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Shade
01-04-2010, 12:06 AM
I'm assuming part of the "3-year plan" is to move the expiring contracts we have next season (Murphy, Ford, and Dunleavy) to a team willing to shed an All-Star to get under the luxury tax.

Who do you think is a realistic target in this scenario?

Hicks
01-04-2010, 12:15 AM
It's tricky to answer because you never know who the next team will be that goes into fall of 2010 thinking they'll be a playoff contender only to fall hard on their face like Philly and Washington have this year.

I guess if you think you can forecast who those teams might be next year, that's a start.

Will Galen
01-04-2010, 12:16 AM
Who do you think is a realistic target in this scenario?

Way, way, to early to even guess. We can't just target any old player. Someone like West of New Orleans might be available, if not him probably someone of his ability.

It would also depend on where we need help at the time. Say Hands is doing good and we picked up a good PF in the draft. Then it wouldn't make sense to trade for a PF.

Hicks
01-04-2010, 12:19 AM
One thing to hope for is New Jersey winning the lottery (after us, of course). If they take John Wall, I'm fairly confident they will look to trade Devin Harris.

However, they may prefer to trade him for a young guy they like better than one of ours and a quality veteran who plays another position, or they may prefer to try to find a 1 for 1 swap for a player who plays something other than PG. If neither of those pan out, then we could come calling to offer the "get out from under the money" and a young guy and picks option.

For the time being I'm still for going after Okafor. I think you could get him without giving up a young guy or a pick.

Thesterovic
01-04-2010, 12:20 AM
Caron Butler
Josh Howard
Baron Davis
Chris Kaman
Andre Igoudala
Gilbert Arenas (NO)
Steve Nash
Rip Hamilton
Ben Gordon
Monta Ellis
Andre Miller/Greg Oden combo
Andres Nocioni
Elton Brand
Antawn Jamison
David West
Rajon Rondo


There are ALOT of exceptions though. I hope to have a real computer handy soon because I have been VERY anxious to make several threads about almost everything. I PD from PS3.

For example, to take on BDiddys contract, we get a 1st, a 2nd, and Al Thornton as well.

For example, if we get Brand, we get Speights and Thaddeus.

OR if we take on Peja Stojakavic, we get David West, Darren Collison, and two future top 3 protected 1sts.

Or just do straight up trades like West, Rondo, Harris, Ginobli, Parker, Carter, Gasol, or Ellis.

Most realistically as of now, Ellis, Igoudala, West, G Wallace, Calderon, Battier, and Jamison/Butler package.

trey
01-04-2010, 12:29 AM
Most realistically as of now, Ellis, Igoudala, West, G Wallace, Calderon, Battier, and Jamison/Butler package.

Man I'd love to have Gerald Wallace on the Pacers.

jhondog28
01-04-2010, 12:30 AM
I'm assuming part of the "3-year plan" is to move the expiring contracts we have next season (Murphy, Ford, and Dunleavy) to a team willing to shed an All-Star to get under the luxury tax.

Who do you think is a realistic target in this scenario?

You also have to analyze if any of those guys will be resigned. I would say 2 of 3 are gone. More than likely Murphy and Ford. Dunleavy will probably be resigned but more than liely 2-3 yr range.

Thesterovic
01-04-2010, 12:31 AM
I want Dun back.

count55
01-04-2010, 12:58 AM
You won't be able to get an All Star just by sending or combining expiring contracts.

You're going to need to throw in quality youth (of which we have none) and/or draft picks.

The short answer to your specific question is: no one.

All that expiring contracts by themselves will get is a player like Troy Murphy.

Hicks
01-04-2010, 01:17 AM
You won't be able to get an All Star just by sending or combining expiring contracts.

You're going to need to throw in quality youth (of which we have none) and/or draft picks.

The short answer to your specific question is: no one.

All that expiring contracts by themselves will get is a player like Troy Murphy.

Wow. I disagree with that.

There's a big gap between all-star and Troy Murphy, and I think the expiring contracts can at least get you something somewhere in the middle.

se7en
01-04-2010, 01:20 AM
Right now, the answer to fixing this team is basically a complete roster overhaul. We've done a good job in improving our image based on good overall character but injuries and a lack of talent of left this team decimated. A good sign of where we could be heading would be the shopping of talented players that could net us draft picks in the later 1st round would be one direction to take. Jeff Foster could definately draw interest from some teams and taking advantage of those competing for a playoff spot but hurting from injuries is one route to deeply consider. Portland might be willing to give up some for Foster, but at the same time as a fan you become to invested in the talent you have and overshoot what you're capable of getting. Foster could net us a pick such as a 2nd rounder and a body to replace him. Not sure how the contracts would match up and how serious of interest Portland would have in Foster, but I'd think he'd fit the bill for what they need which is rebounding.

