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NapTonius Monk
06-04-2009, 07:25 PM
He could potentially be the tumbler this year. Do you like him if he drops to us? I hear people say that we need help this year, but I think his potential to be special is high.

billbradley
06-04-2009, 07:29 PM
assuming we didn't resign jack based on a jennings pick, i would have to make a decision on the selection after seeing what we did with "jack's money"

Young
06-04-2009, 07:42 PM
I'd pass on Jennings.

In terms of point guards I would rank him one of the lowest. Eric Manyor and Ty Lawson are better than Jennings IMO and both should be available when the Pacers pick if they choose to pick a point guard i'd go with Manyor or even Lawson before Jennings.

PR07
06-04-2009, 07:58 PM
I'd take a flyer on him because he has star potential. Plus, the Pacers have a situation where he could develop behind Ford and Jack, so it's not like we have to throw him in the fire if he's not ready.

Infinite MAN_force
06-04-2009, 08:40 PM
I'd pass on Jennings.

In terms of point guards I would rank him one of the lowest. Eric Manyor and Ty Lawson are better than Jennings IMO and both should be available when the Pacers pick if they choose to pick a point guard i'd go with Manyor or even Lawson before Jennings.

Seriously? What do you base that on? His euro stats?

Jennings is exactly the kind of player the pacers would be crazy not to take a chance on if he fell. A point guard with star potential, and a true point unlike Bayless last year.

SoupIsGood
06-04-2009, 08:41 PM
Why is he dropping?

d_c
06-04-2009, 08:46 PM
I thought this was an excellent analysis on Jennings from another Warrior fan from a different board.


I'm sure this has been posted before, but the link below points to 10 minutes of in-game "highlights" from Jennings' stint at Virtus. I like these videos because they focus on all of his relevant plays in these two games, not just the handful of dunks and dimes.

My impression of Jennings after watching these videos, along with a few minutes of clips from high school: very solid talent, quite a bit away. On the plus side, he's clearly a strong athlete even at the NBA level; with his quickness and handle it will be very difficult for defenders to stay in front of him. He's courageous and does a good job of drawing contact at the rim, and he looks to be a creative and willing passer. His skill level appears to be quite high, and he's able to dribble at full speed while surveying the court.

Unfortunately, the positives more or less end there. The first thing you notice about Jennings is that his shooting form is absolutely terrible, particularly off the dribble. Defenders are going to give him a lot of room, and it's going to work, because he's not ready to hit jumpshots in an NBA game right now. Moreover, his finishing ability looks pretty spotty - he's very aggressive and good at getting into the big man's body, but when he doesn't draw a foul he's not strong enough to finish right now. That will likely improve over time, however, given his natural athletic talent.

Jennings also struggles running the game as a point guard. Again, the pure skill is there, but he's clearly not seeing the game at the necessary speed right now, at least in the half-court. This appears to be true on both sides of the ball; he turns the ball over constantly on offense, while getting burned on the pick-and-roll over and over again on defense. None of this is surprising or insurmountable for a 19-year-old, but it seems unlikely that Jennings will be able to make a significant contribution on the NBA level for at least a full season.

With all that being said, I would still give Jennings a look at the #7 spot. In a draft short on elite talent, he has the athletic ability, skill level, and attitude to eventually become a star at maybe the most important position in the league. But the Warriors (and any other team considering drafting Jennings) need to make sure that he has the work ethic to continue improving his game over time, and that he is in a position to be able to do so without undue pressure from the coaching staff, front office, or fan base. Brandon Jennings is a project point guard in the truest sense of the word.

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=itgblog&view=videos&query=Brandon+Jennings

count55
06-04-2009, 08:58 PM
Why is he dropping?

He may or may not be dropping. I think he's suffering some backlash from skipping the Combine and the Euro thingie. Meanwhile, other players are getting exposure and playing well. It's still three weeks until the draft, so people are going to bounce up and down on the thinnest of rumors, or, more often, on some scout getting pissy about being stood up and badmouthing the guy.


He didn't do much in Italy, and a lot of the teams are disappointed with the individual/private workouts because they want to see more of him in 5-on-5 action.

It really depends on where guys like Jrue, Evans, and Flynn end up going. If they take the slots that would normally take a PG, then it could be a repeat of last year, where Westbrook skyrocketed, Gordon stayed constant, and Augustin got nabbed by Charlotte, leaving Bayless in a tumble.

purdue101
06-04-2009, 09:03 PM
Why is he dropping?

Not a ton of exposure. Teams quit seriously scouting high school after the "1 year college ball" rule took effect. Europe may have developed his game more so than college, but the exposure was horrible.

Anyways, I like the pick should he fall. I think UB posted this the other day and I tend to agree with him - you have to pick the player who you think has the most star potential. Sometimes you hit and sometimes you miss, but you have to have stars to win in this league. I would rather go for a home run with Jennings then draft a safe pick like Lawson.

I've watched some tape of Jennings and he is undoubtedly super talented (youtube his name). He reminds me a bit of Tony Parker with better one on one skills. His jump shot WAS horrible in high school, but I've read it's been corrected through a shooting coach in Italy. I've also read he's matured quite a bit too. I was impressed with his character in his combine interviews.

Jennings is definitely the goat who looks like he's gonna fall. I'm all for going after him. I think he could contribute next year should we trade TJ or let JJ walk.

idioteque
06-04-2009, 10:07 PM
I am a Jennings backer and I usually am not a fan of "potential" players. Jennings may or may not be a year away from really contributing, but he's the kind of guy I'm willing to take a chance on at 13. By most accounts he is willing to work hard and has a great attitude, and furthermore he played in Europe, which unlike college basketball, is a league of men and professionals. He learned his place on a real team in a professional setting rather than going to college and being fawned over as a big fish in what is relatively a small pond.

From the film I have seen on Jennings he is absolutely brilliant in transition and can see the game well at that speed. If he has that ability already at 19, I think he will grow into a good half-court set point guard which is what the Pacers need in the long run. His defensive awareness needs to improve but he has the size to guard players in the NBA and seems willing and able to improve.

I am sure as a pro his shooting will improve but having a point guard who is a primary option as an offensive threat is unimportant to me. I want someone who is adequate, of course, but I am more interested in having a distributor at the position.

I would be thrilled with Jennings at 13, even if he is not in our long term plans, you have to take him ala Bayless and trade him for more assets.

purdue101
06-04-2009, 10:30 PM
I am also extremely high on Tyreke Evans and Jrue Holiday. Like Jennings, these two have all star ceilings. The NBA is moving towards larger PG's (Rondo, Rose, Williams, Westbrook, etc) - these three fit that bill

I am cautiously optimistic Bird can walk away with one of those three at 13. If we could snuff out a gem PG in this draft, we would be a young PF away from having an absolutely dominanting young core at the 1 through 5. Outside of Griffin, I feel the PF's in this draft are only mediocre NBA players at best (Hill, Blair, Hansborough, etc), which is why I am leaning towards one of these three PG's.

Placebo
06-04-2009, 10:31 PM
I'm sorry guys, I just don't buy the "not enough exposure" argument... The guy played in euro friggin league, the most competitive basketball league outside the NBA. He went against some of the best point guards in the world. How is that "not enough 5 on 5 competitive action?" Those games are heavily scouted. Doesn't matter if Jennings is there or not, those games are being watched by NBA scouts because there are lot of European players drawing interest from NBA. Even a casual fan access euroleague games very easily.

There are a LOT of 5 on 5 meaningful, competitive footage of Jennings and the level of competition is sufficient enough to evaluate Jennings. Lack of interviews? Maybe. Lack of competitive action? No way.

purdue101
06-04-2009, 10:40 PM
I'm sorry guys, I just don't buy the "not enough exposure" argument... The guy played in euro friggin league, the most competitive basketball league outside the NBA. He went against some of the best point guards in the world. How is that "not enough 5 on 5 competitive action?" Those games are heavily scouted. Doesn't matter if Jennings is there or not, those games are being watched by NBA scouts because there are lot of European players drawing interest from NBA. Even a casual fan access euroleague games very easily.

There are a LOT of 5 on 5 meaningful, competitive footage of Jennings and the level of competition is sufficient enough to evaluate Jennings. Lack of interviews? Maybe. Lack of competitive action? No way.

Jennings biggest mistake was signing with a very competitive team. He rarely, if ever, started and some games was DNPCD. I know a lot of scouts were turned off b/c they truely didn't get to see him play at some games they scouted. Keep in mind, he played in the premier Italian league - one of those teams would wax the floor on any NCAA program.

I think he didn't get much "hype" either. If he played college ball at Arizona, not only would he have gotten much more PT, but his face would have been plastered on every television in March (ala Tyreke Evans). He's not a househould name, which unfortunately has an impact on his value.

count55
06-04-2009, 10:58 PM
I'm sorry guys, I just don't buy the "not enough exposure" argument... The guy played in euro friggin league, the most competitive basketball league outside the NBA. He went against some of the best point guards in the world. How is that "not enough 5 on 5 competitive action?" Those games are heavily scouted. Doesn't matter if Jennings is there or not, those games are being watched by NBA scouts because there are lot of European players drawing interest from NBA. Even a casual fan access euroleague games very easily.

There are a LOT of 5 on 5 meaningful, competitive footage of Jennings and the level of competition is sufficient enough to evaluate Jennings. Lack of interviews? Maybe. Lack of competitive action? No way.


Jennings biggest mistake was signing with a very competitive team. He rarely, if ever, started and some games was DNPCD. I know a lot of scouts were turned off b/c they truely didn't get to see him play at some games they scouted. Keep in mind, he played in the premier Italian league - one of those teams would wax the floor on any NCAA program.

I think he didn't get much "hype" either. If he played college ball at Arizona, not only would he have gotten much more PT, but his face would have been plastered on every television in March (ala Tyreke Evans). He's not a househould name, which unfortunately has an impact on his value.

