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View Full Version : Report: Suns, Cavs Talking Shaq...Suns Trying To Deal Shaq And Amare



MillerTime
06-14-2009, 12:16 PM
The Cavaliers and Suns are reportedly discussing a trade involving Shaquille O'Neal once again.

The rumor involves O'Neal, Ben Wallace and Sasha Pavlovic, but another source close to the situation said that "there's nothing going on" between the two clubs.

Multiple sources confirmed back in February that Cleveland and Phoenix had discussed a deal involving O'Neal.
ESPN
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4257421


The Suns could be looking to deal both Amare Stoudemire and Shaquille O'Neal this offseason.

An NBA general manager told the Boston Globe of the team's reported plans.

O'Neal is currently being mentioned in rumors involving the Cavaliers.
Boston Globe
http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/articles/2009/06/14/a_new_daye_on_horizon/?page=3
Marc J Spears

pwee31
06-14-2009, 12:18 PM
I understand the Cavs wanting to get Lebron some help, but I'm not sure Shaq is the answer

Pacers
06-14-2009, 12:22 PM
Does Shaqs deal end before The other twos? I could see The Cavs trying to free up some space to get LeBrons deal done asap.

MyFavMartin
06-14-2009, 12:25 PM
Don't like it for Phoenix.

vnzla81
06-14-2009, 12:30 PM
Cleveland is gonna need to trow some draft picks to do this, O'neal and Wallace contracts are done at the same time, this deal does not look good for Phoenix, but is good enough for Cleveland were they get a big guy to play againts Howard next year.

Sollozzo
06-14-2009, 12:36 PM
Does Shaqs deal end before The other twos? I could see The Cavs trying to free up some space to get LeBrons deal done asap.

Shaq is an FA in 2010. He signed that 5 year, 100 million deal in 2005 with Miami.

EDIT: I still say Cleveland should've found a way to make this happen at the trade deadline. The way Shaq was playing this year, he might have had enough in the tank to lead Cleveland to the finals.

But even though I'm fans of both Kobe and Shaq, the media hype for a Shaq vs Kobe and Lebron vs Kobe finals would have been just too much to take.

ESutt7
06-14-2009, 12:52 PM
Makes sense for both sides:

CLE gets a big that can guard Dwight one on one, so they wouldn't have to double off shooters which KILLED them in the ECF. Also get LeBron a buddy that can get him a ring. Then his 20 mil comes off the books to help the Cavs get a star to put next to Bron long term. Bosh, Wade, Amare, whomever.

PHX gets to save money. They save 10 mil in the first place because of luxury tax stuff. Then Wallace may retire (since he wouldn't be playing for a contender) and they could buy out his contract, saving them even more money. Pavlovic only has 1.5 of his 4.9 guaranteed, so they save money there too. PHX is always looking to cut costs, and since they're not elite, they may as well move Shaq and save cash this year.

PLUS the NBA gets the possiblity of hyping a (potential) Finals of Kobe vs. LeBron (best 2 players in the world), AND Shaq vs. Kobe (Battle for the One for the Thumb, both going for Ring #5.) Makes a lot of sense to me.

shags
06-14-2009, 12:54 PM
Cleveland is gonna need to trow some draft picks to do this, O'neal and Wallace contracts are done at the same time, this deal does not look good for Phoenix, but is good enough for Cleveland were they get a big guy to play againts Howard next year.

Disagree. Phoenix is more likely to do this deal than Cleveland. This will get the Suns closer to being under the luxury tax once they waive Pavlovic, as this move is purely financial for them. Does it make sense from a basketball perspective for Cleveland is the question?

pacergod2
06-14-2009, 01:37 PM
I think it helps BOTH teams from a basketball perspective. Shaq is great in the half court and the tempo that Cleveland plays is more conducive to his age. Plus, the big man can live off of dump passes from Mo and Bron. They have a post presence to take the pressure of taking on three and four players away from LeBron some since there will be shooters on the floor for Shaq to pass out of double teams to. Basically, it is another player to double team for the opposition. 2 on LeBron, 2 on Shaq, 1 on Mo, nobody on the other two players on the floor. It is a huge offensive upgrade from Ben to Shaq. Defensively, they are both pretty solid at this point in their career, but neither has much left in the tank. If anything Ben will be the one retiring after next year. Pavlovic is not a player the Suns will keep anyway. His 3.3M off the books and 6.6M savings because of the LT is worth more than he is as a player.

