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vnzla81
05-21-2009, 08:21 PM
They been talking about this all week long and I wanted to know what do you guys think? who is better now Kobe or Lebron? has Lebron already taken the Torch from Kobe?

My pick is Lebron, nobody can stop him and he is only 23 years old and he has not even got to his prime yet.

BRushWithDeath
05-21-2009, 08:25 PM
LeBron is better now and he has not yet reached his prime. Kobe has passed his. And LeBron now is better than Kobe in his prime.

Pacers
05-21-2009, 08:28 PM
This is easy: Kobe. When the game is on the line, Kobe wants the ball and hits the shot. LeBron passes. That is what makes Kobe better - that killer instinct.

vnzla81
05-21-2009, 08:29 PM
LeBron is better now and he has not yet reached his prime. Kobe has passed his. And LeBron now is better than Kobe in his prime.

I agree and I also think that Lebron at the end of his career is going to finish as the best player ever, passing Michael(it hurts me to say this :()

PacersRule
05-21-2009, 08:40 PM
Lebron is more dominant, but if a game is on the line, I would prefer Kobe.

Trader Joe
05-21-2009, 08:43 PM
This is easy: Kobe. When the game is on the line, Kobe wants the ball and hits the shot. LeBron passes. That is what makes Kobe better - that killer instinct.

Um, how many straight points did Lebron score in Detroit the year the Cavs went to the NBA Finals? Saying Lebron doesn't have a killer instinct at this point is ridiculous. Not only can he score to end a game, but he can facilitate and he will also jump from out of ****ing nowhere and slam your shot against the backboard. He's incredible.

Good Lord the amount of doubt Lebron gets is amazing. I get that some of you don't like his "show" or whatever you want to call what he does before games, but once the man is on the court he is absolutely not equaled by anyone in the NBA right now.

LOOK AT HIS ROSTER! It is miserable. Like I said in the series thread, Delonte West played 47 minutes last night. DELONTE WEST! Don't get me wrong Delonte has a place in this league, but playing 47 minutes a night in the Eastern COnference Finals? How many teams if healthy would Delonte play 47 minutes on? A hand full at best.

MillerTime
05-21-2009, 08:54 PM
Lebron never had a great supporting cast. Kobe on the other hand has proved that he cannot play without All-Star caliber players. Kobe showed this by not making the playoffs before Pau came to LA).

Look at Lebron's roster. Besides Mo Williams, the team is no where compared to anything the Lakers have. Lakers have Odom coming off the bench. If Odom was on the Cavs, he would most likely be their second best player

BlueNGold
05-21-2009, 09:02 PM
Lebron is the only player I have seen in my 40+ years that I would rank above Michael Jordan.

idioteque
05-21-2009, 09:31 PM
LeBron and frankly I don't think it is very close at all. Kobe is good, hell Kobe is very good but LeBron James could be the best player of all time. And I was a LeBron doubter for a long time but after watching him this year especially he is just too good.

The fact that he took that horrible team to the Finals a few years ago is nothing short of amazing. That team was starting Sasha Pavolic and Boobie Gibson. Their roster isn't even that incredible now and these guys are on warming the pine.

Kuq_e_Zi91
05-21-2009, 09:33 PM
LeBron is amazing, but all the things he gets away with and all the crying and acting just ruins it for me.

I'm biased though. I've always been more of a finesse over power and that's why I love how smooth Kobe's game is all the way to the footwork.

This discussion could go on for days without end and VitaminWater is genius for marketing it.

Pacersfan46
05-21-2009, 09:43 PM
Lebron is the only player I have seen in my 40+ years that I would rank above Michael Jordan.

I wouldn't go that far ..... yet. I'm trying to let him approach 30 years old before I start saying that .... but I'm almost certain it's coming.

-- Steve --

MrSparko
05-22-2009, 01:03 AM
Lebron took at team of scrubs to the Finals (at what? 21-22 years old?). Witness.

xtacy
05-22-2009, 05:05 AM
kobe is better talentwise, but when you consider the things that makes a player a good one like strenght,physique noone is better than lebron. he is like a one man team. he took a team that wouldn't make the playoffs without him and took them to the finals.

Trader Joe
05-22-2009, 10:50 AM
How do we define talent to say whether Kobe is really better? Yes, Lebron is physically unmatched in the NBA. He is a 6'9", 260 lb guy who is probably fast enough to get open against most corners in the NFL, but just because he is physically imposing does not mean he isn't also extremely talented. I would say Lebron has quite a few moves that you could call finesse.

