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PacerDude
05-25-2009, 04:31 PM
http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/103970-clippers-entertaining-offers-for-top-pick?eref=fromSI

NBA sources continue to indicate that the Los Angeles Clippers are entertaining offers for the No. 1 pick. Despite their initial comments made on draft night about having already decided to pick Blake Griffin, they are keeping all their options open for now. "From what I understand, they didn't want to sound uncertain on draft night, since that's a typical Clippers reaction. This is a very important time for them in terms of season ticket renewals, which is why they had that kneejerk reaction."

Leave it to the Clippers. Let's see .......... what kind of package can the Pacers put together for #1 ?? Reunite the Dunleavys. Unload Jamaal. The possibilities are endless.

count55
05-25-2009, 04:39 PM
The possibilities are endless.

I'm guessing that anything that doesn't include Danny Granger as a starter would end things pretty quickly.

Lord Helmet
05-25-2009, 04:41 PM
How 'bout we give them Tinsley, Oliver Miller and Mountain Dew Throwback.

CableKC
05-25-2009, 04:45 PM
I doubt that we could come up with any package that we would be interested in parting with that would peak the Clippers interest.

Big Smooth
05-25-2009, 04:47 PM
I doubt that we could come up with any package that we would be interested in parting with that would peak the Clippers interest.

Then again, they are the Clippers. :D

count55
05-25-2009, 04:48 PM
I doubt that we could come up with any package that we would be interested in parting with that would peak the Clippers interest.

pique

d_c
05-25-2009, 05:08 PM
The Clips saying they're "entertaining offers for the #1 pick" = We'll trade him to OKC if they're willing to offer Kevin Durant.

And that's probably about the extent of it. The #1 pick hasn't been traded on draft day since 1993. Even in years in which the #1 pick was of far less consensus than Griffin this year, the #1 pick still never got traded. Expect more of the same this year.

Doddage
05-25-2009, 05:12 PM
pique
What exactly was the point of this, or relevance of it to the thread? It was pretty straightforward what he meant.

Back on topic, I was waiting for this topic to come up, but unfortunately the only way we could have gotten the pick was to win it in the lottery. I don't know why the Clipps would want to trade it anyway, as Griffin is clearly a better choice to have than Randolph. On second thought however, It would be a Clippers thing to do.

MyFavMartin
05-25-2009, 05:51 PM
The Clips saying they're "entertaining offers for the #1 pick" = We'll trade him to OKC if they're willing to offer Kevin Durant.

And that's probably about the extent of it. The #1 pick hasn't been traded on draft day since 1993. Even in years in which the #1 pick was of far less consensus than Griffin this year, the #1 pick still never got traded. Expect more of the same this year.

If I'm OKC, I'm quite aware Durant >>> Griffin, so I'd be wanting some talent thrown in: Kaman and a dump of Watson and maybe even a swap of Green for Thornton.

MillerTime
05-25-2009, 06:27 PM
I don't think the Clipps will trade Blake. If anything its more likely they trade Camby, Kaman or Randolph

Tiny Archibald
05-25-2009, 06:39 PM
Since this thread was started, I'll go ahead and toss out the question
I was gonna ask last week.

Is there anyone who'd seriously consider trading Granger for the #1
slot to draft Griffin ?

Anyone other than me, that is ?

Putnam
05-25-2009, 07:08 PM
Since this thread was started, I'll go ahead and toss out the question
I was gonna ask last week.

Is there anyone who'd seriously consider trading Granger for the #1
slot to draft Griffin ?

Anyone other than me, that is ?


Not on this side of the fence, neighbor!

MillerTime
05-25-2009, 07:37 PM
Since this thread was started, I'll go ahead and toss out the question
I was gonna ask last week.

Is there anyone who'd seriously consider trading Granger for the #1
slot to draft Griffin ?

Anyone other than me, that is ?
That's interesting. I wouldn't be devestated if we did. Blake is gonna be good

count55
05-25-2009, 08:06 PM
Since this thread was started, I'll go ahead and toss out the question
I was gonna ask last week.

Is there anyone who'd seriously consider trading Granger for the #1
slot to draft Griffin ?

Anyone other than me, that is ?

I would have traded Granger for Rose.

I would have traded Granger (plus) for the Oden/Durant pick.

