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View Full Version : Washington Wizards' Gilbert Arenas suspended indefinitely [ESPN]



RoboHicks
01-06-2010, 04:10 PM
Gilbert Arenas has been suspended indefinitely.

More... (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4802267&campaign=rss&source=NBAHeadlines)

Shade
01-06-2010, 04:12 PM
Wow.

Is this unprecedented?

pristinecollector
01-06-2010, 06:31 PM
GREAT NEWS! I'm VERY happy to see this announcment. The NBA needs to get the thug gangsta image out of the NBA. Great job!

ksuttonjr76
01-06-2010, 06:32 PM
Washington is probably thrilled too. Now, they have ever reason to void his contract.

cinotimz
01-06-2010, 06:39 PM
Wow.

Is this unprecedented?

Absolu....

Oh wait.

Jermaine O'neal, Stephen Jackson, Ron Artest.

Nevermind.:D

Trader Joe
01-06-2010, 06:40 PM
He'll get at least the rest of this season off...

Trophy
01-06-2010, 06:43 PM
He'll get at least the rest of this season off...

He's someone that gets a lot of time off from work for the past 2 or 3 years now.

Chewy
01-06-2010, 06:48 PM
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/9690/gilbertarenas0110580.jpg

cdash
01-06-2010, 06:51 PM
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/9690/gilbertarenas0110580.jpg

That is the kicker right there. Don't **** with David Stern. You will wake up with the fishes.

Lord Helmet
01-06-2010, 06:54 PM
His teammates seem to think it's funny. Suspend the entire team, make them sign Marcus Haislip, John Edwards, and Stanko!

QuickRelease
01-06-2010, 06:57 PM
GREAT NEWS! I'm VERY happy to see this announcment. The NBA needs to get the thug gangsta image out of the NBA. Great job!

:rolleyes:

cdash
01-06-2010, 06:59 PM
His teammates seem to think it's funny. Suspend the entire team, make them sign Marcus Haislip, John Edwards, and Stanko!

Umm, I wouldn't relinquish Stanko's rights without an unprotected first round pick. He is the future! :dance:

the jaddler
01-06-2010, 07:05 PM
well many of the people in this country that dont follow the nba or sports for this matter have heard about this thug! And I will tell you those I heard talking about this incident have said one thing and one thing only; welp typical NBA.....just a bunch of thug gangsters trying to make big money legaly.

Applause to him being suspended!!!!!!

Its time that teams and the NBA stop putting up this thug like and crimanal behavior!!!!

BlueNGold
01-06-2010, 07:14 PM
It will be interesting to see how this is dealt with compared to all the Pacer incidents (e.g. actually firing shots in the case of SJax). Comparatively, Agent Zero should get a slap on the wrist.

Haggard
01-06-2010, 07:20 PM
It will be interesting to see how this is dealt with compared to all the Pacer incidents (e.g. actually firing shots in the case of SJax). Comparatively, Agent Zero should get a slap on the wrist.

good point, though Stern may come down hard on Gilby as it seems he didn't learn from other peoples mistakes... Then again, what Jax did was away from the game, Gilbert's was in the locker room.

Taterhead
01-06-2010, 07:28 PM
I think Stern has done nothing but over react to these things and compound these problems. Gilbert Arenas is not a thug. I have seen thugs in my lifetime and trust me he is not a thug. So why do you portray the image, onto your own players, as being a thug for having a gun? It is perfectly legal in this country to own guns, and it is not immoral to have one, Go watch the news and you'll see plenty of reason to buy one yourself. Now put millions of dollars in your bank account and a nice car under your butt and see if the need for protection doesn't increase.

A man with a gun is not a thug. He didn't attack anyone, he didn't even threaten anyone, unless they have some evidence they haven't released yet.

cdash
01-06-2010, 07:39 PM
Is it weird that I still like Gilbert Arenas?

Stryder
01-06-2010, 07:47 PM
I think Stern has done nothing but over react to these things and compound these problems. Gilbert Arenas is not a thug. I have seen thugs in my lifetime and trust me he is not a thug. So why do you portray the image, onto your own players, as being a thug for having a gun? It is perfectly legal in this country to own guns, and it is not immoral to have one, Go watch the news and you'll see plenty of reason to buy one yourself. Now put millions of dollars in your bank account and a nice car under your butt and see if the need for protection doesn't increase.

A man with a gun is not a thug. He didn't attack anyone, he didn't even threaten anyone, unless they have some evidence they haven't released yet.

Um. You realize he broke the law by having a gun in D.C.? With that simple fact, your argument is invalid.

the jaddler
01-06-2010, 07:55 PM
Um. You realize he broke the law by having a gun in D.C.? With that simple fact, your argument is invalid.

Thank you....therefore making him a thug...and they were loaded guns in the locker room!!!!!! And any honest, respectful gun onwer knows this to be reckless and the reason why there are such strick laws and the reason to be why some people think all guns should be ban every where!!!!

cinotimz
01-06-2010, 07:58 PM
I think Stern has done nothing but over react to these things and compound these problems. Gilbert Arenas is not a thug. I have seen thugs in my lifetime and trust me he is not a thug. So why do you portray the image, onto your own players, as being a thug for having a gun? It is perfectly legal in this country to own guns, and it is not immoral to have one, Go watch the news and you'll see plenty of reason to buy one yourself. Now put millions of dollars in your bank account and a nice car under your butt and see if the need for protection doesn't increase.

A man with a gun is not a thug. He didn't attack anyone, he didn't even threaten anyone, unless they have some evidence they haven't released yet.

This isnt about the right to own a gun. And noone has said it is immoral to own one. And Stern hasnt said it makes him a thug and thugs arent allowed.

However, its only legal to own certain firearms with proper documentation, permits and having gone thru a process.

But past that, he took these guns to his place of employment where doing such is strictly forbidden. The NBA doesnt say players cant own guns. If doing so they must simply abide by the laws of the land-which apparently Gil didnt do. But thats not why he was suspended. He was suspended because players are not permitted to bring them to the arenas-and he did. And thats an admitted fact.

You think if your place of employment has a similar condition of employment and you violate such by bringing a firearm anyway that their wont be serious consequences?

If so, then I think you might be in for a big surprise.

Chewy
01-06-2010, 07:58 PM
Thank you....therefore making him a thug...and they were loaded guns in the locker room!!!!!! And any honest, respectful gun onwer knows this to be reckless and the reason why there are such strick laws and the reason to be why some people think all guns should be ban every where!!!!

They weren't loaded.

It is very simple NBA policy prohibits bringing guns to an NBA facility, he broke it and admitted it.

d_c
01-06-2010, 08:00 PM
See, this is where Latrell Sprewell really was ahead of the game.

Instead of bringing a gun, he once threatened a teammate (Jerome Kersey) with a 2x4. Very innovative. Gilbert could've learned.

And since there was no language in the CBA about choking coaches, well that kept anyone from voiding his contract.

cinotimz
01-06-2010, 08:10 PM
This could very well be the most expensive gun violation of all time.

Im guessing this could end up costing Gil around 50 million. Its pretty obvious this is gonna go in a direction where his contract is voided. Considering hes owed 80 million over the next 4 years plus a significant chunk this year, while I have no doubts someone will pick him up and sign him to a lucrative deal it will likely be in the 8-10 million a year range at best compared to the 20 million a year hes scheduled to be making.

Now while its certainly not to the level of what Tiger is going to pay for his philandering, it aint chump change either.

vnzla81
01-06-2010, 08:21 PM
This could very well be the most expensive gun violation of all time.

Im guessing this could end up costing Gil around 50 million. Its pretty obvious this is gonna go in a direction where his contract is voided. Considering hes owed 80 million over the next 4 years plus a significant chunk this year, while I have no doubts someone will pick him up and sign him to a lucrative deal it will likely be in the 8-10 million a year range at best compared to the 20 million a year hes scheduled to be making.

Now while its certainly not to the level of what Tiger is going to pay for his philandering, it aint chump change either.

If nothing happen to Jackson, Quis and Tinsley what makes you think that the NBA or the Wizards are going to be able to void his contract? I am not defending this stupid guy, but he did not shoot anybody and his gun was not even loaded. He should get suspended for the rest of the year for stupidity, but unless he goes to jail nothing more is going to happen to him.

cinotimz
01-06-2010, 08:43 PM
If nothing happen to Jackson, Quis and Tinsley what makes you think that the NBA or the Wizards are going to be able to void his contract? I am not defending this stupid guy, but he did not shoot anybody and his gun was not even loaded. He should get suspended for the rest of the year for stupidity, but unless he goes to jail nothing more is going to happen to him.

