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View Full Version : How are you feeling about Danny's return?



binarysolo
03-02-2009, 01:47 PM
Word is that Danny will likely return this week. He is obviously our best player and in no way do I want to imply that we are better off without him. However, I am worried that when he comes back, the team will take a slight step backwards in adjusting to his return. IMO, the guys are playing their best ball of the season right now, and I hope Danny's return doesn't disrupt anything. With playoff hopes on life-support right now, we need every W we can get.

Thoughts?

BPump33
03-02-2009, 01:50 PM
I understand where you're coming from, but if I'm worried about anything it's Danny not being fully healed. I don't want him to rush back and cause himself an even more serious injury.

duke dynamite
03-02-2009, 01:51 PM
As long as he feels good and the doctors or training staff clears him I'm all for it.

BPump33
03-02-2009, 01:52 PM
As long as he feels good and the doctors or training staff clears him I'm all for it.

He was shooting around before the game last night and he appeared to be grimacing quite a bit. His shot looked pretty good, but every now and then he would turn and walk away with the "Damn, that hurt" look on his face.

duke dynamite
03-02-2009, 01:54 PM
He was shooting around before the game last night and he appeared to be grimacing quite a bit. His shot looked pretty good, but every now and then he would turn and walk away with the "Damn, that hurt" look on his face.

We should count our lucky stars that he didn't come back last night then. Lol

chrisjacobs7
03-02-2009, 02:28 PM
If he is 100% when he comes back I don't think we'll have a problem. If he tries to come back at less than 100% though it might hurt us. In that situation he would be struggling on the court and it could cost us.

OakMoses
03-02-2009, 02:47 PM
I think we'll be fine as long as the other guys stay aggressive. Without Danny we've really seen 'Quis, Jack, and Murphy pick up the scoring slack. They've got to stay aggressive on the offensive end. We're a better team with Danny scoring 20 ppg and the other guys feeling empowered within the offense.

CableKC
03-02-2009, 02:51 PM
The longer he rests, the better....not only for his health so that he doesn't pull a JONeal and return to early so that he ends up playing <100%....but BRush gets more burn cuz JO'B has not choice but to play him.

idioteque
03-02-2009, 03:09 PM
As long as he feels good and the doctors or training staff clears him I'm all for it.

Really? I am surprised you would take them at their word given some of the recent problems we've had with bringing guys back too early.

Of course I don't have inside information on Danny's knee, but from my perspective, getting the 8th seed in the playoffs is not worth jeopardizing our 60 million dollar investment, especially since I think we could be a 6 or so seed in the East next year.

deekay85
03-02-2009, 03:21 PM
Don't rush it Danny!!!

Bball
03-02-2009, 03:53 PM
I think it's great we have a team leader that wants to play thru injury but it's not necessary right now. Hopefully, the team shuts him down if there's any question at all... and if he does come back O'Brien limits his minutes for some time.

duke dynamite
03-02-2009, 04:08 PM
Really? I am surprised you would take them at their word given some of the recent problems we've had with bringing guys back too early.

Of course I don't have inside information on Danny's knee, but from my perspective, getting the 8th seed in the playoffs is not worth jeopardizing our 60 million dollar investment, especially since I think we could be a 6 or so seed in the East next year.
I'm not aware of any recent problems. JO was cleared. Mike was cleared.

Justin Tyme
03-02-2009, 04:30 PM
Really? I am surprised you would take them at their word given some of the recent problems we've had with bringing guys back too early.

Of course I don't have inside information on Danny's knee, but from my perspective, getting the 8th seed in the playoffs is not worth jeopardizing our 60 million dollar investment, especially since I think we could be a 6 or so seed in the East next year.



I couldn't have said it better!

The Pacers already have a problem with Dunleavy, so why even remotely take a chance on causing Danny a problem for the future?

Unclebuck
03-02-2009, 04:33 PM
Perhaps I am misreading reading some of you, but I think if you are suggesting that Dunleavy coming back when he did was too soon and thatr is why he is injured - I think is just plain wrong. Whether he played one minute this season or not he'd be in the same situation.

duke dynamite
03-02-2009, 04:37 PM
Perhaps I am misreading reading some of you, but I think if you are suggesting that Dunleavy coming back when he did was too soon and thatr is why he is injured - I think is just plain wrong. Whether he played one minute this season or not he'd be in the same situation.
Agreed. I honestly don't think that it's the training staff's fault here. They do all they can to make sure that they players can play.

