PDA

View Full Version : Pacers lose to Celtics 104-99



Trader Joe
02-27-2009, 11:02 PM
Rush played really well.

I was pretty disappointed in Jack and Diener tonight defensively. Murphy was also horrible on D. 18-19 points for Big Baby Davis? Are you serious Troy?

owl
02-27-2009, 11:06 PM
Overall the Pacers are slow in the front court and the Celtics were more
physical in the front court also.

ReginaldWayne
02-27-2009, 11:08 PM
As far as Jack defensively, its a rly hard job chasing Ray around the screens and he by himself was making Jack look terrible on D Jack did make some dumb mistakes trying to go over the screen instead of chasing and Ray burned him on those. He Just wasnt missing. We moved Rush on him, he still couldnt miss. Then we had to move tj on him, then the game slowed down and Ray was kinda quiet.

We should def. start Rush in the mean time and use Jack off the bench for offense.

Good effort tonight if only we didnt give up some big offensive boards and slowed ray down some early we coulda pulled this one off.

LG33
02-27-2009, 11:10 PM
I can't believe I missed the game where Rush takes 17 shots. Did he start off well? From what I've seen, I can't imagine him hoisting up so many shots without hitting the first few.

count55
02-27-2009, 11:11 PM
I don't think I saw Allen get bumped running off a screen once tonight. He would just swing around untouched, running either Jack or Rush all over the court.

You can see how good Boston's D is...there were stretches where they simply decided which Pacer was going to shoot and which ones were not going to get any looks.

ReginaldWayne
02-27-2009, 11:12 PM
I can't believe I missed the game where Rush takes 17 shots. Did he start off well? From what I've seen, I can't imagine him hoisting up so many shots without hitting the first few.

7 - 15. yea he hit 3 - 4 3's in the 1st half.

Kemo
02-27-2009, 11:15 PM
Considering we are missing 2 of our key stars , I think we played decently against Boston... in what "should" have been a blowout, considering how good this Boston team is... We came to the garden , and we held our own ..

Yes , I think we most definitely had a good chance at winning this game.. but it wasn't expected...

Cherokee
02-27-2009, 11:18 PM
Foster going 2-of-5 on layups didn't help, either.

D-BONE
02-27-2009, 11:21 PM
Can't really complain about this one. Good effort on our part. Foster great hustle when he went down to get that one loose ball under our bucket in the late 3rd or early 4th. Impressive! Still don't know that he's worth his extension, though.

McKeyFan
02-27-2009, 11:23 PM
We clearly missed Danny tonight. Especially his defense.

It required us to play Rasho too much and also Murphy/Foster. Danny at the four gives us a backcourt that can better defend. Danny at three gives us Rush defending the two. We had Diener and Ford guarding Allen and Starbury and that's just tough.

Playing perfectly down the stretch might have gained us a win tonight, but I say without Danny we just don't have the horses to pull this one off.

We lost this game at the beginning of the fourth quarter, when Ford and Troy were getting a breather and Travis and Rasho made the D too porous. They're decent players but the Celtics are a top tier team and we just couldn't quite get away with that lineup on the floor.

Thesterovic
02-27-2009, 11:24 PM
This game makes me SOOO happy. I mean, lets say we get Tyson, Stoudamire, Bass, or Hill. Then Rush develops. Granger is back. Murph will be in his prime. Hibbashaq will be way better. We may have a new coach. MLE. We trade Dunleavy. We trade Tinjury. This is all pretty reasonable guys. I say we will at least be .600 in 2 years.

Kid Minneapolis
02-27-2009, 11:31 PM
Not easy to beat Boston @ home. Was an even game until Ray Allen decided to become unstoppable in the 3rd... dude just wouldn't miss. Went from a tie game to a 10+ point lead in blink and we just never recovered.

vnzla81
02-27-2009, 11:40 PM
the pacers were really good today, I think that next year with Dun and Granger back and maybe trading or drafting for a long defender they could be a really good team in two years. Maybe getting a guy like Tyson Chandler could help Murphy inside and give time for Roy to develop

Unclebuck
02-27-2009, 11:41 PM
Nothing to complain about tonight. Overall I thought the Pacers effort and intensity was as good as it has been all season long. Great to see.

vnzla81
02-27-2009, 11:42 PM
Nothing to complain about tonight. Overall I thought the Pacers effort and intensity was as good as it has been all season long. Great to see.

agreed

Hicks
02-27-2009, 11:50 PM
Can't really complain tonight. A solid effort, but against a better team.