Let's put it this way, put Lebron on the Lakers and Kobe on the Cavs. What happens? Suddenly Lebron has three guys (Gasol, Odom, Bynum) who all might be more talented or at least have a bigger impact on a game than the second best player on the Cavs (Mo Williams). Is there any doubt the Lakers will win more games and the Cavs will win less?

OakMoses
05-22-2009, 10:54 AM
Witness.

I hate this ad campaign.


LeBron and frankly I don't think it is very close at all.

Agreed.

carpediem024
05-22-2009, 11:13 AM
Well LeBron is special. Anyone with that height, strength, and speed combined should be able to do exactly what he is doing. I've always doubted LeBron in his ability to hit crucial shots and he has missed many, but he has proven to be dangerous in the clutch situation.

I love the guy but I don't see how "its ridiculous how much doubt" he gets. He gets away with so much things like he's the Golden Child of the NBA and its a bit similar for me and it kinda ruins it. Kobe will get criticized at the slightest flaw. LeBron is obviously better now, but you never know if he's going to be as dominant as he is now, than he will be once he reach... say Kobe's age. LeBron is clutch, but I would prefer Kobe in the 4th quarter.

LeBron erased many doubts with that incredible performance against Detroit couple years back. However that was really the only test they got in that Playoff run. I think many forget how bad the Eastern Conference was when they made it to the Finals; only to get swept by a Western Conference team. Granted he still led that Cavs team by himself; give him credit for that.

Kobe is Kobe. He is talented and cocky, but he backs it up. But that's what makes him great. He has confidence and plays with intensity. However many dislike that about him. Both players are great, and some miss out by being a fan of one and completely misinterpreting the similar greatness of the other. I'll wait for your guys, but I just wanted to input a bit of my opinion on LeBron.

Trader Joe
05-22-2009, 11:17 AM
The idea that Lebron gets away with a lot more than Kobe is absurd. They both get away with a lot of things. That is a moot point.

WetBob
05-22-2009, 01:31 PM
This is so much better of a debate then the Lebron/Dwight debate that it isn't even funny.

At least with this one there can be an argument made for Kobe.


This is easy: Kobe. When the game is on the line, Kobe wants the ball and hits the shot. LeBron passes. That is what makes Kobe better - that killer instinct.

I don't agree one bit. Lebron has the killer instinct, but unlike Kobe his game includes the desire/ability to pass the ball. You can't tell me he doesn't want the ball at the end of games, but when the situation to pass presents itself he doesn't hesitate. Is he too unselfish for his own good? Maybe, but I'd still rather have Lebron at the beginning, middle, and end of games over anyone in the world.

ABADays
05-22-2009, 10:10 PM
Do I have to take either one of them? I get so tired of having them driven down my throat.

vnzla81
05-22-2009, 10:16 PM
Do I have to take either one of them? I get so tired of having them driven down my throat.

you can pick whoever you want, but if I was you I would pick Lebron :D

GO!!!!!
05-22-2009, 10:20 PM
What about East V West

I know BronBron took his team to the finals but I gotta say the Lakers play in one of the hardest Divisions around and the West Conference sure has some better teams/stars

Wade to took his team to the Finals and well his supporting team was worse then Brons In my opinion...

I don't know about Jordan but I sure Knew who Bron was before he ever stepped in to the league, I don't know if Jordan was as hyped during his college days and or Kobe during his HS days, cripes the dude went 8 or 11 in the draft, I can't recall...

Bron is the chosen one, no doubt about it, he has been promoted as the future for the NBA for the next ten years, Averages close to a triple double most night, he has some skills...

Who would I take for the Pacers as a no 1 draft pick if they were both rookies at the same time..

can't deceide, they would be All Stars in the league..

BlueNGold
05-22-2009, 10:55 PM
Ya know, I think this argument will be decided when Lebron and the Cavs play Kobe and his all-star team. Certainly we would all agree that Kobe has a better team around him...yet who had the best regular season record? I suppose Orlando or Denver still have a shot, but Der Stern would have a fit if Kobe and Lebron were not at center stage...so you might as well order your tickets.

