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View Full Version : Pacers lose to Knicks-Post Game



imawhat
01-03-2010, 07:49 PM
Not too early to start this.

The Pacers have been embarrassed tonight, but I have to say they looked exhausted about two minutes into the game.

Have to credit the Knicks for firing on all cylinders. Also, a lot of credit goes to D'Antoni and his coaching/scouting staff. The Knicks exposed every one of our flaws tonight. Very impressive.

As tired as our team is, there's no excuse for this. Watson was atrocious.

Strange stat of the night: Hibbert-7 assists, 0 turnovers.

Thesterovic
01-03-2010, 07:53 PM
LOL. This one hurts. Can't say that I thought that we would win, but to willingly bend over and take it in the *** hurts after doing it 5-6 times.

joew8302
01-03-2010, 07:54 PM
Not too early to start this.

The Pacers have been embarrassed tonight, but I have to say they looked exhausted about two minutes into the game.

Have to credit the Knicks for firing on all cylinders. Also, a lot of credit goes to D'Antoni and his coaching/scouting staff. The Knicks exposed every one of our flaws tonight. Very impressive.

As tired as our team is, there's no excuse for this. Watson was atrocious.

Strange stat of the night: Hibbert-7 assists, 0 turnovers.

You could have started this after the first quarter and been alright, no worries.

colts19
01-03-2010, 08:07 PM
It seems strange to me that none of the troy haters have tried to explain why we are giving up all these points and troy is not even playing. I guess maybe its time to realize troy murphy's defense isn't the main problem with this team.

I think it is time to just blame the coaching staff. We look really bad.

Spirit
01-03-2010, 08:08 PM
Wow I missed this entire game, looks like I didn't miss much besides Diener's return. How did he look?

BornReady
01-03-2010, 08:08 PM
the knicks game mvp: the pacers

Naptown_Seth
01-03-2010, 08:09 PM
Not a huge shocker as the thin front line led DJones to playing a lot of physical ball and the other 3 bigs getting serious tough minutes last night. They looked gassed down the stretch vs Minny, then got on a plane for NY to play again still minus a big or two (you don't need 6 normally, but 4 or 5 is reasonable).

Watson is getting run way too much. I agree that Ford has issues and that it's good to start getting Price some PT, but no Ford at all seems a bit extreme. Then again Diener has returned so maybe it's not so critical.

Rush was gassed for sure as was Solo. No lift on shots or inside play.


It's good to get the kids in, but if you are truly going without Troy or Ford, and have Foster, Granger and Tyler out then your depth is pretty thin. Say you flip up some roles here, say McBob with Troy and Price with Ford. Well tonight would be when those non-rotation guys would normally play a bit with fresh legs, shine and help carry the main guys along.

The problem here is we are now using those guys and have nothing behind them to give them their own boost.

I mean it's a bit weird that you don't play Ford at all tonight unless there were some words behind the scene and this is an unpublished suspension rather than a rotation choice. It's a 40 pt game, you normally clear the bench and toss your normal rotation minutes out the door partially to give guys extra rest for the next one.

D-BONE
01-03-2010, 08:10 PM
Inexcusable margin of defeat regardless of circumstances.

Spirit
01-03-2010, 08:13 PM
Should we give Diener a look as starting point guard? He certainly has something at point guard that nobody else on our roster has - stability. As his stats show, he never turns the ball over. Sure his defense isn't great (it is scrappy) but everything he does on offense is a plus, especially if his shot is falling.

I'm NOT saying we should do this right now, but if he looks good and his toe isn't bothering him, he definitely deserves a look.

imawhat
01-03-2010, 08:18 PM
It seems strange to me that none of the troy haters have tried to explain why we are giving up all these points and troy is not even playing. I guess maybe its time to realize troy murphy's defense isn't the main problem with this team.

This is what I feared would happen.


There are a lot of problems with our defense right now. Dunleavy and Head on the wings doesn't cut it. Solo, Roy and Josh are foul prone. It's very easy to pick on our team right now because there are so many ways to attack us. Adding Murphy to the mix only gives opponents one more option.

Thesterovic
01-03-2010, 08:19 PM
Diener tees up his jumpers now.

Hoop
01-03-2010, 08:23 PM
That was painful to watch, but I still enjoyed not having to watch Ford or Murphy. Yes I said it.

Sookie
01-03-2010, 08:24 PM
um wow..didn't expect that. I thought the team would at least show a little effort.

Watson, Watson was tired. Clearly. And you can't expect and aging point guard, who has played way too many minutes in the past couple of games, including the game last night, he's not going to perform well.

They scored 89 points, it was the defense that was an issue. But when you have Rush guarding a power forward and Price guarding a 6'10 player ect..(who has to absolutely hate the Garden at this point), it shows how much the coach cares about defense.

However, the offense should run through Hibbert. When quick shots go up, misses, it just made NY score easier. If we slow the game down, and run the offense through Hibbert, they'll be a better defensive team too.

Overall just ick. We might ahve gotten our Murphy excuse though, rebounding. Hopefully, Tyler comes back first, and he can rebound..if not, we'll have Murphy.

Ford, I'm hoping this didn't give JOB a Ford excuse either.

Granted, it's not like we haven't lost by around 40 before, we did against Miami too.

Anyway..on to Orlando on Tuesday..oi..

Brad8888
01-03-2010, 08:24 PM
Go Pacers...

or don't, which would be preferable, I guess.

Time to go for some shot clock era records for field goal percentages, average margins of victory, and more...for our opponents.

Hit the John Wall Sweepstakes Wall--HARD!

Go Magic?!?!?!?!?!

BlueNGold
01-03-2010, 08:25 PM
It seems strange to me that none of the troy haters have tried to explain why we are giving up all these points and troy is not even playing. I guess maybe its time to realize troy murphy's defense isn't the main problem with this team.

I think it is time to just blame the coaching staff. We look really bad.

This game was a product of having no bench at all and playing on a back-to-back against a team that just beat the Hawks and have gone 9-5 the last 14. Combine that with the fact it is one of the worst matchups in the league because we have no 6'7"-6'9" athletic players on this team...and New York has several that are very experienced. Combine that with David Lee being one of the worst match-ups for Hibbert in the league.

None of this means you should play Troy Murphy 35 minutes a game and expect him to help in most games. The fact is, this team is still 6-3 without our starting PF in the lineup.

Edit: but yes, the coaching staff failed miserably to employ an offensive scheme that could take advantage of a huge mismatch on our side. Roy should be able to score or get some great ball movement going off double teams....but they obviously do not stress that style of play.

speakout4
01-03-2010, 08:30 PM
Not a huge shocker as the thin front line led DJones to playing a lot of physical ball and the other 3 bigs getting serious tough minutes last night. They looked gassed down the stretch vs Minny, then got on a plane for NY to play again still minus a big or two (you don't need 6 normally, but 4 or 5 is reasonable).

Watson is getting run way too much. I agree that Ford has issues and that it's good to start getting Price some PT, but no Ford at all seems a bit extreme. Then again Diener has returned so maybe it's not so critical.

Rush was gassed for sure as was Solo. No lift on shots or inside play.


It's good to get the kids in, but if you are truly going without Troy or Ford, and have Foster, Granger and Tyler out then your depth is pretty thin. Say you flip up some roles here, say McBob with Troy and Price with Ford. Well tonight would be when those non-rotation guys would normally play a bit with fresh legs, shine and help carry the main guys along.

The problem here is we are now using those guys and have nothing behind them to give them their own boost.

I mean it's a bit weird that you don't play Ford at all tonight unless there were some words behind the scene and this is an unpublished suspension rather than a rotation choice. It's a 40 pt game, you normally clear the bench and toss your normal rotation minutes out the door partially to give guys extra rest for the next one.
The ridiculous mentality that a guy who isn't doing well just disappears instead of having his minutes greatly diminished shows the kind of guy JOB is. He just wanted to humiliate Ford rather than help the team. So the team was more embarrassed by having Ford sit.
It could have been anticipated that once the team wrapped up the win last night they would need some energy tonight.