McKeyFan
02-27-2009, 11:50 PM
I wish Roy would keep his arms straight up. He's not as bad as David Harrison, but he's close. Very frustrating.

Justin Tyme
02-28-2009, 12:21 AM
I never expected the Pacers to win, so I can't say I'm disappointed they didn't win. To be quite honest, I'm surprised the game was as close as it was.
An overall view:

32nd game loss the Pacers have given 100+ points to the opponent.

Pacers had 10 more rebs with a total 46, and 17 were offensive rebs.

Pacers took 87 shots with a 43% FGA while Boston shot 52%.

Pacers shot 39% 3pt while Boston shot 52%.

Pacers had only 19 assists while Boston had 31.

Boston shot 52% both FG and 3pt shots. That's a hard combination to beat


Again, I surprised the Pacers only lost by 5 points.

Rush looked good, and with JO'B hand pumping Rush as he came off the court for a breather looks like Rush is out of his doghouse... for awhile anyway. I'm not sure what McBob has to do to get any PT.

O'Brien still has ugly ties. The man needs to put some pizzaz in his ties.

PacersRule
02-28-2009, 12:22 AM
Foster going 2-of-5 on layups didn't help, either.

Foster played great tonight. Especially the time when he stole the ball out of Perkin's hands and scored. Loved his effort tonight.

jeffg-body
02-28-2009, 12:39 AM
If there ever has been a good loss it was tonight. The effort was outstanding and the young guys stepped it up and put in a good effort.

MyFavMartin
02-28-2009, 12:47 AM
Some good deals on pacers stuff on nba.com. thought it said it ended at midnight tonight. sorry about the late notice, if so.

got a pacers shooting shirt for $20 off and free shipping.

sorry i missed the game but espn's write-up seemed to indicate that it wasn't as close as the score indicated but the pacers made a run at it near the end. looks like ray allen torched us but rush had a good game. roy's still learning.

ReginaldWayne
02-28-2009, 01:34 AM
I wish Roy would keep his arms straight up. He's not as bad as David Harrison, but he's close. Very frustrating.

When Roy is defending his man, why does he, everytime, slap down? He nearly always picks up a foul instead of letting his man just take that shot contested then try to box out. I mean he ALWAYS slaps down instead of keeping his arms up. Why doesnt some one tell him not to do this? Hes been doing it all yr and always picking up fouls slapping a guys arm trying to swipe for the ball. I dont get it.

ReginaldWayne
02-28-2009, 01:39 AM
Also, I dont know if anyone caught this lil blurb, but on the celtics broadcast they said Murph could be the 1st person in NBA history to average 10+ rebounds a game and 2+ 3 pointers a game.

OakMoses
02-28-2009, 01:54 AM
I was very happy with the Pacers' effort tonight. I strongly considered not watching the game because I thought we'd get blown out, but I was mad about missing Rush's 3rd quarter against Memphis, so I watched in hopes he'd have another one. He rewarded me well. Now what I'm waiting for is Rush and Hibbert to have good games at the same time.

Allen was on fire. Even when our guys were able to stay with him through the screens, he'd nail the shot. Smart move to put TJ on him in the 4th, I just wished O'Brien had done it sooner.

I hate Tommy Heinsohn. I'm sure there's some sort of sentimental value in listening to him for Boston fans, but I think he's the worst pure homer announcer in the NBA. He doesn't even do his homework on the other team. At one point tonight, after Allen hit a well-contested jumpshot with Rush on him, Heinsohn says, "You know Rush isn't going to give you anything at the defensive end because he's saving himself for offense." If he'd watched any film or even read a scouting report on Rush, he'd know just how stupid that statement is.

tonythetiger
02-28-2009, 02:00 AM
I mean he ALWAYS slaps down instead of keeping his arms up. Why doesnt some one tell him not to do this?

