PDA

View Full Version : diamond dave 00 is claiming *update* Terry and Jackson to Indy



Hicks
07-05-2004, 09:17 PM
*update* See page 4 for the latest*

I'd normally ignore this, but a) It's a guy who's posted here and on IS for a while and b) aren't we all ready for SOMETHING to talk about?

This came from this IS thread:

http://www.indystar.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=71107

First he said:


The Pacer are making two trades both involve sign and trades. As such they can not occur until after July 15th.

I respond:


And you know this, how?

Then I see this:



Lets just say trust me on this one.

We are currently working on 2 seperate deals, one involves acquiring 2 players (1 of of who is a sign and trade) . The other depends on offers he gets if he goes beyond a certain point the mle we will be forced into a sign and trade.

Bird has his eye on 3 players.

If one of these trades occurs a player traded will be someone who people will be unhappy to see moved.

Neither move will occur before the 15th and more likely the 19th.

Obviously there is no way to know if he's making it up or not, but since he's never done so before that I've seen, plus I'm bored, I'm paying attention to it.

Could be interesting.

OK, assuming for the moment this IS true, who do you think is involved? I have no real idea about who we're getting, but as for who's shipping out, my guesses are Al, and then the "unhappy to see go" will either be Ron, Jamaal, or Jeff.

I'm anxious to find out if there's any truth to this.

kerosene
07-05-2004, 09:24 PM
Diamond Dave posts here too.

Hicks
07-05-2004, 09:26 PM
Yeah, I know, I think I said that first actually :laugh:

Hicks
07-05-2004, 09:26 PM
I'm starting to suspect (IF this is true), who we're getting... but I almost don't want to say. I don't wanna freaking jinx it.

kerosene
07-05-2004, 09:27 PM
oops. heh.

Shade
07-05-2004, 09:28 PM
Okay, I'll play along. :)

1) For the "sign-and-trade," it pretty much has to be a FA. Does anyone have a list of FAs right now? Since we need a SG, I'm going to guess Quentin Richardson.

2) The "player who people will be unhappy to see moved" will most likely be Ron. Possibly Jamaal or Freddie. I really don't know of anyone else that fits this criteria other than JO, and he's not going anywhere.

Shade
07-05-2004, 09:29 PM
I'm starting to suspect (IF this is true), who we're getting... but I almost don't want to say. I don't wanna freaking jinx it.

You're thinking PP, aren't you? ;)

Hicks
07-05-2004, 09:32 PM
*cough* and Blount

Hoop
07-05-2004, 09:34 PM
Q Rich and Blount with only giving up Al, Pollard or Cro :pray:

Please keep Ron Ron :pray:

Shade
07-05-2004, 09:38 PM
So...what would we have to give up for Pierce and Blount?

Will Galen
07-05-2004, 09:38 PM
I'm starting to suspect (IF this is true), who we're getting... but I almost don't want to say. I don't wanna freaking jinx it.

You're thinking PP, aren't you? ;)

If it's PP, that probably means we lose Artest.

75Ranger
07-05-2004, 09:43 PM
Im sure the players hes referring to that we would be upset to lose would be Artest, Freddie Jones, Tinsley, Foster.

I have a feeling the players we are targeting in the FA front is Q. Richardson, Dampier, and Jamal Crawford. I like all 3 players even though they all have flaws in there game and even though Im willing to give up Artest I don't think I would trade him for any of these players. The only exception would be Artest and filler to Golden State for Dampier and Dunlevy that I would have to think about because I really love Dunlevys game. I wouldn't give Artest up for any package on the Bulls roster or the clippers roster even though I like Crawford and Richardson.

Shade
07-05-2004, 09:44 PM
Yeah, the only guy I would consider sending Ron off for is Pierce.

mr oven cover
07-05-2004, 09:45 PM
peirce? come on? am i the only one that hates peirce here? i may be new to boards, but i know the pacers and the nba just like you guys do...and paul peirce? getting paul peirce would make me undoubtfully almost become less of a pacers fan :mad:. maybe it's just a thing i have for hating the celtics.

(but of course i like larry legend)

"we liked the celtics when you were playing"
"fans like you, hate the team when they're bad, but love 'em when they're good. you can have these fans."
/celtic pride

something like that.

but all i'm sayin' is, i don't want paul peirce!!
spelled peirce wrong -_-

able
07-05-2004, 09:51 PM
god thing we will not get paul peirce, I'm sure however most of us would be very happy with getting paul pierce.

as for Dampier, NO NONONONO he's not worht it.

two players that are usefull and worth Ron, outside of Shaq and Kobe, are Ray Allen and Paul Pierce.

Blount Pierce sounds logic, though Allen is also an option in this scenario, look for other then Q-Rich in that case to be the near MLE victim

Snickers
07-05-2004, 10:04 PM
I didn't want to bring this up, but I'm bored and I figure this is a good a time as any.

edit: I'll call him "my source," don't want to get him in trouble. He told me that Larry [who is actually the guy in charge of trades, but he has the option of deferring to Donnie if he chooses] has a deal with Boston lined up, that would send us Blount and Pierce for Harrington and Artest, with cash to fill in the blanks.

I dunno what this second deal is, but I assume it's for Troy Hudson, since my source told me Larry's got the hots for him too.
remove source's identity

75Ranger
07-05-2004, 10:05 PM
Ray Allen in my oppinion is the perfect player for this pacer team. Hes known for his jumper but the man really has no weaknesses on the offensive end.

The only concern with I have seen with Allen is can besides being banged up alot and the big contract he has is that hes really never put a team on his back ala Reggie Miller has, Kobe, ect.

Can he knock down big jumpers and take over games that hang in the balance. Now everywhere hes been his whole career hes been the franchise player now coming to Indiana I think he'll do even better because of the fact teams will have to contend with one of the premier big men in the league.

If we do manage to get Allen I wouldn't trade Harrington though. Give him the starting smallforward spot. We know he'll he'll give us energy, excellent team defender and get you 12-15pts a game. I would be concerned if we go into next season getting rid of our two toughest defenders.

Zesty
07-05-2004, 10:07 PM
I wish I knew some people in the know. :(

able
07-05-2004, 10:09 PM
I see the first part as a reasonable and positive option for us, however Troy??? surely there's better to be gotten, to expensive for a backup if he exceeds the MLE anc certanily not better then Tins.

Snickers
07-05-2004, 10:10 PM
I'm talking to my source as I type this, and he's telling me that we're looking to trade Jermaine to free up cap space to sign Kobe Bryant. And Houston has offered Yao for Croshere.

<insert more "inside knowledge" crap>

:rolleyes:

See, it's just too easy to pretend you know things. It's fun to speculate, but I won't believe anything until I see it happen.

Snickers
07-05-2004, 10:12 PM
:laugh:

I was going to see how many people I could fool into believing my story, just to prove how easy it is to get overzealous with rumours and "inside knowledge."

But I figured that would be cruel and inhumane. Which now makes me wonder why I didn't do it. :(

Hicks
07-05-2004, 10:14 PM
Aww :censored: you Snickers. I DID believe you.

:grumble: :soundoff: :pissed:

75Ranger
07-05-2004, 10:15 PM
I didn't want to bring this up, but I'm bored and I figure this is a good a time as any.

edit: I'll call him "my source," don't want to get him in trouble. He told me that Larry [who is actually the guy in charge of trades, but he has the option of deferring to Donnie if he chooses] has a deal with Boston lined up, that would send us Blount and Pierce for Harrington and Artest, with cash to fill in the blanks.

I dunno what this second deal is, but I assume it's for Troy Hudson, since my source told me Larry's got the hots for him too.


I remember Bird being very high on Paul Pierce in the past but its going to be pretty hard to find a starting unit that consists of Tinlsey, Miller, Pierce as bad defensively as these three are. Pierce I think could be a good defender but has yet to show hes committed to excel in that area and we all know about our starting backcourt defensively last year.
I guess maybe they will consider starting Fred next year.

Snickers
07-05-2004, 10:17 PM
Aww :censored: you Snickers. I DID believe you.

:grumble: :soundoff: :pissed:

:flirt:

*mental note: Hicks is very gullible*

Hicks
07-05-2004, 10:18 PM
Well, even though Snickers was ************ us, Pierce could still be the target. I know from MY source that he's someone we've looked into, and I'm NOT joking.

Snickers
07-05-2004, 10:21 PM
edit: dangit, double post.... first time I've ever done that. :(

Snickers
07-05-2004, 10:21 PM
Pierce would almost certainly require Artest from our end. That's a textbook "defense for offense" move.... unless management really is tired of Ron, I don't like that move. :neutral:

On the other hand, if we managed to get him without giving up Ron, I'll do a Mexican hat dance naked on my roof.

Aw Heck
07-05-2004, 10:32 PM
Well, Snickers is right, it is really easy to get overzealous with trade rumors. I fell for it too. :dunce:

I have a friend from school who knows Chris Thomas(Zeke's son). He told me about a month ago that the Pacers agreed to two trades, Al/Bender/Foster/1st rounder for McGrady and Artest for Bonzi Wells. Of course, I got excited.

Neither trade went down. I remember, though, that both trades were mentioned specifically in some articles a few weeks before McGrady was finally traded.

(No, I'm not making any of that up.)

I don't know whether or not Diamond Dave is just messing around or not, but at least it's fun talking about. Even if his source is legitimate, either one of the trades could fall through by July 15. I'm taking it with a grain of salt, as should everyone.

Shade
07-05-2004, 10:34 PM
Aww :censored: you Snickers. I DID believe you.

:grumble: :soundoff: :pissed:

:flirt:

*mental note: Hicks is very gullible*



*mental note: Snickers is :banned:*

:devil:

Lord Helmet
07-05-2004, 10:46 PM
Don't trade Ron!!!!!:mad::mad::mad:

Snickers
07-05-2004, 10:52 PM
USER IGNORED

Shade
07-05-2004, 10:53 PM
USER BANNED

:finger:

Snickers
07-05-2004, 10:56 PM
USER BANNED

:finger:


I can't talk to you. I'm banned. :cry:

Shade
07-05-2004, 10:58 PM
USER BANNED

:finger:


I can't talk to you. I'm banned. :cry:

Poor baby. Have a banana. :fatbanana:

Hicks
07-05-2004, 10:58 PM
All right enough with the de-railing of the thread.

Anyone else hears something, be sure to let us all know. And no more stupid ******** gags. :grumble:

Snickers
07-05-2004, 11:01 PM
http://e.deviantart.com/emoticons/s/salute.gif

Aye aye.

MSA2CF
07-05-2004, 11:09 PM
Okay Hicks, I'll try:

Kobe Bryant/Gary Payton

and: Vlade Divac

Hicks
07-05-2004, 11:39 PM
Bryant and Payton? Keep dreaming.

MSA2CF
07-05-2004, 11:45 PM
Bryant and Payton? Keep dreaming.

Okay...I was just keeping with the theme of the thread. :p

Well, now, I'll take your advice for real, Hicks. :goodnight:

Unclebuck
07-06-2004, 12:07 AM
Well Diamond dave's scenerios are so general and so vague that who knows they could very well happen.

Merz
07-06-2004, 12:12 AM
Artest for PP.......NEVER:mad:

Kegboy
07-06-2004, 12:14 AM
Well Diamond dave's scenerios are so general and so vague that who knows they could very well happen.

I just noticed his name on the party list. Guess we're just gonna have to beat it out of him.

:plot:
---
:duel:

Diamond Dave
07-06-2004, 12:50 AM
Hey guys whats going on. While granted I enjoy logging on and seeing my name on a title thread, its all news to me.

This Diamond Dave is not the one on the STAR forum. I have never posted on that site. In fact I rarely post here, but rather just read. I do read it everyday and have been reading your guys posts for years from the early days at the STAR.

Still just to clarify this mess (so I'm not called out for a failed prediction), I am not the same Diamond Dave who apparently has Nostradamus powers.

I'm just Diamond Dave: Lurker, Observer, "The Watcher"

Props to any Marvel fans who understand the last title.

Aw Heck
07-06-2004, 01:19 AM
Well, there goes the RATS dd's credibility. :smartass:

Thanks for clearing things up, Diamond Dave. :thankyou:

Anthem
07-06-2004, 01:44 AM
Two signings, ehh?

Croshere for Blount/Adkins.
MLE for QRich.

:D

EDIT: I'd actually prefer an S&T of Harrington for Manu. But whatever.

TheSauceMaster
07-06-2004, 02:47 AM
Dear god in heaven , please dont't let PP be a Pacer next year ..

Signed , TSM

efx
07-06-2004, 07:06 AM
I don't see why some of you guys don't like PP. The guy's a superstar and clutch to boot. A master at both driving to the basket and shooting from the outside. And also very good at drawing fouls.

mr oven cover
07-06-2004, 08:14 AM
he's also a master ball hogger.

Aw Heck
07-06-2004, 08:51 AM
the RATS version of diamond dave responded with more details following the Star article:


Well todays Indy star clears up some of it. No I WAS NOT MAKING IT UP.

The Jackson one is the rumored Terry,and resigned Jackson trade rumor. Bird , is not sold on Tinsley . Mike Brown has been consulted as the article says about Jackson. BUT we are not going to over spend on him.

Both Bird and Walsh are on agreement on who they want. A key in acquiring both Jackson and Terry is the fact they became good friends this season in Atlanta.

Terry adds quickness which Bird and Walsh see as a key on stopping the point guard penitration into our defense. Something Tinsley has been unable to provide.

He also is not as erratic as Tinsley with the 3. Not a great 3 point shooter he is more consistant than Tinsley less 0 for 7 then 4 for 4 nights. He's more 2 for 6 every night.

The dilema for Bird is they are torn on Dampier . They know he is a 12ppg,12rpg player but not sure he's 10 mil worthy. The fact Harrison fell to them clouded the picture.

Harrison is a virtual Dampier clone. Walsh, is a Dampier fan but also has serious reservations on a 4-5 year deal at 43-55 mil range.

To get all 3 Terry , Jackson and Dampier will be difficult but Bird and Walsh both feel it can be done.


Barry's request for a 4 year deal was a little suprising to them also. They had planned on a 2 year offer feeling at33 this winter they could see 2 years , 4 they feel is too much.

Fisher is not coming they had initial intrest but appears his price is a little high.

As I said yesterday expect nothing till the 15th at earliest but more likely the 19th.

Jose Slaughter
07-06-2004, 09:24 AM
Hoops Hype has Jason Terry listed at 7M next season. Jackson is looking for a deal starting around the mid level exception, 5.1 or what ever it is.

Thats 12M the Hawks would be sending us.

We would have to send back 10.2 or more

Harrington & Bender are 12.6

I would not to that deal.

Unclebuck
07-06-2004, 09:27 AM
Hoops Hype has Jason Terry listed at 7M next season. Jackson is looking for a deal starting around the mid level exception, 5.1 or what ever it is.

Thats 12M the Hawks would be sending us.

We would have to send back 10.2 or more

Harrington & Bender are 12.6

I would not to that deal.


I would not do that deal either

able
07-06-2004, 09:36 AM
So at least we know this is BS in a major form, If we wanted to get rid of tins, then he would've been added to the lot offered to the Magic, swoop no pain, get terry and Jackson and move on.

Tins was moved into the line-up and has done great, not failed us 1 time. Saying anything else is utter nonsense.

To even think that the Pacers are condidering paying Damp anywhere near a max (I would even say they would not consider a dime over the MLE) for Damp is also absolute BS and would definitely not stroke with the not signing of Brad, to even think that Damp is worth the same kind of money is idiotic.

Accepting damp would only be if we could trade him and f.i. J-Rich for Cro and Polly, that way the loss would not be shown since those contracts hurt us anyway.
But to think we would give up good players to do that deal is obviously a rocking horse accident result.

well it was fun speculating :)

but all these deals are so bad they have nowhere near the Pacesr signature of smart trades and signings.

bulletproof
07-06-2004, 09:53 AM
Well, if Jackson is leaving the Hawks anyway, then essentially we'd be trading for Terry, who I know Donnie has expressed interest in before. Now, I also know Billy Knight has told Donnie that it would take no less than Ron to pry Terry away from Atlanta. So, take that for what it's worth and read into it what you will.

Suaveness
07-06-2004, 10:21 AM
Ron for Terry would be terrible.

And I see nothing wrong with Tinsley. He has been one of the more consistant players on this team

able
07-06-2004, 10:39 AM
Well, if Jackson is leaving the Hawks anyway, then essentially we'd be trading for Terry, who I know Donnie has expressed interest in before. Now, I also know Billy Knight has told Donnie that it would take no less than Ron to pry Terry away from Atlanta. So, take that for what it's worth and read into it what you will.

May mr Knight be happy with Terry, we have no interest in him unless he is willing to take Polly, which would make me sad anyway, ust because the guy has a sense of humor :D

MSA2CF
07-06-2004, 10:58 AM
Don't forget that Paul and Jermaine are best friends now after they did that commercial together. :rolleyes:

:p

sixthman
07-06-2004, 11:01 AM
The two free agents who might be available for reasonable amounts ---less than a million over the MLE --- and who would seem to fit well are:

Stephen Jackson and Mark Blount.

Neither seem to be priorities of teams under the cap who can drive their signing price sky high.

Both are apparently available in sign and trades.

What if both deals were packaged in the same trade?

For example:

Hawks get Al Harrington and Chucky Atkins. Sign and trade Steven Jackson to Indiana and trade Chris Crawford and his expiring contract to Boston.

Boston gets Jeff Foster, Freddie Jones and Chris Crawford. Sign and trades Blount to Indiana and sends Chucky to Atlanta.

Indiana signs Stephen Jackson and Mark Blount for about 12 mil total. Pacers trade Al Harrington, Fred Jones and Jeff Foster to get them, a salary of about 11.9, plus Jeff's trade kicker.

We give up a lot, but the parts added should make us better at both ends of the court.

Both Stephen Jackson and Mark Blount can hit an open shot and both are considered good defenders.

EDIT: I had forgotten the Celts drafted nearly a half dozen guards, so they don't need Freddie. Atlanta probably would however. I also think the Hawks could sweeten this deal by taking an expiring contract off of Boston's hands. Atlanta is so far under the cap barring a big free agent signing, that they are able to take an expiring contract to sweeten a trade or to add future draft picks.

MSA2CF
07-06-2004, 11:13 AM
6th, your idea is interesting, but I believe Jeff is a Pacer for life.

Kegboy
07-06-2004, 11:23 AM
Jason Terry = :puke:

Bird thinking that Terry would be a better point than Tinsley = :banghead:
---
:duel:

Hicks
07-06-2004, 12:21 PM
I don't see why some of you guys don't like PP. The guy's a superstar and clutch to boot. A master at both driving to the basket and shooting from the outside. And also very good at drawing fouls.


I agree with you; I'd love to have him and he'd be great for us.

Snickers
07-06-2004, 12:25 PM
I'd like Pierce here, but I wouldn't say he's great at driving to the basket. Handles = not so good.

Lord Helmet
07-06-2004, 12:25 PM
The thought of losing Ron :shudder: And I've heard Artest for Bonzi.If Ron for Bonzi ever happens I might as well. :suicide:

Shade
07-06-2004, 12:29 PM
What do you think it would take to pry Pierce and Blount from Ainge? Ron and Jeff/Scot, maybe?

Hicks
07-06-2004, 12:32 PM
By the way, it's not necissarily RON for Terry. If Larry's looking at someone to get in place of Tinsley, likely the bait is Tinsley and Al together.

Unclebuck
07-06-2004, 12:36 PM
What do you think it would take to pry Pierce and Blount from Ainge? Ron and Jeff/Scot, maybe?



It will take more than that.

First, I don't believe for one minute the Celtics will trade Pierce.

But to get Pierce and Blount, it will take, Artest, AL and maybe Pollard.

Dukins
07-06-2004, 01:06 PM
I think if we want BLount, terry and jackson is to just dign blount to some of the MLE and sign and trade Jackson and Terry. The Pacers stated they do not want to gut the roster but if we are thinking about adding three players we would undoubtedly gut the roster, unless the team we are trading to is taking crappy players.

Young
07-06-2004, 03:27 PM
I'm guessing that the two players we are looking at are:

- Stephen Jackson.
- Eric Dampier.

I think we would have had Jackson last year if we would have had a roster spot. He has expressed alot of intrest in Indiana and that goes 2 ways. He also has a great relationship with Mike Brown who brought him into the league.

Eric Dampier has been reported to be on our radar for awhile. I've heard he wants to come here, he didn't want to leave in the first place and that management likes him. Also that JO has been recruiting him.

We sign Stephen Jackson. If he is traded for I say for Bender.

I think that Al/Pollard or Foster will be dealt for Dampier.

Call me crazy but if this all is true, the above senario is what I think could go down.

BTW: I think we can forget about Q. There have been no rumors of us being interested, it's all been talk on boards. Yes he would be a good fit but I don't think we are as interested in him as in Jackson or Barry. No there doesn't have to be rumors for something to be true but did todays star article mention Q as a possabilty?

Hicks
07-06-2004, 03:38 PM
I'm hoping we get Terry too. I just like him. Not that I'm a fan of ditching Tinsley, but if we're going to, I believe Terry would be a good 1 for us, kind of like Billups was for Rick in Det. I know they're different types of players, but what I do see that's similar is both have partially a SG mentality, but both can do what's needed to run the offense, and both can kill you from 3. Plus if he's our 1, he's quick enough to stay with the other quick PGs in the league defensively. And that quickness could also be useful on offense.

