is just sooooo much depth at PF/C in this draft we would be ignorant not to take advantage of that.
Here's what these guys are just throwing out the door and why it's insulting for them to act like Wall is "obviously" the right choice.

You trade Greg Oden and draft Noah AND Rudy Fernandez (or Young, Young, Bellinelli), maybe throw in Landry or Aaron Brooks too

You trade Stromile Swift and draft Turkoglu and Magloire


non-injury/bust
You trade Elton Brand and draft Jason Terry AND Ron Artest (or AK47)

You trade Iverson and draft Kobe AND Steve Nash

You trade Derek Rose and draft Augustin (or Bayless, C Lee, Chamlers) AND B Lopez

Rose for Westbrook AND Doug-Rob AND Kyle Weaver

Lebron for Wade AND Perkins



By draft location these are all realistic opportunities if everyone is sure the top guy is the "sure thing" just like Oden.

The key is to be certain on your picks, and that includes the top guy. If you can't scout then you aren't going to build a team in the draft, period.

Right now Wall hasn't failed. I love him as the top pick, but "once in a lifetime" when we've just see guys like Lebron and Durant and Rose and Chris Paul drafted? More like twice per draft. Wall is not going to be better than Lebron or Kobe or Durant or Rose. As good as, possibly. And some other player in this draft will likely be a superstar or close.

Patterson? Favors? Possibly even a pick around 8-12.

Is this another Beasley vs Rose where the Bulls made the "wrong choice" because they drafted by need?



Would you trade David Robinson for BOTH Reggie and Mark Jackson?

90'sNBARocked
01-12-2010, 05:49 PM
Hickson's not particularly impressive so I doubt he's the hold up. The more plausible scenario is that the Cavs simply aren't offering enough to land a 15/10 PF who's one of the league's best shooters and who comes with zero risk due to his short contract. Maybe if the trade deadline arrives and a better offer hasn't come along then Indy bites, but likely no sooner. As NBA expert Chad Ford said:

Command more?

If any way on Gods green earth that is true and Bord DOESNT move Murphy that will severly hurt my loyalty

d_c
01-12-2010, 06:23 PM
Hickson's not particularly impressive so I doubt he's the hold up. The more plausible scenario is that the Cavs simply aren't offering enough to land a 15/10 PF who's one of the league's best shooters and who comes with zero risk due to his short contract. Maybe if the trade deadline arrives and a better offer hasn't come along then Indy bites, but likely no sooner. As NBA expert Chad Ford said:

I honestly don't think anyone is desperate to land Troy Murphy. At a reasonable price, sure. But nobody is giving up anything that they feel is a key component or prospect to their team.

Troy is a nice role player, but on a contending team, his salary next season is going to run that team up into luxury tax territory (assuming they give back the Pacers an expiring deal).

I think if the Cavs offered just Ilguaskas, the Pacers should jump all over that. It would alleviate a lot of potential payroll problems next season.

90'sNBARocked
01-12-2010, 06:34 PM
I honestly don't think anyone is desperate to land Troy Murphy. At a reasonable price, sure. But nobody is giving up anything that they feel is a key component or prospect to their team.

Troy is a nice role player, but on a contending team, his salary next season is going to run that team up into luxury tax territory (assuming they give back the Pacers an expiring deal).

I think if the Cavs offered just Ilguaskas, the Pacers should jump all over that. It would alleviate a lot of potential payroll problems next season.


Exactly!

judicata
01-12-2010, 06:54 PM
Seth, those trades may have been historically possible, but they are hardly probable. Its hard enough to get those types of players in the top 5, much less from 10-15.

As for Lawson, even if he is just awful in the half court, he still is the best in transition, takes care of the ball (despite your phantom dribbling concerns) and is shooting at an absurd % for a 1 from inside and outside the arc. He's done it off the bench and as a starter against starters, in the West. If you can get him for Foster, do it now before the Nuggets sober up.

Its sad that you just write off an entire Championship team's worth of players because you don't like Carolina basketball (stylistically, if not the program itself).

DaveP63
01-12-2010, 07:04 PM
Cough cough, ok. Personally, I don't think you have much to worry about the Pacers getting the #1 pick, b/c if the Pacers didn't have bad luck they wouldn't have any luck at all. I'm not counting on Wall, but 4-7 pick.

Nope...The Pistons are busy loosing at a rate we cant match...

DaveP63
01-12-2010, 07:09 PM
T.J. Ford and Kenyon Martin could be added to any potential deal to get salaries to work. They both have two years remaining. Of course trading Martin may defeat the whole purpose of the deal for Denver.

