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View Full Version : So... we don't do postgame threads any more? Pacers won, by the way.



Anthem
02-25-2009, 11:07 PM
I guess all the action is in the game thread? Seems weird to me.

Anybody attend first-hand and want to share their impressions?

ReginaldWayne
02-25-2009, 11:09 PM
haha, it seems like we dont do em when we beat bad teams. There wasnt one either for the Wolves game.

Dr. Hibbert
02-25-2009, 11:11 PM
First game I've watched where I've really been impressed with Brandon Rush. He really took over in the third. When he's on, the potential is easy to see - rangy, explosive player who should have a good deal of prowess on both ends of the floor. He drove the lane with ease a couple times tonight, hit some treys and defended well. Nobody's asking the dude to be the next Reggie, he just needs to contribute in the future, and I really hope he grows into a guy who can defend well and create shot opportunities when needed.

PacersRule
02-25-2009, 11:16 PM
I was EXTREMELY impressed with Rush's defense tonight. It's hard to believe a rookie can put up that kind of defense. Good game Rush!

BPump33
02-25-2009, 11:18 PM
Just got back from the game....

UB, Foster played much better tonight. I'm still not sure we didn't miss an opportunity to get some value out of him, but he did play much better tonight. Hopefully he continues to play like this.

BRush played great in the third quarter. Defense was good and he had a swagger about him on offense. I can't wait until his confidence is to the point that he always plays like that.


Would have liked to have seen Diener more, but I won't even try to understand JOB's rotations b/c I never will.

I'll take the victory.

Midcoasted
02-25-2009, 11:22 PM
I was EXTREMELY impressed with Rush's defense tonight. It's hard to believe a rookie can put up that kind of defense. Good game Rush!

He is the best individual defender on the team. I said this when we drafted him and the announcers gave it some validity tonight. That is why i scratched my head when JOB pulled him for defensive problems. Kinda like Roy too. Roy just gets too many ticky tacky fouls. I pratiucarly don't like the way the refs call fouls on him half the time. I think there are way too many phantom calls. I'm sick of guys initiating that contact and the whistle going the other way. This is my biggest problem with the NBA.

Bottom line is that this team will compete every night no matter who we have on the floor. Also, the day will come when we look back on the 2008 draft and know it was the best draft we've ever had. I've made some bold predicitons this year, about Rookie of the Year, 50 wins etc. but I see it in this teams core. We really are "building for the future" and the future looks bright. Now if we could somehow make the playoffs, compete, and still get another couple good players though the draft/FA this year, we will be coming back next year pushing 45-50 games.

Firing JOB could be the answer but it also could put us out of contention for even longer.

Let's just keep finding ways to win and make the playoffs somehow. Then maybe we have to make some trades, but next years draft is just as important to this years. Then two years from now we could be competing for a title again.

Miller4ever
02-25-2009, 11:31 PM
i dont get you guys.. i dont understand why you guys keep talking about fosters play or comparing if he played better than last game or whatever... whoever could have bad days... but hes one of the few pacers that ive ever seen.. that breaks his *** on the court for our team every single time that hes on the floor..

BPump33
02-25-2009, 11:35 PM
i dont get you guys.. i dont understand why you guys keep talking about fosters play or comparing if he played better than last game or whatever... whoever could have bad days... but hes one of the few pacers that ive ever seen.. that breaks his *** on the court for our team every single time that hes on the floor..

I talked about that b/c I ripped him for playing like hell in NY.......I'm very aware of players having bad games, but this is the best game I've seen Jeff play in weeks so I made a point of it. It's not hard to understand.

I know Jeff has always busted his *ss, but lately that spark hasn't been there probably due to injury. It was nice to see it back tonight.

Unclebuck
02-25-2009, 11:35 PM
postgame threads aren't too popular when the Pacers win.

Nice block by Jeff, although he was gased out there. probably shouldn't be playing.

Ford was huge tonight also - didn't they say the Pacers are 2-6 when TJ doesn't play??

MyFavMartin
02-25-2009, 11:55 PM
Actually I thought Ford's TOs late in the game were keeping Memphis in it.

