PDA

View Full Version : Post Game Thread: Bulls vs. Pacers



idioteque
02-22-2009, 03:25 PM
This team is still trying to win. No matter what your personal opinion is of tanking it is pretty obvious that this team is not trying to do it. You can tell by the way Obie is coaching and by the body language of the players that they're going to go out and lay it on the line every game for the rest of the season.

I hope that they keep playing hard but I also hope that we don't distort our draft positioning. I really think Jordan Hill would be a great fit with this team.

bellisimo
02-22-2009, 03:27 PM
we always know how to screw ourselves up...

aero
02-22-2009, 03:30 PM
Arena:
Conseco Fieldhouse, Indianapolis, IN
Officials:
#60 D. Guthrie, #13 M. McCutchen, #44 R. Olesiak
Attendance:
17,083
Duration:
2:13

_____________

Impressive attendance today wow

idioteque
02-22-2009, 03:32 PM
Arena:
Conseco Fieldhouse, Indianapolis, IN
Officials:
#60 D. Guthrie, #13 M. McCutchen, #44 R. Olesiak
Attendance:
17,083
Duration:
2:13

_____________

Impressive attendance today wow

Sunday afternoon, Chicago isn't too far away.

Any way you look at it though, the crowds at the game appear to be more enthused about the Pacers and even with the way the economy is, our arena is about 75% full per night on average whereas last year it was about 66% full per night. I think we're turning the corner.

aero
02-22-2009, 03:34 PM
It was nice to hear the fans really get into the game in the 4th too. It helped the players imo<br>

D-BONE
02-22-2009, 03:38 PM
Great team effort. I have expressed a degree of disappointment at times with Jack and Ford. They both played tremendous games tonight I thought.

So how was our D so effective today? Particularly against their backcourt. Rose can penetrate and Gordon can do major damage outside. Is it a lack of consistent scoring out of their bigs?

By the way, I thought Jack's D on BG in the latter part of the game was very good. Also liked seeing Rush really getting after it at times in on the ball D. Quis was solid in that regard, as well. Murph just keeps it comin'.

PaceBalls
02-22-2009, 03:40 PM
Troy sure is playing some great ball. If he continues to play this well next year and the Pacers have a winning record he should be an All Star.

Los Angeles
02-22-2009, 03:41 PM
This team is still trying to win. No matter what your personal opinion is of tanking it is pretty obvious that this team is not trying to do it. You can tell by the way Obie is coaching and by the body language of the players that they're going to go out and lay it on the line every game for the rest of the season.

I hope that they keep playing hard but I also hope that we don't distort our draft positioning. I really think Jordan Hill would be a great fit with this team.

I believe that they made a pledge at the beginning of the season to do just that. I admire them for continuing to the their best to honor that pledge.

duke dynamite
02-22-2009, 03:44 PM
This team is still trying to win. No matter what your personal opinion is of tanking it is pretty obvious that this team is not trying to do it. You can tell by the way Obie is coaching and by the body language of the players that they're going to go out and lay it on the line every game for the rest of the season.

I hope that they keep playing hard but I also hope that we don't distort our draft positioning. I really think Jordan Hill would be a great fit with this team.
I'm all for us trying to win with this group of players and actually winning. If we can somehow make it playing well until Danny gets back, we could still have a shot. We are only 2 games behind Chicago and just 3 behind Milwaukee now.

Lord Helmet
02-22-2009, 03:46 PM
No way in hell there were 17,083, that's how many tickets were sold, but there was not 17,083 in that building, and hell I wasn't even at the game.....

Will Galen
02-22-2009, 03:47 PM
I like it that they won't quit! I also think most fans have counted them out but the team itself hasn't. I have/did.

I also think to many people on here worry about draft position. A high pick helps but it's no guarantee of success.

What a team needs is luck. You have to get lucky in your draft picks, and you have to be lucky and avoid injury's.

Other than drafting Danny at 17, the Pacers luck has been pretty bad, but luck which is just chance, evens out over time.

So if you want to hope for something hope our luck changes for the better.

ReginaldWayne
02-22-2009, 04:02 PM
Ben Gordon couldnt miss the first half i believe he had 20, good thing Del Negro kept him out for the most part of the 3rd.

Ford missed lay up after lay up it seemed, but he did hit some key jumpers in the 2nd half.

Jack played really well tonight, he was keeping us in it early, and as mentioned before, D'ed up BG in the 4th nicely.

It really seemed like the refs were giving the Bulls all the damn calls all game.

There was hella amounts of Bulls fans in the crowd tonight.

And as for Murph, just a great game. Hit a real key 3 to tie it up at 80 when we just couldnt buy a bucket.

When we were up 14 in the 3rd, the lead just started shrinking and shrinking untill they took the lead, we just couldnt buy a bucket for a really long stretch. I liked the fact that our D really stepped it up when we were in that drought.

And big Roy, didnt have his best game, but actually got some 4th Q mins !!

D-BONE
02-22-2009, 04:22 PM
When we were up 14 in the 3rd, the lead just started shrinking and shrinking untill they took the lead, we just couldnt buy a bucket for a really long stretch. I liked the fact that our D really stepped it up when we were in that drought.



Yes. Offsetting a drought of that magnitude on the defensive end is, dare I say it, characteristic of a good (defensive) team. Perhaps they cooled to a degree, but the defensive energy looked really good out there in the 2nd half. Is that a fluke? Could it be at all indicative that Rush, Jack, and Quis defend the perimeter more effectively that Granger and Dunleavy?

deekay85
02-22-2009, 04:32 PM
No way in hell there were 17,083, that's how many tickets were sold, but there was not 17,083 in that building, and hell I wasn't even at the game.....

I agree. A lot of seat were empty.
As I saw the number, I was really shocked:-o

Spirit
02-22-2009, 04:35 PM
I was there. There were a lot of people in the balcony but not a whole lot in the club levels.

Einstein
02-22-2009, 04:45 PM
For me, tanking should never be an option. How will the rookies develop properly in a "tanking" environment?

There was a time when the Pacers current efforts to win against all odds would have been taken as a sign of exemplary character. I must be getting old.

JOB deserves some credit for coaching in this environment. Convincing your team that it can go out and win when its two top players are out is a sign of good coaching.

speakout4
02-22-2009, 04:49 PM
What is going on with Murphy? Clearly he is playing up to his potential which is all that can be asked. His numbers are really impressive and effort consisitent. I'm actually inclined to not trade him at this point.

dohman
02-22-2009, 05:17 PM
Can the simons afford tanking? No way.. They need this team to compete every night and put some fans in the stands to pull a profit. We all want the next big draft pick but the bottom line is our franchise cannot afford to be a bottom feeder at this current point in time. We have a good team. We are just a good veteran away from being a 4 or 5 seed for MANY years to come.

dohman
02-22-2009, 05:19 PM
Did anyone else find themselves wishing we would buy out rasho! He looked horrid out there and every min he was playing was a min I wish foster or hibbert would be back in.

Hibbert had a tough game shooting but made up for it in other areas. I have been VERY impressed with his play lately.

Hicks
02-22-2009, 05:47 PM
Random bits:

1) There were quite a few people here today, so if the sales number was 17,000, I believe it.

2) I was an actual witness to Murphy stealing a rebound from a teammate. Just one, but I did see it. He does do that in situations where there are no opponents around and the teammate is about to get it (and has position). So for anyone who doubts that he does it, he does it.

vnzla81
02-22-2009, 05:54 PM
This win makes me wonder if their record could have been better with the rookies playing instead of Rasho and the other guys

special ed
02-22-2009, 06:00 PM
This win makes me wonder if their record could have been better with the rookies playing instead of Rasho and the other guysGoes without saying. The only thing is those rookies would be hitting the wall had they been playing as much as they should be.
Only reason Rush is getting his PT is because of the injuries. Maybe OB is against it with Hibbert considering we see Rasho stink it up too often.

owl
02-22-2009, 06:10 PM
Did anyone else find themselves wishing we would buy out rasho! He looked horrid out there and every min he was playing was a min I wish foster or hibbert would be back in.

Hibbert had a tough game shooting but made up for it in other areas. I have been VERY impressed with his play lately.


The Pacers really need another good bigman who is quicker than Rasho and can defend
and be a semi-competent scorer. So a good PF in the draft or center.
If they are going to play defense they need plenty of fouls available to be used
to defend the paint.

BRushWithDeath
02-22-2009, 06:40 PM
Yeah, and I saw an UFO the other night. Come on Hicks, that's a cheap shot at Murph. You do know what defense attorneys do with eye witness, don't you?

It's not a cheap shot. It's fact. And it's not an isolated incident.

Spirit
02-22-2009, 06:43 PM
2) I was an actual witness to Murphy stealing a rebound from a teammate. Just one, but I did see it. He does do that in situations where there are no opponents around and the teammate is about to get it (and has position). So for anyone who doubts that he does it, he does it.
Finally more people are noticing this. He does this 1-2 times a game and it really annoys me. Makes me think he is a stat padder and a bad teammate.

Country Boy
02-22-2009, 06:45 PM
It's not a cheap shot. It's fact. And it's not an isolated incident.

It is a cheap shot, plain and simple. You can pick any player and watch that player and pick out flaws, such as Jordan taking that extra step. If this was a serious problem like you seem to think it is, the coaches and players would be ripping Murph a new one.

Hicks
02-22-2009, 06:49 PM
Yeah, and I saw an UFO the other night. Come on Hicks, that's a cheap shot at Murph. You do know what defense attorneys do with eye witness, don't you?

I saw it happen less than 5 hours ago. So either call me a liar and be done with it, or get a grip on reality. He does it. It's been seen.

BRushWithDeath
02-22-2009, 06:57 PM
It was a good win today. I don't think we're much worse off without Granger. All he brings is offense and we've got plenty of other guys who can score. And the movement is much better when they aren't standing around waiting for Danny to shoot. I'm not going to say we're better with him hurt but I don't think we're much worse.

It's a shame Hibbert can't keep out of foul trouble more often.

It's too bad Quisy is such a horrific outside shooter (and I realize he hit a couple today). He's better in every phase of the game than Danny except for shooting.

Rush seems to get more tough rebounds than any body on the team. He needs to dunk more of those inside. He misses too many that he could flush through.

Murph continues to be very consistent in what he is.

Foster didn't do much but he made a couple plays.

Jack shot the ball great today. I know everyone hates it but he's actually a better 2 than a 1.

Ford made some big plays at the end. But he screws those same plays up more often than not. He's still way too turnover prone.

Diener was solid as usual.

Rasho didn't do anything. As expected.

Maceo was sufficiently worthless again today. There is no reason to give a 33 year old guy who won't be here after this season time every game when there is a 21 year old who is just as good or better on the bench.

Graham and McRoberts must really be in the dog house.

And for those questioning the 17,000+ attendance I'd say it was pretty close. It was as full as any game this year save Cleveland, Boston, and the Lakers.

WetBob
02-22-2009, 06:59 PM
It is a cheap shot, plain and simple. You can pick any player and watch that player and pick out flaws, such as Jordan taking that extra step. If this was a serious problem like you seem to think it is, the coaches and players would be ripping Murph a new one.

