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owl
05-23-2009, 10:19 AM
There has been some discussion that Rubio does not want to play for Memphis because
he has a large buy-out and the only way he can recoup this money is through endorsements.
I would like others to comment on endorsement oppurtunities. Are they better in big markets? Peyton and Lebron seem to be doing well. I believe if you are good those
things will come regardless of where you are.

Is this a red herring and he really just does not want to play for Memphis?

vnzla81
05-23-2009, 10:23 AM
There has been some discussion that Rubio does not want to play for Memphis because
he has a large buy-out and the only way he can recoup this money is through endorsements.
I would like others to comment on endorsement oppurtunities. Are they better in big markets? Peyton and Lebron seem to be doing well. I believe if you are good those
things will come regardless of where you are.

Is this a red herring and he really just does not want to play for Memphis?

If he goes to a city where there is a big spanish population like New York he could make more money and also who really wants to go to memphis? they are selling the team and are not trying to spend money.

Major Cold
05-23-2009, 10:33 AM
I have posted before that because of his Hispanic heritage, he will have oppurtunities in that market. Mark Sanchez is reported to get 10M in endorsements. I really see it more difficult for Rubio to get endorsements in markets like OKC and Memphis. I am sure the Hispanic demographic is higher in California. But for him to claim that he will not buyout of his contract if selected by the lesser markable areas, will shoot himself in the foot.

OKC or Memphis will have to trade him or the pick and if he is on record that he will not play with those teams, those teams lose leverage, making a deal more difficult. If you remember Yi and China's outrage of him being there. Eventually he was traded, but they had to sit on him. Yi had no buyout (that I am aware of), while Rubio does.

So if he is selected later in the draft he loses money cause the later you are drafted the less money you will get.

It would be better for him to talk to the GMs and not let his agent blab to the media.

But they both should know this. So that means that the buyout is not a big deal cause the market upgrade from LA and Sacremento is so much more properous than OKC and Memphis that losing 5M is miniscule in proportion to offers that he may have already recieved.

jhondog28
05-23-2009, 11:34 AM
California has a lot of Spaniards? I thought they had a lot of Mexicans. They are two different countries.

Major Cold
05-23-2009, 11:38 AM
Same language, same appeal. Doing commercials in Spanish, does it matter if he is from Mexico or not?

jhondog28
05-23-2009, 11:41 AM
There dialect is totally different as is most of the verbage. I think the closest similarity would be someone from England to America. I am trying to think of an example where an American born player went to England and was still very marketable to English fans in any sport. I cannot think of one right off the top of my head.

Major Cold
05-23-2009, 11:53 AM
Well then I will stop using that. I would think that he being able to speak Spanish, that he could be marketable to the Spanish speaking population. Ahhh well.

jhondog28
05-23-2009, 12:06 PM
I like the thought though. I think international players would feel more comfortable and take on less culture shock in places they could converse with some familiarity. I think Rubio would feel more comfortable if he did not have to face language barriers. So New York, California and Texas seem like they would be pretty good states for that. I just do not know if it would help his marketability being in a Mexican area just because he speaks their same language.

Chewy
05-23-2009, 01:06 PM
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2009/may/23/rubios-agent-doesnt-rule-out-grizzlies

It might have been just a bogus report

vnzla81
05-23-2009, 01:32 PM
There dialect is totally different as is most of the verbage. I think the closest similarity would be someone from England to America. I am trying to think of an example where an American born player went to England and was still very marketable to English fans in any sport. I cannot think of one right off the top of my head.


You can say that players like Lebron or Kobe are big in english speaking countries.There is examples of the other way around when an english player comes here and he makes a lot of money(Beckam)

VF21
05-24-2009, 09:40 PM
There dialect is totally different as is most of the verbage. I think the closest similarity would be someone from England to America. I am trying to think of an example where an American born player went to England and was still very marketable to English fans in any sport. I cannot think of one right off the top of my head.

Being from California, I have to totally disagree with your basic premise. Ricky Rubio would be VERY marketable here in California. Francisco Garcia, who also isn't Mexican, has done incredibly well with the Latino population here...and I have every reason to believe it would be the same for Rubio.

docpaul
05-24-2009, 09:52 PM
John Givony over at DraftExpress has some more details on Rubio:

http://www.draftexpress.com/blog/Jonathan-Givony/#NBA-Draft-Roundup-May-24-3227



Scott Cacciola of the Memphis Commercial Appeal pens an excellent introductory piece about potential Grizzlies target Ricky Rubio (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Ricky-Rubio-1155/), with quotes from the likes of Tony Barone Sr, Pau Gasol (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Pau-Gasol-2531/), Fran Fraschilla, Chris Collins, Lang Whitaker and yours truly.

”General manager Chris Wallace and coach Lionel Hollins (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Lionel-Hollins-2851/) spent Saturday in Spain to scout Rubio again, a trip clouded by an Internet report that indicated Rubio may not want to sign with Memphis. Jonathan Givony, president and director of scouting for DraftExpress.com, cited an anonymous source last week who said Dan Fegan, Rubio's agent, wants Rubio in Los Angeles, where the Clippers hold the first overall pick.

Whether this is mere posturing on Fegan's part is unclear. But if there are obvious obstacles -- including a reported $6 million buyout from Rubio's contract with DKV Joventut – many scouts and coaches familiar with Rubio think the Grizzlies would be wise to surmount them.

"He is by far the smartest player in the draft," Givony said. "His knowledge of the game, his overall feel –it’s amazing. Wherever he goes, those fans are going to fall in love with him. He's such a fun player to watch, so unpredictable, so creative. To me, it's a no-brainer for a franchise like Memphis."

This weekend we were able to learn quite a bit more about the Rubio situation, after speaking with one of the best possible sources on this matter. Unfortunately this source would rather not be named, for obvious reasons. Regardless, this is information that almost anyone interested in the <nobr id="itxt_nobr_3_0" style="font-weight: normal; font-size: 100%;">NBAhttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/mag-glass_10x10.gif</nobr> (http://www.draftexpress.com/blog/Jonathan-Givony/#) draft would like to read, though, so we decided to run it.

From what we can gather, Rubio is most certainly going to want to have a large say in the team that drafts him, and if he’s not satisfied with where he lands, he may just decide not to ever come over, which would obviously be a huge embarrassment for the team that picks him. He is in a great situation with his hometown team outside of Barcelona, and it wouldn’t make sense to leave there for anything less than the perfect spot from his standpoint.

“The bottom line here is that Ricky has a large buyout—5.75 million Euros, both for this year and the year after. Depending on the team that selects him, he’s going to make a decision on whether he comes over or not. If he’s not satisfied, there is a very real possibility that he doesn’t come. His buyout is going to cost him a lot of money, and if it doesn’t make sense for him, he won’t do it. He is going to have to pay for the privilege of playing in the NBA”

According to the source, Rubio’s decision is going to come down to two things: winning and the role he’ll play for the team that picks him. The size of the market of the team that drafts him is apparently irrelevant, since his appeal will be on a global scale, reaching far past his team’s city limits.

