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View Full Version : Stephen Jackson Signs With Indiana



J-Wont
07-10-2004, 07:21 PM
6 years, $39,000,000
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1837655

indytoad
07-10-2004, 07:31 PM
Wow, suprised to hear the news this soon. We couldn't get him for less?


Jackson's forthcoming signing may trigger another deal for the Pacers. The team has been trying for weeks to move Al Harrington in an effort to clear enough money under the luxury tax threshold to sign a free agent. With Jackson agreeing to terms, Harrington likely will be moved to a team a first-round pick and enough cap room to swallow his deal.

Sounds like we'll be trading Al for caproom afterall.

IndyToad
And the something goes marching on

Kstat
07-10-2004, 07:33 PM
.....

indytoad
07-10-2004, 07:39 PM
Is it fake? The address looks legit to me.

Can't find a link to it on the main page though, so maybe it is.

IndyToad
I'm gonna save the republic

bulletproof
07-10-2004, 07:39 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1837655

bulletproof
07-10-2004, 07:40 PM
Hell yeah!!!

J-Wont
07-10-2004, 07:40 PM
The Jackson signing is brilliant and makes the Pacers the favorites for next year. They just replaced an old, washed up Reggie Miller with an 18 ppg scorer who's worlds better defensively, is better rebounder, and a better passer. If I was Donnie Walsh I'd try my best to work a Harrington/Pollard for Dampier trade.
Tinsley/Jax/Artest/ONeal/Dampier would be the best starting lineup in the league and a bench of Reggie, Bender, Fred Jones, Foster, Croshere, AJ would arguably be the best bench in the league.

bulletproof
07-10-2004, 07:40 PM
Hell yeah!!! :dance:

Kstat
07-10-2004, 07:40 PM
Well actually, i thought it was a fake initially, but thats because this site hides the true link address, and the real address looks legit, so I may be wrong after all.

In any case, this was bound to happen sooner or later, this was the only real FA SG the Pacers had a shot at signing.

arkman40
07-10-2004, 07:43 PM
I was looking at his profile on yahoo.com. I knew he had a breakout season last year, but what I didn't know is that he really blew up in the 2nd half of the season.

After the All-Star break, he put up 24.0 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 3.5 apg, 2.2 spg, 44% FG, 37% 3-PT, 82% FT.

That is fine production, bad team or not.

Anyone know what kind of defender he is? I should proably know being down here in Atlanta, but I found it hard to generate any interest in the Hawks last season.

Southside_Pacer
07-10-2004, 07:43 PM
Welcome to Indiana Mr. Jackson.

indytoad
07-10-2004, 07:44 PM
So, I guess I'll be the first to ask:

Who starts?

IndyToad
Let's make a baby

zxc
07-10-2004, 07:45 PM
I hate this really. ESPNews says its a sign and trade for Al. Sigh, whatever, hope Jackson works out well for us.

clownskull
07-10-2004, 07:45 PM
this is a pickup that i like. we needed a guy with experience and size at that spot. the only question now is where are we sending al?

Kstat
07-10-2004, 07:47 PM
well, if its a sign and trade, AL is obviously going to atlanta.

zxc
07-10-2004, 07:52 PM
Really sucks we are just giving Al away.. :(

Sucks we have so much money tied up owners won't let us just sign the guy outright like we obviously could since it's just the exception. If only they had just let Brad walk last year instead of bringing in Pollard and his crap deal =\

scar
07-10-2004, 07:53 PM
I like this deal for Indiana. This obviously give them a great shooting guard. But my only question is, will Reggie come off of the bench or is he gunna start? If he does start, its because of his HUGE ego...

bulletproof
07-10-2004, 07:54 PM
Really sucks we are just giving Al away.. :(

Sucks we have so much money tied up owners won't let us just sign the guy outright like we obviously could since it's just the exception. If only they had just let Brad walk last year instead of bringing in Pollard and his crap deal =\

Go crawl back under the rock from whence you came.

tora tora
07-10-2004, 07:54 PM
Reggie will start, but will probably play less minutes.

able
07-10-2004, 07:56 PM
If it's a S&T for Al it it's ridiculous value in the current market and less then he's worth.
If it's an outright signing then someone lost his mind.

He's simply not worth that kind of money.

But I am moderately pleased we're at least not talking about losing Tins and getting Terry

no matter what, it darkens the day, at half that price I would've been happy, this is just another Cro contract we will never get rid of, but we'll be praying like mad for it.

NugzFan
07-10-2004, 07:57 PM
The Jackson signing is brilliant and makes the Pacers the favorites for next year.



favorites for what? :confused:

indytoad
07-10-2004, 07:58 PM
Looks like in the sign-and-trade scenario Jackson will get $44 million over 6 years, a bit more than the MLE...

That's a long contract, I hope last year wasn't a fluke.

IndyToad
A bedside heater

able
07-10-2004, 08:00 PM
the article:

ESPN.com

Stephen Jackson has agreed to a six-year, $39 million contract with the Indiana Pacers, a source close to Jackson told ESPN Insider's Chad Ford.


Stephen Jackson
Guard-Forward
Atlanta Hawks
Profile


2003-2004 SEASON STATISTICS
GM PPG RPG APG FG% FT%
80 18.1 4.6 3.1 .425 .785

The Pacers will use their entire mid-level exception to sign Jackson. Indiana has been looking for some athleticism and perimeter shooting in their backcourt and Jackson, who has championship experience with the Spurs, can provide both.

Jackson averaged 18.1 points, 4.6 rebounds and 3.1 assists per game last season in his only campaign as a Hawk. That followed his breakout season in San Antonio, where he averaged 11.8 points per game for the 2002-03 NBA champions.

Jackson's forthcoming signing may trigger another deal for the Pacers. The team has been trying for weeks to move Al Harrington in an effort to clear enough money under the luxury tax threshold to sign a free agent. With Jackson agreeing to terms, Harrington likely will be moved to a team a first-round pick and enough cap room to swallow his deal.

Kstat
07-10-2004, 08:01 PM
The Jackson signing is brilliant and makes the Pacers the favorites for next year.



favorites for what? :confused:

If the Pacers signed Dajuan Wagner to get Ron Artest his water durning timeouts, J-Wont would be buying his finals tickets right now.:rolleyes:

That said, Stephen Jackson is a nice player. I think he'll fit very well in Indy.

kybjones
07-10-2004, 08:07 PM
Terrible contract.............. UGH!

The guy is a mediocre shooter at best and his stats are a result of playing for the lowly Hawks.

I must say, for this being the FIRST Pacer non-vet minimum/exception free agent signing in the past 20 years, I'm left ready to puke.

zxc
07-10-2004, 08:08 PM
Go crawl back under the rock from whence you came.



:rolleyes:

So you are that excited that we are just giving Al away for nothing for a guy we could have just signed outright? Well guess every pacer fan just hates Al so no reason to be upset at all. Saw quite a few hawks games last year I just don't really see Jackson as being the solution at SG for us for the next 6 years.

Though this way we still have the MLE to spend I assume so perhaps they can still bring someone else in too maybe to help frontcourt now. But kinda doubt we add any more salary.

Kstat
07-10-2004, 08:09 PM
Terrible contract.............. UGH!

