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Smoothdave1
06-08-2009, 10:27 PM
Per Draft Express notes: www.draftexpress.com/article/Reebok-Eurocamp-Day-Two-3251/

-Jordan Hill potentially slipping into the bottom of the top-10 or even possibly slightly beyond. The talk is that the Washington Wizardsí 5th pick could very well end up being claimed by Stephen Curry (whether for them or another team trading up), and that since Minnesota, Golden State, New York and maybe even Toronto appear to be looking at other positional needs, Hill could be on the short end of the stick come draft night.

Other notable pieces of interest:

-Ron Artest as a willing and interested free agent target for both Greek powerhouses this summer, Olympiacos and Panathinaikos, granted he does not find a superior NBA offer on the free agent market.

-The medicals of various NBA draft prospects, including Missouriís DeMarre Carroll, who may need a liver transplant in the near or long-term future, DeJuan Blair, whose knees and arthritic condition are a major concern to certain teams, and A.J. Price, who reportedly still has an aneurysm in an artery of his brain that could become a serious issue later in his career.

-- Australian Patrick Mills was absolutely the star of the eveningís all-star game, posting an impressive 30 point performance on 8/18 shooting from the field and 12/13 from the line. Mills handled the ball on a string all game long, showing terrific quickness keeping his man off balance, and making an absolute living in the mid-range area with his deadly pull-up jumper. His ability to utilize strong hesitation moves makes him extremely difficult to stay in front of, and he did a good job not settling for tough shots from beyond the arc today, getting to the line repeatedly. He clearly thrives in up-tempo settings such as the one seen in todayís all-star game, which came in stark contrast to his morning performance, where he seemed to over-dribble somewhat while trying to create in the half-court.

NBA teams we spoke to still expressed some doubt regarding his point guard skills, which is something he could still stand to work on. He posted 3 assists compared with 4 turnovers in the evening game, seeming to be hunting shots quite a bit, and didnít look all that comfortable getting others involved. Scouts generally were impressed by the quickness and shot-creating ability he showed, and he also did a better job defensively today as well.

Anthem
06-08-2009, 11:50 PM
-Jordan Hill potentially slipping into the bottom of the top-10 or even possibly slightly beyond. The talk is that the Washington Wizardsí 5th pick could very well end up being claimed by Stephen Curry (whether for them or another team trading up), and that since Minnesota, Golden State, New York and maybe even Toronto appear to be looking at other positional needs, Hill could be on the short end of the stick come draft night.
:pray:

Shade
06-09-2009, 12:03 AM
I would be beyond ecstatic if Hill dropped to us. He's the guy I've wanted for a while now.

Of course, knowing my luck, we'd pass on him or draft him and trade him ala Bayless. If that happened, my reaction last season would look like a Disney cartoon compared to this year.

Taterhead
06-09-2009, 12:04 AM
I just can't see it. At worst I think NJ would snatch him up in a heartbeat.

Naptown_Seth
06-09-2009, 01:18 AM
Hill falling out of the top 10. Good luck with that. It's going to be tough to choose between him and Griffin when Grif also falls out of the top 10. ;)


But boy does this match what my complaint on Patty Mills was earlier this year...


NBA teams we spoke to still expressed some doubt regarding his (Mills) point guard skills, which is something he could still stand to work on. He posted 3 assists compared with 4 turnovers in the evening game, seeming to be hunting shots quite a bit, and didn’t look all that comfortable getting others involved.
He and Curry squared off back at the end of the season and both chucked a ton of their own shots, not just by PG standards but SG standards too.

I like Mills handles and quickness, but at this point he's no passer.

d_c
06-09-2009, 02:16 AM
The fact that Hill might fall out of the Top 10 in a draft where he's getting passed over for some guards who would have been taken in the teens in previous drafts doesn't speak well of him.

You can't compare Hill falling in the draft to Granger falling in the draft. Granger doesn't play PF and he had questions about his knees coming into the draft.

Considering Hill's size (he's obviously not undersized), position and the fact that there's no other PF any good besides Griffin, there's no way he should fall out of the Top 5 if he's any good at all.

Trader Joe
06-09-2009, 02:24 AM
I would be beyond ecstatic if Hill dropped to us. He's the guy I've wanted for a while now.

Of course, knowing my luck, we'd pass on him or draft him and trade him ala Bayless. If that happened, my reaction last season would look like a Disney cartoon compared to this year.

Then knowing your luck he'll rot on the bench somewhere, and then get mentioned as a thrown in for his team to get a new PF in the draft next year.

I'm sorry I've never been enamored with any of these guys from Arizona. If they were as good as they get hyped before every draft their team would have been better the past two years.

Dr. Awesome
06-09-2009, 02:41 AM
I just can't see it. At worst I think NJ would snatch him up in a heartbeat.