Some of you dont seem to grasp the difference between the Jackson, Tinsley, and Quis incidents with the Arenas situation.

With the ex-pacers cases it was on their own time doing their own thing.

Arenas did what he did at his place of employment where such is strictly forbidden.

Wherever one works, there is a code of conduct/discipline that must be followed. These relate to what happens while at work-in most cases. And for different transgressions there are different penalties. You go awol for a week, you might get suspended or terminated-dependent on the company policy. You sleep on the job, you may get suspended or terminated-dependent on the company policy. Now in most cases, there wont be a clause that says if you go out at night after work and get in a barfight that you will be suspended or terminated. Because its not job related.

Arenas situation is on-the-job. Not on his own personal time like Jackson, Tinsley, and Quis. And there are very strict guidelines regarding firearms and NBA arenas for NBA players.

And he violated such.

Hes got big problems. Expensive problems. They almost certainly will go after his contract. Especially since the Wiz are dying to get out of it anyway. And now it appears he gave them the perfect avenue. Far easier than trading his happy a$$.

Lance George
01-06-2010, 08:43 PM
If the Wizard's void his contract, Gilbert may be another addition to the star-studded 2010 free agent class. It would be interesting to see what kind of a deal he could get.

ksuttonjr76
01-06-2010, 09:21 PM
If the Wizard's void his contract, Gilbert may be another addition to the star-studded 2010 free agent class. It would be interesting to see what kind of a deal he could get.

If he's doesn't go to prison first.

http://www.wusa9.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=95539&catid=187

Depending on the charge and nature of the incident, he could be facing up to 10 years in prison.

Dr. Awesome
01-06-2010, 09:23 PM
If he's doesn't go to prison first.

http://www.wusa9.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=95539&catid=187

Depending on the charge and nature of the incident, he could be facing up to 10 years in prison.

Please, he is an athlete, worst case scenario is a few hours of community service.

ksuttonjr76
01-06-2010, 09:25 PM
Please, he is an athlete, worst case scenario is a few hours of community service.

Johnny Cochran is dead....sorry, I couldn't help it.

MyFavMartin
01-06-2010, 09:30 PM
If he's doesn't go to prison first.

http://www.wusa9.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=95539&catid=187

Depending on the charge and nature of the incident, he could be facing up to 10 years in prison.

4 guns x 5 years per gun = 20 years

Taterhead
01-06-2010, 09:35 PM
This isnt about the right to own a gun. And noone has said it is immoral to own one. And Stern hasnt said it makes him a thug and thugs arent allowed.

However, its only legal to own certain firearms with proper documentation, permits and having gone thru a process.

But past that, he took these guns to his place of employment where doing such is strictly forbidden. The NBA doesnt say players cant own guns. If doing so they must simply abide by the laws of the land-which apparently Gil didnt do. But thats not why he was suspended. He was suspended because players are not permitted to bring them to the arenas-and he did. And thats an admitted fact.

You think if your place of employment has a similar condition of employment and you violate such by bringing a firearm anyway that their wont be serious consequences?

If so, then I think you might be in for a big surprise.

Not really what I mean. Gilbert should and will be punished, I am talking about the thug label he is plastered with just for having a gun. Lets just save the word for where it applies, that's all. It takes a bad situation over the top into hysteria, IMO.


Um. You realize he broke the law by having a gun in D.C.? With that simple fact, your argument is invalid.

So that makes you a thug? Just breaking the law? You missed my point.

Thugs hurt other people.

MyFavMartin
01-06-2010, 09:42 PM
Proposed a trade involving Mike James and TJ Ford in the proposal thread section, but it's interesting to consider whether Washington will try to bring attention back to the team by addressing their new hole at PG.

Rafer Alston? Prolly not as he says he wants to play for a contender.

http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=49689

Cactus Jax
01-06-2010, 09:49 PM
Got a feeling that the eventual suspension/jail time Arenas is going to have to deal with is going to make the brawl suspensions look like slaps on the wrist. Gilbert's happy go lucky sort of attitude is what's really killing him right now, I could see a 2 year (this season and next season) suspension, and I'm sure the Wizards are salivating over the chance of being able to buy out of his contract.

vapacersfan
01-06-2010, 11:19 PM
Thank you....therefore making him a thug...and they were loaded guns in the locker room!!!!!! And any honest, respectful gun onwer knows this to be reckless and the reason why there are such strick laws and the reason to be why some people think all guns should be ban every where!!!!