Justin Tyme
01-03-2010, 08:37 PM
Ugly ugly game. 5 out of 30 3's for 16%. I realize many were shot trying to cut the large deficent, but 16%. I was really surprised the Pacers FG % was 40%. It seemed a lot lower than that. Lets hope the Pacers give Orlando a better game than they just gave the Knicks. Just a disgusting game to have watched.

MrSparko
01-03-2010, 08:38 PM
Our "winning" combination strikes again!

OrganizedConfusion
01-03-2010, 08:40 PM
Our "winning" combination strikes again!

Hansbrough didn't play so it doesn't count. He adds so much to the group. :D

gummy
01-03-2010, 08:41 PM
The guys looked totally gassed all game and we had some weird match-ups out there too in terms of people playing out of position on both sides of the ball. Painful to watch.

CableKC
01-03-2010, 08:45 PM
Wow I missed this entire game, looks like I didn't miss much besides Diener's return. How did he look?
I think that we found the problem.......without Diener we won 29% of our games ( 9-22 ) games......with Diener we have won 0% of our games.

WoodyHayes78
01-03-2010, 08:59 PM
Wow, we deserve better than this.

jhondog28
01-03-2010, 09:03 PM
um wow..didn't expect that. I thought the team would at least show a little effort.

Watson, Watson was tired. Clearly. And you can't expect and aging point guard, who has played way too many minutes in the past couple of games, including the game last night, he's not going to perform well.

They scored 89 points, it was the defense that was an issue. But when you have Rush guarding a power forward and Price guarding a 6'10 player ect..(who has to absolutely hate the Garden at this point), it shows how much the coach cares about defense.

However, the offense should run through Hibbert. When quick shots go up, misses, it just made NY score easier. If we slow the game down, and run the offense through Hibbert, they'll be a better defensive team too.

Overall just ick. We might ahve gotten our Murphy excuse though, rebounding. Hopefully, Tyler comes back first, and he can rebound..if not, we'll have Murphy.

Ford, I'm hoping this didn't give JOB a Ford excuse either.

Granted, it's not like we haven't lost by around 40 before, we did against Miami too.

Anyway..on to Orlando on Tuesday..oi..

Ok here is the problem. Our players were gassed I will give you that. But NYs bigs absolutely manhandled Hibbert. Our team had to adapt to what NY was doing. Hibbert is not quick nor athletic enough to take their bigs. Coach D knew we were going to try and run the plays through Hibbert. He collapsed both Lee and Gallinari on him and Hibbert couldnt do anything. He is an average to barely above average center. I know some posters love Hibbert, but to me that says more to how actually bad we are than anything else. Hibbert on most teams would be like a Dampier without the rebounding. On this team he is the focus. I am not trying to be a Debbie Downer but I call it like I see it and what I see is a young player who relies on pure emotion to have a good game and when he gets taken by more athletic guys he just folds.

jmoney2584
01-03-2010, 09:23 PM
Ok here is the problem. Our players were gassed I will give you that. But NYs bigs absolutely manhandled Hibbert. Our team had to adapt to what NY was doing. Hibbert is not quick nor athletic enough to take their bigs. Coach D knew we were going to try and run the plays through Hibbert. He collapsed both Lee and Gallinari on him and Hibbert couldnt do anything. He is an average to barely above average center. I know some posters love Hibbert, but to me that says more to how actually bad we are than anything else. Hibbert on most teams would be like a Dampier without the rebounding. On this team he is the focus. I am not trying to be a Debbie Downer but I call it like I see it and what I see is a young player who relies on pure emotion to have a good game and when he gets taken by more athletic guys he just folds.

You gotta give Hibbert the customary "three-year big man development" plan. His offense is showing a lot of promise, and he is surely playing in an offensive system that is not suited for his strengths to shine through. He'll pan out better than "average," not worried about that at all. The fact that he cares as much as he does and seems to have such a good work ethic to compliment that positive energy, is more than enough for me currently. All of our young guys have me intrigued in some way. It's not like we're going to be good this year, we know that by now. Let's just let the bright spots give us hope for the future. I'll form my definitive opinion on this team after this summer when the direction is more clear, the way this year is going we really have no idea what our team may even look like for next season, give it some time. I'm not condoning losing, but i'm not blind enough to miss the positives in our young core. Look out for AJ if we ever get a decent coach.

Sookie
01-03-2010, 09:23 PM
Ok here is the problem. Our players were gassed I will give you that. But NYs bigs absolutely manhandled Hibbert. Our team had to adapt to what NY was doing. Hibbert is not quick nor athletic enough to take their bigs. Coach D knew we were going to try and run the plays through Hibbert. He collapsed both Lee and Gallinari on him and Hibbert couldnt do anything. He is an average to barely above average center. I know some posters love Hibbert, but to me that says more to how actually bad we are than anything else. Hibbert on most teams would be like a Dampier without the rebounding. On this team he is the focus. I am not trying to be a Debbie Downer but I call it like I see it and what I see is a young player who relies on pure emotion to have a good game and when he gets taken by more athletic guys he just folds.

He could have passed out. And Hibbert only got ten touches, he had 7 assists and zero turnovers..that means he did in fact know what to do with it.

We should have tried to force NY to play "our game" *which, our game, should be feed Hibby* Instead of trying to run with them..when we played a game last night..

But no, we go small. The post rotation should have simply been Hibbert/Josh/Solo. I'm sorry, but a Solo/Hibbert front court is better than a Shooting guard/Center front court.

ksuttonjr76
01-03-2010, 09:24 PM
Ok here is the problem. Our players were gassed I will give you that. But NYs bigs absolutely manhandled Hibbert. Our team had to adapt to what NY was doing. Hibbert is not quick nor athletic enough to take their bigs. Coach D knew we were going to try and run the plays through Hibbert. He collapsed both Lee and Gallinari on him and Hibbert couldnt do anything. He is an average to barely above average center. I know some posters love Hibbert, but to me that says more to how actually bad we are than anything else. Hibbert on most teams would be like a Dampier without the rebounding. On this team he is the focus. I am not trying to be a Debbie Downer but I call it like I see it and what I see is a young player who relies on pure emotion to have a good game and when he gets taken by more athletic guys he just folds.

He did have 7 assists, so I can't complain. I still believe he's the key for Indiana once Granger comes back.

jhondog28
01-03-2010, 09:28 PM
You gotta give Hibbert the customary "three-year big man development" plan. His offense is showing a lot of promise, and he is surely playing in an offensive system that is not suited for his strengths to shine through. He'll pan out better than "average," not worried about that at all. The fact that he cares as much as he does and seems to have such a good work ethic to compliment that positive energy, is more than enough for me currently. All of our young guys have me intrigued in some way. It's not like we're going to be good this year, we know that by now. Let's just let the bright spots give us hope for the future. I'll form my definitive opinion on this team after this summer when the direction is more clear, the way this year is going we really have no idea what our team may even look like for next season, give it some time. I'm not condoning losing, but i'm not blind enough to miss the positives in our young core. Look out for AJ if we ever get a decent coach.

I never did question his work ethic or desire to become a good player. He may well develop into a good player, but his weaknesses will keep him from developing into anything more than a Dampier. He has very slow foot speed. Once he gets stopped he loses confidence and loses his coordination and tends to travel a ton. Without good perimiter defenders he is a foul away from going to the bench for tons of minutes. He has to play in a half court style. He is not a very good rebounder for his heigth. Not to mention with more and more 7 footers coming into the league he will need to develop things he just cannot do. Such has lateral quickness and leaping ability to become successful.

jhondog28
01-03-2010, 09:31 PM
He could have passed out. And Hibbert only got ten touches, he had 7 assists and zero turnovers..that means he did in fact know what to do with it.

