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pwee31
05-26-2009, 01:38 AM
Though workouts are just getting started, a good amount of mocks and analysis are being made on selections and who should be picked.

Looking at the Pacers needs and draft position, I've come up with a list of players I'm hopeful the Pacers will select at #13.

I warn you these are just my opinions.

Earl Clark (Louisville)

I haven't heard Earl Clark mentioned around the digest a lot, but I think he's an interesting pick for the Pacers. I think Clark is a tremendous athlete and has the frame and skill to play both forward positions. Looking at the Pacers recent injury history I think it's good to have a versatile type player. Clark is a really good defender and has solid ball handling skills for a guy 6'9. He has an inconsistent jump shot and seems to to coast through games at times, but I think this can be coached. The kid is a solid on the boards as well.

Terrence Williams (Louisville)

Now Williams appears to be one guy a lot of folks are hot on, and for good reason. Terrence Williams brings a lot of skills to the table, he can handle the ball, has excellent court vision, locks in defensively, and is another really athletic guy. The knock has mostly been on his jump shot, but the kid actually has pretty good form, and could improve under Keller. He's a tough player and could also defend 3 positions. His ball handling and court vision could definitely help his back court mate and the guy can rebound for his position as well. Was a little turnover prone, but I never really saw Louisville with a solid PG who could lead the team and distribute.

Gerald Henderson (Duke)

I thought Henderson improved a lot this year and became a lot more confident in his game and skills. Some says he's undersized for a SG , but I think 6'4-6'5 is fine. Another good defender and stat stuffer like Williams mentioned above, but Henderson has a better jump shot, but not as good ball-handling skills. I see him as a terrific team player. Seemed very unselfish, on a talented Duke team. I think he and Williams could both help our team and the wing position immediately

Ty Lawson (North Carolina) and Johnny Flynn (Syracuse)

I'm not sure why the Pacers would go PG unless they can't resign Jack, or decide to trade Ford, but if they do, they'll likely have to choose from Lawson and Flynn. Lawson appears to be the safe pick, and I believe the Pacers like him last year before the injury. Lawson was the floor general for the Tar Heels and really played well all year. Really quick player and strong for his size, and loves to get up and down the floor. Has good court vision and doesn't turn the ball over too often. Really good at getting in the passing lanes on the defensive end, but size will still be a problem on the defensive end

Johnny Flynn is also a small yet fast PG with excellent ball handling skills. Flynn is a playmaker and seems to just have a knack for playing the game of basketball. Can get ahead of himself at times and lack of size could hurt him defensively, but I think he's an underrated defender fo his size in my opinion I think he'll thrive in the Pacers uptempo offense, as will Lawson. I think Flynn is the better athlete, is a clutch performer and seems to be a good leader. Flynn does remind me some of Tj Ford, except stronger and more durable. Though Lawson appears to be the safe pick, I think Flynn would be the better pick, though I hope the Pacers don't draft a PG


Chase Budinger (Arizona)

Now I may be going out on a climb here, but I think Budinger is going to be a solid professional player. He's also a really athletic player, and he's a quick jumper with a nice shooting stroke. Is a pretty solid passer, and a very unselfish player.. too unselfish at times. I think his quickness could make it hard on him defensively. Reminds me of Dunleavy some, except he's a better athlete, but doesn't have the ball handling. He actually attacks the basketball pretty and is a good finisher. Might be a reach at 13, but I don't necessarily think so.



There's other players whom could be selected here, but I don't think they'll be available (Holiday, Evans, Blair, and Curry)

Though the Pacers an athletic big I think the only one in the draft worth selecting at #13 is Clark.

I would prefer the Pacers to select a wing, either Williams or Henderson at #13 if available.

If Ford is moved or Jack isn't resigned I would like to see Flynn or Lawson with the selection.. in that order. Though we may need a bigger PG if Jack is gone, I don't see Evans or Holiday on the board, and I don't know what I think of Maynor.

The wildcard at 13 is Budinger, not sure how well he worked out, but I can see his stock rising during the workouts.

DGPR
05-26-2009, 01:41 AM
Flynn, Williams, Holiday or trade down.

Noodle
05-26-2009, 05:48 AM
Those are some good mentions there. I've mentioned Earl Clark a couple of times only to get a response that he is a tweener(he's a SF period). I guess peope are still holding onto hope that a talented PF will fall to us. I believe that he is going to be the best player available at 13. Clark is a match up nightmare(can guard three positions). He needs to make defense his focus at the NBA level and let the offense come to him, believe me he can score. Dude is a superior athlete. Shoots too many jump shots.

If Clark was to be selected before 13, Terrance Williams is the guy I'd want. Tremendous athlete, rebounds well, good shooter, outstanding hands and defense anticipation. Even more turnover prone than his teammate Clark, but as pwee31 mentioned the Cards never really had the ballhandler they needed.

Budinger is a stretch, or maybe not. More agile than people think. He has some hops too. Budinger will not be a great defensive player, but he will not be a liability. He's too athletic to stink at defense. It's just that damn White Men can't Jump poop. I think all people see is just another guy like Dunleavy in him, just a step slow. Which isn't true. More Similar to Ginobili in my opinion. Best shooter available to us at the 13 spot.

All I know is we aren't getting a PF. The wing talent will be plentiful. Good job pwee31.

OakMoses
05-26-2009, 11:34 AM
Johnny Flynn is also a small yet fast PG with excellent ball handling skills. Flynn is a playmaker and seems to just have a knack for playing the game of basketball. Can get ahead of himself at times and lack of size could hurt him defensively, but I think he's an underrated defender fo his size in my opinion I think he'll thrive in the Pacers uptempo offense, as will Lawson. I think Flynn is the better athlete, is a clutch performer and seems to be a good leader. Flynn does remind me some of Tj Ford, except stronger and more durable. Though Lawson appears to be the safe pick, I think Flynn would be the better pick, though I hope the Pacers don't draft a PG


While I'm not sold on Flynn as a surefire pick, there are things I like about him a lot. He's demonstrated more intangibles than any other player in this draft. At the end of the season when Syracuse was making their run, it often seemed like he was willing them to victory. They were competing with, and beating, more talented teams largely due to good coaching and Flynn's leadership and refusal to quit. He's got a killer instinct that could make him special, provided his game actually translates to the NBA level.

Naptown_Seth
05-26-2009, 12:28 PM
I was going to start a thread similar to this. I need more time to do it right, but for now I'll get a placeholder in here.


Guys I'd like on the Pacers that they could reasonably get (first or 2nd round)
TWill, Budinger, Henderson, Evans, Pendergraph (2nd), Adrien (2nd), Holliday, Jennings (likely gone much sooner, but a wild card still), Sam Young

Guys that worry me, but I'd be interested in
Clark, Blair, Ellington (almost in the no thanks range actually, but he's a gamer), Mullens, J Johnson

No thanks
Lawson, Flynn, Maynor, Curry, Collison


Sure, if it's definitely farther down
Mills, Teague, AJ Price (mid rnd 2)


Not sure how I feel about Lawal or Hansbrough

CableKC
05-26-2009, 04:00 PM
Earl Clark (Louisville)

I haven't heard Earl Clark mentioned around the digest a lot, but I think he's an interesting pick for the Pacers. I think Clark is a tremendous athlete and has the frame and skill to play both forward positions. Looking at the Pacers recent injury history I think it's good to have a versatile type player. Clark is a really good defender and has solid ball handling skills for a guy 6'9. He has an inconsistent jump shot and seems to to coast through games at times, but I think this can be coached. The kid is a solid on the boards as well.
Here is UncleReg's post regarding Earl Clark ( who has paid attention to Louisvill games ).

http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/showpost.php?p=868078&postcount=543


Here's my breakdown:

Defense

Great defender. He is a tremendous shot blocker because he is so quick off the ground and has incredible length. His length gives him the ability to guard bigger forwards, and his incredible footwork and quickness allows him to stay in front of quicker forwards and even most 2-guards. In fact, his combination of length and quickness makes him a slightly better on-ball defender than even T-Will. It's his off-the-ball D that gets him into trouble, which NaptownSeth has already pointed out so well.

Rebounding

This guy absolutely grabs every rebound in sight. He cleans up on both ends too, as he is a GREAT offensive rebounder. I've never had as great of an appreciation for rebounding than I've had now just because I've had the pleasure of watching Earl and T-Will over the past two years. Again, length and leaping ability allow him to get to balls that most could never dream of getting to.

Hands

Here's the thing... and this is not going to make any sense considering his nimbleness, agility, and athleticism. His hands are like baseball mitts when handling passes, rebounds, or loose balls from about chest level to the ceiling. But any bounce pass at the knees or a loose ball off someone's leg and he can be butterfingers. I have no explanation for this. Overall, great hands.

Passing/Ball Handling

Great vision and passing. This is probably his greatest asset because he is such a terrific passer at his size and position. He also has above average handles for his size, but not reliable enough to play a point-forward role like T-Will

Shooting/Offense

He can hit the open 3 at times, but I'd say his comfortable range is just inside 20 feet. If he floats around the perimeter and just shoots long-range jumpers all day, he will KILL you. Something that Louisville fans have had to deal with in the past. He is at his best when he is either attacking the basket or playing inside with his back to the basket. Since he is normally a mismatch problem for opposing defenders, he can get to the basket with ease. He has also developed a pull-up midrange jumper this season, which is great to see and scary at the same to think how much better this kid can become.

Attitude

I've heard a lot of "analysts" say that he sometimes coasts and doesnt give it his all. This only seems to be the case because of his demeanor. He's just one of those guys who looks like he's not exerting himself. Maybe it's because he's so fluid, smooth, and always calm, but he definitely gives it 110% each time he steps on the floor. He gets visibly upset with himself when he makes a mistake and occasionally shows emotion after a big moment. I am sympathetic cause I played sports the same way. People would always say that it looked like I wasnt trying when I knew I was busting my *** off on every play. He is a quiet kid and wont give you any problems off the court.

Final Comments

Here's my take on the very controversial Earl Clark. You always hear of players with tremendous upside but many question marks that lead people to say, "He will either be a great one or a bust." I dont think this applies to Earl. While Earl's ceiling is as high as anyone's, his 'basement level' isnt as low as some project. But it's just that Earl is not very likely to reach his full potential. Best case scenario: he'll find himself in a couple of All-Star games and average 18 pts/9 rebs/4 ast year-in, year-out. Worst case scenario: he'll be a guy coming off the bench who can give you 10 and 6, which is not that bad, it's just not Top 10 pick worthy. He wont be a star or a guy who can carry you to the promise land, but he can be a good sidekick or a great third option... it's up to GMs to decide what pick he is worth. Part of his success will depend on development, but his success will mostly be determined by his situation and his mindset in the pros. In terms of situation, if he is a 4, he has no chance. He is a 3, no if's, and's, or but's about it.

The biggest problem I see with him is mental. He has all the tools and skills to absolutely dominate each game he plays in; but he lacks that killer instinct. I mean, with his ability to get to the basket and his athleticism, he should be telling his opponent, "I'm going to dunk on you so hard you're going to end up on my kid's bedroom poster." How many times has he done this over his three years in college? I've only seen it once (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9XRZZlGa3M). I was so shocked when I saw he did that that I spilled my beer all over my shirt (a very nice one, too). But he either pulls up for a jumper or when he gets near, he'll either float it or try to hang in the air and put it over the defender. He can get away with this on the college level, but not in the pros.

My opinion is that he is worth a late lottery or mid-round pick, but if we're picking inside 10, I say pass.

From what I can gather.....if we are looking for a Tweener that is more of a SF that can be an "emergency" Backup PF ( on an "as needed" basis ), then he would be a good fit. As suggested in the PD Mock Draft thread, it would seem that if the Nets wanted to draft a future Tweener Forward that can fill the SF spot ( once Yi is eventually traded ).....then Clark would be a good fit......but not for the Pacers.

Trophy
05-26-2009, 04:03 PM
I like Budinger but I don't think he's what we need. It'll be like drafting another Rush.

Major Cold
05-26-2009, 04:05 PM
If TWill, Henderson, Jennings, Jrue, or Evans are gone trade down and get two late 1st rounders.

SaM Young
and
Pendergraph or even T-Psyco

Major Cold
05-26-2009, 04:16 PM
I like Budinger but I don't think he's what we need. It'll be like drafting another Rush.

By Rush you mean Dunleavy. And by Dunleavy you mean a more athletic Dunleavy. And by more athletic Dunleavy, you mean a more athletic Dunleavy who lacks the veteran savvy and teammate involvement intangibles.

And by less at athletic Dunleavy who lacks the veteran savvy and teammate involvement intangibles, you mean a white guy.

DGPR
05-26-2009, 04:18 PM
By Rush you mean Dunleavy. And by Dunleavy you mean a less athletic Dunleavy. And by more athletic Dunleavy, you mean a more athletic Dunleavy who lacks the veteran savvy and teammate involvement intangibles.

And by less at athletic Dunleavy who lacks the veteran savvy and teammate involvement intangibles, you mean a white guy.


I'm not sure what just happened but my mind just shorted out and rebooted.

Kemo
05-26-2009, 05:13 PM
By Rush you mean Dunleavy. And by Dunleavy you mean a less athletic Dunleavy. And by more athletic Dunleavy, you mean a more athletic Dunleavy who lacks the veteran savvy and teammate involvement intangibles.

And by less at athletic Dunleavy who lacks the veteran savvy and teammate involvement intangibles, you mean a white guy.


ROFLMMFAO!!


Good one ..

.
.

Trophy
05-26-2009, 05:55 PM
By Rush you mean Dunleavy. And by Dunleavy you mean a more athletic Dunleavy. And by more athletic Dunleavy, you mean a more athletic Dunleavy who lacks the veteran savvy and teammate involvement intangibles.

And by less at athletic Dunleavy who lacks the veteran savvy and teammate involvement intangibles, you mean a white guy.

I actually understood this. :-o

Naptown_Seth
05-26-2009, 10:22 PM
Chase's defense takes Mike's defense out back and comes back alone and unscathed. Everyone buys it a beer and thanks it for getting rid of the smell.

Chase at this point might not have the offensive awareness that Mike does, but his motor this year was on full all the time and it paid off. The guy turned into one of those dudes that comes from behind you in the half court and blows your shot up out of nowhere, and then goes the other way for the foul at the rim.

It's a dramatic change from the tall, spot up SG he was starting to resemble last year (ie, Dunleavy lite). He's more like Brent Barry with a passion for real defense now.

Seriously, there might be an empty pod in the AZ locker room somewhere.

pwee31
05-27-2009, 12:46 PM
Clark, Twill, and Henderson are the 3 at the top of my list at #13

Budinger is my sleeper at this pick.

In the 2nd round I'm looking at:

Jeff Pendergraph (Arizona St.)

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/jeff-pendergraph

Josh Heyvelt (Gonzaga)

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/josh-heytvelt

Dionte Christmas (Temple)

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/dionte-christmas

Taj Gibson (USC)

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/taj-gibson

Wesley Matthews (Marquette)

Alade Aminu (GT)

Jonathan
05-27-2009, 01:12 PM
I also think the Pacers need to look at Tonney Douglas and Jerel Mc Neil if they are available in the second round. Our second rounder may get a little PT this year.

Noodle
05-27-2009, 01:23 PM
Heyvelt over Pendegraph. I also think Haragody form Notre Dame. I think he is extremely underrated.

idioteque
05-27-2009, 02:39 PM
What are some real differences between T-Will and Henderson? They seem like similar players: good defenders, good awareness, ability to drive to the basket, athletic, questionable jump shooting.

I don't see Pendergraph falling into the second round, and even if he does, someone is going to get him way before we do. Adrien will probably be gone by our second round pick, too. However I would really have to consider trading down for two early second round picks and grabbing both of these guys, but I don't know how one would even begin to do that. Plus, it would be a huge risk.

OakMoses
05-27-2009, 02:42 PM
What are some real differences between T-Will and Henderson? They seem like similar players: good defenders, good awareness, ability to drive to the basket, athletic, questionable jump shooting.


Henderson is a 2. Williams is a 2/3. Henderson is a better scorer and is quicker. Williams is stronger and a much better passer and ball-handler.

There's no way that Toney Douglas is going to fall to our 2nd round pick.

Trophy
05-27-2009, 03:42 PM
How valuable is Ahmad Nivins to be a lottery pick? He seems like the kind of guy we need for low post defense.

OakMoses
05-27-2009, 04:12 PM
How valuable is Ahmad Nivins to be a lottery pick? He seems like the kind of guy we need for low post defense.

I'm guessing he'll be there with our late 2nd round pick. I haven't seen him in the 1st round of any mock draft.

pwee31
05-28-2009, 06:36 PM
I also wanted to add Tyler Hansbrough (North Carolina) to my list of hopefuls

Not at 13 b/c I think we could get him later, but the more I go back and watch highlights, and read comparisons, the more he reminds me of David Lee, and I think every team could used that type of player.

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/tyler-hansbrough

and here's one on David Lee to compare

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/David-Lee-87/

Putnam
05-28-2009, 08:17 PM
This is a good thread, and very useful for someone like me who doesn't watch college ball and only starts to care about these names in the weeks leading up to the draft.

So it is sort of a travesty that I'm breaking my appreciative silence to ask:


ROFLMMFAO!!


What does the 2nd "M" signify?


.

pwee31
05-28-2009, 08:21 PM
This is a good thread, and very useful for someone like me who doesn't watch college ball and only starts to care about these names in the weeks leading up to the draft.

So it is sort of a travesty that I'm breaking my appreciative silence to ask:




What does the 2nd "M" signify?


.

My guess is the 2nd M stands for "Mother"

Putnam
05-28-2009, 09:25 PM
So then I guess the "F" doesn't stand for "Fat?" :shudder:



.

Kemo
05-28-2009, 11:06 PM
This is a good thread, and very useful for someone like me who doesn't watch college ball and only starts to care about these names in the weeks leading up to the draft.

So it is sort of a travesty that I'm breaking my appreciative silence to ask:




What does the 2nd "M" signify?


.


lol



rolling
on
floor
laughing
my
mother
:censored:
*another word for donkey*
off

croz24
05-28-2009, 11:37 PM
jonny flynn is the personality this team desperately needs

Trophy
05-29-2009, 03:25 PM
jonny flynn is the personality this team desperately needs

If Tyreke Evans had his kind of character he would make a good player for us.

croz24
05-29-2009, 06:50 PM
If Tyreke Evans had his kind of character he would make a good player for us.

if evans had flynn's character, evans would be a top 3 lock...evans has more natural ability than anybody else in this draft imo.