ReginaldWayne
02-26-2009, 12:19 AM
yea theyre 2 - 6 when he sits, i was surprised when i heard that actually.

ReginaldWayne
02-26-2009, 12:21 AM
looking ahead, does ne1 know of Garnett is playing sunday ?

Bball
02-26-2009, 12:24 AM
Actually I thought Ford's TOs late in the game were keeping Memphis in it.

Maybe UB meant he was huge for both teams? He didn't really specify that...

-Bball

;)

tfarks
02-26-2009, 12:27 AM
Watching Rush in the 3rd quarter I was impressed. I've been hoping and hoping he would get more time. Hell, my first thread was Free Brandon Rush. I knew the injuries would give him his time to shine. I hope he can display a level of consistency. The Pacers can have a much different look to them next year with improved health and the improvement Hibbert and Rush can give to the team in bigger roles. Health is a crapshoot, so let's get these rookies in gear.

Naptown_Seth
02-26-2009, 01:30 AM
I guess all the action is in the game thread? Seems weird to me.

Anybody attend first-hand and want to share their impressions?
Jack on Conley, brutal to watch them lose on the first step over and over.

Quis vs Gay - I'd call that even, which tells me the Pacers should be working on keeping Quis rather than trying to "clear cap space". Gay had his moments on Quis, but it went the other way too. Plus how many times did Quis slip over to help someone else out and disrupt a dribble or shot. He had one block on Mayo from behind that comes to mind and he stepped over to help Foster trap someone on the baseline another time only to watch the deflection get picked up by Memphis as other guys stood and watched.

Ford had a nice shooting game which helped.

Gasol owned the Pacers front line. It was bad watching him get after Murphy and Hibbert, and embarrassing when it was Rasho.

Good to see Rush have a healthier offensive outing. I love his game but reality is that he'll need to get to a solid 10 ppg level if he wants to keep getting PT from Jim. I did like it that JOB put him back in late which tells me he's realized that Rush really is one of his top defenders and a good crunch time player.

Memphis has a massive gap between their top talent and the rest of the roster. There's Mayo, Gay, Gasol and Conley and then a bunch of various fillers and Star Trek red shirts.

The refs let it go physical both ways. I saw and heard Foster get nothing but arm on one fastbreak but no whistle. Surprised Memphis didn't complain more. Actually neither team said much. One ref was talking to Rasho about his bashed nose while someone shot FTs and basically even said to Gasol "you fouled him", indicating that the play where Marc "put a move on him" to get the dunk was really created by smashing him and going by him while he was stunned. So I'm thinking that maybe rather than telling him later he could have blown his whistle instead. But what do I know.


I got to move from row 1A to row 1, Sign Guy Matt's normal seat. w00t. Didn't take the camera though, sorry. Just wasn't feeling up to dealing with it tonight.


Gnome was over in 15 with Hicks about 5 rows up (upgraded). He called me in the 2nd half and had me come over to let me hear his rant of the night (Hicks was burned out on listening to it by this point :D )...."we could have had Gasol with the Stanko pick, he was still on the board". Brutal.

We got over it by starting a section-wide "Darko, worst #2 pick ever" discussion. Everyone seemed to be enjoying that.

Naptown_Seth
02-26-2009, 01:35 AM
I talked about that b/c I ripped him for playing like hell in NY.......I'm very aware of players having bad games, but this is the best game I've seen Jeff play in weeks so I made a point of it. It's not hard to understand.

I know Jeff has always busted his *ss, but lately that spark hasn't been there probably due to injury. It was nice to see it back tonight.
Really? He had his moments but I thought he was having trouble getting things synched up most of the night. He was visibly and audibly frustrated a good portion of the night.

It was no "good azz defense", but I enjoyed his "he was grabbing my f****n arm" rant right after he hip checked whomever it was totally off the court. It's like "dude, um, save the complaining for something a little less blatent". :-p

I love Jeff and his effort is unquestionable, I just thought he never could get into the flow of the game. That blocked shot was a monster though, very impressive.


