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View Full Version : Back to the 'Glory Days'



IndyHoosier
03-01-2009, 12:01 AM
I know I don't contribute alot to this board, but I have been around here for a LONG time, albeit alot of lurking, but I am just not as good of a communicator as most. I have enjoyed reading alot of posters on here for a long time, namely UB, K-Stat, Naptown Seth, Newman8r, Anthem, Peck, and of course Hicks (sorry if I left anyone out, everyone on here is great), but I have something on my mind that I need some of you to help me with.

I have been a huge Pacers fan since about 1983, all through the lean years, the glory years, and now through the lean years again. Back in the 80's, we didn't know how to win but that changed in the early 90's due to Reggie, Rik, the Davis "Brothers", Heywoode, etc. I remember how all of those teams back then electrified this city like some of you young guys, my 10 and 11 year old kids included, could never understand. It really seems to me that Reggie was overwhelmingly the main catalyst for all the good that happened to this franchise for a long time, I really miss those days.

My question is what will it take for us to get back to those type of city changing, electrifying feelings that we took for granted in Indy for so long? I remember when Reggie was drafted, there wasn't a whole lot of people in this city that were very happy with the selection. It took him a few years to gain the respect of this city but when we got behind him, it was magic. Will Brandon be the one to do this? I remember sitting at Conseco Fieldhouse on draft night last year with my kids when we drafted Bayless and everyone there was so excited. I got home and found out we traded him for Rush and I got on this board and other sites and there were ALOT of people less than thrilled with the trade. This kind of reminds me of the situation with Reggie on draft night all those years ago, although it's a bit different because most people wanted us to draft Steve Alford back then. Can you imagine where we would be now if that would have happened? Probably the FORMER "Indiana" Pacers. Brandon has shown flashes of his potential but I am not sure if he can be the catalyst to make this city embrace the Pacers like Reggie did so many years ago.

Is there someone in this draft class that could do this for us or am I just hoping for too much? I realize that there is not alot of 'potential' in this year's draft but Reggie didn't start out as a superstar and not many people envisioned him being a superstar back in '87, but he sure was in alot of our minds. I suppose I just need some reassurance that the glory days will return soon.

Please let me know your thoughts on this subject.

Thanks,

Indyhoosier

Swingman
03-01-2009, 12:29 AM
Other than Granger, it's too early to tell if any other player on the roster will become an all-star.

Rush has talent but who knows if he'll prove his doubters wrong like Reggie did.

Not even going to try to guess who the Pacers will draft. Not many have guessed our past picks right before they were made.

IndyHoosier
03-01-2009, 01:01 AM
Not even going to try to guess who the Pacers will draft. Not many have guessed our past picks right before they were made.

I understand that, just want to know if there is anyone out there that someone thinks COULD be that catalyst. I know that is impossible to predict, I just really think that there are alot of very smart Pacers fans on here, and I respect their intuition.

Indyhoosier

PS, I really don't believe Danny is that city changing catalyst, as good as he is, I could be wrong!!!!

N8R
03-01-2009, 01:20 AM
To me it is a whole team thing. I haven't been following the Pacers for too long, only since the late 90's when they kept coming again the Bulls.

For me it takes winning or a clear change in mindset for change. Being a Knicks fan the last few years it has been brutal but it got to the point that I rooted for the Knicks to be the worst team in the league so that changes would be made from the top to the bottom instead of just blaming the players. It is a lot easier now to be a fan of the Knicks with Donnie Walsh and D'Antoni. The mind set of the organization changed and I think that is what needs to happen with the Pacers.

I don't think Bird is the man to lead the Pacers back to what they were. They need a new mind and fresh ideas to get things rolling again.

pizza guy
03-01-2009, 08:27 PM
Those kinds of things are just impossible to predict. The Bulls getting Jordan, the Celtics getting Bird, the Lakers getting Kobe, and the Cavs getting LeBron. I mean, those kinds of players are "sure things," but so was Sam Bowie.

