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View Full Version : Has Detroit Given Gordon An $11M Promise?



MillerTime
06-17-2009, 01:26 PM
Ben Gordon's agent is reportedly telling people that his client has a guarantee from the Pistons.

The agent claims that Detroit has promised Gordon $11 million annually, which makes sense considering that the guard rejected $10 million and $9 million from Chicago in the previous two years.

There have been rumors that the Pistons are looking to trade Richard Hamilton, which has only accelerated the speculation that they are targeting Gordon.
Bulls.com
http://blogs.bulls.com/chicago_bulls_blog/2009/06/bulls-look-at-guards-who-may-be-in-their-future.html

ESutt7
06-17-2009, 01:28 PM
Yay for getting overpaid!!! :happydanc:dance:

count55
06-17-2009, 01:34 PM
Tampering?

(Of course, that would just make them doubly-stupid.)

DrFife
06-17-2009, 01:38 PM
Gordon's value ($6.9m by my analysis) has eclipsed that of Hamilton, who will make $11.4m next season, but is in decline. I get the strategy of stealing from the enemy, and I can imagine his value increasing in a system more focussed around him, but ... ?

Oh great Kstat, reader of all thoughts in Dumars' head, what say you?

idioteque
06-17-2009, 01:52 PM
I know it would never happen and it doesn't even make a lot of sense with the way our team is currently constructed but I would love to get Rip Hamilton. My man crush on him rivals Peck-Dale Davis proportions.

duke dynamite
06-17-2009, 01:54 PM
heh.

Mourning
06-17-2009, 02:25 PM
Please, please do break the bank on Gordon, Detroit, do it, do it, DO IT!!! :happydanc:

Offcourse, they still have enough room to sign another player to a premiere contract, but still... I wouldn't mind Gordon there at that price ;).

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

DGPR
06-17-2009, 02:38 PM
If Detroit signs Gordon and Boozer this offseason then I'll be ecstatic. Their payroll in about 4-5 years is going to look fantastic.

ESutt7
06-17-2009, 02:45 PM
If Detroit signs Gordon and Boozer this offseason then I'll be ecstatic. Their payroll in about 4-5 years is going to look fantastic.

Right there with you. Joe Dumars, the genius..........

Hicks
06-17-2009, 04:29 PM
A good player, but that's pricey.

spreedom
06-17-2009, 04:41 PM
Gordon and Hamilton on the same team, making $11M+ per? Outstanding.

Anthem
06-17-2009, 05:32 PM
Has Detroit Given Gordon An $11M Promise?
I sure hope so.

count55
06-17-2009, 05:35 PM
Seriously, I didn't think they could talk to him until July 1st...not while he's under contract (technically) to the Bulls.

Hicks
06-17-2009, 05:38 PM
Gordon and Hamilton on the same team, making $11M+ per? Outstanding.


Either Hamilton or Prince is going to be traded if they sign Gordon, so they'll have someone else at a diff. position to pay that kind of money to.

Young
06-17-2009, 05:39 PM
If Gordon goes to the Pistons at that price its fine by me.

I think that is overpaying a little bit but Gordon is still a good player. He still is clutch. I would love to have him on this team just not at $11 million a year.

I don't get it though, Gordon and Rodney Stuckey in the backcourt? I guess Stuckey is pretty big he can guard 2s, I sure hope so if I am Detroit at least.

d_c
06-17-2009, 06:14 PM
Tampering?

(Of course, that would just make them doubly-stupid.)

There's no proof of tampering here. It's just Gordon's agent making claims. Tampering usually involves a team telling the media that they're interested in someone else's player.

Will Perdue's comment saying "Tim Duncan isn't married to San Antonio" several years back got him a warning from the league (if not a fine), IIRC.

rexnom
06-17-2009, 06:21 PM
"Ben Gordon's agent is reportedly telling people that his client has a guarantee from the Pistons."

Is he telling people this because it's true or because he wants 10+ million from the Bulls or another team?

d_c
06-17-2009, 06:25 PM
"Ben Gordon's agent is reportedly telling people that his client has a guarantee from the Pistons."

Is he telling people this because it's true or because he wants 10+ million from the Bulls or another team?

Probably both. He's an agent. He's trying to do everything to drum up interest in his client and get the biggest contract he can.

Naptown_Seth
06-17-2009, 08:41 PM
Seriously, I didn't think they could talk to him until July 1st...not while he's under contract (technically) to the Bulls.
Come on Detroit, pull a Joe Smith and lose draft picks too. We're cap locked AND miss our draft spot for 2 years, weeeeeee.


Of course no matter what it won't come to that, Stern wouldn't let it. But Detroit needs to put the zip it in effect ASAP on BG's camp.


