PDA

View Full Version : Wells Blog and McMuscles



Speed
06-19-2009, 05:40 AM
Granger's back in the gym (http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsider/archives/2009/06/grangers_back_i.html)


Posted by Mike Wells

http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsider/

THE `BURBS - To no surprise, Danny Granger spent quite a bit of time in the gym this week.

The Pacers All-Star wasn't in the gym working on isolation moves or defensive drills, two areas of his game he wants to improve on, though.
He was going through instructional drills with about 50 kids at Park Tudor High School.

This is the first year Granger has held a basketball camp in Indianapolis. He normally holds his camps in New Mexico, which he will continue to do.
"I signed a long-term extension with the Pacers so I figured it was time to have one here," Granger said during a recent lunch break at Park Tudor. "I've always had roots in New Mexico, and I still will, but now that I will be here, I want to start it here."

Granger recruited some of his former college teammates to help out at the camp. A couple of Granger's current teammates - Brandon Rush and Roy Hibbert - were expected to make an appearance at the camp.
"What we do with the kids is teach them different aspects of the game, but we also want them to remember it's about team work, working hard and having fun.

"Basketball is a game that is played to have fun. I think a lot of times it's so serious because of AAU and college. Some kids don't even have fun playing anymore."

Granger never got caught up in all the AAU hype while growing up in the New Orleans area. He didn't play AAU basketball until the summer before his senior season, which is likely why he wasn't heavily recruited coming out of Grace King High School.
*****************

Speaking of his basketball camp in New Mexico, Granger said they had to move the date back to early August so that he can take part in the USA Basketball training camp, which could lead to him playing in next year's World Championships and the 2012 Olympics, in late July in Las Vegas.
"I think in four years a lot of the players won't be playing anymore or on their way out (the NBA)," Granger said. "It would be a great honor to play in the Olympics if I make it."
*****************

I've been hearing rumors about how Josh McRoberts has been living in the weight room this offseason.

I saw it with my own eyes when I ran into him at Conseco Fieldhouse earlier this week.

McRoberts said he's put on 20 pounds of muscle since the end of the season.

The Pacers plan to do their best to re-sign McRoberts, who appeared in 33 games last season.

A Pacers official told me they envision McRoberts being like Denver's Birdman. They like McRoberts' athleticism, energy and rebounding ability off the bench.

******************

North Carolina's Tyler Hansbrough and Duke's Gerald Henderson highlight the final day of workouts for draft prospects at the fieldhouse on Friday.
Here are the other players taking part:

--Cedric Jackson (Cleveland St.)
--Kevin Rogers (Baylor)
--Anthony Smith (Liberty)
--Scott VanderMeer (Illinois-Chicago)

I asked Granger what area the Pacers need to address most in the offseason.

"Everyone knows we need an inside presence, that's an area of concern," he said. "I don't think point guard is a real problem. We have three already. It depends on how free agency goes."

Brad8888
06-19-2009, 08:48 AM
With 20 pounds of extra muscle, sounds like we might just have a 4 after all. Woo hoo!

Speed
06-19-2009, 08:54 AM
With 20 pounds of extra muscle, sounds like we might just have a 4 after all. Woo hoo!

Exactly, I wonder if it's upper body muscle weight and if it will impact his athleticism. I'd say at his age, if he can put on 20 lbs of muscle that he'd have a good chance of continuing to get even stronger as he gets older. I think that could really bode well for him.

Thats a ton of muscle mass to add in a short time, but the way he looked I really doubt he ever lifted seriously before, so it's very possible. I really hope he plays summer league ball.

ESutt7
06-19-2009, 08:57 AM
Exactly, I wonder if it's upper body muscle weight and if it will impact his athleticism. I'd say at his age, if he can put on 20 lbs of muscle that he'd have a good chance of continuing to get even stronger as he gets older. I think that could really bode well for him.

Thats a ton of muscle mass to add in a short time, but the way he looked I really doubt he ever lifted seriously before, so it's very possible. I really hope he plays summer league ball.

He lifted a good amount in high school, but for whatever reason his body just never showed it. He couldn't add the weight that well and was never "cut" by any means. So maybe his body is just developing and filling out a bit late. But good for him, that could be huge. I can definitely see him in that Andersen role, a more athletic Foster. Very happy for him, and I'm glad the Pacers are going to keep him around.