We should have tried to force NY to play "our game" *which, our game, should be feed Hibby* Instead of trying to run with them..when we played a game last night..

But no, we go small. The post rotation should have simply been Hibbert/Josh/Solo. I'm sorry, but a Solo/Hibbert front court is better than a Shooting guard/Center front court.

We dont have the heigth to rebound the ball. When your 7 footer is not a good rebounder it is hard to slow the other team down. They grab the rebound and run. You want to play half court with Hibbert as the focus against David Lee? That to me should not be the game plan. Lee would have demolished Hibbert in the paint. He may be shorter but is stronger and a better athlete. If we went half court they would have immediatley targeted Hibbert in the paint and taken him out of the game with fouls.

jhondog28
01-03-2010, 09:32 PM
Listen I like Hibbert but I am not as high on him as most people are on this board. To me this team is so bad that he looks so much better than he actually is.

S.R.E.C.A.P
01-03-2010, 09:36 PM
Here is a note from rotoworld, fantasy website.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NBA&id=1153


Nate Robinson-G-Knicks Jan. 3 - 9:13 pm et

Nate Robinson followed his 41-point performance on Friday with a 2-of-11 shooting dud, going for six points, six rebounds, and three assists in 22 minutes as the Knicks destroyed the Pacers on Sunday.
The sad part for Nate's owners is that he may have gotten as much run as he did only because the Knicks carried a massive 48-point lead at one point, but we're not going to judge him until they play a real NBA team. What is certain is that Friday did not mark the beginning of the Lil' Him era just yet.

Ouch!

ksuttonjr76
01-03-2010, 09:56 PM
I never did question his work ethic or desire to become a good player. He may well develop into a good player, but his weaknesses will keep him from developing into anything more than a Dampier. He has very slow foot speed. Once he gets stopped he loses confidence and loses his coordination and tends to travel a ton. Without good perimiter defenders he is a foul away from going to the bench for tons of minutes. He has to play in a half court style. He is not a very good rebounder for his heigth. Not to mention with more and more 7 footers coming into the league he will need to develop things he just cannot do. Such has lateral quickness and leaping ability to become successful.

Man, do you make mostly negative comments? It seems like every post I read of yours is never positive. Patrick Ewing, Yao Ming, Dikemebe Mutombo, Rik Smits, and Kevin McHale had good to great careers as centers, but they're nothing what I would consider "fleet of foot". Also, Hibbert has all the makings of being a great center for Indiana if JOB runs some of the offense through him. Some 2nd year numbers for current centers....

Roy Hibbert: 10.5 PPG, 6 RPG, and 1.7 BPG
Yao Ming: 17.5 PPG, 9.0 RPG, and 1.90 BPG
Al Horford: 11.5 PPG, 9.3 RPG, and 1.4 BPG
Kendrick Perkins: 2.5 PPG, 1.4 RPG, and .20 BPG
Tyson Chandler: 9.2 PPG, 6.9 RPG, and 1.40 BPG
Andrew Bynum: 7.8 PPG, 5.9 RPG, and 1.60 BPG
Brad Miller: 7.7 PPG, 5.4 RPG, and .60 BPG
Joakim Noah: 6.7 PPG, 7.5 RPG, and 1.4 BPG
Erick Dampier: 11.8 PPG, 8.7 RPG, and 1.7 BPG
Nene Hilario: 11.8 PPG, 6.5 RPG, and .50 BPG
Andrew Bogut: 12.3 PPG, 8.8 RPG, and .50 BPG

Have you tell the story, you make it sound like Hibbert is going to be a complete bust. IMHO, he's doing really well considering he's in an offense that basically relys on jumpshots and 3's, then an inside/outside game.

Kuq_e_Zi91
01-03-2010, 09:57 PM
We dont have the heigth to rebound the ball. When your 7 footer is not a good rebounder it is hard to slow the other team down. They grab the rebound and run. You want to play half court with Hibbert as the focus against David Lee? That to me should not be the game plan. Lee would have demolished Hibbert in the paint. He may be shorter but is stronger and a better athlete. If we went half court they would have immediatley targeted Hibbert in the paint and taken him out of the game with fouls.

I could not disagree with this more. You can't possibly be telling me that Hibbert can have good games against the likes of Al Jefferson, Marc Gasol, Joakim Noah, Brook Lopez and Andrew Bogut but he would get "demolished" by David Lee.

BlueNGold
01-03-2010, 10:01 PM
I could not disagree with this more. You can't possibly be telling me that Hibbert can have good games against the likes of Al Jefferson, Marc Gasol, Joakim Noah, Brook Lopez and Andrew Bogut but he would get "demolished" by David Lee.

David Lee is the best player on a team that is better than the Pacers. There is no question that Lee is significantly better than Hibbert...and he might be better than Granger. ...and Danny be my fav Pacer.

jhondog28
01-03-2010, 10:07 PM
Man, do you make mostly negative comments? It seems like every post I read of yours is never positive. Patrick Ewing, Yao Ming, Dikemebe Mutombo, Rik Smits, and Kevin McHale had good to great careers as centers, but they're nothing what I would consider "fleet of foot". Also, Hibbert has all the makings of being a great center for Indiana if JOB runs some of the offense through him. Some 2nd year numbers for current centers....

Roy Hibbert: 10.5 PPG, 6 RPG, and 1.7 BPG
Yao Ming: 17.5 PPG, 9.0 RPG, and 1.90 BPG
Al Horford: 11.5 PPG, 9.3 RPG, and 1.4 BPG
Kendrick Perkins: 2.5 PPG, 1.4 RPG, and .20 BPG
Tyson Chandler: 9.2 PPG, 6.9 RPG, and 1.40 BPG
Andrew Bynum: 7.8 PPG, 5.9 RPG, and 1.60 BPG
Brad Miller: 7.7 PPG, 5.4 RPG, and .60 BPG
Joakim Noah: 6.7 PPG, 7.5 RPG, and 1.4 BPG
Erick Dampier: 11.8 PPG, 8.7 RPG, and 1.7 BPG
Nene Hilario: 11.8 PPG, 6.5 RPG, and .50 BPG
Andrew Bogut: 12.3 PPG, 8.8 RPG, and .50 BPG

Have you tell the story, you make it sound like Hibbert is going to be a complete bust. IMHO, he's doing really well considering he's in an offense that basically relys on jumpshots and 3's, then an inside/outside game.

The Pacers just lost by almost 50 and you think I need to post some positive thoughts? Seriously? I always try and find the good with the Pacers. What good things are you seeing? Honestly? I am being a realist here. That is what I see in Hibbert. He is right now there best player. That to me does not mean is a great player. That means he is the best player on an awful team. What i have read is that most people have annointed him as untradeable. That to me is crazy. He has had some really good games, but so has Dunleavy. Shoot he has put up 30pts on many occassions. Most people think that Dunleavy would not even start on most teams. But I will end it with a couple positives. Hans I love the guy I wanted him from the get go. I was hoping we would draft him and I really like what I see. I also like McRoberts off the bench and would like him to get more PT. I like Price and I like Foster. In fact I started a thread during all this negativity going on asking if Hibbert and Hans were going to be selected into the Freshman Sophmore game. So before you start criticizing maybe you should do so more research into my posts and threads.

ksuttonjr76
01-03-2010, 10:07 PM
We dont have the heigth to rebound the ball. When your 7 footer is not a good rebounder it is hard to slow the other team down. They grab the rebound and run. You want to play half court with Hibbert as the focus against David Lee? That to me should not be the game plan. Lee would have demolished Hibbert in the paint. He may be shorter but is stronger and a better athlete. If we went half court they would have immediatley targeted Hibbert in the paint and taken him out of the game with fouls.

