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View Full Version : Post Game Thread 3/21 - Charlotte gets Jack-ed



count55
03-21-2009, 09:38 PM
Well, that was...fun

33-9 third quarter.

Jack scores 31...and didn't play in the fourth quarter.

Rush with another nice game, and a block that was perhaps the straw that broke the camel's back.

I tell ya what...that's a pretty good response from a team on the outs, on a 5-game losing streak, coming off a heartbreaking loss that involved a near-fight between their starting backcourt.

Very impressive, considering that they'd officially quit.

pwee31
03-21-2009, 09:39 PM
really nice to see the team come together and POUND the Bobcats on the road. BRAVO!

dal9
03-21-2009, 09:41 PM
STARTERS MIN FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A OREB DREB REB AST STL BLK TO PF +/- PTS
Troy Murphy, PF 30 4-8 2-5 4-4 0 4 4 1 0 1 1 2 +25 14
Danny Granger, SF 29 8-17 4-8 1-1 1 3 4 1 2 1 0 3 +26 21
Roy Hibbert, C 8 0-5 0-0 0-0 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 3 +6 0
Jarrett Jack, PG 32 13-14 1-2 4-4 0 6 6 2 2 1 1 1 +29 31
Brandon Rush, SG 39 7-14 0-4 1-2 0 5 5 1 1 2 1 2 +10 15



best line by pacer this year?

alamo1978
03-21-2009, 09:42 PM
JJ had something to prove. Anybody catch any quotes during postgame from Jack, Ford, or coach about the scenerio?

Pacers
03-21-2009, 09:43 PM
See. This could be productive. TJ hits game tying jumper last night; JJ slays some Bobcats tonight. Well done.

D-BONE
03-21-2009, 09:44 PM
Sublime!

When was the last time we saw a win of that magnitude vis a vis point differential?

CableKC
03-21-2009, 09:52 PM
Damn...I didn't konw that this game was on the Road....frakkin impressive. Too bad it came a little too late in the season.

BRushWithDeath
03-21-2009, 10:03 PM
Hibbert not getting in in the 4th is baffling to me but other than that there isn't anything to complain about.

duke dynamite
03-21-2009, 10:09 PM
Hibbert not getting in in the 4th is baffling to me but other than that there isn't anything to complain about.

Hibbert wasn't as effective tonight as he's been lately. I understand why he didn't get the PT you think he deserved.

BRushWithDeath
03-21-2009, 10:13 PM
Hibbert wasn't as effective tonight as he's been lately. I understand why he didn't get the PT you think he deserved.

He deserved it because he's a rookie who is assured of being here in the future, Rasho is old and will most assuredly be gone at the end of the year, and we were up by 30. He should have been in the game.

duke dynamite
03-21-2009, 11:09 PM
He deserved it because he's a rookie who is assured of being here in the future, Rasho is old and will most assuredly be gone at the end of the year, and we were up by 30. He should have been in the game.
Yeah...

I'm content with the PT he has been getting. If he gets a DNP-CD then we should be concerned.

Midcoasted
03-21-2009, 11:23 PM
Tonight we played the way I thought we were capable of all year. The down side is that we pretty much have to win every game and we still might not make the playoffs. The upside is that we have a lot of improvement going into next year. Keeping Jack over Quis is the only option in my mind.

I've got a feeling this year is going to leave me hanging in anticipation. We may get it going at the end and might not make it. Coming into next year though I think we will be a vastly improved team. If Bird pulls out another draft like he did last year the future is set in my mind.

spreedom
03-21-2009, 11:36 PM
I almost feel like we might need to make a Jack vs. Ford decision... any thoughts?

Hoop
03-21-2009, 11:57 PM
Sounds like we played great. I totally forgot about the game tonight.

First time I can ever remember forgetting a Pacer game was on.:duh:

Maybe they should pay me not to watch. :idea2:

Trader Joe
03-22-2009, 12:00 AM
I'm so upset we got this bum Brandon Rush in exchange for that superstar Jerryd Bayless.

Midcoasted
03-22-2009, 12:08 AM
I'm so upset we got this bum Brandon Rush in exchange for that superstar Jerryd Bayless.

LMFAO.

Rush is looking like the future out there. Him and Granger Jack Murphy and Hibbert? The sounds like the lineup that is the future for sure. Plus we still have rookies to draft this year? TJ, McRoberts, Foster, and Graham all seem to fit our team really well. Plus we have the best 3rd PG in the league in Diener. I just really like our odds next year if we can ad some length and athleticism through the draft.