Brad8888
06-19-2009, 09:07 AM
Hopefully Roy is hitting the weight room, too. He could easily stand an extra 20, also, regardless of it making him slower. He already had problems defensively due to late rotations and poor defensive footwork, so learning to adjust a little more quickly would not hurt.

cdash
06-19-2009, 09:09 AM
Hopefully Roy is hitting the weight room, too. He could easily stand an extra 20, also, regardless of it making him slower. He already had problems defensively due to late rotations and poor defensive footwork, so learning to adjust a little more quickly would not hurt.

Ehhh, I'm not sure I want Roy adding extra weight to his frame. Guys that big don't want to carry too much weight, it is murder on their knees. Plus like you mentioned, he's slow as it is. He needs to be more fleet on his feet.

Anthem
06-19-2009, 09:23 AM
Granger needs to call some guys in, so who does he call? Rush and Hibbert. Beautiful.

Speed
06-19-2009, 09:30 AM
Another interesting thing was I remember Danny saying he's been calling his PG (JJ) in the offseason, but now it seems he realizes that may end up not being the case. Not major, but I I'm glad to hear Danny understands the nature of it and doesn't start thinking he can make personnell decisions cuz he's the face of the team.

count55
06-19-2009, 09:34 AM
Another interesting thing was I remember Danny saying he's been calling his PG (JJ) in the offseason, but now it seems he realizes that may end up not being the case. Not major, but I I'm glad to hear Danny understands the nature of it and doesn't start thinking he can make personnell decisions cuz he's the face of the team.

Where are you getting this?

Jonathan
06-19-2009, 09:43 AM
I am a little worried with Mc Roberts putting on lbs due to fact he should be developing on his shooting. If this does not hurt his range I am a big fan of the extra weight. I just hope he can pass a steroids test he did go to Carmel Highschool afterall.

Speed
06-19-2009, 10:31 AM
Where are you getting this?

I'll have to find it, maybe it was in an interview when he won the MIP that he had been in regular contact with his Point Guard and he was referring to Jack.

cdash
06-19-2009, 10:33 AM
I'll have to find it, maybe it was in an interview when he won the MIP that he had been in regular contact with his Point Guard and he was referring to Jack.

I think he was talking about the part of it not being the case anymore.

pianoman
06-19-2009, 10:43 AM
I am a little worried with Mc Roberts putting on lbs due to fact he should be developing on his shooting. If this does not hurt his range I am a big fan of the extra weight. I just hope he can pass a steroids test he did go to Carmel Highschool afterall.

what range?
:)

count55
06-19-2009, 10:46 AM
I'll have to find it, maybe it was in an interview when he won the MIP that he had been in regular contact with his Point Guard and he was referring to Jack.


I think he was talking about the part of it not being the case anymore.

Yes, as cdash says.

danman
06-19-2009, 11:03 AM
Ehhh, I'm not sure I want Roy adding extra weight to his frame. Guys that big don't want to carry too much weight, it is murder on their knees. Plus like you mentioned, he's slow as it is. He needs to be more fleet on his feet.

Roy doesn't need to get huge, but come on. He had a horrible time getting shoved around in the post after he got an entry pass. A forearm in the back bent him over. It was too easy to get him off balance.

His legs and arms don't have much definition, either. He needs a lot of core work with some lifting. He could remain wirey and still put on 15 pounds of muscle.

Hicks
06-19-2009, 11:10 AM
He doesn't need to put on pounds. He just needs to work on his strength. As I understand it, you do that without adding (much?) weight.

I'm not even sure definition is a big part of it, either. I think back to Olympic weight lifters who have huge, fat-looking bodies, but damn it if they aren't strong as hell.

I also think of the term "wiry strength."

Country Boy
06-19-2009, 11:37 AM
He doesn't need to put on pounds. He just needs to work on his strength. As I understand it, you do that without adding (much?) weight.

I'm not even sure definition is a big part of it, either. I think back to Olympic weight lifters who have huge, fat-looking bodies, but damn it if they aren't strong as hell.

I also think of the term "wiry strength."