The guy is a mediocre shooter at best and his stats are a result of playing for the lowly Hawks.

I must say, for this being the FIRST Pacer non-vet minimum/exception free agent signing in the past 20 years, I'm left ready to puke.


He was going to get that from SOMEBODY, and if you lose out on Jackson, you're out of options and teams will be holding indy hostage in trade talks.

Kstat
07-10-2004, 08:10 PM
Go crawl back under the rock from whence you came.



:rolleyes:

So you are that excited that we are just giving Al away for nothing for a guy we could have just signed outright? Well guess every pacer fan just hates Al so no reason to be upset at all. Saw quite a few hawks games last year I just don't really see Jackson as being the solution at SG for us for the next 6 years.

Though this way we still have the MLE to spend I assume so perhaps they can still bring someone else in too maybe to help frontcourt now. But kinda doubt we add any more salary.

I think the deal Jackson got was above the MLE.

I think a lot of you guys were expecting WAY too much......this was as good a deal as you were going to get.

bulletproof
07-10-2004, 08:11 PM
Terrible contract.............. UGH!

The guy is a mediocre shooter at best and his stats are a result of playing for the lowly Hawks.

I must say, for this being the FIRST Pacer non-vet minimum/exception free agent signing in the past 20 years, I'm left ready to puke.

Think you could have done better?

bulletproof
07-10-2004, 08:13 PM
Terrible contract.............. UGH!

The guy is a mediocre shooter at best and his stats are a result of playing for the lowly Hawks.

I must say, for this being the FIRST Pacer non-vet minimum/exception free agent signing in the past 20 years, I'm left ready to puke.


He was going to get that from SOMEBODY, and if you lose out on Jackson, you're out of options and teams will be holding indy hostage in trade talks.

Yep.

First time Kstat and I have agreed on something.

blanket
07-10-2004, 08:16 PM
I hate this really. ESPNews says its a sign and trade for Al. Sigh, whatever, hope Jackson works out well for us.

The ESPN article says its a FA signing for the MLE and alludes to another deal coming involving Al to free up cap space.

I haven't seen anything to suggest it's a sign-and-trade for Al.

Can anyone confirm or deny this with a link?

Arcadian
07-10-2004, 08:17 PM
The stats are meaningless. This is the team where Sura turned into Mr. Triple Double.

bulletproof
07-10-2004, 08:17 PM
Go crawl back under the rock from whence you came.



:rolleyes:

So you are that excited that we are just giving Al away for nothing for a guy we could have just signed outright? Well guess every pacer fan just hates Al so no reason to be upset at all. Saw quite a few hawks games last year I just don't really see Jackson as being the solution at SG for us for the next 6 years.

Though this way we still have the MLE to spend I assume so perhaps they can still bring someone else in too maybe to help frontcourt now. But kinda doubt we add any more salary.

I like the idea of moving Harrington because it gives more playing time to Croshere/Bender. Croshere would be productive if we used him 15-20 minutes a night. Not worth the money, but a contributor, as evidenced by game 4 of the ECFs. He needs consistent minutes and Bird likes him, so that may have been part of the thinking here.

LouisvilleLip
07-10-2004, 08:17 PM
It doesnt say Harrington was included in the signing of Jackson. It says now that they have signed Jackson it is more than likely they will move Harrington to save cap space.

So does that mean we r trading him to Atl, or somebody else. And if we do trade him in another deal will it just be for a draft pick or can the Pacers afford to recieve someone back?

indytoad
07-10-2004, 08:20 PM
Apparently it's been reported by Ric Bucher on ESPNews that it's a sign and trade for Harrington.

Been posted on a couple forums...here's the ones I'm watching at the moment...

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewforum.php?f=7
http://www.hawksquawk.net/forums/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=homecourt
http://www.spursreport.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=18

IndyToad
Tomorrow on TBS

bulletproof
07-10-2004, 08:20 PM
It doesnt say Harrington was included in the signing of Jackson. It says now that they have signed Jackson it is more than likely they will move Harrington to save cap space.

So does that mean we r trading him to Atl, or somebody else. And if we do trade him in another deal will it just be for a draft pick or can the Pacers afford to recieve someone back?

I like the idea of waiting until December 15th and trading him for Luke Jackson.

edit: Okay, that was dumb. We don't need the other Jackson now. Let's hope we go for a big guy with Al.

Kstat
07-10-2004, 08:21 PM
yeah, Im watching the same thing on ESPN news. Ric Bucher reports the sign and trade for AL.

I think that posted article was premature, its clearly a sign and trade. It makes the most sense.

bulletproof
07-10-2004, 08:25 PM
If it's a S&T, Al is getting what he always wanted. Jax finally gets a home with a good organization, which is what he always wanted. It's good for everyone involved.

kybjones
07-10-2004, 08:26 PM
When you guys are sitting around here in Summer of 2006 wondering who the hell will take Jackson's contract away from us, don't tell me I told you so.

Terrible, terrible deal.

Excuse me while I go look for some rope and a tree.

Kstat
07-10-2004, 08:27 PM
If it's a S&T, Al is getting what he always wanted. Jax finally gets a home with a good organization, which is what he always wanted. It's good for everyone involved.

I agree with this SOB.

Al Harrington wants a team of his own to run. This is what he wanted, and Jackson fits best on an inside-outide team like Indiana. They are both going to great situations for them.

I also think this makes KMart signing with atlanta more likely.

Kstat
07-10-2004, 08:28 PM
When you guys are sitting around here in Summer of 2006 wondering who the hell will take Jackson's contract away from us, don't tell me I told you so.

Terrible, terrible deal.

Excuse me while I go look for some rope and a tree.


OK, so leave and dont come back till 2006. Then you can tell all of us how right you were, and what ELSE the pacers could have done to get a SG. And I mean REALISTIC ideas.

King Mob
07-10-2004, 08:30 PM
I'm missing something here. Why wouldn't the P's sign SJax outright and trade Al for another contributor? Or was this deal more than the MLE?

Kstat
07-10-2004, 08:35 PM
I'm missing something here. Why wouldn't the P's sign SJax outright and trade Al for another contributor? Or was this deal more than the MLE?

I think Jackson will be getting more than the MLE.

Besides, after fixing their SG need, the Pacers really dont need the additional salary of trading al for ANOTHER player making what he makes.

bulletproof
07-10-2004, 08:39 PM
Anyone who was expecting something earth shattering needs a reality check. All we really needed was a tweak. Al wanted to be traded, we needed an SG who can consistently put up 15-18 ppg. Backcourt upgraded. Mission accomplished.

zxc
07-10-2004, 08:39 PM
I don't think he is getting more then the MLE. Those numbers are the same as we saw for Cardinal and all the other guys who signed for it so far. Only reason its a sign and trade is because they don't want to spend so much money and need to get rid of Al to bring in a guy for the MLE. Damn Pollard and Croshere :(

bulletproof
07-10-2004, 08:41 PM
Question for Kstat: Will having Jackson pull defenders like Ben or Sheed out of the paint and open up the middle for JO and Ron as Cro did in game 4 of the ECFs?