Rush

That is why i scratched my head when JOB pulled him for defensive problems
Yep, me too. I think Quis is a better defender slightly, but I have Rush as #2. He's really a smart defender, he defends plays in a way that leaves him in good position to recover. He helps without having to sell out, he'll leave and disrupt the play when his man doesn't keep him honest. He looks to block out when a shot goes up, he constantly is looking (literally) for ways to impact plays at both ends. Some guys take plays off to rest away from the ball, Rush isn't comfortable with that. He hasn't always known what to do to help in this system, but you can see him trying to move into better spaces and things like that.

duke dynamite
02-26-2009, 01:39 AM
Jeff did have a good game. He came through during a tough time.

The game ball is up.

duke dynamite
02-26-2009, 01:41 AM
Actually I thought Ford's TOs late in the game were keeping Memphis in it.
TJ wasn't the only one that committed the turnovers. Some of his may have been key to the Griz coming back, but during the whole game there were some costly mistakes.

D-BONE
02-26-2009, 05:57 AM
Liked Quis and Rush a lot. Foster had a few timely plays. Ford and Jack were solid on offense, nothing to get excited about on D, and had their usual cadre of turnovers that make one grimace as if in excruciating pain.

I'll take the victory. So on the post game show Frank Vogel stated how underrated a defender TJ Ford is. He explained that TJ's speed and quickness really disrupted the opposition. (I'm obviously paraphrasing).

Just curious if anyone else saw the interview and what reaction is. Personally, I'm not convinced. I think TJ might have the capacity to do that, but I don't see it regularly. That sounds more like the mental image I had of TJ's potential to impact our defense when I found out we got him. I just don't think he's lived up to that rep in any consistent way. Am I that far off?

The more I see the team without its top guys, the more it reminds me how much I appreciate the consistent effort. Not that it wasn't there when DG and MDJ were playing. However, in a way it's good to get the rookies more minutes and put other guys in more primary production roles to see what they really have to evaluate their status moving forward.

That said, the conclusion I'm coming to is it's a shame it appears Quis won't be retained. Guy's played really well on both ends. Will never have the long range shot, but other than that he's solid. Also if I had a priority for which players' contracts we could got out from underneath of in an ideal world it would be MDJ, TJ, Foster probably in that order.

BPump33
02-26-2009, 09:42 AM
Really? He had his moments but I thought he was having trouble getting things synched up most of the night. He was visibly and audibly frustrated a good portion of the night.

It was no "good azz defense", but I enjoyed his "he was grabbing my f****n arm" rant right after he hip checked whomever it was totally off the court. It's like "dude, um, save the complaining for something a little less blatent". :-p

I love Jeff and his effort is unquestionable, I just thought he never could get into the flow of the game. That blocked shot was a monster though, very impressive.




I thought compared to the NY game he looked 50X better. I thought he looked in the flow of the game. The baseline "jumper" he hit, the block and then the offensive board save were all plays that I have grown used to from Jeff and really appreciate. Well, the "jumper" is a nice added bonus.

Then again, you would definitely get more of a "flow of the game" feeling from courtside than I did up in the balcony. :D

Either way, I thought he played much better than NY and I hope as he gets healthier he gets back to the Fiesty we all know and love.

Oh, and I always enjoy a good Foster hip check.

BPump33
02-26-2009, 09:46 AM
I almost forgot, the left-handed "finger roll-ish" layup that Quis had in the fourth quarter was beautiful. I coudn't tell from the balcony whether it was a true finger roll or not, but it sure was pretty.

Justin Tyme
02-26-2009, 10:09 AM
Gnome was over in 15 with Hicks about 5 rows up (upgraded). He called me in the 2nd half and had me come over to let me hear his rant of the night (Hicks was burned out on listening to it by this point :D )...."we could have had Gasol with the Stanko pick, he was still on the board". Brutal.



I pointed that out almost 2 months ago in one of my BIRD rants about Bird's lack of knowledge of talent when drafting players. IIRC, I said something to the effect that he missed drafting the wrong Euro, and should have drafted Gasol over Stanko.