It's true that you can add strength without putting on too many pounds, mainly by increasing reps and reduceing amount lifted with each rep. "Wiry strength" is something your born with and not acquired through weight training. There is no substitute for bulk when it comes to tusseling down low.

cdash
06-19-2009, 11:40 AM
See, I'm not sure Roy needs to bulk up though. I think footwork and proper positioning in the post would go a long way towards alleviating his being pushed around. I'd love to see him hit the weights, but I'd be mildly concerned if he strolled into camp with 15-20 extra pounds. Guys his size really have to be careful how much weight they put on their knees/feet.

imawhat
06-19-2009, 11:50 AM
He doesn't need to put on pounds. He just needs to work on his strength. As I understand it, you do that without adding (much?) weight.

I'm not even sure definition is a big part of it, either. I think back to Olympic weight lifters who have huge, fat-looking bodies, but damn it if they aren't strong as hell.

I also think of the term "wiry strength."

This is true.

I'm just nervous because I associate added muscle/weight gain with what happened to Jermaine.

Major Cold
06-19-2009, 11:54 AM
Physically he looks to be making the change, but skill wise he needs a little bit more. I have confidence that it can happen.

mcampbellarch
06-19-2009, 11:57 AM
May be a Gracie brazillian jujitsu lesson for foot speed, positioning, and using your hips and the weight you have would help. It is a lot easier to resist being pushed around when your foundation is solid.

Just the first thing that came to mind, and it has been a while so I thought I would share.

Hicks
06-19-2009, 11:59 AM
I so hope this muscle translates well to the court next fall for Josh. I kept saying last season to myself or whomever I was sitting with at the games that he just looked like he was getting pushed around and that if he came back noticeably stronger, he could be something because he's so scrappy, so athletic, such a jumper.

A lot of times he'd swoop in for what would/should be a great rebound or dunk, only to just lose the board or just miss the dunk because he got bumped. He he can still "swoop" like that with the added bulk/strength, he could turn a corner.

McKeyFan
06-19-2009, 12:00 PM
Granger needs to call some guys in, so who does he call? Rush and Hibbert. Beautiful.

My same thought.

But why? Because they are more available as rooks/sophs or because they have the same attitude and vision as Granger? Be interesting to know.

imawhat
06-19-2009, 12:07 PM
I kept saying last season to myself or whomever I was sitting with at the games that he just looked like he was getting pushed around and that if he came back noticeably stronger, he could be something because he's so scrappy, so athletic, such a jumper.

A lot of times he'd swoop in for what would/should be a great rebound or dunk, only to just lose the board or just miss the dunk because he got bumped. He he can still "swoop" like that with the added bulk/strength, he could turn a corner.

This is also true. Next to being out of position on the floor (and possibly shooting), I thought Josh's biggest weakness was his strength.

My fear is that 20 lbs. will have a significant impact on his #1 attribute. I know it's more muscle too, but has anyone tried jumping with a 20 lb. weightbelt?

Speed
06-19-2009, 12:10 PM
Yes, as cdash says.

Ya, it's not in that piece. Man, I am all over the place trying to soak up info, let me exhale.

Okay, here is what I think I saw. On channel 6 or 8 last night (I think 6) they had an interview with DG at Danny's Basketball camp at Park Tudor. I think Danny said something along the lines of that you never know what might happen in regards to Jarret Jack and something that made me think he was prepared to get his mind around it, if they he can't be resigned. How is that for a great reference. :D

I'm sorry, did anyone see that interview at Danny's camp.

I absolutely love the NBA draft, but I tend to let it all kinda run together, obviously.

I swear I didn't intentionally try to not make sense!!!

pacergod2
06-19-2009, 12:14 PM
Here's my opinion on Hibbert and McRoberts. McRoberts need to add strength in his legs and upper body. He has the frame to carry the extra weight and he needs the extra muscle mass up top to bang with NBA PF's. He has good hops but he needs to coordinate his upper body development with his lower body development to alleviate future knee problems, which is where JO really screwed up.

Hibbert on the other hand needs to really just strengthen his legs. He naturally has more weight due to his larger body mass, because of his height. He has to strenghten his legs to strengthen his knees for a long year of playing more minutes in the NBA. This will make him quicker and improve his leaping ability as well.

cdash
06-19-2009, 12:16 PM
This is also true. Next to being out of position on the floor (and possibly shooting), I thought Josh's biggest weakness was his strength.

My fear is that 20 lbs. will have a significant impact on his #1 attribute. I know it's more muscle too, but has anyone tried jumping with a 20 lb. weightbelt?