Getting back to the "Glory Days" is inevitable, however. It's harder to stay down than it is to get back up. A couple of bad seasons means a couple of good draft picks. If those picks turn into good players, then you've gone from a train-wreck to a young, improving team. Then, it's a "simple" matter of having the right coach for the right players at the right time against the right opponents...

OK, so, real "Glory Days" are hard to come by. But, "Better-Than-Yesterday Days" are almost certain.

If we are able to land a top 3 pick, then we've got the solid foundation of a young, improving team. We'll have a good pick this year, top 3 or not, and that's another step in the right direction.

I hope the next Reggie, Jordan, Bird, LBJ is out there, waiting for us to draft him. The team, and the city needs it. Because, whether we want to believe it or not, someday Peyton Manning will retire, and the Colts will probably be in shambles like the Pacers are now. Hopefully, the Pacers can be ready to step up and carry the city through that.

--pizza

aceace
03-01-2009, 09:07 PM
I was never upset with the Bayless trade, Rush while not spectacular has outplayed him this year. Roy looks like a keeper. I expect the Pacers to continue to take 4yr graduates. They are more mature and ready to help. If you can make it through college it's obvious you have some sense. All of the problems we seem to have are players with less than 4 years. Tins graduated (I assume) but he is an exception to this rule.

MyFavMartin
03-01-2009, 10:53 PM
I don't think Bird is the man to lead the Pacers back to what they were. They need a new mind and fresh ideas to get things rolling again.

Why not?

I think he's handled situations fairly well and the almost trades we've got a wind of, seemed to be good moves. I think he's had a lot to learn over the last few years and he's looking for some "quieter" years, in regards to off-court issues, of course.

He's got a steady hand as a GM, which I'm sure Donnie talked to him about, but also Bird knows the NBA.

IndyHoosier
03-02-2009, 12:08 AM
Those kinds of things are just impossible to predict. The Bulls getting Jordan, the Celtics getting Bird, the Lakers getting Kobe, and the Cavs getting LeBron. I mean, those kinds of players are "sure things," but so was Sam Bowie.


Reggie was anything BUT a sure thing coming out of college. I found an old newspaper article from the Lexington Herald-Leader (KY) dated June 24, 1987 that said:
The Pacers ignored the exhortations of their fans and took Reggie Miller of UCLA. The Pacers are dumb, dumb, dumb. For them, Alford was such an obvious choice that you can't help but wonder if a sort of reverse discrimination might come into play.

I am not looking for a sure thing. I'm looking for a wild card that can get us to the glory days. I have been thinking that Reggie's time started around the time that he and Starks kind of started the mini rivalry between them with the head butt. That sort of started the Pacers-Knicks rivalry that propelled him and the Pacers to great things.

Can Danny's mini rivalry with Lebron that started a few weeks ago propel us in that fashion? Especially if we sneak into the playoffs and get a 1st round matchup with Cleveland. Who knows what that would do for the city but it sounds like a good setup to a rivalry to me. Any thoughts on that?

pizza guy
03-02-2009, 12:40 AM
Those kinds of things are just impossible to predict. The Bulls getting Jordan, the Celtics getting Bird, the Lakers getting Kobe, and the Cavs getting LeBron. I mean, those kinds of players are "sure things," but so was Sam Bowie.

I didn't say Reggie was, because even though his draft was a little before my time, I knew he was a gamble and defied common logic. But, I get your point that you'd like to see another long-shot make it like Reggie did for us. I would love to see that myself.

Danny is a heckuva ball player, but he doesn't seem like the "rivalry" sort. I know the circumstances of the Cavs' game were tense, but I'm sure Danny called LeBron the next day and invited him over for tea. Rivalries just don't seem to be Danny's thing.

But, who's to say it can't happen? It'd be nice to see some games worth watching for reasons other than the opponents superstar...