Kstat
07-10-2004, 08:47 PM
Question for Kstat: Will having Jackson pull defenders like Ben or Sheed out of the paint and open up the middle for JO and Ron as Cro did in game 4 of the ECFs?

Is Jackson going to play center?:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Jackson wont space the floor any more than reggie does. Indy already has the best spacing in the NBA, you guys have spacing on the brain. Croshere's success in game 4 was offset by his sucking in games 5 and 6. The pistons made little adjustments and croshere was rendered ineffective.

Its more or less impossible to draw detroit's intirior defense outside consistently, because they rotate so well. Not to mention you need a guy that will MAKE those shots from the C position every night. Thats just not going to happen.

What Jackson WILL do is provide a consistent threat from the SG spot every night, and unlike reggie, he can put the ball on the floor and pass the ball. He knows how to win, you cant blame him for Atlanta's problems. He isnt a better defender than reggie, but he brings a LOT of attributes on the offensive end.

zxc
07-10-2004, 08:50 PM
I don't think it will have any effect on pulling out big guys. But having an actual threat at SG should at least stop Prince and Hamilton and such from sagging off their guys and helping out inside all the time. Hopefully make it easier to get JO the ball in better position, was always forced to go way out with everyone all over the passing lanes since they don't have to stay that honest on our perimeter guys.

Anyway I hope he provides the threat we need. Guess one other thing to be glad about now is this means we are almost certain to keep Ron.

J-Wont
07-10-2004, 08:54 PM
He isnt a better defender than reggie, but he brings a LOT of attributes on the offensive end.

:confused: Jackson is worlds better defensively than a prime Reggie Miller. As a matter of fact, I think Jacksons nice D on Rip is gonna be the #1 reason Indiana dethrones the Champs* next year.

*Asterix champs because they're only holding the title between the time LA breaks up and Indiana blows up.

able
07-10-2004, 08:57 PM
the updated article and this doesn't make it any better.

44 mil <shakes head>

(no he's not worth it, but i guess we lessened the payroll a bit so that's good, but 6 years?)

ESPN.com

The Atlanta Hawks and the Indiana Pacers have agreed to a sign-and-trade deal with guard Stephen Jackson, ESPN the Magazine's Ric Bucher reported Saturday night.


Stephen Jackson
Guard-Forward
Atlanta Hawks
Profile


2003-2004 SEASON STATISTICS
GM PPG RPG APG FG% FT%
80 18.1 4.6 3.1 .425 .785

The Hawks will re-sign Jackson to a six-year, $44 million deal and then trade him to the Pacers for forward Al Harrington. The trade cannot take place until at least July 14th, per NBA rules.

Earlier Saturday, ESPN Insider Chad Ford reported that Jackson was on his way to the Pacers and that Indiana was now looking to offload Harrington.

The Pacers have been looking for some athleticism and perimeter shooting in their backcourt and Jackson, who has championship experience with the Spurs, can provide both.

Jackson averaged 18.1 points, 4.6 rebounds and 3.1 assists per game last season in his only campaign as a Hawk. That followed his breakout season in San Antonio, where he averaged 11.8 points per game for the 2002-03 NBA champions.

Kstat
07-10-2004, 08:59 PM
He isnt a better defender than reggie, but he brings a LOT of attributes on the offensive end.

:confused: Jackson is worlds better defensively than a prime Reggie Miller. As a matter of fact, I think Jacksons nice D on Rip is gonna be the #1 reason Indiana dethrones the Champs* next year.

*Asterix champs because they're only holding the title between the time LA breaks up and Indiana blows up.


:rolleyes:

Rip Hamilton has had his best offensive games vs jackson, even when jackson was on the spurs. Jackson has been rip's whipping boy ever since they started playing each other.

Thats no knock on SJax, very few people can guard rip effectively, but jackson just isnt an above-average defender. Thats never been his strength, even when he was on the best defensive team in the NBA. He's a scorer.

Arcadian
07-10-2004, 09:00 PM
If it is a sign and trade why is the deal 6 yrs instead of 7?

Also Jackson is better than Reggie defensively. If you want to say he wouldn't fare better on Rip then Reggie maybe...

I'm not convienced that Jackson will start over Reggie either,

able
07-10-2004, 09:01 PM
He isnt a better defender than reggie, but he brings a LOT of attributes on the offensive end.

:confused: Jackson is worlds better defensively than a prime Reggie Miller. As a matter of fact, I think Jacksons nice D on Rip is gonna be the #1 reason Indiana dethrones the Champs* next year.

*Asterix champs because they're only holding the title between the time LA breaks up and Indiana blows up.

And "turnover prone" to say the least, geehs, to think I now have 20 million reasons to not like him, big shoes to fill for a new kid on the block.




:rolleyes:

Rip Hamilton has had his best offensive games vs jackson, even when jackson was on the spurs. Jackson has been rip's whipping boy ever since they started playing each other.

Thats no knock on SJax, very few people can guard rip effectively, but jackson just isnt an above-average defender. Thats never been his strength, even when he was on the best defensive team in the NBA. He's a scorer.

Kstat
07-10-2004, 09:02 PM
If it is a sign and trade why is the deal 6 yrs instead of 7?

Also Jackson is better than Reggie defensively. If you want to say he wouldn't fare better on Rip then Reggie maybe...

I'm not convienced that Jackson will start over Reggie either,


Actually yeah, thats what I meant.

ANd I dont think Jackson would have agreed to playing in Indy unless he was guarenteed a starting spot.

zxc
07-10-2004, 09:03 PM
If it is a sign and trade why is the deal 6 yrs instead of 7?

Also Jackson is better than Reggie defensively. If you want to say he wouldn't fare better on Rip then Reggie maybe...

I'm not convienced that Jackson will start over Reggie either,

I think he was only there for 1 year so they don't have bird rights or anything so can't make it a 7 year deal.

It's 44 mill now? Ugh, I hope this works out.

Kstat
07-10-2004, 09:04 PM
As I said, Jackson is getting more than the MLE.

scar
07-10-2004, 09:07 PM
I know the Hawks have to be loving the fact that they get Harrington, who, btw, had his career high against them.

Just one more deal on the way to the 2004-2005 Championship!

kybjones
07-10-2004, 09:07 PM
Guys, it's not the Harrington for Jackson or just acquiring Jackson stuff that disturbs me.... it's the terms of the contract.

The length and amount of this contract will hurt in the end, IMHO.

bulletproof
07-10-2004, 09:08 PM
If we traded Ron for Pierce, there would be complaints that we traded an all-star DPOY for a ballhog. If we traded Ron and whoever else it took to get Allen, there would be complaints that we gutted the team when all we needed was a tweak. Can't make everybody happy. :unimpressed:

scar
07-10-2004, 09:09 PM
Lets see, we got stuck with Austin Croshere, Scot Pollard, and now Stephen Jackson's long contracts. Atleast we aren't the Knicks!

bulletproof
07-10-2004, 09:11 PM
Guys, it's not the Harrington for Jackson or just acquiring Jackson stuff that disturbs me.... it's the terms of the contract.

The length and amount of this contract will hurt in the end, IMHO.

