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pacergod2
04-01-2009, 10:55 AM
OK here is an awesome deal. There are talks that Jason Kidd will go to Cleveland in Free Agency this off-season. Dallas then will have a GLARING hole at PG. Jason Terry is more of a shooting guard than a PG. So, assuming Kidd bolts, we can trade TJ Ford back to Texas.

Dallas gets:

TJ Ford

Indiana gets:

Brandon Bass
Jerry Stackhouse

This would be a sign-and-trade deal where Dallas uses their Early Bird rights to sign Bass. This means that the first two years, he maxes his deal out at 5M per season. Then the third year he could get an infinite raise, which helps us because that would be after the 10-11 season and we have a ton of cap room. So his deal we would sign would be perfect for our cap situation. Now, Bass would be a BYC player because he is getting a raise of over 20% meaning that his value for a trade would be 2.5M based on his max salary of $5M. Well, since they have Stackhouse, who has an unguaranteed contract for next year, we would cut him and only have a cap hold and salary obligation of 2M. So in essence, we actually reduce our cap hit next year by 1.5M in this deal. (5M for Bass and 2M for Stack). The values for the trade would be 9.75M coming from Dallas and 8.5 from TJ's deal, which falls within the 125% rule. They get a starting PG, while we gt the strong defensive minded PF who can shoot that we are searching for.

spreedom
04-04-2009, 05:04 PM
I don't believe a player can be signed and traded along with another player -- this deal would probably have to be TJ for one of the two straight up.

MillerTime
04-05-2009, 01:40 AM
Stack is too injured and still has the remainder of next season on his contract. If this was a deal near the trade deadline in 2010 I would be for it, but I wouldnt want Stack in the beginning of the season and deal with his injuries. With all the swingmen we already have, we dont need him

wintermute
04-06-2009, 10:57 AM
I don't believe a player can be signed and traded along with another player -- this deal would probably have to be TJ for one of the two straight up.

i think this should be possible. for example, keith van horn sign and trade by dallas to include in the jason kidd package. perhaps you're thinking of a different rule.


Stack is too injured and still has the remainder of next season on his contract. If this was a deal near the trade deadline in 2010 I would be for it, but I wouldnt want Stack in the beginning of the season and deal with his injuries. With all the swingmen we already have, we dont need him

you might have misread pacergod2's post. stack is there as salary savings only - his salary next season is only partially guaranteed, so the team can save money by buying him out.

so essentially, it's ford for bass + some salary relief.



This would be a sign-and-trade deal where Dallas uses their Early Bird rights to sign Bass. This means that the first two years, he maxes his deal out at 5M per season. Then the third year he could get an infinite raise, which helps us because that would be after the 10-11 season and we have a ton of cap room. So his deal we would sign would be perfect for our cap situation. Now, Bass would be a BYC player because he is getting a raise of over 20% meaning that his value for a trade would be 2.5M based on his max salary of $5M. Well, since they have Stackhouse, who has an unguaranteed contract for next year, we would cut him and only have a cap hold and salary obligation of 2M. So in essence, we actually reduce our cap hit next year by 1.5M in this deal. (5M for Bass and 2M for Stack). The values for the trade would be 9.75M coming from Dallas and 8.5 from TJ's deal, which falls within the 125% rule. They get a starting PG, while we gt the strong defensive minded PF who can shoot that we are searching for.

i think you may have messed up how byc works. check larry coon's faq #73 for a detailed example. but that trade you suggested won't work, i think.

here's something much simpler - swap tj ford for stack. buy out stack. this lowers our payroll sufficiently that we can use the mle without going over the tax. offer $5m salary to brandon bass, as i doubt dallas will match it.

pacergod2
04-06-2009, 01:46 PM
Maybe I misunderstood the BYC rule. I did read it about 5 times when coming up with this trade and its not the most straight forward thing. I have his CBA page bookmarked, very nerdy of me I know. Where do you think that I am off on my BYC interpretation. Thanks for the backup on the others' comments as well.

wintermute
04-06-2009, 03:37 PM
here's the quote i was thinking about.



When comparing salaries for trade, teams use their own player's BYC value and the other player's full salary, even if the other player is also BYC. Here is a simple example -- two $5 million players, both of whom are re-signed (by teams over the cap) for $10 million. Both players become base year players whose base year amount is $5 million (50% of the new salary). If the teams want to trade these players for each other they compare their player's base year amount to the other player's full salary. So each team can take back a maximum of 125% plus $100,000 of their player's $5 million base year amount, or $6.35 million. They compare $6.35 million to the other player's full $10 million. $10 million is way too high, so this trade can't be done, even though the players' actual salaries match exactly.


larry coon's example is more complicated than the hypothetical one we're talking about, but it applies.

from dallas' point of view, they take the byc value of bass (2.5m) and add the full value for stackhouse (7m). that's ~9.5m, and taking back tj ford (8.5m). so far so good.

from indy's point of view though, they have to take the full value for bass (5m) and full value for stack too (7m). receiving 12m while sending out 8.5m - that's no good, because indy isn't below the cap.

byc trades are very tricky. one side sees half value, the other sees full value. but both sides need to be within 125%. in a larger deal, the byc amount can be "absorbed" in the 125%. another trick is to use trade exceptions creatively. for example, if indy has a 5m trade exception, the second part of the deal could work too (bass for exception, stack for ford).

i could be wrong, of course. but that's how i understand it.