Justin Tyme
03-02-2009, 04:46 PM
I honestly don't think that it's the training staff's fault here.


Sounds like you are saying they have been at fault in the past.

idioteque
03-02-2009, 04:58 PM
Perhaps I am misreading reading some of you, but I think if you are suggesting that Dunleavy coming back when he did was too soon and thatr is why he is injured - I think is just plain wrong. Whether he played one minute this season or not he'd be in the same situation.

So you don't think him playing had any negative effect whatsoever on his knee? I am no doctor by any stretch of the imagination but I find that strange. I am not trying to call you stupid or anything I just do not understand that line of thinking.

And UB this paragraph is not for you in particular, but isn't it pretty well documented JO came back too early whether or not he was "cleared"?

duke dynamite
03-02-2009, 05:15 PM
Sounds like you are saying they have been at fault in the past.
I know what you mean, but using the word here is not in the context that you are assuming. Sorry.

Trader Joe
03-02-2009, 05:22 PM
Perhaps I am misreading reading some of you, but I think if you are suggesting that Dunleavy coming back when he did was too soon and thatr is why he is injured - I think is just plain wrong. Whether he played one minute this season or not he'd be in the same situation.

Probably true, but you have to wonder how him playing in those games will affect his recovery time.

rexnom
03-02-2009, 05:35 PM
I don't feel very excited about it. What I want to know is whether he's back at 100% or he's back to where he was 3 weeks ago. If it's the former, great. If it's the latter, maybe he should sit out some more time because even 3 weeks ago, he looked like he was playing on one leg out there.

jhondog28
03-02-2009, 08:36 PM
I think what the teams play does allow is for the Pacers to not feel like they have to rush him back anytime soon. I honeslty think they have an excellent defensive line up on the floor right now. To be perfectly honest I think not having Dun and Murph on the floor at the same time has been a blessing and I also think that the team can play a little play ground basketball without feeling like they have to always give it up to the #1 option.

MyFavMartin
03-02-2009, 08:57 PM
Probably true, but you have to wonder how him playing in those games will affect his recovery time.

I doubt that, particularly if surgery is required, which would put him out for the rest of the season either way and regardless, the earliest you'd have him back is the start of next season.

There's a possibility that playing on it helped the rediagnosis/reevaluation. Trying different things is a part of medicine... hence, practice: not every patient is the same and not every treatment works exactly the same way. I'm sure most knee doctors haven't seen this situation before: a bone spur on a ligament. Makes me wonder if they'll first try to remove the bone spur w/o affecting the strength of the ligament and if that doesn't work, one may then replace the ligament?

I hope that he's able to come back to 100% Dunny, whenever that will be.

switch
03-02-2009, 10:18 PM
I don't want to see him come back if he's not fully healed. I remember watching JO try to come back before he should have and it hurt the team. We would continue to run plays as if he was 100% and he would end up turning the ball over in the post more times than he would score/complete a pass. Since Danny is the leading scorer, like JO was, players will still give him the ball just as often and expect him to make plays as usual.

If Danny can still shoot, drive, and play defense like he has been all season, please bring him back!! But if he cannot, stay on the bench and get well soon!

madison
03-02-2009, 10:27 PM
My preference is to be sure his knee as well as his foot are healthy. Leave him on the sideline for the last 20 games. They don't mean anything anyway. We aren't going to the playoffs with or without him. On the other hand, his absence might improve our draft position, and then next season, with a healthy Granger and a better draft choice we might have a better team.

pwee31
03-02-2009, 10:45 PM
Assuming he's ready to return... I'm even more excited

Watching him from on the bench last night pulling for the team got me pumped.

I think Danny could have a big home stretch. He's gotten to see what the guys can do without him, and that he doesn't have to be the 25 point scorer. He can concentrate more on defense, and be that go to guy at the end of the games

Of course he'll do more then that, but I'm hoping that he's learned from his team what he can do more of to help since he's been able to sit and watch.

That's IF he's healthy.

I think he should still sit out tomorrow, and if he can return Wednesday against Portland to give us some depth, and a fresh body on the floor.

I think we could sweep this road trip, but Portland is tough at home. Hoping Jack and Rush have something to prove being traded from the Blazers.

