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BillS
01-06-2010, 09:26 AM
http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsider/archives/2010/01/feed_the_big_fe_1.html


Feed the big fella
Posted by Mike Wells


THE ` HOUSE - Roy Hibbert could have easily sat at his locker and gloated to the media about how he got the upper hand against Orlando All-Star center Dwight Howard in the Pacers' (surprising) seven-point victory over the Magic.

I wouldn't have blamed him if he did because it's not often that you get the best of a player of Howard's caliber.

That wasn't the big fella, though.

Hibbert sat surrounded by a handful of media folks and talked about how he wants to continue to get better.

"I'm just trying to be consistent," the second-year center said. "I can't have games where I play well against one guy and then two or three games where I don't play well. I have to be able to do it all the time and keep pushing myself. My teammates are pushing me."

That's what you like to hear from a young player like Hibbert when you think about the big picture.

Hibbert doesn't want to settle.

He'll have games where he struggles against some of the more athletic big men in the league, but at the same time, he'll continue to push himself to get better.

My guy Sunshine was pleading for me to mention that he told me before hand that Hibbert would have a good game against Howard.

Hibbert can score with either hand and he's doing a much better job of reading the defense and finding his teammates cutting to the basket.

"I've been working on scoring with my left and right, that gives me an advantage," he said. "I'm also seeing the court. I think when guys cut and move I can get them passes."

Mike Dunleavy said it best about what Hibbert can do in the post.

"He's a load down there," Dunleavy said. "If you're going to play behind him, I don't care who you are, he's 7-2, he's going to score. He's really got his confidence up and he's got his moves down.

"With the personnel we have right now, a lot of our guys out, he's a great option and it's working for us, so we're going to keep going to him."

*********************

Naptown Seth will be the guest blogger for Friday's game against the Minnesota Timberwolves.

Seth was the first one to say that the Pacers would end their losing streak against Minnesota last week.

Seth, who was nice enough to come up and introduce himself to me after the Orlando game, said he's going to blog about the state of the team.

We'll do more of these during the season.

twitter.com/wells222

Any pool on how many words in Seth will mention certain topics? :zip:

duke dynamite
01-06-2010, 09:28 AM
Yes, feed it to Hungry Hungry Hibbert!

McKeyFan
01-06-2010, 09:34 AM
"With the personnel we have right now, a lot of our guys out, he's a great option and it's working for us, so we're going to keep going to him."

Translated: When the guys out come back, Roy suddenly doesn't become a great option and we'll stop going to him.

:banghead:

Lance George
01-06-2010, 09:36 AM
Did Seth really predict we'd end our losing streak against the mighty Timberwolves? Pretty bold prediction.

pianoman
01-06-2010, 09:43 AM
Translated: When the guys out come back, Roy suddenly doesn't become a great option and we'll stop going to him.

:banghead:

unfortunately, so true...

Hicks
01-06-2010, 09:46 AM
Congrats, Seth.

Try not to make all of Indianapolis want to :suicide3:. ;)

duke dynamite
01-06-2010, 09:59 AM
Congrats, Seth.

Try not to make all of Indianapolis want to :suicide3:. ;)

Don't worry, Kravitz done most of them in this morning.

Unclebuck
01-06-2010, 10:14 AM
Hibbert needs his Dale Davis, just like Smits needed Dale Davis. As much as I like Hansbrough and as good as I think he'll be, not sure he is the answer alongside of Roy.

BillS
01-06-2010, 10:59 AM
One hopes Dun means that when certain players return we'll have more options so feeding Roy won't be the only way to win.

After all, some teams have centers who can shut Roy off of that hook shut by pushing him away from the basket or by playing bigger (Roy plays like he is a lot smaller than 7' 2"). Against those guys, you're a stubborn as you think JOB is if you keep going to Roy anyway. You have to have more than one way to score.

JayRedd
01-06-2010, 11:00 AM
What's Indy Star Style Guide say about double and triple line breaks?

Lance George
01-06-2010, 11:04 AM
Hibbert needs his Dale Davis, just like Smits needed Dale Davis. As much as I like Hansbrough and as good as I think he'll be, not sure he is the answer alongside of Roy.
I'd argue Tyler is more along the lines of Antonio. As for finding another Dale Davis - Emeka Okafor is in the same mold and could possibly be had if management thinks he's worth his salary.

McKeyFan
01-06-2010, 11:06 AM
Hibbert needs his Dale Davis, just like Smits needed Dale Davis. As much as I like Hansbrough and as good as I think he'll be, not sure he is the answer alongside of Roy.