I know San Antonio in the past has had interest in Foster, another route. Not saying Jeff is a problematic player I'm just assuming that someone of his abilities would fit in better than say a player needing shots. Plus Jeff's contract is a little big for someone that doesn't play that often and isn't to huge to move I don't think.

As for Dunleavy and Murphy, well get use to seeing them play here, because up until they're up for free agency, they'll be here, unless of course Murphy stays healthy (haha) and produces like he did last year, then a team might possibly come calling, but that is a huge leap.

TJ is going to be tough to move. Teams typically don't spend money on players that suck and the only way we can acquire someone for him is if that person sucks worse.

I'm sure if we shopped the youngsters like Rush, Hibbert, Hans, we could find takers, but what would be the point in sacraficing them? They're our future. Well Hibbert and Hans atleast, for now.
t
Its not a good time to be a Pacers fan, but Luther Head just gave my fantasy team a nice boost when I picked him up so I'm not to bad off just yet.

McKeyFan
01-04-2010, 03:03 AM
I want Dun back.

I did too until about a week ago.

CableKC
01-04-2010, 03:48 AM
I'm assuming part of the "3-year plan" is to move the expiring contracts we have next season (Murphy, Ford, and Dunleavy) to a team willing to shed an All-Star to get under the luxury tax.

Who do you think is a realistic target in this scenario?

I've always assumed the 3 yr plan involving Ford/Foster/MurphLeavy was to simply let 3 of them expire while moving 1 for an Expiring Contract before the 2009-2010 trade deadline. After the 4 of them are off the books, we'd sign a group of solid FA to go with the future core of players. I was never expecting to move all 4 of the 2010-2011 expiring contracts unless we can get a good trade for them....which I doubt will happen with the race for the 2010 FA sweepstakes. If we don't move any of them before the 2009-2010 trade deadline while getting back some expiring contracts, we're only going to get longer term contracts back in return....and unless we get back one that is worth adding to our future core of players beyond the 2011-2012 season, I'd rather let them expire and do what OKC and the Blazers has done....build a good core of young players via the draft then use the Capspace to get involved in acquiring assets via trades.

CableKC
01-04-2010, 04:11 AM
Wow. I disagree with that.

There's a big gap between all-star and Troy Murphy, and I think the expiring contracts can at least get you something somewhere in the middle.
I'd think that we'd be getting overpaid contracts in return for an expiring contract in the 2010-2011 season. I'm thinking along the lines of a SJax or Maggette-like Overpaid contract. It's not that I think that expiring contracts do not have value, I just do not think they have as much value as you think it does. Deals like the Gasol for Kwame's Expiring contract+draft considerations only happens with stupid GMs and occur once in a lifetime.

I'm just more confident in the "letting them all expire" route then the one involving trading expiring contracts for contracts that I think will likely be overpaid. Having copius amounts of Capspace allows for more flexibility and options to improve then trying to acquire a player who will likely be overpaid.

d_c
01-04-2010, 04:47 AM
IDeals like the Gasol for Kwame's Expiring contract+draft considerations only happens with stupid GMs and occur once in a lifetime.

Deals like that also happen because one team's owner is willing to pay the luxury tax while another isn't. Gasol would be in Chicago right now if Jerry Reinsdorf was willing to pay the luxury tax.

The good news for the Pacers is they can "be like the Lakers" if faced with a similar situation because they will be so far under the tax. They can absorb a deal like that. And yeah, it will also take somewhat of a fire sale from another team, but those happen. (FWIW, a losing team that takes on a player and contract like Gasol might not even be the best option. Remember how far Gasol was taking Memphis as the best player: not far at all.)

Pacers just need to avoid taking any unnecessary contracts between now and summer 2011. Draft well this summer and in 2011 and determine which one of the current young guys are worth keeping (chances are not all of them will be). The roster around 2011-2012 will look dramatically different than it does now.

Peck
01-04-2010, 04:51 AM
You won't be able to get an All Star just by sending or combining expiring contracts.

You're going to need to throw in quality youth (of which we have none) and/or draft picks.

The short answer to your specific question is: no one.

All that expiring contracts by themselves will get is a player like Troy Murphy.

Assuming you are correct, I have no idea on this btw, what do you think then that the plan is? Or do you think that the "plan" really has all just been a smoke and mirrors routine to give us hope and in reality they are hopeing to get lucky via the draft or other?

Because if what you are saying is true then I really am depressed because we may really be looking at 5 to 10 years of rebuilding and then really only rebuilding to mediocre not contenders.

d_c
01-04-2010, 04:58 AM
Assuming you are correct, I have no idea on this btw, what do you think then that the plan is? Or do you think that the "plan" really has all just been a smoke and mirrors routine to give us hope and in reality they are hopeing to get lucky via the draft or other?