We need to do well this road trip b/c there's winnable games, as well as tough battles for the likes of the Bucks, Pistons, Sixer, Bulls and Nets... time to make up some ground!

Hicks
03-02-2009, 11:02 PM
I'm all for a healthy Granger coming back.

ReginaldWayne
03-02-2009, 11:05 PM
When you tear a tendon in your foot, it takes a long time for it to fully recorver, it always just feels a litte wierd. The only way for it to fully recover is to strengthen it, either by physical therapy, or just playing on it wrapped well.

Peter_sixtyftsixin
03-03-2009, 01:00 AM
I'm just nervous about it. I want him to come back, play well and contribute. Yet, I have a fear that this is just too soon.

Anthem
03-03-2009, 01:05 AM
Perhaps I am misreading reading some of you, but I think if you are suggesting that Dunleavy coming back when he did was too soon and thatr is why he is injured - I think is just plain wrong. Whether he played one minute this season or not he'd be in the same situation.
That's not true, UB. Trying to keep him active instead of shutting him down has a definite effect on how his knee feels right now.

Brad8888
03-03-2009, 02:22 AM
I think anyone outside the Pacers front office would prefer a completely healthy, pain free Danny coming back at whatever point that becomes possible, whether this week or next year or at any point in between.

Unfortunately, ticket sales and a playoff appearance to generate even two home games of full price ticket sales for 13,000 paying fans per game (doubt that sellouts would even happen then) would be considered helpful to the financial position of the franchise, and TPTB are likely to push for an early return despite the inherent risks of re-injury in the event he comes back too soon. Their reasoning in that case would likely be along the lines of figuring that Danny would have the offseason to heal and would be ready by the time training camp comes around next October, so why not try to boost revenue now.

BillS
03-03-2009, 10:36 AM
That's not true, UB. Trying to keep him active instead of shutting him down has a definite effect on how his knee feels right now.

Well, of course, but did it change the progress of the injury?

I think Dun's quote today was important, that you want to try everything else before surgery. Some of us forget that surgery is a drastic option and that something can always go wrong even with the experience sports surgeons have with arthroscopic surgery these days.

duke dynamite
03-03-2009, 11:16 AM
Unfortunately, ticket sales and a playoff appearance to generate even two home games of full price ticket sales for 13,000 paying fans per game (doubt that sellouts would even happen then) would be considered helpful to the financial position of the franchise, and TPTB are likely to push for an early return despite the inherent risks of re-injury in the event he comes back too soon. Their reasoning in that case would likely be along the lines of figuring that Danny would have the offseason to heal and would be ready by the time training camp comes around next October, so why not try to boost revenue now.
I actually feel that if the playoffs were to happen, even for just two home games, we could have some extra seats being filled.

Mourning
03-03-2009, 11:19 AM
I understand where you're coming from, but if I'm worried about anything it's Danny not being fully healed. I don't want him to rush back and cause himself an even more serious injury.

:amen:

Anthem
03-03-2009, 11:51 AM
Well, of course, but did it change the progress of the injury?

I think Dun's quote today was important, that you want to try everything else before surgery. Some of us forget that surgery is a drastic option and that something can always go wrong even with the experience sports surgeons have with arthroscopic surgery these days.
Sure, I get that. I understand it's not my body going under the knife. But if what he needs is rest, then they should shut him all the way down for a few months instead of pushing the knee as far as he can constantly over the course of the season.

NuffSaid
03-03-2009, 02:25 PM
The rest of the team is playing well w/o Danny and Dun. Obviously, Dun's out for the rest of the season. I'd rather Danny returned only when he's 100%. I think the rest of the team can hold it down until his return.

I wouldn't rush him back. We've been through that too many times already w/Dun and a former franchise players...would rather not see the team (or the fanbase) go through that again w/Danny.

Hoop
03-03-2009, 04:30 PM
I'm scared they will bring Danny back to soon. The last several years it's like deja vu over again with Pacer players coming back to soon.

2minutes twowa
03-03-2009, 04:36 PM
If it were up to me, I would tell him, "Thanks for a great year, now take the rest of the season off." As competetive as Danny is, that probably wouldn't work. And I guess they're not "technically" out of the playoff hunt yet.

