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View Full Version : The Tinsley trade that almost happened



vnzla81
02-21-2009, 11:47 AM
According to Bob Kravits in his radio show yesterday, the Pacers were 3 to 10 minutes away of trading Jamaal Tinsley, the deal was going to be with Orlando for JJ Redick and two other expiring contracts for Jamaal Tinsley, Graham and Baston. It seems that the deal did not go trought because in the last minutes the Houston Rockets offered Alston for the price of nothing and broke the deal, that is the reason why Larry was saying in the newspaper that he felt like he wanted to throw up.

Let me know what you guys think?

jhondog28
02-21-2009, 11:58 AM
I think Larry had a great deal in the works there. I love Redick and I think he would be a good fit here. loves the up tempo and has a nice shooting stroke. he needs others to help him get his shot though. But with JOBs motion offense I think that may have worked out pretty well. I will say the two expirings would have been excellent to have. To bad Houston screwed it up for us.

Shade
02-21-2009, 11:59 AM
Freaking Rockets. That's Ridickulous.

Will Galen
02-21-2009, 12:02 PM
I hate reading about Pacer trades that almost happened. But I can't not read them. No wonder Larry felt like throwing up!

Ransom
02-21-2009, 12:07 PM
That would have been a good trade, if that was indeed about to happen.

BlueNGold
02-21-2009, 12:07 PM
If that type of trade is possible, there is hope.

vnzla81
02-21-2009, 12:10 PM
If that type of trade is possible, there is hope.

Is going to be hard now, we may need to wait another year to see this happening

Dr. Goldfoot
02-21-2009, 12:15 PM
That type of trade isn't possible.

Orlando has three expirings equaling 3,741,373.
Redick gets 2,139,720.

That equals 5,881,093.

Tinsley gets 6,750,000.

That alone wouldn't work and when you add in even more salary from Graham & Baston it certainly doesn't work.

vnzla81
02-21-2009, 12:18 PM
That type of trade isn't possible.

Orlando has three expirings equaling 3,741,373.
Redick gets 2,139,720.

That equals 5,881,093.

Tinsley gets 6,750,000.

That alone wouldn't work and when you add in even more salary from Graham & Baston it certainly doesn't work.

One of the expirings was the guy they send to the Rockets , remember that was before they traded for Alston, the guy was Brian Cook and 3.5mil a year

indygeezer
02-21-2009, 12:21 PM
Now I wanna throw up.

Dr. Goldfoot
02-21-2009, 12:23 PM
Cook isn't an expiring. He has a player option that I'm sure he'll exercise.

vnzla81
02-21-2009, 12:24 PM
Now I wanna throw up.

not just that. Can you imagine JOB playing Diener,JJ,Dunleavy,Murphy and Foster at the same time?:laugh:

Kegboy
02-21-2009, 12:27 PM
Even though the idea of JJ Redick makes me want to throw up, still, that's depressing.

shockedandchagrined
02-21-2009, 12:31 PM
It's ironic that a day after Kravitz writes that no one is dumb or desperate enough to take Tinsley, he reports that a trade for Tinsley was actually in the works. Which is it Bob? Or are you always the last to know.

To me this reinforces one thing - Tinsley can be traded. In the NBA there is almost always going to be someone dumb or (more likely) desperate enough to give an ostracized player a second chance.

Major Cold
02-21-2009, 12:33 PM
not just that. Can you imagine JOB playing Diener,JJ,Dunleavy,Murphy and Foster at the same time?:laugh:

What are you getting at here?

vnzla81
02-21-2009, 12:35 PM
What are you getting at here?

that their defense was going to be better......................:D

jhondog28
02-21-2009, 12:43 PM
That we would be the only team that could have turned out the lights in Conseco and still been able to play a game.

Hicks
02-21-2009, 12:44 PM
According to Bob Kravits in his radio show yesterday, the Pacers were 3 to 10 minutes away of trading Jamaal Tinsley, the deal was going to be with Orlando for JJ Redick and two other expiring contracts for Jamaal Tinsley, Graham and Baston. It seems that the deal did not go trought because in the last minutes the Houston Rockets offered Alston for the price of nothing and broke the deal, that is the reason why Larry was saying in the newspaper that he felt like he wanted to throw up.

Let me know what you guys think?