I would have traded Granger for the #1 pick in his draft, probably to take Chris Paul (or Deron Williams).

I would not have traded Granger (as he is now) for the #1 pick in 2006 (the Bargnani draft), and I would not trade Granger for Griffin. I don't think you get any better...(or more accurately, you don't improve enough.)

(BTW...I'd almost certainly trade Granger for Roy, who went in the 2006 draft, but not until 6th. I wouldn't trade Danny for anybody who went before Brandon Roy.)

Of course, the point that d_c was trying to make is that nobody trades the #1 pick...for anything, and so nobody's going to trade the #1 pick for Danny.

Tiny Archibald
05-25-2009, 08:58 PM
B00sh-

Ya, I see your point. When it comes to a '35 win' franchise that's
essentially spinning it's wheels, who in his or her right mind would even
momentarily consider trading 'the face' of said franchise for a player
who'll probably end up as good or better than 'the face' at a position
that's harder to fill.

Note: I've nothing against DG. He's a very good player, a great kid,
etc. I just happen to think that Griffin has a legit shot to be
THE BEST PF in the NBA in 4-5 years. I can only think of
3-4 SF/SG guys I wouldn't trade for a shot at drafting
him. None of then is named Granger.

It's as simple as that.

Bball
05-25-2009, 09:09 PM
B00sh-

Ya, I see your point. When it comes to a '35 win' franchise that's
essentially spinning it's wheels, who in his or her right mind would even
momentarily consider trading 'the face' of said franchise for a player
who'll probably end up as good or better than 'the face' at a position
that's harder to fill.

Note: I've nothing against DG. He's a very good player, a great kid,
etc. I just happen to think that Griffin has a legit shot to be
THE BEST PF in the NBA in 4-5 years. I can only think of
3-4 SF/SG guys I wouldn't trade for a shot at drafting
him. None of then is named Granger.

It's as simple as that.

Danny Granger has clearly shown the ability to be a real leader. I don't trade that for just anything...

When Blake Griffin is the clear #1 pick in the NBA draft, you have a weak draft.

So, no thanks... I stick with Granger. He's the type of player, and person, I can respect.

-Bball

Ballerzfan
05-25-2009, 09:16 PM
Here's the biggest reason not to trade DG for Griffin imo... when a game is on the line and a big shot is to be taken for the win, is Griffin really the guy you can see the coach saying "get it in his hands no matter what for this last shot!"? No.

vnzla81
05-25-2009, 09:18 PM
I think the only deal the Clippers could get from the Pacers is if the Pacers send TJ Ford, Murphy and 13th pick for BD, filler and 1st pick

QuickRelease
05-25-2009, 09:26 PM
Here's the biggest reason not to trade DG for Griffin imo... when a game is on the line and a big shot is to be taken for the win, is Griffin really the guy you can see the coach saying "get it in his hands no matter what for this last shot!"? No.

How can you say this about a guy who has never set foot in the NBA? We don't know what Griffin will be yet. Maybe he is that guy from day 1. Who knows.

Shade
05-25-2009, 09:42 PM
We're not getting Griffin, so let's just put that to bed right now.

Ballerzfan
05-25-2009, 09:43 PM
How can you say this about a guy who has never set foot in the NBA? We don't know what Griffin will be yet. Maybe he is that guy from day 1. Who knows.

I don't dispute the fact that he could be that type of player someday, but the odds are against him in that regard. Almost none of "the game is on the line" shooters come from the PF position. It's almost always from the 1, 2 or 3 positions. Kobe, Lebron, Dwade, CPIII, AI, Anthony, Nash, Roy and the list goes on and on. Every team has to have that one player that can create his own shot from either 2 or 3 pt range and/or get to the line in critical situations. Show me a team that has traded that player for a maybe someday he'll be that kind of player from the 4 position? DG is currently the only Pacer capable of consistently being able to produce in that situation. It'd be suicidal to trade that kind of talent for a maybe someday.

QuickRelease
05-25-2009, 09:44 PM
We're not getting Griffin, so let's just put that to bed right now.

Yep, that's about right.

speakout4
05-25-2009, 09:49 PM
We're not getting Griffin, so let's just put that to bed right now.
Your having a busy night. Nice to see the mods earning their pay. (Don't delete;)).

Spirit
05-25-2009, 09:55 PM
I would never, ever, trade Granger. Heck, not even LeBron or Dwight. I truly believe that Granger wants to be a Pacer for his whole career. You look at Dwight or LeBron, do you think "this guy wants to be on their team forever."? I don't. Granger is exactly who the Pacers need. He's become the face of our team and an all star. Now theres people saying "lets trade him for Griffin!"? That's bullcrap. Griffin is an unproven college player. Even if he is as good as Granger, there is no point in doing the trade. Granger has been loyal to us and is a great guy to have. His worth to this team for not only his talents but his personality, to me, makes him untouchable.

Spirit
05-25-2009, 09:56 PM
Your having a busy night. Nice to see the mods earning their pay. (Don't delete;)).I'm about 99.9% sure mods don't get paid.

vnzla81
05-25-2009, 10:02 PM
I'm about 99.9% sure mods don't get paid.

they get pay in pacers tickets and hot dogs......:bump:

speakout4
05-25-2009, 10:04 PM
they get pay in pacers tickets and hot dogs......:bump:
no just nachos.

Roaming Gnome
05-26-2009, 12:05 AM
they get pay in pacers tickets and hot dogs......:bump:

Fwhat? I'll remember that when I scratch the check for my monthly installment in a few days for my Season Tickets. It might not make it as painful to write the check...

:lol:

Anthem
05-26-2009, 02:36 AM
What exactly was the point of this, or relevance of it to the thread?
He was just saving me the trouble.... :D

Anthem
05-26-2009, 02:37 AM
I'm about 99.9% sure mods don't get paid.
That's what YOU think. Where do you think all of that ad revenue goes? You know, from all of the ads here at PD?

kester99
05-26-2009, 02:42 AM
They are paid with alien 'manna.' Some of them have not been seen outside their houses for years.

The games? The pizza parties? Simulacrams.

You want to be a mod? You got to want it bad.

jhondog28
05-26-2009, 10:40 AM
I will say that for most of the Clippers history of doing poorly in the draft it was baylor who was pulling the strings so maybe they will start doing things intelligently.

WetBob
05-26-2009, 12:08 PM
I would never, ever, trade Granger. Heck, not even LeBron or Dwight. I truly believe that Granger wants to be a Pacer for his whole career. You look at Dwight or LeBron, do you think "this guy wants to be on their team forever."? I don't. Granger is exactly who the Pacers need. He's become the face of our team and an all star. Now theres people saying "lets trade him for Griffin!"? That's bullcrap. Griffin is an unproven college player. Even if he is as good as Granger, there is no point in doing the trade. Granger has been loyal to us and is a great guy to have. His worth to this team for not only his talents but his personality, to me, makes him untouchable.


Why can no PD member ever look at DG rationally?

Not for LeBron or Dwight... good lord.

PacerDude
05-26-2009, 12:34 PM
Granger has been loyal to us and is a great guy to have. His worth to this team for not only his talents but his personality, to me, makes him untouchable.Let's wait until the end of his career before we talk about his loyalty.

The Pacers drafted him, the Pacers gave him a huge contract extension. Not much not to like from his position so far. Let's see if he hangs around for the whole rebuilding project. Let's see if he's really the leader and cornerstone that many want him to be. It's too early in his career to talk about his loyalty.

Now, trading him for LeBron or Howard ?? Uh, yeah. In a second. ANd what make you say that either of them don't seem to have loyalty to their current teams ??

rexnom
05-26-2009, 01:34 PM
The Clips saying they're "entertaining offers for the #1 pick" = We'll trade him to OKC if they're willing to offer Kevin Durant.

And that's probably about the extent of it. The #1 pick hasn't been traded on draft day since 1993. Even in years in which the #1 pick was of far less consensus than Griffin this year, the #1 pick still never got traded. Expect more of the same this year.
If you're Oklahoma City, you have to at least think about it, right (assuming that LAC would add more to it)? Or at least try to convince the Clippers to trade down to their spot while taking on a contract.

croz24
05-26-2009, 02:23 PM
Here's the biggest reason not to trade DG for Griffin imo... when a game is on the line and a big shot is to be taken for the win, is Griffin really the guy you can see the coach saying "get it in his hands no matter what for this last shot!"? No.

is dwight howard? what about shaq? kg? duncan? you can name just about any pf/c in the league and chances are there is somebody else on the team who takes that big shot for the win...but you're right, i would never trade granger for howard straight up. they'd need to throw in hedo as well so we can get our "big shot" player in return...

Major Cold
05-26-2009, 03:57 PM
Would you trade Durant for the #1 and Gordon?

Putnam
05-26-2009, 03:59 PM
Why can no PD member ever look at DG rationally?

Not for LeBron or Dwight... good lord.

I dunno, but maybe the people who say, "I'd never trade Granger" are being very rational, because they're thinking about what the Pacers could reasonably get for him. They may be saying "Granger is worth more to the Pacers than any player that other teams would be willing to give for him."

Talking about trading Granger for LeBron James or Dwight Howard is about as Candyland as you can get.

.

Kstat
05-26-2009, 04:02 PM
Would you trade Durant for the #1 and Gordon?

In a heartbeat.

Justin Tyme
05-26-2009, 04:09 PM
I dunno, but maybe the people who say, "I'd never trade Granger" are being very rational, because they're thinking about what the Pacers could reasonably get for him. They may be saying "Granger is worth more to the Pacers than any player that other teams would be willing to give for him."

Talking about trading Granger for LeBron James or Dwight Howard is about as Candyland as you can get.

.


Kinda reminds me of all those threads and posts about trading JO for KG.

Doddage
05-26-2009, 04:44 PM
Would you trade Durant for the #1 and Gordon?
I'd have to take it into long consideration. It'd be difficult since the Oklahoma fans are probably in love with Durant, as they should be. But looking at what's coming the other way, I'd ultimately have to do it since having a lineup of Westbrook/Gordon/Green/Griffin/(C to be filled later) looks like a damn good team for the future. Having Green really makes the deal easier to do, since him and Durant play the same natural position and having Durant go would enable Green to fill the starter's role.

Kemo
05-26-2009, 05:10 PM
Would you trade Durant for the #1 and Gordon?


In a heartbeat ....

Shade
05-26-2009, 05:22 PM
In a heartbeat.

Ditto.

QuickRelease
05-26-2009, 07:18 PM
In a heartbeat ....

What would take you so long to say yes?

Bball
05-26-2009, 09:37 PM
Ditto.

But what if Bayless was available too???? :devil:

Naptown_Seth
05-26-2009, 10:44 PM
Good call Putty. That's exactly what it is. It's frustrating that such points still have to be made.


When Blake Griffin is the clear #1 pick in the NBA draft, you have a weak draft.
-Bball
Um...

what?

Let's see, you take a guy nipping at Beasley's heels last year, slotted probably 5th overall, then you give him a dramatic improvement to go with either hand toward the rim and intimidate the game at both ends that far exceeds where B-Easy was last year and I think you quickly get an obvious #1 pick.

This draft is a little weak, though due to comparisons to last year it's going to seem poor. But the quality of Griffin as the top prospect is not one of those indicators. Maybe Harden and Thabeet at top 4-5 prospects is instead. And the fact that the clear top 2 PG options are both unknowns to most Americans at this point thanks to playing in Europe.


The reason I trade Danny for Griffin is that you can more easily improve the 3 spot later than you can the 4 spot. Not a lot of teams are going to have someone that can deal with Griffin unless he just flops outright somehow. Right now he looks like some blend of Boozer and Hakeem with his power and dexterity.

croz24
05-26-2009, 11:04 PM
blake griffin is carlos boozer times 10 athletically but with passion and intensity...i'd probably trade granger for him straight up. bird wouldn't though...

Bball
05-27-2009, 12:42 AM
Good call Putty. That's exactly what it is. It's frustrating that such points still have to be made.


Um...

what?

Let's see, you take a guy nipping at Beasley's heels last year, slotted probably 5th overall, then you give him a dramatic improvement to go with either hand toward the rim and intimidate the game at both ends that far exceeds where B-Easy was last year and I think you quickly get an obvious #1 pick.

This draft is a little weak, though due to comparisons to last year it's going to seem poor. But the quality of Griffin as the top prospect is not one of those indicators. Maybe Harden and Thabeet at top 4-5 prospects is instead. And the fact that the clear top 2 PG options are both unknowns to most Americans at this point thanks to playing in Europe.


The reason I trade Danny for Griffin is that you can more easily improve the 3 spot later than you can the 4 spot. Not a lot of teams are going to have someone that can deal with Griffin unless he just flops outright somehow. Right now he looks like some blend of Boozer and Hakeem with his power and dexterity.