Hibbert is one of the better offensive rebounders in the league, and why should we be so concern what David Lee would do to Hibbert instead of the other way around? Why should Indiana ALWAYS be the team to adjust instead of making the other team to us? When given touches, Hibbert can make things happen as evident in his 7 assists although he didn't score a lot. Hibbert's foul trouble is caused by him wanting to protect the paint, because he's alongside a PF that can't help or perimeter players who can't stop the dribble drive in the 1st place. If this was a trackable stat, I'm pretty sure that Indiana leads the league in allowed dribble pentration and drives into the paint. I rather see him foul out trying to protect the paint on block attempts, instead of being scared of foul trouble all the time.

“The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe that you might block every shot.” - Bill Russell -

jhondog28
01-03-2010, 10:08 PM
I could not disagree with this more. You can't possibly be telling me that Hibbert can have good games against the likes of Al Jefferson, Marc Gasol, Joakim Noah, Brook Lopez and Andrew Bogut but he would get "demolished" by David Lee.

Lee in my opinion is better than every guy you just mentioned.

vnzla81
01-03-2010, 10:13 PM
Lee in my opinion is better than every guy you just mentioned.

you are crazy..........

Kuq_e_Zi91
01-03-2010, 10:13 PM
David Lee is the best player on a team that is better than the Pacers. There is no question that Lee is significantly better than Hibbert...and he might be better than Granger. ...and Danny be my fav Pacer.

That doesn't mean you can't let Roy go at him, though. I don't think Hibbert is better than any of the guys I mentioned in my previous post but that didn't stop him from having solid games.

I'm tired of seeing brick after brick after brick. I'd rather see Roy get 30 touches than see the rest of the team jack up 30 threes. I bet you Roy converts more than 6 of those opportunities.

jhondog28
01-03-2010, 10:14 PM
Hibbert is one of the better offensive rebounders in the league, and why should we be so concern what David Lee would do to Hibbert instead of the other way around? Why should Indiana ALWAYS be the team to adjust instead of making the other team to us? When given touches, Hibbert can make things happen as evident in his 7 assists although he didn't score a lot. Hibbert's foul trouble is caused by him wanting to protect the paint, because he's alongside a PF that can't help or perimeter players who can't stop the dribble drive in the 1st place. If this was a trackable stat, I'm pretty sure that Indiana leads the league in allowed dribble pentration and drives into the paint. I rather see him foul out trying to protect the paint on block attempts, instead of being scared of foul trouble all the time.

“The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe that you might block every shot.” - Bill Russell -

Sutton I am not trying to pick on you dude it is just I got nothing to do right now and we are clearly on opposite ends of the world on this topic so it san interesting conversation. The reason why we have to adjust to the Knicks is because they have the talent to dictate what they want to do with our players. We are not there yet. They can force the tempo. They have a rich mans Troy Murphy in Gallinari. They have a force in David Lee. They have speed in Nate Robinson. They have a veteran point guard who can shoot threes and distributes the ball in Duhon. They also have a good rotation while we keep changing line-ups. How can we posisbly dictate what they are going to do on defense when our team hardly knows what they are going to do on offense.

BlueNGold
01-03-2010, 10:14 PM
Hibbert is one of the better offensive rebounders in the league, and why should we be so concern what David Lee would do to Hibbert instead of the other way around? Why should Indiana ALWAYS be the team to adjust instead of making the other team to us? When given touches, Hibbert can make things happen as evident in his 7 assists although he didn't score a lot. Hibbert's foul trouble is caused by him wanting to protect the paint, because he's alongside a PF that can't help or perimeter players who can't stop the dribble drive in the 1st place. If this was a trackable stat, I'm pretty sure that Indiana leads the league in allowed dribble pentration and drives into the paint. I rather see him foul out trying to protect the paint on block attempts, instead of being scared of foul trouble all the time.

“The idea is not to block every shot. The idea is to make your opponent believe that you might block every shot.” - Bill Russell -

I would like to believe that throwing it into Roy would result in a crisp pass to the perimeter with a made 3....or a dunk over David Lee. In fact, I'd advocate trying that over the gar-bage we saw tonight. But the more I've thought about it, I don't think Hibby can remotely guard Lee on the other side. David Lee can drain the 17 footer all night...shooting 80% from the floor if left unguarded...and when Hibby comes out to guard him...then Lee blows by him for an easy bucket or an and-one. I wish it weren't true...but I think the match-up would still favor them on a good day.

BlueNGold
01-03-2010, 10:15 PM
That doesn't mean you can't let Roy go at him, though. I don't think Hibbert is better than any of the guys I mentioned in my previous post but that didn't stop him from having solid games.

I'm tired of seeing brick after brick after brick. I'd rather see Roy get 30 touches than see the rest of the team jack up 30 threes. I bet you Roy converts more than 6 of those opportunities.

I'm tempted to agree with you...but honestly, I don't think I can. See my prev. post.

jhondog28
01-03-2010, 10:16 PM
That doesn't mean you can't let Roy go at him, though. I don't think Hibbert is better than any of the guys I mentioned in my previous post but that didn't stop him from having solid games.

I'm tired of seeing brick after brick after brick. I'd rather see Roy get 30 touches than see the rest of the team jack up 30 threes. I bet you Roy converts more than 6 of those opportunities.

I will agree it is hard to watch the 3 pters just keep flying and hitting nothing but rim.

jhondog28
01-03-2010, 10:17 PM
you are crazy..........

that is quite a possi:rolleyes:bility.

BlueNGold
01-03-2010, 10:19 PM
BTW, the entire problem is that David Lee scores the ball with extreme efficiency...and when Hibbert is guarding him it's like shooting in an open gym. I don't like it either, but it's true.

ksuttonjr76
01-03-2010, 10:20 PM
The Pacers just lost by almost 50 and you think I need to post some positive thoughts? Seriously? I always try and find the good with the Pacers. What good things are you seeing? Honestly? I am being a realist here. That is what I see in Hibbert. He is right now there best player. That to me does not mean is a great player. That means he is the best player on an awful team. What i have read is that most people have annointed him as untradeable. That to me is crazy. He has had some really good games, but so has Dunleavy. Shoot he has put up 30pts on many occassions. Most people think that Dunleavy would not even start on most teams. But I will end it with a couple positives. Hans I love the guy I wanted him from the get go. I was hoping we would draft him and I really like what I see. I also like McRoberts off the bench and would like him to get more PT. I like Price and I like Foster. In fact I started a thread during all this negativity going on asking if Hibbert and Hans were going to be selected into the Freshman Sophmore game. So before you start criticizing maybe you should do so more research into my posts and threads.

You're not being realist. Hibbert is posting descent numbers for a 2nd year Georgetown center in a TERRIBLE offense where it's "shoot the 1st available shot". What you're not seeing is that Hibbert made HUGE strives from his rookie season in offensive moves and defensive positioning. That tells me that Hibbert will work during the offseason to improve game. History has proven that most championship teams need a strong inside presence, and Hibbert has that potential. Historically, NBA players get bigger, stronger over time, so by his 4th year I envision Hibbert over 300 pounds with much needed upper body strength. Truth be told is there a better 2nd year center that has Hibbert's upside? As I side note, I did read your previous posts in other threads, and most of the them were negative in my opinion.

jhondog28
01-03-2010, 10:24 PM
You're not being realist. Hibbert is posting descent numbers for a 2nd year Georgetown center in a TERRIBLE offense where it's "shoot the 1st available shot". What you're not seeing is that Hibbert made HUGE strives from his rookie season in offensive moves and defensive positioning. That tells me that Hibbert will work during the offseason to improve game. History has proven that most championship teams need a strong inside presence, and Hibbert has that potential. Historically, NBA players get bigger, stronger over time, so by his 4th year I envision Hibbert over 300 pounds with much needed upper body strength. Truth be told is there a better 2nd year center that has Hibbert's upside? As I side note, I did read your previous posts in other threads, and most of the them were negative in my opinion.