That aside, I agree with rommie. Although I'm not positive about us getting Damp though.

The guy I'm most thinking will be here is S.Jax.

75Ranger
07-06-2004, 04:09 PM
[quote=Hicks]I'm hoping we get Terry too. I just like him. Not that I'm a fan of ditching Tinsley, but if we're going to, I believe Terry would be a good 1 for us, kind of like Billups was for Rick in Det.
quote]

Ideally I would like to see Jason Terry as a combo guard off the bench like a Bobby Jackson.I guess if we get him he'll be starting. He can obviously play pg but doesn't have great vision on the court and and is really only an average passer for a pg.Hes just not a true setup man.

However Terry represents what most pgs in this league are nowadays that is offensive minded scorers, and when you do find a true pg like Tinlsey people get on him for not being able to score or a threat to score.I actually think if we keep Tinlsey,Terry would fit in rather nicely with him. Similar to the Jackson/Best days where Best was the change of pace guard off the bench.

With all that being said Im high on Terry.I remember watching him in Arizona when he wasn't offensive minded and playing behind Bibby and he was a tremendous on the ball defender.We all know how much Carlisle talked about stopping pg penetration. Terry has the quickness and the ability to do just that.Even though so far in his NBA career hes hasn't excelled defensively I believe with a coach like Carlisle who demands defense. Also Terry won't have to carry as huge an offensive load as he was forced to in Atlanta.I think he would fit in rather nicley.

Snickers
07-06-2004, 04:10 PM
rommie, the Pacers historically make trades/signings that nobody sees coming. So just because there haven't been published rumours of us pursuing Richardson doesn't mean we're not interested.

I still want Blount, no matter which 2-guard we get.

able
07-06-2004, 04:25 PM
Dampier, nuff said, nevvah for that money, how many times do we need to read it, he is not worth 10 mil qa year, not now, not ever, never!

Will he get that? yes. as simple as that, look at how many "bigs" are available this year and come to the conclusion that he nad Blount have a good period ahead of them, Blount will most likely command more then the MLE and again is serioulsy doubt he is worth that much, we have a big draft, with college behind him, we have Jeff and what the &%$ make Polly do some work for the money we are paying him anyway.

As the overpaying is taking new heights it would not surprise me to see Blount starting out at 6.5 mil somewhere and Damp at 10+

As for Terry?

no thanks, I said that last year, and I'll say it again, we haven't seen the half of it yet as far as Tins is concerned and Terry's percentages are no better then Tins, consider Tins had some "confrontation games" early in the season where he obviously was not playing as he should or had very short time on the floor but compare the stats:

Jason Terry
Atlanta Hawks
Position: G
Height: 6-2 Weight: 180
College: Arizona '99
Player file | Team stats
2003-04 Statistics
PPG 16.8
RPG 4.1
APG 5.4
SPG 1.53
BPG .20
FG% .417
FT% .827
3P% .347
MPG 37.3


Jamaal Tinsley
Indiana Pacers
Position: G
Height: 6-3 Weight: 195
College: Iowa State '01
Player file | Team stats
2003-04 Statistics
PPG 8.3
RPG 2.6
APG 5.8
SPG 1.62
BPG .33
FG% .414
FT% .731
3P% .372
MPG 26.5

Tins 11 les minutes, same FG% better 3pt% rpg is the time difference but same # of assists, in 2/3 of the time.

Tins IS already better then Terry and has 2 years less in the league and plays on a team where he has a distro function instead of a shot function.
Please bare in mind that Terry at the percentage he's shooting had to take a lot more shots then Tins to get those points.

I see no improvement there except perhaps some on defense and must then say, Tins improved enormously on defense (has a better steal % then Terry again in 2/3 of the time as well as a better bpg) and I for one think he did well most of the year, as well as the fact that I'm sure he can even improve more.

A trade like this for Terry is not to the Pacers advantage.

As for Jackson being comparable to J-Rich, well in that case I prefer J-Rich, younger and a hell of a lot more upside, better slasher and as a shooter coming around as well, same FG % only needs to get the 3 down, who better then Chuck and Reggie to help him.

Ragnar
07-06-2004, 04:34 PM
If we could sign Jackson straight out or in a sign and trade for Pollard or someone equally as useless to us it would be ideal. We would not be gutting our team and we would be getting a pretty good player in the mean time.

Now the idea of trading Tins and getting Terry makes me sick. No way do I want him playing the point. He would make a decent combo coming off the bench but we know we wont get him for that.

If we could get Blount for the mid level and sign Jackson in a sign and trade for AL that would also work as we know Al wont be happy coming off the bench anymore.

Just dont gut this team!!! And dont trade Tins.

MSA2CF
07-06-2004, 04:43 PM
Acquiring Terry would alter how this team plays. This team likes to attack the basket and then kick it out. I think Terry would do too much jumpshooting/breaking up plays for himself, somewhat like Ronnie does sometimes. I think getting him would be a mistake.

Young
07-07-2004, 02:38 AM
I'm hoping we get Terry too. I just like him. Not that I'm a fan of ditching Tinsley, but if we're going to, I believe Terry would be a good 1 for us, kind of like Billups was for Rick in Det. I know they're different types of players, but what I do see that's similar is both have partially a SG mentality, but both can do what's needed to run the offense, and both can kill you from 3. Plus if he's our 1, he's quick enough to stay with the other quick PGs in the league defensively. And that quickness could also be useful on offense.

That aside, I agree with rommie. Although I'm not positive about us getting Damp though.

The guy I'm most thinking will be here is S.Jax.

I agree on Terry.

We could really hurt teams with a backcourt of Terry/Jackson and a frontcourt of Ron/JO/Foster.

Makes it harder to double team.

Anthem
07-07-2004, 03:57 AM
rommie, that's like the all-one-on-one team. It would be kinda nice to have people that pass the ball.

Ron Artest is the best distributer in that lineup.

Hicks
07-07-2004, 12:19 PM
You're judging Terry on what he does in Atlanta, but you also have to consider he'd become more of a passer here. But we don't need a heavy distributor, just a modest one. The idea is to get some offensive production from our backcourt to go along with what our frontcourt produces.

Snickers
07-07-2004, 12:26 PM
Maybe he could be a Billups-esque PG; balancing his distributing and scoring skills. That could work, but it could backfire too.

Hicks
07-07-2004, 12:31 PM
Maybe he could be a Billups-esque PG; balancing his distributing and scoring skills. That could work, but it could backfire too.

I said that yesterday. :unimpressed: :) Kudos to pioneering us forward by adding that it could backfire though :thumbsup: :laugh:

Snickers
07-07-2004, 12:41 PM
:blush:

Well, he's smaller than Billups too. And his socks are taller. Now I feel relieved, having added something more to what you'd already said. :D

Hicks
07-07-2004, 10:37 PM
*update*

I suspected it was something like this (aside from the "Maybe it's Paul Pierce" angle), and he seems to confirm it. We'll find out soon (10+ days) if he's right, but I have a hunch this is it:



2 forms to Hawks and Jackson.

One option is sign him if the salary is below mle which will not be set until the 14th report is may go down to 4.9.

Then Harrington/Tinsley/ for Terry deal

If his offer is above that the rumored Harrington/Tinsley /Pollare for reisned Jackson and Terry takes place

The Warriors are considering letting Dampier walk. That would definately take Pacers out of market for him.


Getting all 3 Dampier,Jackson, Terry is looking less likely.

Brian Cardinal is a player to keep in mind if Jackson is acquired in a trade.

I believe him; it makes a lot of sense.

I know about 75% of you will hate it if it happens; Terry will have to EARN your love :laugh:

Here's what we got:

Terry/Wright/Jones (AJ?)
Jackson/Miller/Jones
Artest/Jackson/Bender
O'Neal/Bender/Croshere
Foster/Harrison/Pollard

or

Terry/Wright/Jones (AJ?)
Jackson/Miller/Jones
Artest/Jackson/Bender
O'Neal/Bender/Croshere (Cardinal?)
Foster/Harrison (Cardinal?)

I'm betting most of you will hate it. I like it, while I admit it's risky.

Guess we'll find out. :cool:

I'll argue my case later. Maybe I'll wait until if and when it happens.

bulletproof
07-07-2004, 10:50 PM
Here's what we got:

Terry/Wright/Jones (AJ?)
Jackson/Miller/Jones
Artest/Jackson/Bender
O'Neal/Bender/Croshere
Foster/Harrison/Pollard

or

Terry/Wright/Jones (AJ?)
Jackson/Miller/Jones
Artest/Jackson/Bender
O'Neal/Bender/Croshere (Cardinal?)
Foster/Harrison (Cardinal?)

I'm betting most of you will hate it. I like it, while I admit it's risky.

Guess we'll find out. :cool:

I'll argue my case later. Maybe I'll wait until if and when it happens.

Why do you think it's risky, Hicks? If we pick up Terry and Jackson without losing Ron the Pacers are going to be staggering. Terry will learn how to play within Rick's system. Plus he didn't have many options to distribute the ball to in Atlanta. Donnie's had his eye on Terry for awhile now, so he must think he can fit in here.

75Ranger
07-07-2004, 10:50 PM
*update*

I suspected it was something like this (aside from the "Maybe it's Paul Pierce" angle), and he seems to confirm it. We'll find out soon (10+ days) if he's right, but I have a hunch this is it:



2 forms to Hawks and Jackson.

One option is sign him if the salary is below mle which will not be set until the 14th report is may go down to 4.9.

Then Harrington/Tinsley/ for Terry deal

If his offer is above that the rumored Harrington/Tinsley /Pollare for reisned Jackson and Terry takes place

The Warriors are considering letting Dampier walk. That would definately take Pacers out of market for him.


Getting all 3 Dampier,Jackson, Terry is looking less likely.

Brian Cardinal is a player to keep in mind if Jackson is acquired in a trade.

I believe him; it makes a lot of sense.

I know about 75% of you will hate it if it happens; Terry will have to EARN your love :laugh:

Here's what we got:

Terry/Wright/Jones (AJ?)
Jackson/Miller/Jones
Artest/Jackson/Bender
O'Neal/Bender/Croshere
Foster/Harrison/Pollard

or

Terry/Wright/Jones (AJ?)
Jackson/Miller/Jones
Artest/Jackson/Bender
O'Neal/Bender/Croshere (Cardinal?)
Foster/Harrison (Cardinal?)

I'm betting most of you will hate it. I like it, while I admit it's risky.

Guess we'll find out. :cool:

I'll argue my case later. Maybe I'll wait until if and when it happens.

