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Placebo
05-28-2009, 08:43 PM
http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsider/archives/2009/05/checking_in_fro.html

May 28, 2009
Checking in from the pre-draft camp
Posted by Mike Wells


CHICAGO - The draft is still four weeks away and there will be plenty of rumors floating around in that time span, but early talk is that the Pacers could be looking at taking a point guard.

That's the word coming from North Carolina's Ty Lawson and VCU's Eric Maynor, who both could be available when the blue and gold pick at No. 13.

"They talked to my agent and they said they need a point guard to come in," Lawson said this afternoon. "They've got T.J. Ford and Jarrett Jack, but I don't know if they're happy with them. They said they need one to come in."

Lawson, who is listed at 5-11, will workout for the Pacers at some point in the coming weeks.

Maynor, who averaged 22.4 points and 6.2 assists at VCU last season, said he was listed at 6-3 with his shoes on when he was measured recently. He fits the mold of a big point guard that Pacers coach Jim O'Brien talked about having.

"I've already got a workout set up with Indiana," he said. "They are looking at taking a point guard. I haven't really had much contact with them, but my agent talked to them."

Another player to keep your eye on is Memphis' Tyreke Evans.

Word around here is that the Pacers may be willing to trade up to get him. Evans has been projected to go in the top 10 in several mock drafts.

The question surrounding the 6-6 Evans is whether he's a point guard or shooting guard.

"I'm a combo guard," he said. "If I have the ball in my hands I make things happen. I can bring the ball up the court or catch it on the wing. The NBA is my game because there's a lot of one-on-one action. Guys can't double (team) because guys can shoot. I think I'll be great playing in an NBA system."

You have to wonder if the Pacers will let Jack walk this summer if they end up drafting a point guard in the first round.

I haven't seen this posted. I'd personally love Evans to wear blue-gold. He might provide us with the talent upgrade we need badly. I don't want Lawson and I think 13th is too high for Maynor. For Evans we might have to sneak in the top 5.

pwee31
05-28-2009, 08:51 PM
Guess this explains why so many mocks have us taking a PG being Lawson, Flynn, Maynor or Holiday.

I find this very intriguing. Not sure how this will make Jack, Ford and Diener feel. Granted it's just a rumor, but you never want to hear multiple agents say a team is looking to draft at your position.

This sounds like the start of another interesting offseason in Pacerland.

HC
05-28-2009, 08:55 PM
I think I would rather the Pacers try and package TJ to trade up rather than let JJ walk. Or perhaps JJ has already went on the record behind the scenes as saying he won't be back.

QuickRelease
05-28-2009, 08:56 PM
I don't want to be that guy, but is anyone bothered by Tyreke's past red flag. It seems to be just one, but it's a biggie. More because it might seem that there are some questionable characters in his past, and you have to wonder how much he's willing to distance himself from that. The last guy from Memphis didn't handle that too well.

Shade
05-28-2009, 09:15 PM
We aren't going to re-sign Jack, are we?

pwee31
05-28-2009, 09:18 PM
This really has my mind racing. For some reason I don't think Jack's the guy on the way out.

I'm not sure which thread it was in, but remember the post talking about Granger being in touch with Jack and talking about what they need to work on for the upcoming season.

A few sparked conversation as to why Granger wasn't contacting Ford to discuss the offseason plans?

There's also the mention of Ty Lawson whom the Pacers seemed to be ot on last year until he got injured and pulled out of the draft.

I personally can't see the Pacers having Ford, Lawson, and probably Diener as their 3 PGs. Talk about your lollipop guild.

My guess is that Ford would be moved for veteran frontcourt help, and perhaps extra picks.

Jack would be a cheaper starting PG option, and then whomever's drafted would get the backup role.

vnzla81
05-28-2009, 09:18 PM
We aren't going to re-sign Jack, are we?

who knows maybe Diener is not coming back or he is getting traded.

d_c
05-28-2009, 09:19 PM
We aren't going to re-sign Jack, are we?

The fact that you guys are looking at guards says more about where the strength of this draft is than whether or not you're going to re-sign Jack.

If you're taking BAP, it's way more likely to be a guard.

Shade
05-28-2009, 09:34 PM
If we trade TJ, I'm never buying another jersey again.

pwee31
05-28-2009, 09:40 PM
The fact that you guys are looking at guards says more about where the strength of this draft is than whether or not you're going to re-sign Jack.

If you're taking BAP, it's way more likely to be a guard.

I understand taking the best player available, but if Jack is resigned and we draft a PG, that's 5 under contract with Tinsley and Diener picking up his contract.

If we're going take a guard, I understand Evans (hopefully no character issues) who's 6'6 and can defend and play multiple positions.

Especially since we're on looking at 2 healthy wings going into the season in Granger and Rush.

