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View Full Version : 2009 NBA Playoffs - ECF: (1) Cleveland vs. (3) Orlando



Shade
05-18-2009, 09:00 AM
Well, the ECF I predicted has come to pass. Barkley says the Magic will win this series. Webber says the Magic are the best team in the league.

I think they're both putting too much stock in a single game.

IMO, the Magic should not have been taken to 7 games to begin with. They are more talented than a KG-less Celtics team. And while the Game 7 win was impressive, I believe that the Cavs are on a whole 'nother level right now. So I will stick with my original prediction:

Cavs in 5.

naptownmenace
05-18-2009, 09:12 AM
The hot shooting from Turkoglu and Lewis will be troublesome for the Cavs but Big Z and Varejao can limit Dwight Howard better than most teams can.

Cavs in 6.

duke dynamite
05-18-2009, 09:13 AM
I'm just happy the Celtics lost.

count55
05-18-2009, 09:25 AM
Cavs in 4 or 5.

pig norton
05-18-2009, 09:27 AM
I'll go ahead and call a Cavs clean sweep through the playoffs.

owl
05-18-2009, 09:50 AM
Well, the ECF I predicted has come to pass. Barkley says the Magic will win this series. Webber says the Magic are the best team in the league.

I think they're both putting too much stock in a single game.

IMO, the Magic should not have been taken to 7 games to begin with. They are more talented than a KG-less Celtics team. And while the Game 7 win was impressive, I believe that the Cavs are on a whole 'nother level right now. So I will stick with my original prediction:

Cavs in 5.

As good as Howard is Lebron is better. Cleveland can slow Howard down. The Magic have
no one who can slow Lebron down. I will be very surprised if Orlando wins.

Unclebuck
05-18-2009, 10:03 AM
Well since the NBA wants the Cavs in the Finals against the lakers - I'm sure the Cavs will win. Wow this is easy picking games like this

Major Cold
05-18-2009, 10:11 AM
Cavs in 6. LeBron will stop the Hedo pick n' roll, which slows Howard down considerably.

Jonathan
05-18-2009, 10:16 AM
Mo Williams & Rafer Alston are the key players this series.

rexnom
05-18-2009, 10:32 AM
Mo Williams & Rafer Alston are the key players this series.
There is only one key player in this series - the MVP. He'll dominate as per usual. Cavs in four or five. I'll say five - the Magic catch fire in game 3.

Did Barkley and C-Webb really predict that the Magic would win?

PacersRule
05-18-2009, 11:23 AM
Magic won the season series, but I'm guessing Cavs in 6.

tora tora
05-18-2009, 12:23 PM
I'm with Chuck, Magic in 7.

Hicks
05-18-2009, 12:51 PM
I'll be very surprised if the Cavs lose this series. I think they're winning the whole thing.

PacerDude
05-18-2009, 12:55 PM
Well since the NBA wants the Cavs in the Finals against the lakers - I'm sure the Cavs will win. You're not saying ...................

JayRedd
05-18-2009, 01:00 PM
Cavs in 3.

SoupIsGood
05-18-2009, 02:13 PM
Cavs in 3.

What he said.


Charles and C-Webb are nuts.

idioteque
05-18-2009, 05:19 PM
Cavs in the sweep. This is going to be real ugly.

Unclebuck
05-18-2009, 05:26 PM
I'm not a believer in the Magic - however, they are much, much better than the Pistons or the Hawks - so I think some of you are not looking atr this series realistically. The Magic won 59 games - Howard is the best center in the NBA and I don't think the Cavs have as good of a low post defender as Perkins.

Magic will make the Cavs work - no doubt in my mind about that

GO!!!!!
05-18-2009, 05:45 PM
Really undeceided but I'm going Magic in Seven....

vnzla81
05-18-2009, 06:12 PM
I go Cleveland on 6, 1st game is going to be a blow out by Cleveland

Mr_Smith
05-18-2009, 07:06 PM
Cavs in 5

Alabama-Redneck
05-18-2009, 07:13 PM
Cavs in 5 1/2. One game will be to close to call and the refs and Stern will declare it a draw. :D

:cool:

P.S. The Cavs in 6 over the Nuggets.

BlueNGold
05-18-2009, 09:40 PM
Cavs in 6. The most talented player in the league combined with the best defense will be unstoppable. Think juggernaut. The Magic will be lucky to win a couple games IMO. Same with the Lakers.

Like another poster said, Z and V along with Ben Wallace and Joe Smith will be more than enough to slow down Howard. Combine this with the fact Howard cannot guard Z's outside game while at the same time stopping Lebron from a power dunk over wimpy Rashard Lewis' defense...the outcome is all but certain.

xtacy
05-19-2009, 03:48 AM
cavs in 4!

i have no doubt about it. orlando is not a playoff team and they looked way better than they are becasue of the teams they played. sixers was simply the worst team(yes even worse than hornets) that got into the playoffs and celtics were dealing with injuries. if powe was healthy they would be in the finals now.

cinotimz
05-19-2009, 11:25 PM
Cavs in 5

BRushWithDeath
05-20-2009, 10:52 AM
As Moses Malone once said, "Fo, fo, fo, fo."

Roaming Gnome
05-20-2009, 09:17 PM
That LeBron guy is pretty good.

Big Smooth
05-20-2009, 09:42 PM
The way I see it, the Magic didn't do anything impressive to get here. They beat the Celtics in 7 games....okay so they did slightly better than the Bulls.

Cavs in 5 or less. No brainer.

Now I do understand beating Detroit and Atlanta isn't exactly a yeoman's effort either but the Cavs took care of both teams in decisive, impressive fashion.

vnzla81
05-20-2009, 09:52 PM
are you kidding me? Mo Will made a shot from the other side of the court in the last second :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Pacersfan46
05-20-2009, 10:02 PM
Man I just tuned in at half ... but did I see Lebron absolutely destroy a Dwight shot close to the rim? Did I see that right?

Holy ....

-- Steve --

LoneGranger33
05-20-2009, 10:06 PM
Is this the beginning of LeBr-unstoppable?

MrSparko
05-20-2009, 10:10 PM
Just like Miller was stuck behind Jordan I think Granger will be stuck behind Lebron.

Same level of talent disparity even.

Roaming Gnome
05-20-2009, 10:23 PM
Nice to know that Mike Brown carried on with the ol' Rick Carlisle line-up card.

vnzla81
05-20-2009, 10:26 PM
Is this the beginning of LeBr-unstoppable?

I agree, I also think he took the torch away from Kobe and did not ask him.:)

carpediem024
05-20-2009, 10:37 PM
It'd be a pleasant outcome if the Magic pull off what the Lakers did last night.

Unclebuck
05-20-2009, 10:57 PM
Watching this makes you realize what a great, great job Perkins did on Howard

rexnom
05-20-2009, 11:12 PM
Nothing better could have happened for this series. Good job Orlando.

rexnom
05-20-2009, 11:13 PM
LeBron cannot be missing FTs here.

rexnom
05-20-2009, 11:15 PM
I don't like that foul call. Turk stepped into Varejao.

I have no faith in Bennett "I gave Miami a championship" Salvatore.

carpediem024
05-20-2009, 11:16 PM
Watching this makes you realize what a great, great job Perkins did on Howard

Totally agree. As much as I disliked him, he was an underrated defender.

rexnom
05-20-2009, 11:17 PM
LeBron is at his best as facilitator - just a masterful couple of passes here.

rexnom
05-20-2009, 11:18 PM
Watching this makes you realize what a great, great job Perkins did on Howard
Well, they doubled a lot too. Cleveland gave up most points to Howard one-on-one. You struggle against Orlando when you double Howard and give their shooters open looks - that's how they got back into it tonight.

rexnom
05-20-2009, 11:21 PM
And then LeBron gets Howard a sixth foul, makes a basket, and one - all with more than 24 seconds left to ensure Cleveland gets the ball back. Jesus.

EDIT: God almighty can the Magic shoot.

Fantastic opportunity for the Cavs - good non-call. Whew.

Excellent finish.

carpediem024
05-20-2009, 11:23 PM
What a shot by Rashard... clutch!

Unclebuck
05-20-2009, 11:28 PM
I'm not a believer in the Magic - however, they are much, much better than the Pistons or the Hawks - so I think some of you are not looking atr this series realistically. The Magic won 59 games - Howard is the best center in the NBA and I don't think the Cavs have as good of a low post defender as Perkins.

Magic will make the Cavs work - no doubt in my mind about that

word

Shade
05-20-2009, 11:30 PM
Wow.

rexnom
05-20-2009, 11:32 PM
I think the Magic have grown some cajones over two rounds and figured out by game six and seven of the Boston series that their best lineups feature Lee and Pietrus a lot - their best perimeter defenders.

I am a bit shocked that the Cavs didn't play better defense on their non-Howard guys.

carpediem024
05-20-2009, 11:34 PM
That's an ouch for Cleveland; just like for Denver last night.

Roaming Gnome
05-21-2009, 01:25 AM
That was just one hell of a game for a game 1! Hope the rest of the series can live up to that first game. The same can be said for the Western Finals.

Justin Tyme
05-21-2009, 06:23 AM
Hum, to those that predicted the Cavs in 4 games, would you like to revise your predictions?

What a difference a half can make! I didn't think there was anyway that the Magic could win this game watching the 1st half.

I loved SVG huddle speech at the end of the game.

I really thought Mo William's shot was going to go in and win the game for the Cavs. Did anyone else feel the clock on that tip off was a little slow? It seemed to be an awfully looooong 1 second.

sweabs
05-21-2009, 07:25 AM
Bigger surprise?

Magic pulling off the upset, or Unclebuck posting "word"?

Trader Joe
05-21-2009, 08:43 AM
If Lebron James had another legit player on this team at all, they might never lose a game. Seriously. He won 66 games with Mo Williams as his second best player. MO WILLIAMS! A 6'2" shooting guard who gets to pretend to be a PG! Somehow he even got this guy on the all star team!

All I can do when I look at this Cavs roster is shake my head. Imagine if you gave Lebron two guys like Shard and Hedo next to him. Just absurd. Delonte West played 47 minutes last night. FORTY SEVEN MINUTES! Of the 16 teams that made the playoffs would Delonte West play 47 minutes on any team except the Cavs? How many non-playoff teams would Delonte West play 47 minutes on if the team was healthy? It makes my head hurt, I can only imagine how Lebron feels. They have the best player in the NBA by a ridiculous margin and then thay have arguably the worst playoff roster of any team 2-15.

Lebron already shot the ball 30 times last night, I've got 3:1 odds saying he goes for 60+ at some point this series.

Unclebuck
05-21-2009, 09:00 AM
Bigger surprise?

Magic pulling off the upset, or Unclebuck posting "word"?

word -


Isn't that from the 90's.



I think game 1 from each conference finals series have been great games and the TV ratings are way up - game 1 of the WCF broke an ESPN alltime record for NBA basketball and it is only game 1. TV ratings are up across the board and it seems to me that interest in these playoffs are the highest they have been in years

Jonathan
05-21-2009, 09:39 AM
Michael Pietrus is real funny everytime he hit a shot he is so cocky. I am very happy Dwight Howard kept his head after that terrible foul he was called for late in the game.

Mr_Smith
05-21-2009, 07:14 PM
Lebron passing to Delonte West only to miss that last 3 pointer reminds me of when he passed the ball to Donyell Marshall a few years back and he couldn't come through as well. Dwight Howard owns Zydrunas Illgaga (lol). Wouldn't be surprised if Orlando wins this series.

BRushWithDeath
05-21-2009, 07:24 PM
Now Moses would say, "Fo, fo, fi, fo."

Unclebuck
05-22-2009, 08:31 AM
TNT's rstings for game 1 vs last years game one was up 35% - pretty impressive - and you know with the halftime deficit at 16 - I'm sure more than a few people turn it off went to bed. Game 1 7.32 M

carpediem024
05-22-2009, 11:18 AM
Game two tonight! Game one was great, and I hope for another good one tonight. Both teams coming up clutch but I don't think anyone saw that LeBron traveled when he dished it to West for a three.

vnzla81
05-22-2009, 11:31 PM
Orlando is up by two and only one second left...............:eek:

Lebron made a 3 with one second left, he is the man.....

Los Angeles
05-22-2009, 11:35 PM
:puke:

cgg
05-22-2009, 11:43 PM
fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuck

pwee31
05-22-2009, 11:45 PM
that's just stupid! Props to Lebron for hitting that shot, but the Cavs should be winning by much more, with the extra 3 guys on their team

BlueNGold
05-22-2009, 11:48 PM
After Van Gundy's whining tirade in the Orlando locker room, it's no wonder Shaq, Dwight and any leader of the Magic would have issues with him. I could take that for about 10 minutes, then I would be thinking "trade me!". I must say we are lucky to have JOb afterall.

Chewy
05-23-2009, 05:22 AM
So Pavlovic played, i wonder who is the real coach in Cleveland :laugh:

Unclebuck
05-23-2009, 09:10 AM
What. No one else watched the game. I hope all you who think the NBA controls these games noticed that James was called for traveling in the last minute of this game.

I cannot remember a year when the conference finals were this good

count55
05-23-2009, 09:13 AM
that's just stupid! Props to Lebron for hitting that shot, but the Cavs should be winning by much more, with the extra 3 guys on their team

That would bring them up to 4 (total).

Unclebuck
05-23-2009, 09:27 AM
that's just stupid! Props to Lebron for hitting that shot, but the Cavs should be winning by much more, with the extra 3 guys on their team

OK so the traveling call was just to to throw us off the scent

MyFavMartin
05-23-2009, 09:44 AM
I think there were some questionable calls and no-calls that went Cleveland's way (the 2 blocks on Gortat, the offensive foul on Hedo when he was driving the lane on Sideshow Bob)... but I'm glad to see the traveling call and the reach on Pavlov (dumb move late in the game, wasn't it?)...

Heck of a game. Surely thought it was over with Hedo's drive...


DID ANYONE NOTICE THAT THE INBOUND PASS WAS NOT DEFENDED?

Rashard Lewis was backed off and playing help defense on cutters. Forcing a lob pass by getting in the face of the inbounder would be common sense, right?

SVG: Rick Pitino on line 1.

rexnom
05-23-2009, 09:48 AM
Kenny made a great point - Mo Williams waited for LeBron. The Magic kinda dared LeBron to take that shot, which was one of the toughest I've ever seen him make. I don't know how you play that better.

Major Cold
05-23-2009, 10:38 AM
fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuck
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/dgx1sSfriIA&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/dgx1sSfriIA&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Major Cold
05-23-2009, 10:42 AM
I understand that Howard played the lob, but I would have put him on Lebron. Simply put Lebron had time to catch and shoot only. He did not have time to dribble. If Howard was in his face it may have been more difficult. Rashard and Pietrus would have been better than Hedo.

PacersRule
05-23-2009, 11:19 AM
I think if Lewis defended Mo Williams like Odom did against Anthony Carter in game one, Magic would've won.

rexnom
05-23-2009, 11:21 AM
I think if Lewis defended Mo Williams like Odom did against Anthony Carter in game one, Magic would've won.


I understand that Howard played the lob, but I would have put him on Lebron. Simply put Lebron had time to catch and shoot only. He did not have time to dribble. If Howard was in his face it may have been more difficult. Rashard and Pietrus would have been better than Hedo.
I think Hedo did a great job. Pietrus should have been more aware of LeBron, I think - he should have sagged off of Pavlovic and in between the passing lanes. Otherwise, I think this was great offense beating good defense.

count55
05-23-2009, 11:26 AM
I think sometimes Great Players make Great Plays (and there ain't a whole lot the other team can do about it.)

Major Cold
05-23-2009, 11:31 AM
Oh I agree, that it was just that count. But it never hurts to wonder what I would have done different if I were SVG

Chewy
05-23-2009, 01:11 PM
I think sometimes Great Players make Great Plays (and there ain't a whole lot the other team can do about it.)

I thinks that's what happened, Turkoglu was close but just doesn't have the hops to properly contest the shot.

Kuq_e_Zi91
05-23-2009, 01:24 PM
I don't even think you need to guard the inbound because there isn't enough time to pass it back. Use that extra defender to double LeBron and make someone else beat you. The way Rashard was defending Mo on the inbound had no impact on anything.

rexnom
05-23-2009, 01:28 PM
I thinks that's what happened, Turkoglu was close but just doesn't have the hops to properly contest the shot.
I don't think it's about the hops. Turkoglu did as good of a job as could on that, without fouling.


I don't even think you need to guard the inbound because there isn't enough time to pass it back. Use that extra defender to double LeBron and make someone else beat you. The way Rashard was defending Mo on the inbound had no impact on anything.
Well, the argument is that Shard could have blocked Mo's pass or at least not made it so easy for him. I think you use the extra defender in between Mo and the top of the key, just roving.

Kuq_e_Zi91
05-23-2009, 01:37 PM
Well, the argument is that Shard could have blocked Mo's pass or at least not made it so easy for him. I think you use the extra defender in between Mo and the top of the key, just roving.

I understand this logic but I would have much rather increased my chances of denying LeBron the ball by putting two people on him, Pietrus and Lewis. Cavs need a 3 to win, Mo is inbounding so he's already out of the equation. If you deny LeBron the ball, the game is out of the hands of their two best players. They need to rely on Z, West, or Pavlovic to come through in the clutch. I'd much rather roll the dice on that.

Shade
05-23-2009, 03:00 PM
I want to root for Orlando in this series, but I'm looking at the big picture, and I don't believe the Magic can beat the Lakers (if it comes to that).

I don't really care all that much who wins, as long as it isn't the Lakers. The Magic would probably be my fave of the remaining four.

Shade
05-23-2009, 03:18 PM
I thought this was pretty funny:

http://i44.tinypic.com/szd07o.jpg

Major Cold
05-23-2009, 06:14 PM
I really don't want Kobe or Lebron to win.

Shade
05-24-2009, 11:25 PM
LeBron is choking big time from the line tonight in the 4th.

Shade
05-24-2009, 11:30 PM
Looks like Orlando is the better team after all.

I hope they can beat the Lakers.

Kid Minneapolis
05-24-2009, 11:31 PM
Howard had a clean block on LeBron... instead they call a foul and Howard is gone.

Shade
05-24-2009, 11:32 PM
Too little, too late, though.

vnzla81
05-24-2009, 11:36 PM
yeah, game over, Orlando looks better, Lebron supporting team is not good enough

Shade
05-24-2009, 11:36 PM
Hedo with 13 points on 1 field goal. :laugh:

vnzla81
05-24-2009, 11:38 PM
Lebron needs another star, Mo is not good enough they need another good big

GO!!!!!
05-24-2009, 11:42 PM
I didn't really like the length of Lewis's contract when the Magic Signed him but I must say, he's paying of the Magic, who'd a thought they'd be this close to the finals...


nice fun series

Shade
05-24-2009, 11:43 PM
Yeah, Cleveland overachieved all season with that cast, but what is most alarming here is their sudden matador defense against the Magic. Maybe they're just not suited to well-guarding the perimeter at the frequency that Orlando chucks them from out there.

Coop
05-24-2009, 11:46 PM
Orlando will be even better with Nelson back next year. If they can keep everyone together, they will be very tough for years to come.

Kuq_e_Zi91
05-25-2009, 12:19 AM
LeBron is choking big time from the line tonight in the 4th.

Ball don't lie.

rexnom
05-25-2009, 01:00 AM
Orlando will be even better with Nelson back next year. If they can keep everyone together, they will be very tough for years to come.
Funny, a few days ago, people were saying the same about the Cavs. For the record, I still think the Cavs pull this one out.

spazzxb
05-25-2009, 03:05 AM
LeBron is choking big time from the line tonight in the 4th. Maybe his conscience was getting to him. Or maybe his ego was hurt by the fact that the referees couldn't even give him the game tonight. I am pulling for Orlando big time this year. They know there up against Sterns henchman but, they might just be able to win anyways.

Unclebuck
05-25-2009, 09:30 AM
A couple of things that is hurting the Cavs. Big Z is a huge defensive liability (and I thinlk proves why having quick mobile big guys is soooooooo important) - he cannot guard Howard and he is hrorible on the pick and rolls and those two things get the cavs defense completely out of position. Also the small Cav backcourt is hurting them a little, bt more than that the Cavs do not have a small 4 man who they can play to match up wth Lewis.

having said that I somewhat expect the cavs to win game 4. Just a gut feelng.

Gsme 3 was a horrible game - the refs were calling every little ticky tack foul

Hicks
05-25-2009, 09:34 AM
Lebron needs another star, Mo is not good enough they need another good big

Granger would be perfect to go next to LeBron. Too bad he's not available. :devil:

Hicks
05-25-2009, 09:35 AM
Yeah, Cleveland overachieved all season with that cast, but what is most alarming here is their sudden matador defense against the Magic. Maybe they're just not suited to well-guarding the perimeter at the frequency that Orlando chucks them from out there.

That's what it is. Their D is about making teams shoot over them, and they're playing the team that LOVES and is BUILT to shoot over you, even at the 4 spot.

Oh, and dealing with Dwight Howard isn't a walk in the park.

This is a good example of how matchups can really change things.

I think their best bet is to hope Pavlovic can show up at the 3 while LeBron sticks to the 4.

vnzla81
05-25-2009, 09:57 AM
Granger would be perfect to go next to LeBron. Too bad he's not available. :devil:


I know, Granger is the perfect Pippen for a Lebron those two guys together would mean dynasty, I still think the cavs need a fast big, maybe they pull an Amare trade next year, even Shaq could be helping them big time in the middle, I don't know why they did not make that trade.

Kstat
05-25-2009, 11:49 AM
I think the Cavs would beat the Lakers or Nuggets in 5 games or less, I really do.

But they simply cannot match up with Orlando's strengths, nor can they take advantage of Orlando's weak spots. It's just a terrible, terrible matchup.

Country Boy
05-25-2009, 01:12 PM
A couple of things that is hurting the Cavs. Big Z is a huge defensive liability (and I thinlk proves why having quick mobile big guys is soooooooo important) - he cannot guard Howard and he is hrorible on the pick and rolls and those two things get the cavs defense completely out of position. Also the small Cav backcourt is hurting them a little, bt more than that the Cavs do not have a small 4 man who they can play to match up wth Lewis.

having said that I somewhat expect the cavs to win game 4. Just a gut feelng.

Gsme 3 was a horrible game - the refs were calling every little ticky tack foul

Now Buck, that sounds more like me than the UB we have grown to love.:confused:

rexnom
05-25-2009, 03:35 PM
1.) Has anyone else been really impressed with the Chuckster? He called Orlando being this much of a problem for Cleveland WAY before anyone else.

2.) How impressive are the Celtics in retrospect? Jesus.

3.) Will someone explain to me why Dwight Howard has not worked on his post game at all. It's really frustrating to see him just struggle towards the middle, trying to overpower his way to the basket. If the refs hadn't called a blocking foul every single time anyone tried to body up on him, he would have struggled.

4.) This brings me to my next point - the officiating was terrible. The fact that this was the least entertaining CF game - by far - was not a coincidence. The officials ruined the game. How sad.

Sollozzo
05-25-2009, 03:51 PM
2.) How impressive are the Celtics in retrospect? Jesus.



I know. There is little doubt in my mind now that the Celtics with a healthy KG would have won the east (and probably the NBA title) again.

Big Smooth
05-25-2009, 04:19 PM
It is interesting how perspectives change as the playoffs go deeper. I really thought Cleveland would win this series in 5 or 6, I know that sounds silly now and maybe it reveals my lack of hoops IQ but admittedly I'm more of a casual fan of the NBA when the Pacers are not playing.

Orlando certainly does seem to be a bad matchup for the Cavs and Lebron certainly won't be able to do it himself in this series.

I do like Turkoglu's moxie though. :D

count55
05-25-2009, 04:24 PM
I had been expecting all along that Cleveland (specifically, their supporting cast) would be exposed, but I thought it would be in a 5-game loss against the Lakers in the Finals.

I must admit, I'm very surprised that Orlando has them on the ropes.

PacersRule
05-25-2009, 07:02 PM
I'd just like to point out how bad the officiating is in this series. It's making me sick. I understand that looking at replays slow the game down, but I think when the game is on the line, they should definitely look at replays and make sure they make the right call.

Jon Theodore
05-25-2009, 07:07 PM
1.) Has anyone else been really impressed with the Chuckster? He called Orlando being this much of a problem for Cleveland WAY before anyone else.

2.) How impressive are the Celtics in retrospect? Jesus.

3.) Will someone explain to me why Dwight Howard has not worked on his post game at all. It's really frustrating to see him just struggle towards the middle, trying to overpower his way to the basket. If the refs hadn't called a blocking foul every single time anyone tried to body up on him, he would have struggled.

4.) This brings me to my next point - the officiating was terrible. The fact that this was the least entertaining CF game - by far - was not a coincidence. The officials ruined the game. How sad.


Barkley always seems to make predictions that stray from what everybody else expects, and a lot of times he is right. He knows basketball.

Jon Theodore
05-25-2009, 07:07 PM
He (barkley) also called that the nuggets would beat the mavs in 5 and everyone thought he was crazy, that was before they had played a game.

Unclebuck
05-26-2009, 08:07 AM
[/B]

Now Buck, that sounds more like me than the UB we have grown to love.:confused:

I believe it is the refs job to keep the game moving and they didn't do that - so I blame the refs

carpediem024
05-26-2009, 12:45 PM
It's hard to remember a game in these playoffs where officiating has been good.

Jonathan
05-26-2009, 01:13 PM
Cleveland is the team that has blown double digit leads in the second half in two games not the officials.

PacersRule
05-26-2009, 01:19 PM
Cleveland is the team that has blown double digit leads in the second half in two games not the officials.

I had the impression that the refs were on the Cavs side? Especially after the Dwight Howard "foul" on LBJ when he was shooting the 3 towards the end of game 3.

DrBadd01
05-26-2009, 11:23 PM
How is Anderson Verijao tackling Dwight Howard at the end of regulation not a foul?

Kemo
05-26-2009, 11:47 PM
LOL , you notice everytime Mo Williams "guarantees" something , it fails?

The last time he "guaranteed" something , it was winning the skills challenge.. lol

When will he learn , you don't guarantee something, cuz you'll end up jinxing yourself ..

Shade
05-26-2009, 11:49 PM
Dammit, I hope the Magic can take out the Lakers.

Gotta give props to the refs in this one. They got the big calls all right at the end of regulation and OT.

Shade
05-26-2009, 11:50 PM
How is Anderson Verijao tackling Dwight Howard at the end of regulation not a foul?

They were both wrestling for possession. Howard hooked Varejao as much as Varejao hooked him.

Kemo
05-26-2009, 11:51 PM
I sure as heck hope Denver pulls this one out and beats the Lakers..

Denver is the team I am rooting for , for the whole thing ....

BIRDMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ......... lol

LoneGranger33
05-26-2009, 11:54 PM
Dwight Howard + two 6'10 three point shooters = Victory

Coop
05-26-2009, 11:57 PM
Dwight Howard + two 6'10 three point shooters = Victory

This is the story of the series. Cleveland just can't match up with Orlando period. Outside of Lebron, the Cavaliers are not good at all. At some point, someone needs to step up and help Lebron. Unfortunately for them, I don't think they have anyone on their roster that can do that.

These playoffs just confirm to me that Lebron's days as a Cav are numbered. Unless they can get another big wing that can score, along with a solid big man, he'll be gone after his contract is up.

Kuq_e_Zi91
05-27-2009, 12:07 AM
This is the story of the series. Cleveland just can't match up with Orlando period. Outside of Lebron, the Cavaliers are not good at all. At some point, someone needs to step up and help Lebron. Unfortunately for them, I don't think they have anyone on their roster that can do that.

These playoffs just confirm to me that Lebron's days as a Cav are numbered. Unless they can get another big wing that can score, along with a solid big man, he'll be gone after his contract is up.


Well technically the refs aren't on the roster, but they sure are giving LeBron plenty of help. LeBron takes a dive and is rewarded with two foul shots with 0.5 left to tie the game and take it to overtime. Ridiculous.

PacersRule
05-27-2009, 12:18 AM
What is up with these Cavs, this is so unlike them. I do think Cavs are a better team, but what the hell are they doing down 1-3??

PacersRule
05-27-2009, 12:21 AM
I sure as heck hope Denver pulls this one out and beats the Lakers..

Denver is the team I am rooting for , for the whole thing ....

BIRDMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ......... lol

Me too! I really like Denver's play lately, physical down low and knocking down 3s.

Mr_Smith
05-27-2009, 01:10 AM
Lebron needs help...Lebron needs help...Lebron needs help...Lebron needs help... Lebron needs help...Lebron needs help.....we've been saying this for the last 3-4 years. This is why they are down 3-1. Until Lebron gets help, theres no ring for him.

xtacy
05-27-2009, 03:32 AM
I sure as heck hope Denver pulls this one out and beats the Lakers..

Denver is the team I am rooting for , for the whole thing ....

BIRDMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ......... lol

amen.

if denver beats lakers they have a bigger chance than magic to win the championship imo.

Kemo
05-27-2009, 04:39 AM
amen.

if denver beats lakers they have a bigger chance than magic to win the championship imo.


I agree...

Orlando is clearly outclassed at the point guard position, and Denver I believe have a more rounded "team".. ..

But I will tell you , it will be one hell of a matchup .. Both teams are very good , and to be honest, I like them both ...
But I think Denver is gonna eat Orlando alive on the boards.. ESPECIALLY on the Offensive Rebounds..and 2nd chance points..

vnzla81
05-27-2009, 06:44 AM
yeah Lebron needs help, but at the same time Mike Brown needs to stop playing with the roster, one day he plays Pavlovich and the next day Gibson, he does not know what to do now, he is also playing Lebron against five guys every time and that half court is not helping, he needs to play up tempo.

Unclebuck
05-27-2009, 08:15 AM
I get tired of everyone saying how Lebron needs help - as in a second scorer. In this series the problem is the Cavs defense - not there offense

Mr_Smith
05-27-2009, 09:52 AM
Every championship team has had at least a one-two punch or even a one-two-three punch, I'm not gonna go through every team because its self-explanatory. Until Mo Williams, Delonte West, and Daniel Gibson (who gets no playing time) can play a complete game, everybody is gonna debate that Lebron is not getting help. But I do agree that Mike Brown made some bad coaching desicions in game 4 especially with Ben Wallace gaurding Rashard Lewis when he hit that three.

Shade
05-27-2009, 09:52 AM
LeBron pretty much proved last night how little confidence he has in his teammates.

Not that I necessarily blame him.

carpediem024
05-27-2009, 10:57 AM
"LeBron is the GOAT... He'll surpass Jordan...."
then this...
"He needs help..."

Pathetic.

Lebron 4th Quarter
10:33 LeBron James misses driving layup
8:33 LeBron James misses 25-foot three point jumper
7:26 LeBron James misses free throw 1 of 2 83-91
7:26 LeBron James makes free throw 2 of 2
7:03 LeBron James backcourt
3:50 LeBron James turnover
2:44 LeBron James offensive foul (Mickael Pietrus draws the foul)
2:44 LeBron James turnover
2:20 LeBron James lost ball (Mickael Pietrus steals)
1:05 LeBron James misses free throw 1 of 2
1:05 Cleveland offensive rebound
1:05 LeBron James makes free throw 2 of 2
0:44 LeBron James defensive rebound
0:21 LeBron James misses jumper

Overtime:
3:54 LeBron James bad pass
2:28LeBron James lost ball (Dwight Howard steals)
1:25LeBron James bad pass (Rafer Alston steals)
0:16Dwight Howard blocks LeBron James's layup

Unclebuck
05-27-2009, 11:31 AM
I just want to say game #4 was a great game - much much better than a lackluster game #3. Lebron did have 8 turnovers and several of those were late in the 4th and in OT. Some of that was because he was tired, but still

Sollozzo
05-27-2009, 11:40 AM
I get tired of everyone saying how Lebron needs help - as in a second scorer. In this series the problem is the Cavs defense - not there offense


Yeah, he had plenty of help this season. You don't win 66 games and have the best record in the league if you are a complete one man show. Michael Jordan was a one man show back in the 80's and the Bulls didn't post very good win totals. But Lebron had plenty of help all season long.

I feel more than confident in saying that I believe the Celtics would have made the finals again with Kevin Garnett.

Unclebuck
05-27-2009, 11:55 AM
I feel more than confident in saying that I believe the Celtics would have made the finals again with Kevin Garnett.

I agree with that. The Celtics match up better with the Magic than the Cavs do. Perkins defends Howard very well and the Celtics have players who can match up with Hedu and Lewis - while the cavs have no one to match up with either.

I still think the Cavs are a better team than the Magic against the NBA as a whole - but in a head-to-head matchup the Magic look better than the Cavs. Although each 3 of the 4 games has been close. All three of these teams will be contenders for the next 2 seasons and for the Magic and Cavs as long as they have their superstars they will be contenders for years and years. Then you add Wade in the mix with the Heat and I see the Pacers having a very difficult time ever cracking the top 3 or 4

rexnom
05-27-2009, 01:12 PM
I agree with that. The Celtics match up better with the Magic than the Cavs do. Perkins defends Howard very well and the Celtics have players who can match up with Hedu and Lewis - while the cavs have no one to match up with either.

I still think the Cavs are a better team than the Magic against the NBA as a whole - but in a head-to-head matchup the Magic look better than the Cavs.
Really? Like who? Lewis abused Davis whenever they went to him. Scalabrine? Please. Pierce looked way too exhausted by the time they finished off the Bulls. I'll take my chances with LeBron and Varajao playing 40 MPG.

I think Orlando grew more experienced playing the Celtics, like the Cs last year against the Cavs. See how much they played Reddick in game 1 vs. game 7, for example. Clearly, by game 7, they realized that their best lineups involve either Lee or Pietrus or both.

Also, Howard plays to his strengths with the Cavs and not to his weaknesses. He could probably beat both Perkins and Ilgauskas/Wallace/Varejao if he had post moves (his weakness) but he can only beat the latter by overpowering them (his strength).

SoupIsGood
05-27-2009, 01:36 PM
Really? Like who? Lewis abused Davis whenever they went to him. Scalabrine? Please.

Well, KG was back, under the scenario they were discussing.

Unclebuck
05-27-2009, 01:40 PM
Really? Like who? Lewis abused Davis whenever they went to him. Scalabrine? Please. Pierce looked way too exhausted by the time they finished off the Bulls. I'll take my chances with LeBron and Varajao playing 40 MPG.

I think Orlando grew more experienced playing the Celtics, like the Cs last year against the Cavs. See how much they played Reddick in game 1 vs. game 7, for example. Clearly, by game 7, they realized that their best lineups involve either Lee or Pietrus or both.

Also, Howard plays to his strengths with the Cavs and not to his weaknesses. He could probably beat both Perkins and Ilgauskas/Wallace/Varejao if he had post moves (his weakness) but he can only beat the latter by overpowering them (his strength).

I guess we can debate the specifics. I just think in watching each game of both series, the Celtics (although much less talented without KG and even with being tired and having other nagging injuries) were able to defend the magic better than the Cavs have. Maybe the Magic are just playing better, but the Celts have to have something to do with that

rexnom
05-27-2009, 03:14 PM
I guess we can debate the specifics. I just think in watching each game of both series, the Celtics (although much less talented without KG and even with being tired and having other nagging injuries) were able to defend the magic better than the Cavs have. Maybe the Magic are just playing better, but the Celts have to have something to do with that
I think the key is - and it's been mentioned before in this thread - is the type of defense that the Cavs play. While not strong invidually perhaps, they have great team defense that dares teams to shoot from outside, which the Magic, of course, gladly do. If that's what we mean by bad matchup then yes, the Magic are a terrible matchup. However, it's not that the Cavs don't have the players to guard the Magic, Mike Brown just needs to make the proper adjustments (which he tried for game 3, for example, by trapping Turkoglu).

Trophy
05-27-2009, 03:38 PM
This is a random question.

How do you think Zydrunas Ilgauskas would do if he played for us and how much of an effect he can be to our team and would Cleveland even let him go for some players in return?

Cactus Jax
05-27-2009, 03:47 PM
All I know is that if Orlando can seal the deal, they better pray for the Nuggets, as the Lakers are a pretty bad match-up for them.

But this series isn't over yet, it looks grim but really if the Magic slack at all, they could quickly be seeing game 7 in Cleveland. The 3-1 is so deceiving as Cleveland has 2 more home games, where Orlando has just 1.

clownskull
05-27-2009, 04:51 PM
Well technically the refs aren't on the roster, but they sure are giving LeBron plenty of help. LeBron takes a dive and is rewarded with two foul shots with 0.5 left to tie the game and take it to overtime. Ridiculous.

that was indeed a pretty sweet bailout. but when you are as big a name as he is and sell that many jerseys and related merchandise, you get certain 'perks' like an automatic no charging late in close games.
horrible call. lebron was trying sooo hard to initiate contact there but the other guy (pietrus?) was just trying to stay close and avoid the bailout call but to no avail.

Baba O'Riley
05-27-2009, 05:20 PM
LeBron James is gonna look good in a Knicks uniform.

Kid Minneapolis
05-27-2009, 05:38 PM
"LeBron is the GOAT... He'll surpass Jordan...."
then this...
"He needs help..."

Pathetic.

Lebron 4th Quarter
10:33 LeBron James misses driving layup
8:33 LeBron James misses 25-foot three point jumper
7:26 LeBron James misses free throw 1 of 2 83-91
7:26 LeBron James makes free throw 2 of 2
7:03 LeBron James backcourt
3:50 LeBron James turnover
2:44 LeBron James offensive foul (Mickael Pietrus draws the foul)
2:44 LeBron James turnover
2:20 LeBron James lost ball (Mickael Pietrus steals)
1:05 LeBron James misses free throw 1 of 2
1:05 Cleveland offensive rebound
1:05 LeBron James makes free throw 2 of 2
0:44 LeBron James defensive rebound
0:21 LeBron James misses jumper

Overtime:
3:54 LeBron James bad pass
2:28LeBron James lost ball (Dwight Howard steals)
1:25LeBron James bad pass (Rafer Alston steals)
0:16Dwight Howard blocks LeBron James's layup

I hafta agree with this. Down the stretch of these last few games, LeBron has had a ton of mistakes, that are covered up by a ridiculous last-ditch half-court 3 sprinkled in here and there.

Meanwhile, Howard dominated overtime. One might say LeBron's tired, but Cleveland had two 4-game sweeps, while Howard has gone 6 games against Philly and 7 against Boston, so 5 more games total, and not nearly the time off in between series.

If Orlando wins the series, they will have dispatched the Sixers, Boston, and finally Cleveland during this playoff run. Impressive.

Howard is shooting 62% for the series and 59% for the playoffs.

binarysolo
05-27-2009, 05:50 PM
The Cavs are down 1-3, but I'm not totally sure that they are going to lose the series. People may claim that Cleveland was lucky to pull out game 2, but really I think they were unlucky in losing both games 1 and 2. Both games featured furious Orlando come backs that you just can't rely on.

I was not impressed with the Magic at the end of game 4. It seemed like every time the Cavs would build a little lead in the 2nd half, orlando would pull a couple of 3s out of their *** to stay in the game and eventually take the lead. Maybe they can keep it up, but I thought they were not getting very good looks and were lucky to knock them down. Also, I found Howard particularly underwhelming in the 4th quarter. That dude gets the ball swiped out of his hands SO MUCH because he is so predictable. His offensive game really is bad.

I couldn't understand at the end of the game why LeBron would take any jump shot at all. He is so dangerous when he drives the lane. I know that play-by-play just posted was pretty weak, but when you watch the games it really seems apparent that if LeBron takes it to the hole, there is ~70% chance he is getting some points out of it. If he could just maintain a high level of aggressiveness in crunch time, I really think the Cavs could turn it around.

Also, whoever guards Lewis should never leave him ever. It's ridiculous when he gets open looks. He's like a taller Ray Allen.

jack bauer
05-27-2009, 07:33 PM
Maybe it is just because I am currently residing in Jacksonville, but I started watching the playoffs about a week ago (mostly eastern conference teams) and no matter who they play I have been pulling for the Magic.

I do not not if it is just because they are the only local team, simply the fact I miss basketball (I really do, even though NBA refs still suck) or if it is the fact Dwight Howard has really impressed me.

I am normally not a big bandwagon jumper, and I will not be rushing out to buy any Magic gear or Howard jerseys, but I definitely will be pulling for them, at least to finish out the series.

Does anyone want to buy 2 lower bowl tickets for Saturdays game (if there is a game 6) and donate them to me?

Kemo
05-27-2009, 07:53 PM
Does anyone want to buy 2 lower bowl tickets for Saturdays game (if there is a game 6) and donate them to me?


LOL I'm sure people are gonna be scattering in line, to be jumpin all over that ... :dance::dance:

Shade
05-28-2009, 11:34 PM
The Cavs finally get a somewhat convincing win. Take Game 6 and things get really interesting.

vnzla81
05-28-2009, 11:38 PM
yeah, I still think that there is going to be a game 7, cleveland is looking better.

Kuq_e_Zi91
05-28-2009, 11:54 PM
I still think the Magic win the series. The combination of foul trouble, hot shooting from Mo/Gibson, and Lewis/Alston having off games really hurt the Magic. Even then they were still in this one.

Should be a different story in Orlando.

Hicks
05-29-2009, 12:02 AM
Yeah, I think this was Cleveland's hardest punch, and I expect them to lose Game 6. I'm still somewhat stunned because I thought this was CLE's year to win the championship, but I underestimated (big time) this horrible matchup for them that Orlando presents.

In comparison to the rest of the league, I think Cleveland is a better team than Orlando. But put them together, and Orlando has the advantage.

Sollozzo
05-29-2009, 12:19 AM
The Cavs finally get a somewhat convincing win. Take Game 6 and things get really interesting.

I don't think it was even the least bit convincing. Orlando had a chance to win that game until the very end. It took Lebron's hand in 32 straight points for the Cavs to pull out the victory at home. We'll see if guys like Mo Williams show up like that in Orlando....

Mr_Smith
05-29-2009, 12:50 AM
Lebron finally got his help. Mo Williams got 24. The Cavs are 29-5 or something like that when Mo scores 20 or more points. I don't think they can win game 6 though.

BlueNGold
05-29-2009, 07:08 AM
Not much more to say. It shows that James' talents go way beyond pure athleticism:

"As amazing as the 25 consecutive points he ran off against the Detroit Pistons (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/det/;_ylt=AncHcc1OvaJY8Y26Ug65nbvqxLsF) in Game 5 of the 2007 East finals were, this may have been more impressive. That was James literally going one-on-five and the one winning.

This was a step up from just pure physical ability. There was that, too, of course. He overpowered defenders at times and outran them at others. He also out-thought them on nearly every trip down the court.

Blessed with myriad skills and an unprecedented combination of size and speed, it’s too easy to ignore James’ gift of pure basketball instincts. With the entire season on the line no one in Cleveland flinched at the idea of letting James freelance the entire quarter.

He passed when it was time to pass. He shot when it was time to shoot. He drove the lane when it was time to drive the lane. He used each teammate perfectly, and, for once, was able to bust a game open so Orlando couldn’t steal it away late.
There was no hesitation, no second thought, no timeout to get everyone in order. It was a straight dose of LeBron’s brilliance, the conductor choosing the tune and the band trying to keep up.

His astounding line – 37 points, 14 rebounds and 12 assists – doesn’t begin to describe it."

Source: Yahoo Sports Wetzel column

Unclebuck
05-29-2009, 08:20 AM
Amazing display by Lebron. I was getting fristrated though as Reggie during the game and the guys on TNT after the game were saying the Cavs were runnung the exact same play as they always do. It was similar, but also different. Instead of Lebron getting the ball just across midcourt and running a high screen and roll - last night he got the ball or tried to get the ball as close to the free throw line as possible and they didn't set any picsk for him after he got the ball - he just went 1 on 1. Overall it was more effective than what they were doing in past games.

I am expecting the Magic to win game 6 though - unless something unusual happens

Sollozzo
05-29-2009, 11:53 AM
I think the Magic will win in 6 too, though if Cleveland can pull game 6 out I think Cleveland pulls a game 7 out as well. But I admit that I thought Boston would win game 7 as well.

I wouldn't feel that great if I were a Cavs fan. A win is a win, but I would have liked to have seen a much more convincing win in that situation at home.

vnzla81
05-30-2009, 09:39 PM
I think this series is over, cleveland is playing like crap, Mike Bron did not learn not to play Ilgauskas on D howard, stupid mistake. I wanted cleveland to win but I think that Orlando has the biggest chance to beat LA

Sollozzo
05-30-2009, 09:41 PM
Game over.

vnzla81
05-30-2009, 09:48 PM
Mike Brown might get fire next year, he is making this team look bad, one day he plays Pavlovich and the next day he play Wally I don't understand?:confused:

PacerDude
05-30-2009, 10:11 PM
Mike Brown might get fired next year.How quickly things can turn around for the Coach of the Year.

Kemo
05-30-2009, 10:15 PM
How quickly things can turn around for the Coach of the Year.


Seems reminiscent of Sam Mitchell eh?
Like Deja-Vu

kester99
05-30-2009, 10:27 PM
There's the added drama...does Cleveland blow up the roster / staff if eliminated from a conference final?

Trader Joe
05-30-2009, 11:10 PM
Mike Brown never, ever deserved coach of the year. It was totally ridiculous that he won. Especially when you look at what some other coaches did this year.

The Magic were the better TEAM. We can all act like Lebron had a great supporting cast, but I'm sorry I'm not buying it. That team is just a poorly built roster after him. They don't have a single other player on that team capable of creating his own shot. Mo is a spot up shooter and nothing more.

vnzla81
05-30-2009, 11:11 PM
I hope Orlando kills the Lakers, Cleveland needs to make some trades next year to make Lebron happy, maybe getting Richard Jefferson, Michael Red or even Vince carter, he is going to need a lot of help.

d_c
05-30-2009, 11:12 PM
I hope Orlando kills the Lakers, Cleveland needs to make some trades next year to make Lebron happy, maybe getting Richard Jefferson, Michael Red or even Vince carter, he is going to need a lot of help.

I hope so tool, but the Magic aren't going to enjoy the same kind of mismatch advantages with Lewis/Turkoglu against the Lakers (who have Odom/Ariza to guard them). They're teamwide size advantage won't exist against them.

Sollozzo
05-30-2009, 11:24 PM
Did I just see Lebron not congratulate any of the Magic after the buzzer? I'm not trying to be petty here, and maybe he is congratulating them behind the scenes in the Orlando locker room, but if Kobe walked straight off like that then everyone would be calling him smug/sore loser/you name it.

I just think that's bad taste. The rest of his teammates stayed out there and all of the Nuggets congratulated the Lakers last night. You know losing has to sting a former finals MVP like Billups, but he was able to hang around and congratulate the Lakers.

Honestly, there is no excuse for Lebron not spending a couple of minutes to give the Magic players props.

vnzla81
05-30-2009, 11:26 PM
can you guys imagine if the Magic instead of having Rafer Alston they had Tinsley? :)

rexnom
05-30-2009, 11:55 PM
Mike Brown never, ever deserved coach of the year. It was totally ridiculous that he won. Especially when you look at what some other coaches did this year.

The Magic were the better TEAM. We can all act like Lebron had a great supporting cast, but I'm sorry I'm not buying it. That team is just a poorly built roster after him. They don't have a single other player on that team capable of creating his own shot. Mo is a spot up shooter and nothing more.
You just made the case for why Mike Brown and LeBron James after leading the Cavs to an astounding 66 wins (that's five more than the 04 Pacers and ten more than the Finals 00 Pacers) deserved coach of the year and MVP, which are, after all, regular season awards.

Kemo
05-30-2009, 11:56 PM
Did Lebron really not congratulate any of the Magic after the final buzzer? I'm not trying to be petty here, and maybe he is congratulating them behind the scenes in the locker room, but if Kobe did that then everyone would be calling him smug.

I just think that's bad taste. All of the Nuggets were congratulating the Lakers last night, and you know a guy like Billups has to feel the same amount of sting as Lebron does now.


Nope he sure as heck didn't .. Lebron did indeed go to the locker room .. then went straight to the bus...


I have always liked Lebron as a player and what is seemingly a good dude...Never cared for the star treatment he receives from the refs though, but imho it was very unsportsmanlike to go back to the bus and wallow in his disappointment without doing his TNT interview, nor congratulating the winning team ....

I don't see him being a Cav much longer unless they accomodate him with a better team surrounding him.. and I think he will demand it as an ultimatum to Cleveland or he will walk to the highest bidder ..


It's pretty bad when Petrieus outscores the whole Cleveland bench .. that outta tell ya something..

On a side note , Dwight was an absolute BEAST ...

I sure hope they dominate the Lakers.. I hate L.A.

.
.

carpediem024
05-31-2009, 12:42 AM
Ah, I remember the day people called me crazy for saying that the Magic will win this series. They sure will be tough though. And that's sad. I didn't see the end of the game but to hear that he walked out and refused press conferences... Sad... But I'm sure others will overlook it.

jeffg-body
05-31-2009, 12:44 AM
Well, IMO Cleveland deserved to lose. When you play poorly you deserve to lose. Wow, Dwight Howard is the real deal. How about Raefer Alston and Rashard Lewis.

jack bauer
05-31-2009, 12:58 AM
Did Lebron really not congratulate any of the Magic after the final buzzer? I'm not trying to be petty here, and maybe he is congratulating them behind the scenes in the Orlando locker room, but if Kobe walked straight off like that then everyone would be calling him smug.

I just think that's bad taste. All of the Nuggets were congratulating the Lakers last night, and you know a guy like Billups has to feel the same amount of sting as Lebron does now.