ChicagoJ
03-22-2009, 12:24 AM
He deserved it because he's a rookie who is assured of being here in the future, Rasho is old and will most assuredly be gone at the end of the year, and we were up by 30. He should have been in the game.

Bingo. You had an opportunity here to let the rookie get minutes in a blowout win. That's so rare this season that International Wildlife Federation wondered if we should capture it and insert an ID chip in its paw to properly track it in the wild.

Unless you're suggesting that we've done such a good job developing Hibbert for next season that you're confident right now that he can lead us to the next year's playoffs as our starting C???

MrSparko
03-22-2009, 12:24 AM
Sounds like we played great. I totally forgot about the game tonight.

First time I can ever remember forgetting a Pacer game was on.:duh:

Maybe they should pay me not to watch. :idea2:

How dare you cheat the tax payers out of more money.

duke dynamite
03-22-2009, 12:30 AM
Unless you're suggesting that we've done such a good job developing Hibbert for next season that you're confident right now that he can lead us to the next year's playoffs as our starting C???
I never insinuated that. I just don't understand what the big deal is.

MrSparko
03-22-2009, 12:30 AM
Bingo. You had an opportunity here to let the rookie get minutes in a blowout win. That's so rare this season that International Wildlife Federation wondered if we should capture it and insert an ID chip in its paw to properly track it in the wild.

Unless you're suggesting that we've done such a good job developing Hibbert for next season that you're confident right now that he can lead us to the next year's playoffs as our starting C???

To be fair Hibbert certainly looks the least raw of the youths. At least McBob and Rush got plenty of minutes. I really am fully confident that Hibbert will make it in this league now.


He still should have had more minutes, but its nothing I'll complain too much about.

ChicagoJ
03-22-2009, 12:44 AM
I never insinuated that. I just don't understand what the big deal is.

Hibbert should be playing 28-32 minutes per game right now (unless he fouls out first). The team has nothing else to play for but next season, so it should be developing the guys that need to grow up and make major contributions next season. You do want to make the playoffs next season, don't you?

This season the playoffs were never realistic - our veterans aren't good enough and our young players need time to develop. Next year, our veterans still aren't good enough so you better hope the young guys are getting closer. And yes, I still classify Danny and Jack with the young players - the team HAS invested in them this season. But not enough to Brandon and Roy for my liking.

Lord Helmet
03-22-2009, 12:57 AM
This game put me in such a good mood.

I want to know exactly what Jack was talking about in the post-game, I only heard a little bit of it.

Can someone please explain?

duke dynamite
03-22-2009, 01:14 AM
Hibbert should be playing 28-32 minutes per game right now (unless he fouls out first). The team has nothing else to play for but next season, so it should be developing the guys that need to grow up and make major contributions next season. You do want to make the playoffs next season, don't you?

This season the playoffs were never realistic - our veterans aren't good enough and our young players need time to develop. Next year, our veterans still aren't good enough so you better hope the young guys are getting closer. And yes, I still classify Danny and Jack with the young players - the team HAS invested in them this season. But not enough to Brandon and Roy for my liking.
See, I know where you are coming from, but I think Hibbert is doing a great job of developing. Almost 8 minutes of PT does look slim, but he wasn't doing much out there.

Even though realistically it looks like we aren't going to make it, you still want to win games.

However...nevermind.

This is ultimately going to turn into a rotation arguement. I am going to try to avoid it.

CableKC
03-22-2009, 02:07 AM
We shot 52% from the field....on the road no less......this seems very uncharecteristic of this team.

Did we really shoot really well?

or

Did the Bobcats just play very poor defense?

I'm just trying to figure out why we did so well......it's unclear to me whether we did the same things as always and that although we won the game......was it because the Bobcats was sucking it up out there and that the only reason we won was because we caught them on the right night when they were flat-footed?

I don't mean to suggest that we didn't deserve to win the game.....it's just very uncharecteristic for the Pacers to dominate another team ( that has been doing very well lately ) after the 1st half and still pull out the win in such a convincing manner....most notably on the road. I'm trying to figure out if we won because of something that we changed and fixed or because it was simply because the "Basketball Gods" were smiling on us for a change and we won just based off of sheer luck.

Gyron
03-22-2009, 07:50 AM
I went ot the game tonight and had an absolute blast. The bobcats fans were giving me a bunch of crap all the way up until right after half time, then they all shut up lol.