From the Suns perspective, they have their two young front court players to build around. Shaq and Amare never did well together on the floor. Shaq clogged the lane too much for Amare to use his explosiveness and quickness against other front court players offensively. I think Robin Lopez will be their center of the future. They love him. He is good defensively, rebounds well, blocks shots well. He is a great grind it out player that has some decent offensive skills (a few back to the basket moves and can hit a mid range jumper). Plus he is young and this allows Amare to be the main focus again in Phoenix which will make him MUCH happier. It significantly increases their ability to re-sign Amare as well. They can increase the tempo a little bit more, which plays into their strengths. Nash, Richardson, Hill, Amare, Lopez. They just need to add some depth with their draft picks. Plus, I think Cleveland will be swapping their first rounder for one of Phoenix's second rounders in this deal. Phoenix's players make more sense together without Shaq. I think we will see Phoenix re-sign Hill and Barnes and the three draft picks they have round out their roster. I could see them renegotiate Nash's deal as well. Nash getting 10M guaranteed for three seasons instead of one at 13.25M (only 8M guaranteed).

PR07
06-14-2009, 02:01 PM
Cleveland needs to make a splash. It's obvious that LeBron needs more help than just Mo Williams. I don't think Ferry can trot out the same roster without frustrating LeBron to an extent.

This move makes sense because Cleveland is not jeopardizing their long-term future and gets LeBron help now. The Cavs really have no one to score on the low block with their back to the basket. Big Z used to be able to, to an extent, but he's pretty much just a mid range jump pick and pop guy now. Shaq, when motivated, is still an all-star center in this league and can still be very much dominant at times. He'd take a lot of heat off LeBron both with the media and on the court.

CableKC
06-14-2009, 02:19 PM
Makes sense for the Cavs. Shaq is as slow as Big Z....but is far more productive then Wallace and Big Z combined. Especially if Kobe wins it all this year, I can see Shaq playing one season with Lebron to show that he can beat him in ( what I would guess would be ) a 2009-2010 Laker/Cavs Finals.

Brad8888
06-14-2009, 06:04 PM
The question is, which Shaq will show up? The overweight out of shape Shaq of a few years ago, or the rejuvenated Shaq who played well for Phoenix this past season? Could be that the motivation of winning a last ring would be enough to coax one more solid campaign from Big Aristotle. For Cleveland's sake, hopefully this would be the case if the trade happens. Otherwise, probably goodbye LBJ and nearly any hope of the Cavs being competitive.

From our standpoint, I may be hoping the trade happens and that chemistry problems develop on the Cavs while Shaq slows them down, making us even more competitive with Cleveland, while keeping them strong enough that they still beat most of the teams in the East. I'm not sure, though.

Sollozzo
06-14-2009, 06:24 PM
The question is, which Shaq will show up? The overweight out of shape Shaq of a few years ago, or the rejuvenated Shaq who played well for Phoenix this past season? Could be that the motivation of winning a last ring would be enough to coax one more solid campaign from Big Aristotle. For Cleveland's sake, hopefully this would be the case if the trade happens. Otherwise, probably goodbye LBJ and nearly any hope of the Cavs being competitive.

From our standpoint, I may be hoping the trade happens and that chemistry problems develop on the Cavs while Shaq slows them down, making us even more competitive with Cleveland, while keeping them strong enough that they still beat most of the teams in the East. I'm not sure, though.

I think a motivated Shaq would show up, and I say this for several reasons......

Historically, Shaq always plays pretty good when he first gets to a new team (this past year was his first full one in Phoenix).

Keep in mind, Kobe is probably going to tie Shaq for 4 rings this year. Now Shaq may not be as petty as he used to be and he might say he doesn't care about that, but I think deep down Shaq would love to retire knowing he has 1 more ring than Kobe.

And finally, Shaq's contract is up after next season. Shaq recently said that the Suns' training staff has probably extended his career 3 or so more years. So next year for him is auditioning for a nice 2-3 year contract somewhere.

Everything points to Shaq having another solid season next year, regardless of where it is. I would be STUNNED if he finished the season in Phoenix.

Trophy
06-14-2009, 08:09 PM
Weren't Cuban and the Dallas Mavericks interested too?

MrSparko
06-14-2009, 08:14 PM
Weren't Cuban and the Dallas Mavericks interested too?

Dear Lord I hope so. I might actually watch that reality tv show.

cdash
06-14-2009, 10:16 PM
I like that deal if I am Cleveland. You really aren't giving up anything to take a one year flyer on a guy that other players love to play with, and who owns three rings.

King Tuts Tomb
06-14-2009, 10:33 PM
ESPN is reporting that this deal would save PHX $10 million next year with the drop in salaries and luxury tax, maybe even more if Ben Wallace takes a buyout, so I can definitely see them doing it.

Wouldn't that be nuts if Shaq won titles with Kobe, Wade and LeBron? He'd be like a basketball Forrest Gump, always showing up at important events.

vnzla81
06-14-2009, 10:39 PM
If Shaq goes to Cleveland I think they would beat Orlando Celtics and Lakers if they go to the finals, it was stupid for Cleveland's not to make this trade before.They should also try to get a guy like Lamar Odom, Ron Artest and maybe Marvin Williams for them to match with the magic's big guys.

count55
06-14-2009, 10:54 PM
ESPN is reporting that this deal would save PHX $10 million next year with the drop in salaries and luxury tax, maybe even more if Ben Wallace takes a buyout, so I can definitely see them doing it.

Wouldn't that be nuts if Shaq won titles with Kobe, Wade and LeBron? He'd be like a basketball Forrest Gump, always showing up at important events.

In the three titles with Kobe, Shaq averaged 35.9 pts, 15.2 rebs, 3.5 asts, and 2.9 rebounds in the finals...and he won the Finals MVP all three years.

Seems to me to be a little more than "showing up" at the event.

Sollozzo
06-14-2009, 11:07 PM
In the three titles with Kobe, Shaq averaged 35.9 pts, 15.2 rebs, 3.5 asts, and 2.9 rebounds in the finals...and he won the Finals MVP all three years.

Seems to me to be a little more than "showing up" at the event.

Those 3 years, Shaq was as good if not better as anyone in the history of the game.

pacergod2
06-14-2009, 11:10 PM
I really love King Tut's commentary. I wish he would post more often. In this instance Count, my opinion of "The Diesel" is spot on with you. Shaq was the centerpiece to those championships. Kobe was the ultimate complement. Young and skilled. Let him do what he can. Shaq was that team though. Why were Rick Fox and Derek Fisher and Robert Horry so magnificent in those series? Because they were set up so well by the focus of other teams defensive schemes. Shaq was priority #1 to defend the Lakers. You throw your best wing on Kobe to attempt to keep him frustrated as a young player. Be physical with Kobe. Shaq you knew would make a decent pass out of the double team. You almost HAVE to let Horry and Fisher and especially Fox kill you because your defensive assets are so consumed by Shaq and Kobe. You pick your battles. Those role players determined if the Lakers blew someone out or hang close to them. Shaq was the centerpiece of those teams, however. Shaq also would NOT have won those championships WITHOUT Kobe. The argument of who was the best player on those championships is a hind sight thought process made up by the media to drive controversy. Shaq was priority in the opposing coaches defensive schemes and therefore SHOULD have been MVP, and he was.

vnzla81
06-14-2009, 11:14 PM
Those 3 years, Shaq was as good if not better as anyone in the history of the game.

not just that, at that time he changed the NBA, there were teams that just drafted big players with the hope that they could give them six fouls per game just to try to stop the big Diesel, there is guys that made a career for been big just to get dunk on, remember Scott Pollard?

pacergod2
06-14-2009, 11:15 PM
Greg Ostertag?

ESutt7
06-14-2009, 11:19 PM
I like that deal if I am Cleveland. You really aren't giving up anything to take a one year flyer on a guy that other players love to play with, and who owns four rings.

Fixed. :)

Major Cold
06-14-2009, 11:25 PM
Eric Montross? Wait wrong thread.

jeffg-body
06-15-2009, 12:18 AM
I saw this as a quick flyer down at the bottom of the tv. Very interesting the more I think about it with the little they would have to give up on the big, yet old diesel. You know though those old diesels can run millions of miles.

PR07
06-15-2009, 12:18 AM
Shaq is probably the most dominant player I've seen in his prime. Once he caught it in the paint, it was almost always game over. He'd frequently foul out 2 big men a game that tried to guard him.

I don't really see how the Cavs could lose in this. Teams aren't going to be knocking on their door and offering them a young all-star big man for a shell of his former self, essentially just an expiring contract, Ben Wallace and Sasha Pavlovic. Shaq may not be young, but he's still an all-star talent, and acquiring him doesn't hinder any long-term plans. If Shaq's motivated, he still can be dominant in stretches. He's not going to carry a team anymore, but there are still stretches in a game where he can turn it on, and no one really has an answer. Even if Shaq doesn't pan out, you'd have to think LeBron would appreciate the effort.

