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View Full Version : Am I reading way, way too much into this?



Hicks
01-09-2010, 08:03 PM
When I caught this comment about Larry Bird, the thought that first went through my mind was that it sounds like how we feel about Jim O'Brien's offense sometimes.

Here's where I may be reading way, way too much into this: Could this comment actually be a revealing tell that maybe Larry Bird doesn't have a problem with this kind of a thing from Jim's Pacers?

Tom E. Curran
CSNNE.com
http://www.csnne.com/pages/landing_patriots?Enjoy-him-now-we-wont-have-Tom-Brady-for=1&blockID=114594&feedID=4023


It must have been around 1990, but I remember it pretty clearly. The time came when I was sick and freakin' tired of watching Larry Bird hoist 3s with 20 seconds left on the shot clock and nobody underneath. Maddening. Momentum-killing.

I wonder.

Cherokee
01-09-2010, 08:07 PM
I think you're reading it and its intended meaning correctly. But those teams were good enough to overcome a bad shooting game by Bird, and Bird did a lot more than just shoot. We don't have anyone even close, IMO.

vnzla81
01-09-2010, 08:08 PM
I think that the big difference here is that he is Larry freaking Bird no Troy Murphy, Mike Dun or whoever the pacers have shooting 3s like crazy.

Hicks
01-09-2010, 08:34 PM
True, Larry was a far superior player to who we have, but at the same time it's never a good idea to shoot a 3 with 20 seconds on the shot clock with no teammates in position to rebound.

Unclebuck
01-09-2010, 08:47 PM
True, Larry was a far superior player to who we have, but at the same time it's never a good idea to shoot a 3 with 20 seconds on the shot clock with no teammates in position to rebound.

I don't agree that it is never a good idea. I have no problem and would encourage players like Bird, Ray Allen, Reggie Miller to shoot a three whenever they are open and feel like they are going to hit it.

IMO having players in position to offensive rebounds is a very overrated notion and it isn't anything I put hardly any stock in at all. I do think it is very important to have good floor balance so you can get back on defense, and I do think it is very important to keep your bigs involved in the offense and jacking up threes before they get across halfcourt can lead to frustration

McKeyFan
01-10-2010, 03:16 PM
When I caught this comment about Larry Bird, the thought that first went through my mind was that it sounds like how we feel about Jim O'Brien's offense sometimes.

Here's where I may be reading way, way too much into this: Could this comment actually be a revealing tell that maybe Larry Bird doesn't have a problem with this kind of a thing from Jim's Pacers?

Tom E. Curran
CSNNE.com
http://www.csnne.com/pages/landing_patriots?Enjoy-him-now-we-wont-have-Tom-Brady-for=1&blockID=114594&feedID=4023

.



I wonder.

The two don't have to be mutually exclusive. In other words, Bird might not like the coach's strategy in 1990 of jacking threes with no one underneath. But as a player he sure is gonna jack a three if told to do so.

Also, on the Thunder's broadcast last night an announcer said he talked with Bird before the game, and I believe there were some comments by Bird saying they were taking too many threes and needed better shot selection. That's my recollection

sportfireman
01-10-2010, 03:25 PM
The two don't have to be mutually exclusive. In other words, Bird might not like the coach's strategy in 1990 of jacking threes with no one underneath. But as a player he sure is gonna jack a three if told to do so.

Also, on the Thunder's broadcast last night an announcer said he talked with Bird before the game, and I believe there were some comments by Bird saying they were taking too many threes and needed better shot selection. That's my recollection


you are correct, they actually made mention of it twice. but if you're the GM and your team is losing ALOT and you don't agree with the coaching then you do something about it unless you are trying to get a high draft pick. IMO:confused:

Kstat
01-10-2010, 03:30 PM
The Celtics in Larry Bird's final 3 seasons won 52, 56 and 51 games.

In those 3 seasons, Bird averaged a little over two 3-point attempts per game. Yeah, he was really chucking them up there...

Naptown_Seth
01-10-2010, 03:38 PM
I don't agree that it is never a good idea. I have no problem and would encourage players like Bird, Ray Allen, Reggie Miller to shoot a three whenever they are open and feel like they are going to hit it.