Nooooooo...Say no to KMart. Larry wouldn't have him. Interesting idea though.

wintermute
01-12-2010, 07:48 PM
some thoughts on just how much denver "loves" foster. last year, they offered linas kleiza (who they didn't re-sign) and a protected first round pick from charlotte (which hasn't been redeemed yet). expecting them to give up a future rotation player in lawson for foster seems a bit much to expect.

by the way, i think it was mentioned earlier that had we taken the denver trade last year, we would have lawson this year. this turns out to be right. denver ended up using the protected charlotte pick to obtain lawson from the twolves, who drafted him at #20. had we done the denver trade, we could have made the same deal with the twolves.

so does that mean denver should still be willing to move lawson for foster? heck no. the pick has already beaten the odds, so to speak, in that it has returned a rotation player (at worst) in lawson. lawson right now is a lot more valuable than a protected future pick, unless of course you're on a long term rebuilding plan like the twolves are.

so yeah, denver would love to get foster. but not while giving up anything meaningful. with a third team involving jr smith (who the nuggets have supposedly shopped for a while) - possibly. giving up lawson - not likely.

Anthem
01-12-2010, 08:41 PM
by the way, i think it was mentioned earlier that had we taken the denver trade last year, we would have lawson this year. this turns out to be right. denver ended up using the protected charlotte pick to obtain lawson from the twolves, who drafted him at #20. had we done the denver trade, we could have made the same deal with the twolves.
Ouch.

cdash
01-12-2010, 08:55 PM
Here's what these guys are just throwing out the door and why it's insulting for them to act like Wall is "obviously" the right choice.

You trade Greg Oden and draft Noah AND Rudy Fernandez (or Young, Young, Bellinelli), maybe throw in Landry or Aaron Brooks too

You trade Stromile Swift and draft Turkoglu and Magloire


non-injury/bust
You trade Elton Brand and draft Jason Terry AND Ron Artest (or AK47)

You trade Iverson and draft Kobe AND Steve Nash

You trade Derek Rose and draft Augustin (or Bayless, C Lee, Chamlers) AND B Lopez

Rose for Westbrook AND Doug-Rob AND Kyle Weaver

Lebron for Wade AND Perkins



By draft location these are all realistic opportunities if everyone is sure the top guy is the "sure thing" just like Oden.

The key is to be certain on your picks, and that includes the top guy. If you can't scout then you aren't going to build a team in the draft, period.

Right now Wall hasn't failed. I love him as the top pick, but "once in a lifetime" when we've just see guys like Lebron and Durant and Rose and Chris Paul drafted? More like twice per draft. Wall is not going to be better than Lebron or Kobe or Durant or Rose. As good as, possibly. And some other player in this draft will likely be a superstar or close.

Patterson? Favors? Possibly even a pick around 8-12.

Is this another Beasley vs Rose where the Bulls made the "wrong choice" because they drafted by need?



Would you trade David Robinson for BOTH Reggie and Mark Jackson?

Yes, it's really easy to go back in past drafts and trade the top pick for two slam dunk guys a little further down. The fact of the matter is you can draft in the 20s all the time if you pick the perfect guy each go-around, and therein lies the trick. Personally, I don't trust Bird (or most GMs, really) to make two picks there. I'd rather go for the slam dunk guy at the top. That's just me though.

QuickRelease
01-12-2010, 09:59 PM
Command more?

If any way on Gods green earth that is true and Bord DOESNT move Murphy that will severly hurt my loyalty

BORD! That explains everything!

:borg: Man, my corny meter is off the charts today.

SkipperZ
01-12-2010, 11:18 PM
Yes, it's really easy to go back in past drafts and trade the top pick for two slam dunk guys a little further down. The fact of the matter is you can draft in the 20s all the time if you pick the perfect guy each go-around, and therein lies the trick. Personally, I don't trust Bird (or most GMs, really) to make two picks there. I'd rather go for the slam dunk guy at the top. That's just me though.

Exactly right. Another thing to also consider is that there is a difference between the surefire superstar 1st pick (Lebron on the one end) and the others. A consensus 1st pick doesnt make for a franchise player.

Kenyon Martin and Andrew Bogut were consensus number 1 picks, but no one scouting them considered them certain to be franchise players. No one was talking about how teams should tank the season to get a chance at grabbing a Kenyon Martin or an Andrew Bogut or made a big fuss about the draft lottery which would determine who would get them KMart or Bogut.

