PDA

View Full Version : Just my personal opinion and observation



TMJ31
06-28-2004, 03:51 AM
Everyone involved with PD and the boards are awesome, and I appreciate the hard work and web site very very much.

However, I must say, I greatly prefer the old board. The new board does have some cool features, but there is just something about the layout that feels very cluttered to me.

One thing that was great about the previous PD board, it was very eye friendly and when viewing the main pacer forum page, scanning all new topics, etc. was a snap and it made the forum my absolute favorite place to frequent.

I cannot help but feel a bit out of the loop anytime I log onto this new board. The quick glance of new topics/newly replied topics does not have the same feel of the old board at all. Perhaps some of you have also noticed this and just not said anything, perhaps all of you love it. Either way is fine.

I am not posting this to upset or discredit anyones work, just simply posting it to clear the air on the issue IMHO.

Keep up the great work everyone however, this forum has been one more reason that its great to be a Pacers fan, and I am sure it will continue to be so, and if I can assist in any more ways, please let me know.

Thanks for listening :)

Kstat
06-28-2004, 03:56 AM
Resistance is futile.:borg: We will assimilate you into the collective.

Hoop
06-28-2004, 04:14 AM
I feel your pain buddy :cry:

able
06-28-2004, 04:46 AM
One of the "new" things this forum has is on the index page (main forum) at the bottom, it allows you to select things like "most active threads" and "new since last visit".

Also the "user" area allows you to personalize the board a great deal, I believe there will be "adepted" templates created so you can choose other "setups" and so on.

Looks are a personal thing. As far as I know there was already a "look overhaul" planned on the old board, and this is mostly the design they came up with.

It's hard to make it to everyone's taste, there are almost 500 members on this board.

Rest assured that in the coming month a lot of small additions will make this even more "awesome" then it already is and a lot of those add-ons are important as well.

Finally the added security is one of the most important considerations. Perl as opposed to php is a lot safer from hack attempts and other mishaps.

sometimes you pay a small price for something like that.

It is a few things that makes you experience what you do: the banner on top, which was not a part of the old site, the lining around the topics/forums, which was almost blended on the old board and they make up for the difference.
Again; this is a design decision taken to integrate the website, which was mostly ignored on the previous board into the forum where the designers hope it gets more attention this time.

Will Galen
06-28-2004, 02:48 PM
I prefer the old board too, for much the same reason, this board feels cluttered. My main objection is all the pictures in the signature and reading area. I wouldn't mind them if they just appeared once, but to me it's just clutter after having seen them a couple times.

However, I know this is a work in progress and I can live with it. I expect this board to soon have options where you can turn things like avatars and signatures off. The result, no clutter.

So, I would say just hang around and the options to unclutter your view will soon appear.

Hicks
06-28-2004, 03:07 PM
Will's exactly right, we're going to be adding the ability to ignore sigs and avatars again. :)

indygeezer
06-28-2004, 03:10 PM
Well I've thought it, but the PC side of me wouldn't allow me to say it. (no, I'm not a closet liberal!) I'm not fond of the mainpage, I find it more difficult to find threads, return to, andthen editing my posts is more difficult too, but hey...I really, really do appreciate the hard work everyone had to put in to make this go...so who am I to gripe? :devil:

Seriously tho...:bowdown::bowdown:

Hicks
06-28-2004, 03:14 PM
One other thing I will mention about the busy-ness, I felt similarly when I first tested these boards. It took me time to get used to it, and I'm still not quite as comfortable as I was on phpBB, but it is coming. You guys have only had 3 days to digest it a bit, I think you will get a better feel in a couple weeks.

Plus we'll do what we can to make it better than it is.

indygeezer
06-28-2004, 03:20 PM
I know you will...and yer right. Change is never as fun as hoped.

But we'll all be in the swing of it shortly, all it will take is one trade or signing to make us forget all about our petty differances.


:buddies:

zxc
06-28-2004, 03:36 PM
I feel the same way. I mean, this is alright but the whole switch just seemed unnesessary. Why mess with a good thing? This whole board system just seems too.. i dunno, clunky I guess. Definitely harder to keep track of posts and follow everything here. The whole slowness issue isn't helping either. If you had to make a change shoulda gone with vbulletin or something with a more simple look and feel like the old one. I dunno, guess I'll just hope it grows on me =\

Will Galen
06-28-2004, 03:42 PM
Again; this is a design decision taken to integrate the website, which was mostly ignored on the previous board into the forum where the designers hope it gets more attention this time.



Most of the designers and mods are interested in web design. I know they are trying hard, but most of us are here mainly for Pacer's talk and news.

For a long time the Star forum was perfect for me, it had the best and most knowledgeable Pacer's fans on the net. Then it started filling up with troll's and smack talkers, and nothing was done about them unless they got really obscene.

Then this place came along and it was moderated and it soon had the most knowledgeable Pacer's fans on the net. Why, because beside the Pacer's talk it was simple and user friendly.

The designers and mods are all guys that know a lot about the Internet, thus finding their way around is simple for them. However, newbies along with the older generation of Pacer fans are not computer and Internet literate. They get easily frustrated, and if things are not simple they go elsewhere. I know because I've always been a computer geek. I had the first computer game that came out called pong, a game much like ping pong. Thus I know what I'm doing. (Usually) :P However lately I am having more and more trouble with sites and instructions that are less than clear, and I no longer have the patience to put up with such. (That last wasn't a reference to this site)

Thus I think the default look of the digest should be uncluttered. The skilled Internet users would soon find the controls and change things to their liking, but the newbies and such would not be repelled.

I guess what I'm trying to say is this site should build carefully around their main draw, which is Pacer's talk and news, and not get to caught up in things most people would have no interest in. Everyone has heard the words, 'Keep it simple.' Well in this case the designers should, 'Make it simple.' That way people will appreciate the site and keep coming back.

AS IS THE GUYS ARE DOING GREAT! :applaud:

Will Galen
06-28-2004, 03:50 PM
I know you will...and yer right. :buddies:

I know you too Geezer. As for being right . . . yeah, most of the time, but that's just because I don't USUALLY post something I'm wrong about. :P

By the way, you should have capitalized the 'w' in Will. <giggle, giggle, snort>

bulletproof
06-28-2004, 03:52 PM
The aesthetics of the previous board with the innovations of this board would be ideal to me. Again, from a design standpoint, I find this board and little cold and busy.

able
06-28-2004, 04:12 PM
OK I will again emphasize some things about this board and the previous one.

Though this board is slightly slower at THIS moment in time it will be up to "normal" speed again soon, at the latest within one month.
Please do remember the number of times the database gave you an error on the previous board.
How easily we forget.

The main difference between THIS board and the previous outside of the technical merits, is the banner on top, which holds the entire site that used to be www.pacersdigest.com AND the forum in ONE page.
The additional amount of information at your fingertips is amazing, but it as a price in the sense that the banner is "visible" unlike the old board.
For the remainder the bars between and surrounding the threads are thick and dark, instead nearly invisible.
Those are design-decisions that will be reviewed at regular intervals no doubt. whether they will be change remains to be seen :D (not up to me thank God).

To say that it is harder to keep track of threads is nonsense, certainly if it is followed up by techno babble on going with vbulletin, another pay through the nose php package with all insecurities of php added to it.

FYI: 2 days ago a security leak for vbulleting was released, it is no yet patched.

With the "pressure" on this forum; 18 thousand posts in the month of June, a far more robust system is/was needed, this is the first enface change, the remainder will be done in the background to emerge with a board capable of doing 100 thousand posts a month without stressing a server to death.

At average there are 35 people online, taking the night into consideration that means that at peak times 70 PLUS users are online at the same time, most boards fould under that. The bigger the database becomes the harder it becomes to post, the slower it becomes, only solutions that allow Oracle or likewise dbase structures are capable of dealing with those at speed. php driven boards can not use oracle.

The many options you have to view the boards may be overwhelming, they are certainly superior to what was. You can subscribe to threads, find your own posts (all) with one click in the user area, you can go to the main view, but you can also elect to just look at what's new, what is most active and so on, options that were not included in the previous board.