IMO having players in position to offensive rebounds is a very overrated notion and it isn't anything I put hardly any stock in at all. I do think it is very important to have good floor balance so you can get back on defense, and I do think it is very important to keep your bigs involved in the offense and jacking up threes before they get across halfcourt can lead to frustration
It's not as simple as rebounds though. The game of basketball is a big shuttle run, it's as much about "field position" as football, and where you give up possession on the floor has just as much as in football. Plus in basketball it's also where you are relative to the other team, so if you break out 4 on 1 and blow it your in trouble the other way.

There is something to be said for offense that drags 2-3 defenders all the way to their baseline. Even if you give up possession you have them going the full length and probably have more guys back up court than they do.

It's the same reason you defend the defensive board and disrupt the outlet.

None of that happens on a long 3 by a lone player with no one down there. Yes you are "back on defense", but you didn't force them to work hard on defense at all. If you're playing Sheed, you want him to have to run the floor more.

And lastly you have the double whammy of no FTAs AND no fouls being drawn to either get players off the court or back down their aggressiveness.



Hicks, I think it's a good catch. It would seem to represent a philosophy be believed in, though some coaches/GMs end up being a lot tougher about things they themselves did wrong.


Good points McKeyFan. And also KStat with the numbers on 3PA, although it doesn't address the type of 3PAs they were, it doesn't look "chucky".

Hicks
01-10-2010, 03:50 PM
Of course, if anyone would have the right combination of talent and ego to take a 3 in that situation, it would be Larry Bird. That doesn't mean he thinks every NBA player can/should do that.

I'm thinking there's nothing to this, even though it caught my eye.

McKeyFan
01-10-2010, 04:22 PM
What has occurred to me lately is that Bird is more stubborn than JOS.

And that's scary.

It may answer a lot of questions.

Hicks
01-10-2010, 04:58 PM
What has occurred to me lately is that Bird is more stubborn than JOS.

And that's scary.

It may answer a lot of questions.

Not stubborn enough to cling to White and Williams for years and years to avoid admitting the mistakes.

McKeyFan
01-10-2010, 05:01 PM
Not stubborn enough to cling to White and Williams for years and years to avoid admitting the mistakes.

I hope that means something good.

He never declared he was sticking with those guys. He's declared with JOS.

Hicks
01-10-2010, 05:09 PM
For now.

I wouldn't be shocked if Jim is gone over the summer.

Of course, I wouldn't be shocked either way.

Naptown_Seth
01-10-2010, 05:41 PM
Yeah, I wonder about Bird's public image. It's hard to tell how open he is compared to other GMs so far. And people do change their minds. Bird is obviously sticking with JOB as long as things don't get worse.

But if JOB punched Bird in the mouth and said "bite me", he'd be fired. There is a line and all Bird has said is that up to this point JOB isn't crossing it and doesn't appear to be headed that way.

Two weeks from now that trajectory could look much different. Heck, it could look better too. It could change so that we are all wrong and JOB has things working. Seems unlikely, but I think Bird is on to something when he doesn't feel like he has to make a move just yet.


However it would bother me to find out he approved of 25+ 3PA per game.

cordobes
01-10-2010, 06:43 PM
The Celtics in Larry Bird's final 3 seasons won 52, 56 and 51 games.

In those 3 seasons, Bird averaged a little over two 3-point attempts per game. Yeah, he was really chucking them up there...

I also found that odd. OTOH, in those times taking 3 point shots was much more rare, so maybe the author got that feeling out of that. But personally I never felt it, although I didn't use to pay that much attention to shot-selection those times. Anyway, I read an interview with Bird some time ago where he complained how many people nowadays think he was mostly a long-range shooter when that wasn't such a big part of his game.

I'm a big fan of the transition three, excellent shot. If I have a guy who can make them, I'm going for it more often than not. And it's not even necessary to sacrifice the offensive rebounding. See the UNC early offence with Ellington or Fisher's pull-ups when one of their bigs is doing the post lane sprint.