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obnoxiousmodesty
03-17-2009, 09:41 AM
http://www.click2houston.com/sports/18948362/detail.html


Houston Rockets Player Shot

POSTED: Tuesday, March 17, 2009
UPDATED: 9:21 am CDT March 17, 2009


<!--startindex-->HOUSTON -- Houston Rockets (http://www.nba.com/rockets/index_main.html) forward Carl Landry (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/carl_landry/) has been shot, KPRC Local 2 reported. Team spokesman Nelson Luis said Landry, 25, suffered a flesh wound during a random shooting while getting fast food in Houston early Tuesday.

Officials said someone opened fire on Landry's vehicle, hitting it at least twice. One of the bullets wounded Landry in the lower leg, team officials said.

Team officials said Landry was treated and released from a hospital. Landry played with the Rockets in New Orleans on Monday.

He played 23 minutes and scored 12 points in the 95-84 victory.Officials have not said how the shooting will affect the rest of Landry's season.

Landry is in his second season with the Rockets and in the NBA. He has played in 64 games for the Rockets this season and averages 9.3 points per game. He played college ball at Purdue and Vincennes University.

duke dynamite
03-17-2009, 09:43 AM
Boy that sucks.

xtacy
03-17-2009, 10:13 AM
sucks for him and me too. it's like whoever i pick in fantasy league goes down.

Kid Minneapolis
03-17-2009, 10:22 AM
Man, raw deal...

Pacersfan46
03-17-2009, 10:28 AM
They say it's 'random', but they then say that they 'opened fire on Landry's vehicle' ....

If they were aiming at his vehicle, maybe it wasn't so random? I don't know. I personally do know you can be the target and get shot over doing nothing, so it's not impossible, but just saying that sounds weird.

-- Steve --

Naptown_Seth
03-17-2009, 10:29 AM
I used to live in Houston. I am not surprised.

count55
03-17-2009, 10:30 AM
They say it's 'random', but they then say that they 'opened fire on Landry's vehicle' ....

If they were aiming at his vehicle, maybe it wasn't so random? I don't know. I personally do know you can be the target and get shot over doing nothing, so it's not impossible, but just saying that sounds weird.

-- Steve --

I'm guessing it was a relatively nice vehicle, so they may have just been shooting at someone they thought had money.

Eindar
03-17-2009, 10:39 AM
Are we going to give Carl Landry the kid glove treatment on this? I know this is his first offense, but if Tinsley had been shot while ordering fast food, the floodgates would have opened and never closed.

Naptown_Seth
03-17-2009, 10:39 AM
BTW, it's just outside the 2nd ward which isn't all that hot, but also just 1 mile from Toyota and Minute Maid. This is about the same as getting shot if you came from the airport down Washington and got shot at that Speedway gas right before the zoo.

My guess is he was headed to Toyota to pick up some stuff, or he lives in a condo in the area, and just drives up surface roads from Hobby at least part of the way.

The lesson is next time fly into Bush Intercontinental I guess. At least Houston has some kick-*** medical facilities just southwest of where this happened.

OakMoses
03-17-2009, 10:46 AM
My guess is he was headed to Toyota to pick up some stuff, or he lives in a condo in the area, and just drives up surface roads from Hobby at least part of the way.


When they say 'early Tuesday', I'm assuming they mean like 1 or 2 a.m., after Monday night's game.

count55
03-17-2009, 10:58 AM
BTW, it's just outside the 2nd ward which isn't all that hot, but also just 1 mile from Toyota and Minute Maid. This is about the same as getting shot if you came from the airport down Washington and got shot at that Speedway gas right before the zoo.

My guess is he was headed to Toyota to pick up some stuff, or he lives in a condo in the area, and just drives up surface roads from Hobby at least part of the way.

The lesson is next time fly into Bush Intercontinental I guess. At least Houston has some kick-*** medical facilities just southwest of where this happened.

So, they fly in and out of Hobby?

naptownmenace
03-17-2009, 11:03 AM
I used to live in Houston. I am not surprised.

Several basketball players have been robbed/car jacked in Houston. IIRC, Jalen Rose was robbed of his bling in Houston, during his playing days with the Bulls.

count55
03-17-2009, 11:14 AM
Several basketball players have been robbed/car jacked in Houston. IIRC, Jalen Rose was robbed of his bling in Houston, during his playing days with the Bulls.

Well, I've been to Houston a lot, and there are problems, but nothing horribly out of whack with other big cities. Our plant was right across the street from Hobby, and the area was kind of ugly, but I've never had any troubles.

In fact, I've been/worked in Manhattan, Queens, Newark, Trenton, Oakland, Baltimore, Detroit, South Central LA (our plant was there), Houston, Chicago, and New Orleans on numerous occasions, yet still the only place than anyone ever even brandished a gun at me was on Raccoon Lake out near Rockville. (Crazy ***** even fired a couple of shots out into the middle of the Lake, "cuz yer swimmin' at my beach!")

El Pacero
03-17-2009, 11:17 AM
I feel bad for Landry and Houston, but I'll be the first to say it...

FINALLY IT WAS NOT ONE OF THE PACERS IN THE NEWS!

Keep it up Pacers, a whole season without any trouble would be a great first step to get over all that junk in the past. I'm proud of the way they have performed off-court this season.

ReginaldWayne
03-17-2009, 11:24 AM
He got rear-ended, got out to look at the damage, then got fired on.

Since86
03-17-2009, 11:28 AM
Are we going to give Carl Landry the kid glove treatment on this? I know this is his first offense, but if Tinsley had been shot while ordering fast food, the floodgates would have opened and never closed.

Can you REALLY not see the difference between Jamaal Tinsley and Carl Landry?

I havne't really followed him all that much, but I don't think I've heard his name in one other incident, let alone multiple.

If this was Rush, Hibbert, Diener, McRoberts, Foster, Murph, or anyother Pacer player that hasn't been in trouble before, then you would see the same reaction.

Peck
03-17-2009, 12:22 PM
Well, I've been to Houston a lot, and there are problems, but nothing horribly out of whack with other big cities. Our plant was right across the street from Hobby, and the area was kind of ugly, but I've never had any troubles.

In fact, I've been/worked in Manhattan, Queens, Newark, Trenton, Oakland, Baltimore, Detroit, South Central LA (our plant was there), Houston, Chicago, and New Orleans on numerous occasions, yet still the only place than anyone ever even brandished a gun at me was on Raccoon Lake out near Rockville. (Crazy ***** even fired a couple of shots out into the middle of the Lake, "cuz yer swimmin' at my beach!")