Because if what you are saying is true then I really am depressed because we may really be looking at 5 to 10 years of rebuilding and then really only rebuilding to mediocre not contenders.

I think in the short term (last year, this year) Bird wanted the team to be more competitive than it is. Probably wanted to make a run at a low playoff seed to get some fans back.

But in the long term, it's all about 2-3 years down the future. Right now, it's just too much money committed to guys of too little impact.

Right now, it's impossible to predict what particular FA signing or trade they might make, but competently run teams with salary cap flexibility have always been able to make good moves. There are so many things they will be able to do in a couple years that they just can't do right now.

It's a tough situation right now, but it is what it is. And the reality is that a good portion of this current bunch isn't going to be here in a couple years and certainly isn't going to be here when the team is once again a factor in the eastern conference.

aero
01-04-2010, 04:58 AM
Daniel Gibson seems to be the odd man out for the Cavs. I could see us going after him possibly.

Trader Joe
01-04-2010, 05:26 AM
Daniel Gibson seems to be the odd man out for the Cavs. I could see us going after him possibly.
:laugh:

Yeah for the league minimum.

Erik
01-04-2010, 06:44 AM
Man I'd love to have Gerald Wallace on the Pacers.

He would die. He and the court at Conseco Fieldhouse do not get along.

Major Cold
01-04-2010, 08:00 AM
I want Jarrett Jack. Again. Seriously.

wintermute
01-04-2010, 08:38 AM
You won't be able to get an All Star just by sending or combining expiring contracts.

You're going to need to throw in quality youth (of which we have none) and/or draft picks.

The short answer to your specific question is: no one.

All that expiring contracts by themselves will get is a player like Troy Murphy.

getting at most "a player like murphy" is probably an exaggeration (depending on how highly you rate murphy). but yeah, i agree with the sentiment that you won't get an all-star in his prime for just expiring contracts.

you can get a flawed player though, and if that player happens to fit well with the rest of your roster then his flaw might not matter as much. the model i have in my mind is the sheed trade that put the pistons over the top in '04. sheed is an excellent player but has his issues, which is why the pistons were able to acquire him for expiring contracts and a mid first round pick.

we can use another all-star at just about every position, but the glaring hole is at pg. obviously you won't get guys like chris paul or even devin harris for just expiring contracts. in other circumstances, a guy like rondo (poor shooter, suspect attitude) might be a viable trade target, but since he's the celtics only young star, the celtics would probably want more than expiring contracts for him.

2 possible all-star pg targets: arenas and baron davis. arenas has plenty of negatives - huge contract, injury history, and now possible legal problems. the wiz would probably be more than happy to trade him for our 2011 contracts right now. but then, he's a questionable fit for the team even when healthy, and the recent gun incident makes him an absolute no-no here. so that's a dead end.

baron davis, due to age, injury history, and contract, might also be obtainable. when motivated, i think he's still an impact player. an interesting question would be whether he would be motivated if traded to the pacers. regardless, he fits the profile of the kind of player we could obtain with our 2011 contracts.



Right now, it's impossible to predict what particular FA signing or trade they might make, but competently run teams with salary cap flexibility have always been able to make good moves. There are so many things they will be able to do in a couple years that they just can't do right now.


you won't hear the front office saying this, but this is probably a lot closer to the truth rather than having a firm 2011 plan. new trade opportunities are always cropping up - today's hot prospect might be tomorrow's overpaid contract. financial flexibility is a wonderful thing, but it's also a one-shot thing. once used, it's gone. the key is to be patient and wait for the right fit to come up before pulling the trigger. it's tough to be patient though if a team is losing as badly as the pacers are right now. it would be even tougher if 2011 rolls around without a decent trade or fa target in sight.

Speed
01-04-2010, 08:58 AM
I heard Obie say they can use the money for 2 starters too. I think this is possible. Using Troy as an example isn't good, cuz his numbers are starter level, but the actualized total of his impact is not.

Ya, you need a 2nd best player, but I think you shoot for that and if not, you upgrade from a bunch of 6th 7th best players to maybe a 3rd and 4th best type. Caron Butler keeps coming to mind. Okafor would be an upgrade as well, more as a solid force in the middle defensively. Antwain Jamison seems possible too.

The fear is you overpay for a "starter" or two and your back in same boat. Dunleavy and Murphy looked like starters too and they are ..... in the perfect situation. This ain't that.

At this point, if you can get two really really good starters, I think you can take a nice step forward.

Let's face it, though, unless they hit the lotto or rob someone blind in a trade, the 3 year plan isn't saying that they'll be contenders, it's saying they'll be in the playoffs. Disheartening yes, but a step forward, imo.

