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View Full Version : Chad Ford on Jordan Hill



Ballerzfan
05-23-2009, 11:02 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2009/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=PreDraftTour-090521

Hill is one of the players that I've watched all season hoping to get a definitive read on his NBA potential. The one characteristic I've noticed is he does truly seem to enjoy mixing it up inside. The telling tale will be how he progresses against tougher players in the NBA on a nightly basis. Will he improve the nasty streak he shows at times or will he resign to only stressing that segment of his game against lesser skilled players?

Major Cold
05-23-2009, 11:11 AM
I like him and want him. Too bad we won't get him

jhondog28
05-23-2009, 11:32 AM
I love J. Hill. I personally like him more than Rubio and Thabeet as far as NBA potential. I think Hill will get stronger and improve his longer range jumper with time. Right now I think he would be a beast inside. i agree there is no way we get him unless we trade up and right now I do not see that happening. He might be as close to a sleeper in this draft with all the talk about Griffin and Rubio. (Dont know how a potential #3 pick is a sleeper but for some reason I just think it fits).

Gamble1
05-23-2009, 12:44 PM
I didn't see much of him but what I did see of him I wasn't all that impressed with his game.

d_c
05-23-2009, 01:02 PM
I like him and want him. Too bad we won't get him

You're not missing out on all that much if you don't get Jordan Hill. You're basically missing out on a Chris Wilcox/Drew Gooden level player at most.

croz24
05-23-2009, 01:03 PM
I didn't see much of him but what I did see of him I wasn't all that impressed with his game.

jordan hill is a lesser version of jason thompson. talent-wise, he's not even close to being a top 5-10 pick even. he really does nothing to help his team win.

Major Cold
05-23-2009, 01:18 PM
He has improved his game each and every game while in college. He has defense and rebounding. If I am not mistaken we need that.

Shade
05-23-2009, 03:22 PM
I think Hill would be a great fit here.

Mr. Sobchak
05-23-2009, 03:48 PM
jordan hill is a lesser version of jason thompson. talent-wise, he's not even close to being a top 5-10 pick even. he really does nothing to help his team win.


Wait, rebounding and shot blocking don't help your team win? News to me...

croz24
05-23-2009, 04:52 PM
Wait, rebounding and shot blocking don't help your team win? News to me...

stats don't mean everything. sometimes it's beneficial to actually watch some players play before we comment on their abilities and how those abilities might translate to the nba...arizona was a horrible basketball team last year for the amount of "talent" they had. jordan hill did not make that team better and is really lacking in the basketball iq department.

jhondog28
05-23-2009, 04:57 PM
I think what everyone is saying is that this draft sucks and no one should want to trade up. To a certain extent I agree but I just have a gut feeling about Hill and he could end up being the rookie of the year. Griffin does not stand a chance at winning that award based solely on the fact he will be playing for the clippers and some how they will mess that whole thing up.

Major Cold
05-23-2009, 06:10 PM
I wish people would use the stats "don't mean everything" to other players....like sayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.....Jeff Foster.

vnzla81
05-23-2009, 06:14 PM
I wish people would use the stats "don't mean everything" to other players....like sayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.....Jeff Foster.

or Murphy

flox
05-23-2009, 06:29 PM
or Murphy

Or big baby davis and tyler hansbrough.

Mr. Sobchak
05-23-2009, 06:58 PM
stats don't mean everything. sometimes it's beneficial to actually watch some players play before we comment on their abilities and how those abilities might translate to the nba...arizona was a horrible basketball team last year for the amount of "talent" they had. jordan hill did not make that team better and is really lacking in the basketball iq department.


Maybe you shouldn't accuse me of not watching the players I comment on. Unlike most people here I don't comment on players I have just read about without a disclaimer. Perhaps their underachieving could be attributed to having three different coaches to play under in two years (not to mention the a-hole Kevin O'neil)...what a novel thought.

croz24
05-23-2009, 07:16 PM
Maybe you shouldn't accuse me of not watching the players I comment on. Unlike most people here I don't comment on players I have just read about without a disclaimer. Perhaps their underachieving could be attributed to having three different coaches to play under in two years (not to mention the a-hole Kevin O'neil)...what a novel thought.

well, i read your "jeff green" post before i replied to your comment on here...you do have a point about the arizona coaching situation. that exact coaching situation is something i cited many times in talking about bayless' potential. so it'd be hypocritical of me to not give hill the benefit of the doubt there...any other year however, i can almost guarantee hill is barely talked about as a lottery pick. he's just not that good imo. the point is moot however as hill will be drafted far before our pick, and the pacers just won't trade up.