There are crazy things that happen at that Lake. I once saw Rik Smits water skiing on the lake there. That was very very very odd to see.

Not to mention one time I had a rather large Bass I had caught stolen from me by a racoon while I was fishing the shores.

count55
03-17-2009, 12:24 PM
There are crazy things that happen at that Lake. I once saw Rik Smits water skiing on the lake there. That was very very very odd to see.

Not to mention one time I had a rather large Bass I had caught stolen from me by a racoon while I was fishing the shores.

All things being equal, I think I would've preferred your experience to mine...either one.

CableKC
03-17-2009, 12:27 PM
Damn...that sucks.....this doesn't sound like he was out having a good time and then got himself into trouble.....it sounded like he was out getting some food and either was in the wrong place at the wrong time...or was ( somehow ) being followed/targeted for robberty.

Kuq_e_Zi91
03-17-2009, 12:27 PM
We've seen this go the other way too many times. Luckily, it was only a flesh wound and he's OK.

They say he'll be back on the court in 1-2 weeks.

pwee31
03-17-2009, 12:56 PM
Once again proving it's not the best idea for Pro athletes to be out at 4AM. Yeah I know there's plenty that go out that you don't hear about in the news, but it's still just a matter of time. These guys need to stay home, quit flaunting their money, or choose their clubbing locations wisely.

Not to many these altercations are mostly involving black athletes. It doesn't matter where you grew up, or how you were raised. You should've learned common sense in high school or college

Kraft
03-17-2009, 01:13 PM
FWIW, Carl's one of the most entertaining, genuinely nice guys I ever covered in my time in West Lafayette. Really a funny guy.

Sad to see this happen.

count55
03-17-2009, 01:14 PM
Once again proving it's not the best idea for Pro athletes to be out at 4AM. Yeah I know there's plenty that go out that you don't hear about in the news, but it's still just a matter of time. These guys need to stay home, quit flaunting their money, or choose their clubbing locations wisely.

Not to many these altercations are mostly involving black athletes. It doesn't matter where you grew up, or how you were raised. You should've learned common sense in high school or college

Well, it was 1:30 am on Tuesday morning, after the Rockets played NO in NO on Monday night. It certainly appears, as Seth suggested, that Landry was picking up some food on the way home from the airport.

What a show off.

:rolleyes:

Anthem
03-17-2009, 01:24 PM
Can you REALLY not see the difference between Jamaal Tinsley and Carl Landry?
I think he's being sarcastic.

dal9
03-17-2009, 01:40 PM
Not to many these altercations are mostly involving black athletes. It doesn't matter where you grew up, or how you were raised. You should've learned common sense in high school or college

???

pwee31
03-17-2009, 02:08 PM
Well, it was 1:30 am on Tuesday morning, after the Rockets played NO in NO on Monday night. It certainly appears, as Seth suggested, that Landry was picking up some food on the way home from the airport.

What a show off.

:rolleyes:


Sorry i must've misread the article on ESPn that said it happened at 4:20AM:rolleyes:

Anthem
03-17-2009, 02:18 PM
Sorry i must've misread the article on ESPn that said it happened at 4:20AM
Well that explains it. Just never believe anything you hear from ESPN and you'll be in better shape.

sloopjohnb
03-17-2009, 02:30 PM
Are we going to give Carl Landry the kid glove treatment on this? I know this is his first offense

Landry did nothing on the offense. He was shot. How is that an offense?

RWB
03-17-2009, 02:42 PM
There are crazy things that happen at that Lake. I once saw Rik Smits water skiing on the lake there. That was very very very odd to see.

Not to mention one time I had a rather large Bass I had caught stolen from me by a racoon while I was fishing the shores.


Maybe Smits was mooching off Billy Keller. I know BK has some property over there he uses alot during the summer months.

idioteque
03-17-2009, 02:49 PM
Well, it was 1:30 am on Tuesday morning, after the Rockets played NO in NO on Monday night. It certainly appears, as Seth suggested, that Landry was picking up some food on the way home from the airport.

What a show off.

:rolleyes:

Clearly flaunting his wealth by picking up a double gordita crunch. Or, maybe he's a dollar menuaire.

Some "haters" will do anything to get at someone who has any money at all. I was watching the People's Court or something once where this lady that obviously lived in the hood was talking about how people were keying up her Kia Rio just because it was a new car.

Kraft
03-17-2009, 03:37 PM
Looks like a more complete story.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6316071.html


Houston Rockets forward Carl Landry suffered a gunshot wound to his lower left leg early this morning in a possible drive-by shooting or failed robbery near downtown, police said.

Landry, 25, was released after treatment at Memorial Hermann-Texas Medical Center.

"We are very thankful and relieved that Carl’s injuries were relatively minor and that he is doing well," Rockets General Manager Daryl Morey said in a statement. "Carl was the victim of an apparent random act of violence early this morning after the team arrived from New Orleans. We are in the process of working with authorities to gather more information."

Morey called the leg injury a surface wound in Landry's left calf and said the player also suffered a dislocated finger on his left hand. He said Landry is expected to be able to play in one to three weeks.

The incident happened in the 2900 block of Leeland, a short distance southeast of downtown, about 2:30 a.m., Houston police said this afternoon. A preliminary report issued this morning had indicated that the shooting happened almost two hours later.

"Everyone is very happy Carl is OK," Morey said later today. "He came out of this with relatively minor injuries. From what we can understand, he was very lucky; obviously unlucky with the situation that happened to him, but he came out without anything major."

Landry and the rest of the Rockets had just returned from New Orleans after their 95-84 victory over the Hornets. The team's charter flight landed at Hobby Airport shortly after midnight, according to a team spokesman.

"Dr. (Tom) Clanton (the Rockets team physician) examined him early," Morey said. "I was in the hospital with Carl. It looks like a minor injury and he'll be out one to three weeks. Right now, we're focused on him and his family and the fact that he's OK; that's where our players' hearts are as well. I can't answer any detailed questions because it's an ongoing investigation."

According to Senior Officers D.W. Arnold and R.A. Moreno of the Houston police homicide division, Landry was driving southbound on Leeland with a female passenger when a gray Honda Civic, traveling northbound, swerved into Landry's lane and sideswiped his sport-utility vehicle.

Landry made a partial U-turn near Palmer Street and the Honda also turned around and again struck Landry's SUV, causing it to hit a wooden utility pole and stop, the officers said.

After Landry got out, two men got out of the Honda and one of them pulled a pistol from his back pocket and fired twice, police said. After being hit, Landry ran for help, they said.

The two men ran after Landry for a short distance before giving up and running away, police said. The woman in Landry's SUV was not injured, they said.

Landry described the attackers as Hispanic men in their early to mid-20s, about 5 feet 8 inches tall and weighing 150 to 160 pounds. They had short black hair and wore all-black clothing, he said.

Police asked that anyone with information about the men call the homicide division at 713-308-3974 or Crime Stoppers at 713-222-TIPS. All callers to Crime Stoppers remain anonymous.

"It's frightening for anybody. Everybody knows Carl and why the city loves him." Morey said. "He's a happy, upbeat guy. It was one of those situations where everyone takes stock. I think he's going to get through it because he's very positive, but I think he was very frightened."

Landry, in his second professional season with the Rockets, had played 23 minutes, totaling 12 points and six rebounds, and played a key role in the Rockets’ win at New Orleans. He is averaging 9.3 points and 5 rebounds this season.

Since86
03-17-2009, 03:41 PM
Damn, that's scary.

Thankfully he's okay, and no one was seriously injured or killed.

Pacersfan46
03-17-2009, 07:18 PM
Good God. Sounds eerily similar to what happened to me.

At least his injuries were minor. No major surgeries or months of recovery, or worse. This stupid type of **** will **** anyone off when you hear it .... but when you've been through it .... it adds a whole new level of pissed off. ****ing morons.

-- Steve --

Dece
03-17-2009, 11:58 PM
I just have to laugh watching the boards reaction to this happening to Landry vs. a very similar thing happening to Tinsley. Just laugh, and know better.

Some psycho's with guns ram into Landry, shoot at him, chase after him and you say aww, poor Landry, he's a good kid.

Some psycho's with guns threaten Tinsley (who leaves for home), chase after him, shoot at him, and you say "damn that Jamaal, always up to no good, he brought this on himself!"

So blatantly hypocritical.

Bball
03-18-2009, 01:55 AM
I just have to laugh watching the boards reaction to this happening to Landry vs. a very similar thing happening to Tinsley. Just laugh, and know better.

Some psycho's with guns ram into Landry, shoot at him, chase after him and you say aww, poor Landry, he's a good kid.

Some psycho's with guns threaten Tinsley (who leaves for home), chase after him, shoot at him, and you say "damn that Jamaal, always up to no good, he brought this on himself!"

So blatantly hypocritical.

It's all in the history. If Landry gets in a few more of these scrapes then people will probably start wondering what he did to cause it just as some do with Tinsley. There's nothing hypocritical about it. Tinsley used up his benefit of the doubt card a long time ago and him finding himself in a bad position was not out of character for him... unlike Landry.

Surely you can see the difference?

And nobody thinks it was good, fine, deserved, OK, acceptable or anything like that when Tinsley was shot at.... whatever the reason occurred.

Kraft
03-18-2009, 02:49 AM
I just have to laugh watching the boards reaction to this happening to Landry vs. a very similar thing happening to Tinsley. Just laugh, and know better.

Some psycho's with guns ram into Landry, shoot at him, chase after him and you say aww, poor Landry, he's a good kid.

Some psycho's with guns threaten Tinsley (who leaves for home), chase after him, shoot at him, and you say "damn that Jamaal, always up to no good, he brought this on himself!"

So blatantly hypocritical.

Everyone with any rational thought probably should just second bball's post on the matter.

But when some 'physchos with guns' chase Tinsley, a lot of people probably just assume it wasn't quite the same random act of violence that Landry's situation seems to be.

My guess is a good chunk of people figure Tinsley associated in some way or another with the shooters. Is that fair? Probably not. But Tinsley shouldn't have expected any fairness from the public at that point.

When a guy gets indicted on a felony charge of intimidation from a bar incident, and later on gets shot at after leaving a bar ... surprise, no one feels bad for him. Oh, and surprise, instead of staying in the hotel, Jamaal's buddies followed the shooters to return fire. That certainly didn't help the sympathy vote.

Now, to be fair, the charges against Tinsley were dropped. But no one knew that would happen when Jamaal was shot at. So to expect anyone to react with sympathy ... that's just not realistic.

Dece
03-18-2009, 04:46 AM
Jamaal Tinsley has an equal number of convictions as Carl Landry. Sorry that you guys think you are wise enough to deem who is guilty, and who isn't, who has criminal character, and who doesn't. I guess too many are unwilling to leave that up to the justice system. It's hypocritical whether you want to admit it or not.

Basically your argument is, "the court of public opinion has found Jamaal guilty, therefor he brought it on himself, while the court of public opinion has nothing on Landry (yet but we might turn on him later)" Sorry, I don't play judge, and decide who's guilty or innocent on my own. Perhaps some of you should look into doing that yourselves. As I usually say regarding these things, get back to me when a court of law finds Jamaal guilty of something.

Also, your comment that no one finding it fine, good, or acceptable when Jamaal was shot at... yea, maybe you should go reread those threads, because I disagree.

Anyway, I wish Landry a speedy recovery.

Anthem
03-18-2009, 07:22 AM
I felt the same way about Jamaal as I do about Landry.

Pacersfan46
03-18-2009, 07:29 AM
.Basically your argument is, "the court of public opinion has found Jamaal guilty, therefor he brought it on himself, while the court of public opinion has nothing on Landry (yet but we might turn on him later)"

Actually the argument is ... "when you're around something like this multiple times, one has to wonder what that person is doing to cause it." To be honest, there isn't a real good counter argument either.

I was one defending Tinsley to an extent last time. It didn't look like it was his fault, but at a point you can't keep allowing yourself to be involved in these situations.

That said, it isn't smart for Tinsley to be hanging out in clubs with hood rats. I guess since the situations are so equal, Landry shouldn't be driving down the street .... that's not smart, right? :laugh:

-- Steve --

Eindar
03-18-2009, 07:30 AM
Landry did nothing on the offense. He was shot. How is that an offense?

The Landry shooting and the Tinsley/Conrad shooting were almost identical in their circumstances. Yet Tinsley was skewered on this board. Again, that was the 2nd or 3rd incident he had been in, vs. first time for Landry, so a small difference in treatment is understood.

However, can we remember the reaction when Shawne Williams' was pulled over and they found pot and a gun in his car? That was his first incident, and people were ready to ride him out of town on a rail. Again, there is a difference, as obviously Williams was hanging out with the wrong people, and we've seen the results of that, but I still feel like Landry is getting preferential treatment here because he went to Purdue and plays for Houston.

If he was a Pacers player and had played outside of Indiana for college, I'm willing to bet the reaction would have been a fair bit stronger.

BillS
03-18-2009, 08:23 AM
Tinsley's party shot back. Landry didn't.