BlueNGold
05-22-2009, 11:02 PM
No GM in the league would take Kobe over Lebron simply based on Lebron's level of unselfishness, maturity and leadership. Bron was more mature at the age of 15 than Kobe is now. Throw the talent out. Even if Kobe were more talented, I would still take Lebron and it would not be close. Kind of like the difference between Chauncey Billups and Stephon Marbury. Both all-star level talents, but seriously, who would you want leading your team?

Coop
05-22-2009, 11:37 PM
So much for that lack of a killer instict.

BlueNGold
05-22-2009, 11:42 PM
I've always doubted LeBron in his ability to hit crucial shots and he has missed many...

:D

vnzla81
05-22-2009, 11:47 PM
:D

:D

Trader Joe
05-23-2009, 12:34 AM
I think I pretty much stand justified.

carpediem024
05-23-2009, 06:04 AM
:D

Yeah man, he came up pretty damn big on that one. 2-0 heading to Orlando would've been HUGE for Magic. Amazing shot, happy I stay tuned.

vnzla81
05-23-2009, 05:21 PM
Lebron is the man, now the haters can't say that he can't hit the big shots, nice game.

Sollozzo
05-24-2009, 01:46 AM
That Kobe guy seems to have some pretty decent game too.

GrangerRanger
05-24-2009, 02:26 AM
Lebron is the man, now the haters can't say that he can't hit the big shots, nice game.

Wow. Let's not get ahead of ourselves here.

It was a lucky, poorly defended, desperation heave with 1.0 to go. Even ESPN said "SECOND CAREER BUZZER BEATER".

SECOND CAREER BUZZER BEATER.

How many has Kobe had? How many has Michael had? How many had these guys had before people started saying, "OH WAIT HE'S A GOOD CLUTCH GUY!" Hell Reggie Miller probably had 10 before people started calling him a go to guy with 1 second to go.

BlueNGold
05-24-2009, 07:35 AM
Wow. Let's not get ahead of ourselves here.

It was a lucky, poorly defended, desperation heave with 1.0 to go. Even ESPN said "SECOND CAREER BUZZER BEATER".

SECOND CAREER BUZZER BEATER.

How many has Kobe had? How many has Michael had? How many had these guys had before people started saying, "OH WAIT HE'S A GOOD CLUTCH GUY!" Hell Reggie Miller probably had 10 before people started calling him a go to guy with 1 second to go.

If Lebron wasn't busy dishing out assists, he would have more buzzer beaters. You see, it's not all about Lebron...the way it is with Kobe.

The fact Lebron averages a career 6.7 assists per game and Kobe 4.6 should tell you enough. Consider the fact Kobe has been on all-star teams most of his career and could have been dishing to Shaq, it's almost an embarrassing stat when compared to Bron. The fact Lebron is also busy hitting the boards averaging 7 boards to Kobe's 5.3 should also tell you something. If Kobe is not launching shots, he's sitting back expecting his other all-star teammates to carry the weight. Lebron is doing it ALL. Finally, if Kobe were on the Cavs instead of Lebron, you might be watching Atlanta and Orlando right now.

No one seems to remember how bad the Lakers were the three seasons between Shaq's departure and the arrival of Gasol. Lakers didn't make the playoffs on '05 and were first round duds in '06 and '07. Kobe was crying to be traded and simply could not carry the load. Dude's not even half the man Lebron is...and some people cannot even see it.

Shade
05-24-2009, 09:54 AM
LeBron is very capable of becoming the GOAT, whereas Kobe is, at best, an MJ clone (not that there's anything wrong with that).

Switch Kobe with LeBron on their respective teams, and the Cavs become merely a playoff team while the Lakers become a dynasty.

vnzla81
05-24-2009, 10:20 AM
LeBron is very capable of becoming the GOAT, whereas Kobe is, at best, an MJ clone (not that there's anything wrong with that).

Switch Kobe with LeBron on their respective teams, and the Cavs become merely a playoff team while the Lakers become a dynasty.

I know, can you imagine Lebron playing with Gasol, Odom and Bynum? that team is a dynasty.

GrangerRanger
05-24-2009, 02:42 PM
Michael Jordan is better than Kobe and Lebron (even statistically if you put the two together which equals 19 years of playing time between the two. Michael played 13-14 seasons).

Do either of them have a chance to be better? Sure. But it's going to take 5-7 championships.