I'm sure they are.

CableKC
02-28-2009, 02:24 AM
I wish Roy would keep his arms straight up. He's not as bad as David Harrison, but he's close. Very frustrating.
Once Harrison figured out that he could simply alter shots by standing there with his hands in the air, he became fairly effective. Is that what you are referring to? I saw that Hibbert got 4 fouls in about 15 minutes of play. Are they stupid fouls that he could have avoided?

or

Are they ticky tack fouls that he couldn't have avoided?

imawhat
02-28-2009, 02:51 AM
Once Harrison figured out that he could simply alter shots by standing there with his hands in the air, he became fairly effective. Is that what you are referring to? I saw that Hibbert got 4 fouls in about 15 minutes of play. Are they stupid fouls that he could have avoided?

or

Are they ticky tack fouls that he couldn't have avoided?

They are almost all stupid fouls that could be avoided. He doesn't know how to keep his hands up straight.

Roy is blowing away the rest of the league with 10.8 fouls per 48 minutes. In second place is Amir Johnson with 9.5. Btw, Roy's total is the 6th highest in 9 seasons.

"Hands" Harrison led the league last year with 11.2.

duke dynamite
02-28-2009, 03:03 AM
This team played their heart out. If it weren't for the sloppy turnovers towards the end, we would've come up huge. We played a heck of a game. Rush is looking a lot better, and Troy is just the man!

Kemo
02-28-2009, 03:47 AM
Ya Murphy has had one heck of a year ..
I for one, am glad we have him ... We just need that one piece .... a dominant post presence on the defensive as well as offensive end to compliment Murphy , Hibbert and Foster ..
After this great season by him , somehow Murph's contract isn't looking so bad to me .(as everyone else seems to be complaining about ...)
I will say one thing , he most definitely busts his butt every night earning it..

At first when he came here , after watching him play the 1st half of his first season here , I was kind of undecided about Troy , but I developed a liking to him..

Same with Dun , I really think we have a special player in Mike.. I just pray to the basketball gods , that he can get his knee problem in order..

A 100% healthy Granger, Dunleavy, Murphy next season , in combination with our rookies maturing , and whatever we still have of our bench (hopefully Quis/Jack/McRoberts/Diener), and we will be a deadly team next season, that will strike fear in all the top teams we face .. (and hopefully all the mediocre teams we "should beat" lol if we can just buckle down)

I mean hell, I can almost guarantee you , if you talked to quite a few NBA coaches , such as Doc Rivers or Mike Brown for instance, they would tell you we are WAYYYYYY better than our record indicates ..
They know what's up ... Once we get healthy , and get ourselves the kind of low post player we so desperately need , we will be back in the playoff hunt hopefully without worrying at the end of the season if we can sneak in last place..

It is a process to develop a championship contending team ... Bird knows this , and I think he has done a wonderful job getting the right guys in here so far ..
The problem is , we as fans see this potential, these flashes of a great team , and we get very vocal and overly critical getting our hopes up so early in this teams development.. We are anxious .. lol and sometimes forget that we ARE in fact rebuilding , and it will take time ... It makes it very stressfull being a fan , and I see it reflect on PD ..
But rest assured , I think we are in for better days ahead of us for our Indiana Pacers ...
As for me , I am just enjoying watching our young players grow and get better, also seeing the team chemistry form ,while sitting back and enjoying the ride ..even through the heartbreaking losses we should have won..

Midcoasted
02-28-2009, 04:27 AM
Rush looked freaking amazing for a while out there tonight. He couldn't miss. Then he hit a wall and started to loose some confidence. We really dominated this game if it wasn't for Allen becoming unstoppable. I knew right then it was over deep down and it really depressed me. I knew we would fight back and give them a run but I knew it would be just out of reach.

