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View Full Version : In hindsight...



Shade
07-08-2004, 11:05 PM
Seeing what kind of insane $ these FAs are pulling in this year, was Brad Miller worth the contract he got?

(You know it was coming sooner or later... :devil:)

Hicks
07-08-2004, 11:10 PM
Yes.

Kegboy
07-08-2004, 11:18 PM
Wow, I'm surprised Peck didn't beat you to it.

Today the Pacers announced that 56% of their tickets were getting more expensive. If we'd re-signed Brad, it'd probably be closer to 96%. :(

As for Brad himself, I don't know. Is he as good as or better than some of these yahoos getting big contracts? Sure. But, is he 2.5 times better than a Jeff Foster or Brian Skinner? I don't think so.
---
I like shooting guards that can shoot.
:duel:

Young
07-08-2004, 11:22 PM
Yeah Brad was worth the money but I think we are better off with Jeff Foster.

Brad sucks in the second half of seasons if you ask me.

And Foster is a better defender too. He is the glue to the team.

Brad was nice but I think Foster helps us more.

MSA2CF
07-08-2004, 11:35 PM
After we win the championship, I'll let you know my answer, Shade.

bulletproof
07-08-2004, 11:46 PM
Brad sucks in the second half of seasons if you ask me.

Ding! Ding! Ding! Donnie hire this man, you two have melded minds.

SkipperZ
07-09-2004, 12:00 AM
Yeah Brad was worth the money but I think we are better off with Jeff Foster.

Brad sucks in the second half of seasons if you ask me.

And Foster is a better defender too. He is the glue to the team.

Brad was nice but I think Foster helps us more.


this is exactly why brad wasnt werth the money

Suaveness
07-09-2004, 12:02 AM
Brad sucks in the second half of seasons if you ask me.

Ding! Ding! Ding! Donnie hire this man, you two have melded minds.




Yep.

Unclebuck
07-09-2004, 12:18 AM
I think Boozer is a better player than Brad. Oh wait that was not the question.

I don't really miss Brad. Oh wait that was the not question either.

Brad is a lot better than many of the players getting huge contracts this summer, but that does not mean that these teams won't regret it in a few years.

I guess I still haven't answered the question.

I would rather the Pacers spend the money on other players.

Still have not answered the question.

OK Brad is still not worth the contract he got.

Anthem
07-09-2004, 12:25 AM
I agree with UncleBuck on every question except the last on. Brad was worth the money to SOMEBODY, just not to US.

Peck
07-09-2004, 12:58 AM
I'm just going to say that I disagree with all of you.

I have not read/heard or seen on tv one single pundit from outside the state of Indiana that thought for one min. that this was a good idea for Indiana.

I've seen very few people from outside of this forum or the other forum that did not think Brad Miller was NOT worth his money.

But I know this is a waste of my breath to even try to argue with any of you on this.

Like I said, I just disagree & we'll leave it at that.

Jose Slaughter
07-09-2004, 01:09 AM
I'm just going to say that I disagree with all of you.

I have not read/heard or seen on tv one single pundit from outside the state of Indiana that thought for one min. that this was a good idea for Indiana.

I've seen very few people from outside of this forum or the other forum that did not think Brad Miller was NOT worth his money.

But I know this is a waste of my breath to even try to argue with any of you on this.

Like I said, I just disagree & we'll leave it at that.


Ditto!

Bball
07-09-2004, 03:36 AM
FWIW... Brad Miller is better than Rik Smits ever thought about being....

JMHO....


Bball

Grant
07-09-2004, 10:12 AM
I try to toe the company line as much as the next guy, but the "trade" looks worse everyday.

The popular consesus last year was that the Pacers chose to re-sign Harrington and Reggie at the expense of Brad Miller. Now we are trying to unload Harrington for an "interior presence", a "big guy that will play physically", a center that "can step outside and hit the 15 footer".

I think there may be more to it than the money.

1) Maybe there was problem with his work ethic because he seems to fade down the stretch.
2) Maybe he didn't fit into the scheme just right
3) Maybe the brass thought that he would be a financial albatross when he is 32 and making $15 mil (or whatever it is).
4) Maybe the management thought that Pollard was an adequate replacement at half the cost (makes you wonder why the Kings would pay so much more for him if that were the case)

Unlike Peck, I'm a big fan of Walsh, and think that he makes the right decision 90% of the time (and for a GM that's good). But I agree with Peck, its natural to spin it that we did the right thing (and maybe we did) but I just don't see it.

bulletproof
07-09-2004, 10:28 AM
I think there may be more to it than the money.

