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View Full Version : Simmons: Welcome to the No Benjamins Association



idioteque
02-27-2009, 05:11 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/090227
Bill Simmons
ESPN

This is a long read and I am still going through it. I will post my thoughts later, but wow, this article seems to be really on point. Any other thoughts?

count55
02-27-2009, 05:26 PM
He is on point, but he's I believe wrong about the about this:


You need an owner who purchased his team because he was worth a ton of money ON PAPER only now, he's worth significantly less and might even be worth $10 for all we know. (Consensus candidates for this list: Phoenix, Hijack City, Jersey, Memphis, Indiana, Atlanta, Milwaukee, Charlotte and, surprisingly, Sacramento and Cleveland.)

From everything I've seen and been told, the Simons are among the most substantial of owners, financially. The problem isn't so much that their personal fortunes have taken a hit, rather it's that the next generation, specifically, David, doesn't want to own the Pacers.

If Herb and Mel were 10-15 years younger, the Pacers would be exponentially more stable.

I'm surprised also about the higher individual salary and softer cap, but I agree with the shortening of contracts, and I'm convinced of a lockout, as well.

Anthem
02-27-2009, 05:48 PM
Great article, especially point #4. Makes Stern's statements seem more ominous, no?

rexnom
02-27-2009, 06:35 PM
http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/showpost.php?p=857901&postcount=15

It's ok, I'm used to people ignoring me. :(

idioteque
02-27-2009, 07:03 PM
http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/showpost.php?p=857901&postcount=15

It's ok, I'm used to people ignoring me. :(

Now you know how GW basketball feels. I actually have SEASON TICKETS to that.

Brad8888
02-27-2009, 07:04 PM
Unbelievably enlightening article. A very big thanks to both rexnom and dcpacersfan for posting the link to it. This potentially explains many of the decisions we are seeing the Pacers making both from a personnel / player standpoint, as well as their hardnosed attitude with existing season ticket holders about the renewals.

If their revenue figures continue to drop, they have negotiating power with the taxpayers / CIB to get favorable treatment for better economic times that hopefully be in place after the likely lockout period coming up. They also can negotiate better with their own players and staff due to the low revenue to lower their costs for better times in the future because the same pressures are facing the entirety of professional sports at this time and people can't simply go elsewhere to get better pay. If the negotiations fail on these fronts, who cares? Just move the franchise or disband it entirely and let those players go through a dispersal draft and come back later through a new ownership group, approved by the league, in a different city that is more than happy to take whatever it can get, regardless of the quality of the players on the roster after an expansion draft would occur.

Wouldn't be surprised to see him magically not provide NBA coverage any more. He is being a blatant non-believer of the official NBA line, who happens to be vocal, articulate, and likely mostly a truth teller. In today's world, that is a nearly deadly combination for careers in media.

idioteque
02-27-2009, 07:13 PM
It doesn't surprise me, especially now, that the Pacers didn't utilize their expirings at the trade deadline now. I made a stupid comment on this board recently that the Pacers just shedding salary and not making any moves would be Sterling-esque, but guess what: we're in a league full of Donald Sterlings right now. It is pretty amazing as to how bad things really are.

We are lucky that we signed Danny when we did before the economy was looking especially terrible. Not only could he get probably way more money right now, but the Pacers may not have thought it was expedient at all to sign him even in 60 million dollar territory. The reason that it actually did happen may be because the Simons knew that we had serious money coming off of the books in any event, which just makes keeping Marquis around through the Club Rio era and getting Nesto, a pretty affordable TJ Ford, and a cheap but good prospect in Hibbert for an overpriced albatross that can't help anyone win in JO looking pretty quite damn appealing right now. Actually the JO trade looks even more brilliant each day. And what does Toronto have to even show for it? A declining Shawn Marion whom I believe averages under 15 a game, or did when he was traded to Toronto. Well, at least he expires soon, too.

Bball
02-27-2009, 07:32 PM
http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/showpost.php?p=857901&postcount=15

It's ok, I'm used to people ignoring me. :(

Ignored?

I read it because of the earlier link so kudos to you from me! :)

This thread was already old news thanks to that.

-Bball

aceace
02-27-2009, 11:14 PM
The Pacers being able to drop significant salary next year will certainly help. I expect us to draft a SG to play behind Rush. I expect we will say goodbye to Jack, along with Daniels,Rasho and Maceo. Hopefully Dun will play next year. I do wonder about Simons financial picture. Owning many shopping malls, stores are closing, filing bankruptcy and that has to be hard on their income picture. I gasped when I heard Stern was taking out a 175M loan for some teams. I'm sure some of it will go to the Pacers and it will translate to Pacers having a reduced payroll. Loan will probably be paid back out of future tv money.... but what do I know.