Man I just hope that Roy can learn not to foul. Its the only major flaw in his game. Sometimes the refs are calling the "ticky-tackys" but tonight he seemed to be actually comitting the fouls. Hopefully he can change this. I really liked the effort from everyone tonight. So close to owning Boston in Boston, but I'm hoping I get my free tickets Sunday and I can go root for a victory against the Nuggets. I really hope we can string something together and make the playoffs. I truly believe we can give the Celts a run for their money if we make the playoffs healthy.

Justin Tyme
02-28-2009, 07:43 AM
Anyone else notice Foster ripping/stealing a rebound away from Murphy?

Speaking of Foster, he had only 3 offensive rebounds and 7 total. His 7 rebs was only 1 more rebound than Ford and 2 less "O" rebounds than Ford who had 5.

Sorry, Foster's not worth the 6 mil extension Bird gave him, and it's being proven out as the season progresses. I like Foster, but it is what it is... a Bird blunder pure and simple. I just hope it doesn't come back and bite the Pacers the next 2 years.

It looks like the last few games Hibbert has regressed. I'm not seeing any confidence in the last few games. I wonder how long b4 JO'B sits him? And yes he's got the Harrison tendency to make stupid fouls. IIRC, he made a block on a Pierce shot. He seems to be trying to constantly block or knock the ball out of a players hands, and thus the swiping down hand fouls. He just gets too many silly fouls.

Dr. Hibbert
02-28-2009, 07:45 AM
Hibbert is having a lot of the same problems as Harrison. I noted this in the game thread...I think the Pacers just lack a decent big man coach. Whenever they have a big with potential, they just waste him because he doesn't seem to grasp some of the fundamentals, and rarely shows much - if any - improvement.

MyFavMartin
02-28-2009, 08:48 AM
It's a rookie season for Roy. There'll be ups and downs.

The problem with Harrison is that he never learned not to foul.

I don't think Roy is going to have the same problem. :pimp:

Justin Tyme
02-28-2009, 10:34 AM
Hibbert is having a lot of the same problems as Harrison. I noted this in the game thread...I think the Pacers just lack a decent big man coach. Whenever they have a big with potential, they just waste him because he doesn't seem to grasp some of the fundamentals, and rarely shows much - if any - improvement.



You and I seem to be in the minority on our feelings about the Pacers needing a BIG MAN coach. TPTB seem to feel the other bigs will teach Hibbert what he needs to know when they themselves aren't good at many of the things themselves. Classic case of the blind leading the blind.

duke dynamite
02-28-2009, 10:35 AM
Kemo-

What if Hibbert is that post player you've been wanting? I've seen him be quite effective from the post up until a couple of games ago...

Troy, yes. Now if only we were a winning team, his deal would begin to look like a steal. Don't get me wrong, Troy is freakin' awesome, and I really think right now he is a capable leader in the absence of Danny.

ABADays
02-28-2009, 10:41 AM
Some good deals on pacers stuff on nba.com. thought it said it ended at midnight tonight. sorry about the late notice, if so.

got a pacers shooting shirt for $20 off and free shipping.

Rats - I missed it! :(

McKeyFan
02-28-2009, 10:43 AM
I'm big time impressed with Murphy right now.

He's banging some down low. He's showing a mixed arsenal of weapons on the offensive end. He's getting to the line and making the shots. He doesn't seem to be making many turnovers.

His midrange game has really come alive and he has taken it to the hoop a good bit, effectively. This is because teams are finally figuring out they must cover him on the perimeter, and he is making them pay.

I see a lot of bball smarts, as well. Fouling at the right time and the other night a great full court pass to get a quick two on a fast break.

Oh, and fifth leading rebounder in the league. He's not perfect, but I think he's earning his salary.

count55
02-28-2009, 10:43 AM
sorry i missed the game but espn's write-up seemed to indicate that it wasn't as close as the score indicated but the pacers made a run at it near the end. looks like ray allen torched us but rush had a good game. roy's still learning.

Allen did torch us, but it was a close game. The Pacers trailed by two to start the 4th, and Allen opened with a 4-point play. They pushed it out to 13, then the Pacers clawed their way back into it.