Here are the comments from Givony...


here is a growing sense in NBA circles that Brandon Jennings may be making a mistake by passing up the Reebok Eurocamp in Treviso next week in favor of participating in private NBA workouts. Numerous teams in the lottery have pointed out to us that they do not feel comfortable with the amount of competitive five on five action they’ve seen Jennings partake in, and that they would have a difficult time selecting him based on the body of work he’s put together up until this point.

NBA teams were not allowed to scout Jennings in high school, and many saw their scouting trips to Italy this year come up empty as they only were able to see him play for a few minutes at a time, often at the shooting guard position.

The second paragraph supports p101's post.

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Word-on-the-Street-June-2nd-3241/

Placebo
06-04-2009, 11:22 PM
Jennings biggest mistake was signing with a very competitive team. He rarely, if ever, started and some games was DNPCD. I know a lot of scouts were turned off b/c they truely didn't get to see him play at some games they scouted. Keep in mind, he played in the premier Italian league - one of those teams would wax the floor on any NCAA program.

I think he didn't get much "hype" either. If he played college ball at Arizona, not only would he have gotten much more PT, but his face would have been plastered on every television in March (ala Tyreke Evans). He's not a househould name, which unfortunately has an impact on his value.

I agree that he didn't get much hype but I don't think hype matters much. Oviously some teams like Bucks gets carried away with hype and drafts players like Joe Alexander. Jennings may be slipping in mocks because a lot of times people rely on the hype surrounding a player when they're making a mock draft. I don't think GM's spend much time reading mock drafts and I don't think he is necessarily slipping in GM's draft boards. Maybe he was never too high to begin with... Maybe they don't see him as the guy leading their team to a championship level... Maybe they are having hard time seeing him as the guy telling other players what to do...

You're right, the Italian League is one of the best domestic leagues in the world. (I lived in Europe for almost 25 years and I am familiar with the leagues in Europe) But here's the thing. He WAS getting decent minutes for a 19 year-old. Euroleague teams are using very deep rotations (10-12 players) and Jennings' ~20 minutes per game is not bad at all considering the fact that games are 40 minutes instead of 48.

Now he is getting bashed by mainstream college basketball preachers. I don't think it's fair criticism because Jennings has developed as a player against the tougher professional competition of the Euroleague. There are lot of media people romanticizing the college basketball. (Can't blame them cause that's what they do, right?) It's not Jennings' fault at all.

@Count55

Thanks for the link. I like Givonys' draft coverage and reports but this is obviously Givony's own opinion and it's very subjective. If it is accurate it is even more sad for the NBA cause there is PLENTY of Jennings footage going 5 on 5 against top competition. He is a LOT easier to evaluate comparing to some college players. I mean seriously... There is a Euroleague product out there just like the NBA broadband. Anybody can get it and watch his games against Spanoulises and Prigionis of the world.

OakMoses
06-04-2009, 11:35 PM
The second paragraph supports p101's post.

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Word-on-the-Street-June-2nd-3241/

That 2nd paragraph is the most overlooked thing about Jennings at this point. There are certain players, and I'm sure Jennings is one of them, who have never played off the ball and have no idea how to do it. Jrue Holiday struggled at UCLA because they forced him to play off the ball. Tyreke Evans struggled at Memphis until they moved him to PG.

Think about it, you take an 18 year old, move him to a foreign country, ask him to play against vastly superior competition than he's ever seen, and then ask him to play a new position which totally accentuates his weaknesses and minimizes his strengths. Do you actually expect him to play well in that situation?

ESutt7
06-04-2009, 11:57 PM
I think his star potential is pretty big. He's highly entertaining to watch from the few games I've seen. But if there's any question of work ethic/attitude or how committed he'd be to the team I think you'd have to pass if you're the Pacers. The Twitter stuff was discouraging. There's no doubt that he has a very high ceiling though.

CableKC
06-05-2009, 01:07 AM
My first thoughts when I started reading that Jennings was starting to drop in some Mock Drafts was that we were looking at another "Granger" falling to us. But as I thought about it....I thought to myself that I have to be fair when it comes to forming any opinion on Jennings....just like I did with Earl Clark ( who I would prefer not to draft ).

Defense
What has been pointed out several times is a need for players that improve our defense....or at the very least....not be defensive liabilities. How is Jennings' defense at the PG spot?

NBA-Ready
We all know that we need an immediate infusion of talent that can essentially "hit the ground running" so that he can contribute as soon as possible. Is Jennings considered NBA-Ready?

The above 2 questions ( along with being BPA and filling a need ), I feel, are important in who we draft with the 13th spot.

From what I have read about Jennings so far, my initial impression is that he's not NBA-Ready and still has many flaws in his game ( defense and shooting ) that needs to be improved before he can truly be effective in the lineup.....in essense a "solid prospect but a project for the next 2 seasons".

Someone is going to have to convince me that he's the type of player that TPTB would draft, for now....I see a PG with Potential but still has some things to learn. My initial thought is to pass on him ( unless we acquire another 1st rounder to get another NBA-Ready player that can contribute....like Henderson/TWill/Pendergraph ).

AesopRockOn
06-05-2009, 01:41 AM
If he drops, you take him. Same with Jrue.

d_c
06-05-2009, 01:47 AM
If he drops, you take him. Same with Jrue.

You have to strongly consider taking Jennings at #13 if there. It's a crap draft anyways so you may as well take the best available talent. He's good value.

People get a little over fixated on players' flaws this far into a weak draft. Whoever you take is going to have some kind of blemish in one way or another.

Jennings gives you value added to the roster, if nothing else. If he shows flashes, then at worst you've got a valuable piece to bargain with in trade (though most likely you'd just keep him for yourself in such a case).

MillerTime
06-05-2009, 03:06 AM
DraftExpress has Jennings falling all the way to #13 (and us picking him). I wouldnt mind him, he would be a good pick at #13. Hes a really good passer and a true PG, but his defense isnt that great. He is a good at playing the passing lanes though.

Overall, I would be happy for pick him at #13

count55
06-05-2009, 08:06 AM
That 2nd paragraph is the most overlooked thing about Jennings at this point. There are certain players, and I'm sure Jennings is one of them, who have never played off the ball and have no idea how to do it. Jrue Holiday struggled at UCLA because they forced him to play off the ball. Tyreke Evans struggled at Memphis until they moved him to PG.

Think about it, you take an 18 year old, move him to a foreign country, ask him to play against vastly superior competition than he's ever seen, and then ask him to play a new position which totally accentuates his weaknesses and minimizes his strengths. Do you actually expect him to play well in that situation?

I think that was the complaint...not that he's bad, it's that they haven't had a chance to see him used the way they would hope to use him.

I'd be fine with taking Jennings at #13. Sometimes players drop for stupid reasons.

Major Cold
06-05-2009, 08:12 AM
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I just remember the McDonald's All-star game last year. He is so quick and has crazy handles. He may need refinement, but 5 years down the road he might be one of the best players in this draft. He shoots very well off the dribble it seems. Better than Rubio and Holiday.

Pacers
06-05-2009, 08:56 AM
At 13, I wouldn't have a problem with him. I wouldn't really be too interested in the Top 8ish.

MyFavMartin
06-05-2009, 09:02 AM
Saw him on some high school all star games. Is clearly very talented, lots of flash to his game, makes some risky passes that when they go through, make for some spectacular plays.

Seems that a large media market would love him. Might a team want to trade up for him?

Jonathan
06-05-2009, 09:24 AM
Cable KC

You bring up the point of NBA Ready. What is your defination of NBA Ready?
The term has changed very much with the infusion of 18-20 year old kids entering the draft some are stars (Kobe, Lebron, KG) but you also have your busts. I do not know where Jennings falls into place but two years ago Flip Murray helped our team with his scoring and we might be losing Q6 so the Pacers need a guy to beat the opposotion off the dribble and create his own shot. Jennings is quick enough to get up and down the floor in transition but how is defense and jumper? Only time will tell.

OakMoses
06-05-2009, 10:08 AM
Can we really have a Brandon Jennings thread without mentioning that, with he and Rush, we'd have by far the best flattop tandem in the NBA.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ofP_2-JG6zY/SQCP0D9PkfI/AAAAAAAAACA/773fbNIf36Y/s320/brandon_jennings_high_top.jpg

http://www.brandonrush.org/images/brandon-rush-pictures%20(5).jpg

DrFife
06-05-2009, 10:56 AM
Saw him on some high school all star games. Is clearly very talented, lots of flash to his game, makes some risky passes that when they go through, make for some spectacular plays.

Seems that a large media market would love him. Might a team want to trade up for him?

To me this would be an ideal scenario: Bayless pick-swap, 2.0.

OakMoses
06-05-2009, 11:10 AM
To me this would be an ideal scenario: Bayless pick-swap, 2.0.

If we could trade back to grab a guy like T-Williams and grab a Jack-quality PF/C in the process...

Of course, I'd be fine with keeping Jennings also, just like I would have been fine with keeping Bayless last year even though I really liked the trade.

count55
06-05-2009, 11:16 AM
a Jack-quality PF/C in the process...

Help me out...

OakMoses
06-05-2009, 11:27 AM
Help me out...

If only I had my own little "That's what she said!" picture...

A PF/C who's talent level is on par with Jarret Jack's.

CableKC
06-05-2009, 01:37 PM
Cable KC

You bring up the point of NBA Ready. What is your defination of NBA Ready?
The term has changed very much with the infusion of 18-20 year old kids entering the draft some are stars (Kobe, Lebron, KG) but you also have your busts.
IMHO.....NBA Ready is whatever quality/experience/seasoning that BRush and Hibbert already had when entering the draft that allowed them to earn ( at worst ) a rotational spot in JO'Bs rotation by the end of their 1st season.

I admit that part of it was due to ( IMHO fortunate ) circumstances ( injuries to Marquis and Dunleavy that paved the way for BRush to get more minutes and the overall slowness along with "wear and tear" for Rasho that opened up minutes for Roy ), but my guess is that another part of it is because they were skilled enough and had enough experience/know-how to "hit the ground running" by quickly learning from their mistake. IMHO...because of this, BRush and Hibbert were able to crack the rotation and get consistent minutes before the end of the season.