I think Gilbert is a IDIOT for having guns in the District.

But to clarify, everything I have read said he had the guns in one locker and no ammunition with the guns (I have read they were in another locker and that they were home, which one is accurate I do not know)

As I said in another thread, Gilbert made a very, very, stupid decision. He did not help himself at all by joking about it while Stern was giving him "mercy" by letting the legal system play out.

From my POV he should have been suspended as soon as it was announced he had guns in the District. He has been here long enough to know that is illegal.

vapacersfan
01-06-2010, 11:21 PM
If nothing happen to Jackson, Quis and Tinsley what makes you think that the NBA or the Wizards are going to be able to void his contract? I am not defending this stupid guy, but he did not shoot anybody and his gun was not even loaded. He should get suspended for the rest of the year for stupidity, but unless he goes to jail nothing more is going to happen to him.

I personally am torn on if he should get jail time, but everyone back home is saying it looks like he may in fact up getting some kind of jail time. The District has very strict gun laws. Whether they cut Gilbert a break or not is to be seen.....

heywoode
01-06-2010, 11:50 PM
Please, he is an athlete, worst case scenario is a few hours of community service.


Yeah, just like how Plaxico slid right out of his problems too...it's so good to be a star athlete sometimes!

Seriously, I think nowadays the celebrity status may actually be more of a hindrance than a help. It makes the story far more publicized, and as such, may force a local prosecutor to, at the very least, follow the letter of the law with no special treatment, or in some cases, throw the book at them to show the public that the celebrity in question unequivocally got NO special treatment.

I think he should be treated the way anyone else who did what he did would be treated. That is all.

graphic-er
01-07-2010, 12:06 AM
I'd expect Pat Riley and Heat to after him next year if his contract is voided. They'd love to have him and Wade paired up.

Mr. Sobchak
01-07-2010, 01:07 AM
The word thug gets thrown around way too loosely here IMO...

Bball
01-07-2010, 03:53 AM
Did he not pull the gun on a teammate? Everyone keeps saying he didn't threaten anyone so has that part proven to be untrue? I'm not following this that closely but I'd hate to see that detail either lost in the shuffle or else reported wrongly in the first place.

Anthem
01-07-2010, 08:06 AM
Did he not pull the gun on a teammate?
Apparently not. Hard to say for sure.

Lance George
01-07-2010, 08:13 AM
Crittenton then drew his weapon, loaded it and chambered a round, the witnesses said.

Neither witness said the gun was ever pointed at Arenas, but both said Crittenton began singing as he held the gun.

Arenas began laughing, the witnesses said, telling Crittenton, “Look at that little shiny gun,” as two other players slowly retreated to the training room.

Arenas eventually followed. By the time the players came back out, Crittenton was gone.

Looks like Mr. Crittenton's NBA career may be over. It's shame, he had the skill and physical gifts to actually be a good player.

Putnam
01-07-2010, 08:20 AM
From an SI.com column



Arenas has a lot in common with Ron Artest, who never seemed to understand why he was penalized so severely for inciting the 2004 Detroit brawl. When Arenas pointed his fingers and fired pantomime bullets at teammates in the pregame huddle Tuesday before Washington's victory at Philadelphia, he was pointing a virtual gun at Stern's head. He was daring the commissioner to respond in kind.

Not smart.



Ian Thomsen, Inside the NBA
Posted: Wednesday January 6, 2010 6:43PM;
Updated: Wednesday January 6, 2010 8:56PM


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/ian_thomsen/01/06/arenas.suspension/index.html?eref=sircrc




.

Kuq_e_Zi91
01-07-2010, 08:40 AM
Did he not pull the gun on a teammate? Everyone keeps saying he didn't threaten anyone so has that part proven to be untrue? I'm not following this that closely but I'd hate to see that detail either lost in the shuffle or else reported wrongly in the first place.