When Roy is defending his man, why does he, everytime, slap down? He nearly always picks up a foul instead of letting his man just take that shot contested then try to box out. I mean he ALWAYS slaps down instead of keeping his arms up. Why doesnt some one tell him not to do this? Hes been doing it all yr and always picking up fouls slapping a guys arm trying to swipe for the ball. I dont get it.

Somebody told Roy that he reminded them of Rik Smits, and he's trying to emulate every part of Rik's game.


Anyone else notice Foster ripping/stealing a rebound away from Murphy?

Yes, though it basically looked like two guys going for the ball.


It looks like the last few games Hibbert has regressed. I'm not seeing any confidence in the last few games. I wonder how long b4 JO'B sits him? And yes he's got the Harrison tendency to make stupid fouls. IIRC, he made a block on a Pierce shot. He seems to be trying to constantly block or knock the ball out of a players hands, and thus the swiping down hand fouls. He just gets too many silly fouls.


It's a rookie season for Roy. There'll be ups and downs.

The problem with Harrison is that he never learned not to foul.

I don't think Roy is going to have the same problem. :pimp:

He's definitely in a shooting slump, but I think he's been playing OK. I really don't see Obie sitting him for the rest of the season. Last night, for whatever reason, he wasn't fully pivoting on his hook shot. Instead of the arc going through the vertical plane of his body and head, it was going behind it.

As to the stupid fouls, Harrison is the poster child to us because of he's recent, and he was so disappointing. However, this is a pretty common problem that young bigs have. Harrison's problems ran far deeper, and I think he's a bad comparison for Roy. Honestly, I see more flashbacks of Rik when he commits those fouls than anybody else...getting position, hands up, then, almost reflexively, slapping at the ball at the last second.

I can almost hear him silently chanting to himself, "Don't slap down. Don't slap down. Don't sl...dammit."

McKeyFan
02-28-2009, 10:47 AM
Sometimes his slaps are quite effective. And thus the great temptation . . .

Justin Tyme
02-28-2009, 10:54 AM
It's a rookie season for Roy. There'll be ups and downs.

The problem with Harrison is that he never learned not to foul.

I don't think Roy is going to have the same problem. :pimp:



Yes, but the peaks and valleys shouldn't have so great after 3/4 of a season. It's not like he been sitting on the bench watching all year. What's wrong getting a big man coach to teach him how to play correctly?

If you are an avid hunter, do you just take the dog to the field and just say go gett'm boy, or do you train the dog with a seasoned "top notch" experienced dog that knows the ins and outs of how to hunt? You want that $1,000 plus investment trained right to produce the best dividends it can. Tromping around in cold weather all day with a dog that isn't trained right and expecting it to produce results isn't going to net alot of success. The young dog needs proper training to be successful, and so does Hibbert.

danman
02-28-2009, 10:58 AM
Misc. Reactions:

I was impressed with our perimeter defense. TJ, Jack, Daniels, and Rush all had some good moments. Ray earned his points and was on tonite.

Interior D is what it's always been this year. The need is painfully obvious.

Thought I'd see more excitement about Rush. Easily his best game. I wouldn't care about hitting a few shots... but he was moving with confidence to be effective. Did a shot fake and step back. Swooped to the rim a couple times. Pulled up for a short jumper... missed, but it was exactly the right decision. Fired with confidence when the ball was swung his way.

I was reaaaallly pumped about his play. The Celtic actually threw some help D at Rush. He made a couple mistakes, but all in all, a great night. I know he's not going to suddenly change, but I'm sure hoping he has a few more games like this before the season ends.

Hibbert... yes, he's a foul machine, but c'mon. Rookie big man. Don't mention Harrison unless Roy is incapable of learning anything over the years. Ha.

Unclebuck
02-28-2009, 11:04 AM
Couple of things in response to some of the posts.

1) can we please not compare Hibbert to Harrison. That is unfair to Roy. David harrson had severe problems that had nothing to do with basketball. Roy has none of those problems.

2) I think this thing where we look for teammates stealing rebounds from each other is a bit crazy

Noodle
02-28-2009, 11:05 AM
I just watched the game on DVR. Rush is coming along. Bird was wrong about the NBA ready part, but I'm glad Bird chose Brandon. I believe, he is going to be force in a couple of years. His ability to get his own shot is uncanny. His defense is already beyond his years(hedging the screen, blocked shots, deflections, bent knees, hands in the air, avoiding the shot fake then closing space in those situations, amazing rebounding instincts). He is easily our most athletic player. It makes it easier to let Daniels and Graham skate next season. He's a better scorer than he has shown.

Hibbert needs more strength to maximize his effectiveness. This is a big reason his defense rebounding is so terrible. That and his David Harrison syndrome. Like Hulk, Hibbert thinks he need to or can block every shot. I wish he'd just try and alter shots from the post. Opposition has trouble beating him to rim in the post despite his lack of speed. He forces difficult shots then bails them out too often with his aggressive, wild swatting act.
I hope he grows out of this unlike David. If he becomes stronger. He will be a force offensively.

I've noticed something. Foster gets screwed on so many blocking fouls that could have gone the other way. Has anybody noticed this. I mean, am I just being a homer. I know everyone gets charged with bogus fouls sometimes, but with Foster it seems nightly. I think maybe Foster annoys some refs because he is always in disbelief over every infraction.

Noodle
02-28-2009, 11:11 AM
1) can we please not compare Hibbert to Harrison. That is unfair to Roy. David harrson had severe problems that had nothing to do with basketball. Roy has none of those problems.
I don't think people are afraid that Hibbert will become like Harrison, but it's hard to ignore the fouling problems that they both have/had. The way the both thought/think they can block every single shot. The way the both lead/led the league fouls per minute.

pacergod2
02-28-2009, 11:19 AM
Yes, but the peaks and valleys shouldn't have so great after 3/4 of a season. It's not like he been sitting on the bench watching all year. What's wrong getting a big man coach to teach him how to play correctly?

If you are an avid hunter, do you just take the dog to the field and just say go gett'm boy, or do you train the dog with a seasoned "top notch" experienced dog that knows the ins and outs of how to hunt? You want that $1,000 plus investment trained right to produce the best dividends it can. Tromping around in cold weather all day with a dog that isn't trained right and expecting it to produce results isn't going to net alot of success. The young dog needs proper training to be successful, and so does Hibbert.

Ahhhh, Justin, the eternal optimist. :-o:hmm::D

I finally found a couple of points to agree with you on. The earth might be spinning backwards.

1. JOB is Craig Sager-esQue in his attire. AWFUL. Is he serious? At least I think to myself, there is NO WAY Sager is being serious when he wears that. With JOB, I know that isn't the case, unfortunately.

2. WE DEFINITELY NEED A BIG MAN COACH. A Patrick Ewing, Rik Smits, Zo, or Hakeem type of former player would be perfect. No doubt in my mind.

But, as always, I have to disagree with you on something. Bird did not make a mistake by extending Foster. They wanted to keep him. The issues we have with filling out our roster this summer, especially since we need to sign more bigs, even WITH Foster, led to us needing to extend someone prior to this year. I think Foster at $6M is more than reasonable. I think you need to look around the league at what some of these bigs make. Nazr Mohammed makes 6M per. Need I say more? The one thing I would have hypothetically liked to see was that we trade Foster (as an expiring) to a contender for a late first. But I think Bird and Morway made a good decision based on who they were looking at to re-sign.

PS - I loved the hunting dog analogy.

pacergod2
02-28-2009, 11:32 AM
There were also two stats that stood out to me last night.

1. Jarrett Jack's +/- last night was -24. WTF is JOB thinking? I mean Ray Allen is Ray Allen. Nobody else on our team was remotely close to -24. Rondo is WAY to fast for Jack, and Allen will make him chase, which Jack is not good at. Why didn't JOB limit Jack's minutes more (27)? Especially since Graham got a DNP. I don't understand why you don't make that adjustment much earlier in the game to limit Jack's minutes. I know Jack has been one of our better players of late, but still, Jack is not the type of player that other teams dictate their defense to him. Ray Allen is. I don't get it. Not trying to be negative.

2. On the other hand, I am used to seeing 20+ turnovers from us. We had 14 last night. I know the tempo of the game was slower than normal, but I still love seeing that stat being lower than the other team's (Boston had 15). Turnovers is a stat I pay a lot of attention to, unlike +/-. But these were two things I noticed from the box score.

This game came down to the fact that Boston was hitting their shots more than we did. Thank you Ray Allen, who I consider the best shooter in the game. Rush, should be taking some serious notes every time he plays against a player like Jesus Shuttlesworth.

idioteque
02-28-2009, 11:55 AM
There were points in this game where the Pacers looked very, very good and other times where they looked remarkably average. Brandon Rush was a microcosm of this.

TJ Ford officially drives me nuts. I realize that he is starter-caliber especially on this team, that he has great leadership skills, and that he is lightning quick. But sometimes the dude needs to remember there are four other guys on the floor helping him out. The problem with TJ is I think he makes up his mind sometimes without fully evaluating the situation and letting the play developing. He gets serious tunnel vision. The best PG's are the ones who can make things happen that weren't even possible a few seconds before they did. TJ Ford doesn't seem to be one of those types of guys. Jack can have similar problems. Travis Deiner is actually our best floor leader and innovator, the only problem with him of course is that our defense suffers immeasurably when he is out there.

There were times where Brandon Rush was very aggressive, and other times where he was very passive. Yes, 17 points looks great on the box score and maybe I am being picky, but wow, there were sequences of the game where he was just standing around the perimeter and should have had a permit to park there.

Overall the Pacers do not always play well as a cohesive unit offensively. The defense was actually not that bad, the Celtics are just too talented. The guys who usually struggle individually on defense did, but the team defense was okay.

I still think this team needs a better PG if we are going to succeed on the next level. I don't know, maybe if we had a superstar PF or C we wouldn't need one, but we're obviously still lacking in the star department too much to be an above average team.

Justin Tyme
02-28-2009, 12:03 PM
Ahhhh, Justin, the eternal optimist. :-o:hmm::D

I finally found a couple of points to agree with you on. The earth might be spinning backwards.

1. JOB is Craig Sager-esQue in his attire. AWFUL. Is he serious? At least I think to myself, there is NO WAY Sager is being serious when he wears that. With JOB, I know that isn't the case, unfortunately.

2. WE DEFINITELY NEED A BIG MAN COACH. A Patrick Ewing, Rik Smits, Zo, or Hakeem type of former player would be perfect. No doubt in my mind.

But, as always, I have to disagree with you on something. Bird did not make a mistake by extending Foster. They wanted to keep him. The issues we have with filling out our roster this summer, especially since we need to sign more bigs, even WITH Foster, led to us needing to extend someone prior to this year. I think Foster at $6M is more than reasonable. I think you need to look around the league at what some of these bigs make. Nazr Mohammed makes 6M per. Need I say more? The one thing I would have hypothetically liked to see was that we trade Foster (as an expiring) to a contender for a late first. But I think Bird and Morway made a good decision based on who they were looking at to re-sign.

PS - I loved the hunting dog analogy.


You can fill out the roster with 2nd round non-guaranteed contract players. My feeling is that Bird could have filled out the roster with an experienced big either through a trade or picking up a FA. FA in my view aren't going to be getting the salaries of the past. They will be more reasonable to adjust with todays economic climate.

The dayz of Radliff, La Frentz, Ben Wallace, and Dampier salaries to mention a few are gone. Players like Nazr Mohammed, Mikki Moore, Joe Przbyilla, Jared Jeffries, Darko, Radmanovic to name a few are overpaid and won't see those types of salaries again. Neither will Joe Smith. I believe salaries like Perkins and Scalabrine in the 3-4.5 mil range is what you'll see in the future. You think Boston is going to give the full MLE type money to Powe? I don't. I believe the teams are in the drivers seat this offseason on giving salaries. I don't see a problem with Bird filling out a roster in todays economic climate.

Foster was overpaid for what he produces, his age, and bad back issues. I still feel Bird blundered by giving Foster an extension. JMOAA


Thanz, I thought the hunting dog analogy was pretty good myself.:D

Suaveness
02-28-2009, 12:23 PM
Rush looked freaking amazing for a while out there tonight. He couldn't miss. Then he hit a wall and started to loose some confidence. We really dominated this game if it wasn't for Allen becoming unstoppable. I knew right then it was over deep down and it really depressed me. I knew we would fight back and give them a run but I knew it would be just out of reach.




Rush stopped hitting because in the second half, the Celtics started playing a lot tougher defense on him. He had a more difficult time getting off shots because of it.

And stop with the Hibbert Harrison comparisons. I know it's frustrating to watch Hibbert get so many fouls, but that doesn't mean he's as bad as Harrison. Keep in mind that in Harrison's later years, he continued to foul again and again. This is Roy's first year, so you have to expect growing pains while learning the NBA game. Don't start getting depressed on him and saying that it's a worrisome trend. Just let him figure it out; he's smart enough.

BRushWithDeath
02-28-2009, 05:52 PM
Troy, yes. Now if only we were a winning team, his deal would begin to look like a steal.


Troy will never be a starter on a winning team. Why? He allows players like Big Baby and Leon Powe to combine for 32 points.

flox
02-28-2009, 09:48 PM
Troy will never be a starter on a winning team. Why? He allows players like Big Baby and Leon Powe to combine for 32 points.

Troy Murphy > Matt Bonner. (infact Matt is a poor man's version of troy, except even slower and worse on defense, but with better range from all over the court)

I don't think you can say he would never be a starter.

MyFavMartin
02-28-2009, 10:38 PM
When Roy plays well, we win games.

danman
02-28-2009, 11:46 PM
Troy will never be a starter on a winning team. Why? He allows players like Big Baby and Leon Powe to combine for 32 points.

There's no question that the biggest Pacer need is a big man who can really play defense and run the floor. Troy is horrible defensively. Roy gets a pass because he's a rookie, but he's bad. Jeff is adequate... not as quick as he once was, but he anticipates. Unfortunately, shot blocking is not part of the package, so his help D is limited.

Between Rasho and Troy, we've got two guys who simply cannot move their feet. Like, zero. Roy is nearly as slow, and he's still clueless. With Rasho, Troy, and Jeff, we've got zero shotblocking intimidation.

Perhaps we can't get a guy that's enough to put Troy on the bench, but we need a defensive specialist off the bench at least. It would help sooooooo much.

vnzla81
03-01-2009, 07:00 PM
Troy Murphy > Matt Bonner. (infact Matt is a poor man's version of troy, except even slower and worse on defense, but with better range from all over the court)

I don't think you can say he would never be a starter.

Escalabrine reminds me of Troy Murphy also.

Dr. Hibbert
03-01-2009, 08:34 PM
Why is everyone up in arms about Hibbert-Harrison comparisons? No one is saying they're the same guy. One was a troubled NBA player, the other is a young guy who by all accounts appears to have his head on straight. The comparisons stem from their propensity to lead the league in fouls due to an inability to execute some of the basic big man fundamentals (though honestly, Hibbert's fouls have been more BS than Harrison's ever were.) Those aren't unfair comparisons to draw. In fact, they tend to point to a common pattern: true athletic centers for the Pacers tend to have problems with fundamentals. Is this coaching? I'll leave that up to you to decide.

Just shrugging it off and saying it will get better...well, I guarantee whoever is saying that said the same about Harrison. It's certainly not a lack of talent on behalf of these guys, I think it's an inability on behalf of the last few coaching staffs to really effectively teach fundamentals to the bigs - though obviously, JOB's staff has had less time with Hibbert than Carlisle's staff ever had with Harrison.

Unclebuck
03-02-2009, 05:22 PM
I don't think people are afraid that Hibbert will become like Harrison, but it's hard to ignore the fouling problems that they both have/had. The way the both thought/think they can block every single shot. The way the both lead/led the league fouls per minute.

Well then compare him to Rik Smits then. Young big guys are always getting into foul trouble - just the way of life in the NBA.

My point is Harrison getting into foul trouble was maybe number 56 on his list of problems.