1) Maybe there was problem with his work ethic because he seems to fade down the stretch.
2) Maybe he didn't fit into the scheme just right
3) Maybe the brass thought that he would be a financial albatross when he is 32 and making $15 mil (or whatever it is).
4) Maybe the management thought that Pollard was an adequate replacement at half the cost (makes you wonder why the Kings would pay so much more for him if that were the case)

1.) Yep.
2.) Um, not really.
3.) Yep.
4.) Yep.

Bball
07-09-2004, 11:27 AM
Factor in Walsh wondering about his work ethic, loyalty to Reggie, deciding to hang onto Bender with an (undeserved) extension, and IMO the overpayment of Croshere into all of this.

I don't think it was so much the money that the Pacers now have to pay to Croshere as much as I think Walsh got burned on those negotiations and he wasn't going to go through that again.

I also think they (Walsh... Bird... somebody) vastly overrated Pollard.

...Pure speculation....

-Bball

Bball
07-09-2004, 12:22 PM
Watching Brad Miller injured for the Kings or injured for the Pacers is the same thing. It's just not as depressing when he's not injured for us in the playoffs anymore.


For the record, how many games did BMiller miss last season and does anyone have a comparison of his stats from the 1st half to 2nd half of the season?

-Bball


EDIT: Now that I think about it his role changed at some point in there when Weber came back...
More thoughts added

blanket
07-09-2004, 12:28 PM
Year one of the contract = worth the $

The last few years of his contract = probably not worth the $

Unclebuck
07-09-2004, 12:33 PM
Thye only ground I will give on this debate is the Pacers were wrong about Pollard.

Bball
07-09-2004, 12:37 PM
Thye only ground I will give on this debate is the Pacers were wrong about Pollard.

I'm not 100% convinced that BMiller would've been back at any cost regardless of their views on Pollard.

I think there was 'something' (and the injury argument seems as good as any) that scared them off. Then again, it hasn't scared them off Bender.

-Bball

Ragnar
07-09-2004, 03:43 PM
We are of course ignoring that he would have signed with the Pacers for less than that had they simply made him an offer. So while he is worth the money we could have kept him for less and he would be a bargain.

Unclebuck
07-09-2004, 03:46 PM
We are of course ignoring that he would have signed with the Pacers for less than that had they simply made him an offer. So while he is worth the money we could have kept him for less and he would be a bargain.

Cavs thought that same thing a few days ago

Unclebuck
07-09-2004, 03:48 PM
Thye only ground I will give on this debate is the Pacers were wrong about Pollard.

I'm not 100% convinced that BMiller would've been back at any cost regardless of their views on Pollard.

I think there was 'something' (and the injury argument seems as good as any) that scared them off. Then again, it hasn't scared them off Bender.

-Bball



Pollard had nothing to do with the pacers not signing Brad. Pacers reached out to Pollard to try and salvage the situation.

Just think how much fun the Cavs fans will have talking about Boozer for years and years just like we have fun talking about brad, but Boozer is much worse

clownskull
07-09-2004, 05:49 PM
i would disagree about the effectiveness with brad against detroit versus foster. for one thing the biggest reason we stopped starting foster wasn't so much in that foster wasn't helping- it was because reggie was getting torched in the series and we had to find a way (any way possible ) to get more buckets. rip outscored reggie by a total of 142 to 56. that's positively huge.
also, i do suspect brads work ethic a good deal. i think donnie did too. his body is broken down by the 2nd half of the season and i seriously doubt he would have been so effective hobbling around against ben or rasheed. he was (brad) totaly ineffective last year against boston. if brad gets injured in the 2nd half of the season yet again- the pacer will have proven they made a good desicion on letting him go elsewhere.

Kegboy
07-09-2004, 07:03 PM
Yeah Brad was worth the money but I think we are better off with Jeff Foster.

Brad sucks in the second half of seasons if you ask me.

And Foster is a better defender too. He is the glue to the team.

Brad was nice but I think Foster helps us more.


We beat Detroit with Brad hitting the open 15'er all night long. THey come out on him and Jermaine kills them in the post.
I like Jeff a lot, but c'mon. ;)

Brad wouldn't have been able to guard Sheed, however.
:duel:

Arcadian
07-09-2004, 07:21 PM
With a health JO and Tins we beat Detriot.

Even bigger guarding Sheed is that Brad couldn't guard Rip who is beat us.