I think 5-7 years may be more what we are looking at, honestly.

Alot depends on how much better the existing young guys can improve, if not to stay here, but at least to become valuable assets down the line (ala the Garnett trade).

I'm not wavering on my support, I never will, unless they leave town (cringe), but I think I need to face it, they are bad team, even when healthy and have one tradeable assets.

That's not the recipe for a quick turn around, even with expiring contracts. That alone isn't enough.

HC
01-04-2010, 09:04 AM
AK47? We could move Murphy and Ford for him.

Speed
01-04-2010, 09:10 AM
AK47? We could move Murphy and Ford for him.

I think AK47 is Utah's Murphy. I could be wrong, but I think he has a huge contract and isn't producing what they expect.

wintermute
01-04-2010, 09:22 AM
I want Jarrett Jack. Again. Seriously.

i had the same thought :laugh: a do-over on jarrett jack a la mark jackson.

jarrett isn't that great but he may have been the best starting pg the pacers have had for a while. he'd still be useful as a combo guard should we get a better starting pg down the road. wonder if toronto would part with him for expirings - maybe if bosh walks next summer, since they supposedly wanted jack for his college connection to bosh.

Brad8888
01-04-2010, 10:39 AM
I just hope we can find some serviceable players for every position.

We need SG's and SF's. Our two best players, Dunleavy and Granger, may or may not ever be reliable from a health standpoint in our fast paced system. Head is a streaky scorer, which is better than nothing at all. Dahntay is Dahntay, and he is an OK backup on an average team if the team plays fundamentally sound basketball and can otherwise make up for his mistakes. Rush needs a fresh outlook, despite a slight uptick recently. He still cannot make shots consistently, which is strictly mental at this point. His form is good in my opinion, but to be a shooter you have to believe instinctively that every shot you take is going in. He plainly does not, and may not until he has a change in scenery. I truly hope this is totally wrong, because I think Brandon has many other positives about his game, but in our offensively oriented team structure, if you can't score consistently, you become a liability.

We don't have a center or true power forward unless we hire a big man coach to teach anyone we do have for those postions the footwork and positioning and shot selection at a professional level required to be a factor, and that is not going to happen any time soon.

Other than Price, Diener will be our backup point guard for next year because Ford will likely still be here and the franchise will only carry a certain amount of point guards. Unless Price has lots of time to develop this year (which may or may not happen, depends on Bird at this point who I would guess has finally forced O'B to bench Ford to see if Price has what it takes). So, a point guard is in order, as well.

This summer, our expirings become high value. Maybe we can get one star, Danny can return to health, we can get a couple of high draft picks (maybe trade for an additional first rounder) and fill out the roster at every position through trading our expirings coupled with some of our players who have "potential" this summer.

Maybe then we can aspire once more to the elusive lofty goal of a 36 win season once more. My prediction for 37 wins this season is totally laughable at this point because of every reason conceivable short of a brawl.

vnzla81
01-04-2010, 01:23 PM
players that the pacers might get for the expirings plus young players(Rush,AJ,TH or even Hibbert) are Michael Red, Kaman, Baron D, Kirk H, Tyrus T, G wallace, AK 47, Ramon Session, Iguadola, I will name more later.

Speed
01-04-2010, 01:39 PM
players that the pacers might get for the expirings plus young players(Rush,AJ,TH or even Hibbert) are Michael Red, Kaman, Baron D, Kirk H, Tyrus T, G wallace, AK 47, Ramon Session, Iguadola, I will name more later.

Not one guy on that list I would want to hitch my financial commitment wagon to. Not one.

Wallace and Igoudala, maybe, but you can't pay them like franchise guys, cuz they aren't and I think that's exactly what Igoudala is getting paid like currently.

Dr. Awesome
01-04-2010, 01:49 PM
Caron Butler
Josh Howard
Baron Davis
Chris Kaman
Andre Igoudala
Gilbert Arenas (NO)
Steve Nash
Rip Hamilton
Ben Gordon
Monta Ellis
Andre Miller/Greg Oden combo
Andres Nocioni
Elton Brand
Antawn Jamison
David West
Rajon Rondo


There are ALOT of exceptions though. I hope to have a real computer handy soon because I have been VERY anxious to make several threads about almost everything. I PD from PS3.

For example, to take on BDiddys contract, we get a 1st, a 2nd, and Al Thornton as well.

For example, if we get Brand, we get Speights and Thaddeus.

OR if we take on Peja Stojakavic, we get David West, Darren Collison, and two future top 3 protected 1sts.

Or just do straight up trades like West, Rondo, Harris, Ginobli, Parker, Carter, Gasol, or Ellis.