With that in mind, it appears that the Memphis Grizzlies will have to make a very strong sales pitch to Rubio for him to move off his initial stance of not wanting to play for them. Rubio’s concerns stem from a number of factors, ranging from the potential poor fit of playing alongside a very ball-dominant guard in O.J. Mayo (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/O.J.-Mayo-238/), to the negative experiences conveyed to him by the likes of Juan Carlos Navarro (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Juan-Carlos-Navarro-5183/) and Pau Gasol (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Pau-Gasol-2531/).

Oklahoma is a more attractive situation, but there are concerns there about how he fits with Russell Westbrook (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Russell-Westbrook-5062/) and whether the two can play together. For now they are not being ruled out.

The question now is how Memphis will respond. Can Chris Wallace and company convince Rubio that his concerns are unfounded? The Grizzlies have not made it a secret that they consider O.J. Mayo (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/O.J.-Mayo-238/) to be their point guard of the future, and it may be in their best interest to “maximize the asset” in the words of our source, by trading the pick. This is not going to be a hostile situation, though, so don’t expect any fireworks in the media. Behind the scenes, efforts will be made to steer him the direction of the teams that appear to be most attractive, mainly Sacramento, Dallas, Indiana, Portland and New York, although not all those teams may have the assets or the interest level needed to get a deal done with Memphis. At this stage, Rubio appears unlikely to pull out of the draft.

What’s interesting is that Memphis’ scouting mission to Spain this weekend may not have gone quite as well as planned, as Rubio’s team was beaten handily by Real Madrid in game three of the playoffs, behind a very average showing by the Spanish prodigy. Rubio posted 6 points, 3 assists, 5 turnovers and 3 steals on 2/6 shooting in 26 minutes of action. Both Memphis GM Chris Wallace and head coach Lionel Hollins (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Lionel-Hollins-2851/) were in attendance. Hmm, Foster for Jaric and pick? :) Rubio has the potential to be a franchise-level player.

CableKC
05-24-2009, 10:05 PM
I fail to see how Indiana would be more "attractive" to a player like Rubio then any other team that wants an upgrade at the PG spot. If "attractive" means that team has an interest in a future PG that would likely get guaranteed Starter minutes......then half the teams in the league could seem attractive.....heck....you might as well add Golden State....Portland.....Houston..etc. Or does he mean "attractive" as in huge market with a large European population from Spain?

I guess the writer of the article would have to define what "attractive" means.

owl
05-24-2009, 10:11 PM
Indiana as a mentioned destination? Would the Pacers want him? Do the Pacers have
enough assets to get him in a draft day trade?
Bruno mentioned in his blog that if the Pacers do not trade up into the top three they
most likely would trade down. Things that make you go hmmmmmm.
On first blush I would not be interested but maybe. Two firsts and a point guard for
Rubio? I just do not know enough about this player. Is he injury prone? Can he defend
individually and in a team mode?

owl
05-24-2009, 10:16 PM
I fail to see how Indiana would be more "attractive" to a player like Rubio then any other team that wants an upgrade at the PG spot. If "attractive" means that team has an interest in a future PG that would likely get guaranteed Starter minutes......then half the teams in the league could seem attractive.....heck....you might as well add Golden State....Portland.....Houston..etc. Or does he mean "attractive" as in huge market with a large European population from Spain?

I guess the writer of the article would have to define what "attractive" means.

I think attractive based on style of play. A running, motion type offense.
Indiana has a reasonable hispanic population but I believe a player like Rubio
has universal appeal so I just don't believe endorsements will be a problem wherever he goes. Probably would put a lot of backsides in those empty Conseco seats.

owl
05-24-2009, 10:19 PM
According to the source, Rubio’s decision is going to come down to two things: winning and the role he’ll play for the team that picks him. The size of the market of the team that drafts him is apparently irrelevant, since his appeal will be on a global scale, reaching far past his team’s city limits.


This snippet from the above article backs up what I believe is not the issue and that
is endorsements. It is more about the team itself.

Kemo
05-24-2009, 11:23 PM
If EVER we somehow traded to get draft rights to Rubio... I would crap a gold brick.... and THEN eat it ...enjoying every morsel...


MAKE IT HAPPEN LARRY ...!!!!

PR07
05-25-2009, 01:55 AM
It seems to me that Rubio wants to go to an organization that is well-run and will have the chance to compete in a few years. Teams like Memphis and Oklahoma City may be bottom feeders for years, although OKC seems to know what they're doing now.

ChicagoPacer
05-25-2009, 03:13 AM
I just do not know enough about this player. Is he injury prone? Can he defend
individually and in a team mode?

Rubio is a very intelligent player, so I see no problem with him defending in a team mode. Individually he's got decent lateral quickness, but is small at 6-4 180. He's only 18 and 18 year old basketball players in Europe are much less physically developed than a lot of 18 year old college freshmen here. He's never going to be a Billups, Derron Williams, or Derrick Rose physically. I don't think anyone can tell you if the kid is injury prone. It's not like he's had any major injuries, but how many 18 year olds have? People that age tend to shake anything off other than a catastrophic knee injury. He had a wrist injury (a torn ligament), but that doesn't strike me as something to be worried about. Maybe for a center that draws a lot of contact inside, but as long as his range of motion is restored, it shouldn't affect a point guard.

He is light years ahead of a CP or Rose in terms of court vision when they were in their final college seasons. Rubio is playing better competition as well. The question mark for Rubio will be his ability to physically withstand an 82 game NBA season playing 32-38 minutes a night.

Justin Tyme
05-25-2009, 06:58 AM
John Givony over at DraftExpress has some more details on Rubio:

http://www.draftexpress.com/blog/Jonathan-Givony/#NBA-Draft-Roundup-May-24-3227

Hmm, Foster for Jaric and pick? :) Rubio has the potential to be a franchise-level player.



Memphis isn't going to trade the #2 pick who as you describe Rubio as a potential franchise level player for Foster!!!

People need to come to the realization who/what exactly Foster is, and Foster isn't going to garner a high 1st round pick. Other teams can offer way more than Foster to get the #2 pick. Personally, I'd be surprised if you could get a lower 1st for Foster unless you were taking back a bad player or a bad contract.

owl
05-25-2009, 08:58 AM
Memphis isn't going to trade the #2 pick who as you describe Rubio as a potential franchise level player for Foster!!!

People need to come to the realization who/what exactly Foster is, and Foster isn't going to garner a high 1st round pick. Other teams can offer way more than Foster to get the #2 pick. Personally, I'd be surprised if you could get a lower 1st for Foster unless you were taking back a bad player or a bad contract.

I believe what I proposed is where you would start. Two first round picks and a guard.
You can start with that.

owl
05-25-2009, 09:00 AM
He is light years ahead of a CP or Rose in terms of court vision when they were in their final college seasons. Rubio is playing better competition as well. The question mark for Rubio will be his ability to physically withstand an 82 game NBA season playing 32-38 minutes a night.


That is a good reason to have a additional solid guard on the team to take some of the heat
off of a player like Rubio. Jack would fill that role well. All about team and will do what
ever is asked of him for the teams benefit.

PacerDude
05-25-2009, 09:35 AM
Anyone besides me get the feeling that this kid is a bit over-hyped ??

Hicks
05-25-2009, 09:42 AM
Anyone besides me get the feeling that this kid is a bit over-hyped ??

A little bit. I think he'll be good, though.

jhondog28
05-25-2009, 09:49 AM
Anyone besides me get the feeling that this kid is a bit over-hyped ??

I hope I am wrong because I want international kids to succeed for the betterment of basketball, but man I just think this guy is going to struggle out of the blocks. He is one of those players that to me has to be in the right system. Fast paced up tempo is going to benefit him the most, so if the first team he goes to plays at a half court pace we might see Darko results.

Justin Tyme
05-25-2009, 11:38 AM
I believe what I proposed is where you would start. Two first round picks and a guard.
You can start with that.


So the Pacers are going to trade a guard(Ford??) and this years #13 and next years 1st for Rubio? This is the starting point?


Memphis

Darko
Arthur
09 #2 pick
09 2nd round pick


Indiana

Ford
09 #13
2010 Ist round pick
2009 2nd round pick(Denver)
2010 2nd round pick(Denver)


That should be about right for having to take a chanz on an 18 y.o. who may or may not live up to his billing or who may not decide to ever come to the NBA.

flox
05-25-2009, 11:49 AM
So the Pacers are going to trade a guard(Ford??) and this years #13 and next years 1st for Rubio? This is the starting point?


Memphis

Darko
Arthur
09 #2 pick
09 2nd round pick


Indiana

Ford
09 #13
2010 Ist round pick
2009 2nd round pick(Denver)
2010 2nd round pick(Denver)


That should be about right for having to take a chanz on an 18 y.o. who may or may not live up to his billing or who may not decide to ever come to the NBA.
That is a terrible trade for Memphis.

Kstat
05-25-2009, 11:54 AM
So the Pacers are going to trade a guard(Ford??) and this years #13 and next years 1st for Rubio? This is the starting point?


Memphis

Darko
Arthur
09 #2 pick
09 2nd round pick


Indiana

Ford
09 #13
2010 Ist round pick
2009 2nd round pick(Denver)
2010 2nd round pick(Denver)


That should be about right for having to take a chanz on an 18 y.o. who may or may not live up to his billing or who may not decide to ever come to the NBA.

I think that trade would be awesome. And while Memphis is on whatever narcotics you sent them to agree with this amazingly lopsided trade, you could always send them Roy Hibbert for OJ Mayo.

Anthem
05-25-2009, 12:23 PM
I think that trade would be awesome. And while Memphis is on whatever narcotics you sent them to agree with this amazingly lopsided trade, you could always send them Roy Hibbert for OJ Mayo.
Dude, everybody knows you never trade big for small.

d_c
05-25-2009, 12:29 PM
So the Pacers are going to trade a guard(Ford??) and this years #13 and next years 1st for Rubio? This is the starting point?


Memphis

Darko
Arthur
09 #2 pick
09 2nd round pick


Indiana

Ford
09 #13
2010 Ist round pick
2009 2nd round pick(Denver)
2010 2nd round pick(Denver)


That should be about right for having to take a chanz on an 18 y.o. who may or may not live up to his billing or who may not decide to ever come to the NBA.

Memphis could simply do a lot better than that if they put the pick up for sale.

Coop
05-25-2009, 12:36 PM
That trade isn't possible anyways, no matter how drunk the Memphis FO is. IIRC, you aren't allowed to trade 1st round picks in consecutive years. So the 2nd first rounder would have to be 2011 or later.

Justin Tyme
05-25-2009, 01:51 PM
That trade isn't possible anyways, no matter how drunk the Memphis FO is. IIRC, you aren't allowed to trade 1st round picks in consecutive years. So the 2nd first rounder would have to be 2011 or later.


What you are forgetting is that the Pacers would have a 1st round pick in 09, Memphis', so they wouldn't be out 2 consecutive years w/o a 1st pick.

Justin Tyme
05-25-2009, 02:00 PM
Memphis could simply do a lot better than that if they put the pick up for sale.


For sale or trade? For sale the best they can get is 3 mil. I wouldn't disagree that they could come up with more from another team. My proposed trade was about the best the Pacers could offer under "Owl's guide lines" of a PG and 2 1sts as starters.


If anyone else thinks they can come up with a better Pacer trade under Owl's guide lines, please do! I'm more than willing to critique your trade scenario.

Justin Tyme
05-25-2009, 02:05 PM
I think that trade would be awesome. And while Memphis is on whatever narcotics you sent them to agree with this amazingly lopsided trade, you could always send them Roy Hibbert for OJ Mayo.


Was it Dumars' Darko that made the trade too lopsided? LOL!

Kstat
05-25-2009, 02:12 PM
Was it Dumars' Darko that made the trade too lopsided? LOL!

I have no idea what that's supposed to mean, other than a possible left-field shot at joe dumars because I pointed out that the trade was amazingly lopsided in Indiana's favor.

eldubious
05-25-2009, 04:00 PM
I would think Sacramento has the best chance to trade with Memphis, all they have to do is swap picks and throw in a player. Indiana would have to offer the 13th, future 1st round picks, and a couple of players for Memphis to even listen. I wonder why the Pacers would want to mortgage the future for an international 18 year old PG, unless they are convinced he is another Steve Nash.

eldubious
05-25-2009, 04:52 PM
Indiana as a mentioned destination? Would the Pacers want him? Do the Pacers have
enough assets to get him in a draft day trade?
Bruno mentioned in his blog that if the Pacers do not trade up into the top three they
most likely would trade down. Things that make you go hmmmmmm.
On first blush I would not be interested but maybe. Two firsts and a point guard for
Rubio? I just do not know enough about this player. Is he injury prone? Can he defend
individually and in a team mode?

Combine that with Bird saying there aren't that too many bigs they like at the
13th spot. I'm thinking they'll trade back and take one; BJ Mullens, Lawal, or Pendergraph.

owl
05-25-2009, 05:47 PM
For sale or trade? For sale the best they can get is 3 mil. I wouldn't disagree that they could come up with more from another team. My proposed trade was about the best the Pacers could offer under "Owl's guide lines" of a PG and 2 1sts as starters.


If anyone else thinks they can come up with a better Pacer trade under Owl's guide lines, please do! I'm more than willing to critique your trade scenario.

Those were my suggestions as what it would possibly take. Maybe someone can dig
up some history on other trades in the draft where a high pick was obtained.
I believe two firsts and a player is a pretty good starting point. Maybe in the trade
you have to take back something they dont want in exchange for
TJ Ford. I don't believe the Pacers can risk more than that for a very young player.
What did it cost LA to get Kobe? Probably not much considering how often
teams just give players to LA like Kareem,Shaq,Kobe, and Pau. Did I miss anyone?
My point being it sometimes does not take the whole team to pull in a player.

Justin Tyme
05-25-2009, 07:36 PM
I believe two firsts and a player is a pretty good starting point. Maybe in the trade you have to take back something they dont want in exchange for
TJ Ford.

I don't believe the Pacers can risk more than that for a very young player.




I did that with Darko. Darko has been with 3 different teams since Dumars drafted him. The contract he signed with Orlando was for far more than he was worth. He is paid more than Foster! I felt if the Pacers had to take him back in a trade when the following season he'll be back in Europe playing then Arthur as a sweetner was appropriate filler. Ford is better than Darko and their salaries match. If Arthur added is too much, then Memphis and the Pacers can just swap 09 2nds.

I agree.

Kstat
05-25-2009, 07:49 PM
he signed the contract with memphis, not orlando.