Prior to the day of the incident, Crittenton said, "I'm going to shoot you in your left knee" which is the knee Gil had numerous operations on. So when the team returned to the locker room after their day off Gil placed four unloaded guns on a chair near Crittenton's locker with a note that read, "Pick one". But, reportedly, Crittenton pulled out his own gun, loaded it, and pointed it at Arenas.

count55
01-07-2010, 09:18 AM
Don't know if this is elsewhere in one of the threads, but:

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/11984/when-players-act-like-cowboys


TrueHoop reader Neil is currently reading the book on the American Basketball Association -- Terry Pluto's hilarious and amazing Loose Balls -- and has made me aware of a relevant chapter from the Pacers' history. Some edited excerpts:

Pacers trainer Dave Craig: "The more those teams won, the wilder some of the guys got. In the early 1970s, [Mel] Daniels, [Roger] Brown, [George] McGinnis and some of the other guys started to think they were cowboys. Mel was from Detroit, but when he went to college in New Mexico, he got interested in horses. ... Then they started dressing like cowboys, and I'm not just talking about hats and boots. They wore pistols and holsters like something out of 'Gunsmoke.'"

Pacer Billy Keller: "We had a valuables bag where we stored our rings, watches, wallets and that kind of stuff. When those guys got on the cowboys kick, Dave Craig would open that valuables bag and you'd see a couple of holsters and 6-shooters right in there with all the wallets and watches. A couple of times, I walked into the dressing room and there were Mel and Roger, pulling pistols on each other like it was the O.K. Corral. They never shot at each other, but they waved the guns around, sometimes even wrestled with each other on the floor."

Craig: "These guys were playing 'Cowboys' as if they were kids. They would hide behind corners, or climb on top of the locker, draw their guns and do the 'Bang, bang, you're dead' routine. Finally, I told [Pacers head coach] Slick [Leonard], 'We've got to get these guns out of the dressing room before somebody gets hurt.' Slick thought the whole thing was pretty funny and said, 'Nah, those guys are using guns that aren't loaded.' But one day, the guys were messing around and one of the guns went off. Thank God no one was hurt, but then we had to pass a rule that if you brought your gun to the game, you had to check it at the dressing room door."

Pacer Bob Netolicky: "People who didn't know us thought our locker room was a little spooky, what with all the guns hanging on the wall. I mean, you'd walk into our dressing room and run into Mel Daniels holding a .45 -- it makes you wonder."

Pacers legal counsel Dick Tinkham: "As owners of the team, we wondered if the guys were getting out of hand with all the cowboy stuff, but then we said, 'Hey, we're winning. The fans loved them. We don't care what they do as long as they play hard and don't shoot each other.'"


Neil, quite reasonably concludes "My how times have changed!" in noting the stern reactions to tales of much milder stuff from Gilbert Arenas and Javaris Crittenton.

There are a few differences. One is that the world sure feels like a more dangerous place now, doesn't it? In a world of Al Qaeda, weapns in crowded public places are less funny than ever. Also, the media is pervasive now -- these episodes are tough to hide from the public, which means even children are learning about them in more or less real time.

Maybe a bigger point is that the people who run the NBA now are far more business savvy, and factor in the dollars lost when fans grow fearful of players.

If you were in the NBA's offices in New York, and reading the passage above, you might also reasonably conclude: "The ABA, isn't that the league that went out of business?" The NBA does things differently, and in so doing have been a little heavy handed, but alsowholly successful.

the jaddler
01-07-2010, 09:36 AM
Don't know if this is elsewhere in one of the threads, but:

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/11984/when-players-act-like-cowboys

yeah but one those were differnt times...i dont know if the league had rules on not bringing guns in to the locker room or not....dont know if they had legal permits to carry said guns....but i bet they did....

Unclebuck
01-07-2010, 09:38 AM
Don't know if this is elsewhere in one of the threads, but:

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/11984/when-players-act-like-cowboys

Sort of like all the stories of players going into the stands back in the day. Things are different today - players have to realize it

the jaddler
01-07-2010, 09:38 AM
I think Gilbert is a IDIOT for having guns in the District.

But to clarify, everything I have read said he had the guns in one locker and no ammunition with the guns (I have read they were in another locker and that they were home, which one is accurate I do not know)

As I said in another thread, Gilbert made a very, very, stupid decision. He did not help himself at all by joking about it while Stern was giving him "mercy" by letting the legal system play out.

From my POV he should have been suspended as soon as it was announced he had guns in the District. He has been here long enough to know that is illegal.

i dont know either...but remember he is the one that told everyone there were guns in his locker......so did he tell everyone they wernt loaded?????

it doesnt matter if your gun is loaded or not....if you point a gun or something that looks like a gun....wether it is loaded or not....the cops are still going to SHOOT YOU!!!!!:dance:

count55
01-07-2010, 09:39 AM
Hey, I just remember the story from reading Loose Balls, and I always thought it was hilarious.