I do not know where Jennings falls into place but two years ago Flip Murray helped our team with his scoring and we might be losing Q6 so the Pacers need a guy to beat the opposotion off the dribble and create his own shot. Jennings is quick enough to get up and down the floor in transition but how is defense and jumper? Only time will tell.
I'm guessing that we do need a guy that can "beat the opposition off the dribble and create his own shot", but that is a seperate issue then why I think that we would want an NBA-Ready player.

I just think that there are 2 goals that TPTB want to accomplish over the next 2-3 seasons......make a return to the Playoffs ( which means getting Players through the Draft, FA or Trade that can help us immediately ) while continuing to build for the future. The question is which goal takes precedent in the immediate future. My guess is that returning to the Playoffs is the primary focus. If TPTB think very highly of Jennings and he drops to the 13th spot....then I would have no problem drafting him ( again, assuming that we acquire another pick to draft another NBA-Ready Player ).

ESutt7
06-05-2009, 03:09 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/scott_howard-cooper/06/05/stoudemire.notes/index.html?eref=sihp

What's the word on Brandon Jennings' game? Strengths? Weaknesses? It's not like we were able to watch him play 30 college games on TV last season, so I'm curious what to make of his game.
-- Andrew R., New Jersey
I was going to use this assessment at some point when writing about Jennings and his unique path from growing up in Southern California to finishing his high school career in Virginia to committing to Arizona to instead spending 2008-09 just trying to get minutes as a pro in Italy. But this is as good a time as any. Straight from a GM: "If he gets it from the neck up, he will be as special as a lot of players in this league. Physical tools, he's off the charts."
Jennings is cocky, which is great in moderation until a young player proves himself. He's also small, 6-1 and wiry. But he's super quick, aggressive and gets to the rim. The common comparison is Kenny Anderson (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/players/393), which is fine with Jennings since Anderson is his idol.
He got underwhelming reviews for his season in Italy, though it wasn't all Jennings' fault. A lot of European teams operate with a class system -- veterans get the minutes even if they're being outplayed, young guys wait their turn. Jennings was frustrated. But he also has the personality of someone who wants to stand out for taking a unique path.
Via SI.com

Anthem
06-05-2009, 03:13 PM
If only I had my own little "That's what she said!" picture...
;twss;

:twss:

Hicks
06-05-2009, 03:14 PM
Need a link, please.

As for the comment itself, I'm very interested in his talent, but I'm very put off by his potential personality issues.

Anthem
06-05-2009, 03:14 PM
Seriously, though, a question for the board. I know squat about Jennings, but a month ago if you'd heard the Pacers had traded up to get the #8 pick and we'd taken him, would you have been upset?

Jonathan
06-05-2009, 03:17 PM
Jennings SHOULD be ready to hit the ground running b/c of his experience overseas last season. I think it will be very interesting to see who goes first b/t Jennings and G. Henderson of Duke.

I think Roy Hibbert was more mature than D Arthur in the interview process last year and we went with Roy. Maybe the same went for Rush vs Bayless.

I do not think the player we draft this year will be much more than a rotational player his first two seasons with the chance of starting or seeing significant minutes his third year. If player X can do that I am very happy.

Jonathan
06-05-2009, 03:20 PM
Seriously, though, a question for the board. I know squat about Jennings, but a month ago if you'd heard the Pacers had traded up to get the #8 pick and we'd taken him, would you have been upset?

Depends what or he we traded? I do not expect Jennings to better than Shaun Livingston (pre injury).

Eindar
06-05-2009, 03:50 PM
I'd be pretty happy if Jennings fell to us at #13. He's a great talent, a bit of a project, but I don't see any big men who would really help us, and our other need is PG, and I think he's got the potential to be as good as Evans or Holiday.

Thinking about his potential personality problems, I think it's OK to have one knucklehead on your team. It's when you have 2 or more that you begin to have problems in the clubhouse. I don't think we have any of these character issue guys on our team (well, except Tinsley), so taking a gamble in this draft would be OK with me. Also, with the quality guys we have on the roster, it's a good environment to bring in a young guy and try to control his attitude/ego.

I think if we can walk away from this draft with Jennings and Hansbrough, and probably shedding TJ to get that extra pick, I'd consider it to be a very successful draft.

Hicks
06-05-2009, 04:10 PM
Actually, I hope we do draft Jennings and "Bayless him" to a different team for the guy we really want plus another player we want who is already playing.

Regarding the "One knucklehead is okay" theory, I think that's true if the knucklehead isn't going to be one of your core, best players. A role player. A cog. But if it's one of your key pieces, I think you're playing with fire.

Trophy
06-05-2009, 04:14 PM
How come he played for Italy and not in America?

Gamble1
06-05-2009, 04:20 PM
How come he played for Italy and not in America?
Money.

idioteque
06-05-2009, 04:21 PM
Uh, this "knucklehead" thing seems to be completely unfounded to me. Every scouting report I have read of his has mentioned his work ethic. And his blog is pretty interesting to read and he sure does not seem like a knucklehead from that.

He has a bit of a swagger that reminds me of a Mark Jackson-type attitude (not comparing their games here). If you think that is toxic, then you're waaaay too shell shocked from the Artest fiasco of 4-5 years ago.

idioteque
06-05-2009, 04:23 PM
How come he played for Italy and not in America?

He didn't play "for" Italy the country, he played for an Italian Euroleague team. That is no different than Danny Granger playing for the Indiana Pacers and maintaining his citizenship of Louisiana (I think that is where he is from). He is an American citizen and would presumably represent the United States in any international competition.

Hicks
06-05-2009, 04:24 PM
You're a knucklehead depending on your (inappropriate) behavior, not how hard you work. Ron Artest works his *** off, for example.

Trophy
06-05-2009, 04:25 PM
He didn't play "for" Italy the country, he played for an Italian Euroleague team. That is no different than Danny Granger playing for the Indiana Pacers and maintaining his citizenship of Louisiana (I think that is where he is from). He is an American citizen and would presumably represent the United States in any international competition.

Yeah I meant to say for Italy. Thanks for clearing this up and yeah Danny's from Louisiana.

idioteque
06-05-2009, 04:28 PM
You're a knucklehead depending on your (inappropriate) behavior, not how hard you work. Ron Artest works his *** off, for example.

I haven't heard of any situation where Brandon Jennings was behaving inappropriately on or off the court. I haven't even heard of any character problems of his. Seeing him in interviews and his mannerisms on the court (not the plays) he reminds me a lot of a young Mark Jackson when it comes to attitude. I don't see this as a bad thing. Read his blog if you want to get a better feel for him. Are you reading something I haven't seen?

MrSparko
06-05-2009, 04:30 PM
Actually, I hope we do draft Jennings and "Bayless him" to a different team for the guy we really want plus another player we want who is already playing.

Regarding the "One knucklehead is okay" theory, I think that's true if the knucklehead isn't going to be one of your core, best players. A role player. A cog. But if it's one of your key pieces, I think you're playing with fire.

Rasheed Wallace was a pretty key piece of a championship team.

Ok then again I suppose that doesn't mean they weren't playing with fire.

Gamble1
06-05-2009, 04:31 PM
I haven't heard of any situation where Brandon Jennings was behaving inappropriately on or off the court. I haven't even heard of any character problems of his. Seeing him in interviews and his mannerisms on the court (not the plays) he reminds me a lot of a young Mark Jackson when it comes to attitude. I don't see this as a bad thing. Read his blog if you want to get a better feel for him. Are you reading something I haven't seen?
ITs been mentioned on the forum.. His twitter crap about coasting after his big pay day.
http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/showthread.php?t=47185&page=4

In defense of Hicks. It was Tinsley, Artest, Jackson, Quis. WE need not bring this up the Pacers have already stated that they want differnent types of players and I am not sure if Jennings is or isn't a knucklehead.

Anthem
06-05-2009, 04:39 PM
ITs been mentioned on the forum.. His twitter crap about coasting after his big pay day.
Dude, go check his twitter page. There isn't anything about coasting after a big payday. There's a tweet where he says being a lotto pick isn't necessary to be successful.

People are putting a lot of weight on Twitter without, I think, understanding what Twitter is. I've been reading his feed; there's nothing there that makes me think he's too full of himself.

He thinks Rubio should be the #1 pick over Blake, for whatever that's worth.

Anthem
06-05-2009, 04:41 PM
Ahh, I just found the offending section. Somebody asked him about the rookie paycheck if he doesn't go top 5 and he said this:


Naw Im not nervous whatever happen its suppose too happen! like dude said, whats important is 2nd and 3rd contract!
Doesn't sound like somebody who wants to coast, unless you think he'll coast after his third contract. That's, what, 15 years in the league? Anybody we pick will be lucky to be in the league that long.

I think people look for a reason to be offended.

CableKC
06-05-2009, 04:59 PM
Actually, I hope we do draft Jennings and "Bayless him" to a different team for the guy we really want plus another player we want who is already playing.

Regarding the "One knucklehead is okay" theory, I think that's true if the knucklehead isn't going to be one of your core, best players. A role player. A cog. But if it's one of your key pieces, I think you're playing with fire.
I agree with this....+1.

For now, he'll have to work out with more Teams so that we can all get a better impression of him......but so far, he's another "talented Player with a potentially high ceiling but still a project" type player that I would prefer that we do not draft. If we could "Bayless him" ( Hicks should Copyright that term ), for players that could immediatly contribute...then I'd be okay with that.

Chewy
06-05-2009, 05:31 PM
Seriously, where do these character issues come from? All i have read or seen from him in interviews showed me that he's a pretty intelligent young man, yet a lot of people call him a knucklehead. Is that because he skipped a college year, where he would have coasted through classes anyway?

He didn't get much playing time, because the team was very good and the only goal was winning not developing players, and a coach whose famous for getting the best of the young players left mid-season due to average results, which wasn't enough, but he practiced, didn't whine about playing time, traveled all over europe, made some money of which he donated 50k to victims of an earthquake in Italy. This just doesn't scream immature to me.

Not sure what player he will become, but he has tons of potential, if he works hard on his weakneses, which he has several, he's gonna be pretty good.

Gamble1
06-05-2009, 05:35 PM
Ahh, I just found the offending section. Somebody asked him about the rookie paycheck if he doesn't go top 5 and he said this:


Doesn't sound like somebody who wants to coast, unless you think he'll coast after his third contract. That's, what, 15 years in the league? Anybody we pick will be lucky to be in the league that long.

I think people look for a reason to be offended.
I believe Indy used the actual word coast and I didn't check it out so my apologies.

Eindar
06-05-2009, 06:01 PM
The "knucklehead" thing:

I'm not sure he is or isn't, to be honest. But the decision to go pro in Europe instead of college makes some (not me) question whether he wants to play for love of the game or merely for love of money.

Recently, however, he's decided to skip both the NBA Draft combine and also the NBA Eurocamp. Combine that with a fairly lackluster, but also not surprising rookie season playing against teams far better than any NCAA club, and it's definitely going to hurt his draft stock. Scouts are saying that they haven't seen enough of him to get a feel for his abilities, and so teams high in the lottery are thinking about passing due to the dearth of good info on him in 5-on-5 settings. That's where the character issues are. If he was so worried about making money that he skipped the year of (free) college to go pro in Europe, why is he now skipping the draft camps, which could cost him a couple million over the course of his rookie contract?

Regardless, I'd take a chance on him at #13, because I don't think it's as big a deal as the scouts are making it out to be. And if it turns out to be nothing at all? All the better.

idioteque
06-05-2009, 06:16 PM
Like Hicks and KC said, I also wouldn't mind Baylessing Jennings elsewhere.

One idea: pick Jennings, trade him for Henderson and a second round pick to net Jeff Adrien, and get a decent vet PF.

MrSparko
06-05-2009, 06:18 PM
Maybe his family needed the money? I honestly don't know, but I didn't realize that wanting to earn money became a bad thing. All these athletes that go one year in college are most likely getting paid pretty well too...and its not like they're out to get an education. I would rather tour Europe for a year while getting paid (legally), and play against better talent myself.


(Sorry Eindar I didn't catch the part where you said *not me* my point still stands though).

Eindar
06-05-2009, 06:22 PM
Maybe his family needed the money? I honestly don't know, but I didn't realize that wanting to earn money became a bad thing. All these athletes that go one year in college are most likely getting paid pretty well too...and its not like they're out to get an education. I would rather tour Europe for a year while getting paid (legally), and play against better talent myself.


(Sorry Eindar I didn't catch the part where you said *not me* my point still stands though).

No offense taken! :)

ESutt7
06-05-2009, 07:45 PM
He went to Europe because he didn't qualify academically to Arizona, the school to which he had committed. That and the Lute Olson disaster pushed him to try his hand in Europe and be a "pioneer."

Tom White
06-05-2009, 09:32 PM
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I just remember the McDonald's All-star game last year. He is so quick and has crazy handles. He may need refinement, but 5 years down the road he might be one of the best players in this draft. He shoots very well off the dribble it seems. Better than Rubio and Holiday.

Yeah. Nice video of him missing those two dunks! :laugh:

Major Cold
06-05-2009, 10:33 PM
Maybe he wants to fall. Maybe he sees the organizations in the top of the draft and knows he doesn't have a chance playing, or show casing. Maybe he hopes to fall to the knicks or GSW hoping to get in a free for all offense.

I think Jennings has demonstrated that he is capaple of playing the point and involving others. Bayless did not. I do not want to "Bayless" Jennings, unless we get an even moreso deal. I think Jennings is a better PG prospect. And if we trade I will "Shade" my pants.

Anthem
06-05-2009, 10:35 PM
First off, I've got to say I know nothing about the kid really, and so I'm not interested in being his foremost defender. He really could be a total jerk. I'm just saying that nothing in his comments say that, and the "knucklehead" stuff on this board is unwarranted.


But the decision to go pro in Europe instead of college makes some (not me) question whether he wants to play for love of the game or merely for love of money.
Dude, no matter how much you love the game you've still got to earn a paycheck. His twitter feed said that while he would have enjoyed Arizona, he didn't regret going pro early because it helped him support his family. Maybe that's a pretty lie to feed the press, but he didn't seem the type to create a false cover story.

I think people must have a rosier view of college ball than I do. As if it's some noble thing to go to a major university, party tons, take six easy classes, and then move to the NBA. Fans of the college ball system talk about the purity of the NCAA game, but it's never looked that pure to me. It doesn't offend me that a kid who planned on going pro out of high school did a year in a different pro league when the NBA put in the age limit.

Anthem
06-05-2009, 10:42 PM
And if we trade I will "Shade" my pants.
:laugh:

MillerTime
06-05-2009, 11:02 PM
Help me out...
Maybe Brandon Bass

d_c
06-06-2009, 01:04 AM
I think people must have a rosier view of college ball than I do. As if it's some noble thing to go to a major university, party tons, take six easy classes, and then move to the NBA. Fans of the college ball system talk about the purity of the NCAA game, but it's never looked that pure to me. It doesn't offend me that a kid who planned on going pro out of high school did a year in a different pro league when the NBA put in the age limit.

I think Jennings as a person probably benefited much more from one year of living abroad in another country where he had to interact with people of different cultures and languages than a simple one and done year in college.

What the heck does a player gain from going to college one year and then bolting? Please don't say education, LOL.

I'd be surprised if one single one and done player ever went back for his degree. I'll be impressed by anyone who did. And the time spent there is just partying and taking a bunch of easy classes with no real goal of ever graduating.

Taterhead
06-06-2009, 03:30 AM
I actually like Jennings, but when are we going to do something about our defense? You remember that gaping weakness that has kept us from making the playoffs the last few years?

Eindar
06-06-2009, 06:57 AM
First off, I've got to say I know nothing about the kid really, and so I'm not interested in being his foremost defender. He really could be a total jerk. I'm just saying that nothing in his comments say that, and the "knucklehead" stuff on this board is unwarranted.


Dude, no matter how much you love the game you've still got to earn a paycheck. His twitter feed said that while he would have enjoyed Arizona, he didn't regret going pro early because it helped him support his family. Maybe that's a pretty lie to feed the press, but he didn't seem the type to create a false cover story.

I think people must have a rosier view of college ball than I do. As if it's some noble thing to go to a major university, party tons, take six easy classes, and then move to the NBA. Fans of the college ball system talk about the purity of the NCAA game, but it's never looked that pure to me. It doesn't offend me that a kid who planned on going pro out of high school did a year in a different pro league when the NBA put in the age limit.

I'm not a fan of the college system. I feel like the players should be getting paid something to play college basketball. I also feel like the current system essentially forces players to become an indentured servant for a year before they can pursue their career in the NBA and overseas.

However, having said that, there was a lot of hoopla around Jennings' decision to go overseas instead of to college, and I can't believe that that sentiment has died down simply because a few months have passed. Personally, I think a lot of people are simply butt-hurt because someone finally realized there's a loophole in David Stern and the NCAA's racket, and so they're now trying to make an example of Jennings so that nobody else will try it.

MyFavMartin
06-06-2009, 10:18 AM
He had trouble qualifying to get into Arizona. That's the reason he was in Europe.

MyFavMartin
06-06-2009, 10:32 AM
From DX: “Gotta limit those turnovers” Jennings explains to us afterwards. “My job is to be a pass-first point guard.”

From what I've seen, he doesn't look to score first.

Naptown_Seth
06-06-2009, 11:02 AM
NBA teams were not allowed to scout Jennings in high school, and many saw their scouting trips to Italy this year come up empty as they only were able to see him play for a few minutes at a time, often at the shooting guard position.Hmmm, striking familiar to what happened with Jrue at UCLA.

I'm with you guys taking the side that had he stayed stateside he would have had huge exposure, and given the talent level of the NCAA he would be this college star prospect. Seriously, just for second consider the chances that ALL these guys become some great, reliable PG in the NBA - Maynor, Flynn, Lawson, Curry, Evans, Teague...

The point being is that these guys WERE NCAA stars and got tons of exposure, but those indicators are going to be fraudulent in at least a few of these cases, and perhaps all of them. That's the #1 thing I've pulled away from taking the time to actually scout NCAA games via TV rather than just listening to buzz and the occasional highlight, lots of guys can have success at the NCAA level. The key is HOW they get it.

For some reason scouts, paid scouts in some cases, bite at the silliest of things from NCAA players which is how you see so many busts. There still seems to be an issue with cross-comparing players in different leagues, levels and without a doubt NCAA vs Euro.

The one thing that I like with Jennings is that he faced a much more difficult situation already. He'll definitely be more coddled in the NBA than he just was, whereas most NCAA stars are in a for a really rude awakening. Jennings isn't going to see a level of passing offense and movement much higher than he just did.

Admittedly he did struggle, but not always. To me it was quite a bit like you might expect the rookie year of a good but not special straight-from-HS player in the NBA. After all Jermaine O'Neal was a massive bust by a first year standard. Just think of scouts coming to see JO with Portland year one if they were a Euro team. No PT, overshadowed by many other frontline guys and super high competition (title contender at that time).

So they cool to JO and he falls. Pacers get him at 14th or so and suddenly he makes an AS team. Miracle or weak scouting?


Jennings like any player can fail, but he's shown a knack for passing and has put himself deep in the heart of adversity. My only issue is when will Euro team's stop chucking money at US players that aren't ready to be at the level they expect. They're getting worse than NBA clubs.


And bottom line with Jennings to me is playing style ala Tinsley year 1-2. Lots of crazy passes, lots of misses, lots of action, questionable shot. It's not perfect, but what I liked about Tinsley then was that unlike ball killer Best Tinsley made players play. At any time he was willing to sling the rock your way so you had to run, had to move, and knew that it might be worth your effort in the end. If Jennings pans out that's the type of guy you get.