Key word is clear.

I'm not saying he shouldn't be the #1 pick but I think if you put him in several other drafts he's not nearly the clear front runner he is in this one.

IMHO the weakness of the draft has made him the 'clear' number one choice and being the clear number 1 choice has elevated expectations and desire for him on teams a little more than it otherwise would in a better year.

I don't give up Danny's leadership and the intangibles he brought last season for Blake Griffin. Leadership is one of the hardest things to replace. There are plenty of pretenders, not so many contenders for the role. Pacer fans should know this better than almost anyone. You find a real leader and team player, you don't give that up easily. Nobody is 'untradeable' in my book, but you have to be realistic about what you're giving up and what you're gaining. You also have to consider what a setback trading Granger now would be in hopes that Griffin could deliver later. This Pacer team doesn't have much 'later' in them. Not if they are going to stay in Indiana.

And any thoughts of adding Griffin to the team with Granger is something from Unicorn Land.

...I don't see Griffin as someone you build a team around. ...But if we can trade Foster for him... ;)

ChicagoPacer
05-27-2009, 01:12 AM
Let's see, you take a guy nipping at Beasley's heels last year, slotted probably 5th overall, then you give him a dramatic improvement to go with either hand toward the rim and intimidate the game at both ends that far exceeds where B-Easy was last year and I think you quickly get an obvious #1 pick.

This draft is a little weak, though due to comparisons to last year it's going to seem poor. But the quality of Griffin as the top prospect is not one of those indicators. Maybe Harden and Thabeet at top 4-5 prospects is instead. And the fact that the clear top 2 PG options are both unknowns to most Americans at this point thanks to playing in Europe.

The reason I trade Danny for Griffin is that you can more easily improve the 3 spot later than you can the 4 spot. Not a lot of teams are going to have someone that can deal with Griffin unless he just flops outright somehow. Right now he looks like some blend of Boozer and Hakeem with his power and dexterity.

The problems with Griffin becoming a multiple all-star caliber player in the NBA are numerous. First the good parts: He plays extremely well under the basket overpowering smaller and less athletic college players. His end to end quickness is good. He finishes extremely well in transition when he can take a lob or a pass, a couple of dribbles, and a shot. He has quick hands, fights for balls, and has a good motor.

Now the bad parts:
1-His defense is pretty poor when guarding players who are power forward sized (and decently athletic) NBA players.
2-He has no offensive game other than underneath stuff or overpowering guys in transition game.
3-He is really 6-8 (wait until the measurements come) and has relatively short arms. His wide frame will negate some of those disadvantages, but it will still be a huge hurdle for him to overcome inside.

As a collegian, he was nipping at Beasley's heels because Beasley had a lot of the skill set of a small forward while playing in the body of a college power forward. At the next level, Beasley will continue to grow into his role as a 3, while Griffin is pretty much what he is. A healthy version of Kenyon Martin or an Elton Brand without the offensive game.

Given his skill set and physical limitations, Griffin is the type of player who will fade quickly when his explosiveness starts to leave him in his late 20s. Granger is 6 years older, but I still think there is an even chance that he will still be a better player than Griffin 7 years from now when he's well into his 30s and Griffin should be near his prime at 27.

naptownmenace
05-27-2009, 10:12 AM
As a collegian, he was nipping at Beasley's heels because Beasley had a lot of the skill set of a small forward while playing in the body of a college power forward. At the next level, Beasley will continue to grow into his role as a 3, while Griffin is pretty much what he is. A healthy version of Kenyon Martin or an Elton Brand without the offensive game.


Compared to Beasley, Griffin is still second best. Beasley has a greater skillset and although he struggled at times during his rookie season, he still showed flashes of greatness at times against bigger and more athletic players.

Also, as ChicagoPacer pointed out, PFs that go early in the draft don't always pan out. Kenyon Martin was a clear #1 coming out of Cincinnati but it was mainly because of his size advantage in college that he was such a dominant player. That was quickly negated in the NBA. He's still a decent player and an excellent defender but is he the type of guy you can build your team around? Ask yourself the same question about Elton Brand, who was a better college player than Griffin as well.

Remember Marcus Fizer? He went #4 in the draft and was nearly the exact same size as Griffin. However he his NBA career ended after just 4 seasons with a 9.8 ppg, 4.6 rpg, and 1.2 apg, shooting .435 from the floor. I definitely think Griffin is better than Fizer but I though Fizer was pretty awesom too coming straight out of college.

Griffin could be the next Charles Barkley, Derrick Coleman, or Carlos Boozer, but he's probably not going to be the next, Karl Malone, Tim Duncan, or Kevin Garnett. In other words, I don't think he's a guy who can lead you to a championship.

Tiny Archibald
05-28-2009, 10:02 AM
CP-

Which Elton Brand ? The one from a couple years ago or the one
at 20 as a sophomore at Duke ? If the latter, are you implying that
Brand had the same superior to Griffin's offensive game while a
soph at Duke that he does now when healthy ?

Btw, since when do superior, male, hoops athletes start to 'lose
their explosiveness' at the age of 27 when most are just beginning
their peak phase that typically (with a few exceptions like the poorly
proportioned and ill-advisedly used J.O.) lasts from about 27-31 or
32 ?

Also, I'll bet that Griffin measures at 6-9. Plus, he has huge hands
which will allow him to 'play bigger' that he is.

P.S.- Just as an aside, was Karl Malone the 15-18 ft face-up shooter
at 20 at La. Tech that he became years later in the NBA ?

I don't have a clue. But I seriously doubt it.

Kstat
05-28-2009, 11:46 AM
I really wish people would watch Griffin play before making these absurd comparisons. The difference in athletic ability between Griffin and Marcus Fizer is laughable. He's got shawn kemp athleticism in Karl Malone's body.

Naptown_Seth
05-28-2009, 11:49 AM
3-He is really 6-8 (wait until the measurements come) and has relatively short arms. His wide frame will negate some of those disadvantages, but it will still be a huge hurdle for him to overcome inside.
Kevin Love just called BS on this angle.

Griffin didn't just rely on pushing people away. He was quicker than pretty much any front line player he saw. His handles in traffic were much better than any other front line player and by this year they were better than Beasley's, and that was one of his claims to fame.


Don't take my tone the wrong way, I do appreciate an actual debate with real counterpoints, and certainly you could be right on this one. I just think some of the questions you are raising are overblown and undersell just how well he plays. It's the fact that he is so quick with his power that sells me. Plus there is craft to what he does, he brings a game that to me looks refined as a traditional PF.

I realize that Beasley is more Karl Malone than Boozer, but as I said I think Love proved that you can be a PF without massively outsizing people. Plenty of guys with size don't apply it very well. For example simply look at Thabeet's offensive game which is much more in line with your "he simply overpowers smaller guys for dunks" angle. Griffin's game is drastically more sophisticated than Thabeet's, and you can't even point to an age factor to explain it away.

OakMoses
05-28-2009, 12:08 PM
First the good parts: He plays extremely well under the basket overpowering smaller and less athletic college players.

Now the bad parts:
1-His defense is pretty poor when guarding players who are power forward sized (and decently athletic) NBA players.
2-He has no offensive game other than underneath stuff or overpowering guys in transition game.
3-He is really 6-8 (wait until the measurements come) and has relatively short arms. His wide frame will negate some of those disadvantages, but it will still be a huge hurdle for him to overcome inside.


Point by point:

Griffin has elite athleticism. He will still be more athletic than 95% of bigs at the NBA level. He won't be bigger than most, but I don't think he's legitimately undersized.

1 - It's not an excuse for poor play, but Griffin has said in interviews that he was told by his coach at OU to take it easy on the defensive end. He said that Capel told him they weren't going to win many games with him on the bench in foul trouble. It's an excuse, for sure, but I don't think he made it up.

2 - Griffin has a very good jump shot that extends out to the college 3 point line. In addition, he has the ball-handling ability to drive past guys when they try to close out on him.

3- There are plenty of undersized players who are demonstrably less athletic and less skilled than Griffin who are succeeding at the NBA level: Carl Landry, Chuck Hayes, David West, Paul Millsap, Carlos Boozer, etc.

Kid Minneapolis
05-28-2009, 03:08 PM
Not only would I not trade Granger for Griffin, I think the Clips would be rather unreasonable in asking for Granger in return for Griffin. That's a lopsided trade. Granger is good, people.