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JBones19
02-19-2009, 11:15 AM
Just saw this on CNNSI- http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/ian_thomsen/02/18/trade.deadline.preview/index.html?eref=T1

"Thursday Update: Pacers interested in Chandler

The big surprise of the morning was interest from the Indiana Pacers in making a run at Tyson Chandler, who was back in New Orleans after his trade to Oklahoma City had been rescinded. The Pacers could offer a combination of expiring contracts attached to center Rasho Nesterovic ($8.4 million), forward Marquis Daniels ($6.8 million) and point guard Jarrett Jack ($2 million), in addition to center Jeff Foster.

A potential trade for Chandler would come with a lot of luggage: Would he be able to pass his physical with Indiana, and would the Pacers -- who like a lot of teams are losing money -- be willing to take on salary and bump against the luxury tax ceiling next season? But Chandler would definitely improve the team in the company of a healthy Mike Dunleavy and All-Star Danny Granger next season."

duke dynamite
02-19-2009, 11:17 AM
I would welcome Tyson Chandler...barring his asthma doesn't cause any problems, and he can help Roy develop.

LOCBLB613
02-19-2009, 11:18 AM
im keeping my fingers crossed

naptownmenace
02-19-2009, 11:20 AM
Hmmm... very interesting. We definitely would have what New Orleans would want. Hopefully if we have to trade Rasho's expiring contract, we can package him with Tinsley.

New Orleans could use a good back up PG.

Speed
02-19-2009, 11:21 AM
WOW, I really hope this happens, he is exactly what they need. I think you can play him and Roy together easily.

Roaming Gnome
02-19-2009, 11:22 AM
You know.... OKC rejected that trade for a reason. I just hope we don't overlook some serious injury concerns just to make a move.

PaceBalls
02-19-2009, 11:25 AM
Depending on who we give up, I would love to see an expiring plus Dunleavy for Chandler, I kinda doubt that because of Jr's injuries but who knows, Chandler has a similar injury situation as well so it might work out.

This would give me a bit of hope for this year, but especially for next year.

31andonly
02-19-2009, 11:25 AM
Wow, that would be awesome..let them rest, let's tank and then imagine a healty lineup next year of

Ford
Dunleavy
Granger
Chandler
Hibbert

I'd love it!

*dreaming*

duke dynamite
02-19-2009, 11:26 AM
You know.... OKC rejected that trade for a reason. I just hope we don't overlook some serious injury concerns just to make a move.
He failed the team's (OKC) physical because he has asthma.

I'll find the link...

This is what Byron Scott said:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/basketball/nba/02/18/chandler.trade.rescinded.ap/index.html


"I think a lot of that is because of the injuries that he's suffered this season," the first couple games of the season, he was playing really well. Then he hurt his ankle. He came back, he was playing pretty good again, and then his neck was hurt.

RealGM says this:

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/57389/20090219/asthma_was_reason_chandler_trade_was_voided/

bellisimo
02-19-2009, 11:26 AM
sure because we all know how the Pacers Trainers lets people play early and often...so there should be no problem for Chandler to pass the Pacers physical...

before you ask...this is in jest and some truth as well :D

tde3000
02-19-2009, 11:26 AM
Hmmm... very interesting. We definitely would have what New Orleans would want. Hopefully if we have to trade Rasho's expiring contract, we can package him with Tinsley.

New Orleans could use a good back up PG.

they signed tinsly in my 2k9 association, could this be a sign? :D

LOCBLB613
02-19-2009, 11:28 AM
off topic but we were going to get denvers 1st rd pick for foster? uhh why did we turn that down?????????

xtacy
02-19-2009, 11:28 AM
i hope this happens but i doubt it will.

Eindar
02-19-2009, 11:28 AM
I'd do it if we got to dump Tinsley or Murphy. I think, under a non-O'Brien coach, he'd be an excellent, excellent complement to Roy in a "twin towers" scheme down the road; Roy in the high post, Chandler cleaning up the garbage, both good shot blockers.

Unclebuck
02-19-2009, 11:29 AM
Interesting. I hadn't even considered getting him as a possiblity. I remember there were rumors maybe 3 or 4 years ago about the Pacers acquiring him and I really wanted him then.

Here is his contract

'09 - 10.9
'10 - 11.9
'11 - 12.8 - player option

He is injury prone, but I really like his game and he would improve our defense a ton.

I also think we could give the Hornets a better deal than what the Thunder had worked out.

They would want the expiring contracts of Rasho and Daniels- they really need Jack (I'm sure O'Brien wouldn't want to part with him)

I would like to trade for Chandler

Roaming Gnome
02-19-2009, 11:30 AM
they signed tinsly in my nk9 association, could this be a sign? :D

Funny thing about Tinsley and the 2K9 association game. I traded Tinsley strait up for LaMarcus Aldridge. :lmao:

Unclebuck
02-19-2009, 11:30 AM
Wow, that would be awesome..let them rest, let's tank and then imagine a healty lineup next year of

Ford
Dunleavy
Granger
Chandler
Hibbert

I'd love it!

*dreaming*

You wouldn't have Chandler and Hibbert in the lineup - especially if JOB is the coach - in fact I doubt more than a couple of coaches would have those two in the lineup

31andonly
02-19-2009, 11:30 AM
off topic but we were going to get denvers 1st rd pick for foster? uhh why did we turn that down?????????

A late first-round pick in a weak draft? For Foster? No, thank you..

BRushWithDeath
02-19-2009, 11:31 AM
It was a toe. Not asthma.



Tyson Chandler missed the New Orleans Hornets' last 12 games before the All-Star break with a sprained left ankle. But that had nothing to do with why he failed his physical with the Oklahoma City Thunder and was thus sent back to the Hornets on Wednesday.


After examining Chandler's left big toe, Dr. Carlan Yates, Oklahoma City's team physician, determined that the risk of re-injury was too great to give Chandler a clean bill of health. He therefore advised the Thunder to rescind Tuesday's trade that landed them Chandler for Joe Smith, Chris Wilcox and the rights to Devon Hardin.
"This is absolutely crazy," Chandler said in a telephone conversation Wednesday night. "I'm super shocked. This is nuts."
Chandler, 26, was baffled by Yates' ruling in part because Yates performed surgery on Chandler's big left toe in April of 2007 when the Hornets were playing in Oklahoma City. Chandler played 79 games the following season and while he's missed 19 games this season, none have been because of his toe.

Speed
02-19-2009, 11:31 AM
off topic but we were going to get denvers 1st rd pick for foster? uhh why did we turn that down?????????

Where was this info at?

31andonly
02-19-2009, 11:32 AM
You wouldn't have Chandler and Hibbert in the lineup - especially if JOB is the coach - in fact I doubt more than a couple of coaches would have those two in the lineup

I don't expect O'Brien to be our long-term-coach...however, I'd have nothing against trading for Chandler if both Rush and Hibbert are not included in the deal.

LOCBLB613
02-19-2009, 11:33 AM
A late first-round pick in a weak draft? For Foster? No, thank you..

its the bobcats 1st rd that they got in june. pakage that pick with the 2 2nd rders we got with an expiring or so now thats attractive to any team

Unclebuck
02-19-2009, 11:33 AM
We really don't need Chandler this season. Let him rest and get healthy for next. So I wouldn't care about any short term (less than 3 or 4 months type injury)

LOCBLB613
02-19-2009, 11:34 AM
Where was this info at?

click the link on the #1 post and its at the bottom of the first article

Unclebuck
02-19-2009, 11:34 AM
I don't think The Hornets will want Rush. They want cap relief and players that could still help them this season. Daniels, Rasho, Foster, Jack all could do that

duke dynamite
02-19-2009, 11:34 AM
It was a toe. Not asthma.
Can we have a link???

OakMoses
02-19-2009, 11:35 AM
From what I understand, he failed the physical because of turf toe. Also, the Thunder were considered to be very conservative in their evaluation of him.

I'd love to have Chandler. He and Roy would be a fantastic duo.

In order to do it, however, we're going to have to either shed a long term deal for next season or include Jack in the trade and give up on resigning him. I'm fine with that, even though I like Jack.

31andonly
02-19-2009, 11:35 AM
its the bobcats 1st rd that they got in june. pakage that pick with the 2 2nd rders we got with an expiring or so now thats attractive to any team

Ok, didn't know that.

But I'm still not sure whether this would be a good deal..

Speed
02-19-2009, 11:36 AM
click the link on the #1 post and its at the bottom of the first article


Thanks, it is the Bobcats first rounder that Denver has, wow.

bellisimo
02-19-2009, 11:36 AM
Can we have a link???

sure...


After examining Chandler's left big toe, Dr. Carlan Yates, Oklahoma City's team physician, determined that the risk of re-injury was too great to give Chandler a clean bill of health. He therefore advised the Thunder to rescind Tuesday's trade that landed them Chandler for Joe Smith (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=788), Chris Wilcox (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1731) and the rights to Devon Hardin.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3917505

ChicagoJ
02-19-2009, 11:37 AM
Tyson's Chicken?

Pass!

He's more fragile mentally than physically. He probably drives Byron Scott insane.

When it comes to chicken, this Tyson is both boneless and skinless.

Unclebuck
02-19-2009, 11:37 AM
One thing to keep in mind this would essentially lock the pacers in for 2 or 3 seasons with a nucleus of Granger, Dunleavy, Murphy, Chandler, Ford. - Now I think that is enough to get us into the playoffs - but cap space would be gone until basically '11 when Chandler, Murph and Dun expire

LOCBLB613
02-19-2009, 11:37 AM
Ok, didn't know that.