If you don't like the design, that is sad, at least give it some time to grow on you and learn how to use the tech merits of the underlaying software, which has NOTHING to do with the design, which I happen to like, but that is personal opinion.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion but to post things like zxc did is unfounded and not appreciated by me.

Anyone having problems: there is a "help" button in the top bar, including a FAQ and there's a lot of people on this board capable of helping you with a lot of things.
asking has never cost anything on this board, so why would it now :)

Jose Slaughter
06-28-2004, 04:17 PM
I'm in agreement with what has been said.

BillS
06-28-2004, 04:19 PM
One thing that seems to make a huge difference in the look is that there is no white space border around the graphics by default. It makes the text all slam up against the graphics (avatars in particular) and look very crowded.

Putting some space between the avatars and the text would suddenly make things look a lot less squeezed.

Individuals could do this by having an avatar less than the max width, but it would be better if this was a general setting for the board.

BillS
06-28-2004, 04:24 PM
Another thing that affects the main topics page is that relevent info about whether someone has read a thread is spread to both the left and the right and also contains more data. In the old board, the flag for a thread with unread messages and the button to jump to the last unread were both on the left, meaning you often didn't have to scan the entire line to jump to the messages you have not read.

If I remember correctly, we also got very brief and compact info on when the last post was made on the main screen, with the name pretty highlighted but everything else fairly brief.

zxc
06-28-2004, 04:30 PM
Everyone is entitled to an opinion but to post things like zxc did is unfounded and not appreciated by me.

How is what I said unfounded? Was just saying that I personally find it harder to follow and keep track of things here. The options may be there, but it's like TMJ said in the first post about feeling out of the loop. Anyway, I've been to other boards with far more users then this that use those other systems you don't seem to be a fan of without all these problems. But whatever works for you I guess. Not trying to be offensive or anything here, I do appreciate all the work you guys are doing on this. Just seems like you guys might have rushed it a little and now we are gonna be going through a month or so of beta. But, no better time for it then the offseason I guess, right? :whoknows:

indygeezer
06-28-2004, 04:33 PM
I know you will...and yer right. Change is never as fun as hoped.

But we'll all be in the swing of it shortly, all it will take is one trade or signing to make us forget all about our petty differances.


:buddies:

Hicks
06-28-2004, 04:43 PM
Just give it time, guys. We're not done.

You're right, this being a "beta" is a good way to put it.

Problems will be addressed, and I'm gonna try to make a template that cuts down on the extras and looks more like the old board, to try to accomodate some of you. :)

Bball
06-28-2004, 04:54 PM
One thing I don't see is a way to jump around the forums in a click. IE: The old forum had the drop down menu that let me jump from the Politics brd to the Pacer brd in one click. I can only do that here by going back to the Main page and then selecting the forum...

Tho I could be missing something....

-Bball

Hicks
06-28-2004, 05:00 PM
Another thing that we will add. It's just gonna be a bit.

able
06-28-2004, 05:00 PM
One thing I don't see is a way to jump around the forums in a click. IE: The old forum had the drop down menu that let me jump from the Politics brd to the Pacer brd in one click. I can only do that here by going back to the Main page and then selecting the forum...

Tho I could be missing something....

-Bball
Nope you're not missing it, expect it soon to be added, it is on the list.

SoupIsGood
06-28-2004, 06:27 PM
I only have one complaint, and it is that this page seems to be a bit too wide for my screen, and I always ahve that annyoing scroll bar at the bottom of the screen. I know I could change my screen from 800 x 600, but that really makes everything in general hard to read.

ChicagoJ
06-28-2004, 06:39 PM
I'm very impressed with the new place and all, but it still doesn't feel like home. :(

sweabs
06-28-2004, 06:42 PM
I love the new board.

Hicks
06-28-2004, 06:45 PM
I don't know who put Who's Online at the bottom, but I think that clears things up a lot, actually.

TMJ31
06-28-2004, 06:49 PM
I don't know who put Who's Online at the bottom, but I think that clears things up a lot, actually.


Yes, this is a good first step. Having the whos online on top added alot of "busyness" and clutter. Plus, perhaps if it could NOT list all the anonymous ppl using IE6.0 over and over.. thats kinda silly... maybe it could jsut say "7 Visitors" or whatever.

Good move though putting it below

Hicks
06-28-2004, 06:54 PM
Actually, that's gonna change too. Able told me that it's going to change to something like for every type (IE5, IE6, Netscape), it will only list it once, and if two people us e the same browser, it will say something like IE6 x 3

bulletproof
06-28-2004, 07:23 PM
I don't know who put Who's Online at the bottom, but I think that clears things up a lot, actually.

It certainly does.

One thing I have to give you guys credit for is that you listen to input versus saying, "No, this is it. We wouldn't listen to your feedback if you were Charles S. Anderson himself."

I'm not a designer, but I work closely with them and it's an integral part of what I do. And it helps in my field to have a strong aesthetic sensibility. So take the following for what it's worth:

1.) The blue/gray undertone is a little cold and uninviting.

2.) The PD logo buttons beside the topics look a little muddled at that size.

3.) The all uppercase lettering for topic starters is a little horsey.


It's getting closer, guys. Good job.

Will Galen
06-28-2004, 07:29 PM
[quote=Hicks]

3.) The all uppercase lettering for topic starters is a little horsey.

You want to explain this one please?

Hicks
06-28-2004, 07:36 PM
3.) The all uppercase lettering for topic starters is a little horsey.

You want to explain this one please?

Yes, I wasn't sure what you meant by this either.

bulletproof
06-28-2004, 07:56 PM
3.) The all uppercase lettering for topic starters is a little horsey.

You want to explain this one please?

Yes, I wasn't sure what you meant by this either.


"Horsey" is a term used to describe type (or logos, etc.) that is too large or doesn't look balanced in relation to the space it's in.

Hicks
06-28-2004, 07:59 PM
I just swapped the blue-grays of each thread's post background and avatar/username background with the two colors that alternated as the post background on the old board.

I kind of like it, but the contrast may be too harsh.

Hoop
06-28-2004, 08:13 PM
Just in case you was wondering, I still hate it. I won't continue to ***** about it though, I guess I can learn to live with it ................eventually. :suicide:


I reserve the right to ***** alittle though. :devil:

bulletproof
06-28-2004, 08:15 PM
I just swapped the blue-grays of each thread's post background and avatar/username background with the two colors that alternated as the post background on the old board.

I kind of like it, but the contrast may be too harsh.

Did you think the contrast was too harsh on the previous board? I didn't. Just keep noodling with it for awhile. That's what I do until I can't look at something anymore.

Hicks
06-28-2004, 08:23 PM
What do you think of the change as of this typing? Which is the color change I mentioned just before.

MunciePacerBabe
06-29-2004, 01:41 AM
At least some of you are seeing the banner and using the emoticons....Hicks said they were working on that aspect of it, too. I like this board but it just doens't seem like home yet. I agree with most of you, however....what matters most is the discussion of our PACERS!

Will Galen
06-29-2004, 03:15 AM
What do you think of the change as of this typing? Which is the color change I mentioned just before.

I like it better, I think the other colors like the orange Mourning is using will show up better.

Anthem
06-29-2004, 03:31 AM
I'll stay out of it. Wouldn't want to pille on.

Let me know when you're done, Hicks. I'll save my complaints until then. :devil:

TheSauceMaster
06-29-2004, 03:53 AM
Okay , sorry I got alittle disturbed with some inaccurate information here , VB doesn't not have a secuirty flaw , the reported security flaw was for older versions of VB , which there has been new versions out to fix these for a good 2 months , the biggest problem is people don't upgrade.

Anyways , I really don't care for the new format myself and it's not cause I like VB or anything , I thought the other board was much more eye pleasing , crisp clean and easy to naviagate , I reallize why the changes were made for security reasons and maybe a few others , none of my bussiness really :laugh:

You could have did the same thing with the Navigation on any other board it just takes sometime. I am not bashing anyone so please dont get upset and I realize changes take time , so carry on gentleman.