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Unclebuck
03-24-2009, 03:19 PM
The NBA allstar game will have to move to March evidently. I realize the NFL is popular enough to do whatever they want - but do they have to be such a bully. Should be interesting to see if the NBA trade deadline is moved back also - as the NBA usually gets a day or two of media attention then.

The NFL is looking to move their season back a few more weeks - it is already about 2 weeks later than it was just about 10 years ago, and now they are looking at moving back another 2 or three weeks so the Superbowl is mid to late February - which will mean the NBA Allstar game will have to be in early March - as it has to be at least two weeks after the SB because of the NFL Pro bowl. (unless the NBA moves it to a midweek thing) The NBA allstar game used to be the midpoint of the season.

Really though I don't care that much about the allstar game, but it just seems like the NFL more and more every year dominates the media later and later, cutting into the NBA coverage. The draft dwarfs the NBA playoffs for an entire weekend.

Here is the article.

http://usatoday.printthis.clickability.com/pt/cpt?action=cpt&title=Super+Bowl+on+Presidents+Day%3F+Longer+NFL+s eason+in+reach+-+USATODAY.com&expire=&urlID=34900284&fb=Y&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usatoday.com%2Fsports%2Ffootb all%2Fnfl%2F2009-03-23-expanded-schedule_N.htm&partnerID=1662


Super Bowl on Presidents Day? Longer NFL season in reach

By Jarrett Bell, USA TODAY


DANA POINT, Calif. — Talk about the Super Bowl as a national holiday.
How about as a lead-in to Presidents Day?

The prospect of extending the NFL's calendar and staging the league's signature event in the latter half of February is gaining momentum as team owners contemplate an expanded schedule with a typical end-game mission: More money.


NFL teams have played a 16-game regular-season schedule (with four preseason games) since 1978, but owners have their sights on either a 17- or 18-game regular season and a shorter preseason that could be implemented as early as 2011.

The additional games would be tacked on to the back end of the current calendar, which owners feel would create added value for their network TV contracts because like the Super Bowl, the conference title games would be played in February — a sweeps month that TV networks use to set advertising rates.

"If we're going to keep labor peace, we've got to grow and expand," said New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft, chairman of the league's broadcasting committee. Including the preseason, "we're going to play these games, anyway. How do we make them as meaningful as possible?"

At the moment, an expanded schedule is in the debate and analysis stage. It's possible league owners will vote on proposals at their next meetings in May. After that, it would likely become a key component in talks with the players union for a new labor deal. The league's existing collective bargaining agreement ends after the 2010 season. There's also the matter of defining the value of more games, as part of network TV contracts.

"It's dependent, by a large part," NFL commissioner Roger Goodell said, "on our relationship with our partners and the players."

Still, many owners seem to agree that the status quo of a 16-game regular season won't cut it.

Said Pittsburgh Steelers owner Dan Rooney, "I'm for 17 games, not 18. We need three preseason games."

Tweaking the schedule by altering the ratio of regular-season games and preseason games by just one game might cause a major adjustment in team operations.

"I'm in favor of it, but there are so many details to sort out," said Indianapolis Colts owner Jim Irsay.

A longer regular-season schedule would undoubtedly add value for fans who have grumbled about paying regular-season prices for preseason games as part of season-ticket plans. But an alteration might also increase injury risk for frontline players who might play sparingly during the preseason, but endure more wear-and-tear with an extra regular-season game.

Also, while owners have resisted increases to the 53-man roster, an expanded schedule could increase roster sizes in addition to bolstering the number of developmental players on practice squads.

"It might create 100 new jobs," Kraft said, pondering the notion of expanding the practice squads from six to eight or 10 players, but not necessarily the 53-man roster. "That will all be part of the discussion. This is part of our labor discussion."

Other attached issues:

•Imbalanced schedules. With a 17-game season, half of the league's teams would have nine home games, while the other half would have eight. That could wreak havoc on the competitive balance that has been a staple to help fuel playoff races.

•An expanded playoff field. To make the games at the end of the regular-season meaningful, the league would likely consider increasing the field of playoff qualifiers from 12 teams to 14.

"The biggest concern is that I've liked the way we've had the playoffs as a really elite thing to get in," said Irsay. "There are 32 teams, and only 12 get in, unlike the NBA and some other leagues where a lot of people get in. It will probably be hard to keep it that way when you're talking about more games at the end of the season. Do you want those games to mean something that you're adding at the end of the year?"

Atlanta Falcons president Rich McKay and Tennessee Titans coach Jeff Fisher, co-chairmen of the rule-making competition committee, didn't have to make concrete recommendations about an expanded schedule this time around.