It is not a cheap shot to point out something that is true.

How do you know they aren't already letting him know?

BRushWithDeath
02-22-2009, 07:01 PM
Finally more people are noticing this. He does this 1-2 times a game and it really annoys me. Makes me think he is a stat padder and a bad teammate.

People have noticed it and pointed it out for a long time and been ridiculed for it. Maybe now that Hicks has seen it we'll get a little more slack.

WetBob
02-22-2009, 07:05 PM
This collective board would be much better if criticism, of anything Pacers related, wasn't met with such general distain.

Naptown_Seth
02-22-2009, 07:05 PM
Random bits:

1) There were quite a few people here today, so if the sales number was 17,000, I believe it.

2) I was an actual witness to Murphy stealing a rebound from a teammate. Just one, but I did see it. He does do that in situations where there are no opponents around and the teammate is about to get it (and has position). So for anyone who doubts that he does it, he does it.
Just ask TJ's skull from the other night. I saw the same thing today Hicks. I don't like to throw him under the bus because he does get some tough boards too, but I just don't buy his RPG total to be quite on the up and up. I prorate his boards down due to stealing them and the utter lack of OREB he usually has.

OTOH he's been one of the better players on both ends without the ball so I just don't know what to think about him.


Do you hug TJ or strangle him. That one sequence where he was stuck by the arc, did a crazy up and under that he loves and clunked a wild one off the front of the rim instead of just passing the ball. So he hustles the rebound down (yay) and yet instead of thinking it was time to stop calling his number and passing it he dribbles out to the arc and forces a contested 3pt shot which he missed. Sheesh.

I know the good plays, but they don't make the tons of this crap go away.


Look at the score, look at the opponents scoring since Quis returned and Rush started getting back to 15-20 minutes. Add in Foster's return and Hibbert continuing to get PT and I think it's pretty obvious that these guys turn a 115 ppg defensive team into a 100 ppg version in a hurry.

I don't know how you put a stat on it, but Quis and Rush are clearly the team's top 2 on-ball defenders and probably off-ball as well. I know Rush is struggling on offense, but his defense as a rookie is incredible.


I don't get where Quis' price tag is too much when he's played all year like the #2 player on the team. He's the top defender, he's the best CONVERTOR of the dribble-drive guys and he's pretty good about not forcing shots he can't get. Today even though he took a couple of 3s, he also clearly passed a few up too. Once he gave up the outisde shot and then took it across the lane and then down for a layup.

Only Danny has matched Quis in terms of bang for buck IMO. I just don't see his deal as expensive in the least, especially when you look at the production from Murphleavy.

Cherokee
02-22-2009, 07:07 PM
I didn't criticize anything Pacer related. I did criticize, in a way, all the Murhpy hate.

Cherokee
02-22-2009, 07:08 PM
TJ ran into Murphy's elbow, as it clearly showed on the replay. Murphy did nothing wrong on that play.

Coop
02-22-2009, 07:10 PM
So he did it once out of his 14 rebounds today. What a terrible teammate.

It just seems like a stupid thing to ridicule someone for. The guy has been our most consistent player outside of Granger this year. Some people are never pleased. If his teammates are upset about him "stealing rebounds", maybe they should hustle more and get to the ball before Murph. This topic is just a whole lot of crying about nothing.


It was a good win today. I don't think we're much worse off without Granger. All he brings is offense and we've got plenty of other guys who can score. And the movement is much better when they aren't standing around waiting for Danny to shoot. I'm not going to say we're better with him hurt but I don't think we're much worse.

It's too bad Quisy is such a horrific outside shooter (and I realize he hit a couple today). He's better in every phase of the game than Danny except for shooting.

Ridiculous. The guy gives his all for a ****ty team every game and still can't get respect from his own fans.

BRushWithDeath
02-22-2009, 07:10 PM
I didn't criticize anything Pacer related. I did criticize, in a way, all the Murhpy hate.

It's not Murphy hate. It's Murphy fact.

able
02-22-2009, 07:10 PM
I didn't criticize anything Pacer related. I did criticize, in a way, all the Murhpy hate.

This "Murphy hate" in your terminology, is non-extistant.

People see things, and say they see it, that is not hatred, that is not talking bad, that is called "observation".

Has absolutely nothing to do with hate.

WetBob
02-22-2009, 07:11 PM
I didn't criticize anything Pacer related. I did criticize, in a way, all the Murhpy hate.

Do you know what distain means?

There is no hate involved. There can be criticism without being hatred, that's what most at this board seems to lack the capability to grasp.

WetBob
02-22-2009, 07:12 PM
Ridiculous. The guy gives his all for a ****ty team every game and still can't get respect from his own fans.

My point exactly. It is not ridiculous to state something that is true, just because it is negative toward the team you like.

BRushWithDeath
02-22-2009, 07:14 PM
I have no disdain for Danny. I'm just pointing out what others on this board seem to want to overlook.

Cherokee
02-22-2009, 07:16 PM
Murphy and another guy goes for the ball, and Murphy holds on to it. So what? That is his job, and he's doing very well. Why all the nit-picking?

ReginaldWayne
02-22-2009, 07:20 PM
It is not a cheap shot to point out something that is true.

How do you know they aren't already letting him know?

Wow. This is st8 ridiculous. Yea im really sure The coaches are telling Murphy, "Hey! dont come down with that rebound if a teammate is just as close to the ball as you! Its wrong! The last thing we want is you securing rebounds and giving it off to the pg!" :rolleyes:

Those of you saying it happens 1 - 2 times, BS. You guys think its happened 60 - 100 times this season? Through 50 games this year I dont think its happened more than 10 - 15 times this year, max. And thats enough for some of youto complain about. And ive seen every Pacer game this season except 4 or 5, so dont say you must not be watching the games.

Lets not talk about his season high in points tonight, lets talk about our PF Murph SECURING A REBOUND, WHEN HE COULD HAVE LET A TEAMMATE SECURE INSTEAD.

You guys should be embarrassed of fans of other teams reading this on our message boards. "Oh, some of those pacers fans dont like when Troy Murphy grabs a rebound when he could have let his teammate grab it."

This isnt the WNBA, these arent women.

Respect Murphy.


Think about what you guys are saying.

ReginaldWayne
02-22-2009, 07:22 PM
This "Murphy hate" in your terminology, is non-extistant.

People see things, and say they see it, that is not hatred, that is not talking bad, that is called "observation".

Has absolutely nothing to do with hate.

no its not an obversation. Its a criticism. Those saying they want him to stop doing what they "observe".

Justin Tyme
02-22-2009, 07:22 PM
Maceo was sufficiently worthless again today. There is no reason to give a 33 year old guy who won't be here after this season time every game when there is a 21 year old who is just as good or better on the bench.


Where was this comment last game!?!?

I'd rather McBob be playing at this point and under the current circumstances, but Maceo played a really nice game against the T-Wolves.

I'm also wondering what Graham did to get in JO'B's doghouse.

ReginaldWayne
02-22-2009, 07:26 PM
Just ask TJ's skull from the other night. I saw the same thing today Hicks. I don't like to throw him under the bus because he does get some tough boards too, but I just don't buy his RPG total to be quite on the up and up. I prorate his boards down due to stealing them and the utter lack of OREB he usually has.

OTOH he's been one of the better players on both ends without the ball so I just don't know what to think about him.


Do you hug TJ or strangle him. That one sequence where he was stuck by the arc, did a crazy up and under that he loves and clunked a wild one off the front of the rim instead of just passing the ball. So he hustles the rebound down (yay) and yet instead of thinking it was time to stop calling his number and passing it he dribbles out to the arc and forces a contested 3pt shot which he missed. Sheesh.

I know the good plays, but they don't make the tons of this crap go away.


Look at the score, look at the opponents scoring since Quis returned and Rush started getting back to 15-20 minutes. Add in Foster's return and Hibbert continuing to get PT and I think it's pretty obvious that these guys turn a 115 ppg defensive team into a 100 ppg version in a hurry.

I don't know how you put a stat on it, but Quis and Rush are clearly the team's top 2 on-ball defenders and probably off-ball as well. I know Rush is struggling on offense, but his defense as a rookie is incredible.


I don't get where Quis' price tag is too much when he's played all year like the #2 player on the team. He's the top defender, he's the best CONVERTOR of the dribble-drive guys and he's pretty good about not forcing shots he can't get. Today even though he took a couple of 3s, he also clearly passed a few up too. Once he gave up the outisde shot and then took it across the lane and then down for a layup.

Only Danny has matched Quis in terms of bang for buck IMO. I just don't see his deal as expensive in the least, especially when you look at the production from Murphleavy.

This is so true, the D on the wings is so much better with them doing it on the court together. Why cant we ever see a lineup of Jack Quis Rush at the 1 2 3? Like at the 6 minute mark, instead of taking out quis or jack, we take out ford for rush and let jiack run the point?

Brad8888
02-22-2009, 07:27 PM
I have no disdain for Danny. I'm just pointing out what others on this board seem to want to overlook.

We can all hope that with further experience and a return to health by next year that Danny develops the offensive penetration skills and basic defensive skills that Marquis has as a player who disrupts the overall offensive flow and rhythm of the opposition. Conversely, hopefully a more healthy Marquis will actually be able to develop a jumper to go along with the rest of his skills.

Erik
02-22-2009, 07:27 PM
I took my son to his first game today and we were picked for the Kia seat upgrade to sit courtside! Did anyone see me?

ReginaldWayne
02-22-2009, 07:31 PM
I took my son to his first game today and we were picked for the Kia seat upgrade to sit courtside! Did anyone see me?

haha yea i saw that. Good for you guys. Your son looked extra excited haha. Wasnt the game ruined for you guys though bc Murph didnt let TJ grab that rebound?

Justin Tyme
02-22-2009, 07:32 PM
no its not an obversation. Its a criticism. Those saying him want him to stop doing what they "observe".


Speak for yourself. I have mentioned it b4 as an OBSERVATION, and not as criticism. When he does it, it's almost always to a smaller player... guards. As a PF, his job is to rebound, and as guards theirs is to dish out assists.

Erik
02-22-2009, 07:34 PM
haha yea i saw that. Good for you guys. Your son looked extra excited haha. Wasnt the game ruined for you guys though bc Murph didnt let TJ grab that rebound?
Ummm...no.

ReginaldWayne
02-22-2009, 07:39 PM
Wow I just saw on NBA.com that the drought we went on in the 2nd half was 11 minutes with out a fg.

Justin Tyme
02-22-2009, 07:39 PM
I saw it happen less than 5 hours ago. So either call me a liar and be done with it, or get a grip on reality. He does it. It's been seen.


I saw it as well, so you aren't imagining seeing it. My feeling is if he plays with the idea every rebound is to be his that's what I expect from a BIG.

billbradley
02-22-2009, 07:48 PM
I've seen Murphy do it at games I've been to this year, and i would even agree that it happens at least once a game. I wish I could see a reel of it so I could decipher if he is even paying attention to whom he is grabbing it from because I also see Murph going directly towards balls he has no chance of getting. I would also like to know if there are any perks in his contract for rebound totals. Hopefully his mind is just on grabbing the ball at all times and his determination blinds him to who he is getting it from. If it was just stat greed I think it would show up in other areas of his game.