:deadhorse

Shade
01-03-2010, 10:29 PM
I have officially had enough. This team is a complete and utter failure. We'd better get a very high draft pick and have a huge acquisition planned for next season.

NapTonius Monk
01-03-2010, 10:30 PM
David Lee is the best player on a team that is better than the Pacers. There is no question that Lee is significantly better than Hibbert...and he might be better than Granger. ...and Danny be my fav Pacer.

:eek: David Lee is good, but I'd like to see if he'd put up these same numbers in another offense. Better than Danny...I dunno about that.

ksuttonjr76
01-03-2010, 10:30 PM
How can we posisbly dictate what they are going to do on defense when our team hardly knows what they are going to do on offense.

I will agree you with on that, and maybe that's more the problem than anything else. JOB doesn't know what he wants from his players, and the players don't know he wants from them. He needs to choose a starting lineup and stick with it for the entire season minus injuries. As a player, that would frustrate me having to learn a "new Player" or not knowing who I will be playing with until gameday. Especially, if I've been playing alongside player "a" in practice, then game night I'm playing with player "b". JOB is too busy trying to find an instant winning lineup that damaging the team chemistry, and when he did, he broke it up once they lost one game.

jhondog28
01-03-2010, 10:33 PM
I will agree you with on that, and maybe that's more the problem than anything else. JOB doesn't know what he wants from his players, and the players don't know he wants from them. He needs to choose a starting lineup and stick with it for the entire season minus injuries. As a player, that would frustrate me having to learn a "new Player" or not knowing who I will be playing with until gameday. Especially, if I've been playing alongside player "a" in practice, then game night I'm playing with player "b". JOB is too busy trying to find an instant winning lineup that damaging the team chemistry, and when he did, he broke it up once they lost one game.

Yea I agree it must suck being a coach on a bad team manily because the competitor in you wants to win but you have a group of players and they dont mesh well how in the hell can you possibly find a winning combination and generate consistency. I wonder if the coaches at the other crap teams have th same problem or if they just have a very green team so they are not sure what they got.

ksuttonjr76
01-03-2010, 10:38 PM
I would like to believe that throwing it into Roy would result in a crisp pass to the perimeter with a made 3....or a dunk over David Lee. In fact, I'd advocate trying that over the gar-bage we saw tonight. But the more I've thought about it, I don't think Hibby can remotely guard Lee on the other side. David Lee can drain the 17 footer all night...shooting 80% from the floor if left unguarded...and when Hibby comes out to guard him...then Lee blows by him for an easy bucket or an and-one. I wish it weren't true...but I think the match-up would still favor them on a good day.

Indiana, as a team, live by and die by the 3 way too much. David Lee is tough assignment for Hibbert, since he can hit the 17 footer forcing him to come out of the paint. Even Shaq/Yao/Howard/Duncan had problems with those type of players in their careers, but that's where you hope your teammates step up to help on D. With Indiana, there is no such second player, so Hibbert is forced to go one-on-one. Against true lowpost centers and with steady minutes, Hibbert is what we need in the post.

Naptown_Seth
01-03-2010, 10:44 PM
He could have passed out. And Hibbert only got ten touches, he had 7 assists and zero turnovers..that means he did in fact know what to do with it.

We should have tried to force NY to play "our game" *which, our game, should be feed Hibby* Instead of trying to run with them..when we played a game last night..

But no, we go small. The post rotation should have simply been Hibbert/Josh/Solo. I'm sorry, but a Solo/Hibbert front court is better than a Shooting guard/Center front court.
I agree. And it was the 3rd night of that at least, though with Minny we did have foul problems. I mean Price vs Sam Young the other night even gave up 2 inches. Dahntay guarding Love caught him by surprise at first but ended up with DJ fouled out.

The frontline is weak now because all of them, especially Roy, are prone to fouling a bit. Even just adding Tyler or Jeff helps that dramatically and let's you avoid going small a lot.

However the truth is that JOB has always run home to small so having some bigs out only justifies it that much more. If you are already tired and then asked to play against guys bigger, taller and more physical than you it's not going to go well. We saw Luther Head to start the Minny game get his 2 quick fouls because of this.


It could have been anticipated that once the team wrapped up the win last night they would need some energy tonight.
Yeah, and long before Minny pulled it back in I thought "NOW you have a situation where you can play Ford, let him do what he likes to do, score just enough to slow the points bleeding AND rest a guy like Watson before the NY game". But apparently a point was being made instead.

Of course who knows because him sitting completely "gives us the best chance to win". I don't need details, but don't blow smoke up our rear either.

If you are not happy with TJ's game then fine, but unless he's on double secret probation ala Tinsley you still play him in blowout minutes simply to rest the other guys.

ksuttonjr76
01-03-2010, 10:47 PM
Yea I agree it must suck being a coach on a bad team manily because the competitor in you wants to win but you have a group of players and they dont mesh well how in the hell can you possibly find a winning combination and generate consistency. I wonder if the coaches at the other crap teams have th same problem or if they just have a very green team so they are not sure what they got.

On the other teams, their coach don't screw with their confidences and egos like JOB does. With JOB, you could be a starter one game, then a DNP the next. Better yet, have a great game in 25 minutes of PT, then the next game only get 2 minutes. On the other losing teams, they only change their starting 5 and rotations due to injuries. How much want to bet that either D. Jones or Brandon Rush will be the starting SG next game? Some days, I SWEAR JOB does it on purpose, so they don't develop team chemistry over the course of a season.

Shade
01-03-2010, 10:52 PM
David Lee is insanely overrated around here.

Naptown_Seth
01-03-2010, 10:58 PM
Hibbert is better than jhondog28 is crediting him for, but his general view of his game is dead on IMO.

Hibbert isn't quick, that's a weakness. He's still awkward when taken out of his comfort moves, and that can lead to TOs quickly. He's a great passer but still makes some real duds that lead to easy points.

OTOH, in just one year we've seen Roy gain several pretty reliable post scoring moves and has been able to run up the points against some decent players. For the few bad passes what we normally see is perhaps the best passing on the team, though Price is quickly showing some strong talent there too.

He is a weak rebounder, but so was Smits. He's been a better than expected shot blocker and it looks like he's quickly getting comfortable with it.

I really believe you lean on him much like Smits but that unless the center position in the East gets crazy thin he'll never come close to an all-star game (like Smits). 16-7 with 2-3 APG and 1.5-2 BlkPG, that's pretty solid from a non-AS center.

Granger is the star, and it's looking like we might draft a 2nd one. Guys like Price, Rush, McRoberts, Hibby and Tyler don't need to be stars if that's the case. They need to be able to fill their role.

I hate to stir this up, but the one thing I do wish still is that you swap Tyler for Blair to go next to Roy because it solves the rebounding issue and gives some weakside muscle on offense to make teams struggle if they try to go too hard at Roy. Tyler's more a scrappy rebounder than power rebounder, and as nice as McBob is he can't rebound with the skill that Blair shows.

But other than that tweek the group looks fairly balanced and on track to me. The money and PT spent on the vets is the last remaining hurdle.

Hicks
01-03-2010, 11:07 PM
How many players are in this next draft that more than half of anybody thinks could (or should) be Danny level guys by the time they're in their 4th years?

If the answer is 5 or less, color me unenthusiastic.

Shade
01-03-2010, 11:09 PM
How many players are in this next draft that more than half of anybody thinks could (or should) be Danny level guys by the time they're in their 4th years?

If the answer is 5 or less, color me unenthusiastic.

We should be in the top 5, so it wouldn't matter. ;)

Kemo
01-03-2010, 11:11 PM
They have a rich mans Troy Murphy in Gallinari.