But they know it's coming. After briefing the media Monday on rulebook changes for the coming season, Fisher was asked about the possibility of playing a 17- or 18-game season. He said he wondered how an altered schedule would affect how he uses players in preseason and training camp, not to mention designs for the entire offseason routine. McKay, meanwhile, figures there could be a need to address rules for injured reserve.

In recent years, the committee has studied formulas for re-seeding the playoffs. Soon, they will likely grapple with the notion of an expanded playoff field — rejected in the past by owners — as part of an expanded schedule.

"All of those issues will have to be discussed," McKay said. "When we went down that path before, there were a lot of traditionalists who didn't want to go from 12 to 14 (playoff teams). But that was with a 16-game schedule. It will be interesting to see where it goes."

travmil
03-24-2009, 03:23 PM
If the NBA wants to get what they want, they should focus on putting a better more popular product out. Right now, only the hardcore fans are watching, and even some of them are bailing. If they put up a show that more people cared about, they could increase their clout and dictate schedules too.

grace
03-24-2009, 03:25 PM
I don't know how they're going to get away with playing an odd number of games.

As far as the All Star game and the Pro Bowl are concerned you could probably play them the same game and no one would really care.

count55
03-24-2009, 03:27 PM
I don't know how they're going to get away with playing an odd number of games.

As far as the All Star game and the Pro Bowl are concerned you could probably play them the same game and no one would really care.


What's the problem with an odd number of games?

All that matters is that you have an even number of teams.

Unclebuck
03-24-2009, 03:28 PM
If the NBA wants to get what they want, they should focus on putting a better more popular product out. Right now, only the hardcore fans are watching, and even some of them are bailing. If they put up a show that more people cared about, they could increase their clout and dictate schedules too.

NBA TV ratings have gone up this season across the board on ESPN, ABC and TNT - so I don't know where you are coming up with your info.


Unrelated note - the NBA is kind enough to never schedule any games on the NCAA finals night

duke dynamite
03-24-2009, 03:32 PM
As a Colts fan, I would love to see the season last longer, just because we always seem to end ours earlier than anticipated.

I can see where you are coming from, Buck.

Since86
03-24-2009, 03:33 PM
Unrelated note - the NBA is kind enough to
never schedule any games on the NCAA finals night

Kind enough, or not stupid enough?

I don't think you can just mix the two.

clownskull
03-24-2009, 03:33 PM
i think kindness has less to do with it than common sense. they would get killed going up against march madness and they know it.

Naptown_Seth
03-24-2009, 03:48 PM
While on the other hand they'd beat the Pro Bowl heads up I think, so why not go for it. One more reason for everyone to have zero interest in the NFL's most boring game.


And in fact, why not just put the NBA AS game on the off weekend before the SB instead?

Basketball Fan
03-24-2009, 05:00 PM
NBA TV ratings have gone up this season across the board on ESPN, ABC and TNT - so I don't know where you are coming up with your info.





Yeah and it still doesn't matter the NBA is an afterthought compared to the NFL. The NFL people talk about all year round. Why do you think NFL Live is on all year but NBA Fastbreak and Baseball Live are only on during their respective seasons?

NFL puts out a great product(most of the time)

The NBA hasn't surpassed the NFL since Jordan was playing. Why do you think Stern is so desperate to try and recreate that with LeBron?

grace
03-24-2009, 05:36 PM
What's the problem with an odd number of games?


•Imbalanced schedules. With a 17-game season, half of the league's teams would have nine home games, while the other half would have eight. That could wreak havoc on the competitive balance that has been a staple to help fuel playoff races.

Of course they count the game in Europe as a "home game" for one team so I suppose they won't care about this either.

grace
03-24-2009, 05:44 PM
While on the other hand they'd beat the Pro Bowl heads up I think, so why not go for it. One more reason for everyone to have zero interest in the NFL's most boring game.

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/article/127648



Lakers-Cavs Rating On ABC Topped By NBC's Pro Bowl Coverage


Sunday afternoon's Lakers-Cavaliers matchup on ABC earned a 3.8 final Nielsen rating (6.1 million viewers), up 46.2% from a 2.6 rating for Lakers-Heat in the same time slot last year. Excluding Christmas Day games, Lakers-Cavaliers proved to be ABC's highest-rated and most-viewed regular-season game since the net reacquired NBA rights in '02. Also on Sunday, the NFL Pro Bowl on NBC earned a 5.4 final Nielsen rating (8.8 million viewers) from 4:30-8:00pm ET, down 14.3% from a 6.3 rating for the game last year on Fox (THE DAILY). USA TODAY's Michael Hiestand writes Sunday's Lakers-Cavaliers game "had everything going for it: ABC's marquee late-afternoon time slot and two of the game's biggest one-name players -- LeBron and Kobe." Hiestand notes the rating "didn't come very close" to matching NBC's rating for coverage of the Pro Bowl. Hiestand: "That suggests that the NFL, with its plan to move the Pro Bowl to the weekend before the Super Bowl next year rather than the anticlimactic week after, should assist this TV sports anomaly in continuing to be a meaningless exhibition that draws big-time ratings" (USA TODAY, 2/10).