We're locking Jackson up in his prime. 26-32. Pretty smart, if you ask me. And considering what the FA market is like right now, we did damn well.

bulletproof
07-10-2004, 09:12 PM
Lets see, we got stuck with Austin Croshere, Scot Pollard, and now Stephen Jackson's long contracts. Atleast we aren't the Knicks!

So I take it you only post when there's something you want to ***** about.

bulletproof
07-10-2004, 09:13 PM
One interesting note Ron ARtest and Jackson are # 2 and #3 among Small Forwards in steals

That's a pretty nice stat.

able
07-10-2004, 09:29 PM
I'm just glad UB is having fun eating a pizza, he'd go ballistic if he read those numbers and I feel for him just because he's right.
Polly can't help it, he was traded here, doesn't fit (seemingly) but this IS another Cro contract, no matter how you look at it, the number only got worse, nothing against the player, just the numbers.

But I will take it as a man, being glad that we kept Tins and Ron (what I hope this means) and only traded a sulk for a sulk who can shoot somewhat.

BTW he's not a SF but a SG :)

Ragnar
07-10-2004, 09:36 PM
I love this deal. We now have a guy who will take the open shot rather than pass it like Reggie did in the playoffs. We have a sg with a championship ring. We have a sg who averages 18 ppg, who played better in the second half than he did in the first.

This is the best news I have read in a long time. We traded a player who wanted to go and got a player at a position we needed help at. We did not lose Tins we did not lose Ron we did not lose Jermaine. We lost a guy who's entire game was duplicated one or two times over with other players on the team.

Dont get me wrong I will miss Al. I have enjoyed watching him progress as a Pacer and would have loved to see him remaine a Pacer for his entire career. But the bottom line is that he is the guy who we could do without the most who had any value.

We were not going to move Pollard or Cro for an 18 ppg sg. Just because we were duped into taking Pollard does not mean we will be able to do the same to another team. (although I am still crossing my fingers that Portland will want Freddie so bad that they will take Pollard and Fred for Dale)

bulletproof
07-10-2004, 10:11 PM
I love this deal. We now have a guy who will take the open shot rather than pass it like Reggie did in the playoffs. We have a sg with a championship ring. We have a sg who averages 18 ppg, who played better in the second half than he did in the first.

This is the best news I have read in a long time. We traded a player who wanted to go and got a player at a position we needed help at. We did not lose Tins we did not lose Ron we did not lose Jermaine. We lost a guy who's entire game was duplicated one or two times over with other players on the team.

:applaud:

Kstat
07-10-2004, 10:16 PM
I love this deal. We now have a guy who will take the open shot rather than pass it like Reggie did in the playoffs. We have a sg with a championship ring. We have a sg who averages 18 ppg, who played better in the second half than he did in the first.

This is the best news I have read in a long time. We traded a player who wanted to go and got a player at a position we needed help at. We did not lose Tins we did not lose Ron we did not lose Jermaine. We lost a guy who's entire game was duplicated one or two times over with other players on the team.

:applaud:


Thats probably what I like best about Jackson. He's got a killer instinct. He LOVES taking the big shots late in games.

Young
07-10-2004, 10:26 PM
Good signing.

Its probably best that we did not get Terry too btw. Tinsley has more playoff expierence.

Snickers
07-10-2004, 10:32 PM
Just got home and read this. We finally did something! Whoo! :dance:

I like this, because we didn't blow up the team to get a star like a lot of folks wanted us to; we made a logical move to fill a hole and accomodate a player's desire to start for another team.

I also like the fact that we have a young, athletic, good-shooting 2-guard locked up for 6 years. :D

bulletproof
07-10-2004, 10:39 PM
Just got home and read this. We finally did something! Whoo! :dance:

I like this, because we didn't blow up the team to get a star like a lot of folks wanted us to; we made a logical move to fill a hole and accomodate a player's desire to start for another team.

I also like the fact that we have a young, athletic, good-shooting 2-guard locked up for 6 years. :D

Amen.

Arcadian
07-10-2004, 10:41 PM
After thinking about it I can live with it.

Yeah, the contract looks big but its hard to tell about these things. Fosters looked big too many and Cro at the time didn't raise as many eyebrows. But so far what's happening in the market Jackson contract is about right. I mean Crawford is reportedly offered 70 mil.

I do believe that Al is a better player. If the Hawks get Martin they are a lock as a playoff team and a promising team with Al, Terry, K-mart and this years draft.

On the other hand I believe this is the best we could have done without blowing up the team. SJ is proven in an inside out offense, he's promising and will imporve, won't take ball handling responsiblities away from Ron, brings things to the team that we did have before. I am glad we got a swing man as opposed to a combo guard, too. It makes us more flexible and gives hight to our backcourt.

Short term it's good. The question longer term is if he is the answer at SG. If not we will look back at it as a bad trade.

bulletproof
07-10-2004, 10:49 PM
I do believe that Al is a better player.

Short term it's good. The question longer term is if he is the answer at SG. If not we will look back at it as a bad trade.

I can only imagine what you said after the Jermaine for Dale trade.

Kstat
07-10-2004, 10:53 PM
I DO think that AL's stats will dwarf Jackson's stats next year. But the Pacers will be better with jackson.

Arcadian
07-10-2004, 10:55 PM
....

zxc
07-10-2004, 10:59 PM
won't take ball handling responsiblities away from Ron


This is a good thing? One thing I was really hoping for was to get an SG with good handles to help out the PG. I really don't like Ron dominating the ball so much. I hope Jackson can do some of that at least but he isn't really that great in that area. Better then Reggie though I guess.

bulletproof
07-10-2004, 11:08 PM
I DO think that AL's stats will dwarf Jackson's stats next year. But the Pacers will be better with jackson.


Dwarf? I don't think so. Of course, Al will be a starter and a go-to guy, so his numbers are sure to improve whereas Jackson will be another piece of the puzzle for the Pacers.

75Ranger
07-10-2004, 11:23 PM
Don't be surprised to see Al score 16-18pts and 8bds a game. Hes still young and has upside, I hate to see him go but we needed to balance our roster out and if he didn't want to be hear whats the point of keeping him. I think he'll clearly put up better numbers then Jackson will.

Kstat
07-10-2004, 11:28 PM
I DO think that AL's stats will dwarf Jackson's stats next year. But the Pacers will be better with jackson.


Dwarf? I don't think so. Of course, Al will be a starter and a go-to guy, so his numbers are sure to improve whereas Jackson will be another piece of the puzzle for the Pacers.



You get my point though, Jackson's number will go down from last year, but as a part of the system he will do more than Al did.

SkipperZ
07-10-2004, 11:44 PM
???!?!?

i dont friggin understand.... Atlanta would not have signed jackson, the pacers could have easily had him for the midlevel for 6 years which is less than he's getting in this sign and trade....

i think i am correct in assuming this....

So why the hell give up a tradable asset for him?! i understand salary concerns but would denver or the clippers (if the kobe thing didnt pan out) or any other team able to absorb harrington's contract not give us a servicable player making the minimum plus a first rounder or two for harrington? Even if we just got a first rounder from another team, il thats better than getting practically nothing from atlanta...

Kstat
07-10-2004, 11:49 PM
???!?!?

i dont friggin understand.... Atlanta would not have signed jackson, the pacers could have easily had him for the midlevel for 6 years which is less than he's getting in this sign and trade....

i think i am correct in assuming this....

So why the hell give up a tradable asset for him?! i understand salary concerns but would denver or the clippers (if the kobe thing didnt pan out) or any other team able to absorb harrington's contract not give us a servicable player making the minimum plus a first rounder or two for harrington? Even if we just got a first rounder from another team, il thats better than getting practically nothing from atlanta...



Sure, Atlanta wouldnt have signed jackson for that amount. But somebody else WOULD have. Indiana simply didnt have the cap room to give Jackson the $$$ he wanted, so they needed Atlanta's help. By offering Harrington, the Pacers ensured that Jackson would be going to THEIR team.

This isnt like Jackson demanded a trade to indiana. He was simply going to a good team for the contract he wanted. I doubt he would have signed with indiana for the MLE.

Ultimate Frisbee
07-11-2004, 12:10 AM
First off... I'm not sure if I compeletly understand the reasoning behind the deal... We could have signed Jackson to the full MLE because he wanted to be here (and SA signed Brent Barry for less than the MLE albiet), and we could have traded Al for a backup point guard at minimum...

But... I like the deal in general... We get Jackson, who I find out is a huge 6'8" SG who is athletic and can SCORE both from outside and inside... I'm not sure if his defense is that great, but I'm sure he can defend the SF position better than Reggie in many instances, so we can switch Ron onto the opposing SG on D.

Also, we get rid of Al, who I will miss, but who will also benefit from being in Atlanta and starting. This will allow us to give virtually everyone more minutes due to the flexibility of most of our players on their position, but most notably Bender and Croshere.

I'm pretty happy with our team right now... we retain most of the things that made us the winningest regualar season team last year... the only things that I think we need are perhaps another body to go against Shaq and perhaps a PG (any word on AJ???)

able
07-11-2004, 12:12 AM
Not quite Kstat, I think they could've signed him to the MLE, but then would have to find relieve in a contract somewhere, unless they wanted their payroll to go bananas.

With still a small backup need to fill we are still one of the top 5 payroll teams in the league, signing Jackson and keeping a contract the size of Al's was not possible, hence the trade was born.

J-Wont
07-11-2004, 12:12 AM
I think, given the minutes, Jacksons stats will eclipse Hamiltons.
And for those of you who think Jackson is a stat-padder and cant put up his Atlanta numbers on a good team, here's his per-48 stats for his final year with the Spurs and last year with the Hawks.
Spurs 21.8 3.9 3.9
Hawks 23.7 4.0 6.0
*FLUSH* <-- the sound of any thoughts that Stephen Jackson is a statpadder going down the toilet.

SkipperZ
07-11-2004, 12:14 AM
my point is we couldve gotten cap relief elsewherer and gotten a first rounder out of it.

we better be getting an unprotected future first from atlanta in this deal..

able
07-11-2004, 12:18 AM
perhaps, not so sure about that though but yes likely <shrug> ours is not to wonder why I guess :D

Kstat
07-11-2004, 12:19 AM
my point is we couldve gotten cap relief elsewherer and gotten a first rounder out of it.

we better be getting an unprotected future first from atlanta in this deal..

You got stephen jackson out of the deal.

Anthem
07-11-2004, 12:25 AM
Don't be surprised to see Al score 16-18pts and 8bds a game. Hes still young and has upside, I hate to see him go but we needed to balance our roster out and if he didn't want to be hear whats the point of keeping him. I think he'll clearly put up better numbers then Jackson will.

Seeing Al put up 16ppg on the Hawks wouldn't surprise me in the least. I'd be surprised if he didn't do more than that.

That's still below what S.Jax did on that team, though.

SkipperZ
07-11-2004, 12:45 AM
my point is we couldve gotten cap relief elsewherer and gotten a first rounder out of it.

we better be getting an unprotected future first from atlanta in this deal..

You got stephen jackson out of the deal.

i dont know i REALLY think we couldve gotten him regardless

PacerMan
07-11-2004, 01:22 AM
Really sucks we are just giving Al away.. :(

Sucks we have so much money tied up owners won't let us just sign the guy outright like we obviously could since it's just the exception. If only they had just let Brad walk last year instead of bringing in Pollard and his crap deal =\

Go crawl back under the rock from whence you came.




Join him then. I agree with him totally.

PacerMan
07-11-2004, 01:25 AM
???!?!?

i dont friggin understand.... Atlanta would not have signed jackson, the pacers could have easily had him for the midlevel for 6 years which is less than he's getting in this sign and trade....

i think i am correct in assuming this....

So why the hell give up a tradable asset for him?! i understand salary concerns but would denver or the clippers (if the kobe thing didnt pan out) or any other team able to absorb harrington's contract not give us a servicable player making the minimum plus a first rounder or two for harrington? Even if we just got a first rounder from another team, il thats better than getting practically nothing from atlanta...



Sure, Atlanta wouldnt have signed jackson for that amount. But somebody else WOULD have. Indiana simply didnt have the cap room to give Jackson the $$$ he wanted, so they needed Atlanta's help. By offering Harrington, the Pacers ensured that Jackson would be going to THEIR team.

This isnt like Jackson demanded a trade to indiana. He was simply going to a good team for the contract he wanted. I doubt he would have signed with indiana for the MLE.






Hey! Sometimes, when you're not spouting PIstons ****, you make some sense. :laugh:

bulletproof
07-11-2004, 01:39 AM
This isnt like Jackson demanded a trade to indiana. He was simply going to a good team for the contract he wanted. I doubt he would have signed with indiana for the MLE.

Excellent point. There comes a time in a man's life when he knows his worth (or is able to bluff it) and won't settle for anything less. And if he doesn't, he will always undervalue himself.

Young
07-11-2004, 01:44 AM
I got some questions for those who are against the deal.

What were you expecting for Harrington?

Did you want us to trade him for Dampier?

God I hope not.:laugh:

Did you think we were going to get Pierce for Harrington and Croshere or something?

Did you not hear that Harrington doesn't want to play in Indaian because he wants to start?

TheSauceMaster
07-11-2004, 02:02 AM
When you guys are sitting around here in Summer of 2006 wondering who the hell will take Jackson's contract away from us, don't tell me I told you so.

Terrible, terrible deal.

Excuse me while I go look for some rope and a tree.


Goood then I wont have to listen to your senseless drivel anymore :rolleyes:

Fool
07-11-2004, 02:21 AM
Here are the only things that really matter in this deal. (IMO of course)

1) Your entire team is still in place.

2) You now have a SG who has spent an entire year being the go to guy.

3) You have him signed forever and for a lot of money.

Only #3 has a risk to it and I think its rather small. Jackson established himself as a legit starter last year and at the very worst he will be an over-paid mediocre SG.

If Carlisle is allowed to start Reggie next year with this deal happening then your entire team should fold. You just don't pay 3 of your bench players more than 3 of your starters (I might be a bit off on the contracts but you get the message).