Of course, Gilbert is a completely different situation, but I do miss the days when we were happy with our players...as long as they didn't shoot each other.

BillS
01-07-2010, 09:52 AM
To me, I think "thug" means someone who, while not necessarily participating in street violence, glorifies it or otherwise makes it popular.

Do you really think the image of an NBA star with guns illegally (by local law) and against workplace policy (NBA) not only making light of the offense itself but then using it to play around with his teammates helps the situation at all?

Thank goodness for Karl Malone condemning this as a man of color who is a responsible gun owner.

heywoode
01-07-2010, 09:55 AM
I think people get too worked up about the use of the word 'thug'. It's not a racial epithet. It isn't SUCH an insult that it needs to be immediately complained about and derided as unnecessary. To be honest, most of the time it has been used around here, I have agreed with the connotation.

When I think of what a 'thug' is to me, it is someone who is a bit (or more) out of control, someone who's behavior is not appropriate for a normal, civilized setting, and someone who's values (by their actions or words) seem to be in conflict with what the majority of rational people would consider to be rational, civilized behavior.

Stephen Jackson, I'm sorry, immediately comes to mind as someone who is a thug. He is always running his yap, always seems ready and willing to fight (as was demonstrated during the brawl when he pulled out his shirt and was standing with fists up and taunting Detroit players, showing he was ready to square off), obviously frequents questionable establishments while carrying a gun, has no problem with squeezing off a few shots into the air in the middle of a large population, etc, etc, etc.....

What other information needs to be known before a person is not just "misunderstood" and actually IS what his behavior demonstrates he is?

Arenas may not be on the level of thugdom that Jackson seems to be, but his past behavior, his recent behavior, and his very recent behavior that got him suspended immediately and indefinitely VERY MUCH seem to indicate to me the behavior of someone who thinks differently than the majority of people. That behavior is indicative of someone who is a THUG.

All the definitions I see refer to someone who is violent, a criminal, a hoodlum, a ruffian, goon, etc...I'm not referring to Arenas or Jackson as being this way all the time. If they display thuggish behavior, they can be considered a thug.

Justin Tyme
01-07-2010, 10:14 AM
Don't know if this is elsewhere in one of the threads, but:

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/11984/when-players-act-like-cowboys



Thanks for the walk done memory lane. A different time to say the least. I can remember when the Meadows and East 38th street was a place you could see the ABA Pacers socializing and dining, and it didn't require taking your 2 friends, Mr. Smith & Mr. Wesson, with you.

sweabs
01-07-2010, 11:32 AM
Interestingly enough, the etymology of the word thug originates from India - used to describe a gang of murderers and robbers. So, in that respect, one could assume there are some underlying racial connotations to begin with.

But, in the last 25 years, I believe we have seen the word thug evolve into something that is used to describe black street violence and/or gang membership within North America. This is not to say that all white people exclusively restrict themselves from applying the word to other races. However, what I believe has happened is that black street culture has developed as a way of embracing that term as their own (we can find countless examples of this through a deeper cultural analysis). With that said, there remains a much larger population of black North Americans who recognize the debilitating effects this cultural phenomenon has on their image as a whole. As such, they want to distance themselves from this group of people altogether.

Therefore, when the term 'thug' is used by a white person to label a young, black male - it denotes an underlying racial connotation that, unfortunately, has been presented and embraced by the gang culprits as a strictly 'black' phenomenon. I'm sure that many will argue, "Well, if he portrayed a characteristic that associates itself with the gang culture, he deserves to be labeled as such." That is your opinion, and you are entitled to that. However, my only suggestion would be to understand and critically evaluate the conscious decision behind your choice of wording. Realize that for many, it has racial connotations that have come to epitomize a black scene - one that weakens their image - one that many would like to distance themselves from.

count55
01-07-2010, 11:44 AM
Interestingly enough, the etymology of the word thug originates from India - used to describe a gang of murderers and robbers. So, in that respect, one could assume there are some underlying racial connotations to begin with.

But, in the last 25 years, I believe we have seen the word thug evolve into something that is used to describe black street violence and/or gang membership within North America. This is not to say that all white people exclusively restrict themselves from applying the word to other races. However, what I believe has happened is that black street culture has developed as a way of embracing that term as their own (we can find countless examples of this through a deeper cultural analysis). With that said, there remains a much larger population of black North Americans who recognize the debilitating effects this cultural phenomenon has on their image as a whole. As such, they want to distance themselves from this group of people altogether.