Naptown_Seth
03-18-2009, 09:42 AM
Well, it was 1:30 am on Tuesday morning, after the Rockets played NO in NO on Monday night. It certainly appears, as Seth suggested, that Landry was picking up some food on the way home from the airport.

What a show off.

:rolleyes:
The fact that you even had to explain this just shows how unreasonably biased some of the fan base has become against pro-NBA guys.

Cripes, imagine if back in HS if I'd been shot on the way home after closing at Hardees on a Sunday night around midnight. On here 10 people would want to know what I'd been up to at that hour on a school night and what drugs I was on that had me wearing brown and orange.




Frankly I often asked myself those same questions.

Naptown_Seth
03-18-2009, 09:52 AM
When they say 'early Tuesday', I'm assuming they mean like 1 or 2 a.m., after Monday night's game.
The path from Hobby (SW side of town) to downtown where Toyota Center is goes right through where he was shot basically. That's what I meant. It's possible he stopped at the arena to get stuff, get clothes, meet the trainer, etc as many players do (it's basically their office) and then drove to Hobby from there on their way out. That would mean he'd get off the plane and head to the arena before heading on home when they returned.

Naptown_Seth
03-18-2009, 10:06 AM
So, they fly in and out of Hobby?
According to the story. And sorry, I didn't explain back then that the first thing I did was go to the Chronicle to get a more detailed story to find out exactly where he was. I had to google Leeland because it's been too long.

It's a Southwest Airlines hub (not sure if that has any impact), about 20 miles closer to NO on that side of town, and was closer to the Summit. Not sure how much closer to downtown/Toyota it is, seems 50-50 to me. It's a much easier airport to get in and out of, closer to the size of Indy's old airport so maybe it's just that fact that has them flying to/from there.

Maybe it varies on destination for them? Maybe it's cheaper to park a team plane there?


Our plant was right across the street from Hobby, and the area was kind of ugly, but I've never had any troubles.Hobby area is fine. But 5-10 miles toward town when you pass through the wards is a different story.

Think about Chicago and the area right next to Comisky and the University. Things can get rough in a hurry and you can go from a good area to a bad one quickly. I got lost in the wards one time after leaving the Rice area, confused by thinking the Med Center buildings were downtown. (sadly the MedCenter is bigger than d'town Indy, as is the Galleria area, let alone d'town).

BTW, the arena area and MM Park are part of the revitalization effort to fix downtown proper, but it's been a lot of work and doesn't stretch too far east of there. Now go west and you have a lot of very nice areas including some of the uber wealthy sections.

Thus no airport on that side of town. ;)

count55
03-18-2009, 10:09 AM
According to the story.

It's a Southwest Airlines hub (not sure if that has any impact), about 20 miles closer to NO on that side of town, and was closer to the Summit. Not sure how much closer to downtown/Toyota it is, seems 50-50 to me. It's a much easier airport to get in and out of, closer to the size of Indy's old airport so maybe it's just that fact that has them flying to/from there.

Maybe it varies on destination for them? Maybe it's cheaper to park a team plane there?

I wouldn't be surprised if that's where the charters go in and out of.

ChicagoJ
03-18-2009, 10:39 AM
The charters rarely use the "main" airport... they often use executive airports if they are closer to either the arena or the players homes.

count55
03-18-2009, 10:43 AM
The charters rarely use the "main" airport... they often use executive airports if they are closer to either the arena or the players homes.

Hobby isn't the main airport in Houston, Bush is. The Pacers always used an offshoot right next to the airport.

The news reports are saying that the Houston Rockets' "charter flight" landed at Hobby, so...

:shrug:

Since86
03-18-2009, 11:56 AM
The Landry shooting and the Tinsley/Conrad shooting were almost identical in their circumstances. Yet Tinsley was skewered on this board. Again, that was the 2nd or 3rd incident he had been in, vs. first time for Landry, so a small difference in treatment is understood.

However, can we remember the reaction when Shawne Williams' was pulled over and they found pot and a gun in his car? That was his first incident, and people were ready to ride him out of town on a rail. Again, there is a difference, as obviously Williams was hanging out with the wrong people, and we've seen the results of that, but I still feel like Landry is getting preferential treatment here because he went to Purdue and plays for Houston.

If he was a Pacers player and had played outside of Indiana for college, I'm willing to bet the reaction would have been a fair bit stronger.

Simply put? No.

Landry gets the benefit of the doubt because of the already stated no incidents, and not because he's a PU grad, but because he's not on a team that's full of problems.

When you have 3other players that are in the papers for the wrong reasons, and a 4th pops up, your patience gets pretty thin.

The reaction the first time is understanding. The umpteenth time pisses you off.

Shawne's reaction was "Here we go again. Let's nip the problem in the bud before it blossoms again."

Besides that. Getting shot at, and getting found with a gun and pot in your car are hardly comparable.

Innocent people get shot at every day in this country. Innocent people aren't found with stolen handguns and drugs.

Pacersfan46
03-18-2009, 12:02 PM
The Landry shooting and the Tinsley/Conrad shooting were almost identical in their circumstances.

Quoted for falseness.

Couldn't be further from the truth. Since when is being a millionaire and hanging in a club with hood rats, the same as driving down the street?

One is asking for trouble, the other isn't. One involves less than stellar decision making, the other doesn't. Not getting the connection here.

-- Steve --

Kuq_e_Zi91
03-18-2009, 12:16 PM
Quoted for falseness.

Couldn't be further from the truth. Since when is being a millionaire and hanging in a club with hood rats, the same as driving down the street?

One is asking for trouble, the other isn't. One involves less than stellar decision making, the other doesn't. Not getting the connection here.

-- Steve --

Wasn't Jamaal accompanied by his brother and the Pacers trainer? These are your "hood rats"? I believe Jamaal was driving down the street, similar to what Landry was doing when he got shot at, not when he was "hanging in a club with hood rats".

Unless it's his fault for having money and being a target, I fail to see how driving down the street is asking for trouble.

The difference I see is, Jamaal's brother fired back while Landry ran away. Maybe this is what makes Jamaal a "thug" and Landry an innocent bystander.

Pacersfan46
03-18-2009, 12:18 PM
Wasn't Jamaal accompanied by his brother and the Pacers trainer? These are your "hood rats"? I believe Jamaal was driving down the street, similar to what Landry was doing when he got shot at, not when he was "hanging in a club with hood rats".

Unless it's his fault for having money and being a target, I fail to see how driving down the street is asking for trouble.

The difference I see is, Jamaal's brother fired back while Landry ran away. Maybe this is what makes Jamaal a "thug" and Landry an innocent bystander.

Jamaal was followed from the club, if I recall correctly. Those would be the hood rats.