They would without hesitation. Hill won't make it to #13.

d_c
06-09-2009, 02:49 AM
They would without hesitation. Hill won't make it to #13.

Probably not, but it's nothing to agonize over. The guy just isn't that great.

Major Cold
06-09-2009, 08:53 AM
I really don't think you can make an assertion of draft chatter. He had a good combine, and the scouts are not touting him in other workouts. It could be that other player's agents are getting their client more hype, while Hill's is not getting a foot in the door.

Shade
06-09-2009, 10:08 AM
I'm sorry I've never been enamored with any of these guys from Arizona. If they were as good as they get hyped before every draft their team would have been better the past two years.

You mean the same Arizona team that finished in the Sweet Sixteen? :hmm: Griffin's Sooners only made it one round further.

That's not a fair comparison at all. From what I saw of Hill, I saw the kind of player the Pacers need, one not too far from the mold of a Dale Davis, IMO. Sure, #5 may be a little high to take Dale Davis, but at #13 he would be a steal. Hell, if he slips to around #9-10, I'd try hard to trade up and grab him.

naptownmenace
06-09-2009, 10:27 AM
A couple other things to consider about Hill is that he's really raw. He's only had the one good year in college (this past junior season) and only played 3 years of organized ball in High School and 3 in College. He has potetential but I think it's limited. He might become as good as Udonis Haslem at best which, IMO, isn't all that great. I think those are the real reasons he might slip.

Draft Express compares him to "Chris Wilcox with better rebounding" at best and "Ronny Turiaf" at worst. I will admit that he has a similar build and style as Kenyon Martin, which is whom he said he admired. (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jordan-Hill-1222/)

Granted at pick 13, if he falls that far, he'd be a good pick up for the Pacers and I'm pretty sure they'd select him.

rexnom
06-09-2009, 10:36 AM
A couple other things to consider about Hill is that he's really raw. He's only had the one good year in college (this past junior season). He has potetential but I think it's limited. He might become as good as Udonis Haslem at best which, IMO, isn't all that great.

Draft Express compares him to "Chris Wilcox with better rebounding" at best and "Ronny Turiaf" at worst.

Granted at pick 13, if he falls that far, he'd be a good pick up for the Pacers and I'm pretty sure they'd select him.
I'd be thrilled with Ronny Turiaf at 13 in this draft. Turiaf is a decent low-post defender and a good rebounder. As he proved last year, he can be the first big man off the bench for a title contender. If you get that from 13 (and in a bad draft, at that), that's a win.

And I say this never having seen Hill play outside of the tournament.

d_c
06-09-2009, 10:46 AM
It could be that other player's agents are getting their client more hype, while Hill's is not getting a foot in the door.

Jordan Hill shouldn't need any kind of hype at all from his agent if he's any good. None at all. He should have an automatic, built in advantage over other prospects just based on his size and position.

He plays a premium position and he's got the prototypical size to do it, along with no injury history or red flags. Anyone like that who's any good at all wouldn't be sweating about falling out of the Top 5 in a weak draft.

croz24
06-09-2009, 11:57 AM
jordan hill probably isn't even a top 20 player in this draft...

PR07
06-09-2009, 12:03 PM
In a stronger draft, Hill isn't even a lottery pick. He seems like he'll be a nice role player, but I think we can get a much better player at #13. He'll probably be a pretty good rebounder and might block a few shots, but I haven't seen any go-to offensive moves from him. Basically, Ronny Turiaf.

Jonathan
06-09-2009, 12:16 PM
I would be beyond ecstatic if Hill dropped to us. He's the guy I've wanted for a while now.

Of course, knowing my luck, we'd pass on him or draft him and trade him ala Bayless. If that happened, my reaction last season would look like a Disney cartoon compared to this year.

I know what a great trade for the Pacers we clearly got the better end of the deal.

Lance George
06-09-2009, 12:35 PM
Hill's a good player. I don't think he'll ever be great, but he'll give you everything you want out of a big man. He's more skilled than Wilcox, more athletic than Gooden, and has a higher basketball IQ than both. I'd say Hill ending up on either of their level is a worst case scenario. There's almost zero chance he slides past all three of Milwaukee, New Jersey, and Charlotte, so if he drops to the bottom half of the top-10, we need to be talking to Toronto about a deal.

Major Cold
06-09-2009, 04:37 PM
http://www.draftexpress.com/agents/Bill-Duffy-11/

Billy Duffy also represents Jennings. And he represents Rondo, who also fell on draft day.

Hill should not need it, but others do to jump him?