Mr. Sobchak
05-23-2009, 07:18 PM
I guess we'll just have to see...

I do agree that in any other draft he wouldn't be nearly this high but I can't say that he wouldn't be one of the top 14 picks.

vnzla81
05-23-2009, 07:41 PM
Or big baby davis and tyler hansbrough.


I was trying to agree with your post, why are you reacting like that? :confused:

I did not know that you like Murphy I don't remember many of the posters here so I don't know their point of view.

Spirit
05-23-2009, 10:33 PM
jordan hill did not make that team better and is really lacking in the basketball iq department.
Exactly what I came to say. He has no IQ to speak of. He's basically a better Ronny Turiaf.

flox
05-24-2009, 02:53 PM
I was trying to agree with your post, why are you reacting like that? :confused:

I did not know that you like Murphy I don't remember many of the posters here so I don't know their point of view.

I think you are confused...that was my first post in this topic.

Hill should be a good bigman in this league. Maybe he'll end up like Bogut.

Kstat
05-24-2009, 03:15 PM
Exactly what I came to say. He has no IQ to speak of. He's basically a better Ronny Turiaf.

Pretty much what everyone said about Chris Bosh.

vnzla81
05-24-2009, 10:46 PM
Or big baby davis and tyler hansbrough.


This was your answer for my saying that Troy Murphy is just numbers


I think you are confused...that was my first post in this topic.

Hill should be a good bigman in this league. Maybe he'll end up like Bogut.

I don't think I am confused.

PR07
05-25-2009, 01:51 AM
I really thought this guy was the perfect fit for us until I saw him play live in the Sweet 16 against Louisville's Samardo Samuels. Hill laid an absolute goose egg in my mind. He finished the night with 6-18 shooting with 14 points, 11 rebounds, 0 blocks, and 4 turnovers; but a lot of those points came in garbage time, and he couldn't seem to buy a bucket with the bigger and stronger Samuels on him.

Granted it was just one game, but a theory that is starting to come true for me is that a lot of the stars in the NBA, had big games in the NCAA tournament, where the light was the brightest. I'd probably compare him to Kwame Brown, a guy that has seemingly has all the tools, but doesn't really have the toughness or court smarts to really be anything more than a rotational role player.

Kstat
05-25-2009, 11:42 AM
A lot of stars in the NBA also laid huge eggs in the NCAA tournament, or didn't play at all.

Meanwhile, a lot of busts had monster outings in the NCAAs only to never reach that level again.

Basically, how you perform in the NCAAs means squat. You don't pre-determine a player's entire decade-long NBA career by 1-3 tournament games. That's ridiculous.

And Kwame Brown does not have "all the tools." have you seen him play? He has the smallest hands of any 7-footer in history and they are made of granite to boot. How does someone that can barely HOLD THE BALL have "all the tools?" That's like saying Ray Charles had "all the tools" to be a great Major League Pitcher.

I'd take Jordan Hill with the 5th pick, and I'd never even think twice about it. The kid can play.

flox
05-25-2009, 11:48 AM
This was your answer for my saying that Troy Murphy is just numbers



I don't think I am confused.

I think you are. You said you were trying to support my post when I didn't make a post before that one, and I think that those two players are overrated due to numbers, whereas Murphy isn't due to his numbers.

As for Kwame, he had all the tools, but was poorly developed. Put him on a different team that wasn't run by Jordan and he could have been great.

Kstat
05-25-2009, 11:52 AM
He was never going to be great. HE CAN'T HOLD ON TO A BASKETBALL.

HOW DOES SOMEONE THAT CANT CATCH A BASKETBALL BE GREAT?

flox
05-25-2009, 12:03 PM
He was never going to be great. HE CAN'T HOLD ON TO A BASKETBALL.

HOW DOES SOMEONE THAT CANT CATCH A BASKETBALL BE GREAT?

He has good enough size and speed to become a Chandler type of player, and I think Chandler is pretty great. I think he could have been a defensive dyamno with some great explosion moves had he been in a different franchise

Kstat
05-25-2009, 12:10 PM
Chandler has hands sufficient enough to grab rebounds and catch lob passes thrown 15 feet in the air.

Was Kwame Brown going to get bigger hands on another franchise? Is there a bionic hand transplant option I don't know about on certain NBA clubs? Could we have rebuilt him bigger, stronger, and somewhat less clumsy than he was before?

BTW, Chandler is in no way "great." He can play well in a two-dimensional role if you ask him to, but nobody is ever going to confuse him for being "great." And Chandler's "great explosion move" entails jumping really high in the air and catching a lob pass thrown by chris paul. He has nothing else.

Chandler is not wanted by his own team, and the last team that traded for him demanded a refund.

The sad thing is, Kwame will never even be THAT good.

Major Cold
05-25-2009, 12:13 PM
:lurk:

PR07
05-25-2009, 02:16 PM
A lot of stars in the NBA also laid huge eggs in the NCAA tournament, or didn't play at all.

Meanwhile, a lot of busts had monster outings in the NCAAs only to never reach that level again.

Basically, how you perform in the NCAAs means squat. You don't pre-determine a player's entire decade-long NBA career by 1-3 tournament games. That's ridiculous.

I'd take Jordan Hill with the 5th pick, and I'd never even think twice about it. The kid can play.

Some of the biggest stars in the NBA, also had some of the biggest tournament runs. Melo and Wade had huge tourney runs. Granger was big in the tournament he was it, ditto for Brandon Rush. Guess who came up small? Jamaal Tinsley. I'm sure you could come up with countless examples of players who played well in the tourney only to never have been heard of again, and you'd be right.

However, if you're going to try to pinpoint players who are going to be successful at the NBA level, who are supposed stars of their team, they should be able to come up big in the NCAA tournament. A junior should not get that outplayed by a freshman, and expect me to think he'll be a really good pro. It was honestly one of the worst performances I've ever seen from a highly touted player. My buddies and I were left thinking THATS Jordan Hill. That guy's a lottery pick!

No way I touch Jordan Hill until the late lottery. He looks like he'll be Kwame Brown meets Ronny Turiaf.



Weaknesses:
- All-around offensive polish
- Decision making
- Advanced post moves
- Left hand
- Questionable hands
- Defensive fundamentals
- Foul prone
- Man to man defense
- Average basketball IQ
- Older than class peers
- Passing skills
- Free throw shooting
- Inconsistent shooter


Kwame, is that you?

Kstat
05-25-2009, 02:28 PM
A junior should not get that outplayed by a freshman, and expect me to think he'll be a really good pro. It was honestly one of the worst performances I've ever seen from a highly touted player. My buddies and I were left thinking THATS Jordan Hill. That guy's a lottery pick!

...considering Arizona was the dead last team to even make it to the tournament, the fact Arizona even made it that far was impressive.

Jordan Hill wasn't going 1 on 1 the entire game either. He was facing double teams the entire game.

And I take it Blake Griffin isnt a #1 pick either, since he got slapped around 20 times as bad last year against Louisville in the tournament?

PR07
05-25-2009, 02:45 PM
Arizona underachieved all season, it's their own fault that they barely made the tournament. They should've easily made the tournament with Budinger, Hill, and Wise. The fact that they barely squeaked in with 3 darn good college players should be another red flag on Hill. I don't really see how you could call that impressive, when they should've been there the whole time. I mean did anyone honestly treat Arizona as a #12 in their bracket?

If he's that good, he's going to face double teams in the pros. How you handle double teams is another factor on how successful a player can be. It's what makes Tim Duncan, Tim Duncan. Do you lower your shoulder and try to bull through it? Do you hesitate too long only to lose the ball? Do you pass out? Do you look for a cutter? Questions...questions...questions.

PacerDude
05-25-2009, 02:45 PM
I love these threads.