TJ ford is also on a crappy contract and unlike Darko, will be under contract PAST next season.

Memphis has Mike Conley. They have no need for TJ Ford when they can just let Darko's deal expire.

When a player becomes an expiring contract, he is no longer an albatross. He has actual value as a commodity.

I'm not sure Memphis would trade Darko for TJ if you offered it in a straight-up deal. There's no way it would somehow be a sweetener in them giving away the #2 pick.

Justin Tyme
05-25-2009, 08:36 PM
Memphis has Mike Conley. They have no need for TJ Ford when they can just let Darko's deal expire.


Conley has done nothing to make me feel he's the future PG for the Grizz. Ford gives them a PG that can produce for 2 years while Conley is in the process of getting it together.

Yes, Darko is an expiring, but he's not the quality player Ford is either. Not to mention Darko couldn't beat out a rookie at starting. The Griz need a good starting PG in Ford more than a bench warmer behind rookies who in 2010-11 will be back in Europe playing with Cabbages, Rasho, and Baston.

Justin Tyme
05-25-2009, 08:41 PM
he signed the contract with memphis, not orlando.

TJ ford is also on a crappy contract and unlike Darko, will be under contract PAST next season.


That makes Memphis look pretty bad.

Unlike Darko, Ford will produce to make his 8 mil contract liveable whereas Darko won't.

Kstat
05-25-2009, 09:55 PM
Conley has done nothing to make me feel he's the future PG for the Grizz. Ford gives them a PG that can produce for 2 years while Conley is in the process of getting it together.

Wow, that's wishful thinking if I ever heard it.

You don't help your young PG develop by bringing in another PG to eat into his minutes.





Yes, Darko is an expiring, but he's not the quality player Ford is either. Not to mention Darko couldn't beat out a rookie at starting. The Griz need a good starting PG in Ford more than a bench warmer behind rookies who in 2010-11 will be back in Europe playing with Cabbages, Rasho, and Baston.

You're kidding me.

No team is going to start TJ Ford again. Not even Memphis. He's lost his job everywhere he's been. There's zero incentive for them to bring in an older jorneyman on a longer contract that isn't a major upgrade.


Yes, Darko is an expiring, but he's not the quality player Ford is either. Not to mention Darko couldn't beat out a rookie at starting. The Griz need a good starting PG in Ford more than a bench warmer behind rookies who in 2010-11 will be back in Europe playing with Cabbages, Rasho, and Baston.


Neither player produces enough to make their contract "liveable."

8 million for a backup is absurd. Given a choice between the two, you take the guy with fewer years left.

Given the choice? Any team in the NBA would rather have 8 million worth of empty cap space in 2010 than TJ Ford. They can use that 8 million to find a much better value.

Memphis had Lowry, Crittenton and Conley last year. They chose to keep Conley. That alone tells me they're pretty happy with him.

Will Galen
05-25-2009, 11:06 PM
Individually he's got decent lateral quickness, but is small at 6-4 180.

Six-four is tall for a point guard, and his weight is decent for an 18 year old.

Justin Tyme
05-26-2009, 05:03 AM
You don't help your young PG develop by bringing in another PG to eat into his minutes.

No team is going to start TJ Ford again. Not even Memphis. He's lost his job everywhere he's been. There's zero incentive for them to bring in an older jorneyman on a longer contract that isn't a major upgrade.

Neither player produces enough to make their contract "liveable."

8 million for a backup is absurd. Given a choice between the two, you take the guy with fewer years left.



You do when the young PG isn't getting the job done. Keeping Conley over Crittenton and Lowry doesn't say much! Crittenton is with his 3rd team since being drafted 19th in 07 by the Lakers, and Washington is still looking for a good PG. Conley just happened to be the best of the lot. I won't be surprised to see Mayo ending up as Memphis' PG in the future, and Conley elsewhere.

Ford's 8 mil contract would be as a starter until his contract expires and that's liveable. Conley isn't going to replace Ford as the starter. Conley was overhyped in the draft, and he came out too early which was a huge mistake.

Now, lets hear your Pacer trade scenario using Owl's parameters of a PG and 2 1st picks as the starting point of a trade for Memphis' #2. I'll be interested in seeing it!

owl
05-26-2009, 09:01 AM
Sam Smith had the following to say about Rubio and a possible NY interest.

But maybe the Grizzlies get Lee and No. 8 and the Mike D’Antoni gets his Nashesque point guard (no shot, I know) and maybe an expiring deal like Darko’s. Seems like there’s something there, if not exactly that.


So NY gets Rubio and a expiring contract.
Memphis gets a player and #8

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++

That makes my suggestion of two firsts and a player look pretty good. Smith describes
this draft as a one player draft and then everyone else. Griffin is the only sure thing
with Thabeet and Rubio having some question marks and then another drop off to the next group of players.

ChicagoPacer
05-26-2009, 09:15 AM
Six-four is tall for a point guard, and his weight is decent for an 18 year old.

I agree he might fill out fine, but when you look at the kid, you realize that physically, he needs to put on weight to be effective. He has a nice change of pace, but he's not extraordinarily fast or quick. He'll need to improve his shooting to get separation from players. Until at least one of those two things happen, he is going to be guarded very closely and muscled around.

Kstat
05-26-2009, 11:23 AM
Now, lets hear your Pacer trade scenario using Owl's parameters of a PG and 2 1st picks as the starting point of a trade for Memphis' #2. I'll be interested in seeing it!

I wouldn't, because there isn't one that works for both sides. Any deal with granger is too risky for the pacers, and any deal without granger is sadly lopsided in indiana's favor. Not happening.


throwing in future 1sts and a guard for Rubio is fantasy world. There isn't a single PG on Indiana's roster that anybody wants, nor does their pick this year hold any weight in this shallow draft.

Justin Tyme
05-26-2009, 12:28 PM
I wouldn't, because there isn't one that works for both sides. Any deal with granger is too risky for the pacers, and any deal without granger is sadly lopsided in indiana's favor. Not happening.


There isn't a single PG on Indiana's roster that anybody wants, nor does their pick this year hold any weight in this shallow draft.



I knew you would take the easy way out, b/c you didn't want your trade to be critiqued!


Are you one of the 29 GM's? If not, then it's just nothing more than your opinion which doesn't make it so, now does it? We'll just have to disagree about the worth of Ford and/or Jack to other teams. No use continuing this conversation, so have a nice cheerful day.:)

Infinite MAN_force
05-26-2009, 01:47 PM
As much as I like Rubio any realistic scenario involving a trade up will involve Rush and/or Hibbert and our pick. Which is just simply not worth it.

Yeah, if Ford + #13 + a future first + 2 second rounders + taking on Marco Jaric's contract + The rights to Stanko and Lorbek get the deal done? Sign me up :D. Hell kinda sounds like the Pau Gasol trade.

Kstat
05-26-2009, 03:46 PM
I knew you would take the easy way out, b/c you didn't want your trade to be critiqued!


Yep, because if my time on here has proven anything, it's that I'm afraid of being criticized...

owl
05-26-2009, 05:05 PM
As much as I like Rubio any realistic scenario involving a trade up will involve Rush and/or Hibbert and our pick. Which is just simply not worth it.

Yeah, if Ford + #13 + a future first + 2 second rounders + taking on Marco Jaric's contract + The rights to Stanko and Lorbek get the deal done? Sign me up :D. Hell kinda sounds like the Pau Gasol trade.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++

Here is what it took to get Gasol, a proven, legitimate center.

The Los Angeles Lakers have acquired forward Pau Gasol in a trade with the Memphis Grizzlies, it was announced today by General Manager Mitch Kupchak. The Lakers will also receive the Grizzlies second round draft choice in 2010. In exchange Memphis will receive forward Kwame Brown, guard Javaris Crittenton, guard Aaron McKie (who the Lakers signed earlier today), the draft rights to Marc Gasol and first round picks in 2008 and 2010.

Gasol, a 7th year player out of Spain, is averaging 18.9 points, 8.8 rebounds and 1.44 blocked shots per game this season. The 27 year old 7’0” forward/center has career averages of 18.8 points and 8.6 rebounds. A 2006 NBA All-Star and 2001-02 NBA Rookie of the Year, Gasol also won a gold medal with Spain at the 2006 FIBA World Championships while being named tournament MVP.

The Lakers gave up none of their desired players and received Gasol, a most likely very
high second round pick in 2010. The Laker gave up pick 28 last year and probably
28-30 in 2010. An expiring contract to Memphis and two guards.

I proposed two moderately high first round picks, a proven guard, a second rounder,
and take back a contract they dont want in exchange for TJ.
Lakers obtained an All-Star and the Pacers are taking some significant risk.
I don't believe I am that far off.

OakMoses
05-26-2009, 05:15 PM
In the Gasol brothers trade, Memphis was actually very high on Marc Gasol. It appears they had good reason to be. I don't think it's fair to completely discount his presence in this trade.

For anyone interested in Rubio, this is an excellent article:

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-40-131/Ricky-Rubio--Bursting-with-Potential--but-No-Quick-Fix.html

Doddage
05-26-2009, 05:19 PM
The difference is, that the Lakers made that trade at the perfectly right time. Memphis was trying to shed salary and Kwame's contract was one of the most attractive expiring deals at the time. So, all LA had to do was package that with some other attractive assets (draft picks and young talent) and they were able to get Gasol. In general, you're not going to find a lot of teams that are willing to sell their premiere talent for dirt-cheap, unless their ownership wants to cut costs or management is trying to get under the luxury tax (i.e. Denver with Camby).

You're not likely to land a Gasol-type deal with a rookie since their contracts are not as large as a superstar's. In fact, those are the type of contracts that cash-conservative teams want.

OakMoses
05-26-2009, 05:42 PM
I don't think this would happen, but ...

Troy Murphy would be a much better fit in Memphis than TJ Ford.

Murphy + #13 + an additional 1st rounder

for

#2, Marko Jaric, and Greg Buckner

That works, the Grizzlies get a very useful player, take on no additional salary (all 3 contracts expire in the same year), and 2 draft picks. They drop 11 draft spots and give away 2 non-rotation players with bad contracts.

If the Pacers were to do this, however, we'd have a glut of guards and would have to move at least one, but maybe two of them. A roster with Jack, Ford, Diener, Tinsley, Rubio, Jaric, Rush, and Buckner is a little thin up front.

owl
05-26-2009, 07:12 PM
Thanks for the link on Rubio. It basically confirms what I already suspected. There is risk
but the payoff could be big. He needs to play behind another guard initially
to give him time without the pressure. It may take 3-4 years before he really takes off.
Look how long it tool Billups.

Ballerzfan
05-26-2009, 07:43 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMCor5nREF8&feature=related

No matter which team drafts R2, his teammates had better be ready for a pass at any time.

Kstat
05-26-2009, 08:02 PM
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++

Here is what it took to get Gasol, a proven, legitimate center.

The Los Angeles Lakers have acquired forward Pau Gasol in a trade with the Memphis Grizzlies, it was announced today by General Manager Mitch Kupchak. The Lakers will also receive the Grizzlies second round draft choice in 2010. In exchange Memphis will receive forward Kwame Brown, guard Javaris Crittenton, guard Aaron McKie (who the Lakers signed earlier today), the draft rights to Marc Gasol and first round picks in 2008 and 2010.

Gasol, a 7th year player out of Spain, is averaging 18.9 points, 8.8 rebounds and 1.44 blocked shots per game this season. The 27 year old 7’0” forward/center has career averages of 18.8 points and 8.6 rebounds. A 2006 NBA All-Star and 2001-02 NBA Rookie of the Year, Gasol also won a gold medal with Spain at the 2006 FIBA World Championships while being named tournament MVP.

The Lakers gave up none of their desired players and received Gasol, a most likely very
high second round pick in 2010. The Laker gave up pick 28 last year and probably
28-30 in 2010. An expiring contract to Memphis and two guards.

I proposed two moderately high first round picks, a proven guard, a second rounder,
and take back a contract they dont want in exchange for TJ.
Lakers obtained an All-Star and the Pacers are taking some significant risk.
I don't believe I am that far off.

When Rubio is on a max contract and the grizzlies are looking to shed salary, then those two scenarios might be remotely comparable.

ChicagoPacer
05-26-2009, 09:08 PM
I proposed two moderately high first round picks, a proven guard, a second rounder,
and take back a contract they dont want in exchange for TJ.
Lakers obtained an All-Star and the Pacers are taking some significant risk.
I don't believe I am that far off.

Like KStat mentioned, these are two entirely different situations. Not to mention you cherry-picked one of the most lopsided trades in history. These guys aren't in salary dump mode anymore. Memphis has some nice young pieces at SG, PG, SF, and C. Yes, I included Conley in those nice young pieces. He didn't play consistently earlier in the year, but the last 25 games of the season or so from March on he was entirely different. He got 36 minutes a night and put up 14.5 ppg and 5.4 apg. His steals went up as did his shooting from everywhere, which was always the knock on him. He finished the year strong, hitting 49% of his 2s, 44% of his 3s, and 87% at the line from March through the end of the year. His assist totals aren't exactly impressive, but he's a 21 year old kid and the Grizzlies lineup needs some time to gel.

What Memphis needs is help inside and some veterans to add depth and mentor their youth. TJ Ford doesn't fit the bill. Keeping Granger off the table, the only players we have that Memphis would covet are Hibbert, Murphy, and Foster. Given our weakness inside and the lack of available interior players in the FA market, we're not giving those guys up without a decent big in return. In other words, Memphis' personnel needs are pretty much the same as ours, so barring some sort of a three-way trade, it will never happen.

If this was the Pacers team from around ten years ago, I could see us dumping our pick + a Davis for their pick and something in return. Mark Jackson would groom Rubio as his replacement. Basically, replace Bender with Rubio in the Bender trade. We just don't have the pieces or incentive to give up what we would need to in order to get Rubio right now.

The real trade fun for us will begin toward the end of next season. With Dun, Murphy, Foster, and Ford all set to expire after the following year, any of those players could demand a trade premium from contenders looking to add depth in Feb.

Kid Minneapolis
05-27-2009, 11:12 AM
You're kidding me.

No team is going to start TJ Ford again. Not even Memphis. He's lost his job everywhere he's been. There's zero incentive for them to bring in an older jorneyman on a longer contract that isn't a major upgrade.

Eh, I don't agree that he won't start again. He is right on the fence of being a starter and great backup, so he'll land somewhere where their PG situation needs help. Since he's left the Bucks, TJ has managed to land in situations where his team has two quality PGs, splitting minutes.

For example, I never woulda thought Rafer Alston would develop into a full-time starter, either, and he didn't really begin starting until his 6th season, I still don't know if I think he's the world's greatest starting PG, but here he is running the show for the Magic deep into the playoffs. Ford has holes in his game, but like most players, as time goes by they start to fix things.

owl
05-27-2009, 11:47 AM
When Rubio is on a max contract and the grizzlies are looking to shed salary, then those two scenarios might be remotely comparable.

The Pacers getting Rubio is highly unlikely to happen. However with a little discernment
you can see roughly what it takes to obtain a quality player. When Rubio tells Memphis he
won't play there it just might tilt the deal another teams way. Like Memphis wanting to
shed salary. It tilted the deal toward LA.

Open your mind.

Kstat
05-27-2009, 12:19 PM
No. You cannot use that comparison.

I could also post what it took the Lakers to get Wilt Chamberlain. That doesn't mean it has any basis in this discussion whatsoever.

idioteque
05-27-2009, 12:32 PM
What I am interested in is why is Rubio's agent interested in him playing for Indiana? Are we recognized as having young talent and being a team on the rise? We have never been geographically or demographically attractive to superstar players. I don't get it?

rexnom
05-27-2009, 12:59 PM
What I am interested in is why is Rubio's agent interested in him playing for Indiana? Are we recognized as having young talent and being a team on the rise? We have never been geographically or demographically attractive to superstar players. I don't get it?
Thank you! Who knows? But if we are one of those teams, for whatever reason, we need to take advantage.

The comparable trade, I think, is the Francis to Houston deal in 1999.

The Grizzlies got then "Michael Dickerson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Dickerson), Othella Harrington (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Othella_Harrington), Antoine Carr (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine_Carr) and Brent Price (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brent_Price), plus first- and second-round picks" (according to wikipedia).

We can definitely beat that deal if Rubio doesn't want to go there and they still want to pick him. They might just pass and draft Thabeet. Then, of course, OK City will be in the same situation. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

count55
05-27-2009, 01:07 PM
What I am interested in is why is Rubio's agent interested in him playing for Indiana? Are we recognized as having young talent and being a team on the rise? We have never been geographically or demographically attractive to superstar players. I don't get it?

Two words:

Stacy Paetz.

naptownmenace
05-27-2009, 01:12 PM
I fail to see how Indiana would be more "attractive" to a player like Rubio then any other team that wants an upgrade at the PG spot. If "attractive" means that team has an interest in a future PG that would likely get guaranteed Starter minutes......then half the teams in the league could seem attractive.....heck....you might as well add Golden State....Portland.....Houston..etc. Or does he mean "attractive" as in huge market with a large European population from Spain?

I guess the writer of the article would have to define what "attractive" means.

I think his interest in the Pacers probably has a lot to do with his respect for Larry Bird.

Bird has been scouting this kid for about 4 years now. I remember reading an article where he said that he has the potential to be the best PG in the NBA. I'll see if I can find a link.

Justin Tyme
05-27-2009, 01:28 PM
Two words:

Stacy Paetz.


Why is he looking for a big sister mentor?

naptownmenace
05-27-2009, 01:29 PM
Here's an mention of Larry confirming he's been scouting Rubio since he was 14. He said this back in August of 2008.

http://www.indycornrows.com/2008/8/21/598745/larry-bird-on-the-drive-wi


Larry Bird spoke with JMV this afternoon on WNDE. They talked about the Olympics, Slick smoking cigarettes during the upcoming preseason game at Pepsi Coliseum and George Jones lighting up the new casino in French Lick. Larry copped to 'stirring up a lot of stuff' with teammates as part of the Dream Team. He also thought Ricky Rubio was a ballboy crashing the layup line the first time he saw him play in person when Rubio was 14.

owl
05-27-2009, 03:33 PM
No. You cannot use that comparison.


If you were an admin you might have a point.

rexnom
05-28-2009, 01:28 AM
I think his interest in the Pacers probably has a lot to do with his respect for Larry Bird.

Bird has been scouting this kid for about 4 years now. I remember reading an article where he said that he has the potential to be the best PG in the NBA. I'll see if I can find a link.
Is anybody going to address this? Does anyone think we could make some sort of move for Rubio? Would it be worth it?

Kemo
05-28-2009, 01:51 AM
Oh, I most definitely believe it would be worth it ..

Outside of Danny Granger, I say (in the immortal words of Monty Hall)
"Let's Make a Deal !!" ... lol

I don't care if we have to give up any combination of 1st or 2nd rd picks , let's get it done .. maybe if Rubio's agent knew of Indiana's interest in Rubio, maybe he would steer a deal our way .. ah well it's nice to dream...



I think Bird will at least try and swing some kinda deal.. I really believe Larry wants Rubio badly ..

.
.
Just got a feeling..
.
.

Anthem
05-28-2009, 08:49 AM
Is anybody going to address this? Does anyone think we could make some sort of move for Rubio? Would it be worth it?
Would what be worth it? Kstat's got a good point... there just aren't any good ways to line up what the Pacers have with what Memphis would want. Troy Murphy? TJ Ford? Give it a rest. Memphis will get FAR better offers than that.

flox
05-28-2009, 11:20 AM
You're kidding me.

No team is going to start TJ Ford again. Not even Memphis. He's lost his job everywhere he's been. There's zero incentive for them to bring in an older jorneyman on a longer contract that isn't a major upgrade.


Care to make a bet on that? TJ Ford was 17th in the league in FT shooting this season (min 100 attempts), and 20th in assists, both of which are good indicators of how good your PG is.

TJ Ford will be the starter for the Pacers for at least the next 2 years and can probably even make an all star game.

Shade
05-28-2009, 11:26 AM
Huh, really interesting seeing the Pacers as one of Rubio's desired destinations. I'd love to have him for pretty much any package that doesn't involve Granger.

Kstat
05-28-2009, 11:41 AM
Care to make a bet on that? TJ Ford was 17th in the league in FT shooting this season (min 100 attempts), and 20th in assists, both of which are good indicators of how good your PG is.

TJ Ford will be the starter for the Pacers for at least the next 2 years and can probably even make an all star game.

...he wasnt even a starter for them the 2nd half of LAST SEASON.


All-star? The guy can't even outplay Jarret Jack. The last 3 teams he's been on have either benched him (Indiana), sent him packing in favor of another guard (Milwaukee), or both (toronto).

Kstat
05-28-2009, 11:42 AM
Is anybody going to address this? Does anyone think we could make some sort of move for Rubio? Would it be worth it?

I've tried to address it with common sense. Nobody seems willing to listen.

Shade
05-28-2009, 11:43 AM
...he wasnt even a starter for them the 2nd half of LAST SEASON.


All-star? The guy can't even outplay Jarret Jack.

I'm starting to get the sinking feeling that the Pacers won't re-sign Jack.

TJ started off last season in All-Star form, then...well... :shrug:

The jersey curse lives on, I guess. :kickcan:

Kstat
05-28-2009, 11:44 AM
TJ has had that exact same season with every team he's ever been on. He's the best November point guard on the planet.

Shade
05-28-2009, 11:45 AM
I guess we need to figure out why he is never able to sustain that level of play, then, injuries withstanding.

Kstat
05-28-2009, 11:47 AM
He breaks down physically and mentally as the season goes on. By the end of the year he can barely dribble, let alone run an offense.

SoupIsGood
05-28-2009, 11:53 AM
Would what be worth it? Kstat's got a good point... there just aren't any good ways to line up what the Pacers have with what Memphis would want. Troy Murphy? TJ Ford? Give it a rest. Memphis will get FAR better offers than that.

. . . but, had we traded Foster for that first, this is the type of deal where that first would come in awfully handy as trade-sweetener. It wouldn't be enough obviously, but this is exactly why a team looking to rebuild must do a Foster-for-first trade every single time it's offered to them. Gotta stockpile those trade assets. . . . I'm going to keep on believing that we were never really offered a first for Jeff.

Kstat
05-28-2009, 11:56 AM
problem is in this draft first rounders past the top 10-15 aren't sweeteners. A lot of GMs are treating the 2nd half of the first round like they normally would treat 2nd round picks.

Minnesota's got a couple of late 1st rounders on sale for a bag of chips and a can of sprite of you want them.

You could probably offer memphis half a dozen picks in that range and it wouldn't be enough for them to give up rubio. A future 1st would have more value.

SoupIsGood
05-28-2009, 12:04 PM
That's true. However, I feel like that pick may have been a future first. Maybe not, though. It was such a flimsy rumor that I'm not too concerned.

In general though, we've shown way too much loyalty to a guy who never improved one aspect of his game. Gave him an unneeded extension, possibly refused to trade him away for a decent deal. . . argh. :banghead:

Kstat
05-28-2009, 12:06 PM
I really like Foster, actually. Can't blame him because the Pacers didn't have enough talent to allow him to be a role player, which is what he is.

Speed
05-28-2009, 12:07 PM
Minnesota's got a couple of late 1st rounders on sale for a bag of chips and a can of sprite of you want them.

.

If this is possible, I'd love to get one and pick up a Sam Young who I think is being discounted heavily because he's 24 years old. The way this thing may shake out, you could pick up a BJ Mullins or Lawson that late, if things start to fall strangely.

Kstat
05-28-2009, 12:09 PM
in any other draft, mullins is probably a 2nd rounder, same with sam young. Both will go much higher this year, probably 18-23.

Teams don't think these guys are worth guaranteed money, so they want to trade out of the first round badly.

count55
05-28-2009, 12:24 PM
. . . but, had we traded Foster for that first, this is the type of deal where that first would come in awfully handy as trade-sweetener. It wouldn't be enough obviously, but this is exactly why a team looking to rebuild must do a Foster-for-first trade every single time it's offered to them. Gotta stockpile those trade assets. . . . I'm going to keep on believing that we were never really offered a first for Jeff.


problem is in this draft first rounders past the top 10-15 aren't sweeteners. A lot of GMs are treating the 2nd half of the first round like they normally would treat 2nd round picks.

Minnesota's got a couple of late 1st rounders on sale for a bag of chips and a can of sprite of you want them.

You could probably offer memphis half a dozen picks in that range and it wouldn't be enough for them to give up rubio. A future 1st would have more value.


That's true. However, I feel like that pick may have been a future first. Maybe not, though. It was such a flimsy rumor that I'm not too concerned.

In general though, we've shown way too much loyalty to a guy who never improved one aspect of his game. Gave him an unneeded extension, possibly refused to trade him away for a decent deal. . . argh. :banghead:

The pick was a heavily protected pick from Charlotte.


Denver received the pick from Charlotte last June in exchange for the No. 20 overall selection used by the Bobcats to select Alexis Ajinca. The Bobcats will keep the pick for next month's draft, since it was 2009-protected through No. 14, but Charlotte's protection drops to 1-through-12 in the 2010 draft, 1-through-10 in 2011, 1-through 8 in 2012, 1-through-3 in 2013 and is fully unprotected in 2014.

That "sweet" deal for Foster had a lot of fine print attached to it.

Speed
05-28-2009, 12:26 PM
in any other draft, mullins is probably a 2nd rounder, same with sam young. Both will go much higher this year, probably 18-23.

Teams don't think these guys are worth guaranteed money, so they want to trade out of the first round badly.

I'm sure you're right.

I just like Mullin because he was rated top 5 in this draft less than a year ago and he played on a Ohio State team that had a group of guys older than him and I think it was difficult for him to shine. I think he'd for sure be worth a 3 year project to see what happens because he has some tools to be an NBA player.

Sam Young, I thought, was probably the best player on his college team and maybe one of the best defenders in college basketball, I get why teams aren't that high on him because at his age they probably feel like he won't get any better and just be a fringe NBA player. I can see him as a tough bench guy who brings it defensively everynight and watching Dontay Jones I think that role has great value especially on this Pacer team.

I think you're right that in a normal year these are 2nd rounders, but I see both of these guys and others as beneficial to have and not much of a drop off from what could be available where the Pacers are already picking at 13. Lastly, they be guaranteed money, but they'd be relatively cheap too as far as NBA contracts go.

Major Cold
05-28-2009, 01:05 PM
I actually thought TJ played better off the bench than in November. Better for the team that is. So this talk of TJ not being able to dribble is...well...BS.

rexnom
05-28-2009, 01:11 PM
Ok, so what I meant was...if the five team thing is true, could we put together a package that'd be worth it (i.e. not involving Granger).

"Behind the scenes, efforts will be made to steer him the direction of the teams that appear to be most attractive, mainly Sacramento, Dallas, Indiana, Portland and New York, although not all those teams may have the assets or the interest level needed to get a deal done with Memphis."

Let's look at interest first. I think Sacramento, the Pacers and the Knicks would be the most interested.

If we're in a three-way bidding war for Rubio then we at least have a shot, right?

count55
05-28-2009, 01:21 PM
Ok, so what I meant was...if the five team thing is true, could we put together a package that'd be worth it (i.e. not involving Granger).

"Behind the scenes, efforts will be made to steer him the direction of the teams that appear to be most attractive, mainly Sacramento, Dallas, Indiana, Portland and New York, although not all those teams may have the assets or the interest level needed to get a deal done with Memphis."

Let's look at interest first. I think Sacramento, the Pacers and the Knicks would be the most interested.

If we're in a three-way bidding war for Rubio then we at least have a shot, right?

Unfortunately, regardless of how many bidders there are, we're basically unarmed.

pacergod2
05-28-2009, 01:26 PM
Yeah I completely agree with the masses that say there is NO CHANCE that we get Rubio. Our chance was last week at the Lottery. That didn't work out and we have no chance. NY could offer WAY more. So could Sacto. Especially seeing that Hill would likely be Memphis' selection if they swap with Sacto. Memphis has Arthur, but to add Hill to their front line makes that team look tremendous going forward on paper. (I HATE the way Mayo dominates the ball though and he will need to quit being a black hole before that team gets good, but thats a different topic).

Don't get your hopes up of seeing Rubio in a Pacers uniform. We would be better off going forward with the team we have and doing something more productive with our assets than liquidating them all just for an 18 year old that will seemingly have a ton of baggage.

pacergod2
05-28-2009, 01:27 PM
Oh.... and I really love the things I have seen out of Rubio's game. His court vision is undeniably good. I would love to have him on our team, I just don't think it's smart for our franchise to pay the hefty price.