I feel like I want to throw up. That would have been a good trade. Damn.

Hicks
02-21-2009, 12:46 PM
Oh, and curse that Larry Bird and his lack of trying to make moves! CURSE HIM!!!! [/sarcasm]

plutarch
02-21-2009, 12:58 PM
damn rockets, i like larry as gm maybe its just me but i liked the moves he did so far and with if this trade happened i would have given him an extension after his last year

vnzla81
02-21-2009, 01:03 PM
damn rockets, i like larry as gm maybe its just me but i liked the moves he did so far and with if this trade happened i would have given him an extension after his last year

I agree. I don't understand the Rockets move. Why are they going to trade their starting point guard for not reason? That was a gift from the Rockets, just like Memphis did with Gasol

idioteque
02-21-2009, 01:07 PM
Man, that would have been a good trade. ****ing Houston!

None of those players would have stuck but I have always thought Reddick would be as good as he could be in our system.

shockedandchagrined
02-21-2009, 01:17 PM
One other thing and this just speaks to the general misfortune of the Pacers, if the timing of McGrady's season ending announcement is delayed by a week or so, it's unlikely that Houston considers this direction.

BRushWithDeath
02-21-2009, 01:24 PM
Man, that would have been a good trade. ****ing Houston!

None of those players would have stuck but I have always thought Reddick would be as good as he could be in our system.

I see no reason why Redick couldn't stick in our system. Now that he's got time in Orlando he seems like he'll be able to stick there. There will be always be a team that can use a player who can do what he can. He'll have a long career.

Peck
02-21-2009, 01:52 PM
That type of trade isn't possible.

Orlando has three expirings equaling 3,741,373.
Redick gets 2,139,720.

That equals 5,881,093.

Tinsley gets 6,750,000.

That alone wouldn't work and when you add in even more salary from Graham & Baston it certainly doesn't work.

However don't we have a 2.7 million trade exemption from the O'Neal trade?

Roaming Gnome
02-21-2009, 02:02 PM
I agree. I don't understand the Rockets move. Why are they going to trade their starting point guard for not reason? That was a gift from the Rockets, just like Memphis did with Gasol

Aaron Brooks was ready to start. Rockets were clearing the way for him.

vnzla81
02-21-2009, 02:03 PM
However don't we have a 2.7 million trade exemption from the O'Neal trade?

yeah. They were going to make this trade work not matter what. It was just bad luck that the Rockets traded their point guard there.

LG33
02-21-2009, 02:03 PM
The Magic are fools anyways. Rafer is going to be a backup next season, or does his contract expire?

d_c
02-21-2009, 02:05 PM
However don't we have a 2.7 million trade exemption from the O'Neal trade?

A trade exemption can't be combined with other salaries in order to take back a salary (or salaries) that is larger than the exemption itself. To put simply, a trade exemption doesn't come into play whenever it's smaller than the salary coming back the other way.

Hicks
02-21-2009, 02:11 PM
A trade exemption can't be combined with other salaries in order to take back a salary (or salaries) that is larger than the exemption itself. To put simply, a trade exemption doesn't come into play whenever it's smaller than the salary coming back the other way.

That's what making two separate trades to step around the system is for.

Anyway, I think someone else already provided another explanation in Brian Cook, I believe?

LG33
02-21-2009, 02:13 PM
Brian Cook + expirings for Tinsley

Redick for Trade Exception

Right?

d_c
02-21-2009, 04:04 PM
Brian Cook + expirings for Tinsley

Redick for Trade Exception

Right?

That could have happened, yeah.

If they managed to get expirings + Cook that to work, the Pacers wouldn't trade the exception for Redick because the Simons probably wouldn't want to pay the extra cash. It's a money thing these days.

The trade exception is not going to be used by the Pacers.

Naptown_Seth
02-21-2009, 04:14 PM
Freaking Rockets. That's Ridickulous.
FTW

Well this actually makes me feel better because this was a solid, reasonable deal he had on the table. Sometimes you just get jobbed.

Naptown_Seth
02-21-2009, 04:20 PM
On the TE, you can't trade the TE itself, you must trade something, that's my understanding at least. This can be player rights, cash, or a draft pick. It's just that when a contract comes back it can fit into that TE space. If you have multiple pieces I'm not sure you even have to technically split them apart, or maybe you do just on paper.