Ya Can't forget about J.O.B. being a "poor man's" Mike D'Antoni

LOL

.
.

Sorry , figured I'd throw that in for truth....
.
.

AlexAustin
01-03-2010, 11:11 PM
I could not disagree with this more. You can't possibly be telling me that Hibbert can have good games against the likes of Al Jefferson, Marc Gasol, Joakim Noah, Brook Lopez and Andrew Bogut but he would get "demolished" by David Lee.

Hibbert didn't do much in the Memphis game when Gasol was on the floor

Hicks
01-03-2010, 11:14 PM
We should be in the top 5, so it wouldn't matter. ;)

Right now we're looking at a range of 3 to 9, and that's if Danny never comes back.

Since he'll probably be playing in under two weeks, I'm leaning much closer to 9 than 3. Possibly even in our usual 10-13 range.

If you put a gun to my head, I'd say we'll pick about 9th when all is said and done.

Justin Tyme
01-03-2010, 11:16 PM
Lee in my opinion is better than every guy you just mentioned.


I like Lee but, lets not get carried away. I'd have a hard time choosing Lee over Jefferson or Lopez.

ksuttonjr76
01-03-2010, 11:16 PM
Hibbert is better than jhondog28 is crediting him for, but his general view of his game is dead on IMO.

Hibbert isn't quick, that's a weakness. He's still awkward when taken out of his comfort moves, and that can lead to TOs quickly. He's a great passer but still makes some real duds that lead to easy points.

OTOH, in just one year we've seen Roy gain several pretty reliable post scoring moves and has been able to run up the points against some decent players. For the few bad passes what we normally see is perhaps the best passing on the team, though Price is quickly showing some strong talent there too.

He is a weak rebounder, but so was Smits. He's been a better than expected shot blocker and it looks like he's quickly getting comfortable with it.

I really believe you lean on him much like Smits but that unless the center position in the East gets crazy thin he'll never come close to an all-star game (like Smits). 16-7 with 2-3 APG and 1.5-2 BlkPG, that's pretty solid from a non-AS center.

Granger is the star, and it's looking like we might draft a 2nd one. Guys like Price, Rush, McRoberts, Hibby and Tyler don't need to be stars if that's the case. They need to be able to fill their role.

I hate to stir this up, but the one thing I do wish still is that you swap Tyler for Blair to go next to Roy because it solves the rebounding issue and gives some weakside muscle on offense to make teams struggle if they try to go too hard at Roy. Tyler's more a scrappy rebounder than power rebounder, and as nice as McBob is he can't rebound with the skill that Blair shows.

But other than that tweek the group looks fairly balanced and on track to me. The money and PT spent on the vets is the last remaining hurdle.

Let's give Tyler this year to find out how the NBA really is. I'm hoping he'll have the same discovery that Hibbert did, and work on some different moves during the offseason. Preferrably, he'll develop a midrange jumper and a post game similar to Karl Malone. Tyler is really strong for a PF...well...he looks like he's very strong anyways.

Justin Tyme
01-03-2010, 11:21 PM
[QUOTE=ksuttonjr76;938401]


Truth be told is there a better 2nd year center that has Hibbert's upside? QUOTE]


BROOK LOPEZ

jhondog28
01-03-2010, 11:23 PM
It is amazing how all of us have different view points of the same player. I think Hibbert is a character guy that shows his emotion more than I actually thought I would have seen from him coming out of college. He gets so pumped up on the bench and seems like a guy fans can get behind. I really like having him on our team. I tend to agree that most of the teams that are in title contention have 1 superstar and average talent surrounding him that raises their levels to way above average. Mo Williams was a pretty good player before he came to Cleveland. Then he became all star status. I think if we can find one star in the draft or through free agency Granger, Hibbert, Dunleavy etc will have vastly improved overall games and then we can at least be looking at top 4 in the East.

Mourning
01-03-2010, 11:23 PM
It seems strange to me that none of the troy haters have tried to explain why we are giving up all these points and troy is not even playing. I guess maybe its time to realize troy murphy's defense isn't the main problem with this team.

I think it is time to just blame the coaching staff. We look really bad.

How about exhaustion after playing I don't know how many games the past 10 days? And, yes, we would have given up even more points with Troy IN the starting lineup I have no shred of doubt about it.

Troy is ok for us if he would play until about 20 minutes a night. More then that and he becomes a major liability. I like how you coincidentally left out our only win last night. You know the only win in the last 10 games without... you guessed it: Murphy.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

jhondog28
01-03-2010, 11:25 PM
I like Lee but, lets not get carried away. I'd have a hard time choosing Lee over Jefferson or Lopez.

Well to be honest I would rather have Lopez as a Center and Lee as a PF so its kinda apples to oranges, but as overall skill level I have always really like Lee's game. I will re-analyze Lopez next year and see what I think. I dont get to watch him near enough. Jefferson plays on a worst team than Hibbert so its hard for me to judge him also.

Will Galen
01-03-2010, 11:34 PM
How many players are in this next draft that more than half of anybody thinks could (or should) be Danny level guys by the time they're in their 4th years?

If the answer is 5 or less, color me unenthusiastic.

I was just looking at next years draft. Danny level is a stretch, but I guess it depends on where you rate Danny. I would say from reading the player's reports that as of now there is one superstar, that being John Wall, and 3-5 repeat all stars.

ksuttonjr76
01-03-2010, 11:42 PM
Truth be told is there a better 2nd year center that has Hibbert's upside?


BROOK LOPEZ

Okay, I'll give that one ;).

Thesterovic
01-03-2010, 11:43 PM
Aminu, Favors, Turner, Wall, Patterson, Davis, and Aldrich have superstar potential. But low chance besides Wall.

McKeyFan
01-04-2010, 01:30 AM
Dunleavy just ain't right.

I know, there's all this press that he is fine physically, just maybe not conditioned. But he plays like he's protecting himself, like he fears he will get injured again.

The first play of the game, he dribbled up court and lost it without much pressure. It's just not like him.

I think he either has another injury or he is still favoring his knee.

McKeyFan
01-04-2010, 01:31 AM
Or he's having personal problems.

Or he's on painkillers.

Bball
01-04-2010, 02:09 AM
Or he's having personal problems.

Or he's on painkillers.

He could merely be favoring the knee because of a fear of reinjury that he just hasn't gotten past mentally. It takes a while to get confidence back after a painful injury... especially true if that injury required surgery and long rehab.

Maybe there are even some little 'weird' things going on with it that the doctor's say are to be expected but has him worried (or maybe he hasn't brought them to the doctor for fear of what they'd say). ... a pop/click here.... some swelling at night.... differences in strength or stability...

CableKC
01-04-2010, 02:26 AM
I didn't watch the 1st 3 QTRs and barely paid attention to the 4th ( since we were down by 40 ) but did we really play Small-Warriors-ball where we had 4 PG/SG/SF on the floor with 1 true BigMan on the floor for the majority of the game? Please don't say we did.

Kuq_e_Zi91
01-04-2010, 02:40 AM
Or he's having personal problems.

Or he's on painkillers.

Or he's playing drunk.

Kemo
01-04-2010, 04:06 AM
Now come on guys... If any of you are actually being SERIOUS in insinuating ANY of our players are under the influence of drugs or alcohol during a game is uncalled for....


While sometimes I wonder WTF?!?! myself , not only with players and JOB sometimes, but ... lol I SERIOUSLY DOUBT ANY Pacers personel are f'd up on dope or hooch ..

Justin Tyme
01-04-2010, 07:25 AM
Well to be honest I would rather have Lopez as a Center and Lee as a PF so its kinda apples to oranges, but as overall skill level I have always really like Lee's game. I will re-analyze Lopez next year and see what I think. I dont get to watch him near enough. Jefferson plays on a worst team than Hibbert so its hard for me to judge him also.


Jefferson just missed out on being an Allstar last year. I've wanted Jefferson ever since the discussions of trading JO to Boston were kicked around. He was the ideal replacement for JO. I almost literally cried when Boston traded him to Minnesota. He'll rot there on poor teams just like KG did.

Justin Tyme
01-04-2010, 08:22 AM
I know we are all dejected and upset about getting beat by 43 points. Just think if you were a Dallas fan and watched your team get beat by the Lakers by 35 points. Sure Dallas is far better than the Pacers, but that is the point, they aren't a 10 win team. They are a team competing to win all the marbles, and got spanked hard.

With the Pacers loss and Philly won, it puts the Pacers in a tie for 4th place in the John Wall Sweepstakes. Philly presently owns the tie breaker, so in essence the Pacers are in 3rd place in the John Wall Sweepstakes. It's pretty bad/sad when the best thing Pacer fans have to look forward to is the lottery.

jhondog28
01-04-2010, 08:25 AM
Jefferson just missed out on being an Allstar last year. I've wanted Jefferson ever since the discussions of trading JO to Boston were kicked around. He was the ideal replacement for JO. I almost literally cried when Boston traded him to Minnesota. He'll rot there on poor teams just like KG did.

Oh I didnt ever say Jefferson was bad I just tend to like Lee's game a lot. Jefferson is a hell of a player, but he has 0 talent around him and Hibbert did a good job on him but lets not forget we brought in the double and sometimetimes triple team on him to force him to pass which he is not good at. So I cant say Hibbert tore him up defensively since it was a team effort. You put Jefferson on Hibbert one on one it would probably get ugly.

ksuttonjr76
01-04-2010, 08:25 AM
I know we are all dejected and upset about getting beat by 43 points. Just think if you were a Dallas fan and watched your team get beat by the Lakers by 35 points. Sure Dallas is far better than the Pacers, but that is the point, they aren't a 10 win team. They are a team competing to win all the marbles, and got spanked hard.

With the Pacers loss and Philly won, it puts the Pacers in a tie for 4th place in the John Wall Sweepstakes. Philly presently owns the tie breaker, so in essence the Pacers are in 3rd place in the John Wall Sweepstakes. It's pretty bad/sad when the best thing Pacer fans have to look forward to is the lottery.

The lottery is not a bad thing though. I buy tickets to it everyday :D.

Unclebuck
01-04-2010, 08:28 AM
I don't understand something. Many if not most of you want a few things.

1) the young guys to play - OK done
2) To get a very high draft pick - OK done

So why all the whinning about being through with this team, this is what you want and this is what you are getting. You should be if not happy, at least satisfied and you should be thankful of O'Brien for doing what he is doing right now

McKeyFan
01-04-2010, 08:32 AM
He could merely be favoring the knee because of a fear of reinjury that he just hasn't gotten past mentally. It takes a while to get confidence back after a painful injury... especially true if that injury required surgery and long rehab.

Maybe there are even some little 'weird' things going on with it that the doctor's say are to be expected but has him worried (or maybe he hasn't brought them to the doctor for fear of what they'd say). ... a pop/click here.... some swelling at night.... differences in strength or stability...

The first part of your post doesn't mesh with the fact that he looked great and confident his first few games back.

The second paragraph may be what happened.

Bball
01-04-2010, 08:43 AM
The first part of your post doesn't mesh with the fact that he looked great and confident his first few games back.

The second paragraph may be what happened.

With the first part I'd assume if that's close to the answer then the rest of it would be something happened in a game (or afterwards... or practice) that scared him and caused him to lose the confidence he had.

Whether that would be a continual thing happening, or just something happening once but now in the back of his mind holding him back, I don't know.

It's just random speculation of course...

For all we know your speculation that he needs painkillers could be a factor...

I'm not surprised he's having a hard time getting back in the groove. The surprising part is really that he started as well as he did. It could easily take a season and off-season to really get back where he was. And even then, he may never get back.

JohnnyBGoode
01-04-2010, 09:07 AM
Outrebounded by 20, just maybe Troy doesn't steal rebounds after all.:p

Will Galen
01-04-2010, 09:15 AM
I don't understand something. Many if not most of you want a few things.

1) the young guys to play - OK done
2) To get a very high draft pick - OK done

So why all the whinning about being through with this team, this is what you want and this is what you are getting. You should be if not happy, at least satisfied and you should be thankful of O'Brien for doing what he is doing right now

There were whiners when we were a contender. Some people are going to whine regardless.

Hicks
01-04-2010, 10:12 AM
Kemo,

Green usually equals a sarcastic comment. Not something often used on PD, but I'm hoping that will change.

colts19
01-04-2010, 11:07 AM
Troy is ok for us if he would play until about 20 minutes a night. More then that and he becomes a major liability.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

I tend to agree with this part about 20 minutes a night would be good I think. I just have a problem with troy being blamed for everything. He may not be our best defensive player but he has a lot of company. He does rebound and score, not a lot of company in those two areas. ;)

ChicagoJ
01-04-2010, 11:11 AM
I would like to believe that throwing it into Roy would result in a crisp pass to the perimeter with a made 3....or a dunk over David Lee. In fact, I'd advocate trying that over the gar-bage we saw tonight. But the more I've thought about it, I don't think Hibby can remotely guard Lee on the other side. David Lee can drain the 17 footer all night...shooting 80% from the floor if left unguarded...and when Hibby comes out to guard him...then Lee blows by him for an easy bucket or an and-one. I wish it weren't true...but I think the match-up would still favor them on a good day.

And that's why I don't think of David Lee as a C. He's a PF. Hibbert shouldn't be stepping outside to guard anybody. Zones are quasi-legal now... if they put a big guy in the game for Hibbert to defend then he should guard the middle of their donut and get all the ORs.

ChicagoJ
01-04-2010, 11:31 AM
Dunleavy just ain't right.

I know, there's all this press that he is fine physically, just maybe not conditioned. But he plays like he's protecting himself, like he fears he will get injured again.

The first play of the game, he dribbled up court and lost it without much pressure. It's just not like him.

I think he either has another injury or he is still favoring his knee.

Just because they rushed him back onto the court and gave a press release to say he's "okay" does not mean he's really ready for all of this. And it shows.

Just because they rushed him back onto the court as soon as they could get "anything" out of him probably does not change the original timetable... 12 months. I don't expect him to look like "Dunleavy" until next season. But getting a few minutes from him at 60% is better than nothing at all (assuming he doesn't re-injure it which is a big risk for an overuse type of injury like his.)

BRushWithDeath
01-04-2010, 11:35 AM
Outrebounded by 20, just maybe Troy doesn't steal rebounds after all.:p

Yes. It was because Troy was out. It had nothing to do with the fact that we played small the entire game.

BillS
01-04-2010, 11:38 AM
I don't understand something. Many if not most of you want a few things.

1) the young guys to play - OK done
2) To get a very high draft pick - OK done

So why all the whinning about being through with this team, this is what you want and this is what you are getting. You should be if not happy, at least satisfied and you should be thankful of O'Brien for doing what he is doing right now

Ahh, but he obviously isn't doing it <i><b>right</b></i>, otherwise the team would be winning AND would be in the lottery.


Just because they rushed him back onto the court and gave a press release to say he's "okay" does not mean he's really ready for all of this. And it shows.

Just because they rushed him back onto the court as soon as they could get "anything" out of him probably does not change the original timetable... 12 months. I don't expect him to look like "Dunleavy" until next season. But getting a few minutes from him at 60% is better than nothing at all (assuming he doesn't re-injure it which is a big risk for an overuse type of injury like his.)

He's been out of the knee brace for 2 games now, which is NOT something that could be forced on him. He had one game where his legs were pretty much back under him and one where he was no more out of gas than every one else (because everyone had no legs for whatever reason).