Am I the only one in here who thinks that if we did decide to trade both Tinsley and Al we could get more then Jackson(I assuming Jackson will command more then the MLE) and Terry. Personally I think Al is a better player then Terry is right now. If Al is a starter he'll average 16pts and 8bds a game on a good team, on a bad team like the Hawks he could probably get 18-20pts a game. For Atlanta getting Tinsley is like gravey.

One more thing I like Steven Jackson, hes a solid player and will probably give us 12-15pts a game but if we can't get him for the MLE then I don't think we should go after him. At the beginning of FA I thought it was possible but now with all these FA getting big money thrown at them and Steven Jackson having done more in his career then most of these guys, he might expect a deal that starts off at 7million per year. I don't think we should overpay for him.

Hicks
07-07-2004, 10:53 PM
Here's what we got:

Terry/Wright/Jones (AJ?)
Jackson/Miller/Jones
Artest/Jackson/Bender
O'Neal/Bender/Croshere
Foster/Harrison/Pollard

or

Terry/Wright/Jones (AJ?)
Jackson/Miller/Jones
Artest/Jackson/Bender
O'Neal/Bender/Croshere (Cardinal?)
Foster/Harrison (Cardinal?)

I'm betting most of you will hate it. I like it, while I admit it's risky.

Guess we'll find out. :cool:

I'll argue my case later. Maybe I'll wait until if and when it happens.

Why do you think it's risky, Hicks? If we pick up Terry and Jackson without losing Ron the Pacers are going to be staggering. Terry will learn how to play within Rick's system. Plus he didn't have many options to distribute the ball to in Atlanta. Donnie's had his eye on Terry for awhile now, so he must think he can fit in here.



I tend to agree with you. The risk is Terry fitting (I tend to think he will, most disagree I think) and Bender/Jackson filling Al's void. Bender being the larger risk there.

Generally I agree and think this is a good move and makes us either a little or possible considerably better. I think Rick will use Terry kind of like he used Billups (and they are different types of players, but hear me out), in that he's a scoring PG who can make passes, but also can bomb it from 3.

bulletproof
07-07-2004, 11:06 PM
I tend to agree with you. The risk is Terry fitting (I tend to think he will, most disagree I think) and Bender/Jackson filling Al's void. Bender being the larger risk there.

Generally I agree and think this is a good move and makes us either a little or possible considerably better. I think Rick will use Terry kind of like he used Billups (and they are different types of players, but hear me out), in that he's a scoring PG who can make passes, but also can bomb it from 3.

The addition of Terry and Jackson immediately makes us a more well-balanced team. Especially without losing Ron. And deep, too. I was hoping for more of killer at the 2 spot, but Jackson is only 26 and we really only need someone who poses a serious threat from the outside to draw defenders out of the paint so Ron and Jermaine can pound away on the inside. Plus our defense appears to improve with this line up. This could be exciting if it happens.

75Ranger
07-07-2004, 11:17 PM
Here's what we got:

Terry/Wright/Jones (AJ?)
Jackson/Miller/Jones
Artest/Jackson/Bender
O'Neal/Bender/Croshere
Foster/Harrison/Pollard

or

Terry/Wright/Jones (AJ?)
Jackson/Miller/Jones
Artest/Jackson/Bender
O'Neal/Bender/Croshere (Cardinal?)
Foster/Harrison (Cardinal?)

I'm betting most of you will hate it. I like it, while I admit it's risky.

Guess we'll find out. :cool:

I'll argue my case later. Maybe I'll wait until if and when it happens.

Why do you think it's risky, Hicks? If we pick up Terry and Jackson without losing Ron the Pacers are going to be staggering. Terry will learn how to play within Rick's system. Plus he didn't have many options to distribute the ball to in Atlanta. Donnie's had his eye on Terry for awhile now, so he must think he can fit in here.



I tend to agree with you. The risk is Terry fitting (I tend to think he will, most disagree I think) and Bender/Jackson filling Al's void. Bender being the larger risk there.

Generally I agree and think this is a good move and makes us either a little or possible considerably better. I think Rick will use Terry kind of like he used Billups (and they are different types of players, but hear me out), in that he's a scoring PG who can make passes, but also can bomb it from 3.



Its risky for Indiana because there are alot of ifs associated with Terry. Will Terry become the defender he was in college, where he stuck to you like glue,(he has yet to show the same kind of intensity and committment to defense in the NBA) will he be able to handle being a setup man, will his shot selection improve, Will Ron and Terry fit well together. Both like to take alot of shots and have the ball in there hands.How will Ron be affected by this, also they're were reports that he was lazy, and didn't play hard in atlanta.Then again maybe thats what happens when you lose every time you step on the court.

I like Terry alot and potentially could be a better fit but again I think Al for Jason Terry is pretty fair from a talent perspective.I don't see why we have to through Tinsley in there as well.Jackson we shouldn't have to trade for, if he commands more then the MLE I don't think we should even go after him. Hes a nice player but hes not worth 7-8million a year.

Unclebuck
07-07-2004, 11:26 PM
I don't know what I think about this possibility. How good can Terry be. That is the key question.

I know one thing if I liked Tinsley as much as many of you do, then I would be screaming bloody murder right now. But since I don't, I don't have a strong opinion about this Terry and Jackson for AL and Jamaal.

MagicRat
07-07-2004, 11:28 PM
...they're were reports that he was lazy, and didn't play hard in atlanta.Then again maybe thats what happens when you lose every time you step on the court.

All right. Stop trying to de-rail the thread and turn it into a grammar/apostrophe/contraction free-for-all.......:p

ChicagoJ
07-07-2004, 11:30 PM
Look at the PGs that Rick allegedly prefers: Travis, Chauncey, etc. aren't "quarterback-style" PGs.

I'm a big fan of Tinsley. I'm not sure Rick is. I'm not opposed to Terry, although he isn't my type of PG. Its Stephen Jackson that I'm not sold on at all. He still has a tendency to prove why every team passed on him (making him a second-round pick) at very inopportune times.

For what its worth, Billy Knight owes "us" more than just not hiring Mike Brown after he gave the championship to Detroit.

Another move like that, and he'll drop completely out of my list of all-time favorite Pacers, where he's still comfortably in the top-ten. :mad:

Shade
07-07-2004, 11:31 PM
Hmm...this would be quite a risk. If we can sign Jackson straight-out, why not trade Al for a big man? Is Terry really worth the gamble?

blanket
07-07-2004, 11:39 PM
One element this potential deal would add that I don't think has been mentioned yet is the competitiveness, attitude, and leadership those players bring in place of Harrington and Tinsley. I'm not sure Harrington has the focus or basketball IQ (at least yet) to excel at the higher level we need, and Tinsley doesn't seem to have the leadership skills and passion at times needed as well. I think those are things Bird and Walsh are looking for...

ChicagoJ
07-07-2004, 11:46 PM
I wonder if Tinsley is getting blamed for being unable to control the offense on the court during the periods when we're all (okay, many of us) mad at Ron for playing selfish. After all, when Rick is screaming to give the ball to JO, *somebody* is giving it to Ron *who then holds it for too long*.

:whoknows:

bulletproof
07-07-2004, 11:46 PM
Its Stephen Jackson that I'm not sold on at all. He still has a tendency to prove why every team passed on him (making him a second-round pick) at very inopportune times.

Wasn't this year's finals MVP bounced around quite a bit before he finally found a home in Detroit?

Hicks
07-07-2004, 11:52 PM
Yeah. And besides, if Donnie and Larry thought they weren't worth it, they wouldn't do it. So if it happens, obviously they feel they'll be fine.

Unclebuck
07-07-2004, 11:55 PM
I wonder if Tinsley is getting blamed for being unable to control the offense on the court during the periods when we're all (okay, many of us) mad at Ron for playing selfish. After all, when Rick is screaming to give the ball to JO, *somebody* is giving it to Ron *who then holds it for too long*.

:whoknows:



Don't think anyone is doing that. I certainly am not.

Terry has never been on a winning team in the NBA, so we have no idea what he would be like in a big NBA game, even a big regular season NBA game, because he has never played in a big game before, except in college.

ChicagoJ
07-07-2004, 11:57 PM
Its Stephen Jackson that I'm not sold on at all. He still has a tendency to prove why every team passed on him (making him a second-round pick) at very inopportune times.

Wasn't this year's finals MVP bounced around quite a bit before he finally found a home in Detroit?

True. But he had some pretty crappy coaches and some bad situations (especially Denver and Orlando). Stephen Jackson about gave Popovich an ulcer on a championship-winning team.

Hicks
07-07-2004, 11:59 PM
Apparently Mike Brown was/is Jackson's mentor. That has to help us.

bulletproof
07-08-2004, 12:00 AM
Its Stephen Jackson that I'm not sold on at all. He still has a tendency to prove why every team passed on him (making him a second-round pick) at very inopportune times.

Wasn't this year's finals MVP bounced around quite a bit before he finally found a home in Detroit?

True. But he had some pretty crappy coaches and some bad situations (especially Denver and Orlando). Stephen Jackson about gave Popovich an ulcer on a championship-winning team.

The operative words being, "championship-winning team." ;)

Young
07-08-2004, 12:05 AM
I think that Terry-Jackson for Tinsley-Harrington-Pollard would help us alot.

We add more scoring and defense to the backcourt.

Also, say we were to just sign Jackson, who would we get for Harrington that is useful?

Part of the reason why I am for this deal, if all of this is true.

Arcadian
07-08-2004, 12:05 AM
Chauncy also was picked 3rd in the draft. There is a big difference between the two's projected ablilities. I don't really like the trade. I wait to be angry for when it actually happens.

ChicagoJ
07-08-2004, 12:09 AM
I wonder if Tinsley is getting blamed for being unable to control the offense on the court during the periods when we're all (okay, many of us) mad at Ron for playing selfish. After all, when Rick is screaming to give the ball to JO, *somebody* is giving it to Ron *who then holds it for too long*.

:whoknows:



Don't think anyone is doing that. I certainly am not.

-snip-



I'm just trying to make some sense out of Chad Ford's comment that "While both players still have been productive, the team wants more leadership at the point and a younger shooter at the two."

Dr Huxtable
07-08-2004, 12:11 AM
Do it! :dance:

Unclebuck
07-08-2004, 12:14 AM
I wonder if Tinsley is getting blamed for being unable to control the offense on the court during the periods when we're all (okay, many of us) mad at Ron for playing selfish. After all, when Rick is screaming to give the ball to JO, *somebody* is giving it to Ron *who then holds it for too long*.

:whoknows:



Don't think anyone is doing that. I certainly am not.

-snip-



I'm just trying to make some sense out of Chad Ford's comment that "While both players still have been productive, the team wants more leadership at the point and a younger shooter at the two."







Tinsley just is not a vocal leader.

ChicagoJ
07-08-2004, 12:16 AM
You mean

"Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey!"

Doesn't count?