CableKC
06-09-2009, 04:49 PM
Hill's a good player. I don't think he'll ever be great, but he'll give you everything you want out of a big man. He's more skilled than Wilcox, more athletic than Gooden, and has a higher basketball IQ than both. I'd say Hill ending up on either of their level is a worst case scenario. There's almost zero chance he slides past all three of Milwaukee, New Jersey, and Charlotte, so if he drops to the bottom half of the top-10, we need to be talking to Toronto about a deal.
I agree with you that there is no way that Hill slips past those Teams. If DeRozan is available at their pick.....the Raptors will go for him since he won't drop to 13. The only chance would be if they went for Henderson....the problem is that we don't have anything of value that would entice the Raptors to draft Hill.

billbradley
06-09-2009, 05:02 PM
That's not a fair comparison at all. From what I saw of Hill, I saw the kind of player the Pacers need, one not too far from the mold of a Dale Davis, IMO. Sure, #5 may be a little high to take Dale Davis, but at #13 he would be a steal. Hell, if he slips to around #9-10, I'd try hard to trade up and grab him.

i don't know if anyone already posted this from an older chad ford chat wrap, but here you be

Chat with Chad Ford
http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/26641


Nasher(NY)

Who is this year's Brook Lopez, a player considered to be a high pick but drops for whatever reason? I have my money on Jordan Hill. I think the Nets are going to luck out again by getting him at 11.

Chad Ford

Maybe. I think he's Dale Davis with a little more upside. In this draft, though, that's a compliment. I think Washingon at No. 5, the Raptors at No. 9 and the Bucks at No. 10 all have to take a serious look. I don't see him slipping by all three teams.

Naptown_Seth
06-09-2009, 06:49 PM
The fact that Hill might fall out of the Top 10 in a draft where he's getting passed over for some guards who would have been taken in the teens in previous drafts doesn't speak well of him.

You can't compare Hill falling in the draft to Granger falling in the draft. Granger doesn't play PF and he had questions about his knees coming into the draft.

Considering Hill's size (he's obviously not undersized), position and the fact that there's no other PF any good besides Griffin, there's no way he should fall out of the Top 5 if he's any good at all.
Here's the problem...

HE HASN'T FALLEN ANYWHERE YET!

No warning bells are going off because nothing has happened. The fact that someone is talking RUMORS about him falling suggests that someone really wants to smokescreen the issue and probably means someone else wants him.

Contrast this with last year where there were not many rumors about Bayless other than one troublesome one - that his personality wasn't coming off well in workout after workout. That wasn't enough to get him mocked out of the top 10 even 5 minutes before the draft started.

So the truth was there and no one was talking about draft stock. Meanwhile the talk was often about fake moves that were going to happen.

If you start pairing a "if the Wiz take Curry" with actual workout reasons, medical issues and multiple occurances of these rumors, then you got something. For now it sounds like the Wizards really, really, really want to trade down and are trying to say that Hill can be had if you are willing to trade up.



Hill vs Dale - I didn't see it at all. He's closer to Tony than Dale, but only in pure overall game balance (ie, offense vs defense). He's moderately comfortable back to the rim, definitely comfortable facing up, lanky style, not really power but not a scrawny lightweight, and appears to have some more growth still ahead.

He came off as pretty mature this year I thought. Seems like he has a solid personality.

Zero chance the Pacers get him unless the Wiz want TJ Ford and the 13th pick for filler (do they even have any).



jordan hill probably isn't even a top 20 player in this draft...
No, we are talking about Jordan Hill from Arizona, not the kid your talking about.

dohman
06-09-2009, 09:04 PM
Hill would need to add 2-3 inches to him arms to be compared to Dale Davis. No way is he the enforcer that dale was.

pianoman
06-09-2009, 09:20 PM
If we got a great deal from the Wiz, I'd take him. Would LB like him? Would he fit in our offense?

Spirit
06-09-2009, 10:18 PM
Jordan Hill has NO basketball IQ. Zilch. Nadda. He's dumber than Kwame Brown. Literally. My dog knows more about playing the game of basketball than he does. I'm not even exaggerating, either.

Anthem
06-09-2009, 10:31 PM
JMy dog knows more about playing the game of basketball than he does. I'm not even exaggerating, either.
No matter how bad he is, I think you're exaggerating a little.

billbradley
06-09-2009, 10:33 PM
Originally Posted by JGray
JMy dog knows more about playing the game of basketball than he does. I'm not even exaggerating, either


No matter how bad he is, I think you're exaggerating a little.

how dare you question air bud

skyfire
06-10-2009, 12:55 AM
Hill falling out of the top 10. Good luck with that. It's going to be tough to choose between him and Griffin when Grif also falls out of the top 10. ;)


But boy does this match what my complaint on Patty Mills was earlier this year...

He and Curry squared off back at the end of the season and both chucked a ton of their own shots, not just by PG standards but SG standards too.

I like Mills handles and quickness, but at this point he's no passer.