Well, I'm obviously not in the same boat as McRoberts, but last year I put on about 15-20 pounds of muscle, and I didn't lose anything on my vertical. As long as he isn't solely focusing on his upper body, I think he should be okay.

Speed
06-19-2009, 12:17 PM
This is true.

I'm just nervous because I associate added muscle/weight gain with what happened to Jermaine.

and Rik.

Noodle
06-19-2009, 12:18 PM
I recently added 20 lbs of muscle to my own frame. Full body workouts through weekly rotations. I feel more explosive and athletic than I ever have. I'm 27 yrs old and 6'3" and could never dunk, now I can grab the rim one-handed jumping flat footed. I played a pickup game with a friend who constantly out classes me in terms of athleticism. NowIU can blow by him and push him around at will. I know everyone reacts differently to muscle gain, but in my experience it's a good thing if not over done. I think Josh can afford to add strength, he no longer will be a softy. Hopefully, Josh's body reacts like mine did, and I think his will. I'm not worried about him losing explosiveness.

Smoothdave1
06-19-2009, 12:27 PM
McRoberts was listed at 6'10, 240lbs last season. Therefore, if he has put on 20lbs of muscle, that puts him at around the 260 area, which is about the same size as a guy like Al Jefferson or Kevin Love. I would expect him to drop a little weight once the summer league season starts as it's hard to sustain the same weight when you're running up and down the court. My guess is that he is probably working on conditioning right now to get stronger for next season and there's a difference as far as being able to run on a treadmill versus being in basketball shape.

I would expect Josh to play around the 250-255lb range this year, which I think is a good weight for him. You have to remember that he's just 22 and his body is still filling out. I don't think he needs to get any heavier than that.

I think Josh has a lot of motivation right now as he wants to show and prove that he is an NBA player. He was a legit lottery pick coming out of High School and had a bad experience in Portland and is looking to show those doubters wrong. I like his work ethic and dedication and think he could become a Chris Andersen type of player and carve his own niche on the Pacers.

As far as Jack, the interview in question was when Danny was on Dakich's show and he mentioned he had been in contact with the Pacers point guard, Jarrett Jack. I think the Pacers do want to resign Jack and I think a lot of this depends on what can be done with Ford. I think Larry probably told Danny to just let this play out as to not damage any potential trade value TJ may have.

As far as Rush and Hibbert, both guys are in town working out and getting ready for the summer league, which is why Danny called them to help out.

OakMoses
06-19-2009, 12:37 PM
I just hope he can pass a steroids test he did go to Carmel Highschool afterall.

McRoberts's physique always looked a little youngish to me. It's entirely possible that he's just finally filling out and hitting the weights at the same time. I just hope he's working on his game just as much as he's lifting.

I don't know what you're implying with your Carmel High School comment, but I know some guys I played football with there in the 90's were using steroids.

Since86
06-19-2009, 12:39 PM
It's true that you can add strength without putting on too many pounds, mainly by increasing reps and reduceing amount lifted with each rep. "Wiry strength" is something your born with and not acquired through weight training. There is no substitute for bulk when it comes to tusseling down low.

Actually, it's the exact opposite. Your body uses different metabolic pathways to generate energy. Reducing weight and increasing reps will make your body go to aerobic pathways, which develops stamina.

Increasing weight, and dropping reps, is what power lifters do (Olympic lifters) They do no more than 5reps when working on power, and are above 80% of their 1rep max.

If you work with low weight/high reps, you're going to tone not add bulk.

Power lifting is 3-5reps, strength is 5-12reps, and endurance is 12-20reps

LoneGranger33
06-19-2009, 02:20 PM
I don't think he literally put on twenty pounds of muscle.

Country Boy
06-19-2009, 02:20 PM
Actually, it's the exact opposite. Your body uses different metabolic pathways to generate energy. Reducing weight and increasing reps will make your body go to aerobic pathways, which develops stamina.

Increasing weight, and dropping reps, is what power lifters do (Olympic lifters) They do no more than 5reps when working on power, and are above 80% of their 1rep max.

If you work with low weight/high reps, you're going to tone not add bulk.

Power lifting is 3-5reps, strength is 5-12reps, and endurance is 12-20reps

Then your basically agreeing with me, right?