--pizza

Coop
03-02-2009, 12:49 AM
Danny is a heckuva ball player, but he doesn't seem like the "rivalry" sort. I know the circumstances of the Cavs' game were tense, but I'm sure Danny called LeBron the next day and invited him over for tea. Rivalries just don't seem to be Danny's thing.
--pizza

Just curious as to why you feel like this. Everytime I've watched Danny play this year, it seems like he has that special swagger about him. If you don't give him the respect he deserves, he's going to take over and show you up. He's done it several times this year and it seems like he lives off of big moments.

Bball
03-02-2009, 12:50 AM
Reggie was anything BUT a sure thing coming out of college. I found an old newspaper article from the Lexington Herald-Leader (KY) dated June 24, 1987 that said:
The Pacers ignored the exhortations of their fans and took Reggie Miller of UCLA. The Pacers are dumb, dumb, dumb. For them, Alford was such an obvious choice that you can't help but wonder if a sort of reverse discrimination might come into play.



The legend grows and grows as the years go by.

The facts are that Alford was picked number 3 in the 2nd round of the draft so several teams were 'dumb, dumb, dumb' or else the UK Herald Leader of 6-24-87 didn't really have a finger on the pulse of NBA basketball. In 1987, and in the heart of Wildcat country, and in a state without an NBA team, I'm going to bet they didn't have a good feel for NBA basketball.

Alford was picked so far after the Pacers took Reggie that it's hard to even say Walsh was brave to go against the IU fans that wanted to see Alford continue his basketball career in Indiana. Clearly, Alford was seen as a questionable NBA talent at best by the league and the Pacers didn't need to take a gamble even if it did have a potential marketing upside. Obviously, that upside would be limited if Alford was relegated to the bench. And obviously again, that is where most NBA people thought he'd be.

And not only that, but the one team that might see a backlash from Alford not getting minutes, let alone being cut or traded, would've been Indiana. So taking Alford would've been a gamble on several levels. .

Considering Alford's recognition and accomplishments during his college career, and coming off a natl championship, for him to drop as far as he did was very telling about just how little NBA potential that league honchos saw in him.

IMHO... that Lexington newspaper clip is a bit misleading because it's focusing on why they think the Pacers should've taken Alford, not what Reggie's projection would be. Plus, as I've tried to show, they were clearly out to lunch on their NBA projections anyway if they thought the Pacers should have taken Alford when they had the advantage even then of hindsight to see that Alford wasn't high on anyone's list... not even the Indiana Pacers...

-Bball

Justin Tyme
03-02-2009, 06:30 AM
I don't think Bird is the man to lead the Pacers back to what they were. They need a new mind and fresh ideas to get things rolling again.



I couldn't agree more!

count55
03-02-2009, 06:56 AM
The legend grows and grows as the years go by.

The facts are that Alford was picked number 3 in the 2nd round of the draft so several teams were 'dumb, dumb, dumb' or else the UK Herald Leader of 6-24-87 didn't really have a finger on the pulse of NBA basketball. In 1987, and in the heart of Wildcat country, and in a state without an NBA team, I'm going to bet they didn't have a good feel for NBA basketball.

Alford was picked so far after the Pacers took Reggie that it's hard to even say Walsh was brave to go against the IU fans that wanted to see Alford continue his basketball career in Indiana. Clearly, Alford was seen as a questionable NBA talent at best by the league and the Pacers didn't need to take a gamble even if it did have a potential marketing upside. Obviously, that upside would be limited if Alford was relegated to the bench. And obviously again, that is where most NBA people thought he'd be.

And not only that, but the one team that might see a backlash from Alford not getting minutes, let alone being cut or traded, would've been Indiana. So taking Alford would've been a gamble on several levels. .

Considering Alford's recognition and accomplishments during his college career, and coming off a natl championship, for him to drop as far as he did was very telling about just how little NBA potential that league honchos saw in him.

