PDA

View Full Version : Detroit is falling fast



stevo
03-25-2009, 10:38 PM
Detroit was 27-21 feb 7. They have now gone 7-15 and falling. Their remaining schedule is tough. Remember when Detroit never seemed to get hurt or have any injuries? Wow Iverson, Wallace and Hamiton all have been out the last few weeks. If there was ever a small crack for us to sneak into the playoffs who would have ever though Detroit would be the one handing it to us.
Chicago looks pretty good right now. They only have three away games left.
Come on guys.. we can do this.....

MillerTime
03-25-2009, 11:16 PM
right now Pistons are 7th in the East. If I were Orlando or Celtics, I would want to drop to the 3rd spot just so I wouldnt have to play the Pistons

PacersRule
03-25-2009, 11:19 PM
And may the Pacers replace them...

stevo
03-25-2009, 11:48 PM
7 of their next twelve are on the road. They have the Laker's tom at home without three of their starters. Then they still have road games at Cleveland, New Jersey, Philly, Washington, Knicks, Pacers and Heat. They probably wont be completely healthy for some of those games. Sorry Detroit fans, Your season and Dynasty is finally coming to an end.
And your coach Curry will probably be gone next year.

Anthem
03-25-2009, 11:54 PM
As I said in the magic number thread, it's still quite unlikely that we'll pass them. Even with tonight's leap forward, our magic number is 17 with 10 games remaining for us and 12 for them. They could lose 8 of 12 and we'd still have to win 9 of our 10 remaining in order to pass them.

stevo
03-26-2009, 12:07 AM
I guess my point was we have a better chance of over taking Detroit, then we do Chicago.
Chicago is playing well as of late and 1 of those two games we have with them is in Chicago. Chicago is playing like they deserve to be in the playoffs, Detroit on the other hand is in free fall. You mentioned they would have to loose 8 of 12. If my math is correct they are winning at lower percentage than that, over the past 22 games. We just have to take care of our business. In all reality I agree the odds are way against us. But keeping the Faith though

Anthem
03-26-2009, 02:09 AM
You mentioned they would have to loose 8 of 12. If my math is correct they are winning at lower percentage than that, over the past 22 games.
But we'd also have to win 9 of our last 10 games. Which seems rather unlikely.

Put it like this. They could lose 100% of their remaining games, and we'd still need to win half of our remaining games to pass them.

Bball
03-26-2009, 02:13 AM
But we'd also have to win 9 of our last 10 games. Which seems rather unlikely.

Put it like this. They could lose 100% of their remaining games, and we'd still need to win half of our remaining games to pass them.

I'd hope we win more than half our remaining games if we were to make the playoffs anyway. That unlikely scenario would be the ultimate example of backing into the playoffs.

clownskull
03-26-2009, 03:39 AM
But we'd also have to win 9 of our last 10 games. Which seems rather unlikely.

Put it like this. They could lose 100% of their remaining games, and we'd still need to win half of our remaining games to pass them.

yeh, VERY unlikely. this team hasn't won more than like 3-4 games in a row since reggie's last season. i find it next to immpossible to believe they are going to all of a sudden start doing something like that now.
sorry folks- don't want to be a negative but, i just don't see them doing it. not this year.

Kstat
03-26-2009, 06:02 AM
s. Sorry Detroit fans, Your season and Dynasty is finally coming to an end.
And your coach Curry will probably be gone next year.

...I'm supposed to feel sorry about this?

our "dynasty" ended the day we shipped out Chauncey Billups. We ended it by choice, instead of waiting for it to come to a slow end 2-3 years from now. It isn't like this is something we didn't see coming.

We were 10 games over .500 at one point and I siad we would finish below .500 and possibly miss the playoffs. This is no real shock to me.

Justin Tyme
03-26-2009, 06:41 AM
...I'm supposed to feel sorry about this?

our "dynasty" ended the day we shipped out Chauncey Billups. We ended it by choice, instead of waiting for it to come to a slow end 2-3 years from now. It isn't like this is something we didn't see coming.

We were 10 games over .500 at one point and I siad we would finish below .500 and possibly miss the playoffs. This is no real shock to me.


Yes, I remember that, and I though that was overboard pessimism at the time. Looks like you could be correct or real close to it.

Do you think there is an excellent chance Curry will be replaced by Dumars for next season? If so, I know of this coach who has this run n gun style game.:D

idioteque
03-26-2009, 09:35 AM
The Pistons, like the Pacers are in transitioning mode right now. Dumars usually knows what he's doing, they'll be back and pretty soon at that. Their transition is going to faster than ours since they don't have Murphy and Dunleavy's purgatory contracts.