Since86
06-19-2009, 02:26 PM
No.

You said he should drop weight and increase reps to add strength and not put on weight. You wouldn't build strength (you would but it would be minimal), you would increase endurance. If he doesn't want to gain weight, then he should do the opposite. Lower reps and increase resistance. It's not a strength builder, but a power builder. (Yes there is a difference) It would allow him to be more explosive. He would put on some pounds but not nearly as much as if he strength trained.

Gamble1
06-19-2009, 02:35 PM
This is also true. Next to being out of position on the floor (and possibly shooting), I thought Josh's biggest weakness was his strength.

My fear is that 20 lbs. will have a significant impact on his #1 attribute. I know it's more muscle too, but has anyone tried jumping with a 20 lb. weightbelt?
I don't think you have to worry that Josh losing his vertical with 20 lbs. The small amount of weight looks like a lot on a guy 5'10 but at 6'10 its nothing.

When McRoberts came into the league he weighed 240 lbs which seems like a good weight for a pf. The kicker though is that he had 13.7% body fat which was the highest percentage amoung pf in the 2007 draft.

My guess is that he lost a lot of body fat over the last 2 years and his weight as listed is no longer accurate. Meaning I think he weighs less than 260 lbs with the added muscle.

Country Boy
06-19-2009, 03:10 PM
No.

You said he should drop weight and increase reps to add strength and not put on weight. You wouldn't build strength (you would but it would be minimal), you would increase endurance. If he doesn't want to gain weight, then he should do the opposite. Lower reps and increase resistance. It's not a strength builder, but a power builder. (Yes there is a difference) It would allow him to be more explosive. He would put on some pounds but not nearly as much as if he strength trained.

NO, I said if one doesn't want to bulk up then they should lower the weight and add reps. Bulk equals gaining weight. Lifting heavier weights at low reps builds bulk, so you are wrong on that point.

Since86
06-19-2009, 03:17 PM
How many times have you written for Men's Health Magazine or Muscle Mag?

I think I'll take the word of my ex-professional bodybuilder prof, who was also Colorado Universities strength and conditioning coach while a full time prof at Ball State, who also has had his nutrition lecture adopted by Oregon and Texas, over your's.

;)

If you want to Google him, is name is David Pearson.

Oh yeah, he was also named National Educator of the Year in 2005 by The National Strength and Conditioning Association.

ChicagoJ
06-19-2009, 03:22 PM
David Pearson.

And they say race car drivers aren't athletes.

Country Boy
06-19-2009, 03:22 PM
How many times have you written for Men's Health Magazine or Muscle Mag?

I think I'll take the word of my ex-professional bodybuilder prof, who was also Colorado Universities strength and conditioning coach while a full time prof at Ball State, who also has had his nutrition lecture adopted by Oregon and Texas, over your's.

;)

If you want to Google him, is name is David Pearson.


Have you ever lifted weights? I would guess not from your name dropping response. LOng and lean muscles are not achieved by lifting heavy weights, they are achieved by higher reps and low weights. You don't get to look like the incredible Hulk by lifting light weights. Ever hear of slamming?

rexnom
06-19-2009, 03:33 PM
Aren't you guys (CountryBoy and Since86) basically saying the same thing? I seriously cannot find a difference in what you're saying. Why the fighting, name-dropping and name calling? Can't we all be friends?

Noodle
06-19-2009, 03:39 PM
:box: Country Boy and 86 are about to box it out. Sorry, 86 you might want to talk to Mr. Pearson again, for you are wrong. Just want to get back to friendly talks.

Low reps(3-8)=bulk/strength.

High reps(12-20)=tone/strength.

McRoberts certianly did not gain all that weight in muscle already, unless his is taking PED's. His weight gain came from higher calorie intake while eating larger meals fewer times a day to temporarily slow the metabolism. Now he wants to transform that weight into muscle.

FYI all large men should eat more times a day in small amounts to speed the metabolism to lose weight.

Country Boy
06-19-2009, 03:47 PM
Aren't you guys (CountryBoy and Since86) basically saying the same thing? I seriously cannot find a difference in what you're saying. Why the fighting, name-dropping and name calling? Can't we all be friends?

I am not fighting or name calling and I have no problem with 86, other than telling him he is wrong on the topic at hand.