Most realistically as of now, Ellis, Igoudala, West, G Wallace, Calderon, Battier, and Jamison/Butler package.

Do you play PS3 online? If so, whats your PSN? I had PaCeR all throughout PS2 games, but someone took it on the PS3, now mine is aRmanTi.

CableKC
01-04-2010, 02:12 PM
players that the pacers might get for the expirings plus young players(Rush,AJ,TH or even Hibbert) are Michael Red, Kaman, Baron D, Kirk H, Tyrus T, G wallace, AK 47, Ramon Session, Iguadola, I will name more later.
Depending on the Player, Contract and the amount of guaranteed $$$ coming in and being sent out....I don't necessarily think that we'd have to give up an Asset ( Young Player and/or Draft Pick ) to get any of the Players that you mentioned above.

IMHO..........given the dire financial situation of many Teams...willingness to take on more guaranteed $$$ that you take out then send out is a "barganing chip" in the favor of the Team taking on the larger Contract. If the Team taking on the better talent ( or vice versa ) is worth the contract....then including Draft picks/Talent along with an Expiring contract is understandable. If there were a trade like Murphy for Iggy ( in NBA Fantasy land ), I can see the need to include additional "incentive" on the Pacers end....simply because we'd be getting the better player that has a reasonable contract given what he can do. But if we were to do some deal where we send out a Player like Murphy for Sessions or Redd....I'd consider including "incentive" to make the deal happen overpaying.

That's why I'm with count55 and d_c on this whole thread......trading contracts like Foster/Ford/MurphLeavy only make sense if we get a 2009-2010 Expiring Contract and/or we get Players with contracts that last beyond the 2010-2011 season that absolutely fit what we want to do with our future core of Players. Anything else is simply a desperate attempt to fix short-term problems ( as in get the Pacers back to the 8th Seed at all costs ) while creating Long-term SalaryCap/Financial in-flexibility.

Hicks
01-04-2010, 02:13 PM
Not one guy on that list I would want to hitch my financial commitment wagon to. Not one.

Wallace and Igoudala, maybe, but you can't pay them like franchise guys, cuz they aren't and I think that's exactly what Igoudala is getting paid like currently.

Well, we thought Danny was worth about $60mm over 5 years, so I'd be very surprised if we tried to get Andre or Gerald for much more than that.

CableKC
01-04-2010, 02:41 PM
Well, we thought Danny was worth about $60mm over 5 years, so I'd be very surprised if we tried to get Andre or Gerald for much more than that.
I'd move Murphy+BRush for Iggy without a 2nd throught. Iggy IMHO is worth it. Players like Monta and Iggy are IMHO on the same tier of Players as Granger and received contracts that was IMHO considered "fair market value" in a very cost-conscious market. I know that that they are not considered top tier Franchise level like players like Lebron, Kobe, Dwight or CP3......but Iggy's contract is IMHO not overpaid ( roughly 11-12 mil a year + 10% raise per year ) given what he's capable of doing.

d_c
01-04-2010, 02:54 PM
I'd move Murphy+BRush for Iggy without a 2nd throught. Iggy IMHO is worth it. Players like Monta and Iggy are IMHO on the same tier of Players as Granger and received contracts that was IMHO considered "fair market value" in a very cost-conscious market. I know that that they are not considered top tier Franchise level like players like Lebron, Kobe, Dwight or CP3......but Iggy's contract is IMHO not overpaid ( roughly 11-12 mil a year + 10% raise per year ) given what he's capable of doing.

Similarly, Pau Gasol is not a MAX player, but that's currently what he's getting paid with the Lakers (and he just signed a huge extension too IIRC).

But of course nobody is complaining because right now he's the equivalent of Rasheed Wallace from 2004: Not a franchise player but a guy who can push a really good team over the top. That's what he's doing for the Lakers. And nobody seems to be complaining about his salary because they're favored to win another championship and the owner is willing to pay the luxury tax.

Justin Tyme
01-04-2010, 03:16 PM
I'd move Murphy+BRush for Iggy without a 2nd throught. Iggy IMHO is worth it. Players like Monta and Iggy are IMHO on the same tier of Players as Granger and received contracts that was IMHO considered "fair market value" in a very cost-conscious market. I know that that they are not considered top tier Franchise level like players like Lebron, Kobe, Dwight or CP3......but Iggy's contract is IMHO not overpaid ( roughly 11-12 mil a year + 10% raise per year ) given what he's capable of doing.


From what I've read the last few years, Iggy isn't satisfied with being Robin to a Batman/Granger. He wants to be an Allstar and the leader. He's not good enough to be the Batman, but only a Robin.

Justin Tyme
01-04-2010, 03:26 PM
I have noticed Donte Greene of the Kings lately. Does he have length and athleticism? The Pacers need this and once Ellis and Garcia return off the DL list he'll be buried back to the bench. Could he be a player that would make the Pacers a really nice wing? It has been brought up many times about looking for a young'n with potential that isn't playing. Could this be Dante?

McKeyFan
01-04-2010, 07:07 PM
From what I've read the last few years, Iggy isn't satisfied with being Robin to a Batman/Granger. He wants to be an Allstar and the leader. He's not good enough to be the Batman, but only a Robin.

I like Iggy. Let him be Batman.

P.S. Is he a 2 or a 3?

odeez
01-04-2010, 07:14 PM
I like Iggy. Let him be Batman.

P.S. Is he a 2 or a 3?

I think he is a 2, but I don't see him coming here anytime soon. He is owed 60+ million on his current deal, don't see us going there.

vnzla81
01-04-2010, 09:23 PM
I was doing more research and I found more players that the pacers might be able to get either this year or next the list goes like this: C Butler, Jamison, Kmart, Al Horford, B Diaw,J Salmons, Nene,T prince,Q Richardson(for TJ :)),U Haslem(for Murphy:)),D west,Mo peterson,Jeff Green, B Bass, A Jhonson,JJ redick, A Miller,J Bayless, A Nocioni, F Garcia.

MikeDC
01-04-2010, 09:40 PM
Assuming you are correct, I have no idea on this btw, what do you think then that the plan is? Or do you think that the "plan" really has all just been a smoke and mirrors routine to give us hope and in reality they are hopeing to get lucky via the draft or other?

Because if what you are saying is true then I really am depressed because we may really be looking at 5 to 10 years of rebuilding and then really only rebuilding to mediocre not contenders.

There is no plan.

Justin Tyme
01-04-2010, 09:47 PM
I like Iggy. Let him be Batman.

P.S. Is he a 2 or a 3?


He's not Batman quality.

SG

Pacerized
01-04-2010, 10:19 PM
I think our best chance at bringing in the biggest impact player will be in a trade next year with our expiring contracts rather then to wait for them to expire and go after a free agent. If we could make such a trade and still be enough under the L.T. enough to spend the full MLE in 2011 that could make a real difference. I don't see us getting a young all star unless someone demands a trade from his team and then everyone would be concerned that we were bringing in a bad attitude. If nothing likes this happens, I've been saying for a while now that Chris Kamen may be as good of a target as we could hope for. I consider Kamen a boarder line all star at this point. He has the highest scoring average of any center in the league at 20.3 that goes along with 9.2 boards. I consider him a good but not great defender and I'd love to see him start at the 4 alongside Hibbert. I'd also like to see him share the court with Hans, neither one are shot blockers but they'd beat you to death if you tried to go at them in the post. Kamen makes Murphy money and I'd love for the Pacers to be stuck with his contract for the extra year and an extension at that price.

PaceBalls
01-04-2010, 10:43 PM
Out of all the players listed in this thread, the only two I would really be excited about that would be game changers for the Pacers is Al Horford and Rajon Rondo

Top choice would be Al Horford, I love his game, the few games I have seen him play.

Infinite MAN_force
01-04-2010, 10:47 PM
I think patience is a virtue. I just hope TPTB don't make some hasty trade next year with expiring contracts. You might get a "name" player but a player who is disgruntled or past their prime might not necessarily be what this team needs. As much as people say "No big free agents come to Indiana" I think the most prudent course of action will be to let said expiring contracts expire and see what happens... here is why.

The idea that these expiring contracts have so much value is misleading. A team under the cap can make trades without matching salary. So if the free agent period after 2011 passes and the team doesn't find the right player to sign, you can go into the season under the cap and retain the ability to make trades as if you still had said "expiring contracts". Being under the cap is like having a virtual expiring contract. People should not feel like we are "losing an asset" if we let them expire.

I just hope they don't get anxious and make a stupid trade that ends up backfiring and ruining our financial flexibility. The nice thing about free agency is that you don't have to give up any of your young talent like you would in a trade.

Pacerized
01-04-2010, 11:01 PM
In a worst case scenario that we don't first find a trade before the contracts expire, and then aren't able to find a free agent worth spending the money on, then I would agree that the team should try to enter the 2011 season under the cap. The problem is that we'll have only 5 players under contract going into the 2011 off season, and we'll have to fill those vacant positions with someone. The team could still enter the season under the cap, but not by nearly as much as they would be in the spring of 2011.


I think patience is a virtue. I just hope TPTB don't make some hasty trade next year with expiring contracts. You might get a "name" player but a player who is disgruntled or past their prime might not necessarily be what this team needs. As much as people say "No big free agents come to Indiana" I think the most prudent course of action will be to let said expiring contracts expire and see what happens... here is why.