If you look up the back story on Jackson you will see that last year at this time Jackson over valued himself and got left to the Hawks because he assumed other teams would just throw money at him. Once in Atl instead of sulking and throwing his career away he decided to work himself into a player that would demand the contract that he thought he would get the previous year. If he doesn't become content and let his game fall after getting the contract he has worked for this last year then you have yourself a solid person (not just a solid player) which I know you Indiana folk love. So I hope, and being optimistic I would expect, that his ego last off season has been checked and he has now grown into a valuable player.

SoupIsGood
07-11-2004, 02:37 AM
Some of you guys are so wishy-washy. You may hate the trade now, but you will like it in half a week (the DH pick). Get over your shock people. He's not getting paid too much (Cardinal got 39 mil), he's a good player, and the only realistic possiblitly at SG anyway .

Now we just have to rid oursleves of Artest and we're good :D

Kstat
07-11-2004, 02:40 AM
Here are the only things that really matter in this deal. (IMO of course)

1) Your entire team is still in place.

2) You now have a SG who has spent an entire year being the go to guy.

3) You have him signed forever and for a lot of money.

Only #3 has a risk to it and I think its rather small. Jackson established himself as a legit starter last year and at the very worst he will be an over-paid mediocre SG.

If Carlisle is allowed to start Reggie next year with this deal happening then your entire team should fold. You just don't pay 3 of your bench players more than 3 of your starters (I might be a bit off on the contracts but you get the message).

If you look up the back story on Jackson you will see that last year at this time Jackson over valued himself and got left to the Hawks because he assumed other teams would just throw money at him. Once in Atl instead of sulking and throwing his career away he decided to work himself into a player that would demand the contract that he thought he would get the previous year. If he doesn't become content and let his game fall after getting the contract he has worked for this last year then you have yourself a solid person (not just a solid player) which I know you Indiana folk love. So I hope, and being optimistic I would expect, that his ego last off season has been checked and he has now grown into a valuable player.


I agree with everything that you just said. I can't believe that I agree more with a Pistons fan than most of the posters on this forum.

Fool and K-stat, I am curious how you think this move along with the McDyess signing is going to affect the match-ups between our teams next year.
Personally, I see us playing Jackson against Prince and sticking Artest to Hamilton (as literally as possible). I think that in Brown's system, McDyess will be a significant upgrade for the Pistons. I think that both teams just got a lot more competitive.


Im pretty sure Carlisle will keep Jackson on Hamilton, because Artest is just a bad matchup. Yeah he can stay close for 3 quarters, but did you see Ron in the 4th? His hand on his shorts were the only thing keeping him upright, , and rip was running circles around him. Jackson isnt a great defender, but I think if Carlsile wants any 4th qtr production out of ron, he'll have to stick with Jackson and Reggie on Rip.

As for McDyess, assuming he doesnt get hurt again, he's still strong as a bull and he still goes to the basket like a man posessed.. He's a textbook larry brown big man. Our frontcourt will be better defensively than last year, and better on the glass. Offensively, it remains to be seen just how much of Dyce's hops are left. But defensively and on the boards, he's still a menace.

Kstat
07-11-2004, 02:50 AM
Well, we had campbell as our muscle last year, and apparently we will this year too. Its just that he'll be the 4th big off the bench instead of the 3rd, as he was much of the ECF.

SoupIsGood
07-11-2004, 03:04 AM
If Millicic (sp?) and McDyess have good years next year, the rest of the league might as well throw in the towel.

Fool
07-11-2004, 03:31 AM
(To answer an earlier question)
I think Artest did show that he can be effective defensively against Hamilton and I think it would be a mistake not to take advantage of that. So I think Artest will be on Rip the majority of the time (though not exclusively) but Carlisle will watch closer that Artest gets rest (or switches off if needed) whenever possible.

Jackson does what the Pacers need in that he hits open or somewhat gaurded shots. He can also score off the dribble and so if a game gets as closed off as the ECF series was Jackson can still produce by creating for himself. The SG position was (IMO) the key difference in the series and you now have closed off the whole you had there.

I think its a good point that Mc Dyess does what Brown wants from that position and I think (if he is healthy) he provides a good contrast offensively to Rasheed. I think the back-up sf/sg position will be better (if only offensively) with Delfino (if he does come over) and I think those two moves (weighing in how little Brown played Memo) on Detroit's side and Jackson starting for the Pacers keep both teams close if not make them even tighter match-ups. The Pacers are now more balanced in their starting 5 (which Detroit had an edge in last season) and Detroit is deeper on the bench (which Indiana had an edge in last season).

That being said I don't think a playoff series between the two teams would be as tight next year as both coaches will have had an entire year to further individualize their respective teams.

BostonConnection
07-11-2004, 07:44 AM
Why do these things always happen when I'm on vacation? Jeez, you leave town for a few days and the next thing you know, Al is traded and Shaq's (apparently) on his way to Miami.

I've got another trip scheduled in a couple of weeks - perfect timing for another big Pacers announcement? :rolleyes: ;) :D

scar
07-11-2004, 08:44 AM
If that announcement were about Reggie's sudden retirement, I'd welcome it.

75Ranger
07-11-2004, 10:59 AM
Don't be surprised to see Al score 16-18pts and 8bds a game. Hes still young and has upside, I hate to see him go but we needed to balance our roster out and if he didn't want to be hear whats the point of keeping him. I think he'll clearly put up better numbers then Jackson will.



Seeing Al put up 16ppg on the Hawks wouldn't surprise me in the least. I'd be surprised if he didn't do more than that.

That's still below what S.Jax did on that team, though.


I think this is what he'll average if hes playing with Kenyon Martin which I think has a good chance of happening. If the Hawks don't add much to FA and
Harrington is there major addition he'll average 20pts a game for that team.Good move for the Hawks.

J-Wont
07-11-2004, 11:41 AM
Milicic will never breakout. He just doesn't have the talent that the ignorant scouts said he had. Then again, these are the same scouts who thought Michael Olowakandi was the next Shaq and Tractor Traylor was the next Barkley :laugh:
As for McDyess, he's pretty bad now. Suns fans are reporting McDyess' knees are so bad he literally cried on the bench, and he jumps like Mark Jackson. I'm satisfied with the Pistons overpaying :p

Anthem
07-11-2004, 02:12 PM
Milicic will never breakout. He just doesn't have the talent that the ignorant scouts said he had. Then again, these are the same scouts who thought Michael Olowakandi was the next Shaq and Tractor Traylor was the next Barkley

Or that Bender was the next Garnett....

Kegboy
07-11-2004, 03:15 PM
The stats are meaningless. This is the team where Sura turned into Mr. Triple Double.



:laugh:

I'm tempted to make that my new sig.

Jose Slaughter
07-11-2004, 04:35 PM
These numbers might be off a little but if the deal is for 6 years at 44M, this is might be the year by year numbers.

1. 5,866,600

2. 6,453,260

3. 7,039,920

4. 7,626,580

5. 8,213,240

6. 8,799,900

Total 43,999,500

SycamoreKen
07-12-2004, 08:15 AM
Why do these things always happen when I'm on vacation? Jeez, you leave town for a few days and the next thing you know, Al is traded and Shaq's (apparently) on his way to Miami.

I've got another trip scheduled in a couple of weeks - perfect timing for another big Pacers announcement? :rolleyes: ;) :D

I'm with you BC. I'm gone from Wed. to Sat. and everything goes crazy. I'm leaving town next week, so something WILL go down.