Since86
06-19-2009, 03:54 PM
Have you ever lifted weights? I would guess not from your name dropping response. LOng and lean muscles are not achieved by lifting heavy weights, they are achieved by higher reps and low weights. You don't get to look like the incredible Hulk by lifting light weights. Ever hear of slamming?

Nope, never lifted in my life. :rolleyes:

Yes, I have heard of slamming. It's called slamming because of the high amount of weight slamming into the ground and the sound of the plates smacking each other. Not from a low amount of weight. Also known as slinging weight.


It's true that you can add strength without putting on too many pounds, mainly by increasing reps and reduceing amount lifted with each rep. "Wiry strength" is something your born with and not acquired through weight training. There is no substitute for bulk when it comes to tusseling down low.

This is what you originally said, and this is what I have been talking about.

You aren't going to gain any significant strength by dropping weight and increasing reps. Like I said, that uses a different metabolic pathway, one that develops muscular endurance, not strength.

(You will gain strength originally, but that's because it's your body becoming more efficient. It won't be a lot if your using a low %age of your 1rep max, with a high number of reps.)

If you want to add power (explosiveness in your movements), then you do the exact opposite. You increase weight and decrease the number of reps.

Gamble1
06-19-2009, 03:58 PM
I understand finally where the mix up is.

86 is saying that if he wants to have explosive power like jumping really high he needs to power lift. If he wants to add bulk he would strength train.

I have to agree with this. Had a freind who power lifted and he was only 160lbs. Benched 320 squated in the 500's and he had incredible jumping ability.

Trophy
06-19-2009, 03:58 PM
I hope we re-sign Josh.

Country Boy
06-19-2009, 04:22 PM
Nope, never lifted in my life. :rolleyes:

Yes, I have heard of slamming. It's called slamming because of the high amount of weight slamming into the ground and the sound of the plates smacking each other. Not from a low amount of weight. Also known as slinging weight.



This is what you originally said, and this is what I have been talking about.

You aren't going to gain any significant strength by dropping weight and increasing reps. Like I said, that uses a different metabolic pathway, one that develops muscular endurance, not strength.

(You will gain strength originally, but that's because it's your body becoming more efficient. It won't be a lot if your using a low %age of your 1rep max, with a high number of reps.)

If you want to add power (explosiveness in your movements), then you do the exact opposite. You increase weight and decrease the number of reps.

My first post was to Hicks and his post was in response to Josh Mcroberts putting on 20 lbs of muscle. I am saying he did not put this 20 lbs on by using the high rep low weight method. I don't see where my point is different than yours unless you are not understanding what I am saying. Let's use the example of someone who has never lifted weights, he would indeed gain strength from high reps and lower weights and not bulk up with quick weight gains. I thinks Hicks was saying that he would prefer the player getting stronger without the extra weight gain and my point was that a player can get stronger without bulking up.

Gamble1
06-19-2009, 04:30 PM
My first post was to Hicks and his post was in response to Josh Mcroberts putting on 20 lbs of muscle. I am saying he did not put this 20 lbs on by using the high rep low weight method. I don't see where my point is different than yours unless you are not understanding what I am saying. Let's use the example of someone who has never lifted weights, he would indeed gain strength from high reps and lower weights and not bulk up with quick weight gains. I thinks Hicks was saying that he would prefer the player getting stronger without the extra weight gain and my point was that a player can get stronger without bulking up.
NOt trying to get involvled in this but 86 is saying you gain significant explosive strength by power lifting not high rep low weight. If done right the person won't increase in weight hence the answer to Hicks concern.

Trophy
06-19-2009, 04:36 PM
I'm expecting Roy to gain 30 pounds of muscle and be able to dunk on anyone and not let Tyrus Thomas own him.

Country Boy
06-19-2009, 04:43 PM
NOt trying to get involvled in this but 86 is saying you gain significant explosive strength by power lifting not high rep low weight. If done right the person won't increase in weight hence the answer to Hicks concern.

