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View Full Version : Pacers mentioned in Shaq derby again - Not offering JO



kerosene
07-09-2004, 03:36 AM
Meanwhile, Kupchak is sensing the end of the free-agency period, the organization fearing Bryant will not re-sign if O'Neal is on the roster come Wednesday, the first day free agents can sign new contracts.

As of Thursday night, NBA sources said, the Dallas Mavericks, Indiana Pacers and Miami Heat were making the strongest pushes to acquire O'Neal. The Mavericks' Dirk Nowitzki, the Pacers' Jermaine O'Neal and Heat's Dwyane Wade were not part of any offers, insiders said, and it is possible the first team to come off its untouchable player gets Shaq.

Still, said one Laker official, "There are opportunities for us."

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-lakers9jul09,1,7865482.story?coll=la-headlines-sports

Shade
07-09-2004, 11:07 AM
I really don't like Shaq, but if we can unload our bad contracts for him, it might be worth a shot. Then we can let him walk at the end of the season and clear a buttload of capspace for FAs.

Cro, Pollard, Foster, and Al for Shaq?

Shade
07-09-2004, 11:09 AM
I have a feeling Shaq may become a Knick. They're one of the few teams with enough bad contracts to make a deal. If the Lakers become desperate to re-sign Kobe, that means taking virtually anything they can get for Shaq.

Then Sheed signs with the Knicks. :eek:

Suaveness
07-09-2004, 11:11 AM
If that happened, Isiah would be considered a genius.

And I can go back to hating the Knicks guts with utmost passion. Not that I don't now, but they suck anyway.

Kid Minneapolis
07-09-2004, 11:14 AM
Isiah can't pull that off.

MSA2CF
07-09-2004, 11:22 AM
Any team has the possibility of landing Shaq. It's just a matter of how many air traffic controllers are going to die in the process. :neutral:

Shade
07-09-2004, 11:28 AM
L.A. Lakers trades: C Shaquille O'Neal (21.5 ppg, 11.5 rpg, 2.9 apg in 36.8 minutes)
L.A. Lakers receives: PF Mike Sweetney (4.3 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 0.3 apg in 11.8 minutes)
C Dikembe Mutombo (5.6 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 0.4 apg in 23.0 minutes)
C Kurt Thomas (11.1 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 1.9 apg in 31.9 minutes)
SG Anfernee Hardaway (9.2 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 2.3 apg in 27.6 minutes)

Change in team outlook: +8.7 ppg, +11.0 rpg, and +2.0 apg.

New York trades: PF Mike Sweetney (4.3 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 0.3 apg in 11.8 minutes)
C Dikembe Mutombo (5.6 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 0.4 apg in 23.0 minutes)
C Kurt Thomas (11.1 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 1.9 apg in 31.9 minutes)
SG Anfernee Hardaway (9.2 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 2.3 apg in 27.6 minutes)
New York receives: C Shaquille O'Neal (21.5 ppg, 11.5 rpg, 2.9 apg in 67 games)
Change in team outlook: -8.7 ppg, -11.0 rpg, and -2.0 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Due to L.A. Lakers and New York being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. L.A. Lakers and New York had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.[/b]

There are tons of trades that could be worked out between these two teams. NY has a lot of high salary contracts.

Knicks' new roster:

C - Shaq/Mohammad/Trybanski
PF - Sheed/Thomas/Harrington
SF - Anderson/Ariza
SG - Houston
PG - Marbury/Noris/Williams

They would need to beef up the 2-spot, but damn. :eek:

Lakers' new roster:

C - Thomas/Mutombo
PF - Sweetney/Cook/Douthit
SF - Walton/George
SG - Bryant/Hardaway/Rush/Vujacic
PG - Payton

The Lakers only currently have 9 players under contract, and Fox is likely to retire, so they will need to fill in at the 4 and 1.