Someone "like Dale Davis" is a tall order.

But Tyler has the potential to be a poor man's Dale, I believe.

PacerGuy
01-06-2010, 11:06 AM
What's Indy Star Style Guide say about double and triple line breaks?
They are against them - "Don't do Drugs!!!" :devil:
then again...
If you are breaking a line to get the open urinal to avoid p***ing youeself, then it's OK.

Peck
01-06-2010, 12:49 PM
One hopes Dun means that when certain players return we'll have more options so feeding Roy won't be the only way to win.

After all, some teams have centers who can shut Roy off of that hook shut by pushing him away from the basket or by playing bigger (Roy plays like he is a lot smaller than 7' 2"). Against those guys, you're a stubborn as you think JOB is if you keep going to Roy anyway. You have to have more than one way to score.

Um, you mean other than Dwight Howard?

Sollozzo
01-06-2010, 12:55 PM
Translated: When the guys out come back, Roy suddenly doesn't become a great option and we'll stop going to him.

:banghead:


If that ends up being true, I'm going to throw up.

BillS
01-06-2010, 01:46 PM
Um, you mean other than Dwight Howard?

Dwight was pushing him out but he was not able to reach up and smother the hook shot. That's the reason Roy does well against him offensively.

Peck
01-06-2010, 02:22 PM
Dwight was pushing him out but he was not able to reach up and smother the hook shot. That's the reason Roy does well against him offensively.

Not to be argumentative but if Dwight can't rise up and get a shot who in this league (if not world) can?

What I'm getting at is that Dwight is exactly the player you are describing. He is stong and tall and can jump higher than almost anyone.

Hmmmm faster than a speeding bullet, more powerfull than a locamotive able to leap tall buildings in a single bound.....I've heard that somewhere before.:D

On nights like this when Roy has it going I am going out on a limb and saying that there are very few players who can stop him. Now you can state that Howard had an off game due to foul trouble and I can't disagree. But I've seen Roy get it going enough this year to believe that this was not an anomoly.

McKeyFan
01-06-2010, 02:29 PM
Well, he smoked Duncan and Dwight. Who else out there is any better defensively?

Unclebuck
01-06-2010, 02:54 PM
I think we are getting a little too excited. Even if we assume what some of you are saying is correct, teams will adjust, they will start double teaming, digging down, faking double teams, fronting him more. There is a long way to go before we can make some of these pronouncements

Naptown_Seth
01-06-2010, 02:59 PM
Did Seth really predict we'd end our losing streak against the mighty Timberwolves? Pretty bold prediction.
Yep. Check the comments on Wells post around the 27th or so when he mentioned the blog contest. I was the first response and said Minny due to scheduling for both teams (us at home with rest, them with lots of games and travel).


On Roy's height on the hook - it was frustrating Dwight quite a bit. On the other end Dwight started trying to really bang Roy and was moving him a good couple of feet each hit. Roy needs to add a chair pull there because he could have dropped Dwight easily. I agree that Dwight is a guy that can go get that shot, and frankly Roy already spent time going against one of the biggest, most capable shot blockers around in Thabeet.



Howard caught a ton of crap from fans, more than any I've yet heard, but I have to say he was pretty good spirited about it.


The game was rowdy, all the fans that got upgraded to fill the LL was part of it, the game was physical which got people going too, and of course it was close with lots of fouls and techs. By far the best game of the year I've been too. I don't mean "biggest win" or because of beating the Magic. I'm talking quality of experience, it was nuts.

Got a lot of great photos though. Give me time to Pbucket tonight and post them. No cheerleaders, I'm blocked by the visitor's bench at timeouts (they all stand in the way).

Kuq_e_Zi91
01-06-2010, 03:05 PM
Well, he smoked Duncan and Dwight. Who else out there is any better defensively?

David Lee.

Speed
01-06-2010, 03:06 PM
Roy's getting better and smarter. The guys who CAN knock him off his spot are going to have more trouble doing it. Kendrick Perkins, Brendan Heywoode, those types.

Hopefully Roy is understanding, he really can't be stopped, but the same move in the same situation won't work against all players. I see him getting this in a big way.

Example, last night Howard had foul trouble in the second half, on one move Roy took two hard dribbles base line almost right at Howard and put in a little half hook on the other side of the rim.

Not a move against a power player in the first quarter, but one against him with 4 fouls in the second half. Smart!