IMHO... that Lexington newspaper clip is a bit misleading because it's focusing on why they think the Pacers should've taken Alford, not what Reggie's projection would be. Plus, as I've tried to show, they were clearly out to lunch on their NBA projections anyway if they thought the Pacers should have taken Alford when they had the advantage even then of hindsight to see that Alford wasn't high on anyone's list... not even the Indiana Pacers...

-Bball

Agreed. Alford had been talked up locally, but I never considered him as a real possibility at 11. I was mildly surprised he slipped to the second round, but the general consensus was that he was a late first rounder (at best) because no one was confident he could play point in the NBA...or get his shot off.

RWB
03-02-2009, 08:59 AM
One of the smartest things Reggie did was give several interviews after he was drafted and said he was thrilled about being a Pacer and especially going to play in a state where they appreciated basketball. Reggie was a PR dream for the Pacers and knew exactly how to play to that. You have to remember this happened just a short few years after the NFL Colts selected Daune Bickett also from California in the draft. Anyone remember how that came across? I can't forget seeing Bickett setting there when it was announced he was chosen by Indy in the first round and he has his hand on his forehead shaking his head no. Then he procedes to complain and let's his frustrations out asking why does he have to be forced to go to Indiana.

Regg did good right from the start becoming a Hoosier.

BillS
03-02-2009, 09:50 AM
I think with the toothless smile Danny won over a LOT of people in this hard-nosed basketball state. If he is able to keep improving and if he can get some pieces around him, I think he very well could be "the man" for a new generation of Pacer fans.

Regarding Bird, the problem I've had with him since his days working in the Celtics FO is that he is really not a very good judge of talent. I think if he is to be successful, he needs to have some help with the selections.

Putnam
03-02-2009, 10:00 AM
My question is what will it take for us to get back to those type of city changing, electrifying feelings that we took for granted in Indy for so long?


I don't think nostalgia is likely to help. Do we want to look back at all? Do we want to set up the mid-90s teams as the goal we aspire to?

It is great we've got some banners hanging in the fieldhouse, but none of those banners say "NBA Champion." I don't want to detract from Reggie or any other past Pacer great, but none of them brought an NBA championship to the city. And they never will. So if the city is every going to have a championship, it is going to come from the guys we have now, or guys we'll get in the future.

As far as reviving the city's support for the team, TPTB are on the right course for that. Give us players we can like first, then keep a roster together until they learn to win. Keep tickets affordable and the game experience enjoyable. They aren't promoting the team effectively among casual fans, but otherwise they are on track for a rebuilding process that we all know will take several years. Even if the get back to a better-than-.500 record next year, that still won't mean seriously competing for the prize.

Beyond the players' and TPTB's control are several other factors that argue there will never be a return to the "glory days." There are many more entertainment options now than in the mid-90s. Even among fervent basketball fans, there are distractions. Many NBA fans decided at the beginning of the season to buy league pass rather than game tickets.

Skaut_Ech
03-02-2009, 10:52 AM
I'll tell ya why I'm optimistic for a return to the "glory days" in one apect. This team likes each other, for the most part.

And I think that's huge.

I think affection for each other leads to a more cohesive unit and something you can build a franchise upon. The 90's were great, but one thing that stood out to me was how most of the team seemed to be buddies with each other. At any given time, you may come across a couple of the players hanging out together. I think that translated to the court.

I see that same thing with this team. That "'I got your back" attitude.'

Personally, I don't see us getting anyone in the draft who is going to be a huge impact to this team. Hell, there are very few franchise impact players any given year anyway and this crop looks to me pretty lean.

IndyHoosier, winning will electrify this city, but I don't think it will ever be to the level of mania it was in the 90's.

But I think we can get close. I wonder if we can snag a guy who's buried on the bench for his respective team, like J.O was, that we can snag, who can help give us a big push in the right direction.

I don't see it coming from the draft next year, but I wonder how guy's like Anthony Randolph, or a J.J. Hickson or whomever would work out for us. Maybe you lure Carlos Boozer here.