Also, this is why I'm STRONGLY anti-cap space for the Pacers. The FA market is filled with overspending, year after year. It's not a good place to build a team. Trades and drafting are how to build a team.

Rip - trade
Billups - low-end FA signing
Prince - mid-round draft pick
Ben - trade
Sheed - highway robbery

While we are at it
Kobe - trade/mid first pick
Gasol - robbery
Odom - trade
Fisher - low-end FA signing

ESutt7
06-17-2009, 08:43 PM
Also, this is why I'm STRONGLY anti-cap space for the Pacers. The FA market is filled with overspending, year after year. It's not a good place to build a team. Trades and drafting are how to build a team.

Agreed.

rexnom
06-17-2009, 08:47 PM
Come on Detroit, pull a Joe Smith and lose draft picks too. We're cap locked AND miss our draft spot for 2 years, weeeeeee.


Of course no matter what it won't come to that, Stern wouldn't let it. But Detroit needs to put the zip it in effect ASAP on BG's camp.


Also, this is why I'm STRONGLY anti-cap space for the Pacers. The FA market is filled with overspending, year after year. It's not a good place to build a team. Trades and drafting are how to build a team.

Rip - trade
Billups - low-end FA signing
Prince - mid-round draft pick
Ben - trade
Sheed - highway robbery

While we are at it
Kobe - trade/mid first pick
Gasol - robbery
Odom - trade
Fisher - low-end FA signing
And while we're at it...

Magic:
Alston - Trade
Pietrus - FA
Turkoglu - FA
Lewis - FA
Howard - Draft

I wouldn't universally condemn FA...it's not a place to get your number one guy, I don't think. But in general, you can pick up many key guys (sometimes by overpaying) through FA. In general, like trades and the draft, it has its ups and downs. Wise spending, just like wise trading and drafting, is the key.

Hicks
06-17-2009, 09:55 PM
Orlando overpaid for Lewis and they're either about to lose or quite possibly overpay Turkoglu. I also don't think Orlando is that great anyway, despite how they did in these playoffs.

Kstat
06-17-2009, 10:06 PM
Good lord. Ben Gordon is the elite go-to scorer in the entire league among non-superstars. $55 million for him (starting at much less than $11 million) would NOT be breaking the bank. It'd be slightly above what he's worth.

That said, this deal only makes sense if two things happen: 1. Joe trades Rip, and 2. Joe finds a legit shot blocker up front to make up for Gordon's lack of height.

IMO, Gordon and Stuckey would compliment each other very well.

vnzla81
06-17-2009, 10:09 PM
Come on Detroit, pull a Joe Smith and lose draft picks too. We're cap locked AND miss our draft spot for 2 years, weeeeeee.


Of course no matter what it won't come to that, Stern wouldn't let it. But Detroit needs to put the zip it in effect ASAP on BG's camp.


Also, this is why I'm STRONGLY anti-cap space for the Pacers. The FA market is filled with overspending, year after year. It's not a good place to build a team. Trades and drafting are how to build a team.
Rip - trade
Billups - low-end FA signing
Prince - mid-round draft pick
Ben - trade
Sheed - highway robbery

While we are at it
Kobe - trade/mid first pick
Gasol - robbery
Odom - trade
Fisher - low-end FA signing

I agree, but the thing is how you are going to build a team if the Pacers are not bad enough to get a good pick, not good enough to make it to the playoffs and don't have enough pieces or cap space to make a trade happen?

Hicks
06-17-2009, 10:20 PM
You don't need much cap space at all to make a trade.

Step one is minimize your amount of bad draft picks to keep the talent pool high.

And you can usually use the MLE to sign a decent addition to a team.

ABADays
06-17-2009, 10:25 PM
There's no proof of tampering here. It's just Gordon's agent making claims. Tampering usually involves a team telling the media that they're interested in someone else's player.

And yet, if he said he would love to play with Lebron one day or see the sites of LA it wouldn't be tampering.

Trophy
06-17-2009, 11:14 PM
With Hamilton I assume Gordon will be a backup SG.

This definitly is very pricey.

Anthem
06-18-2009, 03:34 AM
Good lord. Ben Gordon is the elite go-to scorer in the entire league among non-superstars. $55 million for him (starting at much less than $11 million) would NOT be breaking the bank. It'd be slightly above what he's worth.

That said, this deal only makes sense if two things happen: 1. Joe trades Rip, and 2. Joe finds a legit shot blocker up front to make up for Gordon's lack of height.

IMO, Gordon and Stuckey would compliment each other very well.
MR, how would you rate this on the Kstat-o-meter?

edc
06-18-2009, 07:21 AM
Offensively i like ben gordon....

But if he got double team he rarely pass the ball...he will try to shoot the ball despite the double/triple team...