Two things he'll start to have to improve on that he hasn't really seen much of yet.

-Double team-both pre and post dribble

-Fronting

Orlando tried both and were sucessful at times. All of this working is predicated on three things really.

-An offense designed to make it a consistent point to get him the ball in the low post.

-Roy working hard, but smart to get position.

-his teammates working hard and smart to get him the ball or get open if he's double teamed.

The next step in year 3 and 4 is consistency.

pacergod2
01-06-2010, 03:10 PM
I think we are getting a little too excited. Even if we assume what some of you are saying is correct, teams will adjust, they will start double teaming, digging down, faking double teams, fronting him more. There is a long way to go before we can make some of these pronouncements

I can't wait for those double teams to come! Anthem, who was it that said... "Exactly how many times have you seen Hibbert defeat a double team?". I hope we will start to find out. It is progress. I pray to god that JOB doesn't bench Hibbert next game.

Sookie
01-06-2010, 03:18 PM
I think we are getting a little too excited. Even if we assume what some of you are saying is correct, teams will adjust, they will start double teaming, digging down, faking double teams, fronting him more. There is a long way to go before we can make some of these pronouncements

Well that's why the offense should revolve around him.

He's efficient when scoring, and he's a good passer when he's double teamed.

So yes, other people need to be able to score, but running your offense through Roy is not a bad idea.

JBones19
01-06-2010, 03:19 PM
I love Hibbert but I think the one thing he needs to learn how to do is go up strong. I don't know how many times I've seen him try to go up and under or attempt a finesse lay-up around a guy in his way. He needs to get that nasty streak down low and try to dunk on guys when he's under the basket. If nothing else he'll get to the line more that way and I don't mind that.

Anthem
01-06-2010, 03:19 PM
I can't wait for those double teams to come! Anthem, who was it that said... "Exactly how many times have you seen Hibbert defeat a double team?". I hope we will start to find out.
Dunno, but I was thinking the same thing.

YES! DOUBLE-TEAM HIBBERT! If the dude can consistently draw a double-team that's going to help us a TON. Hansbro's midrange shooting, Granger and Rush on the wings, Price at PG.... we'd be a LOT more efficient on offense if Hibbert can continue to improve and start drawing more double teams.

Look, the kid's improved a ton to get to this point. I'm not saying he's a finished product, but what exactly makes anybody think he'll stop being able to improve?

Peck
01-06-2010, 03:30 PM
I think we are getting a little too excited. Even if we assume what some of you are saying is correct, teams will adjust, they will start double teaming, digging down, faking double teams, fronting him more. There is a long way to go before we can make some of these pronouncements

I'm not pronouncing anything really. However with what you are saying about teams having to adjust to Roy I think that is a win for the Pacers.

If Roy improves to be able to deal with double teams and we actually could get someone to make them pay for this they Roy will be invaluable.

BillS
01-06-2010, 03:43 PM
Not to be argumentative but if Dwight can't rise up and get a shot who in this league (if not world) can?

What I'm getting at is that Dwight is exactly the player you are describing. He is stong and tall and can jump higher than almost anyone.

Dwight wasn't trying to defend the hook by getting into the air after it. At least, I didn't see him leave the ground. Wingspan-to-wingspan I think he doesn't have an advantage over Roy just standing still.

It seems to me that when Roy's hook isn't falling it is more due to the way defenders force him to position his body and where he ends up, not that they somehow leap up and block it. They make him flatten it so they can then either block it or simply make it miss. There are players who aren't normally great shot blockers that frustrate the daylights out of Roy because of this, while others whom you would expect to be blocking shots all day long don't get after it. In both games against the Magic, Dwight has seemed to me to be the latter.

IndyProdigy
01-06-2010, 03:47 PM
I'll pronounce this: if not for roy hibbert, this team wouldnt have much going for them. (with hans and granger out)

ChicagoJ
01-06-2010, 04:01 PM
I think we are getting a little too excited. Even if we assume what some of you are saying is correct, teams will adjust, they will start double teaming, digging down, faking double teams, fronting him more. There is a long way to go before we can make some of these pronouncements

Since we don't have any other players that command a double-team, please explain how this is a bad thing?

PLEASE double-team Roy.

Naptown_Seth
01-06-2010, 04:27 PM
The game was also very vocal. Another classic moment was when the ref got knocked over as Watson was forced out of bounds. Watson was standing around the group that was all hanging over the ref seeing if he's all right, and gamer that he is Watson is just pleading his case of "he blew the whistle though, he called the foul" over and over. Good stuff.

They still gave the ball to Orlando though.

Naptown_Seth
01-06-2010, 04:36 PM
Since we don't have any other players that command a double-team, please explain how this is a bad thing?

PLEASE double-team Roy.
No kidding. Did you see the GnGo with Head for the layup? Roy has been making 5 out of 6 great passes I'd estimate. Yes he's still dumping a few per game that end up as cheap TOs, but he's making just as many really good passes.

It's not just a case of catch-double-kick like any big can kinda do, I mean threading needles, hitting the hands, bouncing as needed. He has a very strong, fundamental passing game. He got doubled like crazy in summer ball and it only made things worse for teams.

Roy doesn't have to get the score or assist on every play to be critical, he is the starting point to get the offense working. The anchor as I keep saying. You might high post him, let him kick back to you and then drive over him as the pick in the high post and when you draw weakside help in the lane you kick it to Dun for the 3 (didn't we just see that last night?)

There's no assist on a play like that, but being able to work off him and start the defensive adjustments toward him opens up the next stage of a play. Or they play off and he gets some points.


Roy will definitely have plenty of bad nights to come, but it's just dumb to not use a 7'2" guy with a reliable hook and a growing jumper game.

IMO this not only helped in the technical strategy of things, but also gave the team an EMOTIONAL lift of confidence because they knew they had a go-to play/guy at the other end. The vision of a plan gives guys HOPE. "Get a stop here and we can feed Roy and get that 2 points back for the tie". You can't undervalue that.

It was one of the things a guy like Reggie brought. Not that he'll make the shot for sure, but that you knew that you could count on him to get something up that had a good shot of going in, or would create space for something else easy. Frankly this was Rik too. See the 8 in 8.9 game. Having Rik to grind out points kept that team in the game and prevented a blow out.

Naptown_Seth
01-06-2010, 04:46 PM
Roy's getting better and smarter. The guys who CAN knock him off his spot are going to have more trouble doing it. Kendrick Perkins, Brendan Heywoode, those types.

Hopefully Roy is understanding, he really can't be stopped, but the same move in the same situation won't work against all players. I see him getting this in a big way.

Example, last night Howard had foul trouble in the second half, on one move Roy took two hard dribbles base line almost right at Howard and put in a little half hook on the other side of the rim.

Not a move against a power player in the first quarter, but one against him with 4 fouls in the second half. Smart!

Two things he'll start to have to improve on that he hasn't really seen much of yet.

-Double team-both pre and post dribble

-Fronting

Orlando tried both and were sucessful at times. All of this working is predicated on three things really.

-An offense designed to make it a consistent point to get him the ball in the low post.

-Roy working hard, but smart to get position.

-his teammates working hard and smart to get him the ball or get open if he's double teamed.

The next step in year 3 and 4 is consistency.
The dribble baseline to reverse was incredible. Very impressive move period.

Feeding the post, especially with early doubles, is tricky. You'll notice that they have Rush and Jones do this especially and part of it is do to how Rush especially spaces. He knows what the safe post feed is and when it's not there and how to get it usually.

Last night one feed got tipped out but only because time ran down and Rush couldn't keep waiting on Roy to get perfectly clear, so he tried to thread the baseline side the best he could. The key is that I watched he and whoever was up top working to feed Roy, not just forcing it. They saw what was happening and tried to deal with it.

So from that I think you do see them get better. The bigger issue is cutting and spacing once Roy goes to work. Some of the time they got lost watching instead of playing, and that took away the help Roy needed.


DALE
BTW, um, you did have a PF play last night that got 6 rebounds in 13 minutes. I mean I could go for 12-13 per 30, but that's me. Still waiting on Josh to have the game so bad he shouldn't play anymore, the game clearly worse (let alone "not better than") what Tyler is doing.

pssst - Josh is now 2nd on the team in eFG% with a .541, trailing only Murphy. Yes his FGAs is low enough that this can still swing quickly, I'm just saying it's not a knock on him like it was according to people when he was 4 of 12 or whatever.

He's also 3rd on the team in blocks per minute (Roy, Solo) and 4th in Oreb per minute (Roy, Tyler, Jeff)

gummy
01-06-2010, 04:47 PM
IMO this not only helped in the technical strategy of things, but also gave the team an EMOTIONAL lift of confidence because they knew they had a go-to play/guy at the other end. The vision of a plan gives guys HOPE. "Get a stop here and we can feed Roy and get that 2 points back for the tie". You can't undervalue that.