In other words even though the Pro Bowl ratings were down it still did better than Kobe and LeBron.

count55
03-24-2009, 06:21 PM
Of course they count the game in Europe as a "home game" for one team so I suppose they won't care about this either.

Oh...OK...duh...my bad.

Slick Pinkham
03-24-2009, 06:55 PM
One correction, The NFL Pro Bowl is being moved to the weekend BEFORE the Super Bowl, at least next year on a trial basis, at the site of the Super Bowl. So the week after the Super Bowl might be free if the new date for the pro bowl works out.

Los Angeles
03-24-2009, 06:57 PM
I think a later All-Star game and break is a good idea for several reasons:

1) The players might have actually played well (or played at all) THAT YEAR, instead of getting voted in by previous years' performance.
2) The break comes later in the season, so playoff teams will get the rest they always complain about a little closer to the playoffs.
3) It brings a bigger media push AFTER football is all over, in a way anouncing to casual fans that there is still a major sport going on.
4) Possibly bigger ratings.

I like this very much, actually.

Los Angeles
03-24-2009, 06:59 PM
One correction, The NFL Pro Bowl is being moved to the weekend BEFORE the Super Bowl, at least next year on a trial basis, at the site of the Super Bowl. So the week after the Super Bowl might be free if the new date for the pro bowl works out.

I hadn't heard that. What an awful idea.

It seriously interferes with the schedules and priorities of players who are in both.

WOW - I'm dumbfounded.

Bball
03-24-2009, 07:14 PM
Unrelated note - the NBA is kind enough to never schedule any games on the NCAA finals night

Is this a tongue in cheek statement? If the NBA doesn't go up against the NCAA Finals it is because they would be killed and don't want to suffer the defeat, not anything to do with them being nice.

Methinks you weren't serious and were just trying to stir some people up... But then again you could be :alcohol:

;)

Bball
03-24-2009, 07:16 PM
I hadn't heard that. What an awful idea.

It seriously interferes with the schedules and priorities of players who are in both.

WOW - I'm dumbfounded.

I had heard it and I thought the same thing you are thinking. It's also not going to be in Hawaii either.

travmil
03-24-2009, 07:37 PM
Unrelated note - the NBA is kind enough to never schedule any games on the NCAA finals night

That has nothing to do with the NBA's "kindness" and everything to do with the fact that they would get killed if they tried to go up against that event. I looked at the ratings, and yes they are up, but barely, and a FAR cry from the numbers the NFL generated or even the numbers the NBA itself generated 10 years ago. The trend is nice, but the mountain is a big one.

Sorry, didn't see that my point got made for me by several posters.

Pacers
03-25-2009, 12:04 AM
I had heard it and I thought the same thing you are thinking. It's also not going to be in Hawaii either.

IIRC, the NFL backed off of this and said that the game would move back to after the SB and back to Hawaii after this season.

Slick Pinkham
03-25-2009, 12:39 AM
I don't think so:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80dbeb16&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

The move is because the pro bowl gets terrible ratings and it's a letdown after the Super Bowl. Having it the week before makes it part of the Super Bowl hype and gets people to come to the city early and have the week-long party atmosphere that they want. The pre-Super Bowl weekend is always a big bore.

Of course the players from the Super Bowl teams won't be there. The players may not like it, not getting the trip to Hawaii, but it will be in the reach of more fans to get there.

But if it doesn't work out next year, I guess Hawaii gets another shot since they forked over more money:
http://www.entrepreneur.com/localnews/1790981.html

Unclebuck
03-25-2009, 07:21 AM
Yeah and it still doesn't matter the NBA is an afterthought compared to the NFL. The NFL people talk about all year round. Why do you think NFL Live is on all year but NBA Fastbreak and Baseball Live are only on during their respective seasons?

NFL puts out a great product(most of the time)

The NBA hasn't surpassed the NFL since Jordan was playing. Why do you think Stern is so desperate to try and recreate that with LeBron?