I think we'll see a couple more clever trades for Mr. Bird

count55
05-28-2009, 09:40 PM
We aren't going to re-sign Jack, are we?


The fact that you guys are looking at guards says more about where the strength of this draft is than whether or not you're going to re-sign Jack.

If you're taking BAP, it's way more likely to be a guard.

As always, d_c with the voice of reason.

Both O'Brien and Bird said that they liked TJ and JJ, but they also both acknowledged that they did not think that either was the dominant point guard that they'd like to have.

It is certainly possible that JJ may get too expensive for us. However, the fact that we're looking at PG's in a PG-heavy draft doesn't necessarily mean anything.

I think this is especially true because I think the only big guy of interest, DeJuan Blair, is going to move up, and it's likely that the wings would be a reach at that point in the draft.

count55
05-28-2009, 09:45 PM
I understand taking the best player available, but if Jack is resigned and we draft a PG, that's 5 under contract with Tinsley and Diener picking up his contract.

If we're going take a guard, I understand Evans (hopefully no character issues) who's 6'6 and can defend and play multiple positions.

Especially since we're on looking at 2 healthy wings going into the season in Granger and Rush.

I think we'll see a couple more clever trades for Mr. Bird

I understand that Tinsley is under contract, but he cannot be considered in any way, shape, or form when you're looking at the depth chart.

It's also possible that they may see a guy like Evans, Maynor, or Lawson as a longer-term solution.

Finally, they probably are of the opinion that Diener was basically maxed out in terms of ability and utility, and they may prefer to have a younger player in that role.

I do think Bird is still looking to balance the roster, but PG's are basically what are available. Jack will see some run at the 2 next year, and hopefully we can get 30 minutes a night out of Rush.

Shade
05-28-2009, 09:48 PM
We have too many holes to fill to be sitting on 4 point guards, though. Something's gotta give.

QuickRelease
05-28-2009, 09:58 PM
We have too many holes to fill to be sitting on 4 point guards, though. Something's gotta give.

Evans would fill one of the holes, and possibly kill 2 birds with one stone. I think he brings even more than Marquis did, bringing the added ability to play point effectively if needed. I would see him being a big time plug in one of the aforementioned holes!

count55
05-28-2009, 10:02 PM
We have too many holes to fill to be sitting on 4 point guards, though. Something's gotta give.

Yeah, but a couple of things:

-If they make a play for Tyreke Evans, that could do three things: (1) Possibly provide a long term answer at the point, (2) Provide a depth at both the point and the wing, and (3) clear out somebody (during the trade). Drafting Evans does not preclude re-signing Jack, and actually, I'd think the two moves would make for a nice summer.
-If they don't get Evans, they have to pick somebody at 13, and it seems likely that four or five of the top half dozen prospects at that point will be PG's. If they can't fill a hole, then they need assets, and they should take BPA and see what they can do to fill the holes later.

Here's my opinion on re-signing Jack: Unless he gets out of our price range (read: more than $4.5 to $5.0 mm to start), we need to sign him. Drafting Maynor, Lawson, or Flynn with the intent of not re-signing Jack is, in my opinion, foolish and a step backwards for the team.

So, we may lose Jack, but I don't think for a moment that us bringing in PG's means that losing Jack is the plan.

count55
05-28-2009, 10:06 PM
We have too many holes to fill to be sitting on 4 point guards, though. Something's gotta give.

...or is this just some clever early Darksider campaigning?

Trophy
05-28-2009, 10:09 PM
I understand taking the best player available, but if Jack is resigned and we draft a PG, that's 5 under contract with Tinsley and Diener picking up his contract.

If we're going take a guard, I understand Evans (hopefully no character issues) who's 6'6 and can defend and play multiple positions.

Especially since we're on looking at 2 healthy wings going into the season in Granger and Rush.

I think we'll see a couple more clever trades for Mr. Bird

I see another blockbuster draft night deal happening this year. I'll be waiting for it.

If any player selected, Bird would go out and trade for Tyreke Evans no doubt. I can see him doing something that we did with Portland last year. Our pick and Ford for Evans and a maybe a big defender from them.

I don't know. That's something I'd like to see.

pwee31
05-28-2009, 10:10 PM
I understand that Tinsley is under contract, but he cannot be considered in any way, shape, or form when you're looking at the depth chart.

It's also possible that they may see a guy like Evans, Maynor, or Lawson as a longer-term solution.

Finally, they probably are of the opinion that Diener was basically maxed out in terms of ability and utility, and they may prefer to have a younger player in that role.

I do think Bird is still looking to balance the roster, but PG's are basically what are available. Jack will see some run at the 2 next year, and hopefully we can get 30 minutes a night out of Rush.