Therefore, when the term 'thug' is used by a white person to label a young, black male - it denotes an underlying racial connotation that, unfortunately, has been presented and embraced by the gang culprits as a strictly 'black' phenomenon. I'm sure that many will argue, "Well, if he portrayed a characteristic that associates itself with the gang culture, he deserves to be labeled as such." That is your opinion, and you are entitled to that. However, my only suggestion would be to understand and critically evaluate the conscious decision behind your choice of wording. Realize that for many, it has racial connotations that have come to epitomize a black scene - one that weakens their image - one that many would like to distance themselves from.

The word "thug" has become a socially acceptable euphemism for the N word. Whether that is the intent of the speaker or not, that is how it is heard by many.

FWIW, I'm still pretty antiquated. I still tend to think of the '40's film noir version of thugs: big, white guys in trench coats with misshapen noses (mostly the result of the types of movies I watched growing up)...or, in sports, I think of it as a dirty player or a cheap shot artist, someone who is excessively physical, to the point of intentionally trying to hurt other players.

To this day, if I refer to a player as a "thug," what I'm really saying is that he's a goon or an enforcer. However, that's usually just a throwback to an old, old habit. Given the way "thug" is taken these days, I rarely use it, if at all, any more.

Stryder
01-07-2010, 12:35 PM
FWIW, I'm still pretty antiquated. I still tend to think of the '40's film noir version of thugs: big, white guys in trench coats with misshapen noses (mostly the result of the types of movies I watched growing up)...or, in sports, I think of it as a dirty player or a cheap shot artist, someone who is excessively physical, to the point of intentionally trying to hurt other players.

I'm not antiquated, but that's how I use the term 'thug'.

Putnam
01-07-2010, 12:55 PM
Interestingly enough, the etymology of the word thug originates from India - used to describe a gang of murderers and robbers. So, in that respect, one could assume there are some underlying racial connotations to begin with.

Why? Most of the people of India are (and most members of the Thugger cult were) Caucasian.

The rest of your post is good. "Thug" is a word we can do without. We can just say we don't like an individual or don't approve of his behavior without using a controversial word that always sidetrack the conversation.

Five game win streak!

(Made ya look!)

Since86
01-07-2010, 01:03 PM
Why? Most of the people of India are (and most members of the Thugger cult were) Caucasian.


Wouldn't they be Indian, and not Caucasian?

vapacersfan
01-07-2010, 02:01 PM
The word thug gets thrown around way too loosely here IMO...

I tend to agree.

However in this case I firmly beleive both guys wanted to be "gansters" and there actions were very thug like (especially loading a gun and cambering a round, if the story is true)

count55
01-07-2010, 02:06 PM
Wouldn't they be Indian, and not Caucasian?

This is way, way out of my area of expertise, but I had been taught once, as answer to a trivia question, that there were three races in the world: Caucasoid, Negroid, and Mongoloid.

However, as I type it, I am almost sure I am wrong, and I'm more than a little afraid that I'm quoting classifications from the 1800's.

If so, I'm sure someone would correct me.

Since86
01-07-2010, 02:20 PM
This is way, way out of my area of expertise, but I had been taught once, as answer to a trivia question, that there were three races in the world: Caucasoid, Negroid, and Mongoloid.

However, as I type it, I am almost sure I am wrong, and I'm more than a little afraid that I'm quoting classifications from the 1800's.

If so, I'm sure someone would correct me.

:tmyk:

I always thought Caucasian were "white," Northern Europe, North America, etc. Wiki defines Caucasian as
The term Caucasian race (also Caucasoid) has been used to denote the general physical type of some or all of the indigenous populations of Europe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe), North Africa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Africa), the Horn of Africa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horn_of_Africa), West Asia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Asia), Central Asia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Asia), and South Asia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Asia).<SUP class=reference id=cite_ref-0>[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race#cite_note-0)</SUP> Historically, the term has been used to describe the entire population of these regions, without regard necessarily to skin tone. In common use, the term is sometimes restricted to Europeans and other lighter-skinned populations within these areas, and may be considered equivalent to the varying definitions of white people (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_people).<SUP class=reference id=cite_ref-1>[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race#cite_note-1)</SUP> The term has also sometimes been equated with the lesser known term Europid, or Europoid,<SUP class=reference id=cite_ref-2>[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race#cite_note-2)</SUP> although in classification Europeans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europeans) were considered a sub-branch of Caucasian.<SUP class=reference id=cite_ref-3>[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race#cite_note-3)</SUP>