**Edit** Double checked, and I'm correct. He was followed from Cloud 9 on the West side. There are your hood rats. ;)

-- Steve --

MagicRat
03-18-2009, 12:29 PM
Jamaal was followed from the club, if I recall correctly. Those would be the hood rats.

**Edit** Double checked, and I'm correct. He was followed from Cloud 9 on the West side. There are your hood rats. ;)

-- Steve --

I thought the issue was that Jamaal didn't want to hang with the "hood rats" and they took offense?

In any event, Jamaal would've been deep-fried for 6 or 7 pages after the initial report of "stopping for fast food"......

Pacersfan46
03-18-2009, 12:32 PM
I thought the issue was that Jamaal didn't want to hang with the "hood rats" and they took offense?

In any event, Jamaal would've been deep-fried for 6 or 7 pages after the initial report of "stopping for fast food"......

If you didn't want to hang out with them .... then why go TO their hang out spots? That's the part I have an issue with to begin with. It's a bad place for me to be, and I don't stand out like he does driving around his Rolls. Should be pretty obvious to anyone with half a brain that's a place he shouldn't be.

-- Steve --

Since86
03-18-2009, 12:35 PM
The difference I see is, Jamaal's brother fired back while Landry ran away. Maybe this is what makes Jamaal a "thug" and Landry an innocent bystander.

Wow, progress is being made. You can't go on a high speed chase shooting at someone through a city. That's dumb. It puts a lot of people at risk. That's how innocent bystanders get shot, because of stupid reactions.

Add in the fact that it wasn't Jamaal's first run in at a club. He has a history of getting into fights while being out at night.

Look at the whole body of work, don't just pick and pull things out.


If you didn't want to hang out with them .... then why go TO their hang out spots? That's the part I have an issue with to begin with. It's a bad place for me to be, and I don't stand out like he does driving around his Rolls. Should be pretty obvious to anyone with half a brain that's a place he shouldn't be.

-- Steve --

Exactly.

pizza guy
03-18-2009, 01:07 PM
Glad to hear Landry's doing well and it wasn't anything serious, as that sort of thing can often turn very, very ugly.

The part I thought was cynically humorous was that Landry got shot in the leg, then ran, but the perps still couldn't keep up. Guess it pays to be in shape...or be a freak athlete cuz I guarantee if I were in good shape, Landry would still out run me.

As far as Tinsley vs. Landry, I don't believe there's any comparison here at all. Grabbing a bite to eat on the way home after a game vs. hittin a club, packin heat, and all the priors. I can't believe anyone can actually think they belong in the same boat.

--pizza

Kraft
03-18-2009, 01:21 PM
Running on a previously torn ACL, too. And then shot. And he's 6-7.

Wonders of adrenaline. The human body is remarkably resilient.

Dr. Goldfoot
03-18-2009, 01:43 PM
First of all, that sucks he got shot. As far as I know, Landry's a good kid.

More importantly, I wanted to remind everyone different strokes for different folks. Let's not start labeling certain establishments/areas of town if you don't know what you're talking about.

Anthem
03-18-2009, 02:37 PM
Couldn't be further from the truth. Since when is being a millionaire and hanging in a club with hood rats, the same as driving down the street?
Jamaal wasn't at some crazy club the night he was carjacked... he was at a legit restaurant that happens to be open past 8pm.

Anthem
03-18-2009, 02:38 PM
In any event, Jamaal would've been deep-fried for 6 or 7 pages after the initial report of "stopping for fast food"......
:laugh: Yeah, I was surprised nobody went for that either. I was sure there would be a "chicken fingers" joke in there somewhere.

Eindar
03-18-2009, 02:40 PM
Glad to hear Landry's doing well and it wasn't anything serious, as that sort of thing can often turn very, very ugly.

The part I thought was cynically humorous was that Landry got shot in the leg, then ran, but the perps still couldn't keep up. Guess it pays to be in shape...or be a freak athlete cuz I guarantee if I were in good shape, Landry would still out run me.

As far as Tinsley vs. Landry, I don't believe there's any comparison here at all. Grabbing a bite to eat on the way home after a game vs. hittin a club, packin heat, and all the priors. I can't believe anyone can actually think they belong in the same boat.

--pizza

Please list Jamaal's "priors". If you're talking about "incidents", then fine, but if you're indicating convictions, Jamaal doesn't have any, as far as I recall.

Also, in comparing the two incidents, we're now trying to condemn Jamaal Tinsley because it's unsafe to be wealthy in our city? Jamaal was attacked for the same reason Landry was: because he appeared to have money, and the attackers were either jealous or wanted to take that money. Other circumstances are extraneous.

And as MR said, if we swapped Landry with Tinsley, he'd not only be crucified for being shot, we'd go nuts about him getting fast food after midnight. Why haven't we, even once, questioned a professional athlete who makes millions of dollars eating junk food late at night? Isn't this the very definition of being in a place you weren't supposed to be?

To clarify, I understand the small differences in these situations, but I'm partially playing devil's advocate, and partially confused by the large, large difference in reaction when compared to the small difference in circumstances.

Since86
03-18-2009, 03:33 PM
There isn't anything small about the differences.

All situations are evaluated independently, as they should be. A person with no history of drunk driving is going to get less punishment that someone who's on their 3rd. A player who has had numerous incidents is going to get a far worse reaction that someone who's got shot at while getting food on their way home.

NuffSaid
03-18-2009, 05:05 PM
I feel bad for Landry and Houston, but I'll be the first to say it...

FINALLY IT WAS NOT ONE OF THE PACERS IN THE NEWS!

Keep it up Pacers, a whole season without any trouble would be a great first step to get over all that junk in the past. I'm proud of the way they have performed off-court this season.
Here, here!!

NuffSaid
03-18-2009, 05:10 PM
Can you REALLY not see the difference between Jamaal Tinsley and Carl Landry?

I havne't really followed him all that much, but I don't think I've heard his name in one other incident, let alone multiple.

If this was Rush, Hibbert, Diener, McRoberts, Foster, Murph, or anyother Pacer player that hasn't been in trouble before, then you would see the same reaction.

Eeeeerrrrhhh! WRONG!

If any Pacer player were shot at it would definately make headlines no matter who it was because it was a Pacer player. Once marred in the dark as far as public opinion is concerned it takes years to come back into the light. As echoed above, it's good that this wasn't a Pacer who got shot at. I can imagine the fallout from it no matter the reason. The media - both local and national - would've had a field day with such news just because the team the player was affiliated with - the Pacers! And as we all know their recent history of off-court antics hasn't been the most appealing.