Naptown_Seth
06-06-2009, 11:08 AM
I actually like Jennings, but when are we going to do something about our defense? You remember that gaping weakness that has kept us from making the playoffs the last few years?
True. And there is no way Jennings helps that.

Of course this is another reason I jock TWill. You get the passing AND defense. Not your PG solution, but perhaps a point forward instead.

Regardless, they really do need to think about players that can help at both ends or defense first. But if the pick replaces a traded player then that also changes things. Also at a ticket buyer meet-greet last season Morway mentioned to me that their approach was now to assemble pieces that complimented each other and work as a unit, and he indicated that (paraphrasing) this was a change from a more pure talent is key mindset. I also took it to mean personalities as well by the way the discussion had gone before and after that.

I don't know where Jennings fits into that but I would assume that if he's on the board at their pick and they take him that they will have properly vetted his personality. I think if he avoided contact with the team, such as scouting or interviews, that they would pass on him simply because they are no longer taking the big risk, big reward approach. I think they want to have a bit more control of the team's future than those types of moves afford them.

Gamble1
06-06-2009, 12:02 PM
I actually like Jennings, but when are we going to do something about our defense? You remember that gaping weakness that has kept us from making the playoffs the last few years?
WEll if you follow Birds comments its more of the defensive scheme than the players which I sort of buy but its obivious we lack starters who can lock there man down. Besides who in this draft would get signficant minutes to make a big impact on defense. Remember these guys will be rookies and have to play possibly not to their strengths on defense + learn a new system.

PG Ford/Jack(assuming he's retained)/Diener + draftee which won't be an upgrade on defense
SG Rush/Jack + Dunleavy when healthy + draftee ( Henderson, Twill) upgrade but really how many minutes will they get if Duns healthy.
SF Granger Playing over 30 minutes of the game. Early healthy Dun could slot here as 6th man. Draftee Big sg or sf could find minutes here
PF Murph/Foster/McRoberts
C Hibbert/foster

Given our coach and the rookie adjustments period early on I could see a drafted payer only getting 10 minutes early on in the season. After mid way I would expect Duns to come back in which case the coach will favor him over the draftee presumbably if its a sg/sf. Remember Rush last year in the month of Jan. only got 10 minutes a game. If the draftee is a pg well it won't be an upgrade on the defensive end. At PF there are very few that would provide a "signficant" improvement on defense and even that is a question mark.

For me I would much rather look to FA/trade in order to upgrade our defense in conjunction with changing our pathetic scheme. This would be the most likely way that we could make the playoffs this year IMO.

Justin Tyme
06-06-2009, 04:11 PM
For me I would much rather look to FA/trade in order to upgrade our defense in conjunction with changing our pathetic scheme. This would be the most likely way that we could make the playoffs this year IMO.

I agree, and have no problem with trading our 1st in order to do so.

In response to those who are counting on Dun, the word "IF" keeps being said in regards to him. If this or if that with Dun, "IF" means it's nothing more than a possibility. "IF Dun can" shouldn't decide whether the Pacers pick a wing, b/c "IF" is no guarantee Dun will be back, can play at a contributing level, or be the player those envision after "finally" having the season he had in 07-08. IOW, you can't count on "IF's", so you don't pass on a wing b/c of "IF" Dun this or that.

ESutt7
06-06-2009, 07:15 PM
DraftExpress has some nice interviews with Jennings. Listening to him, reading some of the stories and interviews, it sounds like he's a pretty good guy. Seems mature and very appreciative of the experience. Sounds like he got a lot out of it. I remember seeing him play in some All-Star games and he was a joy to watch, really put on a show for people. Seems like he has all the abilities, and based on the interviews his head is on straight. I've warmed up to the idea of him a lot since listening to them. Check them out and form your own opinion of the kid.

Gamble1
06-06-2009, 10:06 PM
He had trouble qualifying to get into Arizona. That's the reason he was in Europe.

Should have committed to Memphis. They could have helped him out.

MyFavMartin
06-06-2009, 11:25 PM
Should have committed to Memphis. They could have helped him out.

:laugh:

owl
06-06-2009, 11:29 PM
I think people must have a rosier view of college ball than I do. As if it's some noble thing to go to a major university, party tons, take six easy classes, and then move to the NBA. Fans of the college ball system talk about the purity of the NCAA game, but it's never looked that pure to me. It doesn't offend me that a kid who planned on going pro out of high school did a year in a different pro league when the NBA put in the age limit.

Frankly, I believe the one year rule makes a mockery of a college education. There are
other options for players who want to get paid immediately.
In other words, I agree with you.

Taterhead
06-07-2009, 12:54 AM
Frankly, I believe the one year rule makes a mockery of a college education. There are
other options for players who want to get paid immediately.
In other words, I agree with you.

I gotta agree with you guys. What a noble thing wasting scholarship money on someone who has no interest in an education at all. I wish they would push these kids to europe to be honest. Or create some form of prep league for these guys, similar to the minors in baseball.

Give scholarships to scholars.

Cobalt_Colt
06-07-2009, 06:08 AM
For what its worth I have watched a lot of Oakhill basketball over the years. (only decent sporting event in middle of nowhere VA) And Jennings is the 2nd most talented player I've seen come through. (Melo is tops) But it really depends on who is left on the board, as to whether we should pick him up or not. He is better than Rondo I think,(as far as HS goes) but I really have no idea about his work ethic or any of that, just from what I've seen he is very talented.

MillerTime
06-07-2009, 10:22 AM
He had trouble qualifying to get into Arizona. That's the reason he was in Europe.
The reason he went to Europe was because of the money

Justin Tyme
06-07-2009, 11:16 AM
I gotta agree with you guys. What a noble thing wasting scholarship money on someone who has no interest in an education at all. I wish they would push these kids to europe to be honest. Or create some form of prep league for these guys, similar to the minors in baseball.

Give scholarships to scholars.


Isn't that what the NBADL and the CBA is for? No, it doesn't pay what Europe pays, but the players are here where the NBA teams can view them.

As far as I'm concerned if HS players accept a scholarship to play BB in college, they should have to stay at least 2 years for accepting the scholarship. If they don't like it, then go to Europe, CBA, NBADL, or whatever and play.

I'm in favor of college offering a 4 year athletic scholarship, and for those that choose to go to the NBA early let them pay back the college for the years they used the scholarship. The college made a committment to them for 4 years, now let them honor their committment to the college.

As for those that don't like the age limit restriction, both the presidency and congress has one.... 25 & 35 IIRC. The founding fathers didn't seem to have a problem setting up age restrictions which seems to be based on the age of what they thought was maturity to do the job. JMOAA

ESutt7
06-07-2009, 01:43 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twl2F5iB7sA

Here are some highlights of Jennings in Europe, for those that haven't seen him play at all over there. He obviously needs to get stronger around the rim, but that's to be expected when he's going against some grown men who have been playing pro ball for years. He also fades away and throws the ball up for his jumpshot, truly awful form, but that's certainly correctable and something he has said he has worked on. Even his FTs he flings it without holding his follow through, something a lot of young players do.

But his speed and quickness are great (though he needs to recognize that in certain situations that you can see in this video, where he could have attacked off isolation and didn't, instead taking some bad 3s). His instincts are things you can't teach though. He's certainly a project, but he has the ability to be a top flight PG IMO. His frame reminds me of Rondo/Rose...lanky, wiry strong. Just needs to get stronger than he is now, as all rookies do. Certainly wouldn't be upset if the Pacers picked a talent like this at 13. It'll be interesting to see if he takes a tumble in the draft or if his star potential is enough for someone to take a chance on him. I think a good player will fall to us at 13.

Hicks
06-07-2009, 02:14 PM
Wait, that was Primoz Brezec in there! That makes him part-Pacer already! :D

ESutt7
06-07-2009, 03:09 PM
Yep, and former Celtic great Allan Ray!

MyFavMartin
06-07-2009, 03:43 PM
The reason he went to Europe was because of the money

Really?

He took a standardized test THREE times to try to get into Arizona.

NapTonius Monk
06-07-2009, 04:17 PM
Isn't that what the NBADL and the CBA is for? No, it doesn't pay what Europe pays, but the players are here where the NBA teams can view them.

As far as I'm concerned if HS players accept a scholarship to play BB in college, they should have to stay at least 2 years for accepting the scholarship. If they don't like it, then go to Europe, CBA, NBADL, or whatever and play.

I'm in favor of college offering a 4 year athletic scholarship, and for those that choose to go to the NBA early let them pay back the college for the years they used the scholarship. The college made a committment to them for 4 years, now let them honor their committment to the college.

As for those that don't like the age limit restriction, both the presidency and congress has one.... 25 & 35 IIRC. The founding fathers didn't seem to have a problem setting up age restrictions which seems to be based on the age of what they thought was maturity to do the job. JMOAA

Ok, now, if you're talking about a one-and-done player, he is likely a top level blue chip talent. Would not the money the university makes off the backs of these players be repayment enough? Let's not let the 'poor' colleges off the hook here. They're pocketing big time off these athletes, and a 1 year scholarship is a small price to pay for what the universities make in return.

MrSparko
06-07-2009, 06:23 PM
Yea there's a reason these schools are giving those scholarships. Its not because they want to make them the best lawyers they can be...

Kemo
06-07-2009, 07:24 PM
I'm not a fan of the college system. I feel like the players should be getting paid something to play college basketball.

I kind of agree to a point with this statement ... EXCEPT .. I don't think they should be paid to play persay , I most definitely believe that they should get some MASSIVE (like say for instance 80%) debt relief from their college tuition they have to pay to go to school..
That way they have alot of incentive to stay in school and get their education, without the major pressure of worrying about not being able to pay the bills of actually being able to stay in school..