Power lifting cannot be done without gaining bulk and extra weight. When I say high rep and lower weight I am not saying lifting 6 ounces one thousand times. My point was to Hicks that it is possible to get stronger without adding too many pounds. Let's put it this way, how many Mr. Universes do you see playing in the NBA? Heavy lifting shortens the muscle and that is bad for basketball players. Think long and lean and strong.

jmoney2584
06-19-2009, 04:47 PM
I think as Pacers fans we are all a little quick to cringe at the thought of an up and coming big man adding extra weight to his frame. In JO's defense, he did hyper extend his knee awfully bad more than once. That is tough for anyone to recover from, it just coincided with his weight gain. Not to mention he attempted to play on one leg forever, that didn't help matters either. JO is lucky to have a career at all...look at Shaun Livingston for example. I think JO and Bender are the exception, as most people aren't going to have this issue if they do things porportionally. JMO.

Since86
06-19-2009, 04:51 PM
My first post was to Hicks and his post was in response to Josh Mcroberts putting on 20 lbs of muscle. I am saying he did not put this 20 lbs on by using the high rep low weight method. I don't see where my point is different than yours unless you are not understanding what I am saying. Let's use the example of someone who has never lifted weights, he would indeed gain strength from high reps and lower weights and not bulk up with quick weight gains. I thinks Hicks was saying that he would prefer the player getting stronger without the extra weight gain and my point was that a player can get stronger without bulking up.

Wow, I guess I'm going to really have to get into the biomechanics of it to make any sense.

I don't have the time, but I will continue to say what I have been saying. You cannot add any significant amount of strength by high reps/low weight.

One, it doesn't involve progressive overload.
Two, strength is increased because the distance between actin and myosin becomes more optimal when muscle fibers enlarge. (the reason why when you take creatine you're strength goes up. creatine makes your muscles retain water, making the fibers larger, and creating a more optimal distance between actin and myosin. wihch is bad for you if you don't do it in cycles but that's a different discussion.)

Sorry to say, but if you want strength you get bigger. You can increase power and not get as big but not strength. Yes there is a difference.

CableKC
06-19-2009, 04:59 PM
"Everyone knows we need an inside presence, that's an area of concern," he said. "I don't think point guard is a real problem. We have three already. It depends on how free agency goes."
This echoes Granger's pick in that ESPN Article that I posted that had Players from Teams pick in some Mock Draft. With a top PG propect like Holiday and Hill ( yes, I know...it's doubtful that he'd drop to 13 ) on the board, he went with Hill. He pretty much said the same thing about needing a Big Man with Atheleticsm and size.

Country Boy
06-19-2009, 05:40 PM
Wow, I guess I'm going to really have to get into the biomechanics of it to make any sense.

I don't have the time, but I will continue to say what I have been saying. You cannot add any significant amount of strength by high reps/low weight.

One, it doesn't involve progressive overload.
Two, strength is increased because the distance between actin and myosin becomes more optimal when muscle fibers enlarge. (the reason why when you take creatine you're strength goes up. creatine makes your muscles retain water, making the fibers larger, and creating a more optimal distance between actin and myosin. wihch is bad for you if you don't do it in cycles but that's a different discussion.)

Sorry to say, but if you want strength you get bigger. You can increase power and not get as big but not strength. Yes there is a difference.

So power and strength don't belong in the same sentence? Talking about splitting hairs. Look, I understand what you are saying, however you have taken my op and twisted it into something that I am not saying. Again my point is that if you power lift it comes with a trade off, and that is added bulk, ie weight, getting back to Hicks post. I understand that you are well versed on the subject however you should go back and read the thread from the op and follow what Hicks said and my initial response to his post.

BTW, you failed to respond to my example of a player never having lifted weights and starts a lifting program of high reps and lower weigths. Are you saying that this type of player would not get stronger for having done so?

imawhat
06-19-2009, 06:21 PM
I don't think you have to worry that Josh losing his vertical with 20 lbs. The small amount of weight looks like a lot on a guy 5'10 but at 6'10 its nothing.

When McRoberts came into the league he weighed 240 lbs which seems like a good weight for a pf. The kicker though is that he had 13.7% body fat which was the highest percentage amoung pf in the 2007 draft.

My guess is that he lost a lot of body fat over the last 2 years and his weight as listed is no longer accurate. Meaning I think he weighs less than 260 lbs with the added muscle.

I hope what you and others are saying is the case.

I'm about 6'2" and I've gained about 30 solid lbs over the course of a few years, but I've lost about 12 inches on my vertical. And of course Jermaine, who also lost explosiveness.

McRoberts needed to gain weight/strength, and let's hope 20 is the magic number.