ChicagoJ
03-03-2009, 04:43 PM
Sure, I get that. I understand it's not my body going under the knife. But if what he needs is rest, then they should shut him all the way down for a few months instead of pushing the knee as far as he can constantly over the course of the season.

"Rest" is much closer to "shutting him down for the season" than trying to get him on the court to see if he can play impactively (ugh) with the pain.

I agree.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

The reality is this:

Everyone that thinks the Pacers are in dire financial straits and need to make money by qualifying for the playoffs in order to save the franchise needs to understand that in Management's eyes, Danny is an asset to be leverage for cash (ticket sales). If they think they can sell an incremental 100 seats per game with him scheduled to play, that is revenue they would not have otherwise had.

The Pacers have every motivation imaginable to get him back on the court as quickly as possible, regarless of either Danny's usefulness or any impact that playing could cause in the future.

Come on short-siders. Let's get the "Bring Back Danny NOW!" chant going. This team has a playoff berth to chase, and nothing is more important than those two extra games of revenue.

Which is more important? The long term prospects of the team (which includes Danny's and Mike's health) or making the playoffs this season?

This is, frankly, a golden opportunity to get minutes to Rush, Hibbert, Jack and McRoberts.

duke dynamite
03-03-2009, 04:47 PM
"Rest" is much closer to "shutting him down for the season" than trying to get him on the court to see if he can play impactively (ugh) with the pain.

I agree.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

The reality is this:

Everyone that thinks the Pacers are in dire financial straits and need to make money by qualifying for the playoffs in order to save the franchise needs to understand that in Management's eyes, Danny is an asset to be leverage for cash (ticket sales). If they think they can sell an incremental 100 seats per game with him scheduled to play, that is revenue they would not have otherwise had.

The Pacers have every motivation imaginable to get him back on the court as quickly as possible, regarless of either Danny's usefulness or any impact that playing could cause in the future.

Come on short-siders. Let's get the "Bring Back Danny NOW!" chant going. This team has a playoff berth to chase, and nothing is more important than those two extra games of revenue.

Which is more important? The long term prospects of the team (which includes Danny's and Mike's health) or making the playoffs this season?

This is, frankly, a golden opportunity to get minutes to Rush, Hibbert, Jack and McRoberts.
I'm confused. This seems to go both ways. What side are you on!? lol :laugh:

ChicagoJ
03-03-2009, 04:57 PM
Its in everyone's best interest except the Simons to sit Danny down for the rest of the season and bring him back next season, 100% healthy.

So I expect Danny to return soon as the Pacers chase the holy grail of "Revenue from Two home playoff games". Meanwhile, as they close in on the 35-36 wins required to limp into the playoffs in the lowly East, somebody will find a way to villify Dunleavy for doing exactly what the doctors say he should do - rest.

:dunce:

rexnom
03-03-2009, 04:57 PM
"Rest" is much closer to "shutting him down for the season" than trying to get him on the court to see if he can play impactively (ugh) with the pain.

I agree.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

The reality is this:

Everyone that thinks the Pacers are in dire financial straits and need to make money by qualifying for the playoffs in order to save the franchise needs to understand that in Management's eyes, Danny is an asset to be leverage for cash (ticket sales). If they think they can sell an incremental 100 seats per game with him scheduled to play, that is revenue they would not have otherwise had.

The Pacers have every motivation imaginable to get him back on the court as quickly as possible, regarless of either Danny's usefulness or any impact that playing could cause in the future.

Come on short-siders. Let's get the "Bring Back Danny NOW!" chant going. This team has a playoff berth to chase, and nothing is more important than those two extra games of revenue.

Which is more important? The long term prospects of the team (which includes Danny's and Mike's health) or making the playoffs this season?

This is, frankly, a golden opportunity to get minutes to Rush, Hibbert, Jack and McRoberts.
Well, yeah, but this is secondary. And also, you can make an argument that giving playing time to Jack and McRoberts might price them out of the Pacers' range. The primary argument is that playing Danny might hurt this franchise in the future.

duke dynamite
03-03-2009, 05:03 PM
Its in everyone's best interest except the Simons to sit Danny down for the rest of the season and bring him back next season, 100% healthy.

So I expect Danny to return soon as the Pacers chase the holy grail of "Revenue from Two home playoff games". Meanwhile, as they close in on the 35-36 wins required to limp into the playoffs in the lowly East, somebody will find a way to villify Dunleavy for doing exactly what the doctors say he should do - rest.