Pacersfan46
03-18-2009, 05:43 PM
More importantly, I wanted to remind everyone different strokes for different folks. Let's not start labeling certain establishments/areas of town if you don't know what you're talking about.

I know better than most the perils West side. I've been shot there personally myself. That area of 38th street is terrible. I've had multiple friends robbed at gunpoint. I do know what I'm talking about.

See the car in my avatar? Here's what it looks like on the West side of Indy ....

http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/6/l_7833c89d4fcc49f9a1df831ab837ca34.jpg

However, I'm smart enough to not be going to night clubs and asking to hang around those people .... for Christs sake I can't even go to the movies on that side of town. My friends however, aren't that smart and still go. I call them the same moron I'd call Tinsley to his face.


Jamaal wasn't at some crazy club the night he was carjacked... he was at a legit restaurant that happens to be open past 8pm.

I was torn on if you were being sarcastic or not. Just in case, if not ...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3151079

"Police said the trouble started at a nightclub on the city's west side. Tinsley's group had arrived at the "Cloud 9" club in a Mercedes, a Rolls Royce and a Dodge Charger, all owned by Tinsley."

-- Steve --

Anthem
03-18-2009, 09:49 PM
I was torn on if you were being sarcastic or not. Just in case, if not ...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3151079

"Police said the trouble started at a nightclub on the city's west side. Tinsley's group had arrived at the "Cloud 9" club in a Mercedes, a Rolls Royce and a Dodge Charger, all owned by Tinsley."

-- Steve --

http://www.cloud9barandgrill.com/

So your take is that Cloud 9 is a legit establishment, but Tinsley's group should have driven up in a Honda Accord?

Pacersfan46
03-19-2009, 02:13 AM
http://www.cloud9barandgrill.com/

So your take is that Cloud 9 is a legit establishment, but Tinsley's group should have driven up in a Honda Accord?

If you think Cloud 9 is a fine establishment, then I implore you to go, because you obviously haven't. Certainly not late at night.

You should have went last week when they had the after party for the 'Young Jeezy' concert there. I'll bet there weren't any drugs anywhere near that place, and I bet it drew the finest of crowds too. I bet it was like an Oasis in the middle of a bad part of town. Such a fine establishment. :twocents:

It's not a smart place for Tinsley to be while riding a bike, a moped, a motorcyle, while Driving Miss Daisy or anything else. However the more you stand out, the more likely you are to be harassed. So yes, driving a Rolls is more likely to get you in a mess than an Accord. However the people that just hang out outside of the club in the parking lot are plenty bad enough. That's how my friends got robbed there. Standing in the parking lot and a guy comes up in front of them with a flashlight and shines it in their eyes like a cop would, and someone else came up behind them with a gun and made off with all their wallets.

So yes, feel free to go if you'd like.

However this is not a "restaurant that's open past 8" as you said in your first post. Read the article. It's referred to as a 'night club' for a reason, because that's what it is. That place is no Denny's or Perkins.

-- Steve --

Eindar
03-19-2009, 07:25 AM
There isn't anything small about the differences.

All situations are evaluated independently, as they should be. A person with no history of drunk driving is going to get less punishment that someone who's on their 3rd. A player who has had numerous incidents is going to get a far worse reaction that someone who's got shot at while getting food on their way home.

No, if all situations were evaluated independently, we'd not even be talking about the Conrad incident, because that is simply a poor choice that an athlete made that almost cost him his life. Marvin Harrison has made a similar poor choice involving loaning out guns. In fact, a lot of pro athletes have made a poor decision during their playing career. This is clearly a case of situations being evaluated based on history, and biasing your opinion based upon what has happened in the past.

In a bubble, Carl Landry buying greasy fast food to fuel the body he is paid millions of dollars to perform with late at night is no different than Tinsley going to a nightclub in a bad part of town. Both are poor choices made by professional basketball players that nearly cost them their life. The difference is in the history, which in this case I don't care about, because Tinsley showed a history of starting trouble, which there was no evidence of in the Conrad incident.

Justin Tyme
03-19-2009, 10:48 AM
[QUOTE=Kraft;865216]

Running on a previously torn ACL, too. And then shot. And he's 6-7. /QUOTE]


Just FYI, Landry is 6'9". His height was an issue that was put to rest last summer during his FA in the thread for the Pacers signing him as a FA.

Justin Tyme
03-19-2009, 11:08 AM
In a bubble, Carl Landry buying greasy fast food to fuel the body he is paid millions of dollars to perform with late at night is no different than Tinsley going to a nightclub in a bad part of town.


Oh please! There is no comparison. None whatsoever. Where do some of you people come up with this nonsense?

Pacersfan46
03-19-2009, 11:27 AM
In a bubble, Carl Landry buying greasy fast food to fuel the body he is paid millions of dollars to perform with late at night is no different than Tinsley going to a nightclub in a bad part of town.

By this logic if Tinsley took himself to a KKK rally, you'd still not think it was dumb of him to attend when he doesn't walk away in full health. When in fact, it would be pretty poor decision making.

The crowd you CHOOSE to surround yourself with will determine some of the things that happen to you in your life. Good, bad or otherwise. This is just another example of that. I don't see driving down the street as choosing to surround yourself with those people in the same way that Tinsley made that choice.

If you can't believe that, then go start hanging out with hardcore street gang members, but don't buy a gun. See if you never get dragged into any of their mess. Would be fun to hear updates on that.

-- Steve --

Smoothdave1
03-19-2009, 11:30 AM
Since we don't know all of the details on Landry and where he was headed or what his plans were (other than to grab food), there are major differences between he and Tinsley:

-- Landry was with a lady friend/girlfriend and was rear ended by a group presumably looking for someone else or a group of individuals who were jealous because he was driving a luxury SUV. Was Landry driving through a specific area to show off? Doubtful, especially at 4am. What if Landry had been out in an affluent suburb like Sugarland, would people still have argued the same point?

-- Tinsley was hanging out in one of the worst parts of Indianapolis for social activities intentionally, not to mention he was driving a $350,000 Rolls Royce Phantom, a $100,000 Mercedes and a fleet of other cars. This was the same area where the Paces had their infamous Strip Club incident, where a few Colts players were car-jacked at gunpoint a few years ago and where there is a plethora of crime.

There's a level of common sense that Tinsley lacked. There are probably less than 10 Phantoms in Indy, with probably half of those being owned by Athletes. Bottom line: The car draws attention and a lot of looks. Tinsley knew he would draw attention driving the car into a rough part of town. Of course trouble will only follow as jealousy and envy set in from others.

My point is that Tinsley knew that he would draw attention driving these vehicles and some people looked at him and were certainly jealous. Who's to say what he said to those at Cloud 9 or what caused them to follow him downtown?