But I'm still not sure whether this would be a good deal..

your right its a great deal it get foster off the books and we would have 2 1st rd and 2 2nd round picks

duke dynamite
02-19-2009, 11:37 AM
sure...



http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3917505
Thanks for picking up the slack.

duke dynamite
02-19-2009, 11:38 AM
One thing to keep in mind this would essentially lock the pacers in for 2 or 3 seasons with a necleus of Granger, Dunleavy, Murphy, Chandler, Ford. - Now I think thatis enough to get us into the playoffs
Maybe further. Round 2, anyone?

Cactus Jax
02-19-2009, 11:38 AM
A deal the Pacers might be trying to throw at the Hornets.

Rasho + Tinsley + Baston for Chandler + Mo Pete

Works under trade checker, but I somehow see the Pacers trying to throw in Tinsley in any deal at this point.

Unclebuck
02-19-2009, 11:40 AM
A deal the Pacers might be trying to throw at the Hornets.

Rasho + Tinsley + Baston for Chandler + Mo Pete

Works under trade checker, but I somehow see the Pacers trying to throw in Tinsley in any deal at this point.


The Hornets would laugh Bird off the phone if they tried that.

The Hornets Do Not want Tinsley - no doubt in my mind about that.

Cactus Jax
02-19-2009, 11:42 AM
The Hornets would laugh Bird off the phone if they tried that.

The Hornets Do Not want Tinsley - no doubt in my mind about that.

Probably, but I figured JT and Mo Pete have similar contracts, and they need a PG more than a SG/SF that it could work, and Maceo is another expiring.

jeffg-body
02-19-2009, 11:42 AM
Just think of all of the throw downs from assists from Ford next year. I think a Roy/Chandler combo could work out ok. Chandler seems to be quick enough to keep up with a majority of the four spot players in the league and he plays defense.

avoidingtheclowns
02-19-2009, 11:42 AM
A deal the Pacers might be trying to throw at the Hornets.

Rasho + Tinsley + Baston for Chandler + Mo Pete

Works under trade checker, but I somehow see the Pacers trying to throw in Tinsley in any deal at this point.

this deal would add about $16 million of salary for 09-10 and 10-11.

OakMoses
02-19-2009, 11:42 AM
Thanks, it is the Bobcats first rounder that Denver has, wow.

The problem is that Denver just really doesn't have any contracts that match up with Foster's, other than J.R. Smith's. I'm sure that trading J.R. Smith for Foster doesn't really interest either team.

The contracts that work would be Stephen Hunter and Renaldo Balkman, who both have a year left after this one. You wouldn't really be getting Foster off the books, you'd be getting out of his extension a year early while having to roster two less useful players for next season.

Roaming Gnome
02-19-2009, 11:44 AM
Wake me up at 3pm...

We are not chancing the LTax for Chandler.

beast23
02-19-2009, 11:49 AM
We really don't need Chandler this season. Let him rest and get healthy for next. So I wouldn't care about any short term (less than 3 or 4 months type injury)I'm thinking along those lines as well. This season went down the tubes long ago as far as I'm concerned. Next season I want a healthy Danny and DunJr... along with a healthy Chandler.

Somehow, I just don't see this trade happening though if all we would be giving up would be expiring contracts. I don't think there is any way possible that the Simons would commit that much money towards next season. I believe that they have in mind to let one or more players with expiring contracts walk in order to reduce salary.

So, this rumor just isn't consistent with what we've read regarding the state of the franchise and so forth.

Therefore, I beleive acquiring Chandler would only happen if Tinsley is somehow involved. That enables us to still reduce salary next season through one or more expiring contracts.

OakMoses
02-19-2009, 11:50 AM
New Orleans wants frontcourt depth and expiring contracts.

Rasho + Jack = Chandler.
Rasho + Foster = Chandler + Hilton Armstrong.
Quis + Rasho = Chandler + Rasual Butler.
Quis + Foster = Chandler.
Quis + Foster + Jack = Chandler + Hilton Armstrong or Julian Wright.

Major Cold
02-19-2009, 11:50 AM
If we make this deal that means the ownership is looking to contend in the next couple of years. With all of the teams dumping players this might be the best time to risk some cash and get a good team.

Unclebuck
02-19-2009, 11:51 AM
Just think of all of the throw downs from assists from Ford next year. I think a Roy/Chandler combo could work out ok. Chandler seems to be quick enough to keep up with a majority of the four spot players in the league and he plays defense.

I question how well those two would work together mainly for offensive reasons. Chandler's midrange shot makes Foster look like Reggie Miller. Chandler's offensive game as a whole is horrible. He's a great defender though - but he is best as a help defender - his one-on-one defense IMo is not better than Foster's. (clearly he is much better as a help defender than Jeff

BRushWithDeath
02-19-2009, 11:51 AM
One thing to keep in mind this would essentially lock the pacers in for 2 or 3 seasons with a nucleus of Granger, Dunleavy, Murphy, Chandler, Ford. - Now I think that is enough to get us into the playoffs - but cap space would be gone until basically '11 when Chandler, Murph and Dun expire

We're not going to be able to do anything drastic until then anyway due to Murph and Dun's contract.

purdue101
02-19-2009, 12:00 PM
chandler for foster & quis would make sense for both teams.

NO stays under the LT next season by shedding quis, but gets a solid C to fill in.

we add a young talent while only taking on 5 million more next season.

good to hear LB is jumping on chandler now that his stock just plummeted.

wintermute
02-19-2009, 12:04 PM
New Orleans wants frontcourt depth and expiring contracts.

Rasho + Jack = Chandler.
Rasho + Foster = Chandler + Hilton Armstrong.
Quis + Rasho = Chandler + Rasual Butler.
Quis + Foster = Chandler.
Quis + Foster + Jack = Chandler + Hilton Armstrong or Julian Wright.

a quis and foster package makes sense - including foster means that the pacers will have some hope of avoiding luxury tax next season. including jack also makes sense, because there's no way we will be able to re-sign him with chandler's contract on the books. hornets won't part with wright though.

i'm split though about whether we should try to get chandler. he'll no doubt make our defense look a lot better, but the injury concern is troubling. is it just okc being too conservative? we've been saddled with fragile players too often in the past, so i'd hope we're cautious.

rexnom
02-19-2009, 12:04 PM
Although I doubt this would happen, another nice thing about trading Jack is that we wouldn't have to resign him - saving us about 4-5 mil in the off-season. So as much as a cap hit as Chandler might be, you'd save Jack's contract and roll with Travis as backup PG (which we are already essentially doing) and Brandon as backup SG.

EDIT: Chandler for Rasho and Jack makes a lot of sense. I don't see why other team would turn that down except for some tough LT math on the Pacers part.

duke dynamite
02-19-2009, 12:05 PM
Although I doubt this would happen, another nice thing about trading Jack is that we wouldn't have to resign him - saving us about 4-5 mil in the off-season. So as much as a cap hit as Chandler might be, you'd save Jack's contract and roll with Travis as backup PG (which we are already essentially doing) and Brandon as backup SG.
With this reasoning, it all makes sense. Pull the trigger!

Speed
02-19-2009, 12:07 PM
Wilcox and Joe Smith was horribly under a normal market value for Chandler, so anything is possible. Chandler is a legit starting Pf/C in this league in his prime. This is a really great opportunity to add a nice piece for pennies on the dollar value wise, imho.

Byron Scott had this to say after he thought that Chandler was going to OK:

Scott described the trade as the toughest he's ever had to stomach as a coach, saying of <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comhttp://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/ /><st1:City w:st=Chandler</ST1:p</st1:City>: "He's a coach's dream. He'll do whatever you ask him to do, and he'll do it to the best of his ability. ... I told him I was sick. I was sick about it. I said, 'From a personal standpoint, I'm sick to see you go.' But from a professional standpoint, this is our business and this is what happens in the business."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3917505

By Chris Broussard
and Marc Stein
ESPN.com

PaceBalls
02-19-2009, 12:07 PM
You guys think the Hornets are actually interested in Murph in this deal? He has been putting up good numbers and would fit in pretty well in NewO.

purdue101
02-19-2009, 12:10 PM
no way. murph and west would not make a good frontcourt.....too finese.

foster and quis makes the most sense for everyone.....both teams avoid LT. we still could even resign jack.

BRushWithDeath
02-19-2009, 12:10 PM
You guys think the Hornets are actually interested in Murph in this deal? He has been putting up good numbers and would fit in pretty well in NewO.

No way in hell. Nobody wants that contract.

pwee31
02-19-2009, 12:11 PM
Chandler the guy I've been calling for this whole time, during all the Amare madness.

If this happens, I'll be psyched. Too bad the Pacers are apparently rejecting offers for Foster, they've turned down Denver and Charlotte.

We'll see what happens in a few hours... I'm heading off to work

count55
02-19-2009, 12:13 PM
Just saw this on CNNSI- http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/ian_thomsen/02/18/trade.deadline.preview/index.html?eref=T1

"Thursday Update: Pacers interested in Chandler

The big surprise of the morning was interest from the Indiana Pacers in making a run at Tyson Chandler, who was back in New Orleans after his trade to Oklahoma City had been rescinded. The Pacers could offer a combination of expiring contracts attached to center Rasho Nesterovic ($8.4 million), forward Marquis Daniels ($6.8 million) and point guard Jarrett Jack ($2 million), in addition to center Jeff Foster.