LG33
05-28-2009, 01:34 PM
I'd just like to see a reputable source that claims him as having interest in the Pacers.

Reputable - R E P U T A B L E - Reputable

flox
05-28-2009, 01:43 PM
...he wasnt even a starter for them the 2nd half of LAST SEASON.


All-star? The guy can't even outplay Jarret Jack. The last 3 teams he's been on have either benched him (Indiana), sent him packing in favor of another guard (Milwaukee), or both (toronto).

Uh...colored me slightly confused, as they traded Ford primarly to make a twin towers combo in CV/Bogut, and Mo Williams wasn't that good in Mil and Bell was outplaying him, and in Toronto after Ford left Calderon hasn't been that impressive..and Tornoto tanked after the JO trade.

You can spin it negatively, I will spin in positively, and I will still point out that Ford outplayed Jack in almost every statistical category, had a higher PER, was injured for most of the time with a bad back and still managed to get 30ish minutes, and is playing starter minutes, which is more meaningful than starting (hell, Jeremy Richardson started at C for the Spurs)

Kstat
05-28-2009, 04:14 PM
I will still point out that Ford outplayed Jack in almost every statistical category, had a higher PER, was injured for most of the time with a bad back and still managed to get 30ish minutes, and is playing starter minutes, which is more meaningful than starting (hell, Jeremy Richardson started at C for the Spurs)

Yes. TJ Ford losing his job to Jack meant nothing at all. He's well on his way to making an all-star team as a 7th man.

In the meantime, the Pacers are trying to get another starting PG, which means (A) they don't even like the guy they replaced TJ with, and (B) they like TJ even less.

flox
05-28-2009, 04:42 PM
Yes. TJ Ford losing his job to Jack meant nothing at all. He's well on his way to making an all-star team as a 7th man.

In the meantime, the Pacers are trying to get another starting PG, which means (A) they don't even like the guy they replaced TJ with, and (B) they like TJ even less.

Or, C: With Diener and Jack leaving, they know they only have 1 pg left on the roster.

Justin Tyme
05-28-2009, 04:43 PM
[QUOTE=Kstat;888615]

A lot of GMs are treating the 2nd half of the first round like they normally would treat 2nd round picks.

Minnesota's got a couple of late 1st rounders on sale for a bag of chips and a can of sprite of you want them.QUOTE]


Link!
I read quite a bit, and I have yet to read anything stating that. I'd be really interested in reading your source.


Then Bird best be making a trip to the grocery store to pick up some chips and Sprite to buy Minnie's #18.

Doddage
05-28-2009, 04:59 PM
Or, C: With Diener and Jack leaving, they know they only have 1 pg left on the roster.
Why do you say that Jack is leaving? All indications are that he wants to stay here, and we want to keep him.

And Diener's not leaving unless he declines his player option.

owl
05-29-2009, 09:18 AM
From DraftExpress.....


Most teams we’ve spoken to in Chicago are indicating that they believe Oklahoma City is indeed leaning towards picking Harden. They also believe the Thunder are not enamored with Rubio at all, as they are committed to developing Russell Westbrook at his natural position—point guard.

Major Cold
05-29-2009, 09:42 AM
I have on no authority that Bird and Mchale sip on purple sprite.

DrFife
05-29-2009, 10:08 AM
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Word-on-the-Street-NBA-Combine-Edition-3235/

"They also believe the Thunder are not enamored with Rubio at all, as they are committed to developing Russell Westbrook at his natural position—point guard."

Kemo, you gettin' your hopes up?

Justin Tyme
05-29-2009, 10:49 AM
Looks like Rubio could fall to Saco at 4th. They need a PG with Benito U. not setting the world on fire after signing his big contract.

naptownmenace
05-29-2009, 01:16 PM
The Pacers getting Rubio is highly unlikely to happen. However with a little discernment
you can see roughly what it takes to obtain a quality player. When Rubio tells Memphis he
won't play there it just might tilt the deal another teams way. Like Memphis wanting to
shed salary. It tilted the deal toward LA.

Open your mind.

Speaking of "open your mind", you do realize that Memphis could easily just draft someone else entirely and allow OKC or Sacramento to draft him?

The most likely scenario is that both Memphis and OKC pass on Rubio and Sacramento drafts him.

He'd fit perfectly with the Kings. Beno Udrih, although a serviceable PG, is not the longterm solution at PG for the Kings and with a player like Kevin Martin to run the break with, playing in California where he can get lots of endorsements, and having plenty of minutes to play right away, it would be an ideal situation for Rubio.

owl
06-16-2009, 09:34 AM
From Draftexpress.com......

No GM in the NBA is apparently more active right now than Minnesota’s David Kahn, as he’s apparently set on “making a big splash in his first draft” according to one NBA executive, and is “talking to everyone” at the moment. One rumor that is making the rounds has Minnesota sending Memphis Kevin Love in exchange for the #2 pick (and filler). Minnesota would then draft Ricky Rubio, which could help them significantly with their ticket sales, and still have the #6 pick at their disposal, which they could use to take someone like Jordan Hill.


Hmmmm, so the number 2 pick can be had for a player and filler and no picks???

DrFife
06-16-2009, 10:20 AM
Speaking of "open your mind", you do realize that Memphis could easily just draft someone else entirely and allow OKC or Sacramento to draft him?

The most likely scenario is that both Memphis and OKC pass on Rubio and Sacramento drafts him.

He'd fit perfectly with the Kings. Beno Udrih, although a serviceable PG, is not the longterm solution at PG for the Kings and with a player like Kevin Martin to run the break with, playing in California where he can get lots of endorsements, and having plenty of minutes to play right away, it would be an ideal situation for Rubio.

And what if the Kings pass on him ... in favor of, say, the more athletic Holiday? How many capital letters will be applied when Washington's on the clock to the effect of, "TRADE! PULL THE TRIGGER, LARRY! I'LL BUY SEASON TICKETS! I'LL GIVE YOU MY UNBORN CHILD! GET RUBIO NOW!!"?

Hicks
06-16-2009, 11:05 AM
Why would they bail on Love like that?

ESutt7
06-16-2009, 11:12 AM
New GM wants to make a splash.

count55
06-16-2009, 11:13 AM
Why would they bail on Love like that?

They think they can get Rubio and Hill, and balance out their roster more...I would guess.

naptownmenace
06-16-2009, 11:20 AM
They think they can get Rubio and Hill, and balance out their roster more...I would guess.

That'd be a good trade for Minny, IMO. If they don't have to give up their own pick (I don't know why Memphis wouldn't demand it in return) they should pull the trigger before Memphis changes their mind.

PacerDude
06-16-2009, 11:54 AM
New GM wants to make a splash.Like Nuke wanted to announce his presence with authority.

Draft smart - not to impress anyone. Duh.

pianoman
06-16-2009, 12:03 PM
I can imagine Rubio dropping to 6 at worst. Does OKC want to keep their pick? Would washington trade theirs? By the way, ot, but imagine if we got Josh smith AND Ricky rubio this offseason without trading Granger Rush an Hibbert.

Hibbert/Smith/Granger/Rush/Rubio. That would be a contender in the east for sure! Unfortunately, that will never happen :(