Erik
02-22-2009, 07:52 PM
I saw it as well, so you aren't imagining seeing it. My feeling is if he plays with the idea every rebound is to be his that's what I expect from a BIG.That's what I was thinking.

speakout4
02-22-2009, 07:54 PM
I don't dispute he does this. Does anyone want Murph to be less aggressive? To be an agressive rebounder requires a mentality to go for the ball no matter who is there. Everyone is probably correct but Murph should continue exactly what he's doing. He is finally earning his money. Where was this Murphy before?

Pacers4Life
02-22-2009, 07:58 PM
I just find it so ridiculous that this Murphy-Stealing has become the focal point of this thread. Just let it go, its not even a deal...

Very pleased wwith the announced crowd regardless of how many were actually there, and EVEN MORE pleased with the way this team is playing w/o Danny. People can say what they want but theres no way we're better w/o him than we are with him but this is just proving to the reast of the league what we as fans already knew:

The Pacers have a deeeeeep bench, one that I think most other elite squads would kill for.

Jonathan
02-22-2009, 08:08 PM
I USED to dog Troy. I like his game. Nice Three point % he has been taking the ball to the hole better and hitting mid range jumpers. He has improved. Leave the dude alone. He does not deserve criticism!!!

BRushWithDeath
02-22-2009, 08:13 PM
Where was this comment last game!?!?

I'd rather McBob be playing at this point and under the current circumstances, but Maceo played a really nice game against the T-Wolves.

I'm also wondering what Graham did to get in JO'B's doghouse.


Maceo has played a couple nice games. No doubt about it. But he's played more that aren't nice than are. And I'd argue that McRoberts played more good games in his short time. Yes, he was terrible against the Raptors. But other than that he was good in basically every game he saw action. Unfortunately, we haven't seen him since that terrible game. Except for those 27 seconds the other night when he had the offensive rebound basket to end the quarter.

BRushWithDeath
02-22-2009, 08:14 PM
I USED to dog Troy. I like his game. Nice Three point % he has been taking the ball to the hole better and hitting mid range jumpers. He has improved. Leave the dude alone. He does not deserve criticism!!!

I like Troy. He's having the best season of his career. But to say he doesn't deserve criticism is crazy. Everyone deserves criticism. If LeBron was on our he team he'd deserve criticism. We criticize the team because we want them to improve.

Country Boy
02-22-2009, 08:22 PM
I saw it happen less than 5 hours ago. So either call me a liar and be done with it, or get a grip on reality. He does it. It's been seen.

Geez, I am not calling you a liar! I was simply making a point that you and others making a big deal out of basically nothing. Btw, an infraction for that post is pretty weak. You would think that satire is not something that is respected around here.

Merz
02-22-2009, 08:24 PM
I have a small question for those that have seen Murphy "steal" a rebound.

Does it appear that he see's the ball is going to a teammate and he decides that rebound is his?

or...

Does he aggressively go for the rebound without paying attention who he is getting it over or "stealing" it from?


If it's the second than that is something I'd hope he'd do and making a big deal about it is totally ridiculous.

able
02-22-2009, 08:30 PM
1: Murphy has a clause in his contract, which dates from his pre-pacers days, that pays him additional money on double digit rebounds and double-doubles.

Now that would be fine, if, like many other players, the "balance" in his rebounds was there (and scoring) BUT;

2: His OR's are as rare as a 4 humped camel
3: His scoring seems to wither once he reached 10+ points.

IF he was indeed as "aggressive" a rebounder as some of you suggest, how come he never gets an off. board ?

4: It is a fact he sat out one of the last games of the season at his previous place of employment to not damage his 10.01 average in rebounds (bonus).

SO people seeing his "rebounding prowess" when only teammates are around, but the lack when there are opponents, notice this and wonder.


Nothing wrong with that.

Country Boy
02-22-2009, 08:32 PM
1: Murphy has a clause in his contract, which dates from his pre-pacers days, that paus him additional money on double digit rebounds and double-doubles.

Now that would be fine, if, like many other players, the "balance" in his rebounds was there (and scoring) BUT;

2: His OR's are as rare as a 4 humped camel
3: His scoring seems to wither once he reached 10+ points.

IF he was indeed as "aggressive" a rebounder as some of you suggest, how come he never gets an off. board ?

4: It is a fact he sat out one of the last games of the season at his previous place of employment to not damage his 10.01 average in rebounds (bonus).

SO people seeing his "rebounding prowess" when only teammates are around, but the lack when there are opponents, notice this and wonder.


Nothing wrong with that.

Is this observation or hate as you told another poster?

BTW he is averaging 1.9 or and 9.6 dr, hardly rare offensive rebounds, as you stated, or observed.

Now D. Howard is averaging 3.6 of and 8.9 dr, so there seems to be a disconnect in Murphy's actual numbers and how they are percieved by a few posters on this board.

Hicks
02-22-2009, 08:38 PM
Murphy and another guy goes for the ball, and Murphy holds on to it. So what? That is his job

No, no. It went like this: Other Pacer is getting to the ball, in front of Murphy, getting his hands on the ball, and THEN Murphy swoops in and snags it away from the hands of the teammate. That's not two guys getting to the ball. That's one guy getting to the ball, then the other guy coming in and TAKING IT from him as he's about to turn and dribble.

Thesterovic
02-22-2009, 08:39 PM
You guys would be mad at Murph if he DIDN'T get alot of rebounds. And now you guys are mad at him for GETTING rebounds.

LG33
02-22-2009, 08:40 PM
Tanning beds ain't cheap!

Coop
02-22-2009, 08:40 PM
1: Murphy has a clause in his contract, which dates from his pre-pacers days, that pays him additional money on double digit rebounds and double-doubles.

Now that would be fine, if, like many other players, the "balance" in his rebounds was there (and scoring) BUT;

2: His OR's are as rare as a 4 humped camel
3: His scoring seems to wither once he reached 10+ points.

IF he was indeed as "aggressive" a rebounder as some of you suggest, how come he never gets an off. board ?

4: It is a fact he sat out one of the last games of the season at his previous place of employment to not damage his 10.01 average in rebounds (bonus).



1: Where did you see/hear about this? I don't doubt that he does, I'm just curious as to where you got that info.

2: This is because he plays on the perimeter. On defense, he's obviously going to be in the post but he's typically out of position on offense to go after rebounds.

3: Don't know what his scoring has to do with this. As for the question about his rebounding, see #2.

4: I have a hard time believing that. There are 82 games in a year. He could have played that one last game and gotten 0 rebounds and I doubt it would have brought his RPG down enough.

Coop
02-22-2009, 08:43 PM
No, no. It went like this: Other Pacer is getting to the ball, in front of Murphy, getting his hands on the ball, and THEN Murphy swoops in and snags it away from the hands of the teammate. That's not two guys getting to the ball. That's one guy getting to the ball, then the other guy coming in and TAKING IT from him as he's about to turn and dribble.

LOL..Well if Murphy took it from his teammate after the guy already had the ball, then the first guy still gets the rebound. The whole idea of "stealing" a rebound isn't even possible. You either get the ball or you dont. If someone gets the rebound and Murphy grabs it from them, it's not like he gets credit for the other guys rebound.

kester99
02-22-2009, 08:45 PM
Murphy does get some ORs. To say he gets none is hyperbole, and not useful. As to why he gets so few, compared to some other PFs, it has been said before. He plays away from the basket on offense. He is a bomber, not a banger. That is his role in the offense, and it determines his place on the floor when a rebound occurs.

As to who takes precedence when grabbing rebounds...In baseball, when two players go for a fly ball, one will call or wave the other one off. These flyballs may occur once every few minutes. In basketball, where rebound opportunities may occur once every few seconds, there has to be a predefined precedence. Murphy takes precedence on a rebound, just as a PG would when determining who is going to advance the ball across the half-court.

We want him to get the rebound. He wants to get the rebound. All is good.

If you want him to get more offensive boards, keep him away from the 3 pt line, and under the basket.

BRushWithDeath
02-22-2009, 08:46 PM
Ridiculous. The guy gives his all for a ****ty team every game and still can't get respect from his own fans.

Is anything I said about Granger not true? And how was I not giving him respect? Also, every player on the roster gives their all for a ****ty team. Don't act like Danny is the only one who tries. And I could also argue that Danny doesn't give his all defensively anymore but I'll save that for another day.

Hicks
02-22-2009, 08:48 PM
No, no. It went like this: Other Pacer is getting to the ball, in front of Murphy, getting his hands on the ball, and THEN Murphy swoops in and snags it away from the hands of the teammate. That's not two guys getting to the ball. That's one guy getting to the ball, then the other guy coming in and TAKING IT from him as he's about to turn and dribble.

And here's the clincher I neglected to post along with this: THERE WERE NO BULLS WITHIN 15 FEET!

I'm getting emphatic to stress that I'm not looking for reasons to "hate" Murphy or to stretch the truth into a lie. I'm getting emphatic out of annoyance in regards to the disbelief of some of you to what I'm trying to describe.

I neither love or hate Troy Murphy. Troy Murphy's having a great individual year. But I saw what I'm describing, and it's not something I would ever applaud.

Country Boy
02-22-2009, 08:48 PM
No, no. It went like this: Other Pacer is getting to the ball, in front of Murphy, getting his hands on the ball, and THEN Murphy swoops in and snags it away from the hands of the teammate. That's not two guys getting to the ball. That's one guy getting to the ball, then the other guy coming in and TAKING IT from him as he's about to turn and dribble.

So do we know Murph got credit for this rebound? It seems that he would not if it happened as you have described.

Country Boy
02-22-2009, 08:50 PM
And here's the clincher I neglected to post along with this: THERE WERE NO BULLS WITHIN 15 FEET!

I'm getting emphatic to stress that I'm not looking for reasons to "hate" Murphy or to stretch the truth into a lie. I'm getting emphatic out of annoyance in regards to the disbelief of some of you to what I'm trying to describe.

I neither love or hate Troy Murphy. Troy Murphy's having a great individual year. But I saw what I'm describing, and it's not something I would ever applaud.

I never called you a liar and if you took it that way, my apoligies. However it seems to me that Murph is being nitpicked just a tad bit.

kester99
02-22-2009, 08:53 PM
I saw the play where TJ and Murph were both on the rebound. It happened much as Hicks describes, and my assumption as to why it occurred is just that it was instinctive, both on Murphy's part, and on TJ's part in releasing the ball to Murph. I frankly don't know who got credit for the board, and I doubt if Murphy or TJ know either. And I doubt they care.

Hicks
02-22-2009, 08:54 PM
LOL..Well if Murphy took it from his teammate after the guy already had the ball, then the first guy still gets the rebound. The whole idea of "stealing" a rebound isn't even possible. You either get the ball or you dont. If someone gets the rebound and Murphy grabs it from them, it's not like he gets credit for the other guys rebound.