In recent memory the only guys so highly touted as to be considered franchise changing players were Derrick Rose, Greg Oden, Lebron, and Tim Duncan. Maybe Yao Ming. Injuries curtailed Oden and maybe Yao, but barring injury they would have panned out as well.

I would argue Seth's examples show just how bad trading one of those guys for 2 later picks is. I would say that no one can surely predict which later guys will pan out, and LArry is not the guy to put our faith in when considering draft picks as cdash noted. Yet even still, I would say that Seth's examples, allowing him to pick whoever he wanted, in hindsight , that was drafted later, still show trades I would not take for those top guys I mentioned.

John walls in that "tank the season" "franchise changing" "big fuss about the draft Lottery" category so far. And as long as Kentucky gets to the Final Four, that isnt gonna change.

90'sNBARocked
01-13-2010, 10:08 AM
http://twitter.com/theathhoops


Denver has inquired about Bosh but Toronto was asking for way too much. Nugs nearly nabbed Jeff Foster last week.


I hope it wasnt us that renigged on the deal

Speed
01-13-2010, 10:09 AM
http://twitter.com/theathhoops




I hope it wasnt us that renigged on the deal

I bet it was a straight salary dump propsed by Denver with no Ty Lawson involved, if the Pacers said no.

90'sNBARocked
01-13-2010, 10:37 AM
I bet it was a straight salary dump propsed by Denver with no Ty Lawson involved, if the Pacers said no.

Yeah , I agree it probably was too much in favor of Denver (at least I pray)

With the apparent man crush Bird has on LAwson cant believe they offered him

90'sNBARocked
01-13-2010, 10:42 AM
http://www.hoopsworld.com/chat.asp?status=&CHAT_TOPICS_ID=713



Ced in Geneva, Switzerland.:
Hi steve, I've read everywhere that Denver wants Foster and Cle Murphy. But I never read the beginning of a possible trade, do you got one? thanks.


Steve Kyler:
Most of the time how this works is you hear about who teams are after... not what teams are offering... In Cleveland's case they have been dangling the ending contract of Zydrunas Illgauskas - what likely happens there is Cleveland sends enough cash to buyout Big Z's deal and he returns to Cleveland... so its basically a salary dump if a team wants to go that route... maybe they get second round draft picks as sweetner.

Denver is an odd one because while there is interest in adding a big, unless they send out JR Smith in a deal, they don't have the assets anyone wants.

The name of the trade game is to get better assets without giving up any good ones... where the Pacers are standings wise, some team view them as ripe for the picking, especially if ending contracts are included.

CableKC
01-13-2010, 10:49 AM
If JR Smith is the only Player that the Nuggets are offering.....then pass....I'd settle for Luther Head as a SG....way cheaper...way less Offcourt concerns.

As for Big Z + $$$ + a ( possibly ) 2nd rounder ( or as someone else suggested Powe ) for Murphy + ( possibly ) Diener ( if needed ).....I think that this is the only way for us to make an offer to the Cavs that is more appealing then what the Wizards and Hornets can offer.

90'sNBARocked
01-13-2010, 10:54 AM
If JR Smith is the only Player that the Nuggets are offering.....then pass....I'd settle for Luther Head as a SG....way cheaper...way less Offcourt concerns.

As for Big Z + $$$ + a ( possibly ) 2nd rounder ( or as someone else suggested Powe ) for Murphy + ( possibly ) Diener ( if needed ).....I think that this is the only way for us to make an offer to the Cavs that is more appealing then what the Wizards and Hornets can offer.

Im cool with Big Z and Powe for Murphy

ksuttonjr76
01-13-2010, 11:14 AM
Im cool with Big Z and Powe for Murphy

I am too. Especially if it's the Powe from the Celtics days. He will make an excellent backup to Tyler whom I'm hoping will slide to the starting PF once Murphy is gone.

CableKC
01-13-2010, 11:17 AM
I am too. Especially if it's the Powe from the Celtics days. He will make an excellent backup to Tyler whom I'm hoping will slide to the starting PF once Murphy is gone.
To be fair...I'd prefer McRoberts to be Hansbrough's backup....but I wouldn't mind having Powe.

90'sNBARocked
01-13-2010, 11:27 AM
To be fair...I'd prefer McRoberts to be Hansbrough's backup....but I wouldn't mind having Powe.