If I can hear him in Section222, he has to be somewhat vocal.

:D :devil: :p

SoupIsGood
07-08-2004, 12:18 AM
I'm fine with Tinsley/Harrington/Pollard for Terry/Jackson, however, it would REALLY be nice if we could snag a future draft pick out of the deal, and if we get really lucky, maybe we get to draft Greg Oden. I'll take that 2% chance.

But, the Pacers seem to always pull of a trade no ones expected, so I'm still holding out for a trade that lands us pierce.

75Ranger
07-08-2004, 12:23 AM
I think that Terry-Jackson for Tinsley-Harrington-Pollard would help us alot.

We add more scoring and defense to the backcourt.

Also, say we were to just sign Jackson, who would we get for Harrington that is useful?

Part of the reason why I am for this deal, if all of this is true.

Potentially this move could improve our defense. Jackson and Harrington is a wash. Both are very good defenders.The wild card is Terry. He has all the potential to become an excellent on the ball defender but he hasn't done it yet in the NBA.

I don't know who we could get for Al, and I think straight up for Terry is a fair deal however I think we are overpaying if were giving up Tinsley and Im not even a Tinsley fan.

Im also worried about overpaying for Jackson.Im assuming if there is a sign and trade involving Jackson its because hes commanding Q.Richardson or Manu Ginobli. If hes not available for the MLE I don't think we should get him.

Also doing this trade we still need to add a C unless you want to count on a rookie to play big minutes. Its going to be hard to aquire a center without Al as your bait and a backup pg.

themachotaco
07-08-2004, 12:24 AM
Also, say we were to just sign Jackson, who would we get for Harrington that is useful?


Harrington.

If we are able to just outright sign our SG, do we necessarily have to trade our 6th man and capable PF/SF just because? Our second biggest need is C, and it is unlikely that we'll be able to get a real quality C out of a Harrington trade (in a C-deprived league, who's going to trade their C for a smaller PF/SF tweener?).

bulletproof
07-08-2004, 12:28 AM
Chauncy also was picked 3rd in the draft. There is a big difference between the two's projected ablilities.

The numbers don't lie:

Terry
2003...37.3 min...16.8 ppg...41.7 FG%...34.7 3P%...82.7 FT%...5.4 apg...2.8 TOs

Billups
2003...35.4 min...16.9 ppg...39.4 FG%...38.8 3P%...87.8 FT%...5.7 apg...2.4 TOs

Young
07-08-2004, 12:30 AM
Also, say we were to just sign Jackson, who would we get for Harrington that is useful?


Harrington.

If we are able to just outright sign our SG, do we necessarily have to trade our 6th man and capable PF/SF just because? Our second biggest need is C, and it is unlikely that we'll be able to get a real quality C out of a Harrington trade (in a C-deprived league, who's going to trade their C for a smaller PF/SF tweener?).


We don't have to but he wants traded and Bird said he would try to get it done.

I don't see why, he had the second biggest role on this team, a team which won 61 games but if he wants traded I really don't want him here if he will be unhappy.

MagicRat
07-08-2004, 12:33 AM
I wonder if Tinsley is getting blamed for being unable to control the offense on the court during the periods when we're all (okay, many of us) mad at Ron for playing selfish. After all, when Rick is screaming to give the ball to JO, *somebody* is giving it to Ron *who then holds it for too long*.

:whoknows:



Don't think anyone is doing that. I certainly am not.

-snip-



I'm just trying to make some sense out of Chad Ford's comment that "While both players still have been productive, the team wants more leadership at the point and a younger shooter at the two."







Tinsley just is not a vocal leader.




I want to say the same thing about Artest, and he's a team captain....

Young
07-08-2004, 12:40 AM
But Artet isn't the coach on the court which Tinsley is playing point guard.

Young
07-08-2004, 01:01 AM
INTERESTING NEWS: Hawksquak is saying that Jason Terry has to agree to a trade before he is traded.

Don't know if this is true but I thought it was interesting.

MagicRat
07-08-2004, 01:04 AM
But Artet isn't the coach on the court which Tinsley is playing point guard.

But if 3 of the other 4 guys on the court with him are team captains, how much leading should he have to do, for pete's sake?

MSA2CF
07-08-2004, 01:14 AM
Until it's in the Star, I'm not believing any trade and/or signing.

tora tora
07-08-2004, 01:38 AM
Terry is a scorer, not a point guard... if the Pacers trade Tinsley then they can kiss their chances of a championship goodbye.

able
07-08-2004, 04:53 AM
I kindly but firmly disagree with most of the statements that we would improve in this "proposed" trade.

How good the source is will be found out, but that is slightly less important, what is important is that we would NOT get better in this trade.

The only plus, and one which I am still not secure on, is that it seems we can keep Ron.

Terry's stats, as pointed out, are in 36 minutes the same or worse then Tins' in 24. those are hard numbers. Tins has more steals and blocks in that time to, so pls do not come and tell me he's a better defender.

As a PG he had no people to throw the ball to? nonsense. Atl has not always been so deprived as this (half) season, he just didn't deliver.

Tins on court vision is way better the Terry's his passing skills are better and he even is a better shooter, or at least becoming one.

Trading him would be a serious mistake, give the kid a few years more and he will be one of the best distributors in the league.

As for Jackson, I know sentiments take a ride when the name itself comes up, but this is not Jax, this is Steve Jackson, a guy who could not get a 2.8 mil a year contract on the Spurs who had the caproom and his rights, this is a guy who went to play for Atl. as the only team that would take him for a few dimes.now we are considering giving him 5 mil a year?????

Damn better go after Turk then, same price, better player.
To give up Al AND Tins for nothing in return is outright stupid.
Terry doesn't have to urn our love, he will be our next eye sore and we will be screaming for the return of Tins.
I also think after the warrior mentality Tins showed in the playoffs we would owe him a lot more then just a trade.
The only reason I can think of (to do this trade) is that we will not have enough money to re-sign him next year, and with the way he improved this year and most likely will do again the coming year, that is a very big possibility, but then again we have to wonder whether we want to settle with Terry instead of running the trail.


I have no vote and yes I am a Tins supporter, simply because I think the kid has more upside then most out there, his passing skills and courtvision are out of this world, he's only been at the job for 3 years, and now is the time he becomes a man, PG's take time, Terry had those two extra years, only to show less then Tins in a lot more time.

Tins only shot when told, or in time trouble. Terry shoots when he pleases (he takes a lot more shots then Tins) and to think he will simply fit because Rick canmake him fit is nonsense, again, even Pop gave up on him for a lot more reasonable money then we are supposedly gonna pay him now.

Damp being unavailable to us is music to my ears on the other hand :D

I still think and hope it's a smokescreen :D

ok I pray it is, i'll admit, I foresee 10 less wins and no ECF with that backcourt.

The more I look at the market the more convinced I become that when we are keeping JB anyway, we might as well only trade Al for something shooting, and I'm sure J-Rich can be had for Al, and go for it this season, we have another big body to fill in behind jeff, Freddie is coming into his stride, if Bender can start hitting some shots, we're ok from the outside and that would improve our inside to.

Finetuning does not mean new cylinders and camshafts.

able
07-08-2004, 05:11 AM
Chauncy also was picked 3rd in the draft. There is a big difference between the two's projected ablilities.

The numbers don't lie:

Terry
2003...37.3 min...16.8 ppg...41.7 FG%...34.7 3P%...82.7 FT%...5.4 apg...2.8 TOs

Billups
2003...35.4 min...16.9 ppg...39.4 FG%...38.8 3P%...87.8 FT%...5.7 apg...2.4 TOs





<shakes head> number manipulation is not a good thing, which is besides the fact we do not get Billups.
(Btw; afterthought, where was Billups against the Pacers?)

anyway let's add the stats that "count", Tins'

2003...26.5 min....8.3 ppg...41.4 FG%...37.2 3P%...73.1 FT%...5.8 apg...2.1 TOs

so in less time better stats, but let's take the "shooting stats" in perspective:

terry: 499-1,196
tins: 153-370

and add "defense stats" :

Terry: st 1.53 bl 0.20
Tins : st 1.62 bl 0.33

Please also add into the equasion that Tins played a number of "fluff" games (few minutes, non-interested, hurt) that brought DOWN his stats.

Now PLEASE tell me where we are improving??????

Terry's numbers have only gone down since he entered the league, Tins only up.

<shakes head again, while hoping P management has more brains then this>

Will Galen
07-08-2004, 06:00 AM
I still think and hope it's a smokescreen :D

Smokescreen? I'm not singling you out Able, I just keep reading smokescreen from a lot of people and I don't get it. I can understand the use of smokescreens for the college draft because someone can trade above you, but now?

Why would the Pacer's have to put out smokescreens in what amounts to a bidding war? For one, the Internet does a great job of that.

Smokescreens are to hide your intent, but everyone knows what everyone else is after.

Then on second thought, you could use a smokescreen to run up the price a rival has to pay for a free agent.

bulletproof
07-08-2004, 06:44 AM
Chauncy also was picked 3rd in the draft. There is a big difference between the two's projected ablilities.

The numbers don't lie:

Terry
2003...37.3 min...16.8 ppg...41.7 FG%...34.7 3P%...82.7 FT%...5.4 apg...2.8 TOs

Billups
2003...35.4 min...16.9 ppg...39.4 FG%...38.8 3P%...87.8 FT%...5.7 apg...2.4 TOs





<shakes head> number manipulation is not a good thing, which is besides the fact we do not get Billups.
(Btw; afterthought, where was Billups against the Pacers?)

anyway let's add the stats that count, Tins'

2003...26.5 min....8.3 ppg...41.4 FG%...37.2 3P%...73.1 FT%...5.8 apg...2.1 TOs

so in less time better stats, but let's take the shooting stats in perspective:

terry: 499-1,196
tins: 153-370

and add defense stats:

Terry: st 1.53 bl 0.20
Tins : st 1.62 bl 0.33

Please also add into the equasion that Tins played a number of &amp;amp;quot;fluff&amp;amp;quot; games (few minutes, non-interested, hurt) that brought DOWN his stats.

Now PLEASE tell me where we are improving??????

Terry's numbers have only gone down since he entered the league, Tins only up.

Where do you get "less time, better stats?" I see double the scoring on Terry's part, better FT%, equal FG%, and a slight percentage dip from behind the arc. Everything else is pretty much equal. Also, I see a guy who can play 35+ minutes a game and not succumb to injuries as Tins did with considerably less playing time. And with all due respect able, have you actually seen Terry play?