*sigh*

First of all, you have to understand that you have the ball moving away from the basket (obviously, as it was a missed shot), then between the ball and the basket you have the other Pacer, then a few feet behind that Pacer's backside was Troy.

The ball is right in front of the other Pacer, who is about to or is just grabbing the ball with his hands, when either just before or just as the other Pacer is gripping the ball, Troy comes from behind the guy's back, reaches around the left side of the other Pacer, and snags it from him.

Murphy went out of his way to go snag it, and looked like a jerk for doing so. Doesn't make me hate him, doesn't mean he's a bad person, doesn't mean he's not having a great year, or anything else. It just is what it is, and I'm not going to sit here and say it looked good because it looked bad.

Hicks
02-22-2009, 08:56 PM
So do we know Murph got credit for this rebound? It seems that he would not if it happened as you have described.

I don't know. It's not the point. It's the action and the apparent intent behind the action that looked bad. Doesn't really matter to me if that one play gave him a defensive rebound or not because clearly Troy was doing what he did to claim another one.

Coop
02-22-2009, 09:01 PM
It just seems like a non-issue to me. I doubt it hurt team chemistry at all, and I doubt TJ really cared. If he wanted the ball bad enough, he would have gone after it harder. I didn't see the game so I'll believe what you're describing, but it still seems ridiculous that some people are complaining about it.

Country Boy
02-22-2009, 09:06 PM
I don't know. It's not the point. It's the action and the apparent intent behind the action that looked bad. Doesn't really matter to me if that one play gave him a defensive rebound or not because clearly Troy was doing what he did to claim another one.

Hicks, if could try finding some old footage of Bill Russell and watch how he went about rebounding. We both should agree that he was one of the best at snagging rebounds. He would knock over anyone including his coach to get a rebound. I don't believe anyone would say that he was stealing rebounds. He would take boards from his sister if she was on the floor, that is just the way it is.

Hicks
02-22-2009, 09:08 PM
I respect Bill Russell a great deal, but if he stole rebounds, he stole rebounds. I'm not going to say something's a good thing because a great guy did it.

Will Galen
02-22-2009, 09:21 PM
Why are you guys making a big deal out of Murph taking rebounds away from teammates? Good rebounders go after every rebound, that's their mindset. It's not a problem, it's a good thing! You actually want the whole team to have that mindset. You don't want players out there looking to see who else has a hold of THEIR rebound, you want them taking it.

Besides I've seen teammates take rebounds away from Murph. That's basketball.

speakout4
02-22-2009, 09:24 PM
The next time Murphy lets someone else take that rebound, especially a guy the size of a PG who lets a PF from the other team take it away, Murphy is going to get hell. The guy gets hell for not being aggressive and then gets hell for being too aggressive with his own teammates. I'm sure he thinks that he can't buy a break.

Just think the Pacers got that rebound. Isn't that enough?
Murphy is the best player we have on the court right now. How about a little appreciation?

Country Boy
02-22-2009, 09:27 PM
I respect Bill Russell a great deal, but if he stole rebounds, he stole rebounds. I'm not going to say something's a good thing because a great guy did it.

Fair enough. I guess we just disagree and I will leave it at that.

jeffg-body
02-22-2009, 09:32 PM
Aren't we going a tad bit overboard to critique a rebound?

Pacemaker
02-22-2009, 09:33 PM
The next time Murphy lets someone else take that rebound, especially a guy the size of a PG who lets a PF from the other team take it away, Murphy is going to get hell. The guy gets hell for not being aggressive and then gets hell for being too aggressive with his own teammates. I'm sure he thinks that he can't buy a break.

Just think the Pacers got that rebound. Isn't that enough?
Murphy is the best player we have on the court right now. How about a little appreciation?

x 2

Hicks
02-22-2009, 09:34 PM
Aren't we going a tad bit overboard to critique a rebound?

Obviously I can only speak for myself, but while I don't like that he does it, I don't consider it a big deal, either.

Kuq_e_Zi91
02-22-2009, 09:45 PM
I opened this game thread thinking I'd hear about the great team effort and pulling out wins without our two leading scorers from last year, instead we get "Murphy steals rebounds!" Not to knock you guys or anything, but it's a little sad that we're arguing over this when there's so much else going on with this team right now.

How about Marquis lately? It's great to have him back. His defense, as mentioned before, is really missed when he's out.

I like what I see from Brandon outside of the little plays here and there where he makes little mistakes. For example, the missed layup where he should have dunked it. It'll come to him though.

Jarrett carried us in that first half while TJ was in Me-J mode. I hope that doesn't get overlooked. Posters always look for his negatives because he seems to make them in the crucial moments.

TJ and Murph came up big in the 4th. Murph hitting that three and tying it at 80 after that ridiculous drought was such a relief. TJ finally hit some jumpers and looked more attentive on defense getting steals for easy buckets (a dunk!).

Looking forward to NY. They've been playing well lately. Nate went on a tear after the All Star Break and Al was feeling it today. It'll be a test for our defense, which has looked great lately.

SoupIsGood
02-22-2009, 09:45 PM
Murphy averages .8 fewer offensive rebounds than Tim Duncan. (And TD plays more minutes.)

vnzla81
02-22-2009, 09:46 PM
And here's the clincher I neglected to post along with this: THERE WERE NO BULLS WITHIN 15 FEET!

I'm getting emphatic to stress that I'm not looking for reasons to "hate" Murphy or to stretch the truth into a lie. I'm getting emphatic out of annoyance in regards to the disbelief of some of you to what I'm trying to describe.

I neither love or hate Troy Murphy. Troy Murphy's having a great individual year. But I saw what I'm describing, and it's not something I would ever applaud.

Trust me I been saying this for years, Troy is an O.K player he gets his rebounds when nobody is close and gets the majority of his rebounds and points in the 1st half. That is not to say that the better he does the easier is going to be for the pacers to trade him next year.

Country Boy
02-22-2009, 09:53 PM
Trust me I been saying this for years, Troy is an O.K player he gets his rebounds when nobody is close and gets the majority of his rebounds and points in the 1st half. That is not to say that the better he does the easier is going to be for the pacers to trade him next year.

How about backing up your statement about Troy with stats? Not saying you are wrong, just want to see the stats to go with your claim.

Putnam
02-22-2009, 09:59 PM
Murphy does get some ORs. To say he gets none is hyperbole, and not useful.



That's not hyperbole. That is litotes. :D


(I'm such a dick!)


.

vnzla81
02-22-2009, 10:01 PM
How about backing up your statement about Troy with stats? Not saying you are wrong, just want to see the stats to go with your claim.

Why do you think that even if Murphy is getting all this numbers the pacers still want to draft or trade for another PF? he is only numbers, he could be the perfect guy to come of the bench, I like they guy but his number a lot of times don't make any difference at the end of the game.

able
02-22-2009, 10:04 PM
That's not hyperbole. That is litotes. :D
m such a dick!)


.

I personally thought the 4 humped camel gave it away but <shrug> what can I say

Will Galen
02-22-2009, 10:12 PM
Why do you think that even if Murphy is getting all this numbers the pacers still want to draft or trade for another PF?

Okay, how about you prove the above statement too. I know this board wants a power forward, but who says the Pacers front office wants one. All I know is they want a post presence. That could be a center or power forward.

I would say since they are getting good production from Murph, they would prefer another center.

danman
02-22-2009, 10:16 PM
OMG at this rebounding BS. Look, you want to criticize Murph, talk about his defense. Poor on the ball, too slow to help. He's a very good rebounder and always has been. Easy rebounds... stealing rebounds... pffft.

I mostly credit JoB for Murph's best season. He recognized that Murph was a very solid 3 point shooter from straight on and sets him up out there with a screen or kickout. Murph goes from an easy cover on the block to a damned tough cover out there... most opposing big men aren't comfortable out there and can't help/rebound.

I've always had Murph pegged as subpar for an NBA starter. But in this offense, I think the needle has swung slightly to the other side. If only we had a quick, shotblocking defender to pair up with him.

Oh, and TJ can freelance his way into trouble, but I love the adjustments he made in the second half. Say what you will, but there's no substitute for a quick slasher at crunch time. And TJ is a freaking waterbug.

MiaDragon
02-22-2009, 10:18 PM
Obviously I can only speak for myself, but while I don't like that he does it, I don't consider it a big deal, either.

IMO it only becomes an issue if one of his teammates has problems with it.

SoupIsGood
02-22-2009, 10:19 PM
That's not hyperbole. That is litotes. :D




Er, no.

Doddage
02-22-2009, 10:25 PM
LeBron "steals" rebounds too, but I don't see anyone getting on his case about it. Before anyone tries to accuse me of comparing him and Troy Murphy, spare me. That's not what I'm doing.

ReginaldWayne
02-22-2009, 10:29 PM
Im frankly just embarrassed by Hicks.

speakout4
02-22-2009, 10:30 PM
OMG at this rebounding BS. Look, you want to criticize Murph, talk about his defense. Poor on the ball, too slow to help. He's a very good rebounder and always has been. Easy rebounds... stealing rebounds... pffft.

I mostly credit JoB for Murph's best season. He recognized that Murph was a very solid 3 point shooter from straight on and sets him up out there with a screen or kickout. Murph goes from an easy cover on the block to a damned tough cover out there... most opposing big men aren't comfortable out there and can't help/rebound.

I've always had Murph pegged as subpar for an NBA starter. But in this offense, I think the needle has swung slightly to the other side. If only we had a quick, shotblocking defender to pair up with him.

Oh, and TJ can freelance his way into trouble, but I love the adjustments he made in the second half. Say what you will, but there's no substitute for a quick slasher at crunch time. And TJ is a freaking waterbug.
Right the needle has swung the other way to Murphy becoming a positive just as Dunleavy became a positive last season. This isn't to say these guys are all stars but they are not embarassments as starters. In a couple of years when their contacts expire we may think differently.

vnzla81
02-22-2009, 10:32 PM
Okay, how about you prove the above statement too. I know this board wants a power forward, but who says the Pacers front office wants one. All I know is they want a post presence. That could be a center or power forward.

I would say since they are getting good production from Murph, they would prefer another center.

Every person in this board wants and knows that the pacers need a PF, Troy is a good second PF coming of the bench that is all.

count55
02-22-2009, 10:34 PM
This collective board would be much better if criticism, of anything Pacers related, wasn't met with such general distain.


Do you know what distain means?

I can only assume it's the result of spilling diwine on dicarpet.


I don't get where Quis' price tag is too much when he's played all year like the #2 player on the team. He's the top defender, he's the best CONVERTOR of the dribble-drive guys and he's pretty good about not forcing shots he can't get. Today even though he took a couple of 3s, he also clearly passed a few up too. Once he gave up the outisde shot and then took it across the lane and then down for a layup.

Only Danny has matched Quis in terms of bang for buck IMO. I just don't see his deal as expensive in the least, especially when you look at the production from Murphleavy.