You don't have to count Tinsley towards the depth chart. The facts are that you're still paying perhaps 4 PGs contracts and it's possible a 5th.

This is while paying 2 centers, and 1 PFs if you don't count McRoberts

2 SF in Granger and Dunleavy and 1 SG in Rush (Dunleavy could be here as well)

Granted Diener hasn't made a decision, Jack hasn't been resigned, and there's still questions surrounding Quis, Graham and McRoberts.

There's a lot of gaps in the roster, and PG seems to be in the best shape as of now.

Of course there's a lot of unknowns. But looking at the knowns... who knows :hmm:

Placebo
05-28-2009, 10:28 PM
What if we draft Blair and JOB plays Blair at C?
I remember JOB was talking about how the NBA was going towards surrounding a dominant big with a bunch of shooters like Orlando does. Blair is undersized but really wide and not terribly slow for his size. Playing him and Hibbert together would be suicidal and we all know that's not JOB style at all. Sure, Blair is short but he has really long arms and he held on his own against taller C's at college. It's hard to see him as a 4 because he doesn't have a jumper whatsoever. I like Blair more than Lawson, Teague, Flynn and Maynor for us.

Well, Evans would be great because I am not sure if Granger-Rush duo will take us to the next level. Look at the conference finals: Cavs have LeBron, Mo (and they are on the verge of eliminating), Lakers have Kobe-Gasol, Orlando has Dwight-Turk-Lewis, Nuggets has Melo-Billups. I mean I love Granger-Rush as our 2-3 combo but is it really enough for the next level? I mean even LeBron clearly needs more talent around him to win the whole thing. Now, is Granger-Evans enough for the next level? I am not sure but TE is a very promising and TALENTED young player.

BlueNGold
05-28-2009, 10:29 PM
We have too many holes to fill to be sitting on 4 point guards, though. Something's gotta give.

Maybe I'm missing something...but I count 5.

Tinsley
TJ
Jack
Diener
Draft Pick

Edit: ok...I see Count55's rationale. I still consider Tinsley another reason we have so many holes.

pianoman
05-28-2009, 10:32 PM
I'd be okay with bringing in a pg, trading ford, and resigning jack and diener. There will be a way to get a big man this summer, I'm sure of it.

vnzla81
05-28-2009, 10:36 PM
I'd be okay with bringing in a pg, trading ford, and resigning jack and diener. There will be a way to get a big man this summer, I'm sure of it.

I agree, they could bring Kaman or another PF/C

thunderbird1245
05-28-2009, 10:43 PM
Everybody needs to settle down a bit.

Draft nuggets like this mean nothing, as teams all over the league lie to hide their true intentions.

This is just as likely to be subterfuge and smoke and mirrors as anything.

I also don't believe for a second that the Knicks have Stephon Curry in their sites either. That looks like a typical Donnie Walsh head fake to me to hide who he really wants.

Having said that, I do think the Pacers like Lawson, and they should....I did too for the most part in my review of him. I haven't begun to study Evans yet and I've just begun to work on Maynor, so my reviews of them will come eventually here at some point.

As a side note, I wrote a few weeks ago that I thought it was much more likely than not that the Pacers would keep Ford and let Jack go, which I would be ok with although I know most of the people on this board like better.

But I've changed my mind about that, for various reasons that I hope to write about this weekend at some point.

Tbird

pianoman
05-28-2009, 10:44 PM
I'm gonna say we will get Tyson Chandler this summer. I wouldn't guarantee it, but we will pursue him vigorously. He'd be a great addition.

Hicks
05-28-2009, 10:52 PM
I'm gonna say we will get Tyson Chandler this summer. I wouldn't guarantee it, but we will pursue him vigorously. He'd be a great addition.

I'm not so sure about that. I think there's a reason OKC broke up the trade they had for him after looking at his medical information. I'm suspecting he's heading towards a downward slope.

vnzla81
05-28-2009, 10:52 PM
I'm gonna say we will get Tyson Chandler this summer. I wouldn't guarantee it, but we will pursue him vigorously. He'd be a great addition.

His offense is not good enough I rather get Kaman, Chandler needs a good point guard to make him look good and the Pacers don't have that yet.


The perfect trade for me would be:

Baron Davis 11.5mil and Kaman 9.5 for Tinsley 7mil, Foster 6mil and Murphy, the starting team would look like this:
PG: Baron
SG: Rush
SF: Danny
PF: Kaman
C: Hibbert. I am not sure if the Pacers have the money to this though. (count 55 help me.........)

Coop
05-28-2009, 11:12 PM
I don't want Baron anywhere close to this team.

vnzla81
05-28-2009, 11:19 PM
I don't want Baron anywhere close to this team.

you are not going to tell me that I would not be nasty if the pacers get a player like that? that guy is a beast when playing up tempo and I am sure that JOB would let him run as much as he wants, not like Dunleavy trying to control him. He could make this team one of the best teams in the east, easy.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALBvkuJT6wc

Hicks
05-28-2009, 11:49 PM
I wonder how the locker room would be with Baron and Dunleavy Jr.?

vnzla81
05-28-2009, 11:51 PM
I wonder how the locker room would be with Baron and Dunleavy Jr.?

Did they have any issues in GS? I think that Baron is a good teammate everybody seems to like him.

Coop
05-28-2009, 11:54 PM
you are not going to tell me that I would not be nasty if the pacers get a player like that? that guy is a beast when playing up tempo and I am sure that JOB would let him run as much as he wants, not like Dunleavy trying to control him. He could make this team one of the best teams in the east, easy.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALBvkuJT6wc


There's no question the guy has talent. He carried Golden State a few years back. My problem with him is that he slacks off when things get tough. He disappeared last year once it was obvious the Clips were going to be bad again. You learn a lot about a players character when they are stuck on bad teams, and Baron has been notorious for giving less than 100% when he's stuck in a bad situation. It's really the same reason why I wouldn't want Vince Carter on this team. You want the guys that are mentally tough enough to push through the difficult stretches.

I feel like he's also on the downslope of his career. He's only 30, but the amount of nagging injuries and time he misses each year raises a lot of questions about his commitment in my opinion. Even if he returned to his GS form and put forth the effort to help the team, he might only have 1-2 solid years before he just became another huge contract. That's not a chance I would be willing to take now that we have finally dug ourselves out of cap hell.

Anthem
05-28-2009, 11:55 PM
I think I would rather the Pacers try and package TJ to trade up rather than let JJ walk.
I think that's pretty much universal.

Anthem
05-28-2009, 11:56 PM
As always, d_c with the voice of reason.

Both O'Brien and Bird said that they liked TJ and JJ, but they also both acknowledged that they did not think that either was the dominant point guard that they'd like to have.
Sure, that's reasonable. But do you see any of these three being a dominant point guard?

focused444
05-28-2009, 11:59 PM
as entertaining as baron is... and as much of a leader he was in dismantling the mavs in the playoffs...he is too injury prone...high risk, high reward move is unnecessary at this stage of building a young healthy team nucleus...

if i was the pacers i wouldn't show my hand to lawson...

t bird is right...there will be so much talk these next few weeks...still a ton of workouts left...

either way i am truly excited right now, and i am hoping we pull something smart off...

go pacers...

count55
05-29-2009, 12:04 AM
Sure, that's reasonable. But do you see any of these three being a dominant point guard?

Maaaaaaaaybe Evans, but that wasn't really the point. The point was basically there was overreaction to the fact that the Pacers are looking at PG's, and a lot of it hinged on comments made by Lawson...who hasn't exactly had to file a restraining order against MENSA.

Everybody knows that there are holes to fill, but it's a month before the draft, and they're bringing in the players that are rated around their pick. It just so happens that a lot of them are PG's.

Doddage
05-29-2009, 04:00 AM
I would definitely be thrilled if we attempted to trade up and draft Evans, but I'm not sure where that would leave us in terms of how much depth we're left with. That said, I'd be willing to take the chance on him, provided the deal isn't ridiculous to get him.

Speed
05-29-2009, 07:45 AM
Who is drafting behind the Pacers that would really want a Point Guard? I think that is maybe what these little tidbits are all about, imo, or at least that could be what is going on.

Speed
05-29-2009, 07:50 AM
Evans doesn't make sense to me. It doesn't fit Bird's draft idea from last year at least.

Evans is young and inexperienced. Jarret Jack I think was widely appreciated by the front office, coaches, and players, so if the price is even close to right, I think they keep him. Evans would be kinda duplication, to me.

I think you'd have to move up to 5 to get Evans for sure and the price would likely be high, unless Etan Thomas, they think, can be a rotation big man that is missing, but then again does the contract fit the 10-11 scenario of having dramatic freedom? I don't know his length of contract and I've thought he's had injury problems. At the very least Etan Thomas played a limited way on a team that would need his style worse than the Pacers did, so what's that say.

I'm rambling, but this sounds like a smoke screen to me, I'm just saying.

Major Cold
05-29-2009, 07:57 AM
Baron is Mr. Fickle. He gave up on the Hornets and on the Clipps. If the Pacer nation rail on Tinsley, imagine what would happen when a player pulls a Carter on us.

Major Cold
05-29-2009, 08:00 AM
I am with Speed. Why would team officials be so adamant on replacing Ford or Jack when Jack needs to be resigned and Ford traded? So either they are not worrying about resigning Jack or they told Jack not to listen to draft chatter.

Hicks
05-29-2009, 08:07 AM
Did they have any issues in GS? I think that Baron is a good teammate everybody seems to like him.

Don't know about their time in GS together, but since then I'm pretty sure Baron has come to dislike Dunleavy Sr...

Unclebuck
05-29-2009, 08:25 AM
My guess is the Pacers want to re-sign Jack keep him and play him as the starter and bring in a rookie point guard to back him up - with the idea that within a year or two the rookie point guard can become the starter and hopefully the type of point guard who can lead a 55 win team. One thing about point guards - there is a long history of excellent point guards being taken outside of the top ten.

My guess is the Pacers want and plan to trade TJ Ford. He doesn't fit into O'Brien's offensive system.


I'm very confident in saying this is what the Pacers want to do this summer - but who knows if they can work all this out.

Major Cold
05-29-2009, 09:16 AM
But could TJs trade value go down if they replace him with a rookie? I am guessing that they would not advertise so blatantly if that were the guess.

DrFife
05-29-2009, 09:37 AM
My guess is the Pacers want to re-sign Jack keep him and play him as the starter and bring in a rookie point guard to back him up - with the idea that within a year or two the rookie point guard can become the starter and hopefully the type of point guard who can lead a 55 win team. One thing about point guards - there is a long history of excellent point guards being taken outside of the top ten.

My guess is the Pacers want and plan to trade TJ Ford. He doesn't fit into O'Brien's offensive system.


I'm very confident in saying this is what the Pacers want to do this summer - but who knows if they can work all this out.

I completely agree, UB.

In fact, I'm wondering about the plethora of PGs creating a "buffer" for us -- one that makes TPTB comfortable in trading down. Say, for example, that they already have tentative plans to trade TJ, and that they'd be happy selecting either Lawson or Flynn or Maynor or Teague as their new PG. (I included all four just to emphasize my point. No pun intended.) They then could trade down and get one of their guys.

Now, on the supply side, there's one person who sticks out to me. Not a point guard; a center. BJ Mullens.

Mullens is the kind of talent in scarcity that teams end up stampeding over one another to trade up for. He's raw yet talented, so it's eminently predictable that there will be a variety of opinions on where he "should" be selected. My answer is Minnesota at #18 ... which means pressure will mount for teams to draft him before then. We just might end up benefiting from this supply/demand mix.

Spirit
05-29-2009, 10:17 AM
There's also the mention of Ty Lawson whom the Pacers seemed to be ot on last year until he got injured and pulled out of the draft.

He got a DUI and pulled out of the draft if I remember correctly

OakMoses
05-29-2009, 10:31 AM
The fact that you guys are looking at guards says more about where the strength of this draft is than whether or not you're going to re-sign Jack.

If you're taking BAP, it's way more likely to be a guard.


Everybody needs to settle down a bit.

Draft nuggets like this mean nothing, as teams all over the league lie to hide their true intentions.

This is just as likely to be subterfuge and smoke and mirrors as anything.

I also don't believe for a second that the Knicks have Stephon Curry in their sites either. That looks like a typical Donnie Walsh head fake to me to hide who he really wants.



I think these two posts are right on the money.

PG is clearly the strength of this draft, so it makes perfect sense that we're looking at those guys, no matter what we think of Ford and Jack.

I agree with Tbird that this is likely a smokescreen, but I really like the idea of moving up to get Tyreke Evans. If he can be an NBA PG, he's a homerun pick and a near top-flight talent. If he can't, he'll still be a very useful scoring guard.

I also like it on a purely philosophical level. You identify the guy you want and you go after him. You don't just stay put and see who falls to you. I think Bird has a history of that philosophy. He did it with Rush, even though he traded down to do it. He also did it with James White, even though that didn't turn out so well.

OakMoses
05-29-2009, 10:33 AM
My guess is the Pacers want to re-sign Jack keep him and play him as the starter and bring in a rookie point guard to back him up - with the idea that within a year or two the rookie point guard can become the starter and hopefully the type of point guard who can lead a 55 win team. One thing about point guards - there is a long history of excellent point guards being taken outside of the top ten.

My guess is the Pacers want and plan to trade TJ Ford. He doesn't fit into O'Brien's offensive system.


I'm very confident in saying this is what the Pacers want to do this summer - but who knows if they can work all this out.

You could very well be right about their intentions, but it may be easier said than done unless you're willing to make a bad trade, which I don't think Bird is willing to do.

naptownmenace
05-29-2009, 11:09 AM
If the Pacers can get Tyreke Evans that would be a major piece to add. Something about him reminds me of Derrick Rose - not necessarily the athleticism but the ability to dominate a game and break down defenses. He's also a great rebounder for a guard and an above average passer like Rose.

I'm not sure about his defense because I haven't seen him play enough to make a clear statement about it but he has the tools to be a good defender because of his great size and quickness.

Maybe Washington or New York would be willing to trade down. If Larry can pull the trigger on a trade to get him, that'd be awesome.

pwee31
05-29-2009, 11:25 AM
He got a DUI and pulled out of the draft if I remember correctly

True, but I believe he also hurt his ankle as well

Naptown_Seth
05-29-2009, 11:57 AM
Here's my opinion on re-signing Jack: Unless he gets out of our price range (read: more than $4.5 to $5.0 mm to start), we need to sign him. Drafting Maynor, Lawson, or Flynn with the intent of not re-signing Jack is, in my opinion, foolish and a step backwards for the team
I agree.

Maynor is the only size guy and the only one close to a really true passing PG. He's got decent handles but just didn't show great vision. That's my issue with him. Love his floater, that'll help him a lot. If you can expand his passing ability enough you could make him into something, and as a passing PG I think he's open to improving that area.

Flynn and Lawson, what do they do that TJ Ford doesn't do better? Nothing. So don't even waste your time there. Even if you trade TJ there is a reason you are doing that rather than moving Jack, just like there was a reason he was better off the bench.

Evans makes sense as a talent, but HUGE DANGER is lurking with him after the Calipari Rose stuff leaked out. Even his cocky attitude worries me when paired with the general situation. Given what we learned about who was around the Memphis program when Shawne Williams was there I think the team honestly does need to worry about it in this case.


I'm with Tbird - total decoy. Just doesn't add up quite right. Trading TJ and drafting a new PG, sure, but you have to get one that fixes a situation. So if it's a decoy then who do they really want? Maybe just fishing for deals, as in "I'm looking to draft PG so call me about the ones I already have"?

I do think they need to move off that 13th spot, up or down doesn't matter. There are some talents higher up that could help and there's better value down lower. I mean even Lawson, at 13??? That's a reach IMO. Same with Flynn or Maynor.

And Evans is extremely unlikely to be there at 13.

danman
05-29-2009, 12:47 PM
I don't think drafting a PG or a combo is a smokescreen. The need is a big who can defend away from the basket. As far as I can tell, there's no one like that at #13. You don't reach to fill a need when you can't even make the playoffs in the East.

My prediction:

Draft a PG (guessing Lawson)
Trade TJ for the big
JJ gets an offer we won't match
Marquis likewise
Pacers sit tight for another year and then try to deal expirings.

JJ may end up staying, but he's not a building block and we're at least two years from contending. Simons don't have the cheddar they once did, so... we may actually need another PG, but super cheap. Perhaps Diener or some FA.

pwee31
05-29-2009, 12:55 PM
Yeah, I'm starting to feel as if the Pacers are just testing the waters. Getting a feel for what everyone else is wanting to do, while blowing a little smoke, to keep folks off our trail.

CableKC
05-29-2009, 01:03 PM
I don't think drafting a PG or a combo is a smokescreen. The need is a big who can defend away from the basket. As far as I can tell, there's no one like that at #13. You don't reach to fill a need when you can't even make the playoffs in the East.

My prediction:

Draft a PG (guessing Lawson)
Trade TJ for the big
JJ gets an offer we won't match
Marquis likewise
Pacers sit tight for another year and then try to deal expirings.

JJ may end up staying, but he's not a building block and we're at least two years from contending. Simons don't have the cheddar they once did, so... we may actually need another PG, but super cheap. Perhaps Diener or some FA.
So, what would be your PG rotation? Lawson and Diener?

If we trade Ford...then I don't see us letting Jack walk away in FA.

Trophy
05-29-2009, 03:14 PM
I found this on ESPN.com under NBA rumors.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features/rumors?&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2ffeatures%2frumors

Scroll down a little and you'll see just the title if you're not an insider member.

Pacers
05-29-2009, 03:27 PM
For those without Insider access:


Early talk is that the Pacers could be looking at taking a point guard. That's the word coming from North Carolina's Ty Lawson and VCU's Eric Maynor, who both could be available when the blue and gold pick at No. 13.
"They talked to my agent and they said they need a point guard to come in," Lawson said this afternoon. "They've got T.J. Ford (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1979) and Jarrett Jack (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2768), but I don't know if they're happy with them. They said they need one to come in."
"I've already got a workout set up with Indiana," Maynor said. "They are looking at taking a point guard. I haven't really had much contact with them, but my agent talked to them."
Another player to keep your eye on is Memphis' Tyreke Evans. Word around here is that the Pacers may be willing to trade up to get him. Evans has been projected to go in the top 10 in several mock drafts. -- The Indianapolis Star (http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsider/archives/2009/05/checking_in_fro.html)

Trophy
05-29-2009, 03:28 PM
For those without Insider access:

Thanks for this.

danman
05-29-2009, 03:36 PM
So, what would be your PG rotation? Lawson and Diener?

If we trade Ford...then I don't see us letting Jack walk away in FA.

Assuming I'm right, it could be a cheap FA, or it could be a larger TJ plus trade where we get a big and a serviceable PG. Or you could be right, and we keep Jack.

I don't get the sense that the Pacers are sold on TJ or Diener. But Jack, though well liked, would be far better as a sub than a starter. If his asking price is 5 mill per year or thereabouts, one has to wonder about the investment. His offensive numbers aren't particularly good, and his defense is more pedestrian than his offense

count55
05-29-2009, 03:38 PM
That insider is just a link to the article at the top of this thread.

Trophy
05-29-2009, 03:41 PM
I hope Evans doesn't turn out to be like Jerryd Bayless if we trade for him.

flox
05-29-2009, 03:42 PM
My guess is the Pacers want to re-sign Jack keep him and play him as the starter and bring in a rookie point guard to back him up - with the idea that within a year or two the rookie point guard can become the starter and hopefully the type of point guard who can lead a 55 win team. One thing about point guards - there is a long history of excellent point guards being taken outside of the top ten.

My guess is the Pacers want and plan to trade TJ Ford. He doesn't fit into O'Brien's offensive system.


I'm very confident in saying this is what the Pacers want to do this summer - but who knows if they can work all this out.

A secondarly option is this: We jettison Ford after the 2011 season, don't sign Jack to a long term deal so that our players still expire during the right time (we seemed to have planned all of our salary to be dumped in 1 year, which is really brilliant), and have Danny, Rush, Hibbert, this year's 13, and next year's pick under contract for the offseason. The 2011 season has some interesting FA, such as Dirk, Yao, Carmelo, Joe Johnson. Jack is an option to keep if his salary is under 4-5 million, and doesn't hurt our 2011 plan.

Which is why I could see us taking a PG for the long term as a prospect to develop and not help immediately. I really hope we take BPA, so that in case Rush or Hibbert don't work out, we have a backup star 5 or star 2 or combo guard waiting to take over.

Trophy
05-29-2009, 03:48 PM
Bird isn't flat out saying he's looking to move Ford but with other statements he's saying such as drafting a taller PG as a backup and resigning Jack are leaving everyone to believe that Jack is gonna resign, hopefully Bird trades for Tyreke Evans as a backup PG and Diener opts to stay.

Similar to what Buck said a few posts back.

esabyrn333
05-29-2009, 04:09 PM
I'm not so sure about that. I think there's a reason OKC broke up the trade they had for him after looking at his medical information. I'm suspecting he's heading towards a downward slope.

From what I read was they backed out for medical reasons about his foot. He also just recently had an opperation to fix the foot issue

pwee31
05-29-2009, 07:15 PM
I'm gonna say we will get Tyson Chandler this summer. I wouldn't guarantee it, but we will pursue him vigorously. He'd be a great addition.

I don't think this will be the case any longer.

During this past trade deadline, we had an expiring Rasho to offer, as well as the team option on Quis.

The Hornets appear to looking to shed salary, and I don't believe we have a lot to offer them now

CableKC
05-29-2009, 08:26 PM
Assuming I'm right, it could be a cheap FA, or it could be a larger TJ plus trade where we get a big and a serviceable PG. Or you could be right, and we keep Jack.

I don't get the sense that the Pacers are sold on TJ or Diener. But Jack, though well liked, would be far better as a sub than a starter. If his asking price is 5 mill per year or thereabouts, one has to wonder about the investment. His offensive numbers aren't particularly good, and his defense is more pedestrian than his offense
You're right, they do have to be sold on Ford as a Starter ( which we are pretty sure they are not ).....but Since Diener is best suited to be a backup PG but more then likely a 3rd backup PG, my guess is that TPTB don't have to be sold on him in particular.

I'm really hoping that Ford is heavily shopped cuz I would prefer to go bigger with our PG lineup with Jack for the next 2 seasons. If Jack can be resigned and Ford moved, then I would have no problem with drafting Lawson.....I just don't want a Ford/Lawson/Diener PG rotation for the foreseeable future.

CableKC
05-29-2009, 08:37 PM
A secondarly option is this: We jettison Ford after the 2011 season, don't sign Jack to a long term deal so that our players still expire during the right time (we seemed to have planned all of our salary to be dumped in 1 year, which is really brilliant), and have Danny, Rush, Hibbert, this year's 13, and next year's pick under contract for the offseason. The 2011 season has some interesting FA, such as Dirk, Yao, Carmelo, Joe Johnson. Jack is an option to keep if his salary is under 4-5 million, and doesn't hurt our 2011 plan.