Landry, by the way, spends a good part of his summer living and working out in Indy. I also have a co-worker who knew him and had classes with him while at Purdue and said he was as nice as could be and very down to earth.

Since86
03-19-2009, 12:14 PM
No, if all situations were evaluated independently, we'd not even be talking about the Conrad incident, because that is simply a poor choice that an athlete made that almost cost him his life. Marvin Harrison has made a similar poor choice involving loaning out guns. In fact, a lot of pro athletes have made a poor decision during their playing career. This is clearly a case of situations being evaluated based on history, and biasing your opinion based upon what has happened in the past.

I shouldn't have said incidents should be evaluated independently, that's my mistake. I should have said the incidents involving the same people.

Jamaal has a history of bad decision making. Make one bad decision, and you get into trouble, that's one thing. When you make multiple, like Jamaal, that's a completely different story.

Like I said, someone who is arrested on their first DUI gets treated a lot differently in court than someone arrested for their 5th. (Yes, I know Tinsley has never been formly found guilty, but that doesn't sway public opinion. It would only strengthen it)


In a bubble, Carl Landry buying greasy fast food to fuel the body he is paid millions of dollars to perform with late at night is no different than Tinsley going to a nightclub in a bad part of town. Both are poor choices made by professional basketball players that nearly cost them their life. The difference is in the history, which in this case I don't care about, because Tinsley showed a history of starting trouble, which there was no evidence of in the Conrad incident.

I'm done with this conversation. That's out of this world ridiculous.

Midcoasted
03-19-2009, 12:59 PM
Some of you people have a serious case of a "blame the victim" mentality. Driving around Indianapolis in any circumstance is a bad decision. Just look at the homocide list on IndyStay.com. No matter where you are at within the circle you got a chance to be murdered or robbed for no reason. Tinsley and Landry were both victims. This is America, and we have a thing called freedom. Are you people ****in "commies?"

Tinsley had the choice and the right to go to Cloud 9, regardless of whether it was smart or not. IMO he would be just as at risk coming out of any bar in the city. So what pro athletes should not be allowed to go to public places? I saw JO going into the Vogue once on old school night. If some one just walked up to him and shot him you people would blame him.

So what if Tinsley's brother didn't have a gun to return fire? Do you people believe in banning handguns for personal protection and abolishing the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution? If someone shoots at me first I have the right as a US citizen to shoot back to kill them to protect my own life/rights. It's called freedom, if you don't like it, tuck your dick between your legs and move to Russia or China.

Tinsley's and Landry's cases aren't that far apart. Both had the freedom and the right to go wherever they want at any time of the day. Some of you are acting like dictators. If I go downtown tomorrow night and some **** shoves a gun in my face and kills me for 10 bucks, then I'd be the victim. But I know somehow some of you would see the story and think, "it was his fault for being there."

I guess we should also blame the people for showing up at the WTC on 9/11. Everyone knew it was a target. It already had been bombed by Bin Laden once. I guess it's their fault for ever working at such a dangerous place. :rolleyes:

Kraft
03-19-2009, 01:03 PM
[QUOTE=Kraft;865216]

Running on a previously torn ACL, too. And then shot. And he's 6-7. /QUOTE]


Just FYI, Landry is 6'9". His height was an issue that was put to rest last summer during his FA in the thread for the Pacers signing him as a FA.

If you say so. I've stood right next to the guy dozens of times. If he ever measured 6-9, I'd like to inspect the tape measure.

But I do really like Carl.

count55
03-19-2009, 01:09 PM
[QUOTE=Justin Tyme;865485]

If you say so. I've stood right next to the guy dozens of times. If he ever measured 6-9, I'd like to inspect the tape measure.

But I do really like Carl.

6'7.75" barefoot

6'8.5" in shoes (which is the generally accepted measure)

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/measurements.php?year=2007&sort2=ASC&draft=0&pos=0&sort=1

Kraft
03-19-2009, 01:13 PM
6'7.75" barefoot

6'8.5" in shoes (which is the generally accepted measure)

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/measurements.php?year=2007&sort2=ASC&draft=0&pos=0&sort=1

Proof! Sweet.

I went with the compare-him-to-Matt Kiefer eyeball test, but numbers work, too.

Since86
03-19-2009, 01:19 PM
I guess we should also blame the people for showing up at the WTC on 9/11. Everyone knew it was a target. It already had been bombed by Bin Laden once. I guess it's their fault for ever working at such a dangerous place. :rolleyes:

Oh wow, it just keeps getting better.....

Comparing going to a shady night club, and going to work in a federal building is about as stupid as it gets.

They aren't even in the same universe, let alone the same subject.

It's about the probability of finding trouble. 99.999999999999999999% of the time, you're perfectly safe at work, especially at a building like the WTCs. Going to a nightclub, in a not so nice part of town has a lot higher probability of finding trouble. Add in that you're rich and famous, and it gets even higher.

Yes, you can get in trouble anywhere. Violence doesn't know age, race, sex, or decree. But it's about putting yourself into situations that have high chances to find trouble.

Can Tinsley go there and have no problems? Probably. I would imagine that wasn't his first time at that place and everything was fine. But the chance that something happening is obviously a lot higher than reporting for work at a federal building.

And no, I am not a commie. I believe full heartedly in personal responsibility. I believe that making smart decisions is actually a good thing, and that other people have the options to make their own decisions.

I don't roll through the projects and throw up gang signs. That would be stupid. I have every right to do so if I want to, though. Just because you have the right to do something, doesn't mean you should do it, or that it's a smart decision.

If you want to avoid trouble, don't go hanging out in places that have a high probability of inviting trouble. It's a pretty simple concept.

EDIT: Oh, and if someone starts shooting at you, get your butt to a safe place and then report it to the police. Don't get in a high speed chase through a city and start shooting back. This isn't the old West, where violence should be greeted with violence.

Pacersfan46
03-19-2009, 02:20 PM
According to Midcoasted .... you could put a red rag in your back pocket and walk through a Crip neighborhood in Oakland. Yet, when you get shot it would be no fault of your own. I mean, you had a right to be there, and a right to be wearing the local gangs opposing colors, right?

Who cares how much the odds were against it being a smart decision, or healthy for you. You had the right damn it! :rolleyes:

Silly.

-- Steve --

Eindar
03-19-2009, 02:27 PM
According to Midcoasted .... you could put a red rag in your back pocket and walk through a Crip neighborhood in Oakland. Yet, when you get shot it would be no fault of your own. I mean, you had a right to be there, and a right to be wearing the local gangs opposing colors, right?