Now I would be all for that ..

eldubious
06-07-2009, 07:56 PM
Jennings reminds me of Rod Strickland, but I don't believe the Pacers have the mindset of developing talent. Bird has proved this the last couple of years. I don't believe Jennings will fall to 13th, Maynor or Lawson would have to creep up into the lottery for that to happen. If he does fall, it would be because of poor workouts, not because of lack of exposure. But, after people said Anthony Randolph was a bust and had poor workouts, I believe a team would be willing to take a chance on Jennings around the top 10.

NapTonius Monk
06-07-2009, 09:30 PM
Jennings reminds me of Rod Strickland, but I don't believe the Pacers have the mindset of developing talent. Bird has proved this the last couple of years. I don't believe Jennings will fall to 13th, Maynor or Lawson would have to creep up into the lottery for that to happen. If he does fall, it would be because of poor workouts, not because of lack of exposure. But, after people said Anthony Randolph was a bust and had poor workouts, I believe a team would be willing to take a chance on Jennings around the top 10.

Elaborate on this statement please. How so?

Anthem
06-07-2009, 10:10 PM
I think Jennings as a person probably benefited much more from one year of living abroad in another country where he had to interact with people of different cultures and languages than a simple one and done year in college.

What the heck does a player gain from going to college one year and then bolting? Please don't say education, LOL.

I'd be surprised if one single one and done player ever went back for his degree. I'll be impressed by anyone who did. And the time spent there is just partying and taking a bunch of easy classes with no real goal of ever graduating.
Great post. I should have gone for the gold but hesitated; you nailed it.

Jennings' time in Europe is far more likely to help him in an NBA career than if he'd spent that time in the NCAA.

naptownmenace
06-08-2009, 10:24 AM
I am also extremely high on Tyreke Evans and Jrue Holiday. Like Jennings, these two have all star ceilings. The NBA is moving towards larger PG's (Rondo, Rose, Williams, Westbrook, etc) - these three fit that bill

I am cautiously optimistic Bird can walk away with one of those three at 13. If we could snuff out a gem PG in this draft, we would be a young PF away from having an absolutely dominanting young core at the 1 through 5. Outside of Griffin, I feel the PF's in this draft are only mediocre NBA players at best (Hill, Blair, Hansborough, etc), which is why I am leaning towards one of these three PG's.

Excellent thoughts.

Even though the Pacers have 3 PGs on the payroll and a potential 4th if they re-sign JJ, I think if the best player available - meaning the player with the most potential to be an All-Star - should be drafted.

I'm hopeful that they can get Evans or Holiday (Rubio would be a dream come true - a pipe dream I know) but if both are gone and Jennings is available, they should select him. He didn't light up the scoreboard overseas but he played against professional and better talent and that should at the very least make him the 3rd or 4th best guard in the draft.

Infinite MAN_force
06-08-2009, 02:02 PM
I think this sentiment that Bird will only going after college seniors is a bit off base. Sure, last year we needed some serious help immediatly and Bird went for the more mature NBA "ready" players Rush and Hibbert, but I haven't seen anything that indicates that is some sort of permanent prerequisite for every draft going forward. Generally the standard line is to take the best talent available. If that talent is Jennings, who is probably easily one of the top 5 most naturally talented players in this draft... at the 13 spot potentially.. That is who you take.

Anthem
06-08-2009, 03:38 PM
I'm hopeful that they can get Evans or Holiday (Rubio would be a dream come true - a pipe dream I know) but if both are gone and Jennings is available, they should select him.
Rubio's definitely a pipe dream, but Holiday's not much less so. Right now he's projecting top-5 in most mocks, and just about nobody thinks he'll be available at #13.

MillerTime
06-09-2009, 05:02 PM
Jennings reminds me a lot of Ford, the way they are a little undersized, quick and can jumpp. Jennings probably has better passing capabilities than Ford and Jennings is definitely more of a street baller than Ford is

themayhem87
06-09-2009, 05:37 PM
theres an article on espn about jennings but its insider...any one care to post it so we can all read more?

count55
06-09-2009, 05:40 PM
By Chad Ford
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2009/insider/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=brandonjennings-090609


TREVISO, Italy -- Two weeks ago, Brandon Jennings' grand European experiment ended with a whimper and then, a demand.

His team, Lottomotica Roma, had just been upset in the quarterfinals of the Italian League playoffs. Jennings, who many NBA scouts predict will be a lottery pick in this month's NBA draft, hadn't played a minute in the entire playoff series.

Frustrated, and a little bit angry, Jennings had had enough. Before his team had even left the court he was on the phone with his agent.

"Get me out of here."

Within 48 hours Jennings was on a plane back home to Los Angeles. His one-year European adventure was over.

***

Last Friday, a number of top NBA GMs headed in the opposite direction, to Italy, to watch Jennings play in the 2009 Reebok Eurocamp.

Their flights were booked weeks in advance on the promise that Jennings would attend. The buzz about seeing Jennings unleashed drew an unusually high amount of GMs to the event. But by the time they arrived on Friday, they already knew the bad news. While the Eurocamp had a number of interesting international prospects, the main attraction wasn't coming.

"We all came to see whether this kid can really play," one veteran GM told ESPN.com. "I'd heard the hype, watched the video and heard various opinions from my scouts. I wanted to see how he stacked up against other top kids his age. Then he doesn't show. He sure isn't making this easy on us. You want to like the kid, but he ain't giving you a lot to go on."

Other GMs around the league have expressed similar opinions all week. A few didn't even make the trip to Italy after they got word he backed out. The ones who are there are asking the same question: Is Jennings worthy of the hype?

The answer to that question varies widely here at the camp. I spent the weekend talking to dozens of people in Italy. Some were Italian coaches. Others were rival Italian GMs. I talked to veteran NBA international scouts, coaches and executives who have followed him closely this year.

Their descriptions of Jennings -- the player and the man -- were all virtually identical. To a man, nearly every person I spoke with described the same strengths and weaknesses. But when it comes to making conclusions about his future in the NBA, there is no consensus.

Jennings remains the biggest enigma in this year's draft.

* * *

Jennings shocked the college basketball world last year when he decided to skip his freshman season at Arizona and leave the NCAA behind for a professional contract in Rome. Some say he was motivated by low SAT scores. Others by money. A few whispered that Jennings was being controlled by basketball mogul Sonny Vaccaro -- a man on a mission to buck the NCAA and all of its eligibility rules.

Jennings has been equally vilified and revered in America for his groundbreaking move. The college basketball powers that be mocked the decision. Why would the NBA take seriously anyone who skipped the chance to play at a blue-chip school in one of the best conferences in the nation?

But for those who have been looking for alternative routes to the NBA outside of the indentured servitude that is big-time college basketball -- Jennings was a trailblazer. If Jennings could do it, they argued, maybe the NCAA, now faced with real competition for the top high school prospects -- would loosen its draconian amateur rules. Maybe it would even think about paying its star athletes.

Despite the hopes and fears on both sides, Jennings' one-year stint in Rome wasn't everything either side had hoped for. Much to the chagrin of the anti-Jennings, pro-college contingent, virtually every NBA scout and GM who saw him play reported that he matured, both as a player and a person, in Italy. He got more practice time than he would ever have received in college. He was schooled in the fundamentals by one of the best developmental coaches in Europe, Serbia's Nenad Trajkovic. Most importantly, he learned how to play like a man and act like a pro on and off the court.

However, the experience itself was a mixed bag. For the pro-Jennings, anti-college crowd, Jennings' experience in Europe reads as a cautionary tale. He never got consistent minutes. He struggled with his shot and confidence. Team politics were a major factor in whether he was playing or not. And, as Jennings told The New York Times in January, being a 19-year-old pro in Europe wasn't everything he thought it would be.

"I've gotten paid one time this year," Jennings told the Times. "They treat me like a little kid. They don't see me as a man. If you get on a good team, you don't play a lot. Some nights you play a lot. Some nights you don't play at all. That's just the way it is."

The "way it is" posed a number of problems for NBA teams trying to scout Jennings this season. Scouting a teenager in the Italian League is a little different from scouting him in the Pac-10.

Show up at one game, like the Euroleague contest against Tau Ceramica earlier this year, and you might see Jennings shine. Show up in March, and he might barely get onto the floor against weak competition.

Drop in on a practice in December, and you'd see Jennings getting picked apart by the coaching staff and veteran European and American players. See him in March, and watch him dominate those same teammates.

See Jennings make a spectacular pass worthy of the "SportsCenter" highlight reel one minute. Watch him take a bad shot and make an even uglier turnover a few minutes later.

Jennings was, to put it mildly, all over the place this season and many of the opinions from the people I spoke with varied based on when, and where, they had seen him.

A number of Italian coaches and GMs weren't big fans. They felt his game was too American. They said he struggled to rein in his instincts to start playing one-on-one when a teammate missed a shot or two. They lauded his athleticism and acknowledged his abilities to do things on the floor few Europeans could ever dream of. But when pressed, they saw an athlete, not a basketball player.

"Jennings' game is all about his athleticism," one prominent European GM told me. "Like many of the Americans we see come to Europe, he just doesn't have a great feel for the game. No one ever taught him how or when to pass. Speed and athleticism are fine. But I want a point guard who puts the team above their own individual game. I don't blame the young man for this. He is just the product of a corrupt development system that is ruining American basketball."

To say that many of the Italian opinions I heard on Jennings also conformed to stereotypes that many European scouts and coaches have about virtually all American players, white or black, is regrettable, but true. Much of the world doesn't hold American hoops in the same high regard as it did a decade ago. A few dysfunctional Team USA performances and some young international prospects who were ruined when they went to the NBA play a large part in how the world sees the American game.

But their opinions were also backed up by a number of veteran NBA scouts who questioned whether Jennings was the second coming of Allen Iverson, not Chris Paul.