PacerMan
07-09-2004, 08:29 PM
Brad wouldn't have been able to guard Sheed, however.
:duel:[/quote]

He wouldn't have. Jermaine would. Miller would guard the pistons center, Ben.

PacerMan
07-09-2004, 08:30 PM
With a health JO and Tins we beat Detriot.

Even bigger guarding Sheed is that Brad couldn't guard Rip who is beat us.



Um, we get 15 points from the center position and we win going away.

MagicRat
07-09-2004, 11:07 PM
How did the Kings not win the whole thing after adding a dominating center to all of their other all-stars?......:confused:


:sarcasm:

Unclebuck
07-09-2004, 11:51 PM
Yeah Brad was worth the money but I think we are better off with Jeff Foster.

Brad sucks in the second half of seasons if you ask me.

And Foster is a better defender too. He is the glue to the team.

Brad was nice but I think Foster helps us more.


We beat Detroit with Brad hitting the open 15'er all night long. THey come out on him and Jermaine kills them in the post.
I like Jeff a lot, but c'mon. ;)




Yes but then either Brad would have to guard Sheed, which would scare me to death or the Pacers would have had to put J.O on Sheed, which would have caused other problems.

Arcadian
07-10-2004, 02:41 AM
With a health JO and Tins we beat Detriot.

Even bigger guarding Sheed is that Brad couldn't guard Rip who is beat us.



Um, we get 15 points from the center position and we win going away.



You could say if we got 15 from the SG we would win. By the way 15 per game is more than any Pacer(s) but JO averaged. 15 in that series is a lot.

PacerMan
07-10-2004, 10:15 AM
With a health JO and Tins we beat Detriot.

Even bigger guarding Sheed is that Brad couldn't guard Rip who is beat us.



Um, we get 15 points from the center position and we win going away.



You could say if we got 15 from the SG we would win. By the way 15 per game is more than any Pacer(s) but JO averaged. 15 in that series is a lot.




Geez you guys have short memories. Their STRATEGY was to pack the paint and make us beat them with outside shooting. We couldn't.
The free throw line jumper was open ALL SERIES LONG, we just didn't have anyone that could make it, save the game with Austin, and that was more 3's.
Brads as good as anyone in the league at that shot.
We would have won.
But then we would have won had Jermaine and Tins been healthy too.

PacerMan
07-10-2004, 10:16 AM
How did the Kings not win the whole thing after adding a dominating center to all of their other all-stars?......:confused:


:sarcasm:



Why don't you quote the post where someone said Brad was a dominating center??????? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes:
He WAS the missing piece and it cost us an NBA championship.
I love Donnie, but he screwed that one up royally.

sixthman
07-10-2004, 10:35 AM
Yeah Brad was worth the money but I think we are better off with Jeff Foster.

Brad sucks in the second half of seasons if you ask me.

And Foster is a better defender too. He is the glue to the team.

Brad was nice but I think Foster helps us more.

Brad Miller was let go because of luxury tax problems.

Not because Jeff Foster helps us more.

Brad Miller is a much better player right now than Jeff and probably always will be, I'd argue.

PacerMan
07-10-2004, 03:00 PM
Yeah Brad was worth the money but I think we are better off with Jeff Foster.

Brad sucks in the second half of seasons if you ask me.

And Foster is a better defender too. He is the glue to the team.

Brad was nice but I think Foster helps us more.


We beat Detroit with Brad hitting the open 15'er all night long. THey come out on him and Jermaine kills them in the post.
I like Jeff a lot, but c'mon. ;)




Yes but then either Brad would have to guard Sheed, which would scare me to death or the Pacers would have had to put J.O on Sheed, which would have caused other problems.




What other problems would that cause?

Kegboy
07-10-2004, 03:07 PM
Yeah Brad was worth the money but I think we are better off with Jeff Foster.

Brad sucks in the second half of seasons if you ask me.

And Foster is a better defender too. He is the glue to the team.

Brad was nice but I think Foster helps us more.


We beat Detroit with Brad hitting the open 15'er all night long. THey come out on him and Jermaine kills them in the post.
I like Jeff a lot, but c'mon. ;)




Yes but then either Brad would have to guard Sheed, which would scare me to death or the Pacers would have had to put J.O on Sheed, which would have caused other problems.




What other problems would that cause?

Possible foul problems for Jermaine, not to mention nullifying JO as a weak-side defender. If Sheed pulled him out to the 3-point line, Billups would have an open lane to the basket every trip down. :(