He also looks lazy to rebound....

cinotimz
06-18-2009, 08:12 AM
Good lord. Ben Gordon is the elite go-to scorer in the entire league among non-superstars. $55 million for him (starting at much less than $11 million) would NOT be breaking the bank. It'd be slightly above what he's worth.

That said, this deal only makes sense if two things happen: 1. Joe trades Rip, and 2. Joe finds a legit shot blocker up front to make up for Gordon's lack of height.

IMO, Gordon and Stuckey would compliment each other very well.

Similar response to the one given for the Iverson trade?

Slightly above what hes worth? I suppose some might define about 5 million a year as slightly.

From Chauncey and Rip to Gordon and Stuckey. Somehow I dont think that is sending fear throughout the NBA. In fact I have a feeling the whole league is praying its true. The Pistons will continue to accelerate their decline.

Trader Joe
06-18-2009, 08:37 AM
Good lord. Ben Gordon is the elite go-to scorer in the entire league among non-superstars. $55 million for him (starting at much less than $11 million) would NOT be breaking the bank. It'd be slightly above what he's worth.

That said, this deal only makes sense if two things happen: 1. Joe trades Rip, and 2. Joe finds a legit shot blocker up front to make up for Gordon's lack of height.

IMO, Gordon and Stuckey would compliment each other very well.

An elite go-to scorer? Seriously? I think that's stretching the truth just a wee bit.

What did Granger's salary start at in his new deal? A little over 12?

I'd say Gordon is worth a deal that starts around 8 million, but that's just my opinion.

I can't wait for the Ben Gordon avatar though. ;)

ESutt7
06-18-2009, 08:50 AM
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-41-106/First-Cup--Thursday.html

"So, Ben Gordon, do you or your agent have a backroom agreement to sign with Detroit when the free-agency period begins July 1? 'You can't even negotiate until July 1, so that's just rumors,' Gordon said Wednesday at his basketball camp in Lisle. 'I really don't know what's going to happen.' Several media outlets, including the Tribune, have reported Gordon is expected to be a primary target of the Pistons, who have roughly $23 million of salary-cap space. Former Tribune NBA reporter Sam Smith took matters to another level Wednesday, writing on Bulls.com that he has 'heard that Gordon's agent allegedly has been saying he has an $11 million promise from the Pistons.' ... 'One thing I've learned for sure in the NBA is you don't have a deal until something is signed,' Gordon said. "Come July 1, I'm excited to see what's out there. I'm excited with the possibility of getting a long-term deal.' "

Looking less likely that this is true.

Kstat
06-18-2009, 11:38 AM
An elite go-to scorer? Seriously? I think that's stretching the truth just a wee bit.

What did Granger's salary start at in his new deal? A little over 12?

I'd say Gordon is worth a deal that starts around 8 million, but that's just my opinion.

I can't wait for the Ben Gordon avatar though. ;)

Find me a better go-to guy among non-superstars.

A 5 year $55 million deal would start just a little over $8 mil, so yeah like I said, it's slightly more than what his fair market value would be.

He's a high quality scorer. I don't think he's a $10+ mil player, but he's far better than MLE level too.

Trader Joe
06-18-2009, 11:42 AM
So he's great go-to guy among non-superstars? Where does Granger fall into that? Is Granger a superstar? I'd take him over Gordon anyday of the week.

pacergod2
06-18-2009, 11:44 AM
This rumor is colder than a witches tit. Its shear blasphemy. The Pistons might have an interest in Ben Gordon to a degree, but I can damn near guarantee that it isn't starting in the 11M range. His agent just doesn't want his client to look TOOOOO stupid for not signing a 9M and 10M/year extension each of the last two years. His agent is just trying to leverage the Bulls (with a rival team) into making a significantly larger offer so he has something to go to other teams with at a higher starting figure.

The Pistons signing Gordon makes some sense. This is assuming that Boozer does NOT opt out and they send Rip, Amir Johnson, and the #15 pick for Boozer, Miles, and Korver. This also shaves 6M off the Jazz's payroll. The Jazz give up quite a bit, but it doesn't hurt their lineup terribly. they replace a shooter in Korver with a shooter in Rip. Amir fills in at PF behind Millsap. They give up Miles, who they like, but they can replace their backup PG position fairly easily, either through their #15 or #20 picks. Their starting PG is all world. That is a sick back court of DWill, Rip, with Brewer getting to learn from Rip. Brewer is legit and an excellent defensively. They have Kirilenko, Millsap and Okur in the front court. Then they can add the best available draft picks to round out the roster. Did I mention they save 6M on this deal so they can re-sign Millsap? Thats a big enough reason to do it with as much as they like the young Millsap.

If Boozer opts out, they just sign him outright and I think would just look to draft a guy like Gerald Henderson to back up Rip at 15. The Pistons DID extend Rip before last season, so extensions tend to indicate the team is looking to keep said player.