A potential trade for Chandler would come with a lot of luggage: Would he be able to pass his physical with Indiana, and would the Pacers -- who like a lot of teams are losing money -- be willing to take on salary and bump against the luxury tax ceiling next season? But Chandler would definitely improve the team in the company of a healthy Mike Dunleavy and All-Star Danny Granger next season."

OK, if New Orleans is looking to clear space, we would throw an expiring in with Jeff Foster, and that would save them $6.2mm next year of payroll. It would not, as in the OKC deal, allow them to get under the luxury tax, but it's still over $12mm in cash (payroll and tax), and they'd be right at the threshold. They may be able to move a Rasual Butler type contract to get under. Also, they probably won't be able to clear all of his salary because of the physical/health issue.

The deal could not be all of those players, but likely one or two of them along side Foster. I'd say our best offer is probably Daniels and Foster, from a cap perspective...it minimizes what they pay this year, and maximizes their reduction next year. We could offer Foster along with Jack & Baston, which would reduce this year's payout, but Jack would be problematic because they may want to re-sign him.

What does it do to us? It adds about $6.2mm in salaries for next year, meaning that we'd have about $64mm in salaries with 9 players under contract. We'd almost certainly, from there, let the other expirings walk, including Jarrett Jack. We'd sign our 1st round pick, and probably re-sign a bunch of cheap guys, including Graham & Baston, and bump right up against the tax.

(Side note: If we do this deal, then, by some miracle, end up with a top 3 pick, or the #1, that could actually **** us by putting us over the tax...but I think it's worth the minimal risk.)

PaceBalls
02-19-2009, 12:13 PM
No one used to want that contract.. but he actually is putting up numbers worthy of his contract right now. 16/16 (last night) is pretty damn good. He has had a ton of double doubles..

BRushWithDeath
02-19-2009, 12:17 PM
No one used to want that contract.. but he actually is putting up numbers worthy of his contract right now. 16/16 (last night) is pretty damn good. He has had a ton of double doubles..

Not a chance. Nobody would take him off our hands. He could average 16/16 and still not equal his contract.

Mourning
02-19-2009, 12:17 PM
off topic but we were going to get denvers 1st rd pick for foster? uhh why did we turn that down?????????

Because this years draft sucks and Denvers pick won't be a good pick anyway? :dunno:

Eindar
02-19-2009, 12:18 PM
Chandler the guy I've been calling for this whole time, during all the Amare madness.

If this happens, I'll be psyched. Too bad the Pacers are apparently rejecting offers for Foster, they've turned down Denver and Charlotte.

We'll see what happens in a few hours... I'm heading off to work

Putting on my tin foil hat, any chance that the Pacers are rejecting offers for Foster from Denver and Charlotte because they're furiously working on sending him to New Orleans?

count55
02-19-2009, 12:18 PM
EDIT: Chandler for Rasho and Jack makes a lot of sense. I don't see why other team would turn that down except for some tough LT math on the Pacers part.

The Pacers won't do this. This would put the Pacers at the luxury tax level with only 9 players under contract.

For the Pacers to say yes to this deal, they have to include one of the following contracts:

Murphy
Dunleavy
Ford
Tinsley
Foster

Murphy and Dunleavy are too big...TJ's is too big and too redundant. Tinsley doesn't have any value.

Foster is the only contract that has value as a player and still provides cap relief.

The Rasho/Jack for Chandler deal would be a disaster. It would leave us in cap hell without making us a serious contender.

wintermute
02-19-2009, 12:19 PM
No one used to want that contract.. but he actually is putting up numbers worthy of his contract right now. 16/16 (last night) is pretty damn good. He has had a ton of double doubles..

murphy and chandler have almost identical contracts. (though chandler is paid a bit more, i believe)

if the hornets are moving chandler for financial reasons, they won't want murphy for that same reason.

anyway, i doubt there's a team (including the pacers) who'd rather have murphy over chandler on the same contract.

Mourning
02-19-2009, 12:20 PM
Chandler is a good player who I would like us to have, but I'm a little hesitant regarding his injury history to be very honest. So, I have to think about it, but I'm leaning slightly towards "yes".

Country Boy
02-19-2009, 12:23 PM
Not a chance. Nobody would take him off our hands. He could average 16/16 and still not equal his contract.

Deal in logic often? Hate often clouds logical thinking.;)

wintermute
02-19-2009, 12:24 PM
For the Pacers to say yes to this deal, they have to include one of the following contracts:

Murphy
Dunleavy
Ford
Tinsley
Foster

Murphy and Dunleavy are too big...TJ's is too big and too redundant. Tinsley doesn't have any value.

Foster is the only contract that has value as a player and still provides cap relief.


yup

and in addition, we almost certainly won't be able to re-sign jarrett jack. we can either include him in the deal as a sweetener or shop him separately for a pick.

PaceBalls
02-19-2009, 12:24 PM
murphy and chandler have almost identical contracts. (though chandler is paid a bit more, i believe)

if the hornets are moving chandler for financial reasons, they won't want murphy for that same reason.

anyway, i doubt there's a team (including the pacers) who'd rather have murphy over chandler on the same contract.

That makes sense, I guess Foster becomes the more likely candidate in this trade. However, I disagree comparing Murph to Chandler, they play different positions, completely different games. Murph is great for spreading the floor and is probably the best 3pt shooting big man in the game right now (besides maybe Dirk?). It is all about what role teams are looking for their players to fill.

Speed
02-19-2009, 12:28 PM
Reading over the report again, it seems that it is Jeff and expirings maybe to included Jack, Rasho, Marquis. So it would seem the main components are Jeff and someone(s) who is expiring or potentially expiring.

Speed
02-19-2009, 12:29 PM
http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=25146


Bill (New Orleans): Any chance the Hornets still make a move with Chandler?

http://a.espncdn.com/i/sn2.gif Chad Ford: (12:27 PM ET ) They are talking to teams. They feel like OKC way over reacted to Chandler's turf toe issue. The question is ... do they have enough time to make a deal. A team would have to be pretty sure that Chandler is healthy to make another deal for him.

BRushWithDeath
02-19-2009, 12:31 PM
Deal in logic often? Hate often clouds logical thinking.;)

I don't hate Murphy. I've been one of his bigger fans. But numbers don't tell the story with him.

Kuq_e_Zi91
02-19-2009, 12:31 PM
I'm torn on this. I know Chandler would be a huge upgrade defensively but I don't want it to hurt Hibbert's growth. I see him as the C of the future, not Chandler. There's no way you can play them together.

count55
02-19-2009, 12:32 PM
Reading over the report again, it seems that it is Jeff and expirings maybe to included Jack, Rasho, Marquis. So it would seem the main components are Jeff and someone(s) who is expiring or potentially expiring.

Yeah, that's definitely got to be the Pacers' negotiating position.

Jeff and a choice from the pu pu platter of expirings.

If the negotiations are active (or real), I think they'd have a good chance of closing this deal.

purdue101
02-19-2009, 12:32 PM
Jeff is the key.......NO won't take back any of our other salaries. They could actually use Jeff too as they're thin at C w/o Chandler.

Like Count said....Jeff/Quis is the ticket. NO plugs two holes at C/SF to stay competitive and they shed 6 million next season to avoid LT.

We get a talented big and take on 6 million, which is doable for us.

We CANNOT trade straight up expirings for Chandler....do the math.

wintermute
02-19-2009, 12:37 PM
If the negotiations are active (or real), I think they'd have a good chance of closing this deal.

plus the pacers need to be convinced that okc's concerns were overblown

count55
02-19-2009, 12:40 PM
plus the pacers need to be convinced that okc's concerns were overblown

rumbles are that it's over the turf toe, not the back...I've seen it reported two places (SI & ESPN) that people think OKC over reacted (of course, that could just be the same source being repeated, or one site reporting news created by the other.)

Make the deal, and void it if he fails the physical. It's been done before. I don't see that being the obstacle (or an obstacle).

BPump33
02-19-2009, 12:41 PM
Steve (Toronto): Any trades for Houston Rockets?

Chad Ford: (12:29 PM ET ) They have spoken with a lot of teams about adding another guard now that TMac is out. But I think it will be a small deal ... not the bigger deals they were working on earlier in the week with Vince Carter and Baron Davis. Their best trade bait is Ron Artest's expiring contract. But I'm told, with TMac out, they'd prefer not to move it. Instead, Carl Landry may be the bait.

I would love to get Landry.....think they would be interested in any of our guards???

PaceBalls
02-19-2009, 12:42 PM
I wonder if Jeff would pass his physical?

Eindar
02-19-2009, 12:43 PM
I'm torn on this. I know Chandler would be a huge upgrade defensively but I don't want it to hurt Hibbert's growth. I see him as the C of the future, not Chandler. There's no way you can play them together.

I know the Bulls weren't a good team, but Chandler did play PF with Curry at one point, so I don't know that Chandler can't play PF full-time, and you'd have two very good shot blockers on the floor at the same time, which is basically what won the Pistons a title. The only time you'd have real trouble is when playing a team that goes small better than you go big, killing us with jumpers. Having said that, I'm tired of matching up to other teams, I'd like to see them match up with us, and this trade, within a year or two, would do that.

Speed
02-19-2009, 12:43 PM
plus the pacers need to be convinced that okc's concerns were overblown

That's a huge piece to this.