As for the Suns, if I'm them, I'm pushing for a future first round pick or JJ Hickson.

cdash
06-15-2009, 12:38 AM
Fixed. :)

Ahh, yeah, duh, forgot about the one with Miami. Thanks for the correction.

vnzla81
06-15-2009, 10:16 AM
If phoenix is trading Amare the Pacers better jump all over that, I would trade anybody but Danny for him, I wonder if phoenix would accept a package of Troy,Jack and pick for him, maybe Roy or Rush and pick Barbosa contract.

MillerTime
06-15-2009, 10:35 AM
If phoenix is trading Amare the Pacers better jump all over that, I would trade anybody but Danny for him, I wonder if phoenix would accept a package of Troy,Jack and pick for him, maybe Roy or Rush and pick Barbosa contract.

Amare is great but the problem with him is that hes not a good defender, which is our concern. He doesn't bring athleticism to the Pacers but hes definitely not a good defender, nor is Barbosa.

I wouldnt want to give up Jack, but if we were to move Ford or even Tinsley along with Murphy I would be happy because its not like Murphy's defensive is great either.

Overall I do love Amare. The pros outweigh the cons

ESutt7
06-15-2009, 12:05 PM
Keep in mind though, he'd be a FA after next season and I sincerely doubt he'd want to stay in Indiana. He's interested in going to NY to be with D'Antoni and has already made a few comments about it. That and I don't think we have what it takes to get him without really hurting our future core.

Shade
06-15-2009, 12:11 PM
That would be an excellent deal for the Cavs. Low risk, high reward.

King Tuts Tomb
06-15-2009, 12:48 PM
In the three titles with Kobe, Shaq averaged 35.9 pts, 15.2 rebs, 3.5 asts, and 2.9 rebounds in the finals...and he won the Finals MVP all three years.

Seems to me to be a little more than "showing up" at the event.

I meant show up more as "be present at" and not "just a bystander." He's been a large part of so many huge NBA moments of the last decade. Helping LeBron win a title would perfectly complement everything else he's done.

By no means would I ever disparage Shaq. He's the most dominating big man of my lifetime.

ESutt7
06-15-2009, 01:25 PM
RANDOM QUESTION: Has there ever been a team that had 3 former #1 overall picks on it? The Cavs could have Shaquille O'Neal, Joe Smith, and LeBron James. I'm thinking that's rare. Anyone know of another team that had that?

Hicks
06-15-2009, 01:37 PM
RANDOM QUESTION: Has there ever been a team that had 3 former #1 overall picks on it? The Cavs could have Shaquille O'Neal, Joe Smith, and LeBron James. I'm thinking that's rare. Anyone know of another team that had that?

I thought of the 2005 Miami Heat when you said this, but I looked and what I was thinking of was different, but still interesting.

That 2005 Heat team had the top 3 picks from the 1992 NBA Draft on it:

1) Shaquille O'Neal
2) Alonzo Mourning
3) Christian Laettner

count55
06-15-2009, 01:39 PM
RANDOM QUESTION: Has there ever been a team that had 3 former #1 overall picks on it? The Cavs could have Shaquille O'Neal, Joe Smith, and LeBron James. I'm thinking that's rare. Anyone know of another team that had that?

The Lakers spent most of the '80's with three #1's: Magic, Kareem, and Worthy...adding Mychal Thompson to the mix as a fourth in 1987.

Sollozzo
06-15-2009, 01:44 PM
I thought of the 2005 Miami Heat when you said this, but I looked and what I was thinking of was different, but still interesting.

That 2005 Heat team had the top 3 picks from the 1992 NBA Draft on it:

1) Shaquille O'Neal
2) Alonzo Mourning
3) Christian Laettner

Yep, I remember that well.

And to add to what you said, picks 4 (Jimmy Jackson) and 5 (Laphonso Ellis) also played with the Heat at some point in their career. Jackson played there in 01-02 and Ellis from 01-03.

Pretty wild to have had all top 5 picks from a draft play for you at some point, and even wilder to have the top 3 on the same team at once.

It doesn't stop there though. Clarence Weatherspoon and Harold Miner (the player the Heat actually drafted that year) also were drafted in 92 and played for the Heat. In total, I think they had 7 players from that draft play for them. Wild.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_1992.html

ESutt7
06-15-2009, 01:54 PM
The Lakers spent most of the '80's with three #1's: Magic, Kareem, and Worthy...adding Mychal Thompson to the mix as a fourth in 1987.

Nice. The Heat thing is interesting too. Pretty funny.