With Bird giving Foster a 2 year extension, it gives Stanko another 2 years to hone his skills before coming to the Pacers to take Foster's place!:D

I still stand by my feeling Bird doesn't know talent when it comes to drafting. An example is in 06 the Pacers had the 15th pick in the 2nd round... #45. Bird picked Alex Johnson, now there is a common household name, and then traded him and 2-2nd round picks for James "Flight" White when he could have picked Paul Milsap or Leon Powe. Both were drafted after the Pacers pick at #45 with Milsap at #47 and Powe at #49. This is the same Milsap so many on this board want now at PF.

That same 06 draft the Pacers needed a PG, and Bird drafted the infamous Shawne Williams at #17 passing on Rondo. I'm sure Rondo with his championship ring appreciates Bird's decision. JMOAA

Jonathan
02-26-2009, 10:21 AM
Ford is a score first PG. I have no problem with that. My problem is this. This is the second game (Minn) I have seen him miss key free throws with seconds left on the court.
Brandon Rush got hot and Murphy quit getting him the ball in the third quater. Marquis Daniels is becoming a go to guy.

Justin Tyme
02-26-2009, 10:32 AM
postgame threads aren't too popular when the Pacers win.

Nice block by Jeff, although he was gased out there. probably shouldn't be playing.

Ford was huge tonight also - didn't they say the Pacers are 2-6 when TJ doesn't play??


Personally, I look forward to all post game threads... win or lose.


The Pacers record stands currently at 25-35 with 60 games having been played. That means Ford has not played in 1 out of every 6 losses by the Pacers or 29 losses when Ford has played. That shows me that the Pacers are 2-6 when Ford is out to be a very deceiving statement. It implys Ford's absence makes a real difference in the Pacers losses when it doesn't. The Pacers are losing anyway, 5 out of every 6 games he plays in when they lose.

Ford is a nice PG with speed and the ability to penetrate, but he so often penrtrates with no place to go or someone to pass. He creates turn overs b/c of this, and with his ball handling skills. IMO, as a PG Ford doesn't make other players better for the 8 mil salary he's paid. I'd much rather have Ramon Sessions, who will be a RFA, at 4-5 mil than Ford w/o having to worry about Ford's health issue.

Unclebuck
02-26-2009, 10:40 AM
The Pacers record stands currently at 25-35 with 60 games having been played. That means Ford has not played in 1 out of every 6 losses by the Pacers or 29 losses when Ford has played. That shows me that the Pacers are 2-6 when Ford is out to be a very deceiving statement. It implys Ford's absence makes a real difference in the Pacers losses when it doesn't. The Pacers are losing anyway, 5 out of every 6 games he plays in when they lose.

Ford is a nice PG with speed and the ability to penetrate, but he so often penrtrates with no place to go or someone to pass. He creates turn overs b/c of this, and with his ball handling skills. IMO, as a PG Ford doesn't make other players better for the 8 mil salary he's paid. I'd much rather have Ramon Sessions, who will be a RFA, at 4-5 mil than Ford w/o having to worry about Ford's health issue.



I think Ford makes a huge difference especially late in games when it is tough to score and he is pretty good at creating a shot.

BRushWithDeath
02-26-2009, 11:05 AM
I thought compared to the NY game he looked 50X better. I thought he looked in the flow of the game. The baseline "jumper" he hit, the block and then the offensive board save were all plays that I have grown used to from Jeff and really appreciate. Well, the "jumper" is a nice added bonus.

Then again, you would definitely get more of a "flow of the game" feeling from courtside than I did up in the balcony. :D

Either way, I thought he played much better than NY and I hope as he gets healthier he gets back to the Fiesty we all know and love.

Oh, and I always enjoy a good Foster hip check.


Compared to the NY game he could have sat at center court picking his nose the whole game and been about 30x better.

He made a couple of nice plays. The Rudy Gay block was a very smart play. He hit a jumper which surprised the hell out of me. But overall, I was less than impressed.

He's been laboring up and down the court since he came back. He just looks injured to me. He can't move like he used to and most of his game is based on movement and the ability to be in the right place at the right time. He probably ought to shut it down until he's healthy. If he's healthy now, then we're in a lot of trouble for the next 3 years.