Who cares how much the odds were against it being a smart decision, or healthy for you. You had the right damn it! :rolleyes:

Silly.

-- Steve --

Prove that Tinsley was doing anything other than being courteous to his fellow nightclub patrons.

Again, statistically speaking, more bad things happen at night. Also, statistically, you're more likely to be robbed if you're visibly wealthy. So is picking up fast food at 2am when you should be spending that money hiring a personal chef a bad choice? I say absolutely. Is it as bad a choice as what Tinsley chose to do? Not even close. But it's shades of gray, and some here are treating it like it's black and white.

Pacersfan46
03-19-2009, 02:52 PM
Prove that Tinsley was doing anything other than being courteous to his fellow nightclub patrons.

Again, statistically speaking, more bad things happen at night. Also, statistically, you're more likely to be robbed if you're visibly wealthy. So is picking up fast food at 2am when you should be spending that money hiring a personal chef a bad choice? I say absolutely. Is it as bad a choice as what Tinsley chose to do? Not even close. But it's shades of gray, and some here are treating it like it's black and white.

Landry is on a contract after 1 year in the league. One year removed from being a 2nd round pick. He doesn't make star money. Or even starter money. After paying his agent, taxes and other things I would be willing to bet it's much tougher to hire a 24/7, live in personal chef than you would believe. Especially one that would be there to cook in the wee hours of the morning.

That's just a silly thing to assess any blame on him for. They had just gotten back from a game that night, how else was he supposed to get home? You're really reaching just to play devils advocate. As you even said, it's not even close.

As for Tinsley being courteous or not, that's the point. You don't have to be discourteous to end up in **** in that area. Did you see the pic of my car? Do you know what I did, or where I was? I was a couple blocks from Cloud 9 and what did I do wrong you might ask? I parked in that parking spot. That was all. The fool crashed into my PARKED car, and blamed me. When I refused to take blame, he pulled the gun and threatned to shoot me in the head. It's the people you're around and how irrational they are. Not how nice you are, or are not to them.

I did nothing, and said nothing inflammatory to him. In fact, he did something to me, and I wasn't even upset. That matters not when dealing with people like that. Which is why it's so obvious to me that you don't put yourself in that situation. Especially after you've already had issues with things like that in the past, and the team is telling you they're cracking down on players names in the paper for negative occurances.

-- Steve --

Los Angeles
03-19-2009, 03:20 PM
I know better than most the perils West side. I've been shot there personally myself. That area of 38th street is terrible. I've had multiple friends robbed at gunpoint. I do know what I'm talking about.

See the car in my avatar? Here's what it looks like on the West side of Indy ....

http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/6/l_7833c89d4fcc49f9a1df831ab837ca34.jpg

However, I'm smart enough to not be going to night clubs and asking to hang around those people .... for Christs sake I can't even go to the movies on that side of town. My friends however, aren't that smart and still go. I call them the same moron I'd call Tinsley to his face.



I was torn on if you were being sarcastic or not. Just in case, if not ...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3151079

"Police said the trouble started at a nightclub on the city's west side. Tinsley's group had arrived at the "Cloud 9" club in a Mercedes, a Rolls Royce and a Dodge Charger, all owned by Tinsley."

-- Steve --

I grew up between 34th and 38th, Moller and Highschool.

I never thought of it as a bad place when I grew up there, but people freak out about Venice, and the fact that i don't might mean I'm used to something that others don't know about.

Steve, I've said this before, but I'll say it again.

Nobody should ever have to go through what you went through.

Thank God you're alive and (hopefully) healed.

count55
03-19-2009, 03:22 PM
I grew up between 34th and 38th, Moller and Highschool.

I never thought of it as a bad place when I grew up there, but people freak out about Venice, and the fact that i don't might mean I'm used to something that others don't know about.


30th & Kessler...sisters and brother still live over there.

idioteque
03-19-2009, 03:51 PM
This is America, and we have a thing called freedom. Are you people ****in "commies?"

Have you ever worked in a professional setting? There are some high profile or government jobs that should stop people from entering certain situations. Freedom only really extends so far. If Mitch Daniels wasn't the governor of Indiana, he could go to a strip club every day of the week of he wanted to. But, since he's the governor and carries a high profile, people would probably freak out if he went to Hooters. Yet, no one forced him to become the governor, he did that by choice, so technically he's still free to do what he wants, but he chose to undertake responsibilities that constrain his freedom. I view pro athletes in the same light. If Tinsley was just some guy that worked at Eli Lilly and made $70,000 a year and drove a Camry, he could go to Cloud 9 every night and no one would care. But since he chose to become a professional basketball player and the high profile that comes with it, he needs to be more careful.

Again it is worth it to ask someone have YOU ever been to Cloud 9 because it seems relatively obvious that you have not. I've been to an afterparty at Cloud 9. I've also been to Zanzibar on the Waterfront, which is known to be one of the more dangerous nightclubs in DC. Both were stupid college decisions. And Cloud 9 scared me WAY more than Zanzibar. That place is grimy as hell and barely what you would call an "legitimate" establishment. Like most hood nightclubs, eventually they'll do something stupid and get shut down, mark my words.

And it is absolutely HILARIOUS that you would put the Vogue in the same category as Cloud 9. You might as well be comparing Chuck E Cheese and the Brass. Sure, you can get food at both establishments, but besides that fact they're incredibly different.

Pacersfan46
03-19-2009, 03:53 PM
I grew up between 34th and 38th, Moller and Highschool.

I never thought of it as a bad place when I grew up there, but people freak out about Venice, and the fact that i don't might mean I'm used to something that others don't know about.

Steve, I've said this before, but I'll say it again.

Nobody should ever have to go through what you went through.

Thank God you're alive and (hopefully) healed.

Thank you.

It sucked, I'll give it that. I'm healed now and have gotten back to playing basketball freely recently, but I'll never forget it. The 10 inch scar I carry around will make sure of that.

Either way, this is where Since 86 and I differ, I don't blame Tinsley's people for shooting back. If it happened again, (maybe I'm wrong here) but after it was clear what his intentions were, I'd have killed him myself if I had been carrying my gun and never stopped to feel bad about it. Well, him and his friend who jumped me from behind. I would have thought about how I might have saved the next person from having to deal with those idiots ....

I do feel bad for Tinsley to an extent. He didn't instigate the situation, but he still has to be smarter than that. However, Landry sounds exactly like my situation and I feel bad for him 100%. He didn't do anything to cause this, it seems, and truly pisses me off that idiots like that even are able to walk around with the rest of society (including those that shot at Tinsley too). Ugh.

-- Steve --