DocHolliday
03-26-2009, 09:36 AM
...I'm supposed to feel sorry about this?

our "dynasty" ended the day we shipped out Chauncey Billups. We ended it by choice, instead of waiting for it to come to a slow end 2-3 years from now. It isn't like this is something we didn't see coming.

We were 10 games over .500 at one point and I siad we would finish below .500 and possibly miss the playoffs. This is no real shock to me.

No kidding. I haven't watched 1 full non-Pacers game all year and could tell when I heard this that it was exactly what you said it was. Bringing in Iverson was just a smoke screen for the common fan to keep them coming to the arena and sell some jerseys. Getting rid of Curry is a good thing, in the eyes of a Pistons fan. I highly recommend Jim O'Brien for the next coach of the Pistons.

stevo
03-26-2009, 10:32 AM
...I'm supposed to feel sorry about this?

our "dynasty" ended the day we shipped out Chauncey Billups. We ended it by choice, instead of waiting for it to come to a slow end 2-3 years from now. It isn't like this is something we didn't see coming.

We were 10 games over .500 at one point and I siad we would finish below .500 and possibly miss the playoffs. This is no real shock to me.

I never understood why they shipped Chauncey out. Was it money? or did they just believe he was on the backside of his career and not have much left in couple years? I didn't follow that story just curious.

ChicagoJ
03-26-2009, 10:33 AM
I really hope they fall out of the playoffs and stay out of the playoffs for a number of years. Probably won't happen - Dumars will probably learn from his mistakes. But I can still hope, can't I?

Although, if my choice is a decade of futility for the Pistons, or a decade of futility for the Celtics, the Celtics organization would still be my top choice for, "I hope you never have any success again." Not that the Lakers and Pistons are far off...

Anthem
03-26-2009, 10:34 AM
I never understood why they shipped Chauncey out. Was it money? or did they just believe he was on the backside of his career and not have much left in couple years? I didn't follow that story just curious.
They couldn't pass up the opportunity to get a dynamic scorer who can take over the game at any time.

duke dynamite
03-26-2009, 10:41 AM
I never understood why they shipped Chauncey out. Was it money? or did they just believe he was on the backside of his career and not have much left in couple years? I didn't follow that story just curious.


They couldn't pass up the opportunity to get a dynamic scorer who can take over the game at any time.
Chemistry. They needed to not only do what Anthem said, but they weren't going anywhere with that lineup. Iverson was supposed to change that dynamic fast, and hopefully get them over the hump.

Unfortunately for Detroit...EPIC FAIL.

stevo
03-26-2009, 10:50 AM
They couldn't pass up the opportunity to get a dynamic scorer who can take over the game at any time.

Just like Miami couldn't pass up the opportunity on a worn down low block shot blocker. I guess I am glad we are not in the business of making trades just to make trades. It rarely ever works out. Boston excluded.

Anthem
03-26-2009, 11:14 AM
This is fun reading. :devil:

http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/showthread.php?t=42190


Why would I be sick? We just acquired the guy with the 2nd-highest playoff scoring average of all time.

AI will sacrifice for a winner and play the point. He knows this is his last chance.


I'll repeat it...he averages 29ppg for his career in the playoffs.

Let Boston/Cleveland try and stop him, please.

Finally, we have a superstar to scare the **** out of the other contenders.


Also, to be fair, a lot of you thought the Sheed trade was going to destroy the Pistons too.

Kstat
03-26-2009, 12:21 PM
yeah, it was an experiment that so far hasn't worked out. I wish it had, but it was worth the risk.

Anthem being the master of hindsight, because you know nothing he's said has ever turned out wrong...

Trader Joe
03-26-2009, 07:34 PM
Where is my popcorn at anyways?

ChicagoJ
03-26-2009, 07:53 PM
:lurk: ??

Trophy
03-26-2009, 08:51 PM
They just need to redo their team and start fresh. Work around their young players with talent like Prince or Hamilton.

MrSparko
03-26-2009, 09:50 PM
Hate to go off on a little bit of a tangent, but I will be sitting front row at half court April 11th against the Pistons! I'm so excited considering Ive only sat in non-balcony level seats like 5 times combined. I'll be wearing my home Rush Jersey. :happydanc

Anthem
03-26-2009, 10:48 PM
Anthem being the master of hindsight, because you know nothing he's said has ever turned out wrong...
Hindsight? :laugh: Dude, everybody and their grandmother was saying "Wow, rough trade for Detroit. They're really screwing with their chemistry here." That wasn't hindsight, that was foresight.