You have to wonder if OKC had buyer's remorse or it really is something that is trouble. I would guess if something happened down the line that was career threatening, you'd be able to collect the insurance easily with the trail.

count55
02-19-2009, 12:45 PM
I'm torn on this. I know Chandler would be a huge upgrade defensively but I don't want it to hurt Hibbert's growth. I see him as the C of the future, not Chandler. There's no way you can play them together.

Why can't you play them together? Chandler strikes me as the classic 4, Hibbert the classic 5. Hibbert's strength is offense, Chandler's is defense and rebounding. Hibbert lacks mobility, and probably is better served defending a post player and a spot, rather than helping. Chandler is the prototypical help defender.

Other than the fact that neither is particularly physical, (read: banger), I'm not seeing a problem.

The bigger issue is the $48mm+ we'll have tied up in Chandler and Murphy over the next two seasons.

Country Boy
02-19-2009, 12:45 PM
I don't hate Murphy. I've been one of his bigger fans. But numbers don't tell the story with him.

You keep using that same line, that numbers don't tell the whole story with him, now please enlighten me on what the hell that means. Is that your original thought or are you just repeating what you have heard somewhere along the way? Just curious.

tde3000
02-19-2009, 12:47 PM
You keep using that same line, that numbers don't tell the whole story with him, now please enlighten me on what the hell that means. Is that your original thought or are you just repeating what you have heard somewhere along the way? Just curious.

he means that while he has many rebounds, he gets most of them by fighting his teammates for the ball.

ReginaldWayne
02-19-2009, 12:47 PM
Chandler plyed PF alongside Curry in Chi

Phree Refill
02-19-2009, 12:48 PM
I'm assuming New Orleans must not be to picky about the talent they get back as long as they get cap relief. Having said that, Foster and tinsley have almost identical contracts. Lets just swap tinsley into foster's place and send daniels and tinsley to New Orleans for chandler.

I can dream can't i?

BPump33
02-19-2009, 12:49 PM
Jay (Indianapolis, IN): Chad, will the Pacers sit idly through the afternoon, or do you see Marquis Daniels and/or Rasho Nesterovic moving?

Chad Ford: (12:43 PM ET ) They're in a tough position. With all of the injuries and with Jamaal Tinsley sitting around they can't really afford to have the same budget as the Knicks. Not in that market. They may have to decide to let those contracts expire and get their cap situation under control. I know it isn't sexy, but it's good management. If they can get a future pick or a young player for Daniels or Nesterovic, I'm sure they'll do it.

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=25146

ReginaldWayne
02-19-2009, 12:49 PM
he means that while he has many rebounds, he gets most of them by fighting his teammates for the ball.

yea ok, i hate when ppl say that. "most of his boards fighting his teamates for the ball" So what, out of the almost 12, he fights for 6 or 7 of them a game away from his teamates? ok.

Kuq_e_Zi91
02-19-2009, 12:50 PM
I know the Bulls weren't a good team, but Chandler did play PF with Curry at one point, so I don't know that Chandler can't play PF full-time, and you'd have two very good shot blockers on the floor at the same time, which is basically what won the Pistons a title. The only time you'd have real trouble is when playing a team that goes small better than you go big, killing us with jumpers. Having said that, I'm tired of matching up to other teams, I'd like to see them match up with us, and this trade, within a year or two, would do that.

I didn't know that. That would be the ideal scenario, but then the question becomes what you do with Murphy. Playing against second units might increase his production, but he'd still be pretty expensive for a "first big off the bench."

Man this deal raises so many questions. I hope we really think this through and make the right move.

count55
02-19-2009, 12:50 PM
I'm assuming New Orleans must not be to picky about the talent they get back as long as they get cap relief. Having said that, Foster and tinsley have almost identical contracts. Lets just swap tinsley into foster's place and send daniels and tinsley to New Orleans for chandler.

I can dream can't i?

If Tinsley were expiring, they'd do that...but then, if Tinsley were expiring, he wouldn't be near the problem for us anyway.

They want relief, but if they can't get all the relief they want, then they're going to want some value on the court, hence Jeff Foster.

Speed
02-19-2009, 12:53 PM
he means that while he has many rebounds, he gets most of them by fighting his teammates for the ball.

Troy is a rebound vulture. I like him, but he is.

tde3000
02-19-2009, 12:54 PM
yea ok, i hate when ppl say that. "most of his boards fighting his teamates for the ball" So what, out of the almost 12, he fights for 6 or 7 of them a game away from his teamates? ok.

it's not okay. it means that he's a 12/5 guy instead of a 12/12 guy.

count55
02-19-2009, 12:54 PM
Why can't you play them together? Chandler strikes me as the classic 4, Hibbert the classic 5. Hibbert's strength is offense, Chandler's is defense and rebounding. Hibbert lacks mobility, and probably is better served defending a post player and a spot, rather than helping. Chandler is the prototypical help defender.

Other than the fact that neither is particularly physical, (read: banger), I'm not seeing a problem.

The bigger issue is the $48mm+ we'll have tied up in Chandler and Murphy over the next two seasons.

Though, in thinking about this, Chandler and Murphy would almost certainly start for the balance of this season, and it is possible that Hibbert gets squeezed...though Foster would be gone, and possibly Granger, so Obie may have no choice.

2minutes twowa
02-19-2009, 12:54 PM
I love Jeff, but I love this deal more. It is a significant amount of salary, but it's only 2 years right? If he doesn't pan out here, just think how valuable he'll be next year as trade bait. It's a win win to me.

ReginaldWayne
02-19-2009, 12:55 PM
it's not okay. it means that he's a 12/5 guy instead of a 12/12 guy.

i was being sarcastic sorry you didnt catch that.

count55
02-19-2009, 12:56 PM
it's not okay. it means that he's a 12/5 guy instead of a 12/12 guy.

5?...was it uncomfortable pulling that number out of your ***?

PaceBalls
02-19-2009, 12:56 PM
This knock on Troy for grabbing too many rebounds that his teammates might have gotten is absurd. Yeah I have seen him get a rebound at the same time as one of our other players and Troy usually comes away with those. But what would you rather have him do, be passive and drop the ball while our other player does the same thing and the ball bounces out of bounds?

You want guys who who are agressive rebounders, not passive deferring to other teammates to get them.

tonythetiger
02-19-2009, 12:59 PM
Rasho is the perfect fit for a trade for NO-- he is a true center, is expiring, is playing well, is healthy, and knows the Spurs.

tde3000
02-19-2009, 12:59 PM
5?...was it uncomfortable pulling that number out of your ***?

lol. it's just that the guy i quoted said "he takes 7 rebounds from his teamates" so i took an "almost 12-7"

ReginaldWayne
02-19-2009, 12:59 PM
This knock on Troy for grabbing too many rebounds that his teammates might have gotten is absurd. Yeah I have seen him get a rebound at the same time as one of our other players and Troy usually comes away with those. But what would you rather have him do, be passive and drop the ball while our other player does the same thing and the ball bounces out of bounds?

You want guys who who are agressive rebounders, not passive deferring to other teammates to get them.

Im not even comfortable discussing this bc its so redic. All the flack the guy gets for defense, contract, mobility, etc...ud think ppl wouldnt talk **** about his rebounding

Speed
02-19-2009, 01:00 PM
Troy = RV

I'm just saying.

Country Boy
02-19-2009, 01:01 PM
Troy is a rebound vulture. I like him, but he is.

Do you know who Bill Russell is? Would you call him a rebound vulture also?

tde3000
02-19-2009, 01:01 PM
Troy = RV



what does that mean?

count55
02-19-2009, 01:02 PM
what does that mean?

Rebound Vulture...from an earlier post.

tde3000
02-19-2009, 01:02 PM
Rebound Vulture...from an earlier post.

man, you people are smart :)

count55
02-19-2009, 01:04 PM
Do you know who Bill Russell is? Would you call him a rebound vulture also?

No...wasn't he a utility infielder for the Dodgers in the '70's? Kind of a banjo hitter?

I had no idea he liked to pick up chicks just coming out of long-term relationships.

Speed
02-19-2009, 01:04 PM
Do you know who Bill Russell is? Would you call him a rebound vulture also?

Sir, I know of Bill Russell, I consider him a friend....

count55
02-19-2009, 01:04 PM
man, you people are smart :)

All evidence to the contrary...

Mourning
02-19-2009, 01:05 PM
i was being sarcastic sorry you didnt catch that.

Smilies usually do the trick ;).

rexnom
02-19-2009, 01:05 PM
Can we not turn this into another thread about Troy's rebounding?

Thanks,

Rexnom :cool:

ChicagoJ
02-19-2009, 01:05 PM
I know the Bulls weren't a good team, but Chandler did play PF with Curry at one point,

If you are going to reference back to when Tyson's Chicken played for the Bulls, don't forget to mention that he was so soft that Reggie Miller could push him around.

Justin Tyme
02-19-2009, 01:06 PM
Steve (Toronto): Any trades for Houston Rockets?

Chad Ford: (12:29 PM ET ) They have spoken with a lot of teams about adding another guard now that TMac is out. But I think it will be a small deal ... not the bigger deals they were working on earlier in the week with Vince Carter and Baron Davis. Their best trade bait is Ron Artest's expiring contract. But I'm told, with TMac out, they'd prefer not to move it. Instead, Carl Landry may be the bait.

I would love to get Landry.....think they would be interested in any of our guards???



I read that earlier today and tried to come up with a deal, but couldn't put anything together.

Just to dream a little, but wouldn't it be nice to come up with Chandler AND the Landry!! Oh well for wishful thinking.

Speed
02-19-2009, 01:06 PM
man, you people are smart :)

Well you have the first word right of the two word description.

Speed
02-19-2009, 01:08 PM
Can we not turn this into another thread about Troy's rebounding?

Thanks,

Rexnom :cool:

too late!

Now let's talk about the current coaching style...

Sorry I'll stop, I got all excited thinking about the potential for a deadline deal.

BPump33
02-19-2009, 01:08 PM
I read that earlier today and tried to come up with a deal, but couldn't put anything together.

Just to dream a little, but wouldn't it be nice to come up with Chandler AND the Landry!! Oh well for wishful thinking.


The only thing I could come up with was Jack/Graham......but I don't think that they would jump at that......

Speed
02-19-2009, 01:09 PM
Wonder why they would want to move Landry?

Unclebuck
02-19-2009, 01:09 PM
ChicagoJ - Chandler is soft - in that he isn't a strong physical player. But no one plays harder, no one is more willing to sacrifice their body for rebounds and on defense.

I'm surprised you aren't criticizing him for his major weakness - his offense. To say he's soft though I think misses the mark

Speed
02-19-2009, 01:11 PM
I think too back when he came in the league he was a kid. I bet he's put on 20 solid pounds of muscle since then, at least.

Jonathan
02-19-2009, 01:18 PM
The only way I am for picking up Chandler is if the deal involves Tinsley. If Tinsley is not included no deal.

ChicagoJ
02-19-2009, 01:18 PM
I'm just saying that when you're 7'2" and all that, and 175-pound Reggie Miller gets pushes you around gets you so frustrated that you bean him in the back with a basketball then it tells me that you're both physiscally and mentally weak.

Maybe he's grown up. Maybe not. In my opinion, he's not worth it.

Even if the contracts matched, I wouldn't trade Foster straight up for him. Foster plays a finesse style but is tough mentally, Tyson's Chicken may play hard (don't both teams play hard, isn't that what they always tell us?) but he is merely weak/ fragile.

count55
02-19-2009, 01:19 PM
The only way I am for picking up Chandler is if the deal involves Tinsley. If Tinsley is not included no deal.

Basically, you're saying no deal at all, which is fine, but myopic.

Unclebuck
02-19-2009, 01:21 PM
Even if the contracts matched, I wouldn't trade Foster straight up for him. Foster plays a finesse style but is tough mentally, Tyson's Chicken may play hard (don't both teams play hard, isn't that what they always tell us?) but he is merely weak/ fragile.

wow - didn't realize you hated Chandler that much

ReginaldWayne
02-19-2009, 01:27 PM
SportsNation Chad Ford: (1:22 PM ET ) Yes. Bulls and Knicks have agreed to a trade. Larry Hughes for Tim Thomas and Jerome James. I'm told it's waiting for league approval.

ChicagoJ
02-19-2009, 01:27 PM
wow - didn't realize you hated Chandler that much

Yeah, we do this every time he comes up. Which thankfully isn't often.

His first impression with me - when I would see him at the United Center - was that he would flame out of the league pretty quickly. He has some ability, of course, but I'm not impressed with him at all.

It really has taken Byron Scott to save his career. Do you really think Jim O'Brien can work the same magic with him?

I'll say this, he's a kid that really would have benefitted from a few years in college with a coach that demanded he work hard and toughen up. To his agent's credit, he also would not have been drafted as high.

If, post Byron Scott, he regressed to being pouty and getting pushed around, I wouldn't be surprised at all.

Skaut_Ech
02-19-2009, 01:28 PM
I don't think The Hornets will want Rush. They want cap relief and players that could still help them this season. Daniels, Rasho, Foster, Jack all could do that

I absolutely agree. The Hornets are so Charmin thin, I am shocked they can win anything. ALL of the guys you mentioned would be great fits in their system and as we like to say about this year's squad, very coachable guys.

I'm going to not try and think about the possiblity of this trade too much. Makes too much sense and helps both teams out too much.

So it'll never happen.

(Just the possibilty of this happening brought me out of lurk mode.)

Justin Tyme
02-19-2009, 01:30 PM
Wonder why they would want to move Landry?



With T-Mac out with a possible injury they are in beed of a SG, and Landry is about all they have to trade.

I was thinking more lines of Daniels for Landry and ??, but Jack and Graham would work fine salary wise.

Trader Joe
02-19-2009, 01:32 PM
This sounds like making a trade just for the sake of making a trade to me. I'd imagine New Orleans would want either a Rasho/Jack combo or a Quis/Foster combo.

binarysolo
02-19-2009, 01:33 PM
I don't think I like it. Consider: Chandler averages <9 ppg as a big man playing with the best point guard in the league. I understand we wouldn't be getting him for his offense, but for that sort of contract, in this league, I don't think it's reasonable for the guy to be totally offensively inept.

He does block some shots but he's not a -dominant- shot blocker. 1.4 per game is decent... but if that's his truly where he earns his money, I don't think he is worth it.

rexnom
02-19-2009, 01:34 PM
Wow, for a board wanting better defense, we are surprisingly reluctant to bring new, defensive-minded guys.

BPump33
02-19-2009, 01:34 PM
With T-Mac out with a possible injury they are in beed of a SG, and Landry is about all they have to trade.

I was thinking more lines of Daniels for Landry and ??, but Jack and Graham would work fine salary wise.

Yeah, I figure Daniels is more of what they're looking for, but I can't get anything to work with him.

Justin Tyme
02-19-2009, 01:38 PM
Wow, for a board wanting better defense, we are surprisingly reluctant to bring new, defensive-minded guys.




Yes, BUT it would be contrary to Jimmy's run n gun with little "D" style system. Is Jimmy planning on changing from small ball?

Trader Joe
02-19-2009, 01:38 PM
Like JayRedd said on his blog, which I do read I don't know why, Tyson Chandler died six months ago. I don't know who this guy is, but he isn't the Tyson Chandler from last year's Hornets.

Trader Joe
02-19-2009, 01:39 PM
Yes, BUT it would be contrary to Jimmy's run n gun with little "D" style system. Is Jimmy planning on changing from small ball?

Maybe we're planning on changing from Jimmy? :pray:

BPump33
02-19-2009, 01:41 PM
Maybe we're planning on changing from Jimmy? :pray:

Tease.

ChicagoJ
02-19-2009, 01:42 PM
Wow, for a board wanting better defense, we are surprisingly reluctant to bring new, defensive-minded guys.

I don't know about that. The question in my mind in not whether Tyson's Chicken is defensive-minded or not. Clearly, with his (lack of) offense he better be. But when you get Tyson Chandler, you also get Tyson's Chicken. Is that worth it? At any cost? Surely we can do better (which may include not doing anything at all.)

Justin Tyme
02-19-2009, 01:44 PM
I'll go out on a limb witha saw, and say this trade isn't going to happen. 1hour 16 minutes to go.

Shade
02-19-2009, 01:45 PM
I would like to have Chandler here, but I am concerned about his health and attitude.

Is he really that much worse than Foster offensively?

Speed
02-19-2009, 01:48 PM
Maybe we're planning on changing from Jimmy? :pray:

I would hope that Bird wouldn't plan the team around a specific coaches philosophy.

Shade
02-19-2009, 01:52 PM
One thing to bear in mind here is that the Hornets are desperate to deal Chandler at this point, so we had best not give up too much for him.

Unclebuck
02-19-2009, 01:53 PM
I would like to have Chandler here, but I am concerned about his health and attitude.

Is he really that much worse than Foster offensively?

No, not much worse - in fact if you want to think of them as the same offensively - that is ok. FT% is a difference though

Speed
02-19-2009, 01:54 PM
I wonder how much validity there is to this anyway, you'd think we would see it picked up somewhere else and reported.

Cherokee
02-19-2009, 01:54 PM
Not a chance. Nobody would take him off our hands. He could average 16/16 and still not equal his contract.

Yeah, nobody benefits from having those double-double guys.

d_c
02-19-2009, 01:54 PM
Wow, for a board wanting better defense, we are surprisingly reluctant to bring new, defensive-minded guys.

LOL, seriously. If the Simons are willing to pay and the Hornets are willing to deal, this trade is a no brainer.

One guy addresses one of the teams biggest needs and might be available and now people don't want him.

Speed
02-19-2009, 01:55 PM
One thing to bear in mind here is that the Hornets are desperate to deal Chandler at this point, so we had best not give up too much for him.

This should be approached that the Hornets are completely viewing this as a salary dump even though they say it's to get frontcourt depth.

It's ironic if it does happen, since it was specifically stated in today's paper that Foster wasn't on the table (along with BRush)

CableKC
02-19-2009, 01:57 PM
Why can't you play them together? Chandler strikes me as the classic 4, Hibbert the classic 5. Hibbert's strength is offense, Chandler's is defense and rebounding. Hibbert lacks mobility, and probably is better served defending a post player and a spot, rather than helping. Chandler is the prototypical help defender.

Other than the fact that neither is particularly physical, (read: banger), I'm not seeing a problem.
Ahh...I see your mistake.....Chandler is a classic 4 and Hibbert is a Classic 5 IN any standard Basketball lineup....in JO'Bs lineup...Chandler would be the 5 all the time with some freaky wierd Small Ball PG lineup.