I noticed this as well.

duke dynamite
05-31-2009, 01:26 AM
Well, this was the only game I've watched this playoffs.

It....made me...very...very happy.

Sollozzo
05-31-2009, 01:43 AM
Good remarks by Jalen on ESPN.

Paraphrasing: "Had the Cavs won the game he would've been at the press conference a nice suit on, his hat on backwards, and a smile on his face."

"The Detroit Pistons and Atlanta Hawks shook Lebron's hand when they lost. Everyone else faces the music, Lebron's not the only one playing in this league."

I agree with Jalen. I enjoy Lebron, but classless is the only word to describe not shaking the Magic's hands and bailing on the press conference.

Kuq_e_Zi91
05-31-2009, 02:00 AM
I agree with what's being said about LeBron. I think the toughest times show who people really are and we're getting a real good look at LeBron right now.

On another note, did anyone notice Z? He looks completely finished. Maybe it was just Dwight Howard making him look worse than he is, but I don't see him being able to contribute in a starting role anymore. The Cavs really need to start looking for his replacement and maybe have Z stick around and mentor him from the bench.

binarysolo
05-31-2009, 02:40 AM
maybe it's just me. I'm 100% ok with LeBron not congratulating the other team. He expected to be in the finals this year. He was pissed off. I -like- to see that emotion. I appreciate his passion and his drive. This was a total let down for him. I am okay with his sulking off and simmering in his disappointment.


Also, am I the only one that is totally unimpressed with Alston? He has played ok... but Jameer is head and shoulders the better player. I think with Nelson they are a threat to win the ring, but I don't think they can take on the Lakers without Nelson. He is such a good offensive player. Alston is an average shooter who got hot in game 5 (?) and I think doesn't deserve all of the praise being heaped on him. They rely on Turkgolu to run the offense. etc. etc.

d_c
05-31-2009, 02:43 AM
Also, am I the only one that is totally unimpressed with Alston? He has played ok... but Jameer is head and shoulders the better player. I think with Nelson they are a threat to win the ring, but I don't think they can take on the Lakers without Nelson. He is such a good offensive player. Alston is an average shooter who got hot in game 5 (?) and I think doesn't deserve all of the praise being heaped on him. They rely on Turkgolu to run the offense. etc. etc.

Jameer Nelson is much better than Alston, but had they not made the trade for Alston, they wouldn't be in the position they're in right now.

Mr_Smith
05-31-2009, 02:54 AM
I hope Orlando kills the Lakers, Cleveland needs to make some trades next year to make Lebron happy, maybe getting Richard Jefferson, Michael Red or even Vince carter, he is going to need a lot of help.


Exactly.....Lebron needs that second punch if he even wants to sniff that Larry O'brien trophy. Until then everybody will question the players around him. Outside of him and Mo Williams, who do the Cavs really have on that team????

PacerDude
05-31-2009, 09:19 AM
If Cleveland wants to get out of the East, they need someone to counter Howard. Orlando is going to be good for quite a while with him. Cleveland had nothing for him. Problem is, good bigs aren't readily available.

I don't think LA will have an answer for him either.

Digressing, I really don't like the 2-3-2 format for the Finals. Makes it awfully tough on the #2 seed.

idioteque
05-31-2009, 10:33 AM
LeBron is a sore loser...but I still won't blame him if he leaves Cleveland next year.

That team has done an absolutely ****-poor job trying to build a supporting cast around a possible GOAT, and believe me, this is the only GOAT possibility who will ever play for Cleveland, ever. They are pissing away a once-in-a-franchise opportunity.

count55
05-31-2009, 10:38 AM
LeBron is a sore loser...but I still won't blame him if he leaves Cleveland next year.

That team has done an absolutely ****-poor job trying to build a supporting cast around a possible GOAT, and believe me, this is the only GOAT possibility who will ever play for Cleveland, ever. They are pissing away a once-in-a-franchise opportunity.

Yes, and while I will not weep for Cleveland, I certainly am not savoring the thought of playing against LeBron's Knicks for the next half decade.

idioteque
05-31-2009, 10:43 AM
Yes, and while I will not weep for Cleveland, I certainly am not savoring the thought of playing against LeBron's Knicks for the next half decade.

Half decade? Unfortunately LeBron could be a star on the Knicks for around 10 years or so when you look at his age now.

But really, if the Pacers were in the same situation as the Cavs and literally got a player who was in the same stratosphere as MJ, Magic, and Kobe and pissed it all away like the Cavaliers are doing, I don't know if I could be a fan after that.

Historically we're a much better run franchise than Cleveland though so if we struck gold I think we would take advantage of it.

Trader Joe
05-31-2009, 10:45 AM
You just made the case for why Mike Brown and LeBron James after leading the Cavs to an astounding 66 wins (that's five more than the 04 Pacers and ten more than the Finals 00 Pacers) deserved coach of the year and MVP, which are, after all, regular season awards.

I think Lebron deserved MVP, absolutely. I do not however believe Brown deserved coach of the year.

count55
05-31-2009, 10:53 AM
Half decade? Unfortunately LeBron could be a star on the Knicks for around 10 years or so when you look at his age now.

But really, if the Pacers were in the same situation as the Cavs and literally got a player who was in the same stratosphere as MJ, Magic, and Kobe and pissed it all away like the Cavaliers are doing, I don't know if I could be a fan after that.

Historically we're a much better run franchise than Cleveland though so if we struck gold I think we would take advantage of it.

They keep swinging and missing: Hughes, Wallace, Mo Williams. I know Williams made the All-Star team, but, as your #2 option?

They've got a couple of nice sized expirings in Wallace and Z, but they don't have much in the way of young guys and their picks are going to be late 1st rounders. Z, they'd have to replace his production, but Wallace they could shop to some team looking for cap relief.

Sollozzo
05-31-2009, 11:35 AM
maybe it's just me. I'm 100% ok with LeBron not congratulating the other team. He expected to be in the finals this year. He was pissed off. I -like- to see that emotion. I appreciate his passion and his drive. This was a total let down for him. I am okay with his sulking off and simmering in his disappointment.




See I don't buy that at all. That's putting Lebron on a pedestal and saying that he can act a certain way just because he is a great player. Lebron may be the best player in the NBA, but that doesn't mean that he feels more emotions than the other players. All of these guys poor their hearts and souls into these playoffs, and Lebron is no different. But EVERY other big star (correct me if I'm wrong) has taken time.

You don't think Pierce was totally let down when the Magic blew his team out in game 7 on HIS floor? I bet he felt just as crappy as Lebron did last night, but he still took a few minutes to congratulate the Magic.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/media/photo/2009-05/46976424.jpg

In Reggie's book, he talks about how he was basically sick when the Pacers lost game 7 to the Knicks in 1994. But he still took time to congratulate the Knicks and Spike Lee. He even went to Ewing in the locker room after the game to congratulate him.

What Lebron did last night was classless, and their is no way around it, IMO. Just because he is Lebron James doesn't mean that he deserves to be treated a different way. And just because he's Lebron James doesn't mean that he feels superior emotions to other players. He acted like a 12 year old that just got owned by his best friend in a one on one game.

Shade
05-31-2009, 12:08 PM
Gotta give C-Webb and Sir Chuck their due. They totally called this one.

As for LeBron, no excuse for acting the way he did. Hopefully this experience will humble him a bit. He's a great player, but his head has gotten way too big. With that said, however, he did pretty much everything he could, but Cleveland has one of the worst benches in the league. He needs help.

I'm a Magic fan now. Hope they can beat the Lakers. :pray:

Sollozzo
05-31-2009, 12:50 PM
Lakers in 6. LA wins the first 2 at home, steals 1 in Orlando, then wraps it up at home in game 6.

Kobe wins the finals MVP and gets everyone off his back.

focused444
05-31-2009, 12:55 PM
looking back not turning Wally Szczerbiak's expiring 10 mil contract into someone that could of really helped lebron at the trade deadline was a huge mistake...the cavs said the were happy with their chemistry at the time. i personally think it was a 100% financial decision not to move him...which is understandable, but when a team is that close you gotta make the move to send then over the top.

I can't believe i will be cheering for Hedo Turkoglu...:eek:

rexnom
05-31-2009, 01:38 PM
They keep swinging and missing: Hughes, Wallace, Mo Williams. I know Williams made the All-Star team, but, as your #2 option?