As for picking up S. Jackson, I like it. He has a fire and push to do well. He has a great relationship to Coach Brown, if he's still here since I haven't read any other threads. He can be a good defender when he puts his mind to it, as he did down here in SA.

I too wonder why many think we could have gotten more for Al? Do you think they didn't get the best deal they could?

indygeezer
07-12-2004, 08:33 AM
Why do these things always happen when I'm on vacation? Jeez, you leave town for a few days and the next thing you know, Al is traded and Shaq's (apparently) on his way to Miami.

I've got another trip scheduled in a couple of weeks - perfect timing for another big Pacers announcement? :rolleyes: ;) :D

I'm with you BC. I'm gone from Wed. to Sat. and everything goes crazy. I'm leaving town next week, so something WILL go down.

As for picking up S. Jackson, I like it. He has a fire and push to do well. He has a great relationship to Coach Brown, if he's still here since I haven't read any other threads. He can be a good defender when he puts his mind to it, as he did down here in SA.

I too wonder why many think we could have gotten more for Al? Do you think they didn't get the best deal they could?





Me too,but I expected it. Last year I went to Michigan and we hired Bird. I went back up and we fired Thomas. So I was fully expecting something this trip. (Um, I know I'm going back up for the Mich/Mich St game Oct 30, so...).

Admittedly, I'm not as up on Jax as I need to be. Can he play defense? Can he be a team player? 3 point shooter? Mid-range shooter?

naptownmenace
07-12-2004, 09:03 AM
This trade is about the best the Pacers could hope for without trading Ron.

I've been a Stephen Jackson fan since he stuck it to the Lakers and Nets in the 2003 Playoffs. San Antonio made a huge mistake in not resigning him IMO - especially since they cut Ron Mercer halfway through the season. They sure could've used him in their series with the Lakers this year when Turkoglu was throwing up brick after brick.

I actually think that Jackson will fit perfectly with the Pacers and the loss of Al's production will be replaced by Bender, Croshere, and Freddie. I love this trade.

As far as the money is concerned, Al's making the same for the next 2 seasons anyway and after that he'll command a raise. So, I look at that as a wash.

Welcome Jax!

marcd
07-12-2004, 09:10 AM
When you guys are sitting around here in Summer of 2006 wondering who the hell will take Jackson's contract away from us, don't tell me I told you so.

Terrible, terrible deal.

Excuse me while I go look for some rope and a tree.

I have been out of town this weekend and came back to the "news" and then find posts like this one running rampant. Is it just me or do some people need to take off their blue and gold colored glasses and realize that AL isn't worth what they think he is worth? I know we have heard for the past two years "he could be starting on most NBA teams", but I don't think you would see him starting on many "elite" teams. He is a good player, but not a great player. He isn't in the same realm as JO or Artest and I think a few of our "jaded" fans need to realize that and realize you are getting about equal value for AL and the Pacers are filling a need that many of us have been screaming about since the end of the season.

I certainly think that if we had a player like SJ during the Detroit Series we would have stood a better chance of beating them.

As for the length of the contract, we could go the other route and say we could be in 2010 and have signed AL for the Max and still be wondering why the heck his is the only 6th man with a max deal???? And how come he only averages 12 points a game and disappears in the Playoffs??? (just being devil's advocate)

I am sorry to see him go, but welcome the change and think that we got fair market value for him. Average player for average player. Don't cry about the price, all freakin' average players in the NBA make way too much money!

MarcD

BillS
07-12-2004, 09:28 AM
(From an Atlanta local viewpoint)

Jackson is not as exciting a player as Terry or Crawford can be and he certainly doesn't have a reputation as a killer, but he is a good solid dependable SG who shoots well and can create his own scoring opportunities.

I don't recall much about him on defense, which probably means he is average. If he was exceptionally good, I'd notice, same if he was exceptionally bad.

I think this is a good pickup, and comparing a contract that averages less than 6-mil a year through 2009 season (6 yr 44 mil) to Cro's contract which was higher than that (7 hear 51 mil) and was in 2001 dollars is reaching. I think we'll see Jackson as a bargain when we are approaching those last years of the contract. My opinion is also colored by the fact that I think Austin was basically destroyed by The Coach Whom We Do Not Name. I think he could have been a much greater contributor given someone willing to use him properly, but that's another thread.

BillS
07-12-2004, 09:34 AM
I think this is a good pickup, and comparing a contract that averages less than 6-mil a year through 2009 season (6 yr 44 mil) to Cro's contract which was higher than that (7 hear 51 mil) and was in 2001 dollars is reaching. I think we'll see Jackson as a bargain when we are approaching those last years of the contract. My opinion is also colored by the fact that I think Austin was basically destroyed by The Coach Whom We Do Not Name. I think he could have been a much greater contributor given someone willing to use him properly, but that's another thread.

WARNING

Please ignore the bogus math in the previous message.

I get my 8 and 6 mixed up on Monday mornings due to a rare form of stupidity.

Leave it that a contract averaging the same numerical value but 4 years later is worth less due to inflation ...

boy, do I feel dumb this morning ...

Shade
07-14-2006, 04:41 PM
:bump:

This is a great read right now. :D

NaptownBound
07-14-2006, 04:43 PM
my, how things change?

SycamoreKen
07-14-2006, 05:28 PM
When you guys are sitting around here in Summer of 2006 wondering who the hell will take Jackson's contract away from us, don't tell me I told you so.

Terrible, terrible deal.

Excuse me while I go look for some rope and a tree.

:ding:

This sounds familiar somehow.....:chin2:

Fireball Kid
07-14-2006, 05:44 PM
Who is Evan "Pantsfish" Wade?

MSA2CF
07-14-2006, 05:49 PM
:ding:

This sounds familiar somehow.....:chin2:

You da man, Ken! :rock: Unfortunately...

SycamoreKen
07-14-2006, 06:03 PM
You da man, Ken! :rock: Unfortunately...

I wish I could take credit for writing it, but I can't. It was just what jumped out most to me in the thread, which I didn't get all of the way through.

MSA2CF
07-14-2006, 06:18 PM
I wish I could take credit for writing it, but I can't. It was just what jumped out most to me in the thread, which I didn't get all of the way through.

I should have probably paid more attention to who was being quoted, shouldn't I have? :brick:

Unclebuck
07-14-2006, 07:55 PM
Well I'm proud to say I did not post in this trade, so I can deny all accountability

Lord Helmet
07-14-2006, 08:03 PM
Well I'm proud to say I did not post in this trade, so I can deny all accountability
:laugh:

Shade
07-14-2006, 08:16 PM
Good signing.

Its probably best that we did not get Terry too btw. Tinsley has more playoff expierence.

:suicide2:

Jermaniac
07-14-2006, 09:28 PM
Well I'm proud to say I did not post in this trade, so I can deny all accountability
I never wanted him

Slick Pinkham
07-14-2006, 10:15 PM
Awesome. Great deal. We are set for a long time. I would much rather have jackson than many of the players that people on this board have been talking about trading Al for...

I guarantee that Jackson will be a starter in this league for the next 5-10 years.