I'm not advocating trading Tinsley, by any means, but if you look at the numbers and haven't seen Terry play, I don't see how you can give a fair analysis here.

able
07-08-2004, 07:24 AM
yes I have seen him play, strangely enough we did get those kind of games, where i ofcourse was awaiting other onees :)


but less time, more assist, lower turnover, more steals and more blocks equal to better FG % and the only reason he has less points is he took a lot less shots.

over all his stats are better in 26 min avg (and he played more and more towards the end) then terry on 35 min

Injury prone JB might be, but Tins was not exactly injury prone over the time we had him, granted he did get injured at the wrong time, but that was not his choice.


So I still don't see where we are improving on this, infact add Al into the trade and Jackson and I see where we lose a reasonable bit.

able
07-08-2004, 07:36 AM
I still think and hope it's a smokescreen :D

Smokescreen? I'm not singling you out Able, I just keep reading smokescreen from a lot of people and I don't get it. I can understand the use of smokescreens for the college draft because someone can trade above you, but now?

Why would the Pacer's have to put out smokescreens in what amounts to a bidding war? For one, the Internet does a great job of that.

Smokescreens are to hide your intent, but everyone knows what everyone else is after.

Then on second thought, you could use a smokescreen to run up the price a rival has to pay for a free agent.





How many times in the past were rumours like this fed, straight into the press even, announcing likely trades, reached agreements changed at the "last" minute, others paying ridiculous prices to make sure what they got, while we got what they seemingly were after the whole time, something completely different.

It comes over as somewhat strange and inconsequent for LB to first pronounce his love for Tins, then to state he grew over the season, and then finally to go trading him. certainly for someone who is a maybe improvement, maybe downgrade, time will tell but you normally don't take risks like that if you have something good, growing and where you have faith in, I personally do not rate Terry as a major improvement that makes it worth your while to get rid of Tins. Kid would be as an extreme example.

Harddrive7
07-08-2004, 08:09 AM
Guys, this hasn't even hit the press. This is all from some guy on the IS board. It seems that DW & LB would let this be leaked to a little higher of a source for it to be considered a smokescreen.

naptownmenace
07-08-2004, 08:57 AM
One element this potential deal would add that I don't think has been mentioned yet is the competitiveness, attitude, and leadership those players bring in place of Harrington and Tinsley. I'm not sure Harrington has the focus or basketball IQ (at least yet) to excel at the higher level we need, and Tinsley doesn't seem to have the leadership skills and passion at times needed as well. I think those are things Bird and Walsh are looking for...


I think that could be a factor. My thoughts on Al is that he is at times a lockerroom distraction or malcontent. Maybe he stirs the pot a bit too much. :shrug:

I don't know why people consider Jason Terry a risk. He's much better than Tinsley. He's a lot like Dewayne Wade in that he can run the offense, is athletic, and can dribble penetrate you to death. Plus, Terry can hit the perimeter shot. As far as his distribution is concerned, he's much better than some of you realize:

Assist Average the past 2 seasons: 6.4 per game

Compare that to Tinsley:
Assist Average the past two seasons: 6.7

Not a noticeable drop off. Pretty good considering Terry didn't have very many options to throw it to last year, basically S-Jackson and Abdur-Rahim for half a season. The year before when they had Big Dog Glen Robinson, Terry averaged 7.4 assists.

Actually, when you compare their stats from last year, the only thing that is substantially different is their FT shooting (82 for Terry, 73 for Tinsley) and points per game (16.8 versus 8.2). The defense should be about the same but Terry has more quickness.

A good trade IMO. At this point, I'd argue that Stephen Jackson is equal to Al Harrington's impact as well - just from a different position.

75Ranger
07-08-2004, 09:07 AM
yes I have seen him play, strangely enough we did get those kind of games, where i ofcourse was awaiting other onees :)


but less time, more assist, lower turnover, more steals and more blocks equal to better FG % and the only reason he has less points is he took a lot less shots.

over all his stats are better in 26 min avg (and he played more and more towards the end) then terry on 35 min

Injury prone JB might be, but Tins was not exactly injury prone over the time we had him, granted he did get injured at the wrong time, but that was not his choice.


So I still don't see where we are improving on this, infact add Al into the trade and Jackson and I see where we lose a reasonable bit.



You have to take into account that Terry was there first option on the offensive end which means teams would put out a gameplan to contain him. He doesn't get the wide open looks that Tinsley gets.

There is no comparison, Terry is a better player on the offensive end. Hes quick, he gets into the lane, has good range and will knock down open shots. Hes just doesn't have great vision on the court and not a great passer for a pg. However many of todays stars at pg play a very similar style to Terry , and Detroit proved that you can win a title with a scoring pg.

Ideally I would trade Pollard and Harrington for Terry and sign Steven Jackson to the MLE. Tinsley would start and Terry will come off the bench and play alot of combo guard for us.

MagicRat
07-08-2004, 09:15 AM
The Pacers were 37-10 (.787) when Jamaal played 20 or more minutes last season. Let's see Jason Terry match that.......

Ragnar
07-08-2004, 09:21 AM
I hate this trade. I hate this deal so much it makes me want to :puke: (note to Hicks is there any way we can get a puking bannana that would be really cool)

Terry is not the pg this team needs. I cant believe they would dump JT its almost like they got to close to an actuall championship so they need to get worse.

Face it we were closer this year than we were in 00. All we need to do is add a 15ppg sg and we are there. So sign S. Jackson for the mid level and give Utah or the Hawks or whoever has cap room left when the season starts give them Pollard and our next couple of draft picks to take him off our hands.

Harddrive7
07-08-2004, 09:31 AM
See, IMO, Terry is a better FIT for this particular team. We don't need a pg with great court vision. Terry I think just simply brings more to THIS team than what Tins does, and with the addition of Jackson?

This is a solid team. I think this makes us better.

Slick Pinkham
07-08-2004, 09:31 AM
If the motivation is to have a steady veteran presence at PG, this makes no sense.

Terry is 6 months older than Jamaal and is far less or a pure point guard and distributor, despite his statistics. He is also someone who excels in the open court, even moreso than Jamaal, and seems less of a fit for a Rick Carlisle half-court-set offense.

I'm not sure of Terry's current commitment to defense or potential in that regard. He is quicker, for sure.

I like his ability, but don't want this trade. I'd like Jackson as a FA signing.

J-Wont
07-08-2004, 09:39 AM
I don't see how adding Terry & Jackson and giving up Al+Pollard+Tins helps us.
The reason a shoot first/pass second point guard like Billups works in Detroit is the Pistons lack of offense. They need him to be their #2 scorer as much as they need him to distribute the ball. The Pacers were somewhat like that this past year (not as bad) and I think then a better scorer like Terry would've helped us a lot. However if we can get Jackson we don't need scoring, we need distribution, and I don't see any readily available points who can give us distribution like Tins. Especially at his price.
Now as for the stats thing, I believe he was referring to per-48 minutes. Sure Terry has better stats than Tins, but he plays signifigantly more minutes on a bad team. Here are each players stats per-48:
http://img74.photobucket.com/albums/v224/artestaholic/terry.gif
http://img74.photobucket.com/albums/v224/artestaholic/tinsley.gif

Harddrive7
07-08-2004, 09:42 AM
I hate this trade. I hate this deal so much it makes me want to :puke: (note to Hicks is there any way we can get a puking bannana that would be really cool)

Terry is not the pg this team needs. I cant believe they would dump JT its almost like they got to close to an actuall championship so they need to get worse.

Face it we were closer this year than we were in 00. All we need to do is add a 15ppg sg and we are there. So sign S. Jackson for the mid level and give Utah or the Hawks or whoever has cap room left when the season starts give them Pollard and our next couple of draft picks to take him off our hands.

What about Al? Do you want to have a disgruntled 6th man coming off the bench? Possibly bring lockerroom morale down?

able
07-08-2004, 09:45 AM
Teams who have combo guards running the point do so for a lack of pure pointguards in the league, not out of gameplan considerations, it is nice, but definitely not a must.
Yes Billups worked against most of the teams in the playoffs, but not against the Pacers.

I see the need for a shooter, but let's take a shooter at a position that was meant for it; SG
let the PG do the PG work,

Suaveness
07-08-2004, 10:05 AM
Exactly able. Listen, we cannot have everyone on the offensive side of teh ball always want to shoot. There have to be role players to do specific things, like Foster rebounding and Tinsley passing. And when the time comes, they should hit their open shots, but we don't need scoring from them. We need it from the other 3 positions, and last year we only got that out of 2 of the 3. SG is what is needed.

Look at teh Lakers teams before. They had 2 great players and several role players. They were successful. Look at the Bulls. 1 great player and several roles.

When you look at our team, we have 2 really good players in Ron and JO. They should carry the load of offense. We need a SG to complement them. And our PG should be there to hit the open shots when they come. We don't need a PG that needs to shoot all the time. Tinsley's ball distribution is critical to this team, because most of the players cannot do this. You have seen what happens when AJ gets into the game. It staggers, even if Ron and JO are in tehre. Therefore, it is critical to have JT's passmaking abilities.

JT is very similar to Kidd. Both can pass the ball very well and have great vision and both are mediocre shooters. JK used to be worse, but he has improved a lot since he has been in the league. And they same goes with Tinsley. His shooting has gotten much better, along with his penetration and his newly found floater. And his 3pt shooting is definitely better. And I have no doubt that he cannot improve. What more do you need from your PG? Tinsley in my opinion is perfect for this team.

Unclebuck
07-08-2004, 10:38 AM
I am still very torn about this, the anti-Terry forces are making some great points. But it would be nice to have a point guard who is a better shooter and a better scorer and a better defender. And I think Terry is a little better in each of those categories than Tinsley. But Terry is no where near the passer that Tinsley is.

As always it comes down to defense with me. I think Terry has more quickness than Tinsley, and will be a slightly better defender. But Terry is very slight so he won't ever be better than average defender, even with great coaching and a great defensive system. So there is not much of a net gain defensively.

I still don't know who I would rather have Terry or Tinsley.

Kegboy
07-08-2004, 11:06 AM
I know one thing if I liked Tinsley as much as many of you do, then I would be screaming bloody murder right now.

Bloody murder!! BLOODY MURDER!!!!!!!!!

:maniac:

Okay, now that that's out of the way...

Plain and simple, I feel that the primary role of the point guard is to put other people in a position to score, not score himself (i.e. "pass-first" vs. "shoot-first").

Besides that, I defer to everything able has so ably argued. (pun unintended)
---
I like shooting guards that can shoot.
:duel:

Kegboy
07-08-2004, 11:11 AM
double post

bulletproof
07-08-2004, 11:24 AM
I don't know.

bulletproof
07-08-2004, 11:24 AM
I don't know.

MSA2CF
07-08-2004, 11:35 AM
Plain and simple, I feel that the primary role of the point guard is to put other people in a position to score, not score himself (i.e. "pass-first" vs. "shoot-first")

I totally agree. That's what almost all the great point guards in the game do/have done. Another one of the reasons I'm a Tinsley advocate.

Hicks
07-08-2004, 11:39 AM
I'm going to hold off any further pro-Terry arguing until after I'm more certain this is true. Don't want to get TOO far with this until then. I'll let you know.

Kegboy
07-08-2004, 11:55 AM
I like point guards that can point.


Nice.

Personally, I'm waiting for I like small forwards that are small. :D
---
I like shooting guards that can shoot.
:duel:

MSA2CF
07-08-2004, 11:59 AM
I like point guards that can point.

Personally, I'm waiting for I like small forwards that are small. :D
---
I like shooting guards that can shoot.
:duel:

What have I done? :uhoh:

Hicks
07-08-2004, 12:35 PM
Uh, now Atlanta fans are hearing this trade rumor, and it doesn't look like they read it here or on IS:

http://www.hawksquawk.net/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=55955&page=0&view=expanded&sb=5&o=&fpart=1#55955



Of course you know, nothing will come out about this on the Hawks side. This is information that might be coming out of the other potential trading partner. I've gotten word from a couple of Indianapolis Sports Writers that the Pacers and the Hawks could be discussing a deal. The principle players in the deal are possibly:

Indiana Gets -- Jason Terry and a signed Stephen Jackson
Atlanta Gets -- Al Harrington, Jamaal Tinsley, and Scott Pollard

These guys tell me that Indiana would really like to get Jason Terry, and that the only thing that held up a Jason Terry for Al Harrington trade at the deadline was Terry's BYC status.

SpADeD
07-08-2004, 12:40 PM
What I would really like is for us to sign Stephen Jackson and trade Harrington for Terry (doubt this will happen). That way we can still have JT as our starting point guard, and Terry would be our version of the un-injured Bobby Jackson. 6th Man of the Year Award.:cool:

Young
07-08-2004, 12:44 PM
This makes perfect sense that Bird/DW would not let this get to the press because they usually do things out of the ordinary or suprise people.

But message boards, we are not the media but I like think of message boards as the underground media.

And the discussion on who is better Terry-Tinsley is nice but who would fit the team better?

And I am not going to critisize if the deal is made because last time I did that was the draft when we got Harrison but after thinking about it I love the pick.

Young
07-08-2004, 12:54 PM
oops

able
07-08-2004, 01:02 PM
"These guys tell me that Indiana would really like to get Jason Terry, and that the only thing that held up a Jason Terry for Al Harrington trade at the deadline was Terry's BYC status."

and now you know that this is nonsense anyway :)

I remember what trade we almost made :)

Heck even DW admitted that one :D

Hicks
07-08-2004, 01:03 PM
able, it's not nonsense. I know from MY sources (and they are not ********) that Terry talks have happened before, and it usually was us wanting to swap Al for Terry.

Unclebuck
07-08-2004, 01:06 PM
If you read the whole thread is is amazing to me to read how many are excited about Pollard. Should we tell them that we were saying the same things 12 months ago about him.

The one comment about Pollard being a good center in the east had me laughing

able
07-08-2004, 01:09 PM
yes that i agree to, last summer, this year's trade deadline was when ron got injured, they were talking trading for big at that moment, not terry.

That was even confirmed in the press, so there's no argument there, just like it was confirmed last year that they tried to get terry and it didn't work out.

Things have changed you know over the last 12 months, our PG needs are not as they were.

But then again, Terry for Al is ok in my book, sign Jackson if you must, or take polly to trade for him, you just don't "throw" in your starting pointguard who has proven a point in the second half of the year.

Skaut_Ech
07-08-2004, 01:13 PM
Arghhh!!

Although I see where able and suaveness are coming from, I wonder how long a memory you posters have? Two of my favorite shoot first guards of all time are Isiah Thomas and Gus Williams.

Jason Terry can be in that mold.

I DON'T subscribe to the "a PG should distribute" theories. I believe a PG should disrupt the D, put them back on their heels, and a great way to do that is by being ultra quick and scoring. (Just like Isiah and Gus used to do.)

If the D is afraid from the point that the PG passes the half court mark that they might get scored on, you've already won half the battle, rather than the typical half court set where the D simply waits on the PG to dump it into the PF or C, so they can gang up on the Pf/C. (Sound familiar?):grumble:

GUs and Isiah were great at penetrating and breaking down the D. The other players were smart enough to position thmeselves to score, so when Isiah or Gus got stopped, Gus/Isiah had already drawn a double team and someone would be open. And what do Gus and Isiah have to show for their style of play? :champions:

The thought of an aggressive scorer (not a jump shooter. Any PG can jump shoot) like Terry with PG/SG skills possibly coming here gets me so excited that I hate to envision the possibility.

Tinsley is alright in my book, but Terry is a much more dynamic player.

Think of the style of play Gus and Isiah had. Look at our roster, then compare it to theirs: Sikma/DJ/FRed Brown/Silas or Dumars/Lambieer/Rodman/Sally, and I think you can draw some real parallels to how effective WE could be with a Jason Terry.

I like Jamaal, but I'm not anywhere neatr as big a fan of him as some of you seem to be. If by losing him, we gain Terry. Hell Yeah!! Let this trade happen!!:pray::bananadance::bananadance::shakehand s:

SkipperZ
07-08-2004, 01:17 PM
theres one problem with that assessment.... jason terry is not that good...

first terry was being compared to joe dumars, and now isiah thomas. thats a laugher. hes not half the players they were...

Ragnar
07-08-2004, 01:20 PM
I hate this trade. I hate this deal so much it makes me want to :puke: (note to Hicks is there any way we can get a puking bannana that would be really cool)

Terry is not the pg this team needs. I cant believe they would dump JT its almost like they got to close to an actuall championship so they need to get worse.

Face it we were closer this year than we were in 00. All we need to do is add a 15ppg sg and we are there. So sign S. Jackson for the mid level and give Utah or the Hawks or whoever has cap room left when the season starts give them Pollard and our next couple of draft picks to take him off our hands.

What about Al? Do you want to have a disgruntled 6th man coming off the bench? Possibly bring lockerroom morale down?




Trade Al for a project that could pan out like Kwame Brown.

Mourning
07-08-2004, 01:21 PM
I would prefer to keep Jamaal to, naturally, but I have enough faith in our management team to do the right thing here. I would support Jackson AND Terry coming here and IF the Hawks let it hinch on Tins than send him down there.

Regards,

Mourning:cool:

Skaut_Ech
07-08-2004, 01:22 PM
Hello??? McFly??:idea: Here's a thought. Maybe I wasn't comparing the actual players. Maybe I was using examples of two well known players to illustrate a style of play??:whoknows::uhoh::crazy:

Of course, Terry isn't a HOFer, but his game is frighteningly similar to Gus Williams and I remember what the Soncis did with Gu at the helm.

BillS
07-08-2004, 01:31 PM
I can't see giving up Tinsley for Terry, because it doesn't <b><i>add</i></b> anything, it only swaps something.

I could see Harrington/Pollard/S&T Brewer or Johnson if the money worked out (I didn't check) - that way Atlanta gets a PG to replace how they use Terry, and we can use Terry at SG and as backup PG.

I like Terry as backup PG a lot better than I like AJ.

Harddrive7
07-08-2004, 01:41 PM
Congratulations Hicks!! This is your biggest thread yet!!!! I think it was ages ago actually, but man. A lot of attention it's getting.

Suaveness
07-08-2004, 01:51 PM
I like point guards that can point.


Nice.

Personally, I'm waiting for I like small forwards that are small. :D
---
I like shooting guards that can shoot.
:duel:

Great, but I like power forwards that are powerful :D

Harddrive7
07-08-2004, 01:54 PM
I like point guards that can point.


Nice.

Personally, I'm waiting for I like small forwards that are small. :D


---
I like shooting guards that can shoot.
:duel:

Great, but I like power forwards that are powerful :D

That's fine, I like centers who are in the middle

MagicRat
07-08-2004, 01:59 PM
Reading the Hawks fans' excitement about getting a true PG and talking about Terry's ball handling and distribution deficiencies doesn't really help me like this deal any better.....:whoknows:




I like PFs who are big, mean MFs......

Suaveness
07-08-2004, 02:02 PM
I like PFs who are big, mean MFs......



**** yeah.

Young
07-08-2004, 02:38 PM
Something to keep in mind:

Tinsley is a passer-distibutor [Jason Kidd] and Terry is a shooter who can pass [Tony Parker]

We are not NJ, we do not rely on Tinsley to make others better.

We are more of San Antonio, a shooter like Terry is a better fit for our team. We are not a fast break team.

This is a reason why I like Terry for Indiana, I think he would fit our team better.

Slick Pinkham
07-08-2004, 02:38 PM
Skaut, I'm much too disturbed by your avatar to pay full attention to your posts(just kidding- nice to see you posting more!).

I'd just add that while Terry is a scoring PG, he always seems to be on the edge between being out of control and being in control.

I'd much prefer a SG and/or a C upgrade to a PG move that may benefit a LITTLE or may hurt you a little.

Kegboy
07-08-2004, 02:39 PM
Damn double post. :mad:

Kegboy
07-08-2004, 02:39 PM
As many have said, I'd have no problem with trading Al for Terry. He and Mel Mel complement each other well, as long as you don't want D from you point guard (sorry UB.)

Now, skipping the whole Isiah/Gus comparison, I want to go back to the whole Billups thing. I don't see Terry as a poor-man's Billups, but a poor-man's Steve Francis. :unimpressed:
---
I like shooting guards that can shoot.
:duel:

ChicagoJ
07-08-2004, 02:40 PM
All I can say is that I like coaches that can coach.

Kegboy
07-08-2004, 02:50 PM
Something to keep in mind:

Tinsley is a passer-distibutor [Jason Kidd] and Terry is a shooter who can pass [Tony Parker]

We are not NJ, we do not rely on Tinsley to make others better.

We are more of San Antonio, a shooter like Terry is a better fit for our team. We are not a fast break team.

This is a reason why I like Terry for Indiana, I think he would fit our team better.

True, our team can get by without Tinsley, but I think people tend to forget something. Think back to when Anderson was our point. Yeah, we won alot of games, but we had to rely almost solely on our defense to do so (the infamous Denver game, for instance.)

Once Tinsley took over and got acclimated, our offense was SO much better. Just look at the Detroit series. Our offense fell apart without Tinsley healthy. Sure, the Pistons's'es" D had alot to do with that, but I still feel we would have won if Jamaal hadn't gone down.

Think of it this way. Do you really want to be put in a position where Ron is the best passer we have? :blush:
---
I like shooting guards that can shoot.
:duel:

Hicks
07-08-2004, 02:53 PM
I think Terry's better than RON at passing. And you equate it to having Kenny at point. Terry's O >>> Kenny's O

Not to mention Kenny doesn't know what defense is, and Terry will at least be average, with a chance of being pretty darn good.