Way too much fun. Much more than when I went last month and bobcats beat them and I heard about it all night.....

count55
03-22-2009, 09:51 AM
We shot 52% from the field....on the road no less......this seems very uncharecteristic of this team.

Did we really shoot really well?

or

Did the Bobcats just play very poor defense?

I'm just trying to figure out why we did so well......it's unclear to me whether we did the same things as always and that although we won the game......was it because the Bobcats was sucking it up out there and that the only reason we won was because we caught them on the right night when they were flat-footed?

I don't mean to suggest that we didn't deserve to win the game.....it's just very uncharecteristic for the Pacers to dominate another team ( that has been doing very well lately ) after the 1st half and still pull out the win in such a convincing manner....most notably on the road. I'm trying to figure out if we won because of something that we changed and fixed or because it was simply because the "Basketball Gods" were smiling on us for a change and we won just based off of sheer luck.

The Basketball Gods have to smile on pretty much any team in the NBA for them to get a 25-point win anywhere, let alone on the road. The Pacers played very well at both ends, and Charlotte just got out of sorts, particularly in the 3rd Quarter. The Pacers won because they played better. They had a little luck to win by 25.

count55
03-22-2009, 09:53 AM
I went ot the game tonight and had an absolute blast. The bobcats fans were giving me a bunch of crap all the way up until right after half time, then they all shut up lol.

Way too much fun. Much more than when I went last month and bobcats beat them and I heard about it all night.....

You weren't the guy in the Pacer Santa Hat that they kept showing dancing on the broadcast, were you?

PacersRule
03-22-2009, 10:16 AM
You weren't the guy in the Pacer Santa Hat that they kept showing dancing on the broadcast, were you?

Or were you the guy in the Reggie jersey?

Anthem
03-22-2009, 11:56 AM
This season the playoffs were never realistic - our veterans aren't good enough and our young players need time to develop.
I don't buy it. The 8th seed was wide-open... if we'd played less smallball and gotten the rookies PT earlier in the season, I think we'd have more wins right now, which would almost guarantee us that last playoff spot.

duke dynamite
03-22-2009, 12:52 PM
I don't buy it. The 8th seed was wide-open... if we'd played less smallball and gotten the rookies PT earlier in the season, I think we'd have more wins right now, which would almost guarantee us that last playoff spot.
+1

Justin Tyme
03-22-2009, 12:59 PM
I don't buy it. The 8th seed was wide-open... if we'd played less smallball and gotten the rookies PT earlier in the season, I think we'd have more wins right now, which would almost guarantee us that last playoff spot.



I believe your statement is very valid. I'd expand it by saying if "D" had been emphasized and played more in O'Brien's system this team would have more wins and would have made the playoffs with possibly better than an 8th seed.

Maybe the Pacers, due to their current pathetic record, will luck out in the draft, and get a good player or 2 so as to make this season more palatable.

Peck
03-22-2009, 01:23 PM
+1

So you are questioning O'Briens use of a smaller lineup and his player rotation? I was under the impression that you did not do this?

xtacy
03-22-2009, 01:49 PM
I don't buy it. The 8th seed was wide-open... if we'd played less smallball and gotten the rookies PT earlier in the season, I think we'd have more wins right now, which would almost guarantee us that last playoff spot.

summary of the season.

duke dynamite
03-22-2009, 01:55 PM
So you are questioning O'Briens use of a smaller lineup and his player rotation? I was under the impression that you did not do this?
No, I agreed with this:


I don't buy it. The 8th seed was wide-open...

Again, I should've been more clear. You all know I'm not the type to argue about rotations.

Hoop
03-22-2009, 02:53 PM
I don't buy it. The 8th seed was wide-open... if we'd played less smallball and gotten the rookies PT earlier in the season, I think we'd have more wins right now, which would almost guarantee us that last playoff spot.
:cheers:

Anthem
03-22-2009, 02:53 PM
And I really dislike sniping at the coach, and think a lot of the blame Obie's gotten is too much. But plenty of folks on the forum and in the state could tell you that Troy's best as a forward, not a center. Granger's a SF, not a PF. Guys who are 6'3" generally have better luck guarding PGs than SGs. In short, everything about smallball is conceding the floor to the other team and hoping not to get pummeled too badly.

You play small to keep from losing. You play big to win.

Peck
03-22-2009, 03:07 PM
And I really dislike sniping at the coach, and think a lot of the blame Obie's gotten is too much. But plenty of folks on the forum and in the state could tell you that Troy's best as a forward, not a center. Granger's a SF, not a PF. Guys who are 6'3" generally have better luck guarding PGs than SGs. In short, everything about smallball is conceding the floor to the other team and hoping not to get pummeled too badly.