Shade
07-09-2004, 11:37 AM
That would be an awful trade. Why would they pass up Lamar Odom and probably Caron Butler or Jamer Nelson plus Brian Grant and Malik Allen for THAT? or even Artest, Harrington, Pollard, Croshere, and maybe Jones? I don't want to claim that the Pacers probable offer is the greatest, but it's certainly better than the Knicks.

Well, yeah...IF those offers are on the table. If not, then the Lakers have to take what they can get, and the Knicks have enough high-salary contracts to make it work.

At this point, everyone knows the Lakers are desperate to unload Shaq, and are going to try to rip them off in any way possible. And there's little LA can do about it.

Isn't Jameer in Orlando? :confused:

Shade
07-09-2004, 11:47 AM
After looking at the trade proposal again, this would probably work better for both teams, to shore up some weaknesses:

L.A. Lakers trades: C Shaquille O'Neal (21.5 ppg, 11.5 rpg, 2.9 apg in 36.8 minutes)
L.A. Lakers receives: SF Tim Thomas (14.7 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.9 apg in 31.6 minutes)
C Kurt Thomas (11.1 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 1.9 apg in 31.9 minutes)
C Nazr Mohammed (7.4 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 0.5 apg in 20.1 minutes)
PG Moochie Norris (3.5 ppg, 1.0 rpg, 1.8 apg in 12.8 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +15.2 ppg, +8.5 rpg, and +3.2 apg.

New York trades: SF Tim Thomas (14.7 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.9 apg in 31.6 minutes)
C Kurt Thomas (11.1 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 1.9 apg in 31.9 minutes)
C Nazr Mohammed (7.4 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 0.5 apg in 20.1 minutes)
PG Moochie Norris (3.5 ppg, 1.0 rpg, 1.8 apg in 12.8 minutes)
New York receives: C Shaquille O'Neal (21.5 ppg, 11.5 rpg, 2.9 apg in 67 games)
Change in team outlook: -15.2 ppg, -8.5 rpg, and -3.2 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Due to L.A. Lakers and New York being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. L.A. Lakers and New York had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Knicks' new roster:

C - Shaq/Mutombo/Trybanski
PF - Sheed/Sweetney/Harrington
SF - Anderson/Ariza
SG - Houston/Hardaway
PG - Marbury/Williams

Lakers' new roster:

C - Thomas/Mohammad
PF - Thomas/Cook/Douthit
SF - Walton/George
SG - Bryant/Rush/Vujacic
PG - Payton/Norris

That's much more balanced. :cool:

Shade
07-09-2004, 11:56 AM
That still blows for the Lakers. Even with the situation they're in, Dallas, Indiana, and Miami would beat that offer in a heartbeat.

Just curiously, what do you think those three teams are willing to throw LA's way?

themachotaco
07-09-2004, 12:00 PM
L.A. Lakers trades: C Shaquille O'Neal (21.5 ppg, 11.5 rpg, 2.9 apg in 36.8 minutes)
L.A. Lakers receives: PF Brian Grant (8.7 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 0.9 apg in 30.3 minutes)
SF Lamar Odom (17.1 ppg, 9.7 rpg, 4.1 apg in 37.5 minutes)
SF Caron Butler (9.2 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.9 apg in 29.8 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +13.5 ppg, +9.9 rpg, and +4.0 apg.

Miami trades: PF Brian Grant (8.7 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 0.9 apg in 30.3 minutes)
SF Lamar Odom (17.1 ppg, 9.7 rpg, 4.1 apg in 37.5 minutes)
SF Caron Butler (9.2 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.9 apg in 29.8 minutes)
Miami receives: C Shaquille O'Neal (21.5 ppg, 11.5 rpg, 2.9 apg in 67 games)
Change in team outlook: -13.5 ppg, -9.9 rpg, and -4.0 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Miami's new roster:
C - O'Neal
PF - Allen
SF - FA?
SG - Jones
PG - Wade

Laker's new roster:
C - Grant
PF - Odom
SF - Butler
SG - Bryant
PG - Payton

That's even more balanced, at least for the Lakers.

Not that the Heat would offer that, but I think that's the best deal that the Lakers could see at this point, at least from the three teams involved in this 'derby.' Three guys who can automatically come in and start. And that don't need the ball, but can be good compliments. We won't give them 3 guys who can come in and start, and I doubt NY would either.

I bet at this point, if Miami is serious in going after Shaq, they have to be stuck on what they can offer to NOT have to give up all three of those guys. If they could keep just one of those three this trade suddenly looks pretty good from their standpoint. Wade/Shaq looks like a pretty good 1-2 punch at this point in the East, homecourt for sure.

Hicks
07-09-2004, 12:04 PM
If it really is down to us, Dallas, and Miami, I hope none of us give in to trading JO, Dirk, or Wayde, forcing LA to submit to a lesser offer. Probably ups our chances. :D

The Pacers with the "O'Neal Bros."? :o

Of course, if we do this we HAVE to sign somebody to fill up the whole left all over the place :laugh:

Actually, let's take a look.

Let's say we give them Artest, Harrington, Pollard, Croshere, and Fred Jones.

Tinsley/Wright (AJ?)
(S.Jackson?)/Miller
Bender (ahhh!)/J.Jones
J.O'Neal/Foster
S.O'Neal/Foster

You know, as terrifying as JB as our starting 3 may be, if we have both O'Neals in our front court, and add Jax to our backcourt, it ain't gonna matter. :laugh:

blanket
07-09-2004, 12:08 PM
LA has also said they'd prefer to trade Shaq to the EC so they will only have to face him twice a year. The only EC teams Shaq has said he would resign with next year are Orlando and Miami.

So I imagine LA would have to think Dallas' offer was MUCH better than an EC team's before they'd trade him inter-conference.

There there's the Pacers. LA might feel we have the best offer among EC teams, but if Shaq won't guarantee that he'll resign here is it worth it for us to make that trade?

I guess it just depends on who we'd be giving up. $25M worth of players is a lot of depth to give up, but it would make us major players in FA next year (for what it's worth).

themachotaco
07-09-2004, 12:10 PM
Just curiously, what do you think those three teams are willing to throw LA's way?

That was my Miami offer, I don't know what Dallas can offer of value right now. Finley and Stackhouse are two that Cuban would love to include, but LA couldn't want both of them... maybe whichever one they might think they could put at the 3 (or slide Kobe there?). The deal would have to include Walker, and I'm sure LA is thrilled with that inclusion.:rolleyes:

Let us predict that the offer was Walker and Stackhouse (younger with 1 less year on contract than MF) -- along with that Dallas would either have to include Christian Laettner, Tariq Abdul-Wahad or Danny Fortson to get the salaries close to matching.

Ah, here's a new catch -- Stackhouse can't be traded again until Aug 24, and you bet that if LA trades Shaq it will be before then. Maybe even before July 14th to prove to Kobe he can re-sign there.

So it's Walker and Finley? You can't add another big contract to that without taking another back from LA (maybe Payton, solving Dallas' want for a veteran PG, hehe). Walker, Finley and Howard matches up with Shaq. I think that's the best offer that Dallas can make (w/o Dirk of course).

So, best case trades that LA could get w/o getting one of the 'untouchables':

Dal: Walker, Finley Howard

Mia: Grant, Odom, Butler

blanket
07-09-2004, 02:00 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1836585

"ESPN's Stephen A. Smith reports that any deal involving O'Neal could also involve a third team since the Pacers or Mavericks have been involved in these discussions, but that nothing is imminent."

hmmm... how might we be involved as a third team in a trade between Miami and LA?

waxman
07-09-2004, 06:17 PM
Rather not win a championship.... than win one with rent-a-shaq.

beast23
07-09-2004, 06:25 PM
The bad thing about trading for Shaq is that his physical conditioning has deteriorated each of the last 2-3 years. He is probably 40-50 pounds heavier than he was 3 years ago.