Natston
07-08-2004, 02:56 PM
All I can say is that I like coaches that can coach.

I like role players that are rolls... :drool:

MSA2CF
07-08-2004, 03:00 PM
Indiana Gets -- Jason Terry and a signed Stephen Jackson
Atlanta Gets -- Al Harrington, Jamaal Tinsley, and Scott Pollard

You can tell this deal is totally fictitious. There is no "Scott Pollard" on our team. :shakehead:

And why is it that every player I like gets hated on? First Mark...now Scot...who's next...

bulletproof
07-08-2004, 03:11 PM
I like centers who are centered. :meditate:

Slick Pinkham
07-08-2004, 03:17 PM
We all would like guards who can guard,

PacerMan
07-08-2004, 03:19 PM
See, IMO, Terry is a better FIT for this particular team. We don't need a pg with great court vision. Terry I think just simply brings more to THIS team than what Tins does, and with the addition of Jackson?

This is a solid team. I think this makes us better.

Sorry, but that's nutz if you think Terry is better than Tins. ON THIS TEAM!!:rolleyes:

Hicks
07-08-2004, 03:19 PM
I like towel boys--- I should stop now :blush:

:D :laugh:

ChicagoJ
07-08-2004, 03:21 PM
I like towel boys--- I should stop now :blush:

:D :laugh:


You'll note that I didn't say that I like Head coaches that can ...

:neutral:

Hicks
07-08-2004, 03:23 PM
I like towel boys--- I should stop now :blush:

:D :laugh:


You'll note that I didn't say that I like Head coaches that can ...

:neutral:


:lol2:

Mourning
07-08-2004, 03:32 PM
I like towel boys--- I should stop now :blush:

:D :laugh:


You'll note that I didn't say that I like Head coaches that can ...

:neutral:

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Kegboy
07-08-2004, 03:34 PM
Between all this and tom's avatar, I feel so dirty. :blush:
---
I like shooting guards that can shoot.
:duel:

Slick Pinkham
07-08-2004, 03:42 PM
If anyone finds my avatar offensive, I'll change it. I'll get bored with it soon anyway.

Slick Pinkham
07-08-2004, 03:58 PM
Jay, some may ponder "the head coach that can...",

I'd prefer to ponder the "head cheerleader that can...", or the head Pacemate.

there must be a head Pacemate.

PacerMan
07-08-2004, 04:18 PM
Between all this and tom's avatar, I feel so dirty. :blush:
---
I like shooting guards that can shoot.
:duel:


I married a head nurse. :D

Zesty
07-08-2004, 04:48 PM
:dance: Bop chicka wah wah :dance:

Suaveness
07-08-2004, 05:10 PM
I like towel boys--- I should stop now :blush:

:D :laugh:


You'll note that I didn't say that I like Head coaches that can ...

:neutral:

:rotflmao:

OMG. That is HILARIOUS :laugh:

Ultimate Frisbee
07-08-2004, 05:44 PM
is there a record for longest thread?? Anyone know what it is?

SoupIsGood
07-08-2004, 06:11 PM
This thread is too damned long.

I like PR guys that get in Reggie's face. :dance:

MSA2CF
07-08-2004, 06:51 PM
I don't get it. :neutral:

Suaveness
07-08-2004, 07:02 PM
I don't get it. :neutral:

Get what?

MSA2CF
07-08-2004, 07:50 PM
I don't get it. :neutral:

Get what?

About the last 10 posts before mine.

JOneal7
07-08-2004, 07:54 PM
omg...Terry And Stephen Jackson would be killer!
Terrys Not a PG...He's a shooter...hed prolly be suited at SG...and Jackson at SF...Which makes no sense cause ron is a sf. I think Terry could play the PT well under rick tho. Hopefully.
This should be interesting tho :)
we need to get with it. Mad teams are upgrading except us right now.

MSA2CF
07-08-2004, 07:58 PM
Mad teams are upgrading except us right now.

Yeah, some of these teams offering huge contracts are mad. The Pacers aren't in a panic situation. If everyone was jumping off cliffs, would you? The Pacers don't necessarily need an upgrade.

Hicks
07-08-2004, 08:03 PM
The Pacers don't necessarily need an upgrade.

You mean we DID beat the Pistons this season? Did I miss the parade?

Kegboy
07-08-2004, 09:02 PM
The Pacers don't necessarily need an upgrade.

You mean we DID beat the Pistons this season? Did I miss the parade?

No, but we weren't necessarily healthy, either.


---
I like shooting guards that can shoot.
:duel:

JOneal7
07-08-2004, 09:05 PM
we need to up the sg spot. That's it i believe. But everyone will be gone by the time donnie comes around. :(

Will Galen
07-08-2004, 09:23 PM
Interesting blurb from insider today gives credence to Diamond Dave's rumor.


"They (The Hawks) claim they're on a budget and can't commit to large or long term contracts," one agent told Insider. Several other agents have reported the same thing. With no centers, no power forwards and no true point guard to speak of -- are the Hawks just gunning for the No. 1 pick in the draft next year?
-----

So what will they get if they trade Terry and a resigned Jackson to the Pacer's? A center in Pollard, a power forward in Harrington, and a true point guard in Tinsley.

Hmmm, I'm thinking this deal is more and more likely!

MSA2CF
07-08-2004, 09:25 PM
we need to up the sg spot. That's it i believe. But everyone will be gone by the time donnie comes around. :(

Need or want? It seems to me that the Pacers did pretty fine with the team they have now. [edited for unacceptable content] I'm beginning to believe that the Pacers don't need to make more than 3 more moves before next season begins. Let me tell you those three. One, sign Rashad Wright. Two, sign Anthony Johnson. Three, sign a relatively low-priced FA center. [edited for unacceptable content] No overhaul is needed for the Pacers. The team was two wins shy of being in the NBA Finals. Some players should be getting better, while all of them should be getting wiser. The coaches and the team system should be almost the exact same as last year. This team is pretty much set and I'm happy about it.

Before a CEO tells me I'm not Larry Bird or Donnie Walsh, I'll admit that I'm no basketball genius, like Tom Tolbert, Stephen A. Smith, Chad Ford, etc. For this moment in time, I think the Pacers would do just fine with the team they have, plus a few additions via free agency. And JOneal7, if this post came off as insultive to you, I apologize. It's hard to tell what emotions are through the internet. I'm not getting on you. This is just a post describing my feelings. No hard feelings. Thanks for reading my rant though.

Dr Huxtable
07-08-2004, 09:30 PM
I agree with Will 100%. :dance:

PacerMan
07-08-2004, 10:12 PM
:laugh::laugh:
Interesting blurb from insider today gives credence to Diamond Dave's rumor.


"They (The Hawks) claim they're on a budget and can't commit to large or long term contracts," one agent told Insider. Several other agents have reported the same thing. With no centers, no power forwards and no true point guard to speak of -- are the Hawks just gunning for the No. 1 pick in the draft next year?
-----

So what will they get if they trade Terry and a resigned Jackson to the Pacer's? A center in Pollard, a power forward in Harrington, and a true point guard in Tinsley.

Hmmm, I'm thinking this deal is more and more likely!



WANNA
BET
A
MILLION
BUCKS??


:laugh: :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Hicks
07-08-2004, 10:12 PM
Now there's this Dal/Atl trade on ESPN radio. If that's true, I'm stunned and disappointed. I really, really started to believe this was real, and since I was one who thought it was a very good thing, I'm ridiculously disappointed right now. :cry:

Will Galen
07-09-2004, 01:52 AM
Now there's this Dal/Atl trade on ESPN radio. If that's true, I'm stunned and disappointed. I really, really started to believe this was real, and since I was one who thought it was a very good thing, I'm ridiculously disappointed right now. :cry:

You posted that the ESPN rumor was false. I agreed with your reasoning.

The only way I can see the Mavs doing that deal is if they are panicking. Diamond Dave's rumor has more believability to it.

Hicks
07-09-2004, 01:53 AM
Yeah, I agree with you Will. I posted that just after I read the rumor, and now believe it's bogus. We still have a chance at Tins/Al/Pollard for Terry/Jackson. :)

bulletproof
07-09-2004, 02:22 AM
Need or want? It seems to me that the Pacers did pretty fine with the team they have now. [edited for unacceptable content] I'm beginning to believe that the Pacers don't need to make more than 3 more moves before next season begins. Let me tell you those three. One, sign Rashad Wright. Two, sign Anthony Johnson. Three, sign a relatively low-priced FA center. [edited for unacceptable content] No overhaul is needed for the Pacers. The team was two wins shy of being in the NBA Finals. Some players should be getting better, while all of them should be getting wiser. The coaches and the team system should be almost the exact same as last year. This team is pretty much set and I'm happy about it.

Did you see game 4 of the ECFs against the Pistons? We demolished them. Why? Because Cro was knocking down the long shot and drawing defenders out of the paint which allowed Ron and Al and JO to pound away on the inside. Our front court is fine. We need a serious outside threat, someone who can consistently put up 15-18 ppg.

Unclebuck
05-16-2006, 06:00 PM
Bump


I haven't read all this yet, but it seems like it will be fun


Well I just read this and Hicks was very strong in wanting Terry, I was somewhat wishy washy, but those who didn't want Terry will go nameless

It seems so obvious now, two years later. I just wonmder what will seem obvous two years from now that we just don't see right now

pizza guy
05-16-2006, 08:23 PM
I missed the date when I first looked at this and thought, "sweet, we're getting Jason Terry! How does that happen? And Jackson who? We've already got a Jackson...." Then I looked at the date and was crushed because I realized that we're not getting Terry, and we already have a Jackson....

Kegboy
05-16-2006, 08:58 PM
Ah yes, the infamous "point guards who can point" thread.

A good discussion on the role of a point guard. In retrospect, Terry has shown that he can play for a winner, and he's definitely Rick's kind of PG. But I still stand behind my Stevie Francis comparison. And I just don't like shoot-first PGs.

[edit] And pacertom should really change his avatar. That's disgusting.

rexnom
05-16-2006, 08:59 PM
I missed the date when I first looked at this and thought, "sweet, we're getting Jason Terry! How does that happen? And Jackson who? We've already got a Jackson...." Then I looked at the date and was crushed because I realized that we're not getting Terry, and we already have a Jackson....

Ditto...shame on you guys for breaking my heart like this!

Will Galen
05-17-2006, 05:57 AM
Ditto...shame on you guys for breaking my heart like this!


You guys? It was one guy that bumped the thread, Unclebuck. Blame him!

If you want to get even, vote for him and Peck in the 2006 PD Forum Awards -- Best Couple. The winners have to go out on a date and dress like the opposite sex.

Yeah it wouldn't be fair to Peck, and I'm usually all over something I perceive as unfair, but in this case, really who cares about being fair? That would make it even better!