Bottom line, I see the same kind of scrappiness and team cohesion, overall, that I saw from our glory days teams. With a few smart moves this summer, I can see us getting a portion of that glory back fairly quickly.

Thesterovic
03-02-2009, 10:11 PM
Just curious as to why you feel like this. Everytime I've watched Danny play this year, it seems like he has that special swagger about him. If you don't give him the respect he deserves, he's going to take over and show you up. He's done it several times this year and it seems like he lives off of big moments.

*Cough* Reggie Evans *Cough*

IndyHoosier
03-02-2009, 11:21 PM
The legend grows and grows as the years go by.

The facts are that Alford was picked number 3 in the 2nd round of the draft so several teams were 'dumb, dumb, dumb' or else the UK Herald Leader of 6-24-87 didn't really have a finger on the pulse of NBA basketball. In 1987, and in the heart of Wildcat country, and in a state without an NBA team, I'm going to bet they didn't have a good feel for NBA basketball.

Your point is well taken. It is very difficult to get a good quote on the pulse of the 1987 draft when searching the internet these days, that was the best I could find :). I did read that the Bullets were steamed that we took him at 11, they wanted him bad with the 12th pick so they could trade Jeff Malone.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/longterm/memories/bullets/articles/87draft.htm

"This year, the Bullets apparently just missed out on making an even bigger splash when a proposed deal with the Denver Nuggets fell through. According to sources, Washington was prepared to send shooting guard Jeff Malone and forward Jay Vincent to Denver in exchange for point guard Lafayette Lever and forward Danny Schayes. (There were rumors later that Denver wanted Bogues in the trade.)

"You never know that you have a deal until a deal is made," Nuggets President Vince Boryla said from the team's draft headquarters in Denver. "We were one tick away from something big breaking. It didn't break; that's the way it goes."

The teams were still talking yesterday morning. But another snag came up early in the first round when the Indiana Pacers, picking 11th, took UCLA forward/guard Reggie Miller. According to sources, the Bullets were planning on taking Miller to replace Malone in their back court.

Ferry would not confirm that the Bullets were talking to Denver, but he did say that the Los Angeles Clippers' selection of former Georgetown star Reggie Williams with the No. 4 choice had ramifications all the way down to Washington's pick."

It's kinda fun to look back at what might have been. Just shows you that one pick can change a whole draft for better or worse.

Indyhoosier

IndyHoosier
03-02-2009, 11:31 PM
I don't think nostalgia is likely to help. Do we want to look back at all? Do we want to set up the mid-90s teams as the goal we aspire to?

I would give my left sack to bring the feelings back that I and this city felt back then about the Pacers. Championship or not, those teams were, like I said earlier, ELECTRIFYING! In my mind, and I am sure some of you will disagree, the Colts Super Bowl season didn't come close to some of those seasons back then in pure excitement.

Indyhoosier

Putnam
03-03-2009, 09:55 AM
I would give my left sack to bring the feelings back that I and this city felt back then about the Pacers.

:eek: :yikes: :eek:


Is there a doctor in the house?


.

count55
03-03-2009, 12:50 PM
I would give my left sack to bring the feelings back that I and this city felt back then about the Pacers.


:eek: :yikes: :eek:


Is there a doctor in the house?


.

Just how many "sacks" do you have?

IndyHoosier
03-03-2009, 09:56 PM
Just how many "sacks" do you have?

Now I did say in the first post in this thread that I am not as good of a communicator as most on here, lol. I wasn't lying!! :)

ABADays
03-03-2009, 10:32 PM
I think TPTB have done a hell of a job this year. Just keep doing what their doing and things are going to get a lot better.

IndyHoosier
03-03-2009, 11:28 PM
I think TPTB have done a hell of a job this year. Just keep doing what their doing and things are going to get a lot better.


I agree, we are headed in the right direction.