The idea that these expiring contracts have so much value is misleading. A team under the cap can make trades without matching salary. So if the free agent period after 2011 passes and the team doesn't find the right player to sign, you can go into the season under the cap and retain the ability to make trades as if you still had said "expiring contracts". Being under the cap is like having a virtual expiring contract. People should not feel like we are "losing an asset" if we let them expire.

I just hope they don't get anxious and make a stupid trade that ends up backfiring and ruining our financial flexibility. The nice thing about free agency is that you don't have to give up any of your young talent like you would in a trade.

Hicks
01-04-2010, 11:39 PM
We'll at least have 8 players, Pacerized

1) Granger
2) Hibbert
3) Hansbrough
4) Price
5) Rush
6) D. Jones
7) 1st Round Pick 2010
8) 1st Round Pick 2011

And you never know, we might find someone we like in the second round again.

By the way, we might have Dallas' pick in the 2nd round as well. So we'll draft high and low in that round, for whatever that might be worth.

the jaddler
01-04-2010, 11:50 PM
I want Jarrett Jack. Again. Seriously.

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MikeDC
01-04-2010, 11:58 PM
We'll at least have 8 players, Pacerized

1) Granger
2) Hibbert
3) Hansbrough
4) Price
5) Rush
6) D. Jones
7) 1st Round Pick 2010
8) 1st Round Pick 2011

And you never know, we might find someone we like in the second round again.

By the way, we might have Dallas' pick in the 2nd round as well. So we'll draft high and low in that round, for whatever that might be worth.

I mean no disrespect when I say this, but unless 7) ends up being John Wall or something, that lineup is going to make people bleed from the eyes.

Hicks
01-05-2010, 12:06 AM
Well, the theory is we'll add 1-2 guys to go with that group that are better than most of those players. Assuming the rest (besides Jones) have improved at all by then (consistency, additions to their game, or both), I think they could truly surprise you.

esabyrn333
01-05-2010, 12:27 AM
I think if the Pacers could get Iggy they would jump all over that. Iggy & Danny on the wings would be sick.

I think some people on here are underestimating the guy I don't see Philly moving him unless they are getting a Danny Granger or better back in the trade.

CableKC
01-05-2010, 01:01 AM
I think he is a 2, but I don't see him coming here anytime soon. He is owed 60+ million on his current deal, don't see us going there.
I know that we're only talking in NBA Fantasyland here......cuz I know that this scenario is unlikely......but I don't see why we wouldn't consider adding a long-term contract like Iggy ( or Monta as I suggested in my other post ) as long as one of the Big 4 Contracts ( Murphy, Dunleavy, Ford or Foster ) is moved, the Player is worth his contract and he fits into our long-term plans.

I'd look at adding him as the 2011-2012 FA signing that we were planning to do anyway.

CableKC
01-05-2010, 01:10 AM
I was doing more research and I found more players that the pacers might be able to get either this year or next the list goes like this: C Butler, Jamison, Kmart, Al Horford, B Diaw,J Salmons, Nene,T prince,Q Richardson(for TJ :)),U Haslem(for Murphy:)),D west,Mo peterson,Jeff Green, B Bass, A Jhonson,JJ redick, A Miller,J Bayless, A Nocioni, F Garcia.
Scratch QRich, Haslem, David West and MoPete from the list. All of the Teams that they are on want to shed ( not gain ) 2010-2011 Salary. That is one of the reasons why I think that all of our 2010-2011 Expiring Contracts don't have as much trade value as most of you think they have. 1/4 of the Teams in the League don't want to add 2010-2011 Salary...while another 1/4 are close to the Luxury Tax and therefore could only send back comprable 2010-2011 Salary. Those type of trades don't help us since we will likely need to clear at least $6mil from the 2010-2011 SalaryCap to get under the Luxury Tax.

This is the reason why I want to move one of the Big 4 Contracts before this season's trade deadline....the truth is that the # of Teams that we can trade with that could take on any of our Big 4 Contracts would likely be asking for "sweetner" that we simply cannot afford to give up.

esabyrn333
01-05-2010, 01:17 AM
I know that we're only talking in NBA Fantasyland here......cuz I know that this scenario is unlikely......but I don't see why we wouldn't consider adding a long-term contract like Iggy ( or Monta as I suggested in my other post ) as long as one of the Big 4 Contracts ( Murphy, Dunleavy, Ford or Foster ) is moved, the Player is worth his contract and he fits into our long-term plans.

I'd look at adding him as the 2011-2012 FA signing that we were planning to do anyway.


I remember when Monta Ellis got drafted. I wanted us to draft him in the first round but then Danny fell to us.

I couldn't believe the kid fell to the second round and was about to have an heart attack prayin that we would trade up and get the kid.