:dunce:
But what I have been saying is that if Danny is feeling good, and he is cleared, then he should play if he wants. (Which I am sure he wants to.) Playoffs or not, I think whoever we have that can play and play well, consistently, should play.

On the other hand, getting into the playoffs regardless of record is still good. even if it's for 2 games or 10. Not just for the benefit of ticket sales do I say this. From a fan's standpoint, I want to see this team win not matter what. As impossible as that may seem, it could happen.

ChicagoJ
03-03-2009, 05:22 PM
There's a huge difference between "cleared to play" and 100% healthy. Huge.

From a fan's standpoint, I want to see the team contend.

To do that, they need assets which, for a team like the Pacers in salary cap purgatory - over the cap, but not invested into the right players - come from the draft and not from within.

This season, since Day #1, has been an investment in the future because this particular team is not close to contending. The playoffs are fool's gold. Primarily because the investment to prepare to contend in the 2010 playoffs looks a lot different than the investment to prepare to back into the 2009 playoffs.

Sitting on the expiring contracts so that they really become salary relief this summer shows me that management finally "gets it." Sitting down Mike for the rest of the season does too. More opportunities lately for Rush, Hibbert and Jack helps. Bringing back Danny, unless he's 100% healthy and not merely, "ready to get back onto the court, even though he's really only 65% healthy" is not appropriate. It is, however, appropriate for a legit contender. Which we aren't.

duke dynamite
03-03-2009, 05:33 PM
There's a huge difference between "cleared to play" and 100% healthy. Huge.

From a fan's standpoint, I want to see the team contend.

To do that, they need assets which, for a team like the Pacers in salary cap purgatory - over the cap, but not invested into the right players - come from the draft and not from within.

This season, since Day #1, has been an investment in the future because this particular team is not close to contending. The playoffs are fool's gold. Primarily because the investment to prepare to contend in the 2010 playoffs looks a lot different than the investment to prepare to back into the 2009 playoffs.

Sitting on the expiring contracts so that they really become salary relief this summer shows me that management finally "gets it." Sitting down Mike for the rest of the season does too. More opportunities lately for Rush, Hibbert and Jack helps. Bringing back Danny, unless he's 100% healthy and not merely, "ready to get back onto the court, even though he's really only 65% healthy" is not appropriate. It is, however, appropriate for a legit contender. Which we aren't.
Well, I know what you mean. And when I say cleared to play, I am sorry that I don't say 100%. I'm not sure that 100% is something that a given player is on any night.

I'm sorry I don't agree with playing now for the future. I apologize for wanting us to play for now. But I don't see much sense in playing for tomorrow when we are still playing for today. There will be a tomorrow, don't call me overly-optimistic, because Danny will be good enough when he comes back, let alone for next season.

If Danny is unable to come back, then fine, hang it up for the year. A playoff spot is a playoff spot. I get a lot of flack for being too optimistic. Why can't others get flack for being pessimistic? If you think we are going to lose that is fine, but what matters is that we have an opportunity to try.

ChicagoJ
03-03-2009, 06:26 PM
There is a difference between pessimism and taking a long-term view.

You're not too optimisitc. I just question the wisdom of investing that optimism into this particular roster, this particular season.

I like what they are slowly building, and it is a long, slow process to do it right.

Brad8888
03-04-2009, 02:03 AM
I actually feel that if the playoffs were to happen, even for just two home games, we could have some extra seats being filled.

Please don't misunderstand, I would prefer to be wrong on this for the sake of the franchise, but...

Based on the maybe three or four "sellouts" we have had this year against the elite teams that have come to town (some of which had quite a few no-shows, the last Cleveland game being the best in terms of actual people in the building with virtually no empty seats), there is some possibility that you would be right. However, those games were also included as sweeteners in various package deals where probably between half and two-thirds of the building were seats sold for deeply discounted prices, not face value or a little above as the first round appears to be. Even in much better economic times with our teams having a better chance of advancing there have been quite a few times since we moved to Conseco that had attendance issues.

I hopefully am wrong, but I believe we will have a hard time unless the franchise shows "fan appreciation" and offers at least some discount on the games as an additional incentive.

And, obviously, all of this speculation is moot if we fall just short of making the playoffs in our customary purgatory of the #11 spot or so in the draft.:(