This is important enough that I wanted to do more than just thank it. I think sometimes many people forget these guys are human. The emotional lift matters quite a bit.

McKeyFan
01-06-2010, 04:51 PM
IMO this not only helped in the technical strategy of things, but also gave the team an EMOTIONAL lift of confidence because they knew they had a go-to play/guy at the other end. The vision of a plan gives guys HOPE. "Get a stop here and we can feed Roy and get that 2 points back for the tie". You can't undervalue that.

There are a lot of things like that going on that stats don't capture. And a lot of the stats guys seem to not like Hibbert.

Ultimately, the human element reins supreme in this game, and there's mystery to the human element that pure math can't capture.

Kemo
01-06-2010, 04:56 PM
Not to be argumentative but if Dwight can't rise up and get a shot who in this league (if not world) can?

What I'm getting at is that Dwight is exactly the player you are describing. He is stong and tall and can jump higher than almost anyone.


EXACTAMUNDO!!

CASE IN POINT:


Not many guys ( IF ANY) can dunk a ball while putting a sticker at the very top of the backboard ..lol


at reaching 12 feet and 6 inches




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCNK6VaBXeY






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCNK6VaBXeY

Kemo
01-06-2010, 05:03 PM
David Lee.


haha thanks, I just sprayed dew on my monitor..:dance::dance:

BobbyMac
01-06-2010, 05:45 PM
Translated: When the guys out come back, Roy suddenly doesn't become a great option and we'll stop going to him.

:banghead:

LOL...always trying to find the bad side of any quote. Got to love it!

BobbyMac
01-06-2010, 05:51 PM
I thought it was very interesting that in the 2nd half Howard was working much harder at keeping Roy from getting the ball rather than blocking other people's shots and that when Roy got the ball down low the Magic were double teaming him every time. As he gets more consistant in his play this will help the Pacers. I have been really impressed with his improvement.

Rush seems to be playing better now, Perhaps he is a better player off the bench.

PacerDude
01-06-2010, 06:01 PM
However with what you are saying about teams having to adjust to Roy I think that is a win for the Pacers. Agreed 101%.

As soon as Team A has a player that Team B has to make/change their game plan for, Team B is suddenly forced to do things that they're not completely familiar with. Advantage Team A.

It's a little ray of sunshine. I don't think it goes with JOB's concept of offense though. So, all of a sudden, JOB is forced to do things that he's not completely familiar with.

Damn those double edge swords.

ksuttonjr76
01-06-2010, 06:47 PM
I love Hibbert but I think the one thing he needs to learn how to do is go up strong. I don't know how many times I've seen him try to go up and under or attempt a finesse lay-up around a guy in his way. He needs to get that nasty streak down low and try to dunk on guys when he's under the basket. If nothing else he'll get to the line more that way and I don't mind that.

QFT. I think he'll eventually get there. IMHO, he's right at that mental "edge" where he finds out "Man, they can't stop me". Yao was kinda soft when he first came into league, and eventually starting taking the ball strong in the paint. There's only so many times that you'll block a person's shot, before he's gets frustrated and wants to exact his revenge in a different manner.

ksuttonjr76
01-06-2010, 06:50 PM
Dunno, but I was thinking the same thing.

YES! DOUBLE-TEAM HIBBERT! If the dude can consistently draw a double-team that's going to help us a TON. Hansbro's midrange shooting, Granger and Rush on the wings, Price at PG.... we'd be a LOT more efficient on offense if Hibbert can continue to improve and start drawing more double teams.

Look, the kid's improved a ton to get to this point. I'm not saying he's a finished product, but what exactly makes anybody think he'll stop being able to improve?

I was also thinking the same thing. I always thought he could pass for center (he had some nifty passes last season), so I'm glad that everyone is finally taking note. IMHO, feeding Roy and letting him work in the paint and/or pass out of double teams is a MUCH better offense than "taking the 1st shot available regardless of your bigs' rebounding position".

gummy
01-06-2010, 11:04 PM
Rush seems to be playing better now, Perhaps he is a better player off the bench.

I think it's been pointed out more than once that Rush and Hibbert seem to play better in a more structured offensive system. When we have Roy anchoring the post and Watson/Price playing a more traditional PG role than TJ typically does we get a situation where BRush is more likely to thrive.

There might be something clicking in his head on the offensive side now but I think it's just as likely that he simply has better chemistry with the people he is sharing the floor with right now.