And, most importantly, he has gone on record as saying he will not play "much longer", whatever that means.

A team could very well trade for him, after LA sweetening the deal by securing a 2-3 year extension, and then still find itself screwed if Shaq would decide to retire after a year.

I'd love to get rid of contracts like Croshere's, Pollard's and Bender's, and I'd be willing to accommodate Al in his quest to start, but we could find ourselves short-handed in a year and no Shaq to show for it.

Seems a bit risky to me.

PacerMan
07-09-2004, 08:32 PM
L.A. Lakers trades: C Shaquille O'Neal (21.5 ppg, 11.5 rpg, 2.9 apg in 36.8 minutes)
L.A. Lakers receives: PF Mike Sweetney (4.3 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 0.3 apg in 11.8 minutes)
C Dikembe Mutombo (5.6 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 0.4 apg in 23.0 minutes)
C Kurt Thomas (11.1 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 1.9 apg in 31.9 minutes)
SG Anfernee Hardaway (9.2 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 2.3 apg in 27.6 minutes)

Change in team outlook: +8.7 ppg, +11.0 rpg, and +2.0 apg.

New York trades: PF Mike Sweetney (4.3 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 0.3 apg in 11.8 minutes)
C Dikembe Mutombo (5.6 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 0.4 apg in 23.0 minutes)
C Kurt Thomas (11.1 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 1.9 apg in 31.9 minutes)
SG Anfernee Hardaway (9.2 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 2.3 apg in 27.6 minutes)
New York receives: C Shaquille O'Neal (21.5 ppg, 11.5 rpg, 2.9 apg in 67 games)
Change in team outlook: -8.7 ppg, -11.0 rpg, and -2.0 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Due to L.A. Lakers and New York being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. L.A. Lakers and New York had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.[/b]

There are tons of trades that could be worked out between these two teams. NY has a lot of high salary contracts.

Knicks' new roster:

C - Shaq/Mohammad/Trybanski
PF - Sheed/Thomas/Harrington
SF - Anderson/Ariza
SG - Houston
PG - Marbury/Noris/Williams

They would need to beef up the 2-spot, but damn. :eek:

Lakers' new roster:

C - Thomas/Mutombo
PF - Sweetney/Cook/Douthit
SF - Walton/George
SG - Bryant/Hardaway/Rush/Vujacic
PG - Payton

The Lakers only currently have 9 players under contract, and Fox is likely to retire, so they will need to fill in at the 4 and 1.




ONLY O'Neal that bunch of stiffs gets you is Ryan.

PacerMan
07-09-2004, 08:34 PM
That still blows for the Lakers. Even with the situation they're in, Dallas, Indiana, and Miami would beat that offer in a heartbeat.

Just curiously, what do you think those three teams are willing to throw LA's way?

Anyone but Dirk, JO, and Wade respectively. And I think the team most likely to crack and offer their "untouchable" player is Dallas, with Miami and Indiana simply being unwilling to part with their core palyers in the end, although Miami may not be as adamant.

A Lamar Odom/Caron Bulter/Brian Grant/Malik Allen deals trumps any deal that doesn't involve Dirk from Dallas, especially since Miami seems to be Shaq's first choice now.



Miami would have to be brain dead to give up that much for a 32 y/o fat center that's never wanted to condition or work hard. Insane.
What would they have leftt to be competetive with? What would be gained???????

PacerMan
07-09-2004, 08:38 PM
Trade 3 talented, young guys, any of whom could be all stars, to rent Shaq for a year?
NO THANKS :pepper:

ABADays
07-09-2004, 11:50 PM
Rather not win a championship.... than win one with rent-a-shaq.

My sentiments exactly.

bapspacers4life
07-10-2004, 12:02 AM
No Shaq :pepper::dance::D