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McKeyFan
01-09-2010, 02:55 PM
There is a lot of talk out there about who is our second best or third best player.

I would like to propose a way to evaluate our best players based on how good they are on offense and defense, on both sides of the court. Defense is half the game, right?

My ratings on offense and defense are simply arbitrary but I will try to be as fair as possible. Feel free to give your own value and ranking

Granger:
Offense: 95
Defense: 80
Total: 175%

DJones:
Offense: 75
Defense: 85
Total: 160%

Hibbert:
Offense: 90
Defense: 70
Total: 160%

Hansbrough:
Offense: 80
Defense: 75
Total: 155%

Head:
Offense: 85
Defense: 65
Total: 150%

Watson:
Offense: 75
Defense: 75
Total: 150%

SJones:
Offense: 65
Defense: 80
Total: 145%

AJ Price:
Offense: 75
Defense: 70
Total: 145%

Rush:
Offense: 50
Defense: 85
Total: 135%

Murphy:
Offense: 90
Defense: 40
Total: 130%

Foster:
Offense: 40
Defense: 90
Total: 130%

Dunleavy (current injured play)
Offense: 70
Defense: 60
Total: 130%

McRoberts:
Offense: 50
Defense: 75
Total: 125%

Ford:
Offense: 80
Defense: 40
Total: 120

Diener:
Offense: 70
Defense: 45
Total: 115


In review, that comes to:

1. Danny Granger: 175%

2. Dahntay Jones: 160%
Roy Hibbert: 160%

4. Tyler Hansbrough: 155%

5. Luther Head: 150%
Earl Watson: 150%

7. Solomon Jones: 145%
AJ Price: 145%

9. Brandon Rush: 135%

10. Troy Murphy: 130%
Jeff Foster: 130%
Mike Dunleavy: 130%

13. Josh McRoberts: 125%

14. TJ Ford: 120%

15. Travis Diener: 115%


This makes our second and third best players to be Roy Hibbert and Dahntay Jones.

Murphy, Foster, and an injured Dunleavy are tied at tenth best.

I think if you look at who played during our wins and losses, you'll find JOB using our tenth best players a good bit in our losses and our second and third best players a good bit in our wins.

NapTonius Monk
01-09-2010, 02:57 PM
Most Valuable - Hibbert

vnzla81
01-09-2010, 03:00 PM
Hibbert

jhondog28
01-09-2010, 03:03 PM
wait you have Dieners and Duns offense at the same level? I would be hard pressed to think that also you should have an intangibles score. How many minutes do they play, there offensive rebounds, fouls per game, games where they had double figures, clutch shots, etc...I applaud your efforts in drawing this up it just seems like a lot of this to me is on empty numbers. I think AJs offensive number is too high. i think Solomon Jones defense number is too high. those were the two things that stuck out to me.

But right now Hibbert is the second best player probably followed by an injured Dunleavy way behind that.

MillerTime
01-09-2010, 03:05 PM
its probably Murphy

Alabama-Redneck
01-09-2010, 03:09 PM
It's probably Larry Bird. :-o

:cool:

McKeyFan
01-09-2010, 03:11 PM
wait you have Dieners and Duns offense at the same level?

Injured Dunleavy has a terrible fg% and a bunch of turnovers. It was charity to rank him equal with Diener's excellent distribution, low turnover rate, and decent three point shooting.

However, Dun's first few games back might look something like this:

Offense: 90
Defense: 75
Total: 165

I've always agreed with the sentiment that a healthy Dun is one of our best players.

PaceBalls
01-09-2010, 03:21 PM
When Hibbert is the focal point for offense, I think it goes like this.

Danny is the best player on the team. Though that is definately not true all the time, such as last night. But for now,
1. Danny.
2. Hibbert
3. Dahntay
4. Rush
5. AJ?

I think having a solid post game, and inside outside action is key. Defense is what leads to the fast breaks. I swear that team would win alot of games if our coach would play them together and the right way.

pwee31
01-09-2010, 03:57 PM
If everyone is playing to what they're capable...

I'm say Dunleavy is 2nd, followed by Hibbert, Hansbrough, and Rush

vnzla81
01-09-2010, 04:04 PM
If everyone is playing to what they're capable...

I'm say Dunleavy is 2nd, followed by Hibbert, Hansbrough, and Rush

you forgot to use the green letters.......:rolleyes:

Spirit
01-09-2010, 04:27 PM
WHEN he's healthy Dunleavy is the second best by far. Right now in regards to helping the team it's Hibbert. Murphy has the stats but he doesn't help us win.

Dr. Awesome
01-09-2010, 04:41 PM
WHEN he's healthy Dunleavy is the second best by far. Right now in regards to helping the team it's Hibbert. Murphy has the stats but he doesn't help us win.

No way, Dunleavy is a great offensive player, but absolutely horrid on defense.

I'd take Rush over Dunleavy just because he can play 2 ways, same with Dahntay.

Cherokee
01-09-2010, 07:11 PM
Hibbert if JOB would play him down low.

Hoop
01-09-2010, 07:38 PM
Hungry Hungry Hibbert

speakout4
01-09-2010, 07:47 PM
Presently, it's Luther Head

jhondog28
01-09-2010, 07:52 PM
No way, Dunleavy is a great offensive player, but absolutely horrid on defense.

I'd take Rush over Dunleavy just because he can play 2 ways, same with Dahntay.

I would take Dun right now in his form 100 times over Diener. I just cannot believe that if some of you were picking teams on a playground you all would choose diener over dun even with his current state that is just nuts in my opinion. But hey to each his own.

Spirit
01-09-2010, 07:52 PM
No way, Dunleavy is a great offensive player, but absolutely horrid on defense.