First of all you must not have read my first post in this thread. And no the NBA has never ever been anywhere nearly as popular as the NFL even in the Jordan era.

You are missing my point - I am not nor ever will be arguing that the NBA is as popular as the NFL

Unclebuck
03-25-2009, 07:28 AM
Is this a tongue in cheek statement? If the NBA doesn't go up against the NCAA Finals it is because they would be killed and don't want to suffer the defeat, not anything to do with them being nice.

Methinks you weren't serious and were just trying to stir some people up... But then again you could be :alcohol:

;)

Little bit of both, little bit of both.

Although, the NBA does go against the final four and attendance is fine. Monday night isn't a TV night for the NBA (except for NBATV) fact is the NCAA isn't that popular in a lot of the bigger cities so I don't think having NBA games in LA, Houston, Dallas, Altanta, NY....would hurt attendance on that Monday night. I've heard David Stern discuss this that they have always decided to not have any games played that night.

Of course it would be stupid for ESPN or TNT to have games that night - but locally it wouldn't be a big deal. Locally - I don't mean Indianapolis - I mean in several of the bigger cities. Indianapolis is always one of the top 4 or 5 NCAA ratings even if a big ten team isn't in it. Not uncommon to get a 20 rating in Indy and a 2 rating in LA or San Fran

ABADays
03-25-2009, 07:38 AM
As a Colts fan, I would love to see the season last longer, just because we always seem to end ours earlier than anticipated.

I can see where you are coming from, Buck.

I'm not in favor of this. Two more regular season games and two less exhibition games. Not enough time to see what you got in the draft. Unless, they open camp a week earlier.

duke dynamite
03-25-2009, 08:26 AM
I'm not in favor of this. Two more regular season games and two less exhibition games. Not enough time to see what you got in the draft. Unless, they open camp a week earlier.
They would have to.

Knucklehead Warrior
03-25-2009, 09:28 AM
NBA is getting pushed around by the NFL again
Huh?
How about moving the NBA ASG back to the middle of the NBA season where it belongs?

grace
03-25-2009, 01:15 PM
Huh?
How about moving the NBA ASG back to the middle of the NBA season where it belongs?

That makes sense which means it won't happen.

OakMoses
03-25-2009, 02:02 PM
I love the NFL, but I think that adding games to the season is idiotic. Sure it'll generate more revenue, but it's also going to add another meaningless game onto the season for about 1/2 the teams. It may also cause more teams to head into the playoffs dealing with injuries.

Slick Pinkham
03-25-2009, 08:04 PM
I think the plan is to replace 2 of the 4 worthless preseason games with two games that count. Theoretically, the season would not have to be longer, with there still being 20 games played but with 18 of them now counting, not 16.

Bball
03-25-2009, 08:43 PM
I think the plan is to replace 2 of the 4 worthless preseason games with two games that count. Theoretically, the season would not have to be longer, with there still being 20 games played but with 18 of them now counting, not 16.


If that is the plan, don't forget that most teams don't take those games very seriously so they aren't quite the injury threat that they would be if they suddenly became 'real' games. Not only would all players be playing harder... but the game would be manned by starters getting the majority of the minutes. Which doesn't mean they get injured in those two extra games, but the cumulative effect can't be ignored once you get deep into the season.

I wonder if they'd consider an extra bye week for all of the teams to account for the longer schedule?

Anyway... I am against the change. Sure, in business you strike while the iron is hot but I believe a longer schedule is counter productive in the long term. I like each and every game usually being meaningful to at least one of the teams. And many times the games are meaningful on multiple levels (new players getting minutes, draft positioning, playoff push, coaching security or not, etc).

grace
03-26-2009, 01:08 PM
I wonder if they'd consider an extra bye week for all of the teams to account for the longer schedule?

They already tried that. I don't think anyone liked it.

Major Cold
03-26-2009, 02:44 PM
I believe that the NFL is going to regulate themselves out of their current stature. National Flag League is more like it.

Los Angeles
03-26-2009, 03:31 PM
I think the plan is to replace 2 of the 4 worthless preseason games with two games that count. Theoretically, the season would not have to be longer, with there still being 20 games played but with 18 of them now counting, not 16.

Of all of the major sports, Football is the only one that has a schedule that makes mathematical sense.

Mark this day on your calendars: you will rarely hear me compliment the worlds (otherwise) dumbest game.

count55
03-26-2009, 03:34 PM
Of all of the major sports, Football is the only one that has a schedule that makes mathematical sense.

Mark this day on your calendars: you will rarely hear me compliment the worlds (otherwise) dumbest game.

Wow...talk about off-topic...how did this get to be about curling?