I didn't bump the thread because you were wrong. I've been wrong about many things, and owned it (most recently Troy Murphy). I bumped the thread because of the hilarious way in which you talked so much smack about how the crazy Pacer fans thought it was a bad trade for Detroit when in fact Dumars came out way ahead on the deal.

Honestly, I still think it's a fine deal for Detroit, since Dumars' goal was never to win this year but to have financial flexibility, which he will have once AI walks this summer. But you could have gotten Raef LaFrentz for that.

Come on, man. Laugh a little. You can't talk that much smack and expect not to get called on it. We're still glad you're here.

:hug:

Naptown_Seth
03-27-2009, 02:14 AM
yeah, it was an experiment that so far hasn't worked out. I wish it had, but it was worth the risk.

Anthem being the master of hindsight, because you know nothing he's said has ever turned out wrong...
It's not that nearly as much as rather than owning up you come back at us with "it's all part of the plan".

It wasn't and the Pistons weren't done. Billups has the Nugs rolling just like Dre got the Sixers rolling. AI wrecks teams and the Pistons were the ultimate "team".

At the time I recall you talking up Stuckey getting the chance to rise to the top as he should and run the show too. It was all these great younger guys just waiting to step in.


Yes, AI can come off the books. But you know what, in a thin draft year the Pistons could have just kept Billups, gone the playoffs, lost in round 2, fired Curry and STILL TRADED BILLUPS then. Get that pick without losing your way into it, or trade Billups for a younger guy to build on. Heck, Monte Ellis or something.

Dumars drafted Darko, hired Curry and did this AI trade. He's not perfect. They struck lightening and misinterpreted it for all brilliant planning that could be duplicated at will.

As much as I hate the Pistons I liked what they were. They needed to tank and rebuild as much as the Spurs did. People keep throwing dirt on them and they just keep on coming back.

At one time the Pistons answered star power (Kobe/Shaq/Payton/Karl) with balanced team play. Where Joe went wrong was when he tried to meet it with his own star instead and chased after AI.

BTW, on the year when they get the start:

AI 22-28
Rip 23-18
Sheed 29-28
Billups 2-0

They went 4-0 or 5-1 after AI went out. Then Sheed got hurt, then Rip got hurt.

Big Smooth
03-27-2009, 02:46 AM
yeah, it was an experiment that so far hasn't worked out. I wish it had, but it was worth the risk.

Anthem being the master of hindsight, because you know nothing he's said has ever turned out wrong...

Most objective people had the FORESIGHT to see that trade was a train wreck in the making.

Kstat
03-27-2009, 04:18 AM
Most objective people had the FORESIGHT to see that trade was a train wreck in the making.

....and the trade was never made with the intention of winning a title this season. It was made with the intention of rebuilding and the hope of catching lightening in a bottle this year. Does not mean that it was a bad trade.

Kstat
03-27-2009, 04:24 AM
Yes, AI can come off the books. But you know what, in a thin draft year the Pistons could have just kept Billups, gone the playoffs, lost in round 2, fired Curry and STILL TRADED BILLUPS then. Get that pick without losing your way into it, or trade Billups for a younger guy to build on. Heck, Monte Ellis or something.

Uh, first of all there was no guarentee that anybody was going to take billups a year older for a quality player and expiring contract. We would also be in the 2010 offseason where we would not have the leverage we have now. So, you're wrong on both counts.

We have plenty of guards. We needed a big man and still do. Obviously none were out there for chauncey, or dumars would have gone that route.






At one time the Pistons answered star power (Kobe/Shaq/Payton/Karl) with balanced team play. Where Joe went wrong was when he tried to meet it with his own star instead and chased after AI.

...either you're blind or you have the memory of a goldfish. Either way I'm not going to bother to explain to you how we've consistently lost to the superstar system every year since 2004. Only a fool would keep that up with the exact same cast.

AI is an EXPIRING CONTRACT FIRST. Yes I was hopeful we ould have our cake and eat it to like we did in 2004, but we can't this time. Doesn't mean we can't still have the cake.

Yeah, Joe went wrong by breaking up an aging core that was only getting older and less valuable on the market. Shame on him for having some foresight instead of hindsight.