The key to always remember with a TE is that it can't make ANOTHER salary hole bigger, it can only accommodate salary(ies) up to its space. Like a parking space for contracts. If you've got it then you can park a contract there. Caveat, you can't create a new contract with it, ie sign a free agent into it. Contract must exist, even if its coming from waviers.


the Pacers wouldn't trade the exception for Redick because the Simons probably wouldn't want to pay the extra cash. It's a money thing these days.
Interesting point. Unless to Larry getting Reddick was part of the enticement, part of what he wanted. So that leads us back to perhaps a sore spot - what if the deal would have already been done if Larry had left it at Tins for Cook+expirings, period, but then he pushed to get JJ back as well to feel like it was a fair deal?

There's a bait shop size can of worms to open.

Naptown_Seth
02-21-2009, 04:23 PM
What are you getting at here?
That the team trainer would have to stock more sunblock for the west coast and Florida road trips.

switch
02-21-2009, 05:42 PM
What are you getting at here?

we would have one of, if not the, most athletic lineup in the nba

HC
02-21-2009, 10:41 PM
Well Orlando hasn't helped themeselves all that much. Tinsley makes Alston and Lue look like borderline D-League talent. Orlando is thinking they can just band aid their situation and make it work, but I don't see it happening. If they were truly committed to going deep in the playoffs, then Tinsley would have been the clear option imo.

sloopjohnb
02-22-2009, 12:46 AM
Well Orlando hasn't helped themeselves all that much. Tinsley makes Alston and Lue look like borderline D-League talent. Orlando is thinking they can just band aid their situation and make it work, but I don't see it happening. If they were truly committed to going deep in the playoffs, then Tinsley would have been the clear option imo.

I don't think Orlando did anything bad with their trades to get Lue or Alston. They didn't give up any of their core players, and I believe both have expiring contracts, which should allow them to afford to re-sign Turkoglu (who has a player option for next season). Personally, I think Orlando is looking at their point guards and hoping one of those three players will be their backup next year after Nelson returns.

BlueNGold
02-22-2009, 12:47 AM
Tinsley is definitely better than Alston...but Alston only has one year left on his contract and is the cheaper option. I don't think it matters anyway because King James will be getting fitted for a ring in a few months...

Shade
02-22-2009, 12:47 AM
I wonder if this would have tied in somehow with the rumored Foster-to-Denver deal.

CableKC
02-22-2009, 02:43 AM
Tinsley is definitely better than Alston...but Alston only has one year left on his contract and is the cheaper option. I don't think it matters anyway because King James will be getting fitted for a ring in a few months...
Alston does one thing better then Tinsley does.....shooting the 3pt ball.....a skill that is needed in the "Dwight Howard dribble dribble, kick it out to the perimeter players for a 3 pt shot" offense.

Overall, I'm sure that Tinsley is the better PG then Alston is.........but he's not so much better that he is worth the baggage and additional $11+ mil that is owed to Tinsley.

Mourning
02-22-2009, 06:44 AM
It's ironic that a day after Kravitz writes that no one is dumb or desperate enough to take Tinsley, he reports that a trade for Tinsley was actually in the works. Which is it Bob? Or are you always the last to know.

To me this reinforces one thing - Tinsley can be traded. In the NBA there is almost always going to be someone dumb or (more likely) desperate enough to give an ostracized player a second chance.

Jamaal will only get easier to trade the further his contract drags on. The coming season it might start getting a lot easier and maybe we might actually get a bit better offers aswell... who knows.

Mourning
02-22-2009, 06:50 AM
I feel like I want to throw up. That would have been a good trade. Damn.

That would have been a VERY, VERY good trade for us.... maldiscontent... GONE... more expirings freeying the franchise more from the financial stranglehold aswell as increasing our flexibility over the summer... damn, damn, damn.... :soapbox:

D-BONE
02-22-2009, 09:37 AM
Alston does one thing better then Tinsley does.....shooting the 3pt ball.....a skill that is needed in the "Dwight Howard dribble dribble, kick it out to the perimeter players for a 3 pt shot" offense.

Overall, I'm sure that Tinsley is the better PG then Alston is.........but he's not so much better that he is worth the baggage and additional $11+ mil that is owed to Tinsley.