I perosnally dont want both Tyler and McBob

I want to know who is the better player then get rid of the other

to me there kind of redundant

PacerGuy
01-13-2010, 11:31 AM
If JR Smith is the only Player that the Nuggets are offering.....then pass....I'd settle for Luther Head as a SG....way cheaper...way less Offcourt concerns.

I gotta disagree w/ this. You take JR & move him to another team (while making JO'B cry), or move him in the off season, either way you take JR & run! His contract expires n/y, so he will have value an an '11 expiring beyond the interest almost any team would have w/ his shooting. While I agree w/ his off-court history not being a direction we need to go, IMO when you are in the position the Pacers are in you need assets. JR would be an asset - a nice asset - be it on the court or (more likely) as a means to aquire (more desired) talent.
The key to any deal w/ DEN is to try & land Lawson. If we can not do that I am far less likely to pull the trigger on a JR/Foster deal, but still might.

Infinite MAN_force
01-13-2010, 11:53 AM
I perosnally dont want both Tyler and McBob

I want to know who is the better player then get rid of the other

to me there kind of redundant

The only thing thats redundent about them is their skin color, seriously, their games are totally different.

Josh is way more athletic, more passive on offense, a better shot blocker, good passing/handles. Hansbrough is much stronger, aggressive on offense, gets to the foul line. Josh would be better suited to gaurding quick perimeter oriented bigs, Tyler would do well against big strong bangers... They both seem to be good rebounders but I might give Josh the edge there. They actually compliment each other quite well from the standpoint of skill sets.

90'sNBARocked
01-13-2010, 11:58 AM
The only thing thats redundent about them is their skin color, seriously, their games are totally different.

Josh is way more athletic, more passive on offense, a better shot blocker, good passing/handles. Hansbrough is much stronger, aggressive on offense, gets to the foul line. Josh would be better suited to gaurding quick perimeter oriented bigs, Tyler would do well against big strong bangers... They both seem to be good rebounders but I might give Josh the edge there. They actually compliment each other quite well from the standpoint of skill sets.

I mean redundant in the sense that both to me are border line bench/sixthman PF's

Infinite MAN_force
01-13-2010, 12:11 PM
I mean redundant in the sense that both to me are border line bench/sixthman PF's

Thats a fair statement. Both are probably closer to backup level, too bad neither one is suited to play center.

Although I don't know if I think a player like Powe is really a step up from either. Another solid bench guy.

Kraut N Beer
01-13-2010, 12:16 PM
I love Foster but he his hurt so much of the time and his game hasn't translated well with Obie's system anyway. If we can get some young talent back or cap relief or both for him, I would move him, even though I love the idea of having Foster play his entire career here.

90'sNBARocked
01-13-2010, 01:11 PM
Thats a fair statement. Both are probably closer to backup level, too bad neither one is suited to play center.

Although I don't know if I think a player like Powe is really a step up from either. Another solid bench guy.

Powe probably isnt , in fact I wish we would have kept Josh Powell , he seems to be good enough to get time with the defeneding NBA champs.

I think McBob is the better athlete , but Tyler is the better Basketball player

90'sNBARocked
01-13-2010, 01:12 PM
I love Foster but he his hurt so much of the time and his game hasn't translated well with Obie's system anyway. If we can get some young talent back or cap relief or both for him, I would move him, even though I love the idea of having Foster play his entire career here.

On that note, its funny how Obie says Foster is his favorite, considering he has really no offensive game

QuickRelease
01-13-2010, 07:19 PM
I gotta disagree w/ this. You take JR & move him to another team (while making JO'B cry), or move him in the off season, either way you take JR & run! His contract expires n/y, so he will have value an an '11 expiring beyond the interest almost any team would have w/ his shooting. While I agree w/ his off-court history not being a direction we need to go, IMO when you are in the position the Pacers are in you need assets. JR would be an asset - a nice asset - be it on the court or (more likely) as a means to aquire (more desired) talent.
The key to any deal w/ DEN is to try & land Lawson. If we can not do that I am far less likely to pull the trigger on a JR/Foster deal, but still might.

I actually like JR Smith. He is an absolutely explosive shooter. His shot selection can be somewhat hard to take. But if you had a night where he and Danny got going, WOW! Other than the car accident, how many off court issues are tied to Smith? (Went back and did a little checking, and he does have quite a bit of off court stuff. We'd probably do well to steer clear of him, as we probably don't have the veteran influences here to handle him veering off in the wrong direction).

pwee31
01-13-2010, 08:16 PM
I bet it was a straight salary dump propsed by Denver with no Ty Lawson involved, if the Pacers said no.


http://twitter.com/theathhoops


Would have been a cost-cutting move for Pacers. I know Graham was involved because he was non-guaranteed and would have been cut

Looking at the Nuggets roster, unless Balkman or Birdman were involved, it would've been quite a few players need to be added to match Foster's 6 mil salary

pwee31
01-14-2010, 12:41 AM
If Denver really was close to acquiring Foster, I wonder what the deal breaker was.. no Lawson? Or lack of anything else that would match with Foster's contract?