Kstat
06-18-2009, 11:44 AM
I'm talking about scoring ability, and not overall game.

I do believe he has the ability to catch fire and go on 1-man scoring binges like most superstars, but lacks in a lot of other areas, which ultimately keeps him from elevating himself to that next level.


Of course everyone would take Granger over Gordon. I never made that comparison.

But if there was 5 seconds left and I needed a guy to create a shot? That would be a tough call.

Trader Joe
06-18-2009, 11:46 AM
I'm talking about scoring ability, and not overall game.

I do believe he has the ability to score like most superstars, but lacks in a lot of other areas, which ultimately keeps him from elevating himself to that next level.


Of course everyone would take Granger over Gordon. I never made that comparison.

But if there was 5 seconds left and I needed a guy to create a shot? That would be a tough call.

I'm just curious as to what group of players you are placing in him. Not trying to compare Gordon and Granger.

Kstat
06-18-2009, 11:48 AM
I'm placing him in that "B" class of players, borderline all-stars like Joe Johnson, Ray Allen (the current version), Jason Terry, Caron Butler, etc. Guys that have a lot of talent but aren't in that elite class with the best.

IMO, it's really not a whole lot different from Rip Hamilton, who needed to go somewhere that maximized his strengths and minimized his weaknesses.

I think Gordon can get to the level rip got to here, where he was an all-star about every year, but pieces need to be put into place to compliment him. Stuckey and Tayshaun would be two such pieces, but more would be needed up front.

rexnom
06-18-2009, 02:07 PM
The other good thing about Gordon is that with him, you don't need your number one guy to be a clutch 4th quarter scorer. BG has that all to himself.

KStat's right. Ben Gordon for 55 mil is not a cap killer. Rashard Lewis for 118 million and Gilbert Arenas for 111 million, yes. 55 mil for a guy that's a proven playoff warrior? Reasonable I think.

Major Cold
06-18-2009, 03:59 PM
Gordon/stuckey backcourt might be good defensively. But I really think stuckey needs a ballhandling 2 to help him out. I like stuckey at the two moreso than at the point. He doesn't involve players like rip. Why would all of the sudden work with ben?

Kstat
06-18-2009, 04:16 PM
it's more of a tempo thing with Stuckey and Rip, I think. Stuck seems to need a faster pace, wheras Rip needs things slowed down for him.

Lance George
06-18-2009, 04:23 PM
Gordon's a nice scorer, just a notch below Granger, but he's also a terrible defender. How much of his productivity on offense will be nullified by the fact that guys will be having above-average nights being guarded by him? Does his overall impact on the game warrant eleven-million a year? I'd say eight-million is more reasonable. Maybe Joe Dumars sees a little of himself in Gordon?

Speaking of Dumars, if I'm him, I'm taking a good, hard look at Trevor Ariza. He could be another Ron Artest minus the mental retardation.

SoupIsGood
06-18-2009, 04:49 PM
I agree w/ K about Gordon and Stuckey complementing each other well. I'd actually really want to watch that.

ChicagoJ
06-18-2009, 05:15 PM
MR, how would you rate this on the Kstat-o-meter?

:lurk:

CableKC
06-18-2009, 06:08 PM
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-41-106/First-Cup--Thursday.html

Looking less likely that this is true.
With the way that I am reading it, he's neither confirming nor denying that there is such a deal in place IMHO, he's not really answering the question...if anything, I get the sense that IF there was a "hush hush" deal ( or IMHO an offer ) in place that he's trying to be as vague as possible to avoid any "wrong doing".

However, it's entirely possible that his agent is putting this out there to ramp up his asking price. I agree that this seems a little too high for a GM like Dumars to put out there. I'm guessing that there has been some talks....or maybe even an "under the table" offer.

I think that $11mil ( avg ) per year is too high for him over a 5 year period....but if there is a starting "asking price" for Gordon....we know that it's higher then what he was offered by the Bulls last season....which was about $10 mil a year. If Dumars is willing to pay that much for an above average scorer....it's up to him.

KStat ( not to pick on you ), I'm not sure if you answered it yet...but do you think that $11 mil a year is overpaying for a Player like Gordon?

IMHO, I think that's overpaying and very un-Dumar-like. I agree that he's totally worth more then the full MLE but probably closer to the $9 mil a year ( going up to $10 mil in the later years ) for 5 years type player. I know that we're just talking a few mil here and there when it comes to comparing $45-50 mil to $55 mil......but is he worth it? I guess it's debateable.

Kstat
06-18-2009, 06:46 PM
I think its slightly overpaying, but not by a lot.

I think if Joe has another deal or two lined up for some complimentary frontcourt help, then he's worth it. If not, then he's not worth it.