Dumars drafted Darko, hired Curry and did this AI trade. He's not perfect. They struck lightening and misinterpreted it for all brilliant planning that could be duplicated at will.

Again, you need your head examined if you think the AI trade was going to be made or broken by the pistons success in 2009. It wasn't meant for that. In your next essay try addressing that point with something that makes sense.

Peck
03-27-2009, 04:28 AM
My question to all of this is, what will happen to Iverson now?

I just don't see anyway in hell that he re-signs with the Pistons and frankly with his age, level of play and frankly his reputation I wonder what kind of contract the Answer is going to get himself this off season and where?

I can see no team paying him the money that he is making now, how much less is he willing to accept?

I'd love for Allen to be our ambassador to Europe and spread his special brand of team oriented pass first basketball to the Euro league.

Kstat
03-27-2009, 04:30 AM
book still has yet to be closed on AI for 2009, but he does have a lot of work to do in very short period of time.

MillerTime
03-27-2009, 05:13 AM
They've now fallen to 8th. If the playoffs were now, they would be playing the Cavs. That would be a nice matchup to watch.

Pistons can pull an upset if they can get healthy

Anthem
03-27-2009, 09:57 AM
Can AI get more than the MLE?

And would he play for that amount?

duke dynamite
03-27-2009, 10:01 AM
Can AI get more than the MLE?

And would he play for that amount?
MLE? You're talkin' MLE? I mean it's not like a max contract. It's just MLE.

MillerTime
03-27-2009, 10:03 AM
Can AI get more than the MLE?

And would he play for that amount?
I dont think he would accept the MLE. He would probably pull a Spreewell

Pointz
03-27-2009, 10:49 AM
I never understood why they shipped Chauncey out. Was it money? or did they just believe he was on the backside of his career and not have much left in couple years? I didn't follow that story just curious.

I read somewhere that Dumars wanted to free up some cap room and bring in some youth to ensure the Pistons would stay viable for the future. Not to mention Stuckey needed more playing time. It was a solid move management wise but it screwed up the Pistons chemistry as Chauncey was a team leader and AI is...not Chauncey. ;)

stevo
03-27-2009, 11:36 AM
....and the trade was never made with the intention of winning a title this season. It was made with the intention of rebuilding and the hope of catching lightening in a bottle this year. Does not mean that it was a bad trade.

My thing is I can understand Detroit wanting to make a trade. But Chauncey?? He was your team. He stuck so many big time daggers in us and others. He has the perfect combination of Defense and Offense. He would be the one to build a team around. Prince, Chauncey, Rip should have been untouchable. You keep those three together and put some nice young talent around them and your fighting for a 3 or 4 seed instead of going home. AI is a team killer. His attitude sucks and his shoot first personality needs a reality check. IT DOSN'T WORK! It never did. Defense wins Championships. ok im done venting. bring on the smack.

Kstat
03-27-2009, 12:12 PM
Chauncey also sucked *** in the playoffs each of the last 3 playoffs, which is something nobody ever wants to mention. He got torched by 3 different mediocre point guards in 3 different playoff elimination games.

Oh, and Chauncey's defense isn't very good. Love him as a game manager but please with the revisionist history.

dannygranger
03-27-2009, 12:13 PM
wasn't there a certain pistons fan who had AI as his avatar with "the answer is coming" lol

too funny

Trader Joe
03-27-2009, 12:15 PM
I think Iverson would sign for the MLE out in LaLa Land if they fail to win the championship this year. Now THAT would be interesting.

Pacersfan46
03-27-2009, 12:32 PM
If Iverson can't get a big contract, I expect to see him for cheap in Boston, Cleveland, Orlando or with Kobe.

Just a hunch. By the way, I do not think he'll get the big contract either. If nothing else signing for cheap with a championship contender would save face for him. He could play it off as though he WANTED to sign there and the contract didn't matter. Doesn't look as bad publicly as 'nobody wanted me, so *sigh* ... I ended up here'

-- Steve --

CableKC
03-27-2009, 03:20 PM
My question to all of this is, what will happen to Iverson now?

I just don't see anyway in hell that he re-signs with the Pistons and frankly with his age, level of play and frankly his reputation I wonder what kind of contract the Answer is going to get himself this off season and where?

I can see no team paying him the money that he is making now, how much less is he willing to accept?

I'd love for Allen to be our ambassador to Europe and spread his special brand of team oriented pass first basketball to the Euro league.
I think that Iverson will get a similiar but smaller contract offer then Marion.....more then the full MLE....but less then what Marion gets.