Based upon what I've seen of Mills for St Mary's and the Australian national team, I think he could surpass the success that TJ Ford has experienced. He has been playing as a primary option for the Gaels and energy bench player for Australia, so his game is focused on scoring, but I think the Pacers open court style would suit him. Based on the PG depth in this draft, if the Pacers could get a late 1st rounder and obtain him with it I think it would be a great pick. All dependant on dealing TJ and retaining JJ however.

Lance George
06-10-2009, 01:21 PM
There's a rumor from ESPN Insider that has Dallas sending Josh Howard to the Wizards for #5. With the earlier talk of Dallas being infatuated with Jordan Hill, me thinks this deal going down would end any chance of Hill slipping come draft night.

Speed
06-10-2009, 01:25 PM
Guys are moving all over the board with only 2 weeks to go. I really think we could see some Bayless type drops. I guess I'm really starting to think they'll be someone(s) at 13 that will be a nice get.

Trader Joe
06-10-2009, 06:52 PM
You mean the same Arizona team that finished in the Sweet Sixteen? :hmm: Griffin's Sooners only made it one round further.

That's not a fair comparison at all. From what I saw of Hill, I saw the kind of player the Pacers need, one not too far from the mold of a Dale Davis, IMO. Sure, #5 may be a little high to take Dale Davis, but at #13 he would be a steal. Hell, if he slips to around #9-10, I'd try hard to trade up and grab him.

Arizona made it to the sweet 16, I'm aware. They also floundered in the watered down Pac 10 for the entire season.

Major Cold
06-10-2009, 06:54 PM
Might it be possible that Arizonia has struggled because of the coaching situation?

Naptown_Seth
06-10-2009, 07:23 PM
Based upon what I've seen of Mills for St Mary's and the Australian national team, I think he could surpass the success that TJ Ford has experienced. He has been playing as a primary option for the Gaels and energy bench player for Australia, so his game is focused on scoring, but I think the Pacers open court style would suit him. Based on the PG depth in this draft, if the Pacers could get a late 1st rounder and obtain him with it I think it would be a great pick. All dependant on dealing TJ and retaining JJ however.
Possible, but like I say with any players when someone says "...could do this", the issue is are we seeing anything to say that right now?

The Pacers need a good PASSING PG, someone to run the offense. They have TJ Ford and his score first style hurt the offense in the starting role. Now if you need to move Ford to fix another hole, and then replace his bench PG role with Mills then maybe.


My warning sign on all this is every year tons of guys get hyped up and they all can make it, but the reality is that maybe 5-6 total guys are really going to do something. If I assume Griffin which seems reasonable, then you have to pick 4-5 others and know the rest will probably do little to nothing. Does Mills really stand out far above the others?

Last year was a rarity, one of the deepest drafts yet. It's not so much that I dislike Mills, just that it's a tough sell that he's got enough NBA caliber skills to really be what he is in other settings, or harder yet to be something new and different to what he's been up till now.

This is what I don't see Curry as any kind of NBA PG, it's not what he does well. He runs off ball like a pro and hits catch and shoots, that's enough to stick. But expecting him to be a PG is a huge risk. Patty Mills as a pass-first PG also seems like a risk.

He is quick though and has pretty good handles.



AZ was much better this year than they were last year with Bayless there. Of course Budinger was a big factor in that.

But as I've mentioned before, AZ/AZ St was a great proof-of-concept game because you had Chase vs Harden and Hill vs Pendergraph. From that view they were the 4 best guys out there and seemed to go at each other well. Hill appeared more talented than Pendergraph by enough to see how he's top 5-6 to me while Pendergraph is more like a #20 (and looks to be falling well below that, could be a rare 2nd rounder that hangs onto a roster).

MillerTime
06-11-2009, 08:41 AM
Heres an update:

If the Warriors don't use the seventh overall pick on Jordan Hill, experts believe that he may fall to the lower half of the lottery.

Hill has been slipping down draft boards lately, and the Oklahoman is the latest outlet to report a slide.
Oklahoman
http://blog.newsok.com/nbainokc/2009/06/09/jordan-hills-draft-stock-slipping/
By Mike Baldwin

Doddage
06-11-2009, 12:57 PM
Is anyone else getting a similar vibe that a pretty good player will fall to us on draft night again? I don't know if it'll be Hill, Jennings, or whomever, but teams appear to be changing their minds by the week. Maybe things will turn out as expected when the time comes, but for right now, I'm not totally convinced that that's the case.

pwee31
06-11-2009, 01:11 PM
I'm not high or Jordan Hill. I've followed Arizona for a while. I've always pulled for them, aside since the Bibby days, whenever IU had a tough year.

I just don't see Jordan Hill being more then a energy guy... like a Varejo type player.

Sure the guy could work on his skills some, but I just don't see him really being a force in the league