Cherokee
02-19-2009, 01:58 PM
he means that while he has many rebounds, he gets most of them by fighting his teammates for the ball.

I love a good joke.

Trader Joe
02-19-2009, 01:58 PM
Chandler can at least hit a layup if he is open on offense.

tde3000
02-19-2009, 01:59 PM
I love a good joke.

i love them too. got any?

rexnom
02-19-2009, 01:59 PM
LOL, seriously. If the Simons are willing to pay and the Hornets are willing to deal, this trade is a no brainer.

One guy addresses one of the teams biggest needs and might be available and now people don't want him.
Well, we know the Hornets are willing to deal for less than what we could put together so this becomes the key question. Will the Simons be willing to pay?

Shade
02-19-2009, 02:00 PM
This should be approached that the Hornets are completely viewing this as a salary dump even though they say it's to get frontcourt depth.

It's ironic if it does happen, since it was specifically stated in today's paper that Foster wasn't on the table (along with BRush)

Exactly. This is a salary dump, period.

I like that Chandler's contract is only for two more seasons after this one. He would expire the same year as Murphy and Dunleavy. We could literally rebuild big time in two years with all of the big expirings we would have then.

Speed
02-19-2009, 02:01 PM
Ahh...I see your mistake.....Chandler is a classic 4 and Hibbert is a Classic 5 IN any standard Basketball lineup....in JO'Bs lineup...Chandler would be the 5 all the time with some freaky wierd Small Ball PG lineup.

I think in Obie's world Chandler is a 6 and Roy is a 7, which means he'd rather play no one that big.

Jonathan
02-19-2009, 02:04 PM
Basically, you're saying no deal at all, which is fine, but myopic.

Why should our team take on another long term contract and not get rid of another one is my reasoning. Murphy, Dunleavy, Tinsley, & Chandler are a lot of money.

Speed
02-19-2009, 02:04 PM
Exactly. This is a salary dump, period.

I like that Chandler's contract is only for two more seasons after this one. He would expire the same year as Murphy and Dunleavy. We could literally rebuild big time in two years with all of the big expirings we would have then.

I really didn't realize Chandler only had 2 more years after this season, it's really a no lose situation. It's odd because the price has been set for Chandler with the previous botched trade. The Hornets really can't be dealing from a position of power.

Trader Joe
02-19-2009, 02:04 PM
Obie's dream NBA lineup looks something like this...

Mugsy, Spudd, Nate, A baby, and one of those things from the gremlin movies.

Speed
02-19-2009, 02:05 PM
Obie's dream NBA lineup looks something like this...

Mugsy, Spudd, Nate, A baby, and one of those things from the gremlin movies.

Now, that is funny. A baby, I'm still laughing.

Cherokee
02-19-2009, 02:06 PM
i love them too. got any?

Yeah, some guy on here was saying that most of Murhpy's rebounds are taken out of his teammates hands. As if that didn't happen on a huge percentage of the rebounds in the league. :happydanc

Shade
02-19-2009, 02:07 PM
Obie's dream NBA lineup looks something like this...

Mugsy, Spudd, Nate, A baby, and one of those things from the gremlin movies.

http://weblogs.newsday.com/entertainment/tv/blog/mini_me.gif

Cherokee
02-19-2009, 02:07 PM
Now, that is funny. A baby, I'm still laughing.

I wonder what his ideal small lineup would include?

tde3000
02-19-2009, 02:07 PM
Obie's dream NBA lineup looks something like this...

Mugsy, Spudd, Nate, A baby, and one of those things from the gremlin movies.

actually, sometimes i find diener at center after the computer made substitutions in nba 2k9.

tde3000
02-19-2009, 02:08 PM
Yeah, some guy on here was saying that most of Murhpy's rebounds are taken out of his teammates hands. As if that didn't happen on a huge percentage of the rebounds in the league. :happydanc

man, that dude is HILARIOUS!

edit: umm, no. :)

Trader Joe
02-19-2009, 02:09 PM
http://weblogs.newsday.com/entertainment/tv/blog/mini_me.gif

He'd be sixth man for sure.

count55
02-19-2009, 02:11 PM
Well, we know the Hornets are willing to deal for less than what we could put together so this becomes the key question. Will the Simons be willing to pay?

Or, how much are they willing to pay?

To the Hornets, the getting out from under the entire Chandler contract is probably more valuable than getting a solid player like Foster that they have to pay, and getting only half the savings.

To the Pacers, absorbing all of Chandler's salary by sending only expirings would put them in dire financial straits with only a limited benefit on the court...certainly not a quantum leap.

So, it's not just up to the Simons, but the Hornets have to meet them halfway.


Exactly. This is a salary dump, period.

I like that Chandler's contract is only for two more seasons after this one. He would expire the same year as Murphy and Dunleavy. We could literally rebuild big time in two years with all of the big expirings we would have then.

Two years is going to be an awfully long time in this economic environment. I'd definitely do a Chandler for Foster/Expiring deal, but it's a huge risk for the Simons. It puts them in danger of the tax next year, but they can likely avoid that. However, I'm not sure they'd be able to dodge the bullet the year after that.

ChicagoJ
02-19-2009, 02:11 PM
I think in Obie's world Chandler is a 6 and Roy is a 7, which means he'd rather play no one that big.

:lol:

Cherokee
02-19-2009, 02:11 PM
man, that dude is HILARIOUS!

edit: umm, no. :)

OK, back it up. Exactly how many of Murphy's rebounds have been taken out of his teammates hands, and how does that compare with the other top rebounders in the league?

HC
02-19-2009, 02:12 PM
Not a chance. Nobody would take him off our hands. He could average 16/16 and still not equal his contract.

What, you have got to be a hater plain and simple. What a ridiculous statement.

count55
02-19-2009, 02:13 PM
Why should our team take on another long term contract and not get rid of another one is my reasoning. Murphy, Dunleavy, Tinsley, & Chandler are a lot of money.

A) You think Chandler can give you some game, and B) the skin you have to put in is Foster, whose contract is smaller, but just as long as the others.

ChicagoJ
02-19-2009, 02:14 PM
I wonder what his ideal small lineup would include?

PG - Tweety Bird
SG - Speedy Gonzales
SF - Roadrunner
PF - Ford
C - Deiner

flox
02-19-2009, 02:14 PM
Wow no one here really understand's obie. lol

sad.

we would play much different defense with chandler.

tde3000
02-19-2009, 02:14 PM
OK, back it up. Exactly how many of Murphy's rebounds have been taken out of his teammates hands, and how does that compare with the other top rebounders in the league?

to be honest, i have no idea. :D
all i know is from what people on this board say.

Trader Joe
02-19-2009, 02:17 PM
PG - Tweety Bird
SG - Speedy Gonzales
SF - Roadrunner
PF - Ford
C - Deiner

Roadrunner was at least 4 or 5 feet tall, way too tall in the cartoon world to ever be an effective small forward in Obie's system. He might be backup center.

McKeyFan
02-19-2009, 02:17 PM
All other things aside, I'd like to see Foster get the chance to play for a contender.

31andonly
02-19-2009, 02:17 PM
Wow no one here really understand's obie. lol

sad.

we would play much different defense with chandler.

Do YOU understand Obie??

Cherokee
02-19-2009, 02:18 PM
to be honest, i have no idea. :D
all i know is from what people on this board say.

Thank you.

Speed
02-19-2009, 02:20 PM
OK, back it up. Exactly how many of Murphy's rebounds have been taken out of his teammates hands, and how does that compare with the other top rebounders in the league?

Or Bill Russell.

flox
02-19-2009, 02:20 PM
Do YOU understand Obie??

Yeah. It's pretty obvious what he's doing.

Trader Joe
02-19-2009, 02:22 PM
Yeah. It's pretty obvious what he's doing.

Can you hook me up with your cable provider?

Cherokee
02-19-2009, 02:24 PM
Or Bill Russell.

I remember seeing Bill Russell practically throw Tommy Heinsohn over his shoulder ripping a rebound down once, and Heinsohn was no weak sister. Russell almost ripped his arms off.

Shade
02-19-2009, 02:24 PM
PG - Tweety Bird
SG - Speedy Gonzales
SF - Roadrunner
PF - Ford
C - Deiner

You're thinking way too big:

PG - Atom
SG - Amoeba
SF - Eddie Gill
PF - Dust Particle
C - Half-Eaten Gummy Bear

Justin Tyme
02-19-2009, 02:26 PM
What, you have got to be a hater plain and simple. What a ridiculous statement.


This was brought a week or two ago, and I started watching to see if there was any validity to the statement. Yes, there is some, but not to extent some seem to feel. My feeling is if and when he takes a reb away from a smaller player, guard, I have no problem, if he takes one away from a big, then shame on them.

Trader Joe
02-19-2009, 02:26 PM
You're thinking way too big:

PG - Atom
SG - Amoeba
SF - Eddie Gill
PF - Dust Particle
C - Half-Eaten Gummy Bear

You have all successfully murdered my joke in cold blood.

Speed
02-19-2009, 02:26 PM
Point-That cricket from Pinochio
Shooting Guard-Tinkerbell
SF-A smurf
PF-Kid Rocks deceased side kick
C-deceases Herve Villici (sp?)

Bench-mayor of munchskin land and those 3 tough guys from the lolipop guild, sorry lolipop Guuuiiiiiiiilllllllllddddd. And we welcome you to Obie land.

And Deiner.

To Indy-KAPOW, take that.

Bball
02-19-2009, 02:27 PM
PG - Tweety Bird
SG - Speedy Gonzales
SF - Roadrunner
PF - Ford
C - Deiner

Let's be serious and give the man the credit he is due. The lineup would be:


SG - Jack
PG- Ford
C- Speedy Gonzales
SF - Diener
C - Roadrunner

Jack and Ford have to be on the floor at the same time. It's an OBrien Man-Law...

Trader Joe
02-19-2009, 02:28 PM
Yep, triple-homicide. No motive.

flox
02-19-2009, 02:28 PM
Can you hook me up with your cable provider?

I don't use cable.

Speed
02-19-2009, 02:30 PM
I remember seeing Bill Russell practically throw Tommy Heinsohn over his shoulder ripping a rebound down once, and Heinsohn was no weak sister. Russell almost ripped his arms off.

I am just fundamentally for any discussion that involves a compare and contrast involving RV and Bill Russell. The possibilities are mind boggling.

Trader Joe
02-19-2009, 02:30 PM
I don't use cable.

Dish?

Speed
02-19-2009, 02:30 PM
Jack and Ford have to be on the floor at the same time. It's an OBrien Man-Law...

How would you guard the perimeter like Obie said.

Cherokee
02-19-2009, 02:31 PM
I am just fundamentally for any discussion that involves a compare and contrast involving RV and Bill Russell. The possibilities are mind boggling.

Well, they both played basketball.

31andonly
02-19-2009, 02:31 PM
Yesterday I even saw Diener, Ford and Jack on the floor at the same time...good god..

Speed
02-19-2009, 02:33 PM
I just want to go on record that while the deadline deal may not happen, this has to be one of the best threads ever. To include Bill Russell, RV, and a cast of future Obie line ups, nice work all.

Bball
02-19-2009, 02:34 PM
How would you guard the perimeter like Obie said.

Same as every game... talk about it but don't actually address it.

ChicagoJ
02-19-2009, 02:37 PM
Let's be serious and give the man the credit he is due. The lineup would be:


SG - Jack
PG- Ford
C- Speedy Gonzales
SF - Diener
C - Roadrunner

Jack and Ford have to be on the floor at the same time. It's an OBrien Man-Law...

I thought about that, but I really struggled with dropping either Speedy or Tweety. Anyway, I put on my small-ball cap and thought the Speedy/ Tweety/ Roadrunner combo would be more appealing to O'Brien than the Ford/ Jack/ Deiner combo.

PS - you have two centers. I guess we'll call your lineup "Twin Towers"?

flox
02-19-2009, 02:38 PM
Dish?

broadband league pass.

anyway just maybe sometimes watch a few spurs games and see if you notice some similarities.

mildlysane
02-19-2009, 02:39 PM
You're thinking way too big:

PG - Atom
SG - Amoeba
SF - Eddie Gill
PF - Dust Particle
C - Half-Eaten Gummy Bear
Nothing to add on topic; just wanted to say I like your avatar.

indygeezer
02-19-2009, 02:40 PM
I thought about that, but I really struggled with dropping either Speedy or Tweety. Anyway, I put on my small-ball cap and thought the Speedy/ Tweety/ Roadrunner combo would be more appealing to O'Brien than the Ford/ Jack/ Deiner combo.

PS - you have two centers. I guess we'll call your lineup "Twin Towers"?

I'm replacing Roadrunner with Papa Smurf.

ChicagoJ
02-19-2009, 02:40 PM
broadband league pass.

anyway just maybe sometimes watch a few spurs games and see if you notice some similarities.

Both teams start five players, have a few players on their bench, have a head coach and mascot, and score more than six points every game and have never given up more than 200.

Anything else?

Cherokee
02-19-2009, 02:41 PM
Maybe JOB will trade for Nate Robinson. That way he could put him on the floor when he wants to go big.

ChicagoJ
02-19-2009, 02:41 PM
I'm replacing Roadrunner with Papa Smurf.

Its all Looney Tunes/ Merrie Melodies for me, pal.

:tongue:

indygeezer
02-19-2009, 02:43 PM
Its all Looney Tunes/ Merrie Melodies for me, pal.

:tongue:

Figures.

31andonly
02-19-2009, 02:47 PM
Well...seems like nothing's gonna happen.. :(

spazzxb
02-19-2009, 02:47 PM
Boy sure is quiet, I am starting to give up hope for a trade. Has anyone reported anything about Danny's ankle?

duke dynamite
02-19-2009, 02:49 PM
T-minus 10 minutes...

BRushWithDeath
02-19-2009, 02:52 PM
What, you have got to be a hater plain and simple. What a ridiculous statement.

Not at all. He very well may be the worst defensive big in the entire league. He doesn't get tough rebounds. He's allergic to offensive rebounds. He doesn't block out. He doesn't score inside. He's a good three point shooter. He's not a terrible passer. If he averaged 16/16 he'd still be all those things. His defense alone makes him not worth his contract.

DGPR
02-19-2009, 02:56 PM
Hope we get a good draft pick or else these expiring deals are just that..... expiring.

Bball
02-19-2009, 02:58 PM
I thought about that, but I really struggled with dropping either Speedy or Tweety. Anyway, I put on my small-ball cap and thought the Speedy/ Tweety/ Roadrunner combo would be more appealing to O'Brien than the Ford/ Jack/ Deiner combo.

PS - you have two centers. I guess we'll call your lineup "Twin Towers"?

Roadrunner is more of a PF in O'Brien's system.

O'Brien is fascinated with Tweety Bird at SF because he reminds him of another famous SF... Larry Bird. So you might be correct he'd carve out a starting role for Bird... I mean Tweety....

-Bball

indygeezer
02-19-2009, 02:58 PM
Don't give up hope, remember they can announce the trades for a couple of hours after the Deadline.

count55
02-19-2009, 02:58 PM
Ahh...I see your mistake.....Chandler is a classic 4 and Hibbert is a Classic 5 IN any standard Basketball lineup....in JO'Bs lineup...Chandler would be the 5 all the time with some freaky wierd Small Ball PG lineup.

Yeah, I'm not making a mistake. If Rasho had enough left to play 30+ minutes, Obie would play him that much. Hibbert's minutes are limited because Obie doesn't trust him.

Obie goes small with this team, because he looks at this team and deems it his best chance to win, not because he's Don Nelson (who absolutely dreams of starting five Paul Presseys.)

Now, I don't agree with his assumption, and I think he's making a mistake. However, the idea that he wouldn't play a center, or that he'd resist a dominant big man has no merit to it. (No, Chandler isn't a dominant big man.)

For example, take a look at Orlando. The way SVG is running that offense is probably virtually identical to the way that O'Brien would play with a guy like Howard. Send him down low, and array shooters around him. They may or may not play at a faster pace. SVG's Orlando is currently playing at a pace faster than Obie's Boston teams, and only slightly slower than his Philly team.

Look, O'Brien is clearly failing right now. I don't necessarily think he should be fired, but I no longer believe that he absolutely should be kept. I don't agree with a number of things that he is doing or does. However, I also find a lot of the criticism against him to be misdirected or flatly incorrect. What difference does that make? I mean, failing is failing, right? Well, if you don't get the "why did I fail" right, then you could repeat it or try to fix the wrong things.

O'Brien is not some small ball zealot, who steadfastly refuses to "demand" defense and worships at the altar of Paul Westhead. He is an old school coach, who has control issues that manifest themselves in a desire to over engineer defensive schemes, over rely on certain vets, and keep too short a leash on the young guys.

The problem with this team's defense isn't in that the coach doesn't demand defense. It's that he's demanding that they try to play an ill-conceived, over-engineered scheme. O'Brien would do well to listen to Frederic the Great's chastisement that "to defend everything is to defend nothing." He, and Lester Conner, are operating under the delusion that they can use schemes and designs to overcome the defensive deficiencies of the team. The defense is the basketball equivalent of Dave Kingman's swing. There's a giant hole in it, and it results in more strikeouts than home runs. They'd be better served by just acknowledging that they'll never be better than mediocre, and try to just keep players in front of them and minimize the damage. (To continue the metaphor, keep the inning going, and save an at bat for the next guy.)

I don't think I could possibly go farther off topic, other than to say:

I just got these new Sony Bluetooth headphones for my iPod, and they're awesome. I used my employee discount, and got them for about 40% off. Really good sound, and they work with my cell phone is well. The sound quality for the phone is great as well, which is impressive to me considering how small the mic is and the fact that it's way up by my ear.

Oh, yeah, and it had been a while since I watched BSG, and I had forgotten how attractive I find Grace Park.

I think O'Brien would play Chandler (though the deadline's about passed, and it may be moot) and Hibbert together. Maybe not this year, but probably next.

Pig Nash
02-19-2009, 02:59 PM
Lost in all this is the weird idea that Larry Bird could still "swoop" at his age.

DGPR
02-19-2009, 03:00 PM
The bell has rung.

Pig Nash
02-19-2009, 03:02 PM
You can still get deals coming in afterwords.

aero
02-19-2009, 03:03 PM
yeah all the deals will be announced within the next two hours or so...gotta have all the dust settle

duke dynamite
02-19-2009, 03:03 PM
You can still get deals coming in afterwords.
Bingo.

antone315
02-19-2009, 03:05 PM
hahaa you guys were aren't getting anybody and were keeping tinman just face reality haha:laugh::box:

Bball
02-19-2009, 03:06 PM
The bell has rung.

Ask not for whom the bell tolls....

Unclebuck
02-19-2009, 03:07 PM
Yeah often deals are not announced until 5, 6, 7 or even 8PM tonight. If two teams call the league at 2:59 and say they have a deal agreed to, the league has to "take the deal" and look it over and approve it. That can take a few hours especially if they have gotten 4 deals at the last minute

ChicagoJ
02-19-2009, 03:07 PM
I just want to go on record that while the deadline deal may not happen, this has to be one of the best threads ever. To include Bill Russell, RV, and a cast of future Obie line ups, nice work all.

Previous trade deadline day fun, courtesy of UncleBuck:

http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/showthread.php?t=899

("Pistons are the best team in the East, with or without Artest")

DGPR
02-19-2009, 03:09 PM
hahaa you guys were aren't getting anybody and were keeping tinman just face reality haha:laugh::box:


You say "you guys" as if you aren't a fan of the team like us.

duke dynamite
02-19-2009, 03:09 PM
hahaa you guys were aren't getting anybody and were keeping tinman just face reality haha:laugh::box:
:hmm:

count55
02-19-2009, 03:09 PM
You say "you guys" as if you aren't a fan of the team like us.

You say that as if it would be a bad thing if he weren't.

DGPR
02-19-2009, 03:11 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=TradeTalkRoundup-090218
ESPN.com

POSTED: Feb. 19 -- 3:05 p.m. ET
<!--INLINE MUG-->
http://a.espncdn.com/i/headshots/nba/players/65/11.jpg
<CENTER>Alston</CENTER>
<!--END INLINE MUG-->
Marc Stein: Looks like we have a fairly significant three-way deal that has been submitted to the league just before the trade deadline.
NBA front-office sources tell ESPN.com that Orlando is acquiring Rafer Alston (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=11) from Houston to fill the void created at point guard by Jameer Nelson (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=2439)'s shoulder injury.
The Rockets will receive Memphis guard Kyle Lowry (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3012), Orlando forward Brian Cook (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1998) and perhaps two other minimum-salaried players to make the finances work.
The Grizzlies will receive a first-round pick from Orlando.

The first post-deadline possible deal.

DGPR
02-19-2009, 03:11 PM
You say that as if it would be a bad thing if he weren't.

You have a good point.

antone315
02-19-2009, 03:12 PM
You say "you guys" as if you aren't a fan of the team like us.

Oh sorry bud let me rephrase that for you. I didn't know I was going to be critique on my spelling and grammar.

You guys WE are not getting anything and tinsley is staying here FOREVER!!!:laugh::box: Better?

Unclebuck
02-19-2009, 03:13 PM
Previous trade deadline day fun, courtesy of UncleBuck:

http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/showthread.php?t=899

("Pistons are the best team in the East, with or without Artest")

Those were the days -not many agreed with me

Bball
02-19-2009, 03:14 PM
You say "you guys" as if you aren't a fan of the team like us.


Change 'were' to 'we're' and I think you better get his meaning...

DGPR
02-19-2009, 03:14 PM
Oh sorry bud let me rephrase that for you. I didn't know I was going to be critique on my spelling and grammar.

You guys WE are not getting anything and tinsley is staying here FOREVER!!!:laugh::box: Better?

I didn't realize you were going to "be critique" on your grammar or spelling either, bud. It said what you typed and I read it as it was.

duke dynamite
02-19-2009, 03:17 PM
Those were the days - not many agreed with me.
Does anyone agree with you now???

(except me)

antone315
02-19-2009, 03:18 PM
I didn't realize you were going to "be critique" on your grammar or spelling either, bud. It said what you typed and I read it as it was.

Whatever who cares. More importantly we as pacers fans are sitting around on this damn site waiting for nothing and are excited about the trade deadline that did'nt do a damn thing for this team. Kinda frustrating don't you think?

duke dynamite
02-19-2009, 03:20 PM
Whatever who cares. More importantly we as pacers fans are sitting around on this damn site waiting for nothing and are excited about the trade deadline that did'nt do a damn thing for this team. Kinda frustrating don't you think?
That we know of yet...

That and you're waiting as well...otherwise you wouldn't be here...lol

DGPR
02-19-2009, 03:21 PM
ESPN says they still have reports coming in.

Pig Nash
02-19-2009, 03:23 PM
And now Nate Robinson is a King.

d_c
02-19-2009, 03:23 PM
ESPN says they still have reports coming in.


You can still work out a deal if you filed for an extension ahead of time with the league to work out details. The Hornets and Warriors did this a few years ago.

jeffg-body
02-19-2009, 03:23 PM
I think I just heard the Tin man order up another round of beers at PT's for everyone. I had a feeling he was going nowhere soon.:champagne

cramerica
02-19-2009, 03:24 PM
Those were the days -not many agreed with me
I still remember you saying that UB. I didn't think you were right at first but I hated that they got him for nothing. Good call...

duke dynamite
02-19-2009, 03:24 PM
And now Nate Robinson is a King.
Wow.

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/57412/20090219/knicks_say_no_to_kings_on_nate_and_jeffries_deal/

antone315
02-19-2009, 03:24 PM
That we know of yet...

That and you're waiting as well...otherwise you wouldn't be here...lol

hahaha i know that and I'm really frustrated!!!!!!!!!! haha give me something jesus...they should give us free tickets for waiting for some news for being loyal fans:D:dance:

Pig Nash
02-19-2009, 03:25 PM
Allegedly. Nate/Jeffries for Kenny Thomas

Bball
02-19-2009, 03:25 PM
Previous trade deadline day fun, courtesy of UncleBuck:

http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/showthread.php?t=899

("Pistons are the best team in the East, with or without Artest")

So once again I have to go back and read all thru a bumped thread to see if I embarrassed myself. And once again I survived. Not only that but I can see that it wasn't the 1st time that thread was bumped and I'd already been down that road of having to re-read my thoughts with hindsight now a guide.

BTW... Who was that Kegboy guy posting early in that thread? He was even wanting UB's Pacer tickets...

antone315
02-19-2009, 03:25 PM
I think I just heard the Tin man order up another round of beers at PT's for everyone. I had a feeling he was going nowhere soon.:champagne

I'll take two please:buddies:

Kstat
02-19-2009, 03:26 PM
if it's any consolation....you guys are probably better of without chandler in the long run. Not this year, but in the long run.

antone315
02-19-2009, 03:28 PM
if it's any consolation....you guys are probably better of without chandler in the long run. Not this year, but in the long run.

man were just hoping for some news right that involves us, anything!!

Kstat
02-19-2009, 03:30 PM
Why? Indiana almost never gets involved in deadline deals.

duke dynamite
02-19-2009, 03:30 PM
hahaha i know that and I'm really frustrated!!!!!!!!!! haha give me something jesus...they should give us free tickets for waiting for some news for being loyal fans:D:dance:
I'm sure I could think of a better reason to get free tickets right now...

Kstat
02-19-2009, 03:31 PM
if you want frustration, I know the pistons are screwed this season but I also know they can't make a knee-jerk deadline deal, even though they could have their pick of about two dozen different players right now, because doing so would ruin their summer plans, which have much more potential.

In other words, I'm stuck hoping they DONT improve the team today, knowing full well its giving up on the 09 season.

antone315
02-19-2009, 03:33 PM
Why? Indiana almost never gets involved in deadline deals.

Because this team sucks right now and we have to many injuries. Something needs to happen. You just get use to winning ways and you always want that to happen year after year. Now were just an inconsistent team trying to find our way back and very frustrating

Pig Nash
02-19-2009, 03:34 PM
No Nate Robinson trade.

antone315
02-19-2009, 03:35 PM
if you want frustration, I know the pistons are screwed this season but I also know they can't make a knee-jerk deadline deal, even though they could have their pick of about two dozen different players right now, because doing so would ruin their summer plans, which have much more potential.
In other words, I'm stuck hoping they DONT improve the team today, knowing full well its giving up on the 09 season.

atleast the pistons have a winning record and as of right now are playoff bound unlike the pacers. I think our situation is a little worse considering granger dun foster are hurt as well

duke dynamite
02-19-2009, 03:36 PM
No Nate Robinson trade.
http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/57412/20090219/knicks_say_no_to_kings_on_nate_and_jeffries_deal/

lol, sucks for Sacramento.

Kstat
02-19-2009, 03:37 PM
the pistons have a winning record for maybe another week. My comment in the free press about them not finishing .500 is sadly coming true.

bambam
02-19-2009, 03:39 PM
Why? Indiana almost never gets involved in deadline deals.


And from what i have heard, Larry is a pain in the butt to deal with. I mean come on...you have Tinsely not playing and havent traded him. Get crap...get a couple 2nd round picks. Just unload the dude. Wow, plus have two good expiring contracts and cant find any good deals?

My guess, the economy has also hurt the teams wanting to make BIG moves. With teams borrowoing money from the NBA, then they really are not looking to take anything else on.

antone315
02-19-2009, 03:39 PM
kstat we will be right there with you my man haha

Pig Nash
02-19-2009, 03:39 PM
Now I think there's no chance for a deal, not even murmurs in an hour past the deadline. Too bad.

antone315
02-19-2009, 03:42 PM
Now I think there's no chance for a deal, not even murmurs in an hour past the deadline. Too bad.

with larry bird at the helm nothing will ever happen..we wouldn't even be able to trade tin piece of string cheese