I guess it probably has to do with standardized tests you take in high school, when it asks you your race Caucasian, Hispanic, Latin, Asian, African American, etc are all seperated and mostly it falls along skin tone.

vapacersfan
01-07-2010, 02:24 PM
Local news in Washington DC is reporting the teammates who joked around in the picture were fined 25k each (no link, just heard via text message)

Kuq_e_Zi91
01-07-2010, 02:37 PM
Local news in Washington DC is reporting the teammates who joked around in the picture were fined 25k each (no link, just heard via text message)

Yeah, I heard this too.

The NBA: Where Getting Fined For Smiling Happens

Since86
01-07-2010, 02:40 PM
No, it's not about smiling. It's about condoning his actions. It's not a laughing matter.

Putnam
01-07-2010, 02:45 PM
The link Since86 posted clarifies the matter I raised.

South Asian (Northern Indian) people are dark-skinned Caucasians. Anthropologists use the term Indo-European because Europeans and south Asia share a lot of traits -- especially language.

Wylder1324
01-07-2010, 02:54 PM
Ok dont get me wrong, Arenas broke rules, and made light of it, and deserves the suspension. But to be honest the more that comes out about it all it seems more like Crittenton should be the one who is more harshly punished. Arenas had no ammunition and presented the guns to Crittenton because Crittenton had made a comment on how he was going to shoot Arenas in his surgically repaired knee, Arenas was basically joking saying ok take your pick of which one you want to do it with as in your full of crap. I dont see how this makes him a thug. Again, he never should have had the weapons there if they werent allowed, but he never had any ammunition in the vicinity, nor did he even point one at anyone, they were basically just used as a prop for a practical joke......this is nothing like the shots fired here in Indiana by the real thugs that we had here. I just think its all getting blown out of proportion, and nowa days if an individual owns guns he is automatically a thug.

Kstat
01-07-2010, 03:01 PM
For the 937192878th time:

How do you "know" Arenas was joking? Do you know him personally?

Since86
01-07-2010, 03:08 PM
Someone who isn't supposed to have guns, for multiple reasons, shouldn't get blamed and it's blown out of proportion?

There is no "joking" around when it comes to firearms, period. You don't "jokingly" point it at someone, you don't even "jokingly" take them out as a prop for a joke.

Crittenton might be getting off light, so far, but that doesn't mean Arenas doesn't deserve what he's had thrown his way.


nowa days if an individual owns guns he is automatically a thug. If he had a permit/liscense to carry, it's a whole different ballgame. But he didn't.

There are millions of responsible people that own guns, and they are about as far away as a "thug" as can be.

sweabs
01-07-2010, 03:10 PM
Why? Most of the people of India are (and most members of the Thugger cult were) Caucasian.
If most of the members of the cult were Caucasian, how does that absolve the word from any racial undertones?

Shade
01-07-2010, 03:39 PM
Didn't SJax do something similar (emulating shooting guns) before a game when he was with GS?

sweabs
01-07-2010, 03:46 PM
Didn't SJax do something similar (emulating shooting guns) before a game when he was with GS?
During the 2007 playoffs he had Matt Barnes come up and perform a weapons check on him during the player introductions. That was about 6 months after he had the infamous shooting at the club.

speakout4
01-07-2010, 06:10 PM
Critt will no doubt be suspended too. Any trade ideas since they will be needing PGs?:rolleyes:

PacerDude
01-07-2010, 06:14 PM
Critt will no doubt be suspended too. Any trade ideas since they will be needing PGs?:rolleyes:TJFord

'scuse me.

speakout4
01-07-2010, 06:25 PM
TJFord

'scuse me.
I'm guessing Critt will be suspended long enuf so that the wizards will just cut him.

the jaddler
01-07-2010, 08:30 PM
Whats eating Gilbert Arenas?

Anthem
01-07-2010, 09:45 PM
Critt will no doubt be suspended too. Any trade ideas since they will be needing PGs?:rolleyes:
Well, Caron Butler for TJ Ford works... :signit:

More likely Mike Miller or James/Stevenson.