Which is why I could see us taking a PG for the long term as a prospect to develop and not help immediately. I really hope we take BPA, so that in case Rush or Hibbert don't work out, we have a backup star 5 or star 2 or combo guard waiting to take over.
I would believe this if we weren't in "Compete Now for the Playoffs" mode. Unless there is a Prospect that TPTB LOVE and is willing to wait to develop.....since we are in "Compete Now" mode....that means that we are likely to get a Player that can contribute as soon as possible.

flox
05-30-2009, 12:45 AM
I would believe this if we weren't in "Compete Now for the Playoffs" mode. Unless there is a Prospect that TPTB LOVE and is willing to wait to develop.....since we are in "Compete Now" mode....that means that we are likely to get a Player that can contribute as soon as possible.

If that is the case we might take a player with a mix of BPA and Upside....so someone who is falling on boards due to limitations (like Rush), who could eventually develop into a solid starter but still play backup minutes now....

MagicRat
05-30-2009, 01:25 AM
I personally can't see the Pacers having Ford, Lawson, and probably Diener as their 3 PGs. Talk about your lollipop guild.

And in the name of the Lollipop Guards,
We wish to welcome you to Pacerland
http://chaos.able-towers.com/%7Emagicrat/lollipopguards.jpg

CableKC
05-30-2009, 01:36 AM
If that is the case we might take a player with a mix of BPA and Upside....so someone who is falling on boards due to limitations (like Rush), who could eventually develop into a solid starter but still play backup minutes now....
It would be BPA that is NBA Ready AND has some upside. The problem is that most of the NBA Ready players are players with a lower ceiling.

If TPTB go with the NBA Ready players that would likely contribute as soon as possible....... I'm guessing that we're looking at players like Lawson, Flynn, Maynor, Henderson, Blair, and TWill.

Although players like Holiday and Evans have way more upside, I don't get the sense that thaty are NBA Ready to immediately contribute.

But, of course, this leads to the old argument of getting an NBA-Ready player over one that has more upside/potential.....basically the whole BRush/Bayless thread.

DrFife
05-30-2009, 09:37 AM
And in the name of the Lollipop Guards,
We wish to welcome you to Pacerland
http://chaos.able-towers.com/%7Emagicrat/lollipopguards.jpg

:laugh: Beautiful. I can see why you're considered a giant around here.

Shade
05-30-2009, 01:51 PM
I hope Evans doesn't turn out to be like Jerryd Bayless if we trade for him.

Meaning...?

croz24
05-30-2009, 01:56 PM
I don't want to be that guy, but is anyone bothered by Tyreke's past red flag. It seems to be just one, but it's a biggie. More because it might seem that there are some questionable characters in his past, and you have to wonder how much he's willing to distance himself from that. The last guy from Memphis didn't handle that too well.

yes...if not for his past, i'd honestly take tyreke #2 overall behind blake. that situation is not one that can be overlooked imo.

CableKC
05-30-2009, 04:02 PM
Someone needs to tell me the fascination about Tyreke Evans.....isn't he a Freshman that just recently starting playing the point?

I'm guessing that he has a lot of upside.....but is he even NBA-Ready to contribute now?

I don't get the sense that he's a PG that is ready to take over our PG duties.

Mr. Sobchak
05-30-2009, 04:27 PM
Someone needs to tell me the fascination about Tyreke Evans.....isn't he a Freshman that just recently starting playing the point?

I'm guessing that he has a lot of upside.....but is he even NBA-Ready to contribute now?

I don't get the sense that he's a PG that is ready to take over our PG duties.


He always played the point up through high school. Memphis didn't think that was his natural position and played him off the ball to start this past season. After losing to Syracuse they started playing him at point and won like 26 straight games before losing to Missouri.

Kemo
05-30-2009, 06:31 PM
From what I have seen with my own eyes,as well as read from the posters on here, I kinda like Evans..

But my guy for the draft is Steph Curry.
The man is a deadly shooter with killer instinct , who can take over in games and win them for his team.

Whoever gets the pleasure in drafting Curry , is gonna have their next Starks, Miller, Horry in the making. I believe the kid is special, and would absolutely love to have him. He would THRIVE in an up-tempo system like ours or D'Antoni's. I have a feeling if the Knicks do in fact get him , he will be their franchise player in a few years ..

pwee31
05-30-2009, 10:10 PM
And in the name of the Lollipop Guards,
We wish to welcome you to Pacerland
http://chaos.able-towers.com/%7Emagicrat/lollipopguards.jpg


:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: classic!

Trophy
05-31-2009, 09:23 PM
And in the name of the Lollipop Guards,
We wish to welcome you to Pacerland
http://chaos.able-towers.com/%7Emagicrat/lollipopguards.jpg

:laugh: This is too funny. Bird's kind of guys with that kind of personality and character.