I was stationed in Mississippi at the time and all of the local guys I was talking to said the kid walked on water in high school, being a local kid they where hoping he would go to LSU instead of the NBA they said he would be a scoring machine in a couple years.

Personally I would still love to have the kid on our team.

Danny, Monta and draft Greg Monroe and we would have one hell of a gulf coast core...It worked for the colts, Payton, Reggie and Addai are all from the gulf coast region

CableKC
01-05-2010, 01:27 AM
Personally I would still love to have the kid on our team.

Danny, Monta and draft Greg Monroe and we would have one hell of a gulf coast core...It worked for the colts, Payton, Reggie and Addai are all from the gulf coast region
Too bad that the Warriors wouldn't be interested in 2 of the Players that we'd want to move to get him ( MurphLeavy ) and the 3rd player ( Ford ) can't do the one thing that the Coach requires of him....hitting a 3pt shot.

Besides....Monta isn't going to be traded anymore.

d_c
01-05-2010, 02:55 AM
Besides....Monta isn't going to be traded anymore.

Seriously speaking, Nellie wouldn't have a problem trading him. But the front office would. They can't trade him for ticket selling purposes. At the very least they can't trade him simply to dump salary. Not now. They do that and their ticket sales would go kaput.

Monta to his credit has come back strong this year from a moderately serious injury and he's shown that he's better than ever.

Naptown_Seth
01-05-2010, 04:25 AM
Assuming you are correct, I have no idea on this btw, what do you think then that the plan is? Or do you think that the "plan" really has all just been a smoke and mirrors routine to give us hope and in reality they are hopeing to get lucky via the draft or other?

Because if what you are saying is true then I really am depressed because we may really be looking at 5 to 10 years of rebuilding and then really only rebuilding to mediocre not contenders.
I think the plan is to improve flexibility with more reasonable contracts. I don't think they have specifically targeted players to get with the Dun/Troy relief, but rather have been looking to get more "liquid" in order to make more options available to them as they come along.

The market is pretty dynamic, in no small part due to how other teams react to their own W-L and finances (not to mention personality issues), so it's risky/silly to hard target 2-3 key guys.


Personally I'd laser focus in on some potential "trash" bargins, in this case you currently have Gerald Henderson dumped in Charlotte and Weaver struggling to get time in OKC. I do think the draft spins things too, as Wall to NJ would seem to free up Harris.

Justin Tyme
01-05-2010, 01:32 PM
Personally I'd laser focus in on some potential "trash" bargins, in this case you currently have Gerald Henderson dumped in Charlotte and Weaver struggling to get time in OKC. I do think the draft spins things too, as Wall to NJ would seem to free up Harris.


Donte Greene is another one.

I liked Ajinca, and he had some impressive workouts, IIRC. He seems to be in Brown's doghouse. Target Henderson and Ajinca for Diener's expiring and either Rush or Solo.

Speed
01-05-2010, 01:37 PM
I think I've heard that Ajinca is just light years away physically and mentally, I could be mistaken, though. I think it's the right idea though.

Greene, Henderson, and Weaver are all guys I'd be interested in though. How about Hansbroughs teammate who can shoot lights out, Wayne Ellington.

Skaut_Ech
01-05-2010, 02:13 PM
The market is pretty dynamic, in no small part due to how other teams react to their own W-L and finances (not to mention personality issues), so it's risky/silly to hard target 2-3 key guys.


Personally I'd laser focus in on some potential "trash" bargins, in this case you currently have Gerald Henderson dumped in Charlotte and Weaver struggling to get time in OKC. I do think the draft spins things too, as Wall to NJ would seem to free up Harris.

Speaking of which, I just read an article where the words is out that the Jazz want to shake things up and no one is untouchable, save Deron. I'm a big fan of "trash bargains". Just because a guy is on the bench, it's doesn't mean he can't play. Jazz would supposedly be agreeable, and have been to moving Kirilenko, but in terms of bargain guys, I DO like Koufos and Fesenko.

Also, The Wizards are supposedly mulling "blowing things up", so to speak. They have a young, athletic guy I love in Javale McGee, but they won't give him any PT, although they profess to love him. They've got some nice trash bargains, too.

Speed, I've been reading the same thing about Ajinca. There's war and then there's RAW.

Justin, Donte Green is going to be a stud, with proper coaching. His game has grown light years and he's been playing almost every position on the floor save center. Wouldn't hurt my feelings to snag him.

I'm really hoping we can and do pull a Jermaine O'Neal and snag someone languishing on a bench for peanuts. For some reason, I'm a little optimistic that the fear of the cap might make for an advantageous deal. Don't ask me why.

Deandre Jordan? Jon Brockman? There's some curiousities out there.