Major Cold
02-26-2009, 11:13 AM
To me "a lot of trouble" is having your players punching fans. :)

BillS
02-26-2009, 11:24 AM
My problem with Ford is that from the point he puts his head down and starts forward he locks into what he is going to do and can't change it. Late in the game, Memphis was bringing guys into his path and making him lose his rhythm, then putting arms into his "emergency" passing lanes.

Jack may not have the speed but I am beginning to appreciate that he at least can change his mind.

Given that, I think all of them need to go to a remedial ball-handling camp. Yes, Memphis was very active in the hands department but there were far too many times the ball was being handled off-balance, away from the body, or onto the legs. And passing, good Lord, is there a worse passing team than us - not just the pick-offs but the complete inability to get the ball to someone when they are in a position to do something with it rather than having to take a second to get control?

On a positive note I agree with everyone that Rush had very valuable playing time last night. He started getting some confidence in his shot and best of all the confidence JOB showed in his defense has got to be a major boost.

BPump33
02-26-2009, 11:25 AM
He's been laboring up and down the court since he came back. He just looks injured to me. He can't move like he used to and most of his game is based on movement and the ability to be in the right place at the right time. He probably ought to shut it down until he's healthy. If he's healthy now, then we're in a lot of trouble for the next 3 years.

I didn't think he was laboring as bad last night, but as a whole I pretty much agree with you. I could be wrong about the laboring, I just coudn't really tell. I would like to see him shut it down to get completely healthy.

Justin Tyme
02-26-2009, 11:47 AM
we're in a lot of trouble for the next 3 years.


NO next 3 years.
Foster only signed a 2 year extension, so his contract is only through 2010-2011. Still it was a poor decision on Bird's part not to wait until the end of the season to see how he had played this season, plus I don't see any team giving him 6 mil per year that Bird gave him. IMO, Bird cost the Simons 2-3 mil by signing Foster when he did. Not to mention losing Foster's expiring as a tool that could have been used in many other ways.

The money could have allowed the Pacers to pick up Daniels team option, used to sign Jack, used to have made a trade at the trade deadline, or go after a FA like Sessions, Charlie V, etc. Bottom line it was a POOR decision by Bird!!

BPump33
02-26-2009, 11:48 AM
I don't think Danny has been with the team since the injury. Is he just staying off the foot? Has anybody heard anything?

Dr. Goldfoot
02-26-2009, 12:00 PM
My problem with Ford is that from the point he puts his head down and starts forward he locks into what he is going to do and can't change it.

I've noticed this too. Something else I've noticed is he often makes awkward passes. The kind where he makes a last second bullet pass to a guy with questionable handles from a foot away. I don't know if it's 75% of the time or .0075% of the time but it's something I've noticed.

Just an observation...

Dr. Goldfoot
02-26-2009, 12:07 PM
He still brings alot to the table and his three point shot has been a nice surprise.

OakMoses
02-26-2009, 12:07 PM
The more I see the team without its top guys, the more it reminds me how much I appreciate the consistent effort. Not that it wasn't there when DG and MDJ were playing. However, in a way it's good to get the rookies more minutes and put other guys in more primary production roles to see what they really have to evaluate their status moving forward.

That said, the conclusion I'm coming to is it's a shame it appears Quis won't be retained. Guy's played really well on both ends. Will never have the long range shot, but other than that he's solid. Also if I had a priority for which players' contracts we could got out from underneath of in an ideal world it would be MDJ, TJ, Foster probably in that order.

When you compare effort now to effort when we had Dunleavy and Granger, you've got to consider health. Dunleavy was never fully healthy this season and, even when he had good games, was never as good as he was last year. Granger wasn't healthy for weeks prior to his injury, which I'd guess was caused by playing with the hurt knee for so long. I understand what you're saying about watching the current guys play, but I really think that Dun and Granger are two guys who leave whatever they've got in them on the floor every night. The problem is that we haven't seen them with that much in the tank to give for quite a while.

I'm a bit torn about 'Quis being here or not next season. I like the way he plays when he's healthy, but we need to remember that he's nearly as injury prone as Tinsley. While he's been playing great lately, he plays some real stinkers, usually when he's trying to play hurt. In these situations, his defense is usually the first thing that goes.

I think there's still a chance 'Quis could be around next season, but it will likely be at the expense of Jack if it happens. If we were to get a PG in the draft (like Brandon Jennings or Tyreke Evans) I could see us letting Jack walk and trying to work on something with 'Quis. It helps that we don't have to pick up his option until after the draft. Also, we could tell him we're not picking up his option and hand him an offer sheet (maybe for about 3 years starting at $5 million) and let him know that we still want him around.

Ultimately, I think one of 'Quis, Jack, or Dunleavy has to go before next season, just to break up the logjam.

As for the game, I only got to watch the first 18 minutes. Roy had the most impressive block I've seen from him when Gay tried to dunk on him.

I didn't get to see the 3rd, and I'm mad as hell about it. I love it when Rush makes shots. I'm as close to a fanboy for Rush as I've ever been about any player since Dale. Who was guarding him during the 3rd? Was it Mayo, because if so, he's a very good defender and it makes Rush's scoring even more impressive.

Peter_sixtyftsixin
02-26-2009, 12:15 PM
Anybody attend first-hand and want to share their impressions?

Umm...the guy behind me was being an ***hat. First, when his wife asked who the guy was with the high socks he replied, "That's Travis Diener. He sucks." And I promise you group of strangers that I post with, I turned around and almost let him have it. I was raging.

Then when a woman won an autographed Murphy jersey he went, "Oh...wow" sarcastically. Apparently nothing pleased him, and he yelled "Skeet, skeet, skeet" every time the Pacemates came out.

If I wasn't a pacifist, I would have choked him.

pacerfreak
02-26-2009, 12:34 PM
Anybody think Roy got hosed on three of his five fouls?

Jonathan
02-26-2009, 12:41 PM
Anybody think Roy got hosed on three of his five fouls?

Roy got pushed around by Gasol. Rasho played him more physical than Roy. Roy still has a way to go on Defense. He does have an excellent assortment of post moves. I did notice in the first few possessions of this game our offense looked to get Roy touches the same way the Pacers used to look for Smits ealy in games.

OakMoses
02-26-2009, 12:42 PM
Anybody think Roy got hosed on three of his five fouls?

I only saw the first three, and the third one was stupid enough that it should count at least double.

Thesterovic
02-26-2009, 04:31 PM
What about Jack? He did beautiful. I think he could be the best PG off the bench next year.

I thought I was watching NBA 2K9 on the PS2 watching the Grizzlies miss all of those layups.

I hope we would keep Quisy. He is so good, and he's been carrying us for a while.

I talked on 1070 about the chances of us getting someone like Stoudamire, Chandler, Bass, or even Willcox. I wanted a percent chance, but he pretty much just pointed out the obvious and said that we were definently going to try to make the move.

pacergod2
02-26-2009, 05:11 PM
NO next 3 years.
Foster only signed a 2 year extension, so his contract is only through 2010-2011. Still it was a poor decision on Bird's part not to wait until the end of the season to see how he had played this season, plus I don't see any team giving him 6 mil per year that Bird gave him. IMO, Bird cost the Simons 2-3 mil by signing Foster when he did. Not to mention losing Foster's expiring as a tool that could have been used in many other ways.

The money could have allowed the Pacers to pick up Daniels team option, used to sign Jack, used to have made a trade at the trade deadline, or go after a FA like Sessions, Charlie V, etc. Bottom line it was a POOR decision by Bird!!

Justin, I have to disagree here. If I am not mistaken, we would have been over the salary cap anyway, with all of the cap holds we have this off-season. We couldn't make moves as if we were under the cap. I think when Bird and Morway looked at the roster, they said... our best option to fill out our roster is to extend somebody. That would leave them one less player to have to sign with their MLE and/or BAE, which still looks like it might be an issue. We are far enough under the LT that we aren't going to go over it by extending someone. And who better to reward than a player who brings the hustle, size, determination, leadership, tenure, desire, patience, philanthropy, and intelligence to our franchise that Foster does?

We wouldn't have been able to pursue a Charlie V. (we already have Murphy not playing any defense), Ramon Sessions (who I love), or Paul Milsap (who I love), because we would be dealing with the same MLE as every other team over the cap.

Also, Foster got a ton of interest on the trade market, because he is EXACTLY what mature teams headed for the playoffs are looking for. EVEN WITH the extra two years on his deal. $6M is a bargain for a big man like Foster. And teams admire that. That's why I think so many people on this board appreciate Foster. As for the monetary side of it, yeah we probably could have saved 2-3 million over the two years, but I think you have to make that kind of offer for him since it is a minimal increase in his current salary to lock him up and relieve the pressures on filling out the roster this summer.

Justin Tyme
02-26-2009, 11:30 PM
Justin, I have to disagree here. If I am not mistaken, we would have been over the salary cap anyway, with all of the cap holds we have this off-season. We couldn't make moves as if we were under the cap. I think when Bird and Morway looked at the roster, they said... our best option to fill out our roster is to extend somebody. That would leave them one less player to have to sign with their MLE and/or BAE, which still looks like it might be an issue. We are far enough under the LT that we aren't going to go over it by extending someone. And who better to reward than a player who brings the hustle, size, determination, leadership, tenure, desire, patience, philanthropy, and intelligence to our franchise that Foster does?

We wouldn't have been able to pursue a Charlie V. (we already have Murphy not playing any defense), Ramon Sessions (who I love), or Paul Milsap (who I love), because we would be dealing with the same MLE as every other team over the cap.

Also, Foster got a ton of interest on the trade market, because he is EXACTLY what mature teams headed for the playoffs are looking for. EVEN WITH the extra two years on his deal. $6M is a bargain for a big man like Foster. And teams admire that. That's why I think so many people on this board appreciate Foster. As for the monetary side of it, yeah we probably could have saved 2-3 million over the two years, but I think you have to make that kind of offer for him since it is a minimal increase in his current salary to lock him up and relieve the pressures on filling out the roster this summer.



Sorry, I stand by my previous post that it was a poor decision on Bird's part resigning Foster when he did w/o going to the trade deadline to see how Foster was playing. Bird knew Foster has had back problems in the past, and at 32 Foster's age is working against him. It was a blunder on Bird's part giving Foster an extension. Foster's trade value with an expiring was never going to be higher, or having allowed Foster's contract to expire would have allowed Bird more options. He threw those options away when he resigned Foster, not to mention 2-3 mil of the Simons' money in a time of economic distress for the franchise.

I for one haven't been all that impressed with Foster's play this year, and especially not 12.6 mil worth. He's basically a hustle 1 dimensional player who can play decent "D". Sure, he had some good games early in the season with some double doubles with hitting a couple of 3's, but 82 games makes a season. His forte of rebounding went south, and I don't want to hear it's b/c Murphy is stealing his rebounds. JMOAA

duke dynamite
02-27-2009, 01:34 AM
Hey, the Pacers won last night. Isn't that awesome???

Naptown_Seth
02-27-2009, 03:33 AM
I think Ford makes a huge difference especially late in games when it is tough to score and he is pretty good at creating a shot.
I think I'd just rather have Quis doing this since he is so strong finishing in traffic, plus I hate seeing them punt on offense totally for a pure one-on-one with Ford setup.

Ford is an advantage you can lean on, but when you sell out to that so much it gets easier for the defense to handle it and trap it.

I will say he hit at least one shot going to his right at the baseline that he got up over the big help/trap. From my angle you could see just how little space he had to get it up and over like that, just inches over the hands of whomever it was.

But it's almost damning than he can do this because then it becomes something they end up trying to force happening. I think this is where you see the TOs pick up, they are either forcing a dribble-drive 1 on 1 or they are forcing the tempo.

It's great to attack teams, but if you're also tired you do run the risk of sloppy play. I think its safe to say we've seen plenty of that.



BTW - I hated how poor the defense was on a few of those desperation possessions by Memphis. They let them score way too easily which kept the FT game going longer.

Oh, and that final pass out of bounds full-court? That was ALL their coach, he was screaming for it the whole time even when it wasn't there. I got the vibe that the players were none too thrilled with that "play call". Did someone say interim. :)

Midcoasted
02-27-2009, 03:37 AM
I think Ford makes a huge difference especially late in games when it is tough to score and he is pretty good at creating a shot.

Ding, ding, ding! UB is a winner! TJ ford is amazing at his ability to create a shot and score for his size. He'd be a dream PG if he could just get the turnovers down. He just tries to do too much and gets in a position where he can't make a decent pass. I still love his game though.

BillS
02-27-2009, 12:29 PM
Hey, the Pacers won last night. Isn't that awesome???

Winning is losing. Losing is winning. Ignorance is strength. Freedom is slavery.

Doubleplusungood.

ReginaldWayne
02-27-2009, 01:49 PM
I think I'd just rather have Quis doing this since he is so strong finishing in traffic, plus I hate seeing them punt on offense totally for a pure one-on-one with Ford setup.

Ford is an advantage you can lean on, but when you sell out to that so much it gets easier for the defense to handle it and trap it.

I will say he hit at least one shot going to his right at the baseline that he got up over the big help/trap. From my angle you could see just how little space he had to get it up and over like that, just inches over the hands of whomever it was.

But it's almost damning than he can do this because then it becomes something they end up trying to force happening. I think this is where you see the TOs pick up, they are either forcing a dribble-drive 1 on 1 or they are forcing the tempo.

It's great to attack teams, but if you're also tired you do run the risk of sloppy play. I think its safe to say we've seen plenty of that.



BTW - I hated how poor the defense was on a few of those desperation possessions by Memphis. They let them score way too easily which kept the FT game going longer.

Oh, and that final pass out of bounds full-court? That was ALL their coach, he was screaming for it the whole time even when it wasn't there. I got the vibe that the players were none too thrilled with that "play call". Did someone say interim. :)

They were down 5 with only 5 secs left with no time outs. If they didnt throw a full court pass they wouldnt of had time to run 2 plays plus try and foul us.

Naptown_Seth
02-27-2009, 02:40 PM
Winning is losing. Losing is winning. Ignorance is strength. Freedom is slavery.

Doubleplusungood.
Beautiful.



Full court pass - yes that was the situation but it doesn't require a pass to the baseline. I watched the players reacting to him like they were hoping for a more comfortable mid-court screen and bomb for the 3 and then the quick foul. You didn't need a baseline to baseline toss and it wasn't even close.

I'm telling ya, he was screaming for it and I thought they were looking at him like "WTF?" The subsequent effort seemed to back that opinion, token at best.



Rush - did have Mayo on him several times, but I don't think it was constant. And Mayo is and was a great defender, he took a lot of pride in it last year. I never got that BS knock on his game. Mayo is fun to watch because he seems to take the whole game pretty seriously.


Conley - why does he always look like he's sneering from some inside joke he just remembered?


I really like this new style, even if JOB was forced to do it by injuries, where he starts Rush and Roy and puts them into a clearly defined role and game situation repeatedly. Consistency is a rookie's friend. I'd love to see them play more, but where things are at right now is pretty good.

If only McBob could get some of those Baston/Rasho minutes, especially post deadline and injuries. You're out of the hunt and you don't need to build up guys for trading reasons at this point, or at least not as much.

BRushWithDeath
02-27-2009, 03:35 PM
I really like this new style, even if JOB was forced to do it by injuries, where he starts Rush and Roy and puts them into a clearly defined role and game situation repeatedly. Consistency is a rookie's friend. I'd love to see them play more, but where things are at right now is pretty good.

If only McBob could get some of those Baston/Rasho minutes, especially post deadline and injuries. You're out of the hunt and you don't need to build up guys for trading reasons at this point, or at least not as much.


I agree. I'm sure JOB hates every second of it but I'm enjoying it.

As for Josh, there is zero reasons to build up Baston/Rasho for trading reasons now. They are both expiring and there is zero chance the Pacers resign them. It could be justified to play Baston before the deadline to showcase him for a trade but now that is out the window.

I really wish I knew the reason McRoberts got in the dog house. If it was because of one bad (horrible even) game that's a big problem.

Peter_sixtyftsixin
02-27-2009, 03:50 PM
Winning is losing. Losing is winning. Ignorance is strength. Freedom is slavery.

Doubleplusungood.

Pure gold.