"I see a lot more of Iverson to Jennings' game than I do CP3's," one veteran American scout who has watched Jennings play in both America and Italy said. "Iverson can dish out assists too, but he controls the tempo of a game with his own game, not by making others better. I see a lot of that in Jennings. He makes the pass if he can make a spectacular one. If he can't, he shoots the shot. Either way his mentality is what makes him look the best, not necessarily the team."

I've seen some of what those experts describe in the 10 or so games I've watched of Jennings this season via video. More scouts say they see more evidence of the flashy, selfish Jennings in the practices than in the games. However, I've also seen Jennings make the right decisions for his team when it matters. He may have more work to do in that area, but so do Rajon Rondo and Derrick Rose.

"He's a smart kid," said one NBA coach who saw him later in the season. "You look at him in high school and now and it's clear to me he's started to pick up the rhythm of the European game. He's never going to be a European-type of player. But neither is Dwyane Wade or Kobe Bryant. No matter how many Europeans you talk to, he's never going to measure up that way. But he's trying and is showing he can be effective in the half-court game. Watch a practice and you see what he can do when that game starts going up and down. I think it's really important that a player learns to play both ways. Jennings has learned that this year."

Several veteran NBA scouts, who have been scouting both college ball and the international game for years, rolled their eyes at the criticism Jennings was getting.

One scout, who claimed to have watched Jennings in person during "at least a dozen games" and "tons of practices" (the most of any person I spoke with), was particularly adamant. He felt strongly that Jennings was one of the two or three best prospects in the draft.

"I ask two questions about every prospect. First, do they have the talent to play in the NBA? Second, have they gotten better? I think Jennings gets two huge check marks on both accounts.

"First, Jennings is a crazy athlete. He's as quick as anyone in the draft. No one is going to be able to stay in front of him. He explodes around the basket and he's a clever passer when he wants to be. We saw all of that in high school and if you watched him enough in Europe, you saw it there too. Yeah, he needs to get stronger and work on some stuff. But the raw talent is totally there."

OK, that's talent. Now here's the thing. What did he need to work on?

"Defense. He's become a much better and more committed defender this year. Everyone who has watched him play would acknowledge that.

"Basketball IQ. The European game is a thinking game. He's had to learn all sorts of things that most college kids aren't confronted with. There's no way you can argue his IQ hasn't increased.

"Understanding the team concept. That's what Europe is all about and Jennings has made great strides there. He's not perfect, but he's much better than when he came.

"Shooting. You can't just look at his shooting numbers for the year. His shot is getting better. I don't think it's broken and he's been taking a lot of shots.

"Maturity. Many four-year college players come overseas and can't handle the dramatic change in lifestyle. They are home before Christmas. This kid stuck it out. He left his friends and his life behind. Things didn't go his way with the team he chose. He wasn't pampered. He felt disrespected. He didn't complain. He showed up every day and worked his tail off. He kept getting better. What else do you want?

"In every area he's gotten better. You can't say the same thing about Jrue Holiday or Jonny Flynn or whoever you want to put up there. This kid's learning curve has been dramatic. The numbers are just a part of the story."

That opinion was more typically shared by scouts who had seen Jennings a lot, less so by GMs who may have seen him play only once or twice.

"I'm not sure how you take a kid without a real body of work that high," one NBA GM in Treviso said. "I know this is a weak draft, but are we really taking kids who have struggled to produce in college or Europe in the lottery? I'm all for upside, but it's ridiculous. If Jennings can't get on the floor in Italy, how does he help my team in the next couple of years? How do you take him over some really talented college kids who have proven they can play? Jonny Flynn, Ty Lawson, Steph Curry. Those guys are talented too and they have track records."

***

As the opinions continued to pour in over the weekend -- some pro, some con -- I caught a break Sunday night when word came to me that Jennings' development coach for the past year, Nenad Trajkovic, was in the gym scouting prospects.

Trajkovic is sort of a legend in Europe when it comes to developing young players. He spent years in Serbia preparing guys all the way back to the Vlade Divac years. He's been hired by teams around the world to work with some of the top young talent in the world. He was hired by Jennings' team midseason as a lead assistant and spent every day with Jennings working on his game.

Jennings would practice up to four hours a day, sometimes longer with Trajkovic. A few hours were spent each day learning the offensive and defensive schemes. The rest was focused on fundamental development -- ballhandling, shooting, basketball philosophy.

No one, I would submit, knows Jennings better.

"For sure, Brandon matured as a person and a player this year," Trajkovic said. "From the beginning I was concerned when I saw tape of him in the U.S. and watched him in Italy. He was a special athlete. But he didn't know how to play the game. He liked to play one-on-one or one-on-five, not five-on-five. He dribbled too much. He took bad shots. He made incorrect reads.

"The coach didn't trust him. This team was a veteran team. Winning was important and Brandon didn't know how to help his team win. We worked every day on his decision-making. We worked on the pick-and-roll. We taught him defense. The plan was to bring him along slowly and then, by the middle [of the season] he could be more trusted."

Trajkovic said that Jennings was a hard worker. He said Jennings was a quick study and that the improvement he made in the first few months was dramatic, albeit mostly in practice. However, disaster struck for Jennings when his head coach was fired and replaced with a veteran coach who felt a lot of pressure to win immediately.

"The coach didn't want to take the risk with Brandon," Trajkovic said. "He knew Brandon was improving but he felt more comfortable with veterans. You have to understand. Brandon was leaving, so why risk something for a player who will leave your team anyway?"

Trajkovic said Jennings kept working hard. They often would simulate game conditions in practice and Jennings would dominate, especially later in the season.



Brandon is so much better than the talent here [pointing to the players in the Eurocamp]. He is far and away in front of them in skills and athletic ability. He needs to be competing against your best.
” -- Nenad Trajkovic, Jennings' development coach in Italy

"He kept his focus. Playing was important. But so was development. Sometimes you can't control how much you play. But you can keep working and stay positive. Brandon did this."

As the regular season ended, Jennings came down with a mild case of tendinitis in his knees. The doctors suggested he rest for a game or two. He quickly recovered, but by then, he was totally out of the rotation. His coach didn't want to mess with the chemistry of the team and Jennings watched, helpless on the sidelines, as his team fell in the quarterfinals to Biella -- a team that he had played his best game in the Italian league against just a few months earlier. Trajkovic, for one, didn't blame Jennings for wanting to get out.

"He's a competitor. He was frustrated. He had worked every single day. There were no days off. He hadn't been home. He would have to wait more than a week for the camp. I think he felt it was enough. I agree with this. Brandon is so much better than the talent here [Trajkovic pointing to the players in the Eurocamp]. He is far and away in front of them in skills and athletic ability. He needs to be competing against your best."

Trajkovic wasn't always glowing in his praise. He said Jennings still had more to learn. He needed to totally buy into the team game. He needed to keep taking jump shots (he said Jennings put up more than 30,000 while he was in Europe) and he would need to get stronger in the NBA. But he cautioned not to read too much into Jennings' struggles in Europe.

"I promise you. If you brought LeBron James over from high school straight to Europe, we would have messed him up," Trajkovic said. "We demand different things. It is not enough to do something. You must do it correctly. Everyone who comes, young or old, from America, has to adjust. He was able to do it better than most I have seen. One more year in Europe, and he would be a star. I don't know if the NBA feels the same way."

Jennings should find out soon. His agent, Bill Duffy, said Jennings will begin team workouts this week. He's targeting four teams at the moment: the Kings (No. 4), Wizards (No. 5), Wolves (No. 6), Warriors (No. 7) and Knicks (No. 8). If Jennings doesn't get the positive feedback he's looking for, he'll backfill with a few more later lottery teams like the Bucks, Pacers and Suns.

If just one GM in the top 10 falls in love, Jennings will look like a genius. He skipped the college basketball factory, earned millions of dollars and still found his way into the lottery. If he falls, he may close the door to other prospects searching to do the same thing.

That's a lot of pressure and responsibility for a 19-year-old. But if Jennings handles things as well as he did in Europe, he may be more prophet than fool.

Chad Ford covers the NBA for ESPN.com.

themayhem87
06-09-2009, 05:52 PM
your the man bud

owl
06-09-2009, 06:04 PM
I really don't see the point of taking Jennings. We have TJ who has basically the same attributes but has years of experience. Taking Jennings is a step backwards at least for
a couple years.

idioteque
06-09-2009, 06:47 PM
I kind of agree to a point with this statement ... EXCEPT .. I don't think they should be paid to play persay , I most definitely believe that they should get some MASSIVE (like say for instance 80%) debt relief from their college tuition they have to pay to go to school..
That way they have alot of incentive to stay in school and get their education, without the major pressure of worrying about not being able to pay the bills of actually being able to stay in school..

Now I would be all for that ..

They don't have to pay tuition, they are on athletic scholarship.

Infinite MAN_force
06-09-2009, 06:48 PM
I really don't see the point of taking Jennings. We have TJ who has basically the same attributes but has years of experience. Taking Jennings is a step backwards at least for
a couple years.

Jennings is not as undersized as TJ, and also has much greater potential as a passer. Flynn or Lawson are much closer to TJ than Jennings. Jenning's talent level is just much higher than those three.

CableKC
06-09-2009, 07:02 PM
Jennings clearly has some very positive skills that he brings to the table but at the same time bring some "negatives" that he has to "unlearn". In all honesty, if we are to stop there......he's no different then any other young prospect that has a lot of upside but clearly has some time to properly develop into the Player that he can "potentially" be.

But what seperates him from any other "prospect PGs" like Holiday or Evans is how his European "experience" affected him and whether he took away enough to carry on his expected continued development at a much more difficult level. As suggested in the article, "learning on the job in one of the top European Teams" is way different then playing in College. One can "project" what a player like Holiday or Evans can do in the NBA based off of comparisons to comprable College Players that have "walked down the same path" while playing in College. Whereas with Jennings, it's a little bit harder to evaluate since he went to Europe to start his Basketball development right out of High school....which IMHO is a little bit different then Players that went to Europe after a few years of development under some College Program ( like Anthony Parker, for example ).