Unfortunately, for the Players....the truth is that unless you are the top FA in the 2009-2010 FA Market, you're not going to get a top-notch contract.

NuffSaid
03-27-2009, 08:31 PM
I case it hasn't been said, moving Billups was all financial. He was probably going to try his hand at free agency after this season, and would likely command tons - far more than Dumars wanted to pay. So, anticipating this, Dumars went out and got the best "recognizable" player he could find who could still spark interest and, as already been said, fill seats.

Now, it's true that the hope was AI would come in and play "unselfish" enough and provide quickness to their half-court offense and help keep that franchise moving forward. But he didn't. AI just isn't a set-offense kind of player. He's a creator whereas Rip, Sheed, Tayshaun and even McDyess are all set-office/half-court players. They've played that way for so long it's hard to believe they'd adapt to anything else fast enough. Hence, one reason coaches don't like mid-season trades.

After 10-games, I knew the Billups/AI trade just wasn't going to work. Don't be surprised if AI is gone over the summer. Moreover, I wouldn't be too surprised if Sheed and/or Rip wanted out as well.

Kstat
03-27-2009, 08:49 PM
Billups was signed through 2012. If he was an expiring contract, the pistons never would have moved him.

Sheed is expiring, and nobody wants him back anyway.

Rip can go to for all it's worth, but he's a Piston until Dumars finds good value for him and rip has said publicly he does not want out.

I want McDyess and Bynam back next year, but that's really it. Use the cap space on Boozer or Millsap, whichever Utah does not want. It also wouldn't kill me to see us take advantage of Washington's luxury tax situation and steal Caron Butler or their lottery pick from them for pennies on the dollar.

BobbyMac
03-27-2009, 08:58 PM
Why should I care what happens to the Pistons or to AI?

Kstat
03-27-2009, 09:05 PM
Then why are you in the thread?

Knucklehead Warrior
03-27-2009, 09:34 PM
Then why are you in the thread?

Maybe because he's a Pacer fan on a Pacer board.

Kstat
03-27-2009, 09:36 PM
Maybe because he's a Pacer fan on a Pacer board.

I didn't ask why he was on this board. I asked why he was in this thread, if he doesn't care so much.

BobbyMac
03-27-2009, 09:40 PM
I didn't ask why he was on this board. I asked why he was in this thread, if he doesn't care so much.

I was trying to see what this thread had to do with the Pacers...again, why should I care about what is happing to the Pistons or to AI??? I'm willing to bet there is a Pistons forum out there somewhere...Perhaps you need some help finding it?

Suaveness
03-27-2009, 09:46 PM
I was trying to see what this thread had to do with the Pacers...again, why should I care about what is happing to the Pistons or to AI??? I'm willing to bet there is a Pistons forum out there somewhere...Perhaps you need some help finding it?

If you don't care, don't post in here.

Kstat
03-27-2009, 10:02 PM
I was trying to see what this thread had to do with the Pacers...again, why should I care about what is happing to the Pistons or to AI??? I'm willing to bet there is a Pistons forum out there somewhere...Perhaps you need some help finding it?

Obviously someone here cares, since I didn't start this thread, and quite a number of pacer fans have voiced their opinions on the subject.

I'm willing to be there are a thousand other pacer-oriented threads here. Perhaps you need some help finding them? Or are you that important that every thread here needs your special approval?


If you don't care, don't post in here.

Exactly.

McKeyFan
03-27-2009, 10:32 PM
I was trying to see what this thread had to do with the Pacers...again, why should I care about what is happing to the Pistons or to AI??? I'm willing to bet there is a Pistons forum out there somewhere...Perhaps you need some help finding it?

If the Pistons keep dropping, this may have a whole lot to do with the Pacers.

P.S. Kstat has earned the right to start a Pistons thread once in a blue moon.

Kstat
03-27-2009, 10:35 PM
I haven't even started a Pistons thread in like 6 months.

And anytime I ever have, it was more a news bullitun than anything. Someone got traded, benched, fired, etc.

stevo
03-28-2009, 12:43 AM
I was trying to see what this thread had to do with the Pacers...again, why should I care about what is happing to the Pistons or to AI??? I'm willing to bet there is a Pistons forum out there somewhere...Perhaps you need some help finding it?

dude what is your problem?? All is welcome here. get over it.
please hit your previous page a couple times. I promise it will
take you to the first post that tells you what you need to know.