You play small to keep from losing. You play big to win.

Truer words have never been spoken. (or typed in this case):)

Lord Helmet
03-22-2009, 03:55 PM
This game put me in such a good mood.

I want to know exactly what Jack was talking about in the post-game, I only heard a little bit of it.

Can someone please explain?
Guess no one knows, huh?

Hicks
03-22-2009, 03:56 PM
You play your best hand to win, small or big.

The Pacers' problem is they aren't that great either way.

count55
03-22-2009, 04:05 PM
Truer words have never been spoken. (or typed in this case):)

Well, until these:


You play your best hand to win, small or big.

The Pacers' problem is they aren't that great either way.

That was a short-lived record.

Bball
03-22-2009, 04:08 PM
All things being equal... I'll take the traditional lineup every time.

Gyron
03-22-2009, 04:54 PM
You weren't the guy in the Pacer Santa Hat that they kept showing dancing on the broadcast, were you?

Lol, None of the above, we were probably not on TV. We were in the lower bowl, but in the last row at the top of the lower section in corner so we probably weren't very visible to the cameras.

BlueNGold
03-22-2009, 05:16 PM
And I really dislike sniping at the coach, and think a lot of the blame Obie's gotten is too much. But plenty of folks on the forum and in the state could tell you that Troy's best as a forward, not a center. Granger's a SF, not a PF. Guys who are 6'3" generally have better luck guarding PGs than SGs. In short, everything about smallball is conceding the floor to the other team and hoping not to get pummeled too badly.

You play small to keep from losing. You play big to win.

Yes, small ball doesn't win in the NBA or any other basketball league for that matter. I don't think I could describe it better.

Now, there are some rare instances where small ball is your best shot, but usually not against the better teams...because small ball is a gimmick. Let's just say there's a reason basketball players are tall.

Only one thing I might change. I would say that Troy is best as a backup PF. Along with size, you need a good defense to win. While Troy does many things well, defense is something you want at the PF position. You want crunch time shooters who can get open for key shots at the G and SF position...and bigs who can defend the paint, dunk, block shots and rebound...and of course intimidate. That's the recipe' that wins in the NBA.

rexnom
03-22-2009, 06:25 PM
I think smallball is an effective temporary weapon...but it's not good long-term, that's for sure.

NuffSaid
03-22-2009, 06:37 PM
This game put me in such a good mood.

I want to know exactly what Jack was talking about in the post-game, I only heard a little bit of it.

Can someone please explain?
I don't know about post-game commentary by Jarod Jack, but maybe this article has alot to do with why JOB went with him over TJ at the Point.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20090321/SPORTS04/903210429/1088/SPORTS04

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=600 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>http://www.indystar.com/graphics/go4/printlogo.jpg

<!--PRINTER FRIENDLY ARTICLE-->March 21, 2009

Teammates Ford, Jack tangle, then benched

Starting guards have heated argument, are separated by teammates and coaches.

By Mike Wells
mike.wells@indystar.com

The Indiana Pacers, who have used strong team unity to get by during their trying season, finally cracked during their 94-92 loss to the Dallas Mavericks on Friday.

Starting guards T.J. Ford and Jarrett Jack had to be separated during a timeout with 6:22 left in the third quarter.

The arguing between the two started on the court and carried over to the bench in which Stephen Graham, Josh McRoberts and assistant coach Jay DeFruscio all went over to calm Jack down.
Jack was taken out the game and sent to the locker room by coach Jim O'Brien. Ford, too, was taken out, but he checked back in the game with 8:54 remaining in the fourth quarter.

"We had a situation where Jarrett and T.J. had a dispute on the court," O'Brien said. "I subbed for them and didn't want to carry it over. I asked Jarrett to take the rest of the night off. That was my decision."
O'Brien said Jack will be with the team for tonight's game at Charlotte.

Jack had already left the locker room by the time the media arrived after the game.

"I think it was the heat of the moment," Ford said. "At the end of the day you really don't want the fans to see that going on, especially during the game when you have kids. I want to apologize for my actions and what took place."

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Lord Helmet
03-22-2009, 06:58 PM
I don't know about post-game commentary by Jarod Jack, but maybe this article has alot to do with why JOB went with him over TJ at the Point.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20090321/SPORTS04/903210429/1088/SPORTS04

<table width="600" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td valign="top">http://www.indystar.com/graphics/go4/printlogo.jpg

<!--PRINTER FRIENDLY ARTICLE-->March 21, 2009

Teammates Ford, Jack tangle, then benched

Starting guards have heated argument, are separated by teammates and coaches.