BlueNGold
05-24-2009, 04:18 PM
Michael Jordan is better than Kobe and Lebron (even statistically if you put the two together which equals 19 years of playing time between the two. Michael played 13-14 seasons).

Do either of them have a chance to be better? Sure. But it's going to take 5-7 championships.

I'm an old timer who followed Jordan for years. I literally watched hundreds of his games and you always wondered what spectacular thing he would do next. I have stated I think Lebron is better...but honestly it is like comparing apples and oranges. I think Lebron would be the only player in history I would pick over Jordan....and that may be a mistake. I think it may just come down to preference.

But as for Kobe, I think he's proven he collapses mentally and asked to be traded when the going gets tough and he's simply not been the leader that MJ and Lebron have been for their teams. His teams without other all-star level talents have stunk it up big time and that's an indication in part of his lack of leadership, maturity and unselfishness. Again, he's a spectacular player, but MJ and Lebron have that and more in terms of intangibles. I really don't think any GM in the league would pick Kobe over either MJ or Lebron.

Sollozzo
05-25-2009, 02:46 PM
Lebron may have better all around stats than Kobe, but give me Kobe in the 4th quarter any day. Lebron had some awful shots in the 4th last night and wasn't that great in the 4th in game 2 aside from the 3 at the end of the game.

And neither of them are Jordan, certainly not Lebron. It really does boggle my mind how anyone can say Lebron is better than MJ. I know Lebron is just in his 6th season and MJ didn't win one until his 7th, but after that he won 6. I'll honestly be surprised if Lebron ends up with half as many rings as MJ.

Rings are how a great player is judged in basketball because in basketball you can impact both sides of the court and literally take over an entire game. MJ literally willed the Bulls to victories in the finals. Guys like Kerr and Paxon hit some big shots, but MJ went beyond what any superstar in NBA history has ever done in the NBA finals. His performances in games such as game 5 in 97 and game 6 in 98 in Utah are that of legend.

Lebron is awesome right now because he is at the peak of his physical prime. MJ was the same way back in the 80's and early 90's. But once he reached his early to mid 30's MJ was forced to remake his game somewhat and rely more on jumpers, fadeaways, and overall smarts because he lacked the physical ability to explode to the basket in the manner that he did when he was in his mid to late 20's. I'm not saying he still couldn't explode, because he obviously still did a great deal...I'm just saying that he couldn't do it as much as he did when he earned the label "Air Jordan".

That's what impresses me the most about Michael Jordan. He was still able to dominate the league when he was well past his physical prime because he was able to perfect a game based on jumpers and fadeaways.

In 5 years, Lebron will have 11 years of NBA mileage on him and will be almost 30 years old. It will be impossible for him to have the same level of physical explosion in his 30's as he does now. If he wants to stay at the top of the NBA in his 30's like Jordan did then he will have to remake his game somewhat and rely more on jumpers than he does now.

For Lebron to be equal or better than Jordan, he's going to have to do in his 30's what MJ was able to do. I'll be curious to see what he does when he loses the physical explosion that he has now. Honestly, I think Kobe has a better chance of being at the top of the NBA at age 33-35 than Lebron does.

And does anyone "fear" Lebron yet? Obviously everyone knows that he is a total basketball machine, but does he put the fear of god into opponents that Jordan did? Jordan got into teams heads and I think teams questioned whether they could beat him. That's another thing that made Michael Jordan Michael Jordan and is another thing Lebron James will have to accomplish if he wants to be on that level.

You aren't going to find many people who won't admit that Lebron through is first 6 years is at where Jordan was his first 6. But it's what Jordan did after his first 6 years that made him Michael Jordan. MJ's best statistical seasons were in the 80's, but no one ever talks about those years do they? They talk about the years he was winning jewelry.

vnzla81
05-25-2009, 03:11 PM
Here is an article about Kobe and Lebron in ESPN

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=Roundup-KobeLeBron

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2009/columns/story?columnist=adande_ja&page=kobelebron-090525

Sollozzo
05-25-2009, 04:48 PM
I can't believe every single person thinks Lebron will finish with a better career than Kobe. Kobe has 3 rings and isn't done yet. I know he had Shaq, but Kobe was a crucial part to those championship teams (as any Pacer fan who suffered through game 5 of the finals knows). I think Kobe will get his long waited "Shaq-less ring" this year. Plus, I think Kobe will have a better career in his 30's than Lebron because his game doesn't depend as heavily on physical explosiveness.