BPump33
01-14-2010, 12:34 PM
Per Hollinger's chat:

Jeff (Denver)


Should Denver give up Lawson to get a guy like Foster, doesnt seem worth it for the Nuggets

John Hollinger (12:37 PM)


Nuggets will not give up Lawson in a trade for Foster, and I don't think they'll give him up in any other kind of trade either.

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/30291

CableKC
01-14-2010, 12:38 PM
I'm guessing the hangup was Lawson while the Nuggets were offering a straight-up salary dump type of deal....maybe evening trying to include Smith.

Without knowing where we stand on the Murphy to Cavs offer....I'd hold on considering any Foster for Salary Dump moves until the last possible second.

CableKC
01-14-2010, 12:44 PM
I gotta disagree w/ this. You take JR & move him to another team (while making JO'B cry), or move him in the off season, either way you take JR & run! His contract expires n/y, so he will have value an an '11 expiring beyond the interest almost any team would have w/ his shooting. While I agree w/ his off-court history not being a direction we need to go, IMO when you are in the position the Pacers are in you need assets. JR would be an asset - a nice asset - be it on the court or (more likely) as a means to aquire (more desired) talent.
The key to any deal w/ DEN is to try & land Lawson. If we can not do that I am far less likely to pull the trigger on a JR/Foster deal, but still might.
Given that JR Smith's contract is similiar to Foster and that we have NO room for any more GFs in our lineup, I wouldn't really consider JR Smith.

On top of that.....despite being a solid scorer and decent 3pt shooter...I always thought that he was considered a knucklehead and didn't have a high basketball IQ.

Unlike many of you....although I love to keep Foster....I really think that his ( or one of the other Big 4 ) contracts need to be moved this season for financial reasons. That ( along with being too crowded on the GF rotation and low Basketball IQ ) is why I wouldn't consider trading for JR Smith...much less at the expense of Foster ( who I think is the easiest to move ).

pathil275
01-14-2010, 12:57 PM
Some more grist for the mill..



Impact players most likely to be moved
2. Troy Murphy, F, Pacers
The Pacers look as though they're moving toward a youth movement as they continue to build around Danny Granger. With a number of contending teams interested in Murphy, the Pacers seem to be in the right place to make a deal. While Murphy may be overpaid, there are few bigs in the league that can rebound and spread the floor the way he can. With just one more year left on his contract, Murphy could be the missing piece for a team trying to compete for a title.

The Cavs seem to have the most interest, though several other teams have also told me they'll make a run at him. At the very least, the Pacers should be able to deal Murphy for expiring contracts and one asset (either a draft pick or a young prospect)


6. Jeff Foster, C, Pacers
The Pacers appear to be committed to developing Roy Hibbert and Tyler Hansbrough, leaving little room for Foster -- a mobile, high-energy big man who can defend 4s and 5s.

If you are a Western Conference team trying to stop Pau Gasol, Foster would be a great get. The Nuggets have shown considerable interest in Foster, but they aren't alone. The Blazers, Jazz, Spurs and Suns would all like to get him, too.


Source: Chad Ford for ESPN
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=TradeWatch-0910

Trophy
01-14-2010, 01:09 PM
I'm looking at the whole list right now and I would think there's other players that probably have a better chance of being moved than Troy does based on more teams wanted the players.

Only the Cavaliers are interested in Troy, but players like Boozer, McGrady and Butler are players many teams don't want to miss out on getting.

Same thing with Jeff, I think he has a good chance of being moved, but again a few other players would top him.

It's no surprise that either of these Pacers are on that list, but I wouldn't list them that high.

CableKC
01-14-2010, 01:23 PM
Can someone provide a quick overview of the list?

pathil275
01-14-2010, 02:55 PM
Can someone provide a quick overview of the list?

1. Jamison
2. Murphy
3. Prince
4. Butler
5. A. Miller
6. Foster
7. Hinrich
8. Tyrus
9. Camby
10. Boozer
11. Calderon
12. A. Jefferson
13. Harris
14. Bosh
15. Amare
14.