Taterhead
02-28-2009, 02:59 PM
Very interesting read. And it brings up some thoughts on this.

First off, I have been hearing for a long time that money is ruining sports from my father, a pacers fan since the beginning. And when I was younger I thought to myself that he was insane. I mean guys are getting rich, we are seeing games for free all the time, so what the hell is he talking about? But over the last 5 years in particular I have realized what exactly he meant. So in my mind, there is little reason to feel the sky is falling. I think sports as a whole needed this shock to the system. The reality is the money was out of control, and if this makes teams live within their means so to speak, then great. If it puts them in position to finally take a stand against the very powerful players union, then so be it. There is no reason in the world for some of these players in the NBA to be making as much as they are.

Teams should be a little more frugal with their money in the future and that is great for the sport, even though it's not great for guys like Troy Murphy, Mike Dunleavy and Austin Croshere. And as far as the Pacers, I think they are actually in a better position than most to survive this. Their salary is starting to dramatically go down at the right time. They have an all star that is making a salary more along the lines of what it should be. They have great owners with deep pockets. They have the best arena in the league as well, and a great basketball state around them. They should be able to rekindle the enthusiasm as this all starts to get better, and the opportunity to do it right and reap the benefits. And the state of the economy is as much a reason not to move outta town as it is to do so I believe.

In the end I feel the same way about this economy and it's affect on sports as I do it's affect on our society. Maybe it's something we can all just learn from and better ourselves. Americans in general have been a little spoiled and things have gotten way out of control. I was watching Bill Maher last night and I know he is a very polarizing figure but he brought up something that I found very insightful to the root of our nations overall problem. People are actually buying fart sounds for their IPhones. That's right, they are paying money so their phone will fart. And that, as stupid as it is, in a way give some credence to my feelings on this country, and it's sporting leagues. Americans, not just their athletes, have been turning into spoiled children for quite awhile now. You see it in the tantrums our most blessed pro athletes throw, all the way down to what the average person spends their money on. And something to make you stop and take notice of that isn't the worst thing that can happen. I for one don't fear the future. It actually excites me that one day maybe my children will enjoy a better country and better sports because of all this. Because I was actually starting to shutter at the thought of where the country and it's sporting leagues would be in 20 more years. We need this and our sports do too JMO.

Peter_sixtyftsixin
02-28-2009, 03:22 PM
Very interesting read. And it brings up some thoughts on this.

First off, I have been hearing for a long time that money is ruining sports from my father, a pacers fan since the beginning. And when I was younger I thought to myself that he was insane. I mean guys are getting rich, we are seeing games for free all the time, so what the hell is he talking about? But over the last 5 years in particular I have realized what exactly he meant. So in my mind, there is little reason to feel the sky is falling. I think sports as a whole needed this shock to the system. The reality is the money was out of control, and if this makes teams live within their means so to speak, then great. If it puts them in position to finally take a stand against the very powerful players union, then so be it. There is no reason in the world for some of these players in the NBA to be making as much as they are.

Teams should be a little more frugal with their money in the future and that is great for the sport, even though it's not great for guys like Troy Murphy, Mike Dunleavy and Austin Croshere. And as far as the Pacers, I think they are actually in a better position than most to survive this. Their salary is starting to dramatically go down at the right time. They have an all star that is making a salary more along the lines of what it should be. They have great owners with deep pockets. They have the best arena in the league as well, and a great basketball state around them. They should be able to rekindle the enthusiasm as this all starts to get better, and the opportunity to do it right and reap the benefits. And the state of the economy is as much a reason not to move outta town as it is to do so I believe.

In the end I feel the same way about this economy and it's affect on sports as I do it's affect on our society. Maybe it's something we can all just learn from and better ourselves. Americans in general have been a little spoiled and things have gotten way out of control. I was watching Bill Maher last night and I know he is a very polarizing figure but he brought up something that I found very insightful to the root of our nations overall problem. People are actually buying fart sounds for their IPhones. That's right, they are paying money so their phone will fart. And that, as stupid as it is, in a way give some credence to my feelings on this country, and it's sporting leagues. Americans, not just their athletes, have been turning into spoiled children for quite awhile now. You see it in the tantrums our most blessed pro athletes throw, all the way down to what the average person spends their money on. And something to make you stop and take notice of that isn't the worst thing that can happen. I for one don't fear the future. It actually excites me that one day maybe my children will enjoy a better country and better sports because of all this. Because I was actually starting to shutter at the thought of where the country and it's sporting leagues would be in 20 more years. We need this and our sports do too JMO.

I really liked this. Great post.

rexnom
02-28-2009, 03:43 PM
Unbelievably enlightening article. A very big thanks to both rexnom and dcpacersfan for posting the link to it. This potentially explains many of the decisions we are seeing the Pacers making both from a personnel / player standpoint, as well as their hardnosed attitude with existing season ticket holders about the renewals.



Ignored?

I read it because of the earlier link so kudos to you from me! :)

This thread was already old news thanks to that.

-Bball
That's a Tommy point for Brad and Bball!

Now you know how GW basketball feels. I actually have SEASON TICKETS to that.
GW has a basketball team? ;)

Yeah, I know what you mean.

rexnom
02-28-2009, 03:48 PM
Very interesting read. And it brings up some thoughts on this.

First off, I have been hearing for a long time that money is ruining sports from my father, a pacers fan since the beginning. And when I was younger I thought to myself that he was insane. I mean guys are getting rich, we are seeing games for free all the time, so what the hell is he talking about? But over the last 5 years in particular I have realized what exactly he meant. So in my mind, there is little reason to feel the sky is falling. I think sports as a whole needed this shock to the system. The reality is the money was out of control, and if this makes teams live within their means so to speak, then great. If it puts them in position to finally take a stand against the very powerful players union, then so be it. There is no reason in the world for some of these players in the NBA to be making as much as they are.

Teams should be a little more frugal with their money in the future and that is great for the sport, even though it's not great for guys like Troy Murphy, Mike Dunleavy and Austin Croshere. And as far as the Pacers, I think they are actually in a better position than most to survive this. Their salary is starting to dramatically go down at the right time. They have an all star that is making a salary more along the lines of what it should be. They have great owners with deep pockets. They have the best arena in the league as well, and a great basketball state around them. They should be able to rekindle the enthusiasm as this all starts to get better, and the opportunity to do it right and reap the benefits. And the state of the economy is as much a reason not to move outta town as it is to do so I believe.

In the end I feel the same way about this economy and it's affect on sports as I do it's affect on our society. Maybe it's something we can all just learn from and better ourselves. Americans in general have been a little spoiled and things have gotten way out of control. I was watching Bill Maher last night and I know he is a very polarizing figure but he brought up something that I found very insightful to the root of our nations overall problem. People are actually buying fart sounds for their IPhones. That's right, they are paying money so their phone will fart. And that, as stupid as it is, in a way give some credence to my feelings on this country, and it's sporting leagues. Americans, not just their athletes, have been turning into spoiled children for quite awhile now. You see it in the tantrums our most blessed pro athletes throw, all the way down to what the average person spends their money on. And something to make you stop and take notice of that isn't the worst thing that can happen. I for one don't fear the future. It actually excites me that one day maybe my children will enjoy a better country and better sports because of all this. Because I was actually starting to shutter at the thought of where the country and it's sporting leagues would be in 20 more years. We need this and our sports do too JMO.
I just think it's ridiculous that I'm churning out 10 bucks for awful chicken fingers at a Wizards game while they are paying a guy 20 mil/year and he doesn't even go to the games (Gilbert Arenas). Meanwhile, down the street, the President put a max salary on company executives but every active player of the Wizards roster makes more than that max. Just doesn't make any sense to me. If they paid these guys 500K/year like executives then maybe I could pay market price for my chicken fingers.

Los Angeles
02-28-2009, 04:28 PM
I just think it's ridiculous that I'm churning out 10 bucks for awful chicken fingers at a Wizards game while they are paying a guy 20 mil/year and he doesn't even go to the games (Gilbert Arenas). Meanwhile, down the street, the President put a max salary on company executives but every active player of the Wizards roster makes more than that max. Just doesn't make any sense to me. If they paid these guys 500K/year like executives then maybe I could pay market price for my chicken fingers.

This will all sort itself out.

idioteque
02-28-2009, 08:07 PM
I just think it's ridiculous that I'm churning out 10 bucks for awful chicken fingers at a Wizards game while they are paying a guy 20 mil/year and he doesn't even go to the games (Gilbert Arenas). Meanwhile, down the street, the President put a max salary on company executives but every active player of the Wizards roster makes more than that max. Just doesn't make any sense to me. If they paid these guys 500K/year like executives then maybe I could pay market price for my chicken fingers.

Point taken, but have you ever experienced concession stands more terrible than those of the Verizon Center? I sure haven't, hell I'd rather eat a Smith Center hot dog.

mcampbellarch
03-01-2009, 04:15 AM
Thanks for link. Good read and insightful comments from the gallery. Generally, I think there are a lot of opportunities to reinvent rather than shore up the establishment. If it is unrealistic for basketball to do anything other than reinvent, good. Necessity is the mother of invention, but desperation is just a mother.

LG33
03-01-2009, 05:04 PM
Point taken, but have you ever experienced concession stands more terrible than those of the Verizon Center? I sure haven't, hell I'd rather eat a Smith Center hot dog.

Halftime + half smoke = full stomach and full wallet