To me this was a great deal. I have no idea if we could have just signed him outright, but if the Simons don't want to go over a certain amount, I don't see any way we were going to get salary relief.

Awesome.:dance:


OK, the author of this quote has been deleted somehow.

My guess is that it's a friend of able's who has managed to get his identity deleted on that post.

Maybe it was UncleBuck!

Hoop
07-14-2006, 10:22 PM
Cool we signed SJax :yay:

Shade
07-14-2006, 10:24 PM
Cool we signed SJax :yay:

:laugh:

Well, it did happen on July 10th, and today is July 14th. :shrug:

Unclebuck
07-14-2006, 10:27 PM
OK, the author of this quote has been deleted somehow.

My guess is that it's a friend of able's who has managed to get his identity deleted on that post.

Maybe it was UncleBuck!



No, I never use the dancing banana so it can't be me

Slick Pinkham
07-14-2006, 10:35 PM
No, I never use the dancing banana so it can't be me

:dance:



didn't edit it in time, did ya UB?


:devil:


;)

pizza guy
07-14-2006, 10:36 PM
This thread makes me sick...:puke:

tadscout
07-14-2006, 10:46 PM
Hell yeah!!! :dance:

:lynchmob: :hang:

Shade
07-14-2006, 10:48 PM
I think the "stealth poster" might be VA.

Ralph Snart
07-14-2006, 11:12 PM
The best part of reading this thread is how young and lively Kstat seemed, basking in the glow of a fresh championship. Now he's grown bitter and distant, like a housewife with three kids and a philandering husband. :D

vapacersfan
07-14-2006, 11:42 PM
I think the "stealth poster" might be VA.

I honestly do not remember this far back, but on page two I do have a post credited to myself where I comment on Artest and Jackson being so close in the "steals" dept., and I am listed as "vapacersfan".

I am not really sure who that "stealth poster" is, I would assume it is Btown, but I guess it could hypothetically be me.............

Ransom
07-15-2006, 01:40 AM
The Jackson signing is brilliant and makes the Pacers the favorites for next year. They just replaced an old, washed up Reggie Miller with an 18 ppg scorer who's worlds better defensively, is better rebounder, and a better passer.

Ouch...

SycamoreKen
07-15-2006, 07:36 AM
I'm with you BC. I'm gone from Wed. to Sat. and everything goes crazy. I'm leaving town next week, so something WILL go down.

As for picking up S. Jackson, I like it. He has a fire and push to do well. He has a great relationship to Coach Brown, if he's still here since I haven't read any other threads. He can be a good defender when he puts his mind to it, as he did down here in SA.

I too wonder why many think we could have gotten more for Al? Do you think they didn't get the best deal they could?

After reading the rest of the thread I gues I did chime in on the trade. I'm not embarrassed about liking it at the time considering my disclaimers.

Unclebuck
07-15-2006, 08:09 AM
I remember what I thought at the time.

Sorry to see Al go, but we needed a shooting guard so I thought it was a good trade. Even though I thought at the time that Al was the better player. If I would have given it a grade of some sort, I probably would have given it a B -

D-BONE
07-15-2006, 08:58 AM
It is kind of amusing to see the initial reaction in light of what's transpired. I'm sure many people felt this was a reasonable trade at the time given the circumstances. I know I did.

Although I recognize he caused major frustration/friction on the team and with the public last season, he does have some positive attributes that have been discussed. Certainly last year they did not outweigh the negatives overall by any means.

The issue is I'm not very optimistic the we can move him along this offseason so I hope if he's back things can somehow be stabilized on both sides (Rick and Jack) such that he can make some more positive contribution.

If he/they were to get things straightened out I think he could help us/ preferably in a more limited way on offense. Since I think things have gone so far south with him, I'd be content to see him shipped out, I just wonder how realistic that is.

What do you think the chances are he'll be here next season? If he's not, what would you realistically expect to get in return?

able
07-15-2006, 09:48 AM
I can read this back with amusement, after all I said it was a bad trade, but somehow I always hated the "I told you so" thing after a while, it saddens me that this had to happen to the Pacers.

Los Angeles
07-15-2006, 10:50 AM
The really, really, really sad part is that we sure could have used Harrington during all the Artest suspensions.

He wanted to start ... and would have started on a very good team if only he had shown just a little more patience.

cariocapacer
07-15-2006, 01:10 PM
I had know problem signing Jackson but I thought it was stupid to let Al go. We could have signed Jackson for almost the same deal with the MLE and not given up Al. It sure would make where we are today a little more palatable if it had gone down like that.

SoupIsGood
07-15-2006, 01:10 PM
Can we edit the "Breaking News" part out?

Destined4Greatness
07-15-2006, 02:11 PM
I had know problem signing Jackson but I thought it was stupid to let Al go. We could have signed Jackson for almost the same deal with the MLE and not given up Al. It sure would make where we are today a little more palatable if it had gone down like that.

Obviously you don't know your facts, or contract info. Harrington wanted to be traded.

Robertmto
07-15-2006, 05:56 PM
I wasn't around back then, but I thot it was a good trade.

Sollozzo
07-15-2006, 07:50 PM
Obviously you don't know your facts, or contract info. Harrington wanted to be traded.


But we could have signed Jax and traded Harrington for something else to make us better, couldn't we?

Shade
07-15-2006, 08:06 PM
But we could have signed Jax and traded Harrington for something else to make us better, couldn't we?

Not w/o exceeding the luxury tax threshold. Jack wanted more than the MLE.

2 years later, and we're still having this argument. :laugh:

Unclebuck
07-15-2006, 08:10 PM
Can we edit the "Breaking News" part out?



I agree, everytime I log back in "Breaking News" catches my eyes, and I have to think for a split second

Shade
07-15-2006, 08:40 PM
Fixed, you whiners. :tongue:

Arcadian
07-15-2006, 09:03 PM
I agree, everytime I log back in "Breaking News" catches my eyes, and I have to think for a split second

Thinking is inconvenient even for split seconds. ;)

Unclebuck
07-15-2006, 09:57 PM
Wow, maybe I should ask for something else.



Thanks

Shade
07-15-2006, 10:30 PM
Wow, maybe I should ask for something else.



Thanks

You already got this and Quis. Stop being greedy. :tongue:

Anthem
07-16-2006, 12:05 AM
Wow, maybe I should ask for something else.
What would you ask for?

cariocapacer
07-17-2006, 10:26 AM
Obviously you don't know your facts, or contract info. Harrington wanted to be traded.

Actually, it is you who are talking out of school as I know my facts and contract info quite well.

I donīt really care if Al wanted to be traded, I wouldnīt have traded him unless I got somthing in return (Jackson at the same price as a MLE is not anything of value in my opinion.)

Even if you apease Al, are you saying he had no value (not even a 2nd round pick)? I would have rather have kept Al than get Jackson. More preferable would have been trrade Al for something of value and also have signed Jax.

I suggest you keep quiet before you go around accusing people of what they know or donīt know when you are clueless about the truth.

JayRedd
07-17-2006, 10:33 AM
I agree, everytime I log back in "Breaking News" catches my eyes, and I have to think for a split second

Yall almost had me convinced that we just signed this guy to an extension somehow. This thread title is dangerous.