I'd take Rush over Dunleavy just because he can play 2 ways, same with Dahntay.

The same Brandon Rush that's shooting 38 percent and that has confidence issues? The same Dahntay Jones that is shooting 13 percent from three and has pretty much disappeared since the beginning of december?

A healthy Dunleavy is 10x better than them two.

Dr. Awesome
01-09-2010, 08:40 PM
The same Brandon Rush that's shooting 38 percent and that has confidence issues? The same Dahntay Jones that is shooting 13 percent from three and has pretty much disappeared since the beginning of december?

A healthy Dunleavy is 10x better than them two.

I said can play 2 ways, not that they do. Dunleavy is incapable of playing defense.

Also, Dunleavy is shooting 39% this season, so I don't see how you can say Brandon's 38% is a huge difference maker.

BlueNGold
01-09-2010, 09:01 PM
I've been digging around for Quarter by Quarter stats and finally found a site. This is a couple years old, but shows Troy Murphy's declining production as the game moves toward crunch time. Rebounds, FG%, 3%, everything slides....as I always knew intuitively.
http://www.82games.com/QTR3S11.HTM
Source 82games.com

I think this is going in my sig...


<TABLE style="WIDTH: 624pt; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=832 border=0><COLGROUP><COL style="WIDTH: 48pt" span=13 width=64><TBODY><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; HEIGHT: 15pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width=64 height=20>Qtr</TD><TD class=xl64 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #33cc33" width=64>Gm (http://www.82games.com/QTR4S1.HTM)</TD><TD class=xl64 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #33cc33" width=64>Min (http://www.82games.com/QTR4S2.HTM)</TD><TD class=xl64 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #33cc33" width=64>+/- (http://www.82games.com/QTR4S3.HTM)</TD><TD class=xl64 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #33cc33" width=64>Fga (http://www.82games.com/QTR4S5.HTM)</TD><TD class=xl64 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #33cc33" width=64>Fg% (http://www.82games.com/QTR4S6.HTM)</TD><TD class=xl64 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #33cc33" width=64>3p% (http://www.82games.com/QTR4S8.HTM)</TD><TD class=xl64 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #33cc33" width=64>Fta (http://www.82games.com/QTR4S9.HTM)</TD><TD class=xl64 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #33cc33" width=64>Ft% (http://www.82games.com/QTR4S10.HTM)</TD><TD class=xl65 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffcc00" width=64>Pts (http://www.82games.com/QTR4S11.HTM)</TD><TD class=xl64 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #33cc33" width=64>Ast'd (http://www.82games.com/QTR4S12.HTM)</TD><TD class=xl64 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #33cc33" width=64>Reb (http://www.82games.com/QTR4S13.HTM)</TD><TD class=xl64 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #33cc33" width=64>Ast (http://www.82games.com/QTR4S14.HTM)</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; HEIGHT: 15pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" align=right height=20>1</TD><TD class=xl66 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=64>75</TD><TD class=xl66 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=64>638</TD><TD class=xl66 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=64>53</TD><TD class=xl66 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=64>3.4</TD><TD class=xl66 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=64>0.451</TD><TD class=xl66 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=64>0.394</TD><TD class=xl66 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=64>1.1</TD><TD class=xl67 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=64>84%</TD><TD class=xl68 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #99ff99" width=64>4.3</TD><TD class=xl67 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=64>72%</TD><TD class=xl66 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=64>2.2</TD><TD class=xl66 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=64>0.6</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; HEIGHT: 15pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" align=right height=20>2</TD><TD class=xl69 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=64>73</TD><TD class=xl69 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=64>538</TD><TD class=xl69 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=64>-73</TD><TD class=xl69 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=64>2.4</TD><TD class=xl69 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=64>0.414</TD><TD class=xl69 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=64>0.4</TD><TD class=xl69 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=64>0.6</TD><TD class=xl70 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=64>73%</TD><TD class=xl68 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #99ff99" width=64>2.7</TD><TD class=xl70 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=64>72%</TD><TD class=xl69 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=64>1.9</TD><TD class=xl69 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=64>0.7</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; HEIGHT: 15pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" align=right height=20>3</TD><TD class=xl69 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=64>75</TD><TD class=xl69 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=64>512</TD><TD class=xl69 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=64>8</TD><TD class=xl69 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=64>2.4</TD><TD class=xl69 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=64>0.528</TD><TD class=xl69 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=64>0.483</TD><TD class=xl69 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=64>1</TD><TD class=xl70 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=64>80%</TD><TD class=xl68 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #99ff99" width=64>3.7</TD><TD class=xl70 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=64>78%</TD><TD class=xl69 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=64>1.8</TD><TD class=xl69 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=64>0.5</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; HEIGHT: 15pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" align=right height=20>4</TD><TD class=xl66 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=64>61</TD><TD class=xl66 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=64>417</TD><TD class=xl66 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=64>-45</TD><TD class=xl66 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=64>1.4</TD><TD class=xl66 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=64>0.4</TD><TD class=xl66 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=64>0.298</TD><TD class=xl66 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=64>0.6</TD><TD class=xl67 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=64>73%</TD><TD class=xl68 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #99ff99" width=64>1.8</TD><TD class=xl67 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=64>82%</TD><TD class=xl66 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=64>1.7</TD><TD class=xl66 style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BORDER-TOP: windowtext; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext; WIDTH: 48pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 0.5pt solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=64>0.6</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

PaceBalls
01-09-2010, 09:13 PM
I would love to see a chart from this year, I imagine it is much more drastic

BlueNGold
01-09-2010, 09:18 PM
I would love to see a chart from this year, I imagine it is much more drastic

What do you think a 29% from three does to a team that relies on him to score down the stretch? I suppose it amounts to 45% from the floor, but you sacrifice your PF from ever fighting for a board.

Down the stretch, that is flat out suicide.

Spirit
01-09-2010, 09:21 PM
I said can play 2 ways, not that they do. Dunleavy is incapable of playing defense.

Also, Dunleavy is shooting 39% this season, so I don't see how you can say Brandon's 38% is a huge difference maker.

I said a HEALTHY Dunleavy. A HEALTHY Dunleavy is a decent, intelligent defender that is an ace on offense and is capable of great percentages.

BlueNGold
01-09-2010, 09:25 PM
I said a HEALTHY Dunleavy. A HEALTHY Dunleavy is a decent, intelligent defender that is an ace on offense and is capable of great percentages.

A healthy Dunleavy is better than Troy in all aspects of the game except rebounding. How many times have you seen Dun get up from drawing a charge? Who is the one moving while shooting a midrange or trey...and who is the one with his feet planted in cement from beyond the arc?

Dr. Awesome
01-09-2010, 09:32 PM
I said a HEALTHY Dunleavy. A HEALTHY Dunleavy is a decent, intelligent defender that is an ace on offense and is capable of great percentages.

Thats like saying a healthy JO would have won us a Championship. Problem is, he is never healthy anymore.

Spirit
01-09-2010, 09:43 PM
A healthy Dunleavy is better than Troy in all aspects of the game except rebounding. How many times have you seen Dun get up from drawing a charge? Who is the one moving while shooting a midrange or trey...and who is the one with his feet planted in cement from beyond the arc?

Exactly.

jeffg-body
01-10-2010, 01:11 AM
I myself have to believe the second best player on our team right now is Hibbert. He is getting better and better as the season rolls along and if he would actually get put in at some crunch times, he'd be able to display his work more often. I love the kids positivity and work ethic.

Suaveness
01-10-2010, 01:54 AM
Why is Granger the best player right now/this year?

PaceBalls
01-10-2010, 01:58 AM
Why is Granger the best player right now/this year?

Because he has the biggest contract, of course. That is why the play him so much.

MillerTime
01-10-2010, 02:25 AM
Because he has the biggest contract, of course. That is why the play him so much.

not really...as long as Murphy is a Pacers, he is getting paid more than Granger

PaceBalls
01-10-2010, 02:31 AM
not really...as long as Murphy is a Pacers, he is getting paid more than Granger

God... that is depressing. Thanks alot MillerTime :mad:

PaceBalls
01-10-2010, 02:47 AM
I said a HEALTHY Dunleavy. A HEALTHY Dunleavy is a decent, intelligent defender that is an ace on offense and is capable of great percentages.

A healthy Dunleavy is certainly a great offensive asset, but he will always be the weak link in defense, unless he is playing with Murphy and Hibbert, then it becomes a toss up on who is really the worst =/

SF is a tough spot to have as your defensive weak link, but whatever, as long as he is the only truly bad spot they can cover for him.

The problem is we have Murph as an even worse defensive weak link, and Hibbert as well, who is the natural weak link at Center. Playing those guys together is just wrong. Anyone should be able to see that. (hello Jim?)

If we had, for instance, Okafur at center, and Dale Davis at PF, then the offensive minded folks on this board could have a good case for Dunleavy being the 2nd best player on the team. Alas, we do not have those players. And as much as we want him to be so good, he is not with the players our coach Jim puts on the court.

JayRedd
01-10-2010, 02:48 AM
I've been digging around for Quarter by Quarter stats and finally found a site. This is a couple years old, but shows Troy Murphy's declining production as the game moves toward crunch time. Rebounds, FG%, 3%, everything slides....as I always knew intuitively.
http://www.82games.com/QTR3S11.HTM
Source 82games.com

I think this is going in my sig...


<table style="width: 624pt; border-collapse: collapse;" width="832" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><colgroup><col style="width: 48pt;" span="13" width="64"></colgroup><tbody><tr style="height: 15pt;" height="20"><td style="border: medium none rgb(240, 240, 240); width: 48pt; height: 15pt; background-color: transparent;" width="64" height="20">Qtr</td><td class="xl64" style="border: medium none rgb(240, 240, 240); width: 48pt; background-color: rgb(51, 204, 51);" width="64">Gm (http://www.82games.com/QTR4S1.HTM)</td><td class="xl64" style="border: medium none rgb(240, 240, 240); width: 48pt; background-color: rgb(51, 204, 51);" width="64">Min (http://www.82games.com/QTR4S2.HTM)</td><td class="xl64" style="border: medium none rgb(240, 240, 240); width: 48pt; background-color: rgb(51, 204, 51);" width="64">+/- (http://www.82games.com/QTR4S3.HTM)</td><td class="xl64" style="border: medium none rgb(240, 240, 240); width: 48pt; background-color: rgb(51, 204, 51);" width="64">Fga (http://www.82games.com/QTR4S5.HTM)</td><td class="xl64" style="border: medium none rgb(240, 240, 240); width: 48pt; background-color: rgb(51, 204, 51);" width="64">Fg% (http://www.82games.com/QTR4S6.HTM)</td><td class="xl64" style="border: medium none rgb(240, 240, 240); width: 48pt; background-color: rgb(51, 204, 51);" width="64">3p% (http://www.82games.com/QTR4S8.HTM)</td><td class="xl64" style="border: medium none rgb(240, 240, 240); width: 48pt; background-color: rgb(51, 204, 51);" width="64">Fta (http://www.82games.com/QTR4S9.HTM)</td><td class="xl64" style="border: medium none rgb(240, 240, 240); width: 48pt; background-color: rgb(51, 204, 51);" width="64">Ft% (http://www.82games.com/QTR4S10.HTM)</td><td class="xl65" style="border: medium none rgb(240, 240, 240); width: 48pt; background-color: rgb(255, 204, 0);" width="64">Pts (http://www.82games.com/QTR4S11.HTM)</td><td class="xl64" style="border: medium none rgb(240, 240, 240); width: 48pt; background-color: rgb(51, 204, 51);" width="64">Ast'd (http://www.82games.com/QTR4S12.HTM)</td><td class="xl64" style="border: medium none rgb(240, 240, 240); width: 48pt; background-color: rgb(51, 204, 51);" width="64">Reb (http://www.82games.com/QTR4S13.HTM)</td><td class="xl64" style="border: medium none rgb(240, 240, 240); width: 48pt; background-color: rgb(51, 204, 51);" width="64">Ast (http://www.82games.com/QTR4S14.HTM)</td></tr><tr style="height: 15pt;" height="20"><td style="border: medium none rgb(240, 240, 240); height: 15pt; background-color: transparent;" align="right" height="20">1</td><td class="xl66" style="border: 0.5pt solid windowtext; width: 48pt; background-color: white;" width="64">75</td><td class="xl66" style="border-style: solid solid solid none; border-color: windowtext; border-width: 0.5pt 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; width: 48pt; background-color: white;" width="64">638</td><td class="xl66" style="border-style: solid solid solid none; border-color: windowtext; border-width: 0.5pt 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; width: 48pt; background-color: white;" width="64">53</td><td class="xl66" style="border-style: solid solid solid none; border-color: windowtext; border-width: 0.5pt 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; width: 48pt; background-color: white;" width="64">3.4</td><td class="xl66" style="border-style: solid solid solid none; border-color: windowtext; border-width: 0.5pt 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; width: 48pt; background-color: white;" width="64">0.451</td><td class="xl66" style="border-style: solid solid solid none; border-color: windowtext; border-width: 0.5pt 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; width: 48pt; background-color: white;" width="64">0.394</td><td class="xl66" style="border-style: solid solid solid none; border-color: windowtext; border-width: 0.5pt 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; width: 48pt; background-color: white;" width="64">1.1</td><td class="xl67" style="border-style: solid solid solid none; border-color: windowtext; border-width: 0.5pt 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; width: 48pt; background-color: white;" width="64">84%</td><td class="xl68" style="border-style: solid solid solid none; border-color: windowtext; border-width: 0.5pt 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; width: 48pt; background-color: rgb(153, 255, 153);" width="64">4.3</td><td class="xl67" style="border-style: solid solid solid none; border-color: windowtext; border-width: 0.5pt 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; width: 48pt; background-color: white;" width="64">72%</td><td class="xl66" style="border-style: solid solid solid none; border-color: windowtext; border-width: 0.5pt 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; width: 48pt; background-color: white;" width="64">2.2</td><td class="xl66" style="border-style: solid solid solid none; border-color: windowtext; border-width: 0.5pt 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; width: 48pt; background-color: white;" width="64">0.6</td></tr><tr style="height: 15pt;" height="20"><td style="border: medium none rgb(240, 240, 240); height: 15pt; background-color: transparent;" align="right" height="20">2</td><td class="xl69" style="border-style: none solid solid; border-color: windowtext; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt; width: 48pt; background-color: rgb(240, 240, 223);" width="64">73</td><td class="xl69" style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: windowtext; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; width: 48pt; background-color: rgb(240, 240, 223);" width="64">538</td><td class="xl69" style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: windowtext; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; width: 48pt; background-color: rgb(240, 240, 223);" width="64">-73</td><td class="xl69" style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: windowtext; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; width: 48pt; background-color: rgb(240, 240, 223);" width="64">2.4</td><td class="xl69" style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: windowtext; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; width: 48pt; background-color: rgb(240, 240, 223);" width="64">0.414</td><td class="xl69" style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: windowtext; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; width: 48pt; background-color: rgb(240, 240, 223);" width="64">0.4</td><td class="xl69" style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: windowtext; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; width: 48pt; background-color: rgb(240, 240, 223);" width="64">0.6</td><td class="xl70" style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: windowtext; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; width: 48pt; background-color: rgb(240, 240, 223);" width="64">73%</td><td class="xl68" style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: windowtext; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; width: 48pt; background-color: rgb(153, 255, 153);" width="64">2.7</td><td class="xl70" style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: windowtext; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; width: 48pt; background-color: rgb(240, 240, 223);" width="64">72%</td><td class="xl69" style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: windowtext; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; width: 48pt; background-color: rgb(240, 240, 223);" width="64">1.9</td><td class="xl69" style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: windowtext; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; width: 48pt; background-color: rgb(240, 240, 223);" width="64">0.7</td></tr><tr style="height: 15pt;" height="20"><td style="border: medium none rgb(240, 240, 240); height: 15pt; background-color: transparent;" align="right" height="20">3</td><td class="xl69" style="border-style: none solid solid; border-color: windowtext; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt; width: 48pt; background-color: rgb(240, 240, 223);" width="64">75</td><td class="xl69" style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: windowtext; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; width: 48pt; background-color: rgb(240, 240, 223);" width="64">512</td><td class="xl69" style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: windowtext; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; width: 48pt; background-color: rgb(240, 240, 223);" width="64">8</td><td class="xl69" style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: windowtext; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; width: 48pt; background-color: rgb(240, 240, 223);" width="64">2.4</td><td class="xl69" style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: windowtext; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; width: 48pt; background-color: rgb(240, 240, 223);" width="64">0.528</td><td class="xl69" style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: windowtext; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; width: 48pt; background-color: rgb(240, 240, 223);" width="64">0.483</td><td class="xl69" style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: windowtext; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; width: 48pt; background-color: rgb(240, 240, 223);" width="64">1</td><td class="xl70" style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: windowtext; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; width: 48pt; background-color: rgb(240, 240, 223);" width="64">80%</td><td class="xl68" style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: windowtext; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; width: 48pt; background-color: rgb(153, 255, 153);" width="64">3.7</td><td class="xl70" style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: windowtext; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; width: 48pt; background-color: rgb(240, 240, 223);" width="64">78%</td><td class="xl69" style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: windowtext; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; width: 48pt; background-color: rgb(240, 240, 223);" width="64">1.8</td><td class="xl69" style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: windowtext; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; width: 48pt; background-color: rgb(240, 240, 223);" width="64">0.5</td></tr><tr style="height: 15pt;" height="20"><td style="border: medium none rgb(240, 240, 240); height: 15pt; background-color: transparent;" align="right" height="20">4</td><td class="xl66" style="border-style: none solid solid; border-color: windowtext; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt; width: 48pt; background-color: white;" width="64">61</td><td class="xl66" style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: windowtext; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; width: 48pt; background-color: white;" width="64">417</td><td class="xl66" style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: windowtext; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; width: 48pt; background-color: white;" width="64">-45</td><td class="xl66" style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: windowtext; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; width: 48pt; background-color: white;" width="64">1.4</td><td class="xl66" style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: windowtext; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; width: 48pt; background-color: white;" width="64">0.4</td><td class="xl66" style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: windowtext; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; width: 48pt; background-color: white;" width="64">0.298</td><td class="xl66" style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: windowtext; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; width: 48pt; background-color: white;" width="64">0.6</td><td class="xl67" style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: windowtext; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; width: 48pt; background-color: white;" width="64">73%</td><td class="xl68" style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: windowtext; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; width: 48pt; background-color: rgb(153, 255, 153);" width="64">1.8</td><td class="xl67" style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: windowtext; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; width: 48pt; background-color: white;" width="64">82%</td><td class="xl66" style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: windowtext; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; width: 48pt; background-color: white;" width="64">1.7</td><td class="xl66" style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: windowtext; border-width: medium 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; width: 48pt; background-color: white;" width="64">0.6</td></tr></tbody></table>


I would love to see a chart from this year, I imagine it is much more drastic

You have imagined wrong.

SI charts all stats by quarter and Troy Murphy's PPQ are indeed the lowest in the 4th, but the disparity is not nearly as pronounced as the previous chart you're showing (which was from 2007-08) and obviously dealing with a smaller sample size since Troy has only played in 26 games this year so far compared to 60+ in that other chart.

This year, he has scored 3.2 points per 4th quarter vs. 4.2 points per 1st quarter.

SI unfortunately doesn't chart FGA per quarter but we know he must be shooting a little less late because his FG% and 3P% are off the charts good by any metric during the 4th yet his points are slightly lower.

So, thus far this year, he has, in similar minutes, shot less but with much more accuracy in the 4th quarter than at any other point in the game while producing slightly fewer points. And we should all note that 54.3% shooting at any point is simply stellar for someone who primarily takes jumpshots.

(It's also notable that he rebounds much better in the 1st quarter than at any other point in the game by a large margin. Can't really read anything into this without analyzing leaguewide numbers. It's possible that their are just a lot more missed shots at the beginning of games some everyone naturally has more boards early in the game or that people are the least tired early and that helps in getting rebounds. No way to tell what that means really.)

SI has a boatload of more split stat breakdowns for Troy and everyone.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/3524/splits.html

http://www.eightpointsnineseconds.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Troy_Murphy_QuarterSplits2009.jpg

Green = Quarter he has the highest total
Red = Quarter he has the lowest total

PaceBalls
01-10-2010, 02:52 AM
Wow.. Thanks Jay, I must say I am quite surprised by the numbers, but the stats don't lie. 54% in the 4th is damn good, so is 45% from the 3.

sportfireman
01-10-2010, 12:03 PM
if a.j. continues to play like he did against minnie...........he would be because of his ability to break down the defense and hit the open man so they can hopefully hit the open shot. thus making everyone else better..........and if he can do this effectively he can be just as if not more important to our offense than danny.

p.s. before anyone says anything about his assist total in that game.......i watched the game and i saw at least 3-4 passes he made to give guys wide open shots and they missed them.

BlueNGold
01-10-2010, 02:02 PM
Nice post Jay. I am surprised his FG% is that good in the 4th. However, his rebounds and overall production indicate that he's getting out-huscled for boards and shut down offensively as the game moves toward "winning time".

Considering his minutes are highest in the 4th, that indicates he is accomplishing less in the 4th quarter than any other quarter....not exactly a shining example of a guy who helps you win games when the chips are down.

Edit: btw, I understand that lower rebounds may be due to the flow of the game or other factors...but dropping from 3.2 to 2.2 is over a 30% drop. I would be surprised if that was completely due to less opportunities...but I don't know that.

Naptown_Seth
01-10-2010, 02:53 PM
I did my own ratings where I tried to come up with 5-6 categories on each side of the ball, and weighted their value (so On ball Defense is very important but steals or fouling aren't as important). Totally subjective I'll admit, but then everything in the thread is anyway. :D

I have Hibbert as #2, but I also have Rush as #3 and Price as #4.

However on offense only I had Roy as #1, Price as #2 and Troy as #3. Price fared well with passing, the screen/PnR/spacing game, and TOs. Roy fared well for FGA/shot selection (tied them together, Troy was 2nd in that category), pretty good in OReb, very good in passing, very good in FTAs (draws them and makes them, Tyler clearly first there). Troy was good in FGA/seletion and 3P shooting, but slightly low in all the other categories (passing, FTA, TOs, OReb, PnR/spacing)


For the record I had Tyler as slightly above McBob on offense, but below him on defense. I had Granger pretty far down the list on offense due to the 3PA level, passing, Oreb, TOs and spacing game. If he had his offense balanced more he'd rate much higher, but was still the overall #1 anyway.

My lowest offensive guys were Solo, Ford and then Dahntay. McBob and Rush came right after them.


The main thing I ended up with is that I didn't rate any of the offensive players as really strong, but I did have Granger, Rush, Dahntay and McBob as strong defenders, and Roy, Tyler and Solo as pretty good.

I rate DJones highest in the on-ball and awareness categories, but he's not really a factor at the rim or on DEF rebounds. Plus he doesn't really get a ton of steals and fouls at a high'ish rate.

ksuttonjr76
01-10-2010, 04:04 PM
Roy Hibbert when JOS remembers that he's on the team.

JayRedd
01-10-2010, 04:15 PM
However, his rebounds and overall production indicate that he's getting out-huscled for boards and shut down offensively as the game moves toward "winning time".

Your "out-huscled" comments seems like a leap in logic to me, but OK.

And I'm not sure making shots with much more regularity can be construed as being "shut down" offensively.

In scoring 1 fewer point in the 4th than he does in the 1st (and only 0.3 points and 0.7 points less than he scores in the 3rd and 1st quarters, respectively), all that likely means is that he is attempting approximately 1 fewer shot in the 4th than in the 1st. There are dozens of ways to explain why that might be, but I don't think having 1 fewer FGA in a quarter could reasonably be described as being "shut down."

The fact that he scores his most points in the 1st on his worst FG% likely can be best described as him "taking a lot of shots early." Whether that is just his natural inclination or whether perhaps JO'B designs a play or two early to try to get him a three or two to spread the floor for the rest of the game is not something I think any of us can be sure.

In sum, all we honestly deduce from this data is that he takes more shots early than he does late and he is much more efficient late than he is early.

You can "indicate" all you want, but the data does not indicate anything about hustling.

JayRedd
01-10-2010, 04:21 PM
Considering his minutes are highest in the 4th, that indicates he is accomplishing less in the 4th quarter than any other quarter....not exactly a shining example of a guy who helps you win games when the chips are down.

Also, the minute-per-quarter differentials are not particularly significant mathematically. His "higher minutes" in the 4th is the difference of 36 seconds from the 2nd quarter and 6 seconds from the 1st quarter.

36 seconds is probably one extra possession. So you really shouldn't expect him to be accomplishing a ton more in 36 more seconds.

McKeyFan
01-10-2010, 04:25 PM
Also, the minute-per-quarter differentials are not particularly significant mathematically. His "higher minutes" in the 4th is the difference of 36 seconds from the 2nd quarter and 6 seconds from the 1st quarter.

36 seconds is probably one extra possession. So you really shouldn't expect him to be accomplishing a ton more in 36 more seconds.

The point of this thread is not whether he's better offensively in the first or fourth. It's that he's bad defensively in both.

And he's not "our second best player." Far from it.

JayRedd
01-10-2010, 04:26 PM
Sorry to disrupt the point of the thread with information.

Naptown_Seth
01-10-2010, 04:31 PM
Since I had Price rated so high I decided to double check my opinion. I pulled the JAN per48 split to get a sense of recent play.

Price leads the team in assists at 10.0, Watson is at 9.4 and then Hibbert at 6.1, which backs my high rating on their passing.

Scoring - Granger leads but Price is 2nd at 29.5 and Roy is 3rd at 28.3.

eFG% for JAN - Troy is at 75% (whoa, lotta 3 makes), Josh is 2nd at 63% (in line with a PF that sometimes hits a 3, all PFs tend to run 55% or more), and then Price is at 55%. Then you've got Hibbert at 49% and Rush at 48% (and Diener at 50% but that's really limited PT).

So in fact Roy and Price are basically the 2 best offensive players the team has right now, not only scoring well like Troy but also as big playmakers for others to work off of.

BTW, the worst AST per48 for JAN? Solo, Josh (both under 2.0) and then Danny and Troy at 2.1. Think about their usage level and how much they touch the ball. Think about all the 3PA they take. And they are getting ONE assist every 24 minutes? Ugh.

Danny and Watson are both rocking 41% eFG for last on the team. Also ugh.

Naptown_Seth
01-10-2010, 04:34 PM
Sorry to disrupt the point of the thread with information.
:laugh:

Can't we all just get along. Especially people that probably don't really disagree on the situation very much.

Troy is without a doubt a great shooting weapon. That's the full extent of his serious offensive contributions. Add in his defensive penalty and it kills his chance at "2nd best".

JohnnyBGoode
01-10-2010, 04:35 PM
Sorry to disrupt the point of the thread with information.

It's funny how that works. Facts I mean. I have the feeling that nothing will convince BG or Mckey that they are wrong about Troy. Troy is evil and nothing will change their minds.

JohnnyBGoode
01-10-2010, 04:36 PM
:laugh:

Can't we all just get along. Especially people that probably don't really disagree on the situation very much.

Troy is without a doubt a great shooting weapon. That's the full extent of his serious offensive contributions. Add in his defensive penalty and it kills his chance at "2nd best".

Just your opinion, doesn't make it true.

BlueNGold
01-10-2010, 05:18 PM
Also, the minute-per-quarter differentials are not particularly significant mathematically. His "higher minutes" in the 4th is the difference of 36 seconds from the 2nd quarter and 6 seconds from the 1st quarter.

36 seconds is probably one extra possession. So you really shouldn't expect him to be accomplishing a ton more in 36 more seconds.

Obviously you have posted some interesting numbers. They certainly make the case against him weaker...particularly compared to the entire year stats I posted. However, more time shouldn't translate to a 30% drop in boards and 25% drop in points. 1 point and 1 more board on a regular basis over the course of 8 minutes is not insignificant.

As a comparison (maybe a bit unfair), here are Granger's quarterly stats for 07/08:

<TABLE style="WIDTH: 522pt; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=692 border=0><COLGROUP><COL style="WIDTH: 27pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 1316" width=36><COL style="WIDTH: 32pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 1536" width=42><COL style="WIDTH: 29pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 1426" width=39><COL style="WIDTH: 32pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 1536" width=42><COL style="WIDTH: 35pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 1682" width=46><COL style="WIDTH: 38pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 1828" width=50><COL style="WIDTH: 39pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 1901" width=52><COL style="WIDTH: 36pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 1755" width=48><COL style="WIDTH: 32pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 1572" span=2 width=43><COL style="WIDTH: 40pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 1938" width=53><COL style="WIDTH: 26pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 1243" width=34><COL style="WIDTH: 30pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 1462" width=40><COL style="WIDTH: 32pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 1536" width=42><COL style="WIDTH: 31pt; mso-width-source: userset; mso-width-alt: 1499" span=2 width=41><TBODY><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD class=xl68 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 27pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; HEIGHT: 15pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #33cc33" width=36 height=20>Gm (http://www.82games.com/QTR1S1.HTM)</TD><TD class=xl68 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #33cc33" width=42>Min (http://www.82games.com/QTR1S2.HTM)</TD><TD class=xl68 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 29pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #33cc33" width=39>+/- (http://www.82games.com/QTR1S3.HTM)</TD><TD class=xl68 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #33cc33" width=42>Fga (http://www.82games.com/QTR1S5.HTM)</TD><TD class=xl68 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 35pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #33cc33" width=46>Fg% (http://www.82games.com/QTR1S6.HTM)</TD><TD class=xl68 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #33cc33" width=50>3pA (http://www.82games.com/QTR1S7.HTM)</TD><TD class=xl68 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 39pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #33cc33" width=52>3p% (http://www.82games.com/QTR1S8.HTM)</TD><TD class=xl68 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 36pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #33cc33" width=48>Fta (http://www.82games.com/QTR1S9.HTM)</TD><TD class=xl68 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #33cc33" width=43>Ft% (http://www.82games.com/QTR1S10.HTM)</TD><TD class=xl69 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffcc00" width=43>Pts (http://www.82games.com/QTR1S11.HTM)</TD><TD class=xl68 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 40pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #33cc33" width=53>Ast'd (http://www.82games.com/QTR1S12.HTM)</TD><TD class=xl68 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 26pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #33cc33" width=34>Reb (http://www.82games.com/QTR1S13.HTM)</TD><TD class=xl68 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #33cc33" width=40>Ast (http://www.82games.com/QTR1S14.HTM)</TD><TD class=xl68 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #33cc33" width=42>T/o (http://www.82games.com/QTR1S15.HTM)</TD><TD class=xl68 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 31pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #33cc33" width=41>Blk (http://www.82games.com/QTR1S16.HTM)</TD><TD class=xl68 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 31pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #33cc33" width=41>Stl (http://www.82games.com/QTR1S17.HTM)</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD class=xl65 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 27pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; HEIGHT: 15pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=36 height=20>80</TD><TD class=xl65 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=42>789</TD><TD class=xl65 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 29pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=39>-10</TD><TD class=xl65 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=42>4.4</TD><TD class=xl65 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 35pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=46>0.437</TD><TD class=xl65 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=50>1.3</TD><TD class=xl65 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 39pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=52>0.346</TD><TD class=xl65 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 36pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=48>0.9</TD><TD class=xl66 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=43>88%</TD><TD class=xl67 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #99ff99" width=43>5.1</TD><TD class=xl66 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 40pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=53>62%</TD><TD class=xl65 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 26pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=34>1.5</TD><TD class=xl65 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=40>0.8</TD><TD class=xl65 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=42>0.4</TD><TD class=xl65 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 31pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=41>0.3</TD><TD class=xl65 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 31pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=41>0.3</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD class=xl70 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 27pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; HEIGHT: 15pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=36 height=20>79</TD><TD class=xl70 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=42>642</TD><TD class=xl70 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 29pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=39>-40</TD><TD class=xl70 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=42>3.3</TD><TD class=xl70 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 35pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=46>0.439</TD><TD class=xl70 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=50>1</TD><TD class=xl70 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 39pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=52>0.329</TD><TD class=xl70 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 36pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=48>1.2</TD><TD class=xl71 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=43>81%</TD><TD class=xl70 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=43>4.2</TD><TD class=xl71 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 40pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=53>59%</TD><TD class=xl70 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 26pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=34>1.3</TD><TD class=xl70 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40>0.5</TD><TD class=xl70 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=42>0.6</TD><TD class=xl70 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 31pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=41>0.2</TD><TD class=xl70 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 31pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=41>0.3</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD class=xl70 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 27pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; HEIGHT: 15pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=36 height=20>80</TD><TD class=xl70 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=42>746</TD><TD class=xl70 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 29pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=39>-83</TD><TD class=xl70 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=42>3.9</TD><TD class=xl70 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 35pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=46>0.459</TD><TD class=xl70 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=50>1.4</TD><TD class=xl70 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 39pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=52>0.441</TD><TD class=xl70 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 36pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=48>1.1</TD><TD class=xl71 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=43>88%</TD><TD class=xl70 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=43>5.2</TD><TD class=xl71 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 40pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=53>57%</TD><TD class=xl70 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 26pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=34>1.6</TD><TD class=xl70 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=40>0.4</TD><TD class=xl70 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=42>0.8</TD><TD class=xl70 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 31pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=41>0.2</TD><TD class=xl70 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 31pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white" width=41>0.3</TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 15pt" height=20><TD class=xl65 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 27pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; HEIGHT: 15pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=36 height=20>77</TD><TD class=xl65 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=42>682</TD><TD class=xl65 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 29pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=39>-17</TD><TD class=xl65 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=42>3.5</TD><TD class=xl65 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 35pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=46>0.446</TD><TD class=xl65 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 38pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=50>1.6</TD><TD class=xl65 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 39pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=52>0.467</TD><TD class=xl65 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 36pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=48>1.6</TD><TD class=xl66 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=43>83%</TD><TD class=xl65 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=43>5.2</TD><TD class=xl66 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 40pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=53>69%</TD><TD class=xl65 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 26pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=34>1.7</TD><TD class=xl65 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 30pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=40>0.4</TD><TD class=xl65 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 32pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=42>0.4</TD><TD class=xl65 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 31pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=41>0.4</TD><TD class=xl65 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #f0f0f0; BORDER-TOP: #f0f0f0; BORDER-LEFT: #f0f0f0; WIDTH: 31pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #f0f0f0; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f0f0df" width=41>0.3</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Unlike Murphy, his production AND his effectiveness rose pretty much across the board in the second half and into the 4th quarter. That includes boards which are apparently not that difficult for him to increase down the stretch...so I guess I don't buy the explanation that there are less boards to be had down the stretch. I just don't think Troy is good enough to raise his level of play down the stretch.

cordobes
01-10-2010, 05:22 PM
When Dunleavy is in-form it's clearly him.

BlueNGold
01-10-2010, 05:50 PM
It's funny how that works. Facts I mean. I have the feeling that nothing will convince BG or Mckey that they are wrong about Troy. Troy is evil and nothing will change their minds.

None of these are facts. They are stats...which we all know lie.

You are right, however, that I will go to my grave claiming Troy helps you lose games.

...and Troy is not evil. JayRedd is though for supporting him...;).

McKeyFan
01-10-2010, 06:32 PM
Sorry to disrupt the point of the thread with information.

I guess I was hoping to hear whether you still think Murph is our third best player.

http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?p=916075#post916075

post 48

JayRedd
01-10-2010, 06:59 PM
I honestly wouldn't use the word "best" to describe the play of any player on this roster so far this year. No one has even been good, let alone "best."

But, yeah, Troy has easily been one of the few "not worst" players for the Pacers so far this year. Danny, Roy and Dunleavy have all been better at times, but he has been the only one who has (relatively) done anything consistently well (shoot and rebound) where as no one outside of perhaps a playing-badly-Granger has done anything well for more than 10 games.

His career-high 50% shooting has been one of the few bright spots this year.

People can complain all they want about rotations and strategy and whatever the coach is doing that makes the other players not play well. But the fact is that no one else has actually produced at all offensively (aside from Roy and Granger very inconsistently) this year and we don't really have any impact defensive players, so it's not like there are a bunch of Bruce Bowens out here who are changing the games in ways that don't show up at all in the stat sheet. Dahntay could, but he has focused too much on offense for some reason. Roy is passable and changes some shots, but is really slow and gets abused a lot and blows assignments constantly. And Rush is really, really sloppy on D. Weak fighting through screens, poor recognition/rotation at times and closes out very inconsistently.

Disclaimer: I don't like Troy Murphy's game at all and wish he never became a Pacer.

ChicagoJ
01-11-2010, 10:24 PM
Can't believe the Dahntay Jones votes that occurred early in this thread.

If he's one of your three-best players, you are a very, very, very bad team.

He's making a tad more than the vet minimum and had no upside/ growth potential. I'll take my chances that right now Granger, Hibbert, Rush, Hansborough and even Price are better than he is, and those guys have room to grow. Further, Dunleavy - even at only 65%/70% is better than he. With Murphy its a ying-yang thing. Murphy has great offensive and rebounding stats but offers nothing else. Dahntay offers excellent defense on players that are smaller than he is but little else. I'll let those two plus Luther Head fight over seventh/eighth/ninth man on the list.

ChicagoJ
01-11-2010, 10:28 PM
If he's one of your three-best players, you are a very, very, very bad team.

Forgot to finish my thought. I apologize for the double-post...

And from the looks of things, we are a very, very bad team. But that's not a reason to get excited about Dahntay.

judicata
01-11-2010, 10:37 PM
Jones was easily the second best player on the team through the first ten games. He's dropped off the map since then, for sure.

ChicagoJ
01-11-2010, 10:39 PM
Jones was easily the second best player on the team through the first ten games. He's dropped off the map since then, for sure.

And he played way over his head. Now that we're back to reality...

McKeyFan
01-12-2010, 10:54 AM
And he played way over his head. Now that we're back to reality...

I would say he led a squad with a defensive mindset to five wins in a row. Then he was not allowed to continue that winning experiment.

Murphy returned from injury.

JOB makes his choice: Dahntay like ball or Murphy like ball. In my opinion, the former notched up several victories, the latter only a few.

I don't think Dahntay ball would take us to the promised land, but I think .500 is realistic. I also think it is basketball worthy of Indiana's character and heritage. This other style of ball is demeaning.