There certainly little sense arguing that Quis hasn't been productive when he has played this year. There's also no sense in saying that Quis at $6.7 isn't a great value, or at least a better value than Murphy & Dunleavy. However, there are two reasons that the Daniels almost certainly will not be a Pacer next year.

First, and most pressing, is the fact that they simply cannot afford his contract. The $7.4mm his option calls for would put the Pacers at $65mm with only 10 players under contract. The draft pick would put them between $67-68mm, leaving $2mm or less to sign the final four players on the roster and still stay below the estimated $69.4mm salary cap. The only way we bring him back is if we're able to get him for a significant paycut, which I find kind of unlikely.

Second, despite his performance, he has still struggled to stay on the floor. He's missed 15 games this season, so if he plays the rest of the year, he'll still be at 67.


That's not hyperbole. That is litotes. :D


(I'm such a dick!)


.

Well, actually, it is hyperbole, which is defined as extreme exaggeration. Able claimed none (IIRC), which exaggerates the paucity of his offensive rebounds. It's also defined as an extravagant figure of speech not meant to be taken literally, which is exactly what able was doing.

Litotes, on the other hand, is understating convention, generally expressed as a negative of it's contrary. For example, had he said that Murphy's contract incentives are no small consideration, then it would have been litotes.

ABADays
02-22-2009, 10:36 PM
I saw it happen less than 5 hours ago. So either call me a liar and be done with it, or get a grip on reality. He does it. It's been seen.

I can't quite figure out why this is even an issue. His job is to rebound - he rebounds. Good grief.

PaceBalls
02-22-2009, 10:47 PM
Murph is a rebound vulture for sure, and I'm glad he is! You want someone who is aggressive on the glass. I've seen Jeff Foster do the same thing many a time.

Give Hicks a break guys he is just stating his opinion like everyone else here. Don't be an *** just because you are behind a computer. If everyone here talked with eachother like they were chilling out at a bar with them this board would be alot more friendly.

kester99
02-22-2009, 10:52 PM
My round.

Noodle
02-22-2009, 10:59 PM
Reading this thread may be annoying to some, but what I see is a bunch of people starting to stand behind Murphy, finally. That is great.

Seriously though, Hicks was just making an observation as stated before. Hicks has never been a Murphy hater, so it's not fair to label him in such a way.

However, Hicks I looked at the recording of the game on my DVR and saw exactly the play you "observed". I must say TJ never really had control of the ball and Murphy was playing the ball. I couldn't say he really meant to be a bad teammate.

This really is the first I've heard about Murphy "stealing" rebounds. I will say he has done this before, but not every game. 10-15 times all year as previously stated. Hardly a reason for hard critiquing from the coaching staff.

Able, I must play Devil's advocate. You had to know Murh plays on the perimeter offensively. Yet he still manages to pull down 2 off. rebounds a game. Usually, off of pure instinct or rushing down on the block when a shot is taken to secure the long ones. To me that is good effort to secure as many as he does and I cheer him on for that. BTW he had 5 tonight.

MagicRat
02-22-2009, 11:01 PM
http://home.comcast.net/%7Emagic_rat/murphystealsrebound.gif

McKeyFan
02-22-2009, 11:04 PM
Here's a possibility: Murph and his teammates have discussed this and don't mind him stealing the rebound.

Even if that's not the case, I don't have a big problem with him stealing a rebound, which seems to happen once a game or so.

Why? He's usually stealing it from a guard or wingman and their careers don't hinge so much on number of rebounds like his does.

Let's face it: Murph's stock around here is way up in large part due to the "double-double" phenomenon and his being a league leader in rebounds.

Murph needs those stats. Rush, TJ, Jack, Dunleavey, Diener, etc., are judged more by fg percentage, assist to turnover ratio, steals, etc.

So why not let Murph get the rebound? Maybe even his teammates are cool with it.

And, dang, if his contract truly is tied to getting double doubles (this seems like a bad idea for a lot of reasons) then it's not only understandable he steals rebounds, TPTB are basically asking him to do so.

Murph for President.

Noodle
02-22-2009, 11:11 PM
Good job Magic you can clearly see he was playing the ball.

Justin Tyme
02-22-2009, 11:13 PM
Anyone notice that Jack had 5 rebounds and 5 assists and Ford had 8 rebounds and 5 assists? They both had as many rebounds as assists or more rebounds than assists. I'd prefer to see Ford having more assists than rebounds.

B/c of the run n gun and 3 pt shooting both seem to get a lot rebs.

Noodle
02-22-2009, 11:24 PM
Yeah, all our PG's are getting more rebounds lately, including Diener. I've noticed a change in the way we block out. Not really a major change. We're just using a wing players(usually the 3) to seal off opponents from running down long boards, allowing the ball handler to get a few. TJ was all over loose boards offensively. That is one thing I wish he'd use his speed for more often.

rexnom
02-22-2009, 11:25 PM
So if the team ends up getting the rebound, who cares if Troy is "stealing it"? Further, if it ends up boosting his value so we can trade him, isn't that great too. I don't get the big fuss.

GO!!!!!
02-22-2009, 11:28 PM
If anything, when LeBron was going for that err what he Thought was a Tenth Board for his Triple Double a couple weeks back, that was STAT padding, he almost knocked over his team mate for that board... that Play is worth a Reply to compare too what Murph Does, Just my three cents...

SoupIsGood
02-22-2009, 11:30 PM
Yeah, hard to fault him for that. It doesn't look like he could have known TJ's guy fell back. If the other guy (who looks much taller than TJ) were to be contesting that rebound, it'd be silly for troy to sit back and assume TJ'll get it.

HC
02-22-2009, 11:35 PM
I don't see how this can be labeled as stealing. All the players are on the same team, and share one common goal. I guess Murph should just stand there and watch rebounds go over his head. This way everyone will have something else to rag him for, and will eventually drop this argument.

Einstein
02-22-2009, 11:58 PM
Post Game comments:

1.) Murphy stealing rebounds: yeah, he's done it. So what? What about players that steal assists by making an extra pass when its not needed? Those people are REALLY bad teammates.

2.) I love the fight in the Pacers these last couple of games. I guess the one thing I didn't think about was that the defensive intensity could go up with both Dunleavy and Granger out. Now that I think about it, its pretty obvious. I'm just mad that I couldn't see it coming. Getting Quis back and bringing in Rush is making a big impact defensively. I agree with other posters who are bringing this up.

3.) Hibbert is struggling a bit but that is OK. We still need to try to establish him. I believe his presence is important to take pressure off other scorers.

4.) I like Rush overall, but am still down on him offensively. The guy just needs to stop thinking and get to the rim; when he gets to the rim he needs to get his elbow stuck in it.

5.) Hopefully Ford can turn a bit of a corner here. He really needs to be more patient and play to his jumper if he can. Too much speed is a bad thing if it limits your options as you approach the basket. Also, I think the other Pacer players are giving up on the play when Ford drives under the basket. As I look at it, he's often got zero options there.

6.) All that positive vibe being said, I am really dreading the Knicks game here. I just worry that we will be too easy to plan for offensively. I just have to hope the surprise factor about who will be top scorer will help us. Without Granger we are really missing firepower.

Anthem
02-23-2009, 12:00 AM
The Pacers really need another good bigman who is quicker than Rasho and can defend and be a semi-competent scorer.
McBob.

imawhat
02-23-2009, 12:52 AM
Even if that's not the case, I don't have a big problem with him stealing a rebound, which seems to happen once a game or so.

Would be nice if he could steal some boards from his opponents in the 4th quarter rather than his own teammates. I'm sure the Pacers lead the league in offensive rebounds given up in the 4th quarter.

That's why it looks bad.



Able, I must play Devil's advocate. You had to know Murh plays on the perimeter offensively. Yet he still manages to pull down 2 off. rebounds a game. Usually, off of pure instinct or rushing down on the block when a shot is taken to secure the long ones.

As anti-Murphy as I am, I think this is exactly the reason his OR% is so low. He's much better suited to retreat on defense, and as a perimeter player, that is the cost of doing business.


The Pacers played a damn-good defense in Chicago today. They are going to be tough to beat down the stretch, I think.

grace
02-23-2009, 01:02 AM
I'm sure any day now :kravitz: is going to write in his column how it's a travesty to mankind that Murphy steals rebounds.

cramerica
02-23-2009, 01:30 AM
Worst post game thread ever.

duke dynamite
02-23-2009, 01:31 AM
This whole Murphy thing is tearing everyone apart. I think this should be put aside until everyone calms down. I am starting to worry about the integrity of this board with everyone bickering.

Yes, Murphy stole a rebound, maybe more.

Yes, that needs to be addressed, one way or another. There is no way to tell how the other players feel without directly asking them, so in this case it is not safe to assume how this is affecting the locker room.

Maybe someone should call into the show tomorrow night or the Jim O'Brien show Thursday and talk about it. I'll take it upon myself to do so.

No, we should not bicker about it. I feel, and don't throw me under the bus here, is as long as we get the rebound, that is all that matters. Whether it is Murphy or someone else on the team getting the ball, just feel happy that we have an offensive opportunity.

I've read through some of the posts, and there have been quite a few deleted ones by the admins. I really feel like this is something we need to let out of our hands, or we may all end up hating each other.

/soapbox

Shade
02-23-2009, 01:38 AM
Y'know, I've been hoping for the playoffs all season. But when we got word of Granger and Dun being unavailable for a good period of time, I conceded the season and was looking forward to getting a higher pick.

Then we win 2 in a row.

This team makes my head hurt. :headache:

duke dynamite
02-23-2009, 01:40 AM
Y'know, I've been hoping for the playoffs all season. But when we got word of Granger and Dun being unavailable for a good period of time, I conceded the season and was looking forward to getting a higher pick.

Then we win 2 in a row.

This team makes my head hurt. :headache:
Expect the unexpected.

PaceBalls
02-23-2009, 01:45 AM
http://home.comcast.net/%7Emagic_rat/murphystealsrebound.gif

This had me laughing so hard... look at that vulture swooping in.. good stuff

Midcoasted
02-23-2009, 01:54 AM
Murphy's stat line was 27,14, and 3, and people are still dwelling that he steals a rebound now and then? What he'd average 9 boards instead of 10? Give me a break. Troy Murphy is balling this year and I'm glad we have a big that talented again. I really like what Hibbert is doing as well. The future looks bright.

There's so many "observable" things that are way more noteworthy to Troy Murphy. He is shooting like 60 percent from the three in the last so many games. He is averaging a double double, he is playing solid D at time, he is still improving as a player from when we first got him. Murphy has silenced all the ciritics, but the hate for him steal exists. If there wasn't a little bit of spite you would be praising him instead of tripping on this rebound thing. In the past three games he has some big O boards putback for scores so while he isn't necessarily strong there, he isn't weak either. 5 offensive rebounds tonight out of 14? Maybe he took one or two, but he still would have had 12. Would you rather him give up on it then a big fromt he other team steal it from TJ?

Midcoasted
02-23-2009, 01:57 AM
This had me laughing so hard... look at that vulture swooping in.. good stuff

Are you ****ing serious? Watch the own thing you posted. He wasn't even looking at Ford. He was already elevating into his motion before he even saw him there. If you ever played big back in high school, like I did, you always concentrate on the ball first and foremost and try to anticipate where it is going. Then you do anything you can to secure it no matter who is there. Sometimes it is hard to tell if it is your teammate or not when you have full concentration on the ball like Murphy does, I.E. in this very clip.

PaceBalls
02-23-2009, 02:21 AM
Are you ****ing serious? Watch the own thing you posted. He wasn't even looking at Ford. He was already elevating into his motion before he even saw him there. If you ever played big back in high school, like I did, you always concentrate on the ball first and foremost and try to anticipate where it is going. Then you do anything you can to secure it no matter who is there. Sometimes it is hard to tell if it is your teammate or not when you have full concentration on the ball like Murphy does, I.E. in this very clip.

Yeah I like Murphs effort, but that video was hilarious. He went with the follow through even after he saw TJ. I mean you could tell he was thinking that there was no one near him and he was going to get that rebound no matter what, TJ Ford be damned! Don't get me wrong man, I'm one of Murphs fans here. I want us to keep him if he plays this good. I don't mind the rebound vulture tendancies at all. It is what it is though.

ReginaldWayne
02-23-2009, 04:00 AM
This whole Murphy thing is tearing everyone apart. I think this should be put aside until everyone calms down. I am starting to worry about the integrity of this board with everyone bickering.

Yes, Murphy stole a rebound, maybe more.

Yes, that needs to be addressed, one way or another. There is no way to tell how the other players feel without directly asking them, so in this case it is not safe to assume how this is affecting the locker room.

Maybe someone should call into the show tomorrow night or the Jim O'Brien show Thursday and talk about it. I'll take it upon myself to do so.

No, we should not bicker about it. I feel, and don't throw me under the bus here, is as long as we get the rebound, that is all that matters. Whether it is Murphy or someone else on the team getting the ball, just feel happy that we have an offensive opportunity.

I've read through some of the posts, and there have been quite a few deleted ones by the admins. I really feel like this is something we need to let out of our hands, or we may all end up hating each other.

/soapbox

Yea if one of the players were ask, theyd probably say "dude, what in RemovedGods name are you talking about? What exactly are u watching for when you watch the pacers? We dont concern ourselves with this nonsense out on the court."

affecting the locker room? What THE ?

SoupIsGood
02-23-2009, 04:13 AM
I just don't think that's stealing. Maybe I should have seen the rebound in full fps, but I always thought that kind of stuff happens all the time w/ team-mates. You'll get a few awkward moments where two guys attack for the same rebound. If it happens more often w/ Murphy maybe it's just because he pulls in a lot of rebounds and goes for even more.

I mean we're getting angry because the guys does his job well.

Peck
02-23-2009, 06:26 AM
http://home.comcast.net/%7Emagic_rat/murphystealsrebound.gif

Are we supposed to be watching Murphy or are we supposed to watch Roy foul Noah under the board?

Actually while this may or may not be that bad (I can't tell if he rips the ball out of T.J.'s hands here because the video cuts off), I will say that this is not the type of rebound I have been talking about lately.

Troy had inside position on this one and he may or may not have seen T.J. behind him. From what little I can tell on the video it looks like this was just an honest effort to get the board. However I will say I can not be sure with this footage.

What I am talking about is when Troy goes from one side of the court to the other side and the other pacer player already has established position and there is no one else there.

For those of you that say it does not matter, take this into account. I can think of three times this season it has cost us a possesion because the ball has bounced out of bounds because our own players were fighting for it.

D-BONE
02-23-2009, 07:05 AM
With all due respect, this rebound stealing thing is just way out of hand. I don't even think it's an issue in the first place, but it really doesn't deserve this much discussion. I mean..are all our guys that much of stat whores that they really care if Murphy takes a rebound or two from them a game? Is Murphy a rebound whore? Can the guy get a break?

BKK
02-23-2009, 07:13 AM
Worst post game thread ever.

x2

McKeyFan
02-23-2009, 07:13 AM
For those of you that say it does not matter, take this into account. I can think of three times this season it has cost us a possesion because the ball has bounced out of bounds because our own players were fighting for it.

True. But I think you lose several more rebounds when at least one player isn't gung ho determined to snag the rebound.

There's a back and forth, some confusion as to who's ball it is, then an opponent grabs it or it falls out of bounds. Kinda like a pop fly in baseball: someone has to clearly be the guy who grabs it. With us, it may be understood that it's the big.

Will Galen
02-23-2009, 07:47 AM
For those of you that say it does not matter, take this into account. I can think of three times this season it has cost us a possesion because the ball has bounced out of bounds because our own players were fighting for it.

Yes, and it happens when teammates see each other and both let go of the ball at the same time, causing the ball to go out of bounds or worse letting the opponent steal the ball under their basket.

All in all I want players going after the rebound and even taking the ball away from teammates if they can, because THE REBOUND IS MINE is a good mindset to have.

count55
02-23-2009, 08:12 AM
Are we supposed to be watching Murphy or are we supposed to watch Roy foul Noah under the board?

Actually while this may or may not be that bad (I can't tell if he rips the ball out of T.J.'s hands here because the video cuts off), I will say that this is not the type of rebound I have been talking about lately.

Troy had inside position on this one and he may or may not have seen T.J. behind him. From what little I can tell on the video it looks like this was just an honest effort to get the board. However I will say I can not be sure with this footage.

What I am talking about is when Troy goes from one side of the court to the other side and the other pacer player already has established position and there is no one else there.

For those of you that say it does not matter, take this into account. I can think of three times this season it has cost us a possesion because the ball has bounced out of bounds because our own players were fighting for it.

Troy ended up with the rebound on the video shown, and he did take it away from TJ. I remember the play because my brother laughed and commented on Murph taking a rebound from a teammate. My take was that he was just going for the ball, and I didn't really think he knew who the other guy was, so he was just making sure he got possession.

Essentially, my brother and I have joked about Murph attacking defensive rebounds, regardless of who the other guy is. He does do it, and on occasion it's a little unseemly and exasperating, but it doesn't seem to be a huge issue within the team.

My take is that, while contract considerations may be a motivating factor (as it would be with all of us), the main reason Murph does this is simply because rebounding is something he does well. I'm sure he's well aware of his limitations as a defender and a post player. What I think he does is try to maximize his positives. I believe he's largely worked hard on his negatives, specifically defense, but he's not going to get a lot of mileage out of that simply because of his basic physical limitations. Therefore, I think he's doing what he thinks he can to help the team.

Everybody has irritating quirks that develop in their game. On the whole, I can live with this from Murph, assuming that it's not creating a great deal of emnity with his teammates (though I'm sure they find it irritating, from time to time). While it may hurt us sometimes, I think that it's a side effect of a part of T-Murda's game that is an overall benefit to the Pacers.

He is what he is. If he made what Foster was making, I think most of us would love him...or at least would be satisfied with him.

cramerica
02-23-2009, 08:27 AM
Y'know, I've been hoping for the playoffs all season. But when we got word of Granger and Dun being unavailable for a good period of time, I conceded the season and was looking forward to getting a higher pick.

Then we win 2 in a row.

This team makes my head hurt. :headache:
I have the same sentiments. I was completely expecting to come into work seeing that they lost (last two games actually) and then I see that they won. I think a higher draft pick would be better for us, yet we keep winning these games that we should lose. Hopefully this works out for us. I want them to keep winning to put my butts in the seats of Conseco, but I don't know if that's the best thing for the team.

MagicRat
02-23-2009, 08:31 AM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9_mB_5v1nJg&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9_mB_5v1nJg&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

count55
02-23-2009, 08:37 AM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9_mB_5v1nJg&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9_mB_5v1nJg&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

I'm assuming you put this together, and I wanted to thank you for your work.

I would ask Hicks if the one that he was thinking about was the one with TJ...(the same one my brother commented on). Just for clarification, not for argument.

2minutes twowa
02-23-2009, 08:49 AM
Great game and I was lucky enought to be there. Nice attendance, even though it was probably 40% Bulls fans. When TJ made the steal and throw down, the fieldhouse was louder than I've heard in a while. I hope Hibbert works feverishly on his post game this off season. He wasn't much of a threat in this game, but they still started doubling him. There was no one on the Bulls that could match up with him.

HC
02-23-2009, 09:19 AM
Y'know, I've been hoping for the playoffs all season. But when we got word of Granger and Dun being unavailable for a good period of time, I conceded the season and was looking forward to getting a higher pick.

Then we win 2 in a row.

This team makes my head hurt. :headache:

3 of 4, 5 of 8....I know what you mean.

Country Boy
02-23-2009, 09:32 AM
I should just leave this alone, however after viewing the rebound that Murph supposedly stole, I can't believe that anyone would classify this as stealing a rebound. It is obvious to me that most here are fans of the game and have never played competitively at any level. That is not a slam against anyone here, just my opinion based on some of the comments in this thread.

I think my ufo and defense lawyer post was right on and I am owed an apology from Able for swooping in giving me an infraction. If he would have thought about it before pulling the trigger he would have seen that it was not malicious but an attempt to show the fallacy in trying to judge whether a player steals rebounds by a lay person, ie fan. UFO sightings and eye witness accounts are always subject to be met with skepticism, and that was my point, not trying to show someone up or set them straight.

McKeyFan
02-23-2009, 09:42 AM
Magic Rat, your vid really provides great context.

Murphy is a guy who just goes after rebounds. A beautiful thing. The one with TJ he just went after like all the rest.

duke dynamite
02-23-2009, 10:52 AM
Yea if one of the players were ask, theyd probably say "dude, what in RemovedGods name are you talking about? What exactly are u watching for when you watch the pacers? We dont concern ourselves with this nonsense out on the court."

affecting the locker room? What THE ?
If that is the case, why is everyone concerning themselves with this, then?

Shade
02-23-2009, 11:03 AM
Are we actually complaining about a guy's work ethic being too hard now?

Wow.

count55
02-23-2009, 11:06 AM
Are we actually complaining about a guy's work ethic being too hard now?

Wow.

Yup, we're just that good.

Speed
02-23-2009, 11:25 AM
I wish I was on here earlier to take a side. Troy is a rebound vulture, it is what it is.

You could find 50 plus rebound where he's taking it away from his own player this year.

Not the end of the world mind you, but a fact.

I haven't seen anyone deny it happens, just whether it's okay or not.

It's not even a criticizm unless they start losing the ball out of bounds..... like yesterday.

Watch a Free Throw tonight, when the guy Troy is boxing out doesn't even go for the ball, Troy will go after the rebound no matter where it goes. Not a bad thing, but if Jeff is on the other side by himself and Troy jump across the lane to take it from him on a free throw, that RV ing.

Now, Dale Davis would secure a rebound with 2 of the OTHER team's players hangin off of him in the last two minutes of the game. DD was the best close out rebounder i think I have ever seen, maybe in the league.

I like Troy, he's playing great. His top of the key, three in transition is such a weapon this year. I even think his defense it much improved.

But since when is an observation of a player, saying that player is bad or a bad guy.

That is one trend that is troublesome to me. If the Pacers win, but someone says something that could be better, there are torches being lit by the townspeople.

If they lose, it's one big Obie gripefest.

I mean if I say I wish TJ was taller, will I get ripped for not liking the team or TJ.

Come on, see the big picture here.

No one is saying Murph is a jerk or trying to be disruptive, but you can't deny what is happening.

You can say you don't like it or you do like it, but it is happening, regardless.

Lastly, I 100% believe his teammates know it. I heard Jack yell in the last couple of games GET IT, MURPH- as Jack is backing away from going for it.

OakMoses
02-23-2009, 11:27 AM
It was a good win today. I don't think we're much worse off without Granger. All he brings is offense and we've got plenty of other guys who can score. And the movement is much better when they aren't standing around waiting for Danny to shoot. I'm not going to say we're better with him hurt but I don't think we're much worse.

It's too bad Quisy is such a horrific outside shooter (and I realize he hit a couple today). He's better in every phase of the game than Danny except for shooting.


I'm not really buying either of these statements. Ultimately we are a much better team with Granger. I do think you've got a point, however, about the movement being better now. I also think that the movement was better earlier in the season. At some point this season, it seems like everybody figured out that Danny was really good. Once this happened, our motion-oriented collegiate-style offense stopped working as well as it should because we were trying to force the ball to Danny more. I don't think this is anybody's fault. The guys on the team are deferring to Danny more, but the offense works better when every player is a threat to shoot or attack at any time. Hopefully when Danny comes back the team can remember how they've been playing and just let the offense flow like it should.

If we keep this up, it's going to be a rehash of the "We're better without JO" discussion. The difference at this point, as I see it, is that I don't think Danny demands the ball like JO did. I think his teammates are just giving it too him.

To address your other point, 'Quis is only better at 3 things than Danny. "Every phase of the game" is a huge stretch. Quis is a better finisher, a better perimeter defender, and better at getting deflections. Every other skill/ability is either a wash or Danny is clearly better.

My main complaint about 'Quis is that he seems to have to be 100% healthy to be effective. When he's 100%, he's a very good player. However, when he's dealing with an injury, he'll reel off a series of horrendous games and you wonder how he even really made it to the NBA. He'd never give you half as much as Danny has with the same knee injury.

As for the game, it was very impressive. I actually thought Jack's defense on Gordon was very good for the whole game. The problem in the first half was that Gordon was making some unreal shots. I've always wondered why a D'Antoni-style team doesn't trade for Gordon. I don't think it's any stretch to say that he'd average 30+ ppg if he played for New York or Golden State.

One thing I really liked this game was that O'Brien stuck with 2 bigs at the end of the game. It's obvious that in end game situations he's going to stick with guys he trusts. The only 2 big guys on the roster that he trusts are Murphy and Foster. Hopefully if Foster's healthy we'll see less smallball at the end of games.

naptownmenace
02-23-2009, 11:28 AM
I saw it happen less than 5 hours ago. So either call me a liar and be done with it, or get a grip on reality. He does it. It's been seen.

I'll back you up. He does it at least once a game.

I don't really care because I've been watching Foster do it for years.

ReginaldWayne
02-23-2009, 11:32 AM
If that is the case, why is everyone concerning themselves with this, then?

because there are those few fans, like Peck, who are jsut speculating this nonsense.

You think the players actually give a flying **** ?

ReginaldWayne
02-23-2009, 11:35 AM
I'll back you up. He does it at least once a game.

I don't really care because I've been watching Foster do it for years.

ok so hes done minimum 60 times this yr. yea, sure. :laugh:

Country Boy
02-23-2009, 11:35 AM
I wish I was on here earlier to take a side. Troy is a rebound vulture, it is what it is.

You could find 50 plus rebound where he's taking it away from his own player this year.

Not the end of the world mind you, but a fact.

I haven't seen anyone deny it happens, just whether it's okay or not.

It's not even a criticizm unless they start losing the ball out of bounds..... like yesterday.

Watch a Free Throw tonight, when the guy Troy is boxing out doesn't even go for the ball, Troy will go after the rebound no matter where it goes. Not a bad thing, but if Jeff is on the other side by himself and Troy jump across the lane to take it from him on a free throw, that RV ing.

Now, Dale Davis would secure a rebound with 2 of the OTHER team's players hangin off of him in the last two minutes of the game. DD was the best close out rebounder i think I have ever seen, maybe in the league.

I like Troy, he's playing great. His top of the key, three in transition is such a weapon this year. I even think his defense it much improved.

But since when is an observation of a player, saying that player is bad or a bad guy.

That is one trend that is troublesome to me. If the Pacers win, but someone says something that could be better, there are torches being lit by the townspeople.

If they lose, it's one big Obie gripefest.

I mean if I say I wish TJ was taller, will I get ripped for not liking the team or TJ.

Come on, see the big picture here.

No one is saying Murph is a jerk or trying to be disruptive, but you can't deny what is happening.

You can say you don't like it or you do like it, but it is happening, regardless.

Lastly, I 100% believe his teammates know it. I heard Jack yell in the last couple of games GET IT, MURPH- as Jack is backing away from going for it.

You throw out this **(( without one fact or stat or player saying that Murph is what you say he is. What you view as rebound stealing is not gospel it is just your opinion, and for you to make unfounded statements and griping because posters don't agree is just wrong. Did you watch the video in the post game thread? If this is what you call stealing rebounds, a refresher course in basketball is in order.

Speed
02-23-2009, 11:38 AM
ok so hes done minimum 60 times this yr. yea, sure. :laugh:

I'd guess probably 50 times so far. 58 games so far. I've seen him knock Dun and Granger almost down in the same game before, but I can think of games I don't remember him clearly doing it, either. So ya, 60 over a full season, that sound about right.

WetBob
02-23-2009, 11:42 AM
I'd guess probably 50 times so far. 58 games so far. I've seen him knock Dun and Granger almost down in the same game before, but I can think of games I don't remember him clearly doing it, either. So ya, 60 over a full season, that sound about right.

Without question.

It is probably actually higher. Maybe even two or three times higher.

Speed
02-23-2009, 11:42 AM
You throw out this **(( without one fact or stat or player saying that Murph is what you say he is. What you view as rebound stealing is not gospel it is just your opinion, and for you to make unfounded statements and griping because posters don't agree is just wrong. Did you watch the video in the post game thread? If this is what you call stealing rebounds, a refresher course in basketball is in order.


:dance:

Now for your enjoyment, a dancing bannana, while I take a refresher course in basketball.


Woohoo!!! :rolleyes:

Speed
02-23-2009, 11:43 AM
Without question.

It is probably actually higher. Maybe even two or three times higher.

I was trying to error on the conservative side, but I agree.

Let me reiterate, I like Murph.

Anthem
02-23-2009, 11:49 AM
I'm completely comfortable with every one of those rebounds. Good job Murph.

Odd that I'm the guy who's happy with Murph and Peck's the guy who's not. Weird times.

WetBob
02-23-2009, 11:52 AM
I was trying to error on the conservative side, but I agree.

Let me reiterate, I like Murph.

I love Murph. You know exactly what you are gonna get out of him, and it will be production on offense and a lot of jack **** on defense.

But the fact remains, he is indeed a rebound vulture (extremely appropriate name by the way) and it isn't bashing him or taking a run at him or anything negative to point it out.

Speed
02-23-2009, 11:53 AM
It really doesn't bother me either, unless they start losing possessions or it becomes blatant stat padding ONLY.

I really don't think it's to the point at all, though.

I think Murph seems like probably a great team/lockeroom guy.

Justin Tyme
02-23-2009, 11:58 AM
Worst post game thread ever.



WITHOUT A DOUBT!!!!

Maybe the next post game thread we can debate O'Brien's ugly ties.

Country Boy
02-23-2009, 12:05 PM
I love Murph. You know exactly what you are gonna get out of him, and it will be production on offense and a lot of jack **** on defense.

But the fact remains, he is indeed a rebound vulture (extremely appropriate name by the way) and it isn't bashing him or taking a run at him or anything negative to point it out.

Fact? Prove it then.

WetBob
02-23-2009, 12:16 PM
Fact? Prove it then.

Watch the games. It is blatant. If you don't see it, you're trying not to.

Country Boy
02-23-2009, 12:17 PM
Watch the games. It is blatant. If you don't see it, you're trying not to.

Again, provide some proof if it is that blatant. What you consider as being a rv and what is reality are not one and the same.

WetBob
02-23-2009, 12:20 PM
Again, provide some proof if it is that blatant. What you consider as being a rv and what is reality are not one and the same.

What proof do you want me to provide? How are you supposed to prove observations? I've seen it with my own eyes.

Country Boy
02-23-2009, 12:26 PM
What proof do you want me to provide? How are you supposed to prove observations? I've seen it with my own eyes.

Well, I observed that the sun came up this morning, does that make me an expert about the sun? Again, your ovservation doesn't mean jack to me. Your view on what stealing a rebound and reality are not one and the same. The video in this thread supposedly was shown as evidence of Troy stealing a rebound, now do you think he stole that board? Please answer this time.

grace
02-23-2009, 12:53 PM
Good Lord I miss the "Ignore This Thread" feature. And before someone says "just don't read it" that's like driving by a wreck and not looking.

Speed
02-23-2009, 12:56 PM
What stinks is it could have been a good discussion, instead it turns into well like you said a wreck.

I'm thinking that may take care of itself the way things are heading though....

What's the old saying give someone enough rope and they will hang themselves.

count55
02-23-2009, 12:58 PM
Good Lord I miss the "Ignore This Thread" feature. And before someone says "just don't read it" that's like driving by a wreck and not looking.

QFT

duke dynamite
02-23-2009, 01:11 PM
Good Lord I miss the "Ignore This Thread" feature. And before someone says "just don't read it" that's like driving by a wreck and not looking.
+1

Major Cold
02-23-2009, 01:22 PM
Whoever opened this can of worms should be banned :).

duke dynamite
02-23-2009, 01:26 PM
Whoever opened this can of worms should be banned :).
That would be a lot of users...lol

http://larcho.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/can_of_worms_ahead.jpg

I would've went with Pandora's Box as well...

Major Cold
02-23-2009, 01:30 PM
Random bits:

1) There were quite a few people here today, so if the sales number was 17,000, I believe it.

2) I was an actual witness to Murphy stealing a rebound from a teammate. Just one, but I did see it. He does do that in situations where there are no opponents around and the teammate is about to get it (and has position). So for anyone who doubts that he does it, he does it.
Here is the culprit...:pissed::lynchmob:

duke dynamite
02-23-2009, 01:32 PM
Here is the culprit...:pissed::lynchmob:
Wasn't it Peter Parker's Uncle Ben that said "With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility"?

That was a big can of worms, indeed.


:P

Country Boy
02-23-2009, 01:34 PM
Here is the culprit...:pissed::lynchmob:

No it was me and I accept all of the blame for starting this pee fest with this post, an infraction btw:

Originally Posted by Country Boy
Yeah, and I saw an UFO the other night. Come on Hicks, that's a cheap shot at Murph. You do know what defense attorneys do with eye witness, don't you?


Sorry guys.

duke dynamite
02-23-2009, 01:36 PM
No it was me and I accept all of the blame for starting this pee fest with this post, an infraction btw:

Originally Posted by Country Boy
Yeah, and I saw an UFO the other night. Come on Hicks, that's a cheap shot at Murph. You do know what defense attorneys do with eye witness, don't you?


Sorry guys.
We all remember as if it were yesterday.

...wait.

Will Galen
02-23-2009, 01:39 PM
Here is the culprit...:pissed::lynchmob:


No it was me and I accept all of the blame for starting this pee fest with this post . . .

Although it was good of CB to try and take the blame, no to both, Hicks was just confirming something somebody else said. The can of worms was opened by whoever made the first observation that Murph was stealing rebounds, and that was way before this thread.

Anthem
02-23-2009, 01:39 PM
Here is the culprit...:pissed::lynchmob:
:banhim:

Anthem
02-23-2009, 01:41 PM
Nope, Hicks was just confirming something somebody else said. The can of worms was opened by whoever made the first observation that Murph was stealing rebounds, and that was way before this thread..
Doesn't help any, as I'm pretty sure that guy is Peck... :laugh:

Perhaps we can declare this topic anathema and give everyone a one-week cooling-off period?

grace
02-23-2009, 01:42 PM
Nope, Hicks was just confirming something somebody else said. The can of worms was opened by whoever made the first observation that Murph was stealing rebounds, and that was way before this thread..

More times than not in sports it's the person who responds that gets the penalty; therefore I'd call a penalty on Hicks, but since you can't :ignore: an admin let alone something more severe, :shrug:.

Speed
02-23-2009, 01:43 PM
No to both, Hicks was just confirming something somebody else said. The can of worms was opened by whoever made the first observation that Murph was stealing rebounds, and that was way before this thread.

What?!?!? I'm not sure who that was, but I do like the nickname someone coined!!

Major Cold
02-23-2009, 01:50 PM
This thread could be salvaged after all?

croz and I discussed this at one time, so I know this is not the first. I clearly was trying to change the subject before someone got banned or labeled a troll/homer.

Will Galen
02-23-2009, 01:51 PM
Doesn't help any, as I'm pretty sure that guy is Peck... :laugh:

Peck might have been the one to coin the phrase, 'stealing rebounds' but I think it started way earlier (Maybe last summer)when someone said that Murph doesn't get the tough rebounds.

I think it was one of the long winded guys who said it first, and Peck jumped on the idea.

Anthem
02-23-2009, 01:51 PM
Not to obviously change the topic or anything, but how did Rush and Hibbert look yesterday? I missed the game... noon games are killer for me.

Anybody wanna comment on the rookies?

count55
02-23-2009, 02:02 PM
Not to obviously change the topic or anything, but how did Rush and Hibbert look yesterday? I missed the game... noon games are killer for me.

Anybody wanna comment on the rookies?

- Rush was hit and miss. He's so close to being a good player, it's frustrating. It seems to me that he can't quite finish plays, at either end. On offense, it's about making the shot, and I thought Quinn was right in his comments Friday night about him needing to not worry about getting his shot blocked at the rim. On defense, there were several possessions where he would play well for most of the possession, only to get impatient and foul or get out of position at the last second. Overall, I thought it was an OK performance.

- Roy had his worst shooting day, but I was really pleased with him overall. He made some dumb fouls, and couldn't buy a shot, but he kept his head in the game and generally had a positive impact. O'Brien seems to acknowledge that he is probably our best option in the half court, and I was pleased to see him get time in the fourth. It's been too slow in coming, but I think Obie's getting more comfortable with him.

count55
02-23-2009, 02:07 PM
Doesn't help any, as I'm pretty sure that guy is Peck... :laugh:

Perhaps we can declare this topic anathema and give everyone a one-week cooling-off period?

Nice use of the word "anathema."

I've been listening to the History of England, and the Isles spent a good portion of the 16th and 17th centuries anathematizing and being anathematized.

Isn't it weird how you hear something that is relatively obscure or rare, then you hear it somewhere else in a completely unrelated context almost immediately?

Speed
02-23-2009, 02:10 PM
Nice use of the word "anathema."

I've been listening to the History of England, and the Isles spent a good portion of the 16th and 17th centuries anathematizing and being anathematized.

Isn't it weird how you hear something that is relatively obscure or rare, then you hear it somewhere else in a completely unrelated context almost immediately?


My favorite color is red.

count55
02-23-2009, 02:18 PM
My favorite color is red.

Yeah, I know...

Nothing good was going to come of me listening to 30 hours of a wordy Brit, but what are you gonna do when you're in a car 3 1/2 hours a day?

;)

Speed
02-23-2009, 02:27 PM
Yeah, I know...

Nothing good was going to come of me listening to 30 hours of a wordy Brit, but what are you gonna do when you're in a car 3 1/2 hours a day?

;)

I celebrate your learnedness, it brings our average up!! :)

OakMoses
02-23-2009, 02:32 PM
Anybody wanna comment on the rookies?

Count55 pretty much summed it up.

Rush probably had his worst game defensively since I've really started watching him. He got beat a few times and made a couple very poor fouling choices. That being said, it was still probably an average defensive game for an NBA player. The thing with Rush is that he just oozes potential. He seems to be able to cover an inordinate amount of space with one step. In the future I see this being very effective in creating space for step back jumpers and crossovers. Offensively he was par for the course. Did some good things and also played too passively at times and passed up some shots he should take.

Hibbert looked more one dimensional offensively than he's seemed in the past. He really just relied on the hook shot and nothing else. Brad Miller's really the type of center he should do well against, but he wasn't able to successfully back him down nor could he shoot over him with any accuracy. He did successfully take a charge, which was impressive. One thing I always love about Hibbert is his on the bench demeanor. When a guy does something good on the court, Roy is probably the most excited guy in the arena. He doesn't sit on the bench and mope, he's always engaged in the game.

Speed
02-23-2009, 02:36 PM
I can't say much more than has been said about the Rooks, but echo the potential thing with Brush.

I keep waiting for him to have a break out game offensively where those sweet looking shots all go in. I keep thinking he's going to drop 30 on someone one night.

Hibbert gave Brad Miller some fouls which I thought was impressive, just because I don't really think 2 of them were fouls, but Roy kind of selling them as more drastic contact than they were. I think next year with more experience for Roy, a guy like Brad Miller won't be able to guard him with how big Roy is. Roy also was on the verge of being exposed on the other end on the pick and Pop by Miller though.

OakMoses
02-23-2009, 02:50 PM
Hibbert gave Brad Miller some fouls which I thought was impressive, just because I don't really think 2 of them were fouls, but Roy kind of selling them as more drastic contact than they were. I think next year with more experience for Roy, a guy like Brad Miller won't be able to guard him with how big Roy is.

Quinn made an interesting point about Brad guarding Roy during the game. It was after Roy had just tried one of his shoulder shimmy moves. Quinn said, "He (Roy) needs to learn that he's not going to fake out Brad Miller because Miller's too slow. He's just going to stand there."

Speed
02-23-2009, 02:56 PM
Quinn made an interesting point about Brad guarding Roy during the game. It was after Roy had just tried one of his shoulder shimmy moves. Quinn said, "He (Roy) needs to learn that he's not going to fake out Brad Miller because Miller's too slow. He's just going to stand there."

Ya, that makes alot of sense to me, too. No need to shot fake or fake one way and go the other, just power the hook over the top. Brad is smarter than that, along with being too slow to recover if he even went for a fake.

I would bet Roy will get smarter and know next time to just power up the hook over the top. I really can't see Brad being able to do anything about it, except a lower body root canal (credit to Clark, I think), which would hopefully get called a foul.

Justin Tyme
02-23-2009, 05:19 PM
Not to obviously change the topic or anything, but how did Rush and Hibbert look yesterday? I missed the game... noon games are killer for me.

Anybody wanna comment on the rookies?


Such a lack of confidence in his play. It was like him driving to the basket then becoming indecisive about whether to dunk it or lay it in. He decides not to dunk it, misses the basket, and I'm screaming at him (like he could hear me) to dunk the darn ball.

Roy was blah and fouled too much. Wasn't a real force on offense or defense. Missed 2 FT with 1 going down in the basket to only come out. So much better shooting FT since BK has been working with him. Instead of me dreading him shooting FA, I feel good about him making them now.

Midcoasted
02-23-2009, 05:27 PM
Not to obviously change the topic or anything, but how did Rush and Hibbert look yesterday? I missed the game... noon games are killer for me.

Anybody wanna comment on the rookies?

Anthem don't listen to the negative spin. Roy was actually in for most of the second half before he picked up his 5th foul. He was also very solid defensively. There is one thing about our rooks that has been consistent. They both played really good one on one defense. Hibbert was looking good going after O-rebounds and he had an off offensive game.

If you remember how bad Danny sucked it up offensively his first two years, then you look at the potential in Rush and Hibbert, and how well they play defense, you know they are both going to progress offensively very nicely in the years to come. They are both gaining confidence by the day and I'm praying for JOBs sake and our own that he doesn't bury the rooks again.

danman
02-23-2009, 09:19 PM
Rush had another buzzkill vapor lock and missed a layup that should have been a dunk. He's still lost, though he moved his feet on D. I don't think he's lost his confidence, though.

Roy was ineffective. His recent progress on the offensive side was not in evidence. He still struggles to get up and down the floor in this system... Foster easily outruns him at age 32. In on the ball defense, Roy is not making as many stupid mistakes as he did at the start of the season. In help defense, he's still useless... too slow and too much of a rookie to anticipate. He's not a natural rebounder, either.

Overall, I don't want too sound to negative on Roy. He reminds one of Smits in many ways, but he's more coordinated and athletic. He's also got a good demeanor.

Neither of them have really raised my hopes much yet. But give the rooks an offseason to work on theiir games, clear their heads, and then we'll know a lot more. They played enough in college, so they should make a decent jump up after this season.

Erik
02-23-2009, 10:35 PM
I took my son to his first game today and we were picked for the Kia seat upgrade to sit courtside! Did anyone see me?

I'll change the subject, I wanna know if any of you guys saw me in my 15 minutes of fame or not...It was great!

duke dynamite
02-23-2009, 10:43 PM
I'll change the subject, I wanna know if any of you guys saw me in my 15 minutes of fame or not...It was great!
No. Sorry.

Anthem
02-23-2009, 11:11 PM
Neither of them have really raised my hopes much yet. But give the rooks an offseason to work on theiir games, clear their heads, and then we'll know a lot more. They played enough in college, so they should make a decent jump up after this season.
Yep. They missed Summer League, too, because we didn't have rights to them until late.

Hicks
02-23-2009, 11:32 PM
Yeah, Erik, I remember seeing you and your son as you won those courtside seats.

Erik
02-23-2009, 11:38 PM
Yeah, Erik, I remember seeing you and your son as you won those courtside seats.
Sweet. Thanks, I feel better now;)