The draft is far from an exact science - even for the people that get paid to do it. Take a look at these names:

Martell Webster, Ike Diogu, Yaroslav Korolev, Sean May, Joey Graham.

What do they have in common ?? All drafted before Granger. There's only about a dozen or so players from a given draft that go on to make an impact on the league. And for a lot of those, it takes about 3 years or so before they prove themselves one way or another. The 'draft gurus' are just as oblivious as the teams are when it comes to evaluating a player. It's so much about the situation a player is going into, the continuity of (or lack of) the coaching staff, teammates, and on and on. What a player does in college or a short tourney run usually doesn't translate into NBA success or failure.

PR07
05-25-2009, 02:59 PM
What a player does in college or a short tourney run usually doesn't translate into NBA success or failure.

I don't agree with this at all. I think most of the really good college players tend to be good pros if they have any type of good athletic ability or any sound offensive game besides getting to the rim and dunking. Guys like Redick or Morrison, you knew they weren't going to be as good because of their athletic limitations. It's just using common sense.

Granger was a good college player:


Granger, who was also an NBA All-Star this season, played at UNM from 2003-05, earning first-team all-MWC honors both seasons. He led the Lobos to the 2005 NCAA Tournament and was named All-America by Basketball Times. In his senior season, Granger was the only player in NCAA Division I to average at least 18 points (18.8 ppg), 8 rebounds (8.9 rpg), 2 blocks (2.0 bpg), 2 steals (2.1 spg) and 2 assists (2.4 apg) a game.

PacerDude
05-25-2009, 03:50 PM
Granger was a good college player:I'm not saying he wasn't.

I was just pointing out the frequent blind luck that's involved with draft picks. And the frequent 'damn, shouldn't have picked him' guys.

And maybe poking a bit at the people around here that say Player-X will be a good pro. You don't know. You just don't know. You may think you know, but you don't know.

eldubious
05-25-2009, 04:14 PM
I don't believe Jordan Hill will even go 5th in the draft, he could be the annual anvil of the draft (the player who has a significant drop). He has an underachieving overhypeness about him, somebody his size should dominate. I would even go as far as to say he drops out of the top 10 and probably goes 11th or 12th.

Kstat
05-25-2009, 07:19 PM
He's going to wind up like those other tournament underachievers at Arizona that never had success in the NBA...like Andre Igoudala , Jason Terry and Gilbert Arenas...

jhondog28
05-25-2009, 08:26 PM
He's going to wind up like those other tournament underachievers at Arizona that never had success in the NBA...like Andre Igoudala , Jason Terry and Gilbert Arenas...


I detect sarcasm and I like it because I agree totally with you. Arizona seems to always produce good NBA talent. Watch as he falls to detroit and Kstat laughs at you all!

PR07
05-25-2009, 11:50 PM
Arizona's track record should have nothing to do with evaluating Jordan Hill as a prospect. I mean if we want to go that route, who's the last "good" big man that Arizona has produced? Loren Woods? Yeah, I went there.

eldubious
05-25-2009, 11:55 PM
He's going to wind up like those other tournament underachievers at Arizona that never had success in the NBA...like Andre Igoudala , Jason Terry and Gilbert Arenas...

Or Channing Frye, Salim Stoudamire, and Jarred Bayless.

Kemo
05-26-2009, 12:05 AM
Chandler is not wanted by his own team

I'm sorry , but I gotta call BuLLSH:censored:T on that one ...

CableKC
05-26-2009, 12:08 AM
If Hill somehow drops to the 13th spot ( which I don't think he would drop past the Nets ).......of course, depending on who else is available....I would seriously consider drafting him.

As we are starting to learn in the PD Mock Draft that we are doing.......once you get past the 9th pick......IMHO.....who would be considered the "best player available" is clearly debateable where many players has as many "positives" as they have "negatives".

CableKC
05-26-2009, 12:09 AM
I'm sorry , but I gotta call BuLLSH:censored:T on that one ...
Yeah...I agree. To be clear.....the Hornets don't want him for financial reasons....not because they think that he doesn't help them or have the skills that they would want on the Team.

Kstat
05-26-2009, 02:37 AM
the fact remains that they keep trying to trade him and they can't do it.