I don't even know if I'd say Tins is better. Ironically, IIRC Alston earlier in his career had some important similarities to Tins. Know as a hot-head, me-first, flash-first player. Doesn't he have some NY schoolyard legend background, too?

In the last few seasons he's learned how to play effectively in a team concept, reduce his TOs, be a better floor general type PG, etc. I think, in addition to the 3, he's probably also the better defender.

At any rate, I don't see how acquiring him under the circumstances is either a bad deal generally or a worse deal specifically compared to getting Jamaal instead.

WhatCouldHaveBeen
02-22-2009, 12:28 PM
Tinsley to the magic!!!!!!!!!!! that would have been awesome...I'm a big tinsley fan....and i would for sure go out to the magic games and check em out...but i'm also a big skip to my lou fan...so either way it's awesome:)

CableKC
02-22-2009, 01:00 PM
At any rate, I don't see how acquiring him under the circumstances is either a bad deal generally or a worse deal specifically compared to getting Jamaal instead.
Alston ( for this season ) is supposed to be a "stop-gap" solution for the Magic at the PG spot for the rest of the season. If anything.....whoever the Magic got, he would have been a band-aid until the next season when Jameer returns. Although Tinsley may ( on paper or NBA2k9 FantasyLand where it doesn't matter ) be a overall better PG, he isn't that much better that he is worth taking on the extra $11+ mil that is owed.....which would have amounted to an expensive Band-aid. All they needed was a slightly above average PG solution to hold down the fort for the rest of the season. Adding on Tinsley, despite slightly improving the team over Alston, would have also cost them SalaryCap space in 2010-2011.

pwee31
02-22-2009, 01:05 PM
Jamaal will only get easier to trade the further his contract drags on. The coming season it might start getting a lot easier and maybe we might actually get a bit better offers aswell... who knows.

Only b/c his contract gets shorter. It'll be harder when it comes to him not playing basketball for a full year and maybe more. Hopefully he stays in decent shape.

It'll make matters worse if he gets injured somehow when working out or something and the Pacers are stuck paying him

WhatCouldHaveBeen
02-22-2009, 02:43 PM
I mean we haven't seen tinsley in almost a year now...what makes a team want his crazy contract when we don't know what he looks like? it's a mistake by not playing him...esp since he is known around the league as having a poor work ethic...

indygeezer
02-22-2009, 08:17 PM
After hearing this and thinking about it, I wonder if it might not be a DW type leak to make GM's think about the off-season and to show an arbitrator that "Gosh, we tried to trade him but there were no real takers after Orlando pulled out." Just doesn't seem logical that they would openly speak of a trade that almost happend.

Pacers
02-22-2009, 08:50 PM
Looks like one of the expirings would have had to have been Anthony Johnson.

Anthem
02-23-2009, 12:00 AM
Looks like one of the expirings would have had to have been Anthony Johnson.
Oh, that would have been hilarious.

count55
02-23-2009, 12:02 AM
Oh, that would have been hilarious.

More hilarious than JT coming to Orlando and competing with AJ for the job?

switch
02-23-2009, 02:20 AM
More hilarious than JT coming to Orlando and competing with AJ for the job?

hah this would be much funnier watch/read about!!

Speed
02-23-2009, 09:50 AM
AJ would have came here and appreciated the change in cuacltuches (culture/coaches)

MillerTime
02-23-2009, 09:52 AM
According to Bob Kravits in his radio show yesterday, the Pacers were 3 to 10 minutes away of trading Jamaal Tinsley, the deal was going to be with Orlando for JJ Redick and two other expiring contracts for Jamaal Tinsley, Graham and Baston. It seems that the deal did not go trought because in the last minutes the Houston Rockets offered Alston for the price of nothing and broke the deal, that is the reason why Larry was saying in the newspaper that he felt like he wanted to throw up.

Let me know what you guys think?

This hurts. This would have been the ideal trade for us. I dont understand what the Magic are going to do with Nelson, AJ, Alston and Lue. They're stacked with PGs this season. Although AJ and Lue are expiring, they're still going to have Nelson and Alston for at least this season and next.

Getting JJ for Tinsley (the main peices) would have been ideal for us. With the offense that JOB runs, JJ would have thrived in shooting all those 3's and moving in the motion offense

2minutes twowa
02-23-2009, 10:43 AM
Why Houston? Why?:cry: