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View Full Version : Bender's year in review



Unclebuck
06-30-2004, 01:08 PM
2003http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/bender_page_0304.html-04 in Review:

Jonathan Bender

Height: 7-0 Weight: 219 Age: 23 (1/30/81)

Regular Season: He started the season on the injured list, missing the first 39 games of the season due to off-season surgery on his left knee. ...

Returned to the injured list on Jan. 23 and missed seven games with post-operative soreness in the knee ...

Had another stint on the injured list, from 3/24 to 4/9, missing nine games due to a right shoulder sprain ...

He averaged 7.0 ppg for the season, scoring in 19 of his 21 appearances. ...

Had eight double-figure outings, including a season-high 16 points at Boston, 3/12…Three of those outings were in consecutive wins from 2/20 to 2/24, when he had 11 points at Washington, 11 points vs. Utah and 12 points vs. Golden State. ...

Had the best shooting season of his career, setting season career-highs in all three shooting categories ...

he shot 50-106 (.472) FGS, 9-22 (.409) 3-pt FGS and 39-47 (.830) FTS.

Playoffs: Played all six games of conference finals against Detroit, averaging 9.3 points and 2.7 points ...

Averaged 3.5 points in the second round against Miami ....

Had some big moments in the first round against Boston ... Tied for the team lead in scoring with a playoff career-best 19 points in Game 3 at Boston, 4/23…His six field goals made, 12 field goals attempted, five free throws made and attempted in that game were also playoff career-highs. ... Added a playoff career-high seven rebounds to lead the bench in Game 2 and played a playoff career-high 28 minutes in Game 2. ... Tied a postseason career-high with two blocked shots in Game 3 at Boston, 4/23, and he was second on the team with four blocked shots in the series. ... Hit at least one 3-pt FG in each of the last three games and shot 4-9 from long range (.444) in the series with the Celtics

Plus-Minus: Ranked 13th during the regular season at -0.8 per game ... Was ninth during the playoffs at +0.5 per game

Contract Status: Signed through 2006-07

Analysis: Instead of a breakout season, it was another breakdown season for Bender, who has appeared in a total of 67 games in the past two seasons. He continues to show incredible bursts of potential and can take over a game in brief spurts but has yet to approach the needed consistency and durability to become a regular contributor.

He has gotten stronger and showed a much more aggressive posture when he was healthy, both positive trends. If moves are made at small forward, serious playing time could be made available next season. It'll be up to him to not only earn, but keep, a bigger role.

Hicks
06-30-2004, 01:11 PM
http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/bender_page_0304.html

PHC Fan
06-30-2004, 03:53 PM
Which did he average against Detroit (9.3 or 2.7 points)?

Zesty
06-30-2004, 03:57 PM
Probably 9.3 pts and 2.7 boards.

I didn't realize he had missed THAT much time the past two years.

DisplacedKnick
06-30-2004, 04:36 PM
Which did he average against Detroit (9.3 or 2.7 points)?

2.7

Bender has never given any indication that he can be effective when teams guard him tightly.

Bball
06-30-2004, 05:02 PM
Which did he average against Detroit (9.3 or 2.7 points)?


Could it be 9.3 minures and 2.7 points?

-Bball

Bball
06-30-2004, 05:04 PM
I think I have myself a sig...:P

" Instead of a breakout season, it was another breakdown season for Bender"

-Bball

Suaveness
06-30-2004, 05:23 PM
" Instead of a breakout season, it was another breakdown season for Bender"

Somehow it wouldn;t surprise me if it happened again.

Unclebuck
06-30-2004, 05:26 PM
If Bender is healthy next season, and gets 25 - 30 minutes per game, I think he'll average 15 points per game easy, and he'll be a matchup nightmare for every team in the league. I believe that

Suaveness
06-30-2004, 05:36 PM
If Bender is healthy next season, and gets 25 - 30 minutes per game, I think he'll average 15 points per game easy, and he'll be a matchup nightmare for every team in the league. I believe that


"If" is the key word. If Bender could stay healthy. If he was healthy this year, he coudl have gotten that many points. But I have no idea whether or not he can stay healthy.

pacersteve
06-30-2004, 05:50 PM
Count me as an optimist, but I believe Bender is going to be a star in a few years, maybe not on a par with O'Neal but much better than Harrington. He'll put up offensive numbers comparable to what Artest has this past year. His injuries are attributable to his body still developing and getting bigger.

indygeezer
06-30-2004, 06:13 PM
With health and consistant minutes, he will soon have Garnett-like impact.

I view it much like my typing skills. For many years I was a lousy typist. I could give you a few seconds of flurry but then I'd stop and say "wow, what am I doing?? I can't type." And I'd be back to tap, tap, tap. Then my job changed and I HAD to type. Now I can be respectable at it. Same with JB, he's got to learn how to do it, and until he HAS to, he can't.
Give him the minutes and the responsibility and THEN see what he does. Until then he's being allowed to fail.

beast23
06-30-2004, 07:29 PM
"....can take over a game in brief spurts...."

Let's don't get carried away. When someone is open and drives for dunk... that's not called taking over a game. Or occassionally hitting 2-3 consecutive dunk shots within a couple of minutes..... that's not called taking over a game.

I've been as hard on Bender as anyone. I will admit that I've finally seen some progress in Bender this season. A little more aggression. A defense that enables him to at least serve some purpose. A simpler offense that he is not totally lost in.

But I really haven't seen enough of anything that would get me anxious about monitoring his progress next season.... or even seeing him in a Pacer uniform, for that matter.

Certainly not like Freddie. Freddie's defense is a constant. He does a decent job of slashing to the basket, and his perimeter shot and mid-range game really came around the last half to last third of the season.

Now about Freddie.... I'm very excited about seeing how much he might improve over the summer..... I believe it is possible that Freddie could have a BREAK-OUT season next year because he has shown me something with an acceptable degree of consistency.

Bender, on the other hand? FIVE feakin' years and through all the injuries, through all the clue-less games, he just now is showing a little. But with no continued degree of consistency.

He did show a little bit in the playoffs. But you put that with what he did during the last two seasons, and I can't say I'd be sad if he weren't with us next season. And I wouldn't be sad if he were with us at the start of the season to see if he's made progress.

But as far as I'm concerned, if it takes more than Al to complete a trade, and Pollard won't get it done, Bender is the guy I'd throw in. Certainly before Croshere, and even before Freddie.

Kegboy
06-30-2004, 10:14 PM
Certainly before Croshere...


So your saying you'd rather keep Croshere, at twice Bender's salary?

:confused:

---
:duel:

beast23
06-30-2004, 11:18 PM
Twice? Not hardly.

Next season Croshere $8.2M, Bender $6.4M.

I'd keep Croshere because right now he's twice the player, though.

Bender playing behind Artest will get very few minutes at SF.

Bender is not capable of playing both ends of the floor as an SG.

Bender is not capable of playing either end of the floor at PF. And quite frankly, Croshere is a significantly better interior player than Bender.

So, yes. I'd take one Croshere over 5 Benders.

ABADays
07-02-2004, 08:58 AM
Review: sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, play, play, sit, sit, sit, sit, play, sit, sit sit, sit, sit, sit, sit , sit, play, play, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, sit, play, sit, sit . . . you get the picture.

Grant
07-02-2004, 10:36 AM
I've said it before but Bender's only problem is between his ears.

We need to find a way to get Reggie's swagger, Artest's intensity, and Foster's effort into Bender's brain. He would instantly be the best player on the the team.

Grant
07-02-2004, 10:44 AM
You can interpret this as you will:


R. Allen.............44.0 FG%; 39.1 3P%
J. Crawford......38.6 FG%; 31.7 3P%
M. Ginobili........41.8 FG%; 35.9 3P%
L. Hughes........39.7 FG%; 34.0 3P%
T. McGrady.......41.7 FG%; 33.9 3P%
C. Mobley.........42.5 FG%; 39.0 3P%
F. Murray.........42.5 FG%; 29.3 3P%
P. Pierce...........40.2 FG%; 29.9 3P%
M. Redd............44.0 FG%; 35.0 3P%
Q. Richardson...39.8 FG%; 35.2 3P%
J. Richardson....43.9 FG%; 28.2 3P%

J Bender...........47.2 FG%; 40.9 3P%

beast23
07-02-2004, 11:02 AM
I'm glad you left a little white space between Bender and the players you have listed.... because his name should not even be used in the same sentence as the other players.

The other players, mostly starters, heavy-minute players who play significant roles on their teams. A few are capable of making other players around them better.

When we speak of a lack of consistency, we are talking about so much more than just FG%, 3FG% and FT%.

We are talking about defense, what position(s) he might be able to guard, the positions that he will never be able to guard.

We are talking about his role in the offense, and his willingness to engage in that role.

We are talking about his physical presence, or lack thereof, on the interior.

And basically, his level of awareness on both ends of the court.

He has been putting on the uniform for 5 years, yet he still has a long way to go. On the positive side, it appears to me anyway, that he is just now starting to make some positive strides.

I just question how much more time is required to build upon those positive strides to create anything resembling "consistent adequacy", let alone excellence.

Bball
07-02-2004, 01:32 PM
I'm glad you left a little white space between Bender and the players you have listed.... because his name should not even be used in the same sentence as the other players.

The other players, mostly starters, heavy-minute players who play significant roles on their teams. A few are capable of making other players around them better.

When we speak of a lack of consistency, we are talking about so much more than just FG%, 3FG% and FT%.

We are talking about defense, what position(s) he might be able to guard, the positions that he will never be able to guard.

We are talking about his role in the offense, and his willingness to engage in that role.

We are talking about his physical presence, or lack thereof, on the interior.

And basically, his level of awareness on both ends of the court.

He has been putting on the uniform for 5 years, yet he still has a long way to go. On the positive side, it appears to me anyway, that he is just now starting to make some positive strides.

I just question how much more time is required to build upon those positive strides to create anything resembling "consistent adequacy", let alone excellence.




I'd help you out in this debate but you are doing fine by yourself.

At the rate Bender is going he's in a race against his "Breakout Season" and his "Retirement Tour" to see which comes first.

Honestly tho... his injuries seem to be a bit of a blessing for him because they keep buying him more time for his "breakout season" to arrive.

-Bball

PacerMan
07-02-2004, 01:38 PM
Twice? Not hardly.

Next season Croshere $8.2M, Bender $6.4M.

I'd keep Croshere because right now he's twice the player, though.

Bender playing behind Artest will get very few minutes at SF.

Bender is not capable of playing both ends of the floor as an SG.

Bender is not capable of playing either end of the floor at PF. And quite frankly, Croshere is a significantly better interior player than Bender.

So, yes. I'd take one Croshere over 5 Benders.


:yikes:

RA231
07-03-2004, 01:40 AM
Certainly not like Freddie. Freddie's defense is a constant. He does a decent job of slashing to the basket, and his perimeter shot and mid-range game really came around the last half to last third of the season.

Now about Freddie.... I'm very excited about seeing how much he might improve over the summer..... I believe it is possible that Freddie could have a BREAK-OUT season next year because he has shown me something with an acceptable degree of consistency.

Bender, on the other hand? FIVE feakin' years and through all the injuries, through all the clue-less games, he just now is showing a little. But with no continued degree of consistency.

He did show a little bit in the playoffs. But you put that with what he did during the last two seasons, and I can't say I'd be sad if he weren't with us next season. And I wouldn't be sad if he were with us at the start of the season to see if he's made progress.

But as far as I'm concerned, if it takes more than Al to complete a trade, and Pollard won't get it done, Bender is the guy I'd throw in. Certainly before Croshere, and even before Freddie.



I like Freddie and hope he gets the majority of the minutes at SG. I know Miller will start, but he will be like a Harrington last year. Harrington got more minutes than Miller and Foster last year and he didnt start, I hope the same thing happens with Freddie. He just needs the minutes to prove himself.

Now Bender. Bender is a great shooter and a good slasher, just lacks intensity and gets lost sometimes. He might be the most talented player in the league, he just has to get fired up. If he gets more minutes then I dont think he will be lost out there, its just a lack of playing time. I think we need to trade Harrington so Bender can get more minutes as the back up to Artest. We lack perimeter shooting and Bender is a good shooter, Harrington is more of a inside player and cant step back and drain a 3.

clownskull
07-05-2004, 01:31 AM
man, i wish bender would stay healthy. i am sooo sick and tired of his being injured all the farkin time.
yeh, he finally showed some promise in his 5th season. his 5th!!. this upcoming season is his season to show his goods. if he misses most of this season again, then i don't care about this guy anymore. this guy's body breaks more easily than glass fishing line. he damn well better play summer league and look good. by the time regular season starts, he better be ready to go or it's final in my book- total bust!!

Jose Slaughter
07-05-2004, 02:00 AM
I think Bender will revolutionize the injured reserve position.

Hicks
07-05-2004, 02:06 AM
I have to agree that this season is it for the Bender project. It's time for him to either make a noticable step forward, or to get out of the way.

able
07-05-2004, 04:35 AM
this season ?
more like this summercamp.

starting next week, he better show it, show that he's ready, otherwise I do think he'll be in the summersale.

so weird, so iditotic, but once in a while you have players who have more talent then most and just never develop into a player. how sad, let's hope he's not one of them.

Mourning
07-05-2004, 03:56 PM
I have to agree that this season is it for the Bender project. It's time for him to either make a noticable step forward, or to get out of the way.

Hey, I'm with you here Hicks. I also think people are sometimes beying unfairly harsh on him, just like a lot of people where on Smits when he came to indiana. A lot here keep repeating "5 years!!! 5 YEARS!!", but what they tend to not tell is that this kid got here at age 17. He's only now getting the build of a player with a little bulk,its not enough yet, but christ, its so EASY to burn someone into the ground like this. Sure Freddy is great and I love the way he plays, but how can you compare him with Bender? I dont see it, they are totally different players not too mention I think Freddie is actually older than Bender and has played in college where he obviously learned A LOT. Bender did not go to college (which he should have), but sat on our bench. That is quite a difference, I think.
I think he really should try to stay healthy this year and show a continuation of the progress he has shown us the last few months of the past season and I think he will be allright. IF that doesn't happen I think he will be trade bait next summer or before the trade deadline of february 2005.

Just my opinion though.

Regards,

Mourning:cool:

beast23
07-05-2004, 08:01 PM
I also think people are sometimes beying unfairly harsh on him... A lot here keep repeating "5 years!!! 5 YEARS!!", but what they tend to not tell is that this kid got here at age 17. He's only now getting the build of a player with a little bulk,its not enough yet, but christ, its so EASY to burn someone into the ground like this. Sure Freddy is great and I love the way he plays, but how can you compare him with Bender? I dont see it, they are totally different players not too mention I think Freddie is actually older than Bender and has played in college where he obviously learned A LOT. Bender did not go to college (which he should have), but sat on our bench. That is quite a difference, I think.
I think he really should try to stay healthy this year and show a continuation of the progress he has shown us the last few months of the past season and I think he will be allright. IF that doesn't happen I think he will be trade bait next summer or before the trade deadline of february 2005.

Just my opinion though.

Regards,

Mourning:cool:I don't know how you guys can keep using age and lack of college experience as an excuse.

When you make yourself eligible for the draft, you get drafted and then put on the uniform, a team expects to see some level of performance out of you. I will agree that when the team is dealing with an 18-year-old (not 17), they might grant a little more time for development.

But Bender played 4 years on a rookie contract at better than $2.5M per year, then played a 5th year at $5.8M or so per year, totally a $16M+ investment.

Freddie just completed his second year at an average less than $1.5M per year, for a total of less than $3M per year.

You tell me who appears to be more bang for the buck.

You are right about one thing. They ARE two different players.

Freddie can play SG and is learning to play PG.

Bender, as much as some would like to think, CANNOT play SG; as of right now cannot play PF; and is no better than 3rd on the depth chart at SF, wehre he is able to contribute offensively but oftentimes struggles defensively.

Whether you consider them comparable or not, because they sometimes compete for the same minutes on the floor, they beg to be compared.

But generally, I look at it this way. I don't really care what experience either player had before coming to this team. One player has two years of experience and is getting the job done. One player has 5 years of experience, is becoming costly and is struggling to get the job done.

As far as I'm concerned, it was time for Bender to crap or get off the pot even before he was signed to his second contract.

Whether you would agree or not, I would state that I find it very difficult for anyone to disagree with the opinion that Bender has significant improvement to make before he will be capable of consistently contributing to this team.

By the way. When I play craps, I rarely bet on the COME. I far more often bet on the PASS. I sure wished like hell Donnie would have PASSed on Bender.

beast23
07-06-2004, 12:17 PM
By the way. When I play craps, I rarely bet on the COME. I far more often bet on the PASS. I sure wished like hell Donnie would have PASSed on Bender.

Not often. Just too much work.... too much going on.

But you should see me at a blackjack table. A lot easier, and over time, much greater odds. If you know what you're doing.

Obviously, you don't play craps.;)