They've got a couple of nice sized expirings in Wallace and Z, but they don't have much in the way of young guys and their picks are going to be late 1st rounders. Z, they'd have to replace his production, but Wallace they could shop to some team looking for cap relief.
Whoa, whoa. I'd say Hughes is the only swing-and-a-miss and it's such a huge miss that it still has huge consequences now. The Ben Wallace trade was a "my crap for your crap" type of trade. They got Mo Williams basically for Damon Jones and Joe Smith (who came back later). That's not a swing and a miss, even if Mo isn't a great number two.

I still am not convinced that the problem is on offense. Including the last game where they only scored 90, Cleveland averaged over 100 points/game and I am supposed to believe LeBron needs more offensive help?

Here's your problem:



Magic Regular Season Opponents

PPG 101.0 91.4

FG% .456 .433

3FG% .381 .333

3PM 10.3 5.88

Cleveland just didn't play like Cleveland. I don't buy that they need more offensive help. Maybe LeBron needs more defensive help but again, I doubt that. Why could they play good defense during the regular season. I'd say that what's missing is maybe a Trevor Ariza/James Posey-type. Someone that you could put out there with LeBron at the forward spots for more flexibility to go small and matchup with Orlando-type teams.

I agree that not flipping Wally for a player like that was a huge mistake, especially with this Chinese deal looming - how could they think of finances?

PacersRule
05-31-2009, 01:43 PM
Yes, and while I will not weep for Cleveland, I certainly am not savoring the thought of playing against LeBron's Knicks for the next half decade.

And plus, if Amare Stoudamire decides to join in also...

vnzla81
05-31-2009, 02:08 PM
If I was Cleveland next year I would try to sing either Odom or Ron Artest to help Lebron in defense and trade Ben to Phoenix for Shaq, I would also try to get Rasheed Wallace he could help them in defense and offense, this could be a better team that the one they have now, where they don't have a big men to guard Howard and a decent PF who can shoot and open the floor for Lebron.

Infinite MAN_force
05-31-2009, 02:49 PM
Whoa, whoa. I'd say Hughes is the only swing-and-a-miss and it's such a huge miss that it still has huge consequences now. The Ben Wallace trade was a "my crap for your crap" type of trade. They got Mo Williams basically for Damon Jones and Joe Smith (who came back later). That's not a swing and a miss, even if Mo isn't a great number two.

I still am not convinced that the problem is on offense. Including the last game where they only scored 90, Cleveland averaged over 100 points/game and I am supposed to believe LeBron needs more offensive help?

Here's your problem:



Magic Regular Season Opponents

PPG 101.0 91.4

FG% .456 .433

3FG% .381 .333

3PM 10.3 5.88

Cleveland just didn't play like Cleveland. I don't buy that they need more offensive help. Maybe LeBron needs more defensive help but again, I doubt that. Why could they play good defense during the regular season. I'd say that what's missing is maybe a Trevor Ariza/James Posey-type. Someone that you could put out there with LeBron at the forward spots for more flexibility to go small and matchup with Orlando-type teams.

I agree that not flipping Wally for a player like that was a huge mistake, especially with this Chinese deal looming - how could they think of finances?

I recently realized that Cleveland has no small forwards on their team that can defend besides Lebron, because Wally is totally worthless.

Hedo and Rashard totally killed them because of this... Lebron can't gaurd both of them at the same time, and when he has to leave the game they have nobody who can gaurd either one of them. Delonte west is a good defender but you can't expect a 6-4 guy to gaurd small forwards. Varejo just cannot contain Lewis. Those guys are too quick for their bigs and too big for their gaurds to deal with.

I disagree with the idea that they can't contain howard, I think the problem is they can't contain hedo and lewis AND Howard.

Its funny, but I think Ron Artest would solve a lot of Clevelands problems, and probably could be had for a bargain considering his rep... worth the risk?

binarysolo
06-01-2009, 12:29 AM
What Lebron did last night was classless, and their is no way around it, IMO.



Yeah, you are probably right. I probably just sympathize with LeBron because I'm a bit of a sore loser myself. I just imagine that it must be crushing for him, to work so hard year in and year out and then fail to reach his goal. I'm okay with him just wanting to be alone. I don't think he actually feels any malice towards Orlando, I'm just not entirely sure why it's necessary for him to put on that face right at the end of the game. Does he really owe it to his opponents to congratulate them? It certainly would be classy, but I don't think negatively of a guy for failing to do so.

SoupIsGood
06-01-2009, 12:45 AM
Yeah, you are probably right. I probably just sympathize with LeBron because I'm a bit of a sore loser myself. I just imagine that it must be crushing for him, to work so hard year in and year out and then fail to reach his goal. I'm okay with him just wanting to be alone. I don't think he actually feels any malice towards Orlando, I'm just not entirely sure why it's necessary for him to put on that face right at the end of the game. Does he really owe it to his opponents to congratulate them? It certainly would be classy, but I don't think negatively of a guy for failing to do so.

This is kind of how I feel. If a guy doesn't skulk or make a big show of it, I have a hard time being too bothered by his just wanting to get the hell outta there. Much rather see that than him acting like an agitated dick at the presser and so on.

Unclebuck
06-01-2009, 08:30 AM
Yeah, as I have posted in this thread - it was the cavs defense they could not contain the Magic - the Magic carved them up. They neededsomeone who can guard Howard better and then they need a smaller power forward who can guard Lewis and a small forward to guard Hedo.

In todays NBA having a power forward who can shoot threes is hugely important and being able to go small is hugely important

rexnom
06-01-2009, 02:26 PM
Yeah, as I have posted in this thread - it was the cavs defense they could not contain the Magic - the Magic carved them up. They neededsomeone who can guard Howard better and then they need a smaller power forward who can guard Lewis and a small forward to guard Hedo.

In todays NBA having a power forward who can shoot threes is hugely important and being able to go small is hugely important
So...what you're saying is that Troy Murphy is our PF of the future? ;)

billbradley
06-03-2009, 04:23 PM
http://www.cleveland.com/
Monday Thoughts - June 1, 2009
Michael Curry

http://blog.cleveland.com/cavshq/2009/06/monday_thoughts_june_1_2009.html


- Am I the only one who is thinking back to the 2008 NBA Draft and wishing Roy Hibbert had fallen to the Cavaliers at the 19th pick? Hibbert is one of the few players with the size to give Dwight Howard problems, and he went to Indiana with the 17th pick. I don't think there's any chance that the Pacers would part with him now, but there aren't many big men out there that are even possibilities.

Young
06-03-2009, 04:31 PM
I don't feel bad for Lebron.

What a punk. Not only for not shaking hands or talking to the media but he tried to justify it the next day. I know Shaq/Kobe didn't shake hands either but they hate each other. Does Lebron really hate the Magic because it isn't their fault Lebron's Cavs chocked.

Lebron has a cast that is good enough to win a title. They could use some help up front sure but they won their fair share of games this year to say the least. Hard to beat a team when they shoot what? 50% from 3 point range.

Doddage
06-03-2009, 04:45 PM
To think, certain posters on here laughed that the Magic signed Mickael Pietrus to the deal they did. I guess that's why Otis Smith gets paid to do the job he does and those posters are not.

rexnom
06-03-2009, 04:49 PM
To think, certain posters on here laughed that the Magic signed Mickael Pietrus to the deal they did. I guess that's why Otis Smith gets paid to do the job he does and those posters are not.
He also traded Trevor Ariza for Bryan Cook and Mo Evans. The Pietrus signing wasn't that bad IMO (in terms of money). The Rashard Lewis signing was very good but still cost wayyyyy too much. Smith overbid by an unnecessary 20 million. It might screw them over this summer in trying to resign Turkoglu.

That being said, the Magic have made some really nice pickups - Pietrus, Lewis, Alston, Lee, Gortat. They've surrounded their Turkoglu-Howard core with some really nice pieces.

d_c
06-03-2009, 04:53 PM
The Rashard Lewis signing was very good but still cost wayyyyy too much. Smith overbid by an unnecessary 20 million. It might screw them over this summer in trying to resign Turkoglu.


Correct. The Lewis signing was good, but they paid extra money that they didn't need to pay to get him. He was an unrestricted FA and it wasn't as if the then Seattle Sonics were looking to keep him, LOL.

Similar to the time the Hawks got Joe Johnson from the Suns in a S&T and gave up 2 first round picks to do it. A good acquisition for sure, but they didn't need to give up the picks. Phx was not going to match any offers as they were not going to pay the luxury tax to keep Johnson (as evidenced by some of the cost cutting moves they've made lately.)