For now, without learning more about his workouts with other Teams, I'm still sticking with the notion that he's a player with upside but won't immediately be able to contribute since he appears to have a lot to learn....which means that I would hesitantly "pass" on him. As the article suggests, Jennings is an enigma.....he just needs to show more to Teams scouting him in order for any of us to form a more concreate opinion of him ( not that it would matter....even if he falls out of the top 10...he won't get past NJ, Milwaukee or Charlotte ).

Anthem
06-09-2009, 10:43 PM
If he's there at #13, I'll be thrilled if we take him and disappointed if we don't.

MillerTime
06-10-2009, 12:44 AM
If he's there at #13, I'll be thrilled if we take him and disappointed if we don't.

I would also be happy if we took him but I think he could be traded like how we traded Bayless, of even try trading Ford on draft night.

Anthem
06-10-2009, 08:25 AM
I would also be happy if we took him but I think he could be traded like how we traded Bayless, of even try trading Ford on draft night.
Works for me!

Major Cold
11-17-2009, 09:34 AM
:bump: cause only 5 rookies scored over 50 points in their first season. And all of them are in the Hall of Fame. I am not saying Jennings is a future HOFer, but he is not a bust. And does not need 5 years of developing.

timid
11-17-2009, 01:15 PM
:bump: cause only 5 rookies scored over 50 points in their first season. And all of them are in the Hall of Fame. I am not saying Jennings is a future HOFer, but he is not a bust. And does not need 5 years of developing.

I agree...........

Infinite MAN_force
11-17-2009, 01:55 PM
It amazes me how people were so convinced Jennings was a knucklehead based on over analyzing a few off hand statements on a 19 year olds twitter account. Also the TJ Ford comparisons were laughable. I just think there was a certain segment of people who thought he HAD to be a knucklehead because he skipped college for Europe... well the early results appear to indicate that may have helped more than it hurt in terms of "NBA readiness".

For me, the fact that he accepted a bench role, sometimes DNCPs, without complaining or whining about his loss of draft stock told me everything I needed to know. The kid had a good head on his shoulders. I always thought he was the second or third best player in the draft talentwise anyway. Looks like I was wrong, he was probably first.

Speed
11-17-2009, 02:30 PM
Jennings is now the poster child for forgoing college completely and going overseas. I wonder what Stern will do, now.

BillS
11-17-2009, 02:31 PM
I think going overseas to develop for kids who have no business in college is the right thing to do. If Stern doesn't like it he can make the NBDL into a true minor league.

Hicks
11-17-2009, 03:18 PM
Maybe it was attitude, maybe it was doubt, maybe it was something else, but I'm fairly confident from everything I've read/heard that had Milwaukee not drafted him, he was headed for a nose dive to the bottom 1/3rd of the round. Suggests something is/was up. Doesn't mean we know one way or the other, but it's interesting.

Chewy
11-17-2009, 04:16 PM
Jennings is now the poster child for forgoing college completely and going overseas. I wonder what Stern will do, now.

My opinion on all of this is that Stern doesn't care, i don't think the one year rule was made to help NCAA but only for the good of the team's scouting and player readiness coming into the NBA.

Speed
11-17-2009, 04:22 PM
I don't believe this is true, but I'll say it anyway. Jamaal Tinsley looked like the best point guard in the league his 1st month as a rookie. Granted, he didn't score 55 in a game, though. All I'm saying, I'd guess Jennings isn't quite this good, but who knows.

Eindar
11-17-2009, 06:31 PM
I don't really know one way or the other if Brandon Jennings is a knucklehead. Time will tell. But just because someone looks great doesn't mean they're a great player for your team. Just ask anyone who has played extensive time with Ron Artest, Terrell Owens, or Barry Bonds.

Anthem
11-17-2009, 11:34 PM
I don't believe this is true, but I'll say it anyway. Jamaal Tinsley looked like the best point guard in the league his 1st month as a rookie. Granted, he didn't score 55 in a game, though. All I'm saying, I'd guess Jennings isn't quite this good, but who knows.
He had 23 assists, though. Against Michael Jordan.

danman
11-18-2009, 12:18 PM
Speed has a good point about Tin. The NBA will figure you out and take away your best move. After 6 weeks or so of regular play, there is a "book" on you.

In Tin's case, they just sagged off him. He'd couldn't hurt you with a pull up jumper or the 3. He'd get frustrated and make bad decisions.

We'll see on Jennings. The book isn't out yet. Kid sure looks good right now, he's quick as hell.

Speed
11-18-2009, 12:21 PM
He had 23 assists, though. Against Michael Jordan.


Followed by me buying a Tinsley ball cap and thinking they had their point guard for the next decade. Ahhh memories.

count55
11-18-2009, 12:26 PM
Followed by me buying a Tinsley ball cap and thinking they had their point guard for the next decade. Ahhh memories.

I think I actually did the same thing. I know the first Tinsley thing I bought was a ball cap.

I should have known something was amiss when the strap broke within two weeks.

Speed
11-18-2009, 12:34 PM
I think I actually did the same thing. I know the first Tinsley thing I bought was a ball cap.

I should have known something was amiss when the strap broke within two weeks.


Ha, it had to be the same cap, my strap broke too. Worn blue with the #11 and something else on it. I threw it away in disgust a couple of years ago. If I had to guess, it was made by And One .............. :D

count55
11-18-2009, 12:43 PM
Ha, it had to be the same cap, my strap broke too. Worn blue with the #11 and something else on it. I threw it away in disgust a couple of years ago. If I had to guess, it was made by And One .............. :D

My was the yellow version of the cap, and It had the #11 on the crown with his name, I think. I'm sure it's still in my hall closet, in a box with about 100 other caps I never wear.

Since86
11-18-2009, 02:20 PM
Jennings is now the poster child for forgoing college completely and going overseas. I wonder what Stern will do, now.

Not really. What gets lost is that Jennings was ineligible to play in college due to grades. Going overseas was the only option he really had.

It's not like he said "F*** YOU COLLEGE! I'm going overseas and getting paid." His first choice was Arizona.

Speed
11-18-2009, 02:35 PM
Not really. What gets lost is that Jennings was ineligible to play in college due to grades. Going overseas was the only option he really had.

It's not like he said "F*** YOU COLLEGE! I'm going overseas and getting paid." His first choice was Arizona.


Good point, so maybe not the poster boy, but it does open the door alot wider.

Since86
11-18-2009, 03:01 PM
I think the lack of coverage he got, and how he struggled, actually closed it up more. He was basically non-existent for a year.

The risk of getting hurt and never playing ever again is VERY small. Especially today with the gains in major surgeries like micro-fracture, etc. Going to college keeps players in the spotlight. Playing one year and being the man on your team in front of US fans, top NBA scouts, and college analysts keep them in the fore front of people's minds. Why go overseas to a completely different culture only to sit the bench and not get much production like Jennings?

I think we'll only see kids, like Jennings, that can't get into school or are having some difficulties gettingin , go overseas. Big name players who can get into big name schools are gonna stay stateside. IMHO.

Wage
11-18-2009, 06:02 PM
I think the lack of coverage he got, and how he struggled, actually closed it up more. He was basically non-existent for a year.


I agree with this completely.

If we had watched him put on shows like he has in the pros in Arizona, he likely comes into the NBA as the number 1 pick. He also likely has Nike and Adidas camping in his front lawn with blank checks.

KennerLeaguer
11-18-2009, 06:50 PM
It amazes me how people were so convinced Jennings was a knucklehead based on over analyzing a few off hand statements on a 19 year olds twitter account. Also the TJ Ford comparisons were laughable. I just think there was a certain segment of people who thought he HAD to be a knucklehead because he skipped college for Europe... well the early results appear to indicate that may have helped more than it hurt in terms of "NBA readiness".



Many who kept up with Jennings considered him a knucklehead for other reasons than his twitter comments. You just never knew about that kid. And by the way he only went to Europe because he couldn't pass the required tests. People make him out to be some intentional trailblazer who tried to lead his peers down a new path. In reality he was a kid who came across as too lazy to prepare for SATs and ended up coming up short every time for his required score. He also came across a ballhog on the court and a bit of a jerk in interviews.

That being said he is playing fantastic and I'm recording the replay of his 55 point game right now on NBA TV. I'm happy he is playing for a franchise that needed a boost.

Chewy
11-18-2009, 06:59 PM
Many who kept up with Jennings considered him a knucklehead for other reasons than his twitter comments. You just never knew about that kid. And by the way he only went to Europe because he couldn't pass the required tests. People make him out to be some intentional trailblazer who tried to lead his peers down a new path. In reality he was a kid who came across as too lazy to prepare for SATs and ended up coming up short every time for his required score. He also came across a ballhog on the court and a bit of a jerk in interviews.

That being said he is playing fantastic and I'm recording the replay of his 55 point game right now on NBA TV. I'm happy he is playing for a franchise that needed a boost.

This is not entirely true

Jennings did not receive a qualifying score in his first SAT. His second test showed such a jump in score that the NCAA flagged it, forcing the Compton, Calif., native to take the test a third time.
"He passed the test already — they decided to red-flag it," Williams said. "It's all on the NCAA. It's their world. We're just living in it."

http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/related/247016

Anthem
11-18-2009, 09:39 PM
So how'd he do the third time?

Was the second time a cheat?

GO!!!!!
11-18-2009, 09:43 PM
Good Q's, what was the time difference between the tests too, when can you sit them ? once a month, year ?

Trader Joe
11-18-2009, 09:56 PM
I think you can sit the SAT as often as you want.

Kuq_e_Zi91
11-19-2009, 12:04 AM
I think you can sit the SAT as often as you want.

Yep. You can take it as many times as you want, but they schedule them only once a month.

Jennings had 19 on 6-13 (3-4 from three, 4-5 on free throws), 8 assists, and 4 rebounds tonight. He also had 8 turnovers, but still managed to look really good. Another win for the Bucks. It was the Nets, I know... but Jennings made sure the Bucks beat a team they should have, especially at home.