By Mike Wells
mike.wells@indystar.com

The Indiana Pacers, who have used strong team unity to get by during their trying season, finally cracked during their 94-92 loss to the Dallas Mavericks on Friday.

Starting guards T.J. Ford and Jarrett Jack had to be separated during a timeout with 6:22 left in the third quarter.

The arguing between the two started on the court and carried over to the bench in which Stephen Graham, Josh McRoberts and assistant coach Jay DeFruscio all went over to calm Jack down.
Jack was taken out the game and sent to the locker room by coach Jim O'Brien. Ford, too, was taken out, but he checked back in the game with 8:54 remaining in the fourth quarter.

"We had a situation where Jarrett and T.J. had a dispute on the court," O'Brien said. "I subbed for them and didn't want to carry it over. I asked Jarrett to take the rest of the night off. That was my decision."
O'Brien said Jack will be with the team for tonight's game at Charlotte.

Jack had already left the locker room by the time the media arrived after the game.

"I think it was the heat of the moment," Ford said. "At the end of the day you really don't want the fans to see that going on, especially during the game when you have kids. I want to apologize for my actions and what took place."

</td></tr></tbody></table>
I just remember after the Charlotte game when Jack was interviewed he kept mentioning how the Pacers want to represent the state and organization well.

I thought he might have took a lilttle jab at TJ, but since I didn't hear all of what he said, I might have taken it out of context.

Shade
03-22-2009, 08:45 PM
This team infuriates me. I don't even know what to root for anymore.

McKeyFan
03-22-2009, 09:53 PM
We shot 52% from the field....on the road no less......this seems very uncharecteristic of this team.

Did we really shoot really well?

or

Did the Bobcats just play very poor defense?

I'm just trying to figure out why we did so well......it's unclear to me whether we did the same things as always and that although we won the game......was it because the Bobcats was sucking it up out there and that the only reason we won was because we caught them on the right night when they were flat-footed?

I don't mean to suggest that we didn't deserve to win the game.....it's just very uncharecteristic for the Pacers to dominate another team ( that has been doing very well lately ) after the 1st half and still pull out the win in such a convincing manner....most notably on the road. I'm trying to figure out if we won because of something that we changed and fixed or because it was simply because the "Basketball Gods" were smiling on us for a change and we won just based off of sheer luck.

I'd say the difference was Jack going 13-14.

I think TJ coming off the bench to spark the offense for the second unit might be a great strategy for next season.

ChicagoJ
03-22-2009, 10:18 PM
I don't buy it. The 8th seed was wide-open... if we'd played less smallball and gotten the rookies PT earlier in the season, I think we'd have more wins right now, which would almost guarantee us that last playoff spot.

Well... that was exactly my platform last summer... that our vets stunk so if we "win now" really was the priority then we needed to quickly get the rookies heaviliy invovled in the rotation so that they were ready to carry us THIS season.

It was clearl by 11/15 that O'Brien didn't and doesn't believe the rookies could get that done this season.

Since nobody in their right mind would believe in a roster dominated by Rasho, Daniels, Murphy, Foster, and Ford, the eighth seed was never within reach. Even in a pathetically bad East.

I was ready for a terrible November/ December that was an investment into the future. Instead we got a lousy but not terrible November/ December AND no chance at the playoffs this year.

Ooops.

JB24
03-22-2009, 10:53 PM
I'd say the difference was Jack going 13-14.

I think TJ coming off the bench to spark the offense for the second unit might be a great strategy for next season.

It would be, but that's not how TJ rolls. Toronto learned this last season, and so will we if this lineup change is permanent.

Difference is, i really don't think there's a market for TJ this offseason.

ReginaldWayne
03-22-2009, 11:07 PM
As a player, wouldn't you wonder and be curious how you can improve your style of play and what a coach/team is looking for in a point guard, if you are demoted for the back up pg on your 1st three consecutive teams?

ChicagoJ
03-22-2009, 11:38 PM
As a player, wouldn't you wonder and be curious how you can improve your style of play and what a coach/team is looking for in a point guard, if you are demoted for the back up pg on your 1st three consecutive teams?

Nah.... there's always somebody else to blame - the coach, fans, teammates, whatever. These guys have generally been told how great they are for their entire career. This can't be their fault, it must be somebody else's.