I am less worried about Dun, though I agree it'll be a new season before he's fully up to snuff simply because he was out for so long that doesn't correct in just a few weeks.

duke dynamite
01-04-2010, 11:48 AM
I don't understand something. Many if not most of you want a few things.

1) the young guys to play - OK done
2) To get a very high draft pick - OK done

So why all the whinning about being through with this team, this is what you want and this is what you are getting. You should be if not happy, at least satisfied and you should be thankful of O'Brien for doing what he is doing right now
Yes, to much of my dismay everyone is getting exactly what they want. This team does play with a lot more intensity, but they aren't any better.

ChicagoJ
01-04-2010, 11:51 AM
Not that its the same, but an analagy applies...

Have you ever played in a knee brace?

The Steelers rushed Troy Polamalu back onto the field this season, and he looked very average with the knee brace on. So he pulled it off and played a couple more weeks before he injured a different part of the knee.

Athletes probably hate playing with a knee brace even more than they hate sitting out with an injury. That's not a sign of "Whoo-Hoo, its HEALED!" That's a sign of "I HATE this thing."

maragin
01-04-2010, 12:04 PM
Kemo,

Green usually equals a sarcastic comment. Not something often used on PD, but I'm hoping that will change.

Thanks.

Peck
01-04-2010, 12:25 PM
Yes, to much of my dismay everyone is getting exactly what they want. This team does play with a lot more intensity, but they aren't any better.

Sadly at this stage of the season that is really the best thing possible. If you are going to lose at least be entertaining.

I don't count last night, well obviously I do but you get my point, because we litterally are playing guys who up till two weeks ago did not even dress for the game as starters. Of course they are going to be gassed after a back to back and they have no back ups either.

I want to blame someone for the small ball but the reality is we have Josh, Roy and Solomon left out there. Three weeks ago Josh wasn't dressed, Solomon was getting DNP-Cd's and there were times Roy was in and out of the starting lineup often times getting less than 20 min. a game.

Everybody is now admitting that the season is over, what really sucks though is knowing that the season was over with in November.

Hicks
01-04-2010, 01:04 PM
Yes. It was because Troy was out. It had nothing to do with the fact that we played small the entire game.

I'm digging the green font for sarcasm, but could we possibly not go with the shade so bright it burns my eyes? :eek:

Thanks.

duke dynamite
01-04-2010, 01:11 PM
Sadly at this stage of the season that is really the best thing possible. If you are going to lose at least be entertaining.

:notamused:

I actually am having a hard time remaining entertained while watching any iteration of the 2009-2010 Indiana Pacers. I'm glad I have you guys during and after the games or I wouldn't show up.

Sookie
01-04-2010, 01:20 PM
Yes, to much of my dismay everyone is getting exactly what they want. This team does play with a lot more intensity, but they aren't any better.


I don't think people wanted to see a lineup of
PG/PG/SG/SG/F or C

I know Hibbert got in foul trouble, but McRoberts only played 20 minutes. And I'm sorry, a Front court of Solo (who also only played 23 minutes) and McRoberts is much better than a shooting guard in the Front Court. I mean, FFS, AJ lead the team in offensive rebounds, with a resounding 2.

And then wonder why we got outrebounded, and why they could score
at will inside. But kudos to JOB, very good excuse to play Troy for 35 minutes now. *Who btw, would have been better than a shooting guard there*

Maybe just Maybe Rush and DJones can't guard a PF too well.

Not to mention, it was a tired team, so they couldn't make jumpshots, and when you are playing all guards...

duke dynamite
01-04-2010, 01:25 PM
I don't think people wanted to see a lineup of
PG/PG/SG/SG/F or C

And then wonder why we got outrebounded, and why they could score at will inside.

Maybe just Maybe Rush and DJones can't guard a PF too well.
Hmm...we still stink.

BillS
01-04-2010, 01:30 PM
I don't think people wanted to see a lineup of
PG/PG/SG/SG/F or C

And then wonder why we got outrebounded, and why they could score at will inside.

Maybe just Maybe Rush and DJones can't guard a PF too well.

When you don't have most of the players who can play at PF it's a little hard to split 2 positions among 3 players all the time.

What did you think you'd get sitting Troy, Danny, Jeff, and Tyler? Magic growing beans for Brandon?

Sookie
01-04-2010, 01:31 PM
Hmm...we still stink.

Probably. But I think a normal lineup could have competed with the knicks.

Do we probably lose, yea. Most likely. But jesus, you can not play that small and compete in most games, unless you are making a ton of threes.

Sookie
01-04-2010, 01:32 PM
When you don't have most of the players who can play at PF it's a little hard to split 2 positions among 3 players all the time.

What did you think you'd get sitting Troy, Danny, Jeff, and Tyler? Magic growing beans for Brandon?

More than twenty minutes for McBob and Solo.

Hibbert fouled out, but there was no excuse for the other two playing so little.

duke dynamite
01-04-2010, 01:39 PM
Probably. But I think a normal lineup could have competed with the knicks.

Do we probably lose, yea. Most likely. But jesus, you can not play that small and compete in most games, unless you are making a ton of threes.
A normal lineup without some of these current players.

Slick Pinkham
01-04-2010, 01:47 PM
my reaction to this game and also to much of this thread:

http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/image.php?u=14420&type=sigpic&dateline=1259705093


edit: kind of small, but it reads: "Double face palm. For when just one face palm won't cut it."

CableKC
01-04-2010, 01:53 PM
Mods, you have to get the "Double Facepalm" as a Smiley to add alongside the Picard Facepalm.

Justin Tyme
01-04-2010, 01:56 PM
I'm digging the green font for sarcasm, but could we possibly not go with the shade so bright it burns my eyes? :eek:

Thanks.


At least your eyes could read it, mine couldn't.

Hicks
01-04-2010, 02:17 PM
Mods, you have to get the "Double Facepalm" as a Smiley to add alongside the Picard Facepalm.

If someone can get me a larger version (with or without the text; I kind of like it better without), I'll do that.

BillS
01-04-2010, 02:37 PM
More than twenty minutes for McBob and Solo.

Hibbert fouled out, but there was no excuse for the other two playing so little.

Other than being exhausted, maybe?

Mr_Smith
01-04-2010, 02:38 PM
OMFG!!! This is the most lopsided loss I've ever seen. I tuned in during the
3rd quarter and they were down 94-57. I thought it was a typo. Draft John Wall!!!!!! (clap, clap, clap-clap-clap!!) Draft John Wall!!!! (clap, clap, clap-clap-clap!!)

duke dynamite
01-04-2010, 02:58 PM
If someone can get me a larger version (with or without the text; I kind of like it better without), I'll do that.
http://cdn0.knowyourmeme.com/i/6512/original/DoubleFacePalm.jpg

Sookie
01-04-2010, 03:24 PM
Other than being exhausted, maybe?

Than what's the excuse for playing Earl Watson as much as he did. Because honestly, if anyone was exhausted..

Since86
01-04-2010, 03:26 PM
:notamused:

I actually am having a hard time remaining entertained while watching any iteration of the 2009-2010 Indiana Pacers. I'm glad I have you guys during and after the games or I wouldn't show up.


That's because you're not a true fan.

BillS
01-04-2010, 04:20 PM
Than what's the excuse for playing Earl Watson as much as he did. Because honestly, if anyone was exhausted..

I suppose you could have sat him more if you wanted to play TJ, but then everyone would have blamed the blowout on him. In any event he had more game conditioning that McRoberts could be expected to have.

We had 10 guys (9 if you don't count TJ), all of whom (again, if you don't count TJ) played the night before. That's barely a rotation even if the positions of the players are balanced.

duke dynamite
01-04-2010, 07:00 PM
That's because you're not a true fan.
So I'm told...

Hicks
01-04-2010, 07:28 PM
testing:

:picardriker: