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McKeyFan
02-17-2009, 10:35 PM
Danny had a weird game.

Nevertheless, I see this win as a watershed for Granger and for our team. We won a game we were supposed to win. We held the lead, like we should have.

Much of this had to do with Danny imposing his personality and his all-star status on the game. He let Miller and the refs know he wasn't going to put up with cheap shots and getting pushed around and taken advantage of. He had several other plays where he got fouled, got angry, went back and fouled someone else, made a bunch of blocks, and just made his presence known. It made a real difference, and we won the game.

He's gone from proving he's an all-star to using his all-star status to set the tone of the game and ensure our lead was kept and the game was won, ugly as it all was.

Go Pacers.

Cherokee
02-17-2009, 10:39 PM
I was glad to see Danny hit the boards more than usual tonight. The Pacers needed it, too. Troy hit some timely shots down the stretch, and Roy had a nice game. I couldln't help but notice that the minute Diener went out is when Philly got the momentum going its way. He did a nice job when he was in the lineup.

Conflict
02-17-2009, 10:42 PM
Danny had a weird game.

Nevertheless, I see this win as a watershed for Granger and for our team. We won a game we were supposed to win. We held the lead, like we should have.

Much of this had to do with Danny imposing his personality and his all-star status on the game. He let Miller and the refs know he wasn't going to put up with cheap shots and getting pushed around and taken advantage of. He had several other plays where he got fouled, got angry, went back and fouled someone else, made a bunch of blocks, and just made his presence known. It made a real difference, and we won the game.

He's gone from proving he's an all-star to using his all-star status to set the tone of the game and ensuring our lead was kept and the game was won, ugly as it all was.

Go Pacers.

Nice said and I agree with you. A few people said he had to many turnovers in the last quarter, but twice it was a clear foul the refs didn't call, frustrating.

Other than that it was a good game. Pacers got a good lead, protected it (almost didn't btw ;) ) and it was a team effort, 7 pacers in double figures with scoring and a nice statline for Danny.

Speed
02-17-2009, 10:42 PM
I'm not a fan of what DG did tonight.

I saw Lebron catch a shot earlier this year. He didn't go after the guy, he didn't go after the refs and cry. He rubbed his mouth for a quick second.

About 5 possessions later, he accidently caught the guy HARD across his face with a forearm as he was driving to the basket. Never even looked back at the guy to see what happen. Announcers never noticed it, no one mentioned it. I think the guy got the message, though. Lebron actually got the foul call on the play. Next time that same player had a chance to give Lebron a shot, he stepped away and let him score.

I love DG, but I'd rather he handle it that way or laugh at Andre Miller. Danny's tougher than the way he acted tonight especially against Reggie Evans too.

BlueNGold
02-17-2009, 10:46 PM
I was watching the second half a bit bewildered. When did they learn to play defense. Seriously, what happened? Is it Quisy?

MyFavMartin
02-17-2009, 10:47 PM
Looked like Reggie was committing 3 fouls on every possession. Guess that's what he gets paid for.

In related news, I have a hole in my pants.

aceace
02-17-2009, 10:47 PM
Charlotte is in O/T so they will be tired tomorrow, lets hope for 3 O/T.

MyFavMartin
02-17-2009, 10:49 PM
Is it Quisy?

Dunno, but I liked it.

Really liked Roy and the shot blocking he brought and Murph's shot making at the end of the game to keep the sixers at bay.

Fealt like Rasho and Quisy were being featured, probably not. But it is nice to see how well they're playing.

McKeyFan
02-17-2009, 10:49 PM
On another topic, I am more impressed with Stacy Paetz the more I hear her.

At first I thought she was just an "info babe." No, she's really sharp, knows basketball, comfortable and quick witted during the interviews.

aceace
02-17-2009, 10:51 PM
Did anyone listen to that last exchange between Roy and Stacy.... Almost sounded like Roy has the hots for her.

McKeyFan
02-17-2009, 10:55 PM
Did anyone listen to that last exchange between Roy and Stacy.... Almost sounded like Roy has the hots for her.

Roy's a character. He could be the next spokesman/face of the franchise.

Actually, his delivery sounds kinda like Reggie to me.

pwee31
02-17-2009, 10:57 PM
A healthy Quis is definitely a good things... on both ends of the floor.

Big Roy is coming along really well, glad to see the guy playing well, hope he can continue to get minutes, and stay out of foul trouble.

I still feel Diener is the best PG on this team. Is he a better player then Tj and Jack... NO, but is he a better PG... YES. He pushes the ball, while staying under control. He makes good decisions and doesn't commit many turnovers. He's undersized, but he doesn't back down on the defensive end and tries rebounding as well. Love the kid

I like the fire I'm seeing in Granger, I just hope he can keep it under control, and not explode as often. I thought he did really well late in the game, where I felt he got hacked multiple times, yet no foul was called, and it resulted in multiple steals. He kept his composure and continued to play.

When Murph is making shots... he's a really hard cover.. I'll keep it at that.

I thought Rush played some excellent defensive tonight, it doesn't show in the box score, but I thought he held his own.

Nice team effort tonight.. on both ends. I still feel the Pacers are an athletic PF/C away from being a solid team.

count55
02-17-2009, 11:02 PM
On another topic, I am more impressed with Stacy Paetz the more I hear her.

At first I thought she was just an "info babe." No, she's really sharp, knows basketball, comfortable and quick witted during the interviews.

Plus, I've seen her at the B a few times...at least she knows a good bar.

aceace
02-17-2009, 11:06 PM
In other NBA DOT COM NEWS......

Los Angeles Clippers forward Zach Randolph was ejected for throwing a punch at Phoenix's Louis Amundson in the first quarter on Tuesday night.
Amundson and Randolph became tangled up while going for a rebound late in the first quarter. Randolph knocked Amundson to the floor with his left elbow, then glared down at him. When Amundson stood to face Randolph, the Clippers forward threw a punch with his left hand and connected with a solid blow. He was immediately ejected.
The Suns led 41-26 after one quarter.

Einstein
02-17-2009, 11:08 PM
This team was definitely missing Quis in my opinion. That being said, the D was a team effort. Announcers and pregame interviews made it sound like JOB had put heavy emphasis on playing consistent, detail oriented, D.

That's the rah, rah analysis. Part of me also thinks that the Philly O versus the Pacer D is the perfect matchup for us. The P's love to clog the paint and the 6'ers can't buy a 3 point shot.

Justin Tyme
02-17-2009, 11:13 PM
I said this a few weeks ago, and I'll say it again "I don't like Granger's chippy attitude." I believe it's possibly getting to be a problem.

Yes, he was fouled numerous times with no calls, but he's going to have to keep his temper under control. Other teams are seeing it and are trying to expose it by fouling him. He needs to stay in the game, and quit getting frustrated.

If I was an opposing coach, I'd have a player get Danny worked up to get his head out of the game and possibly tossed from the game. As far as I'm concerned, he's going too far to prove his macho image of not being soft nor taking hard fouls.

PacersRule
02-17-2009, 11:15 PM
I'm not a fan of what DG did tonight.

I saw Lebron catch a shot earlier this year. He didn't go after the guy, he didn't go after the refs and cry. He rubbed his mouth for a quick second.

About 5 possessions later, he accidently caught the guy HARD across his face with a forearm as he was driving to the basket. Never even looked back at the guy to see what happen. Announcers never noticed it, no one mentioned it. I think the guy got the message, though. Lebron actually got the foul call on the play. Next time that same player had a chance to give Lebron a shot, he stepped away and let him score.

I love DG, but I'd rather he handle it that way or laugh at Andre Miller. Danny's tougher than the way he acted tonight especially against Reggie Evans too.

Me neither. Danny shouldn't be so rough. Sure he got fouled and the refs were bad enough to miss it, but Danny should get them back at hitting a couple threes, not going up there and getting himself a technical.
The other time when Reggie Evans was trying to slap the ball away from Danny, he got fouled I believe twice, but it seemed to me like he was "daring" Evans to try. Danny is the leader of the team, he shouldn't let his emotions fly like that, and he doesn't seem to shoot as well when he's angry.

pwee31
02-17-2009, 11:18 PM
In other NBA DOT COM NEWS......

Los Angeles Clippers forward Zach Randolph was ejected for throwing a punch at Phoenix's Louis Amundson in the first quarter on Tuesday night.
Amundson and Randolph became tangled up while going for a rebound late in the first quarter. Randolph knocked Amundson to the floor with his left elbow, then glared down at him. When Amundson stood to face Randolph, the Clippers forward threw a punch with his left hand and connected with a solid blow. He was immediately ejected.
The Suns led 41-26 after one quarter.

Earning that Z-Bo nickname :laugh:

But seriously, that type of stuff isn't needed. Another reason why a lot of GMs want nothing to do with the guy. He's talented, a black hole a lot of the time but still talented. Too bad talent only goes so far.

In other news, the Bobcats lose in OT to the Magic, which leads to a big game for us tomorrow.

Unfortunately the Bucks win IN Detroit, and the Knicks beat the Spurs in OT :bs:

PacersRule
02-17-2009, 11:18 PM
Did anyone listen to that last exchange between Roy and Stacy.... Almost sounded like Roy has the hots for her.

LOL! Yeah, "Hey Stace!"

And Stacy said Hibbert is her mother's favorite player because "he is so nice to her baby girl." Anyway, Hibbert's a funny guy.

McKeyFan
02-17-2009, 11:19 PM
I think there's an argument that guys like Lebron already get the respect they need from the refs.

Thus, you can argue that Danny needs to be a little more demonstrative about it.

I could see him toning things down soon. He's establishing himself right now, and that might not only be wise, but necessary.

Kuq_e_Zi91
02-17-2009, 11:21 PM
I disagree. I liked that he sent a message by not letting Miller just get away with a body check like that. It lit a fire under him and I like that. He came back after that and he attacked, he was blocking shots, hitting the glass for rebounds. He was a force. After the slow 1st quarter, it seemed like the hard foul woke him up a little bit.

PacersRule
02-17-2009, 11:22 PM
Earning that Z-Bo nickname :laugh:

But seriously, that type of stuff isn't needed. Another reason why a lot of GMs want nothing to do with the guy. He's talented, a black hole a lot of the time but still talented. Too bad talent only goes so far.

In other news, the Bobcats lose in OT to the Magic, which leads to a big game for us tomorrow.

Unfortunately the Bucks win IN Detroit, and the Knicks beat the Spurs in OT :bs:

Seems like everyone's making a playoff push. The Bucks and Knicks got some good wins today. I really hope the Pacers can keep the defense up and string some wins together.

MyFavMartin
02-17-2009, 11:25 PM
Bulls have an easy schedule. Bucks and Knicks have tough schedules. Pacers... 2nd easiest.

Might that put Chicago and Indy at 7 and 8 with Phily and the Bucks falling out?

Einstein
02-17-2009, 11:32 PM
I said this a few weeks ago, and I'll say it again "I don't like Granger's chippy attitude." I believe it's possibly getting to be a problem.

Yes, he was fouled numerous times with no calls, but he's going to have to keep his temper under control. Other teams are seeing it and are trying to expose it by fouling him. He needs to stay in the game, and quit getting frustrated.

If I was an opposing coach, I'd have a player get Danny worked up to get his head out of the game and possibly tossed from the game. As far as I'm concerned, he's going too far to prove his macho image of not being soft nor taking hard fouls.

This is a very interesting insight and I will be very impressed if this new attitude really does blow up and cost us games.

Right now I'm inclined to think that this is a pure manifestation of his will to win. It comes from within and is authentic. I think it carries him and, more importantly, this team.

Of course, I had a lot of money invested in the stock market too...

kester99
02-17-2009, 11:37 PM
Milwaukee's going to have to do some serious folding if we're to catch them. I expected that earlier, but they've shown no signs they're going to cooperate.

LOCBLB613
02-17-2009, 11:42 PM
its a game of emotion and passion if u dont have it then u arent a real bball player

Hicks
02-18-2009, 12:00 AM
I said this a few weeks ago, and I'll say it again "I don't like Granger's chippy attitude." I believe it's possibly getting to be a problem.

Yes, he was fouled numerous times with no calls, but he's going to have to keep his temper under control. Other teams are seeing it and are trying to expose it by fouling him. He needs to stay in the game, and quit getting frustrated.

If I was an opposing coach, I'd have a player get Danny worked up to get his head out of the game and possibly tossed from the game. As far as I'm concerned, he's going too far to prove his macho image of not being soft nor taking hard fouls.

The thing is, when Danny gets mad, he usually plays better than he was earlier in the game. He's not the kind of guy who will typically play worse when he's frustrated.

avoidingtheclowns
02-18-2009, 12:11 AM
so, remember that time where danny granger lacked the competitive fire and attitude to be a leader or winner? good times.

Trader Joe
02-18-2009, 12:17 AM
so, remember that time where danny granger lacked the competitive fire and attitude to be a leader or winner? good times.

I heard he was a whiner.

Thesterovic
02-18-2009, 12:17 AM
The thing is, when Danny gets mad, he usually plays better than he was earlier in the game. He's not the kind of guy who will typically play worse when he's frustrated.

A bit like Reggie was.

Evan_The_Dude
02-18-2009, 12:18 AM
so, remember that time where danny granger lacked the competitive fire and attitude to be a leader or winner? good times.

Thank You. A little attitude isn't a big deal as long as you're not throwing punches in the stands... Or failing to get back on defense because you're busy arguing with the refs.

Trader Joe
02-18-2009, 12:19 AM
Also, I'd like to point out that Reggie himself had a bit of a temper. Kobe can certainly attest to this.

BRushWithDeath
02-18-2009, 12:20 AM
Should be titled:


Sixers post game: Danny makes a fool of himself and Pacers win anyway.

plutarch
02-18-2009, 12:24 AM
good for danny that he is not taking any nonsense
i thought we played better after that sometimes stuff like that is needed for extra motivation

Kid Minneapolis
02-18-2009, 12:29 AM
Should be titled:


Sixers post game: Danny makes a fool of himself and Pacers win anyway.

Ya, okay. O_o

Dr. Hibbert
02-18-2009, 01:46 AM
If this was an isolated incident, good for him. But there's starting to be a pattern with Granger T's, and one of these days, it's going to cost a game.

PaceBalls
02-18-2009, 02:12 AM
Danny didn't throw any punches guys.. he just let Miller know that his cheap shot was not acceptable. I see no problem here.
Good win, Hibbert played so good Jim had to bench him... =/

Naptown_Seth
02-18-2009, 02:46 AM
The thing is, when Danny gets mad, he usually plays better than he was earlier in the game. He's not the kind of guy who will typically play worse when he's frustrated.
I knew this topic was going to get brought back up when that play went down, but honestly this was different. The play was stopped and the foul was clearly overly physical by Miller. When we see this stuff lets keep Reggie in mind and how he responded in year 4. What year was the fight with Jordan? Think of the scuffles to come with guys like Starks. And certainly Reggie got plenty of techs for complaining to the refs.

Sollozzo
02-18-2009, 02:50 AM
The Jordan fight was in 1993 I think.

Lord Helmet
02-18-2009, 02:54 AM
The Jordan fight was in 1993 I think.
I'm too young to be certain, but I'm pretty sure it was around that time, 93 or 94....

Trader Joe
02-18-2009, 02:55 AM
Reggie had all sorts of encounters, Jordan, Starks, Kobe, the list goes on, and that is not even counting the encounters that would have occurred had the Davis Bros. not been there watching his back and scaring the living **** out of anyone who didn't have at least one enforcer of their own.

Naptown_Seth
02-18-2009, 03:16 AM
For the game itself, recently in another thread discussing Hibbert I went off into a complaint about Rush also not getting PT. A big portion of that complaint was that the team had been giving up more points and getting blown out worse when Rush was not playing or not playing much. When he hit the doghouse the team started giving up the 110+ types of games.

Another element in play is Quis being out of course.

Well finally we are starting to see JOB slightly recognize this and play Hibbert and Rush in appropriate amounts, though I hate to say that some of it may be due to Dun and Foster being hurt. I hope that's not the whole case but I wonder.

Anyway, here we had a 91 point night and a good portion of that strong defense came when he had Rush, Quis and Danny on the floor together, as well as Diener at point, who might not be strong himself but his low TO approach and smarter team play suits a defensive squad more than TJ or Jack are right now.


Examples of Rush's defensive play - right after Danny's tech they had a hard Philly transition that looked to be a sure dunk. It was Rush who closed it out, forced the initial dunk to be aborted and missed which then led to Danny blocking the follow up rebound and potential putback.

Then right near the end of the 3rd he was on Miller, which blew his offense up especially the post game he'd been working on TJ. Well Miller tried to go baseline, Rush forced him under the rim. On the subsequent loose ball it bounced back out to the corner. Rush pointed to whomever was under the rim with Miller and said "take him" (paraphrase) and SPRINTED out to pick up the now unguarded Ivey. The ball was rotated to him but with Rush up on him they picked up a shot clock violation instead of getting a miracle shot up on the rim to reset the clock.

These are the McKey plays. They are plays where a guy stops a play from even getting started, so they don't even make highlights. What you get instead is 19 point quarters and mostly empty box scores.

I know people want to see the shooting and offense in general, but it's a 2 end sport and being a major factor at either end is a way to help the team win.



Speaking of defense, I'm going to have to back off the Danny=Pip thing for now because honestly DG couldn't carry Pip's jock when it comes to one on one defense. No doubt he's often an inspired help defender and that's great. But when called to show the footwork to keep a guy like Iggy in front of him he flat-out struggles.

Tonight you saw it happen within just a few seconds of going between DG and Quis. Iggy is getting a step on Danny over and over. Play stops, Quis enters and is sicked on Iggy and that s*** ended on basically the next possession. Iggy tried the same baseline drive he just torched Danny with but found that Quis was impassable and was forced to rotate the ball back out instead.

To me without a doubt the best defender on the team is Quis, with Rush coming in 2nd. I'd put Hibbert 3rd, but only in the context of defending the low post where he's surprisingly good. Then comes Danny and unfortunately not much else past him. McBob if he could get in; just tell me he couldn't have muscled up Reggie Evans and nipped that crap in the bud. Of course he was reported to have the flu, but I doubt that would have changed things based on his regular PT anymore.

At one point Jack and TJ re-entered in the 4th for Rush and then Diener and it got back to out of control right away. And if I see Baston over close out one more time this year and give up the drive by I'm going to puke.



One more Rush stat - in 13 minutes of PT his squads gave up 17 points. That's basically a 17 point quarter. I'll take some of those please, I'm all for only giving up 68 points.

Roaming Gnome
02-18-2009, 04:25 AM
Yeah, seems like when we went to small ball... The Sixers got right back into it.

Speed
02-18-2009, 06:36 AM
For the game itself, recently in another thread discussing Hibbert I went off into a complaint about Rush also not getting PT. A big portion of that complaint was that the team had been giving up more points and getting blown out worse when Rush was not playing or not playing much. When he hit the doghouse the team started giving up the 110+ types of games.

Another element in play is Quis being out of course.

Well finally we are starting to see JOB slightly recognize this and play Hibbert and Rush in appropriate amounts, though I hate to say that some of it may be due to Dun and Foster being hurt. I hope that's not the whole case but I wonder.

Anyway, here we had a 91 point night and a good portion of that strong defense came when he had Rush, Quis and Danny on the floor together, as well as Diener at point, who might not be strong himself but his low TO approach and smarter team play suits a defensive squad more than TJ or Jack are right now.


Examples of Rush's defensive play - right after Danny's tech they had a hard Philly transition that looked to be a sure dunk. It was Rush who closed it out, forced the initial dunk to be aborted and missed which then led to Danny blocking the follow up rebound and potential putback.

Then right near the end of the 3rd he was on Miller, which blew his offense up especially the post game he'd been working on TJ. Well Miller tried to go baseline, Rush forced him under the rim. On the subsequent loose ball it bounced back out to the corner. Rush pointed to whomever was under the rim with Miller and said "take him" (paraphrase) and SPRINTED out to pick up the now unguarded Ivey. The ball was rotated to him but with Rush up on him they picked up a shot clock violation instead of getting a miracle shot up on the rim to reset the clock.

These are the McKey plays. They are plays where a guy stops a play from even getting started, so they don't even make highlights. What you get instead is 19 point quarters and mostly empty box scores.

I know people want to see the shooting and offense in general, but it's a 2 end sport and being a major factor at either end is a way to help the team win.



Speaking of defense, I'm going to have to back off the Danny=Pip thing for now because honestly DG couldn't carry Pip's jock when it comes to one on one defense. No doubt he's often an inspired help defender and that's great. But when called to show the footwork to keep a guy like Iggy in front of him he flat-out struggles.

Tonight you saw it happen within just a few seconds of going between DG and Quis. Iggy is getting a step on Danny over and over. Play stops, Quis enters and is sicked on Iggy and that s*** ended on basically the next possession. Iggy tried the same baseline drive he just torched Danny with but found that Quis was impassable and was forced to rotate the ball back out instead.

To me without a doubt the best defender on the team is Quis, with Rush coming in 2nd. I'd put Hibbert 3rd, but only in the context of defending the low post where he's surprisingly good. Then comes Danny and unfortunately not much else past him. McBob if he could get in; just tell me he couldn't have muscled up Reggie Evans and nipped that crap in the bud. Of course he was reported to have the flu, but I doubt that would have changed things based on his regular PT anymore.

At one point Jack and TJ re-entered in the 4th for Rush and then Diener and it got back to out of control right away. And if I see Baston over close out one more time this year and give up the drive by I'm going to puke.



One more Rush stat - in 13 minutes of PT his squads gave up 17 points. That's basically a 17 point quarter. I'll take some of those please, I'm all for only giving up 68 points.

Nice work. Nice props to Rush. I completely agree on the best defensively players and how you have them listed. I thought Deiner played very good D on Louis tonight too. Love the Rush 17 point quarter acknowledgement. Again great assessment!!

D-BONE
02-18-2009, 07:15 AM
Well finally we are starting to see JOB slightly recognize this and play Hibbert and Rush in appropriate amounts, though I hate to say that some of it may be due to Dun and Foster being hurt. I hope that's not the whole case but I wonder.

Anyway, here we had a 91 point night and a good portion of that strong defense came when he had Rush, Quis and Danny on the floor together, as well as Diener at point, who might not be strong himself but his low TO approach and smarter team play suits a defensive squad more than TJ or Jack are right now.




I wondered the same thing about the imapact of no Foster and MDJ on the rookies minutes. Hope that's not the explanation. If it is, I could almost care less if we see Foster and MDJ the rest of this season. I know that sounds harsh, and I'm not dogging those guys on effort or attitude, but it just seems like their durability and production relative to their contracts really hinder us. Not to mention this topic of the PT for the rooks.

Anyway, could we please start either Quis or Rush at SG. Dare I say even Graham (ugh!)? Then Jack could play off the bench. Or, hell, bring TJ off the bench. I really don't care. I just don't want the two of them on the floor together so often.

Tom White
02-18-2009, 10:28 AM
Danny had a weird game.

Nevertheless, I see this win as a watershed for Granger and for our team. We won a game we were supposed to win. We held the lead, like we should have.

Much of this had to do with Danny imposing his personality and his all-star status on the game. He let Miller and the refs know he wasn't going to put up with cheap shots and getting pushed around and taken advantage of. He had several other plays where he got fouled, got angry, went back and fouled someone else, made a bunch of blocks, and just made his presence known. It made a real difference, and we won the game.

He's gone from proving he's an all-star to using his all-star status to set the tone of the game and ensure our lead was kept and the game was won, ugly as it all was.

Go Pacers.

I hate to do this, but I've got to disagree, to an extent.

On the Miller foul - I thought Granger basically ran right into him. Does Miller have any past history of flagrant fouls? That, I can't say for certain. Maybe someone else knows.

It seems to me that Granger is getting into the habit of "jawing" with the refs more and more recently. It is the absolute reverse of the way he used to handle things. All he needs to do is to let his play do his talking. I almost get the feeling he is getting the "I'm an all-star, you can't call that play that way" sort of demeanor. The last thing I want to see is a reappearance of the attitude that some of the past Pacers (O'Neal, Jackson, etc.) used to display.

Maybe I'm over-reading into all of this, or maybe the well entrenched memory of recent players' antics (and the fear of it happening again) are still too fresh in my mind. The thing is, I don't like what I think I'm seeing.

Hope I'm wrong about this.

BillS
02-18-2009, 10:32 AM
On the postgame show, in response to Duke, Kevin Lee said he felt Danny took a bad shot from Miller coming down on him and it might be a matter of Danny trying to protect his face more. In any event, Kevin didn't seem to feel it was totally unjustified, and his vantage point is right there on the floor.

xtacy
02-18-2009, 10:34 AM
Should be titled:


Sixers post game: Danny makes a fool of himself and Pacers win anyway.

i didn't watch the game. what happened? is there a video or can someone tell me?

Will Galen
02-18-2009, 11:11 AM
its a game of emotion and passion if u dont have it then u arent a real bball player

Nonsense!

OakMoses
02-18-2009, 11:27 AM
Yeah, seems like when we went to small ball... The Sixers got right back into it.

Not exactly. When were playing small ball with Diener, 'Quis, Rush, and Danny in the game, we were doing fine. Once Jack and Ford came in, it started to get away.



Anyway, could we please start either Quis or Rush at SG. Dare I say even Graham (ugh!)? Then Jack could play off the bench. Or, hell, bring TJ off the bench. I really don't care. I just don't want the two of them on the floor together so often.

I thought Jack played very well at SG in the first quarter. He pretty much destroyed Willie Green. He scored on him at will and kept him from getting any easy looks. Jack was pretty much the catalyst for the huge run the Pacers went on to start the game.

Other thoughts:

- This was the best game we've seen 'Quis play in a long time, probably since Dunleavy came back. When he's playing injured he looks like crap and I forget that when he's healthy he's actually quite good and that I like to watch him play.

- I think our end-game needs to be broken down into a couple different scenarios. If we've got the lead, like last night, I really think Diener needs to be the PG. If it's a back and forth type of game, then we can use Ford because we'll need him to create his own shots.

- I'm glad to see Roy finishing around the rim. Earlier in the season, he missed layups/dunks all the time because he wasn't attacking the rim. Everytime he did it Quinn would say, "He won't miss those in a couple years." He's not missing them now. Also, it looks like Billy Keller has really helped his free throw shooting. Do you guys realize he's shooting over 75% since the beginning of December and he's 8 for 8 in February? Also, they showed a stat last night on FSN that he's actually 4th in rookie scoring per 48 minutes.

- I don't mind seeing Jack play SG, but if O'Brien's going to be the coach here next year, and we're not going to move Dunleavy, letting him walk might not be a bad idea. It's starting to look like O'Brien's going to roll with a Ford/Diener PG rotation. Jack never played PG last night. If that's the case, we're going to have a packed SG rotation that's going to force us into a lot of small ball to use our best players. I don't know if that's a great idea. Granger at PF against Thaddeus Young is fine, Granger at PF against Elton Brand is not.

- I second Seth's post about Rush. One thing I've really liked about the past 2 or 3 game threads is that I will come on to praise Rush and see that Seth's beat me too it with better stats to boot. 'Quis may be our best defender when he's healthy, but that only happens about 40% of the time. The other 60% Rush is the best defender on the roster.

All in all, a great win. While giving up all hope for the playoffs has been good for my psyche, games like this make think there's still hope.

OakMoses
02-18-2009, 11:32 AM
i didn't watch the game. what happened? is there a video or can someone tell me?

Danny was dribbling the ball up the floor. Andre Miller bumped him very hard in the chest with a raised elbow. Danny careened across the floor and then got up and ran at Miller. He was restrained but kept screaming at Miller and got himself a technical.

I'm in the "I don't like this" camp. I used to play rugby, and our coach always told us that if a guy gave you a cheap shot, you take it and wait. They'll be a chance for you to return the favor. I don't mind guys getting up in each other's business on the court, but I really don't like seeing Danny sprint across the floor at Miller. It raises the threat level way too far.

OakMoses
02-18-2009, 11:36 AM
One thing I forgot, I love to see Murphy doing more than just shooting 3's. His midrange jumper was great last night and he's been driving more the last few games. He's an incredibly tough cover when he's willing to use his entire offensive game. Also, Quinn mentioned that Troy posted up guys in college. Is this true? I never watched him play at Notre Dame.

Brad8888
02-18-2009, 11:43 AM
The more that Danny reacts to both the opposing players and the officials, the more rough, borderline dirty play he will have to endure on a nightly basis. His reactions will be seen by opposing teams as a weakness, and a way to slow him down both offensively and defensively.

The officials will probably develop a dislike for this attitude quite quickly, especially with the residual effects of our former posse of players who had a high propensity to have more interest in jawing with officials than actually playing the game. The officials will very likely reverse their recent trend of giving Danny a little occasional benefit of the doubt due to his rising status in the league as a result of not wanting to deal with a player who, in their opinion, complains all the time.

Likeability coupled with his athleticism and skills got Danny to the level he has reached. I would hate to see his upside limited by his current tendency to overreact to rough play and what he feels to be bad officiating.

Speed
02-18-2009, 11:52 AM
The more that Danny reacts to both the opposing players and the officials, the more rough, borderline dirty play he will have to endure on a nightly basis. His reactions will be seen by opposing teams as a weakness, and a way to slow him down both offensively and defensively.

The officials will probably develop a dislike for this attitude quite quickly, especially with the residual effects of our former posse of players who had a high propensity to have more interest in jawing with officials than actually playing the game. The officials will very likely reverse their recent trend of giving Danny a little occasional benefit of the doubt due to his rising status in the league as a result of not wanting to deal with a player who, in their opinion, complains all the time.

Likeability coupled with his athleticism and skills got Danny to the level he has reached. I would hate to see his upside limited by his current tendency to overreact to rough play and what he feels to be bad officiating.

Word

xtacy
02-18-2009, 12:04 PM
Danny was dribbling the ball up the floor. Andre Miller bumped him very hard in the chest with a raised elbow. Danny careened across the floor and then got up and ran at Miller. He was restrained but kept screaming at Miller and got himself a technical.

I'm in the "I don't like this" camp. I used to play rugby, and our coach always told us that if a guy gave you a cheap shot, you take it and wait. They'll be a chance for you to return the favor. I don't mind guys getting up in each other's business on the court, but I really don't like seeing Danny sprint across the floor at Miller. It raises the threat level way too far.

thanks


The more that Danny reacts to both the opposing players and the officials, the more rough, borderline dirty play he will have to endure on a nightly basis. His reactions will be seen by opposing teams as a weakness, and a way to slow him down both offensively and defensively.

The officials will probably develop a dislike for this attitude quite quickly, especially with the residual effects of our former posse of players who had a high propensity to have more interest in jawing with officials than actually playing the game. The officials will very likely reverse their recent trend of giving Danny a little occasional benefit of the doubt due to his rising status in the league as a result of not wanting to deal with a player who, in their opinion, complains all the time.

Likeability coupled with his athleticism and skills got Danny to the level he has reached. I would hate to see his upside limited by his current tendency to overreact to rough play and what he feels to be bad officiating.

agreed.

BPump33
02-18-2009, 12:06 PM
The more that Danny reacts to both the opposing players and the officials, the more rough, borderline dirty play he will have to endure on a nightly basis. His reactions will be seen by opposing teams as a weakness, and a way to slow him down both offensively and defensively.

The officials will probably develop a dislike for this attitude quite quickly, especially with the residual effects of our former posse of players who had a high propensity to have more interest in jawing with officials than actually playing the game. The officials will very likely reverse their recent trend of giving Danny a little occasional benefit of the doubt due to his rising status in the league as a result of not wanting to deal with a player who, in their opinion, complains all the time.

Likeability coupled with his athleticism and skills got Danny to the level he has reached. I would hate to see his upside limited by his current tendency to overreact to rough play and what he feels to be bad officiating.


I'm not sure it will be looked as a "weakness" because I think Danny stepped his game up a notch after he took the shoulder from Miller. For the most part though I agree with this post.

I think it's one thing to let the official know that you are displeased, because then he/she is more likely to give you the beneift of the doubt the next time around. It's a completely different thing to stand there and berate them, because this is only going to p*ss them off and cause them to dislike you. Hopefully Danny is able to cool down a little before it gets to that point.

I also completely agree with your point about Danny's likeability/athleticism getting him to where he is. I think Danny is looking for respectability to go along with his likeability and whining to the official is probably not the best way to go about that. Just my opinion.

trey
02-18-2009, 01:34 PM
It was pretty obvious that miller was mad about something and gave granger a pretty cheap shot... I dunno how some of you watched that and thought it was just a little unintentional foul?

Granger definitely should not have reacted like that, maybe the refs would have gotten miller for something more than just a foul if danny hadn't reacted in that manner, but it's very hard to hold back when someone gives you a shot like that.

Kemo
02-18-2009, 01:48 PM
also, how do you know that Miller wasn't in Danny's ear all night? and then doing what he did ..?

Only people that know were on the court that night ..

I don't see this being a problem with DG ..

Sometimes there are situations where you HAVE to get in another players face and let them KNOW you are NOT gonna put up with that *****.. I think that is what Danny done...

BRushWithDeath
02-18-2009, 02:33 PM
It was a foul. It was an intentional foul to stop the break. Maybe a little harder than it needed to be. That's all. It wasn't malicious. Danny just completely overreacted. And that is something that hasn't been uncommon for him. I was a huge Danny fan but these shows of fake toughness are getting old. Fast.

Trader Joe
02-18-2009, 02:36 PM
It was a foul. It was an intentional foul to stop the break. Maybe a little harder than it needed to be. That's all. It wasn't malicious. Danny just completely overreacted. And that is something that hasn't been uncommon for him. I was a huge Danny fan but these shows of fake toughness are getting old. Fast.

Teeth knocked out back in game 50 seconds later? Fake toughness.

Playing on a bone bruise right under your knee for going on a month? Fake toughness.

Anyone that thinks Danny is "fake tough" is a moron. Sorry. The dude is tough.

I've about had it up to my head in complaints about Danny.

count55
02-18-2009, 02:38 PM
Teeth knocked out back in game 50 seconds later? Fake toughness.

Playing on a bone bruise right under your knee for going on a month? Fake toughness.

Anyone that thinks Danny is "fake tough" is a moron. Sorry. The dude is tough.

I've about had it up to my head in complaints about Danny.

Danny isn't fake tough...he's the real deal. However, his reaction to Andre Miller wasn't real tough.

BRushWithDeath
02-18-2009, 02:38 PM
Teeth knocked out back in game 50 seconds later? Fake toughness.

Playing on a bone bruise right under your knee for going on a month? Fake toughness.


These two incidents are real. What he did last night was fake.

BRushWithDeath
02-18-2009, 02:39 PM
Danny isn't fake tough...he's the real deal. However, his reaction to Andre Miller wasn't real tough.

Beat me to it.

count55
02-18-2009, 02:42 PM
Danny isn't fake tough...he's the real deal. However, his reaction to Andre Miller wasn't real tough.

Let me clarify...I don't think it reflects badly, long term, on Danny. I just think it was a heat of the moment thing that wasn't necessary. I watched the replay over and over, and it looked to me like neither the shoulder or elbow (in fact, the elbow was almost non-existent, more of a pushing off with his forearm) got to Danny's face. To me, it was a moderately hard foul to stop the break, but didn't particularly look designed to hurt or injure anyone.

As an isolated incident, I don't get Danny's reaction. However, I don't know if the game was getting chippy otherwise, and I don't know if there's a history between the teams or with Miller.

WetBob
02-18-2009, 02:52 PM
Teeth knocked out back in game 50 seconds later? Fake toughness.

Playing on a bone bruise right under your knee for going on a month? Fake toughness.

Anyone that thinks Danny is "fake tough" is a moron. Sorry. The dude is tough.

I've about had it up to my head in complaints about Danny.

You've had enough of the complaints about the best player on a bad team? So much so that when he commits an egregious overreaction to a basketball play it should be completely ignored?

Danny has acted like the spoiled kid in little league who thinks he should be treated differently then the rest, but so many of you are too busy staring through you blue shaded lenses to notice.

His actions have not been consistent with the image the team is trying to put out. In fact, they've been more consistent with the actions that KG has been somewhat vilified in the national media for.

Trader Joe
02-18-2009, 02:58 PM
Oh yeah, that Kevin Garnett, he's so vilified... :lol: Are some of you even watching the same league?

WetBob
02-18-2009, 03:07 PM
Oh yeah, that Kevin Garnett, he's so vilified... :lol: Are some of you even watching the same league?

How many links do you want? Try googling Kevin Garnett Bully and it will save me some time.

http://sports.popcrunch.com/kevin-garnett-is-a-bull/

http://www.yardbarker.com/nba/articles/Teams_say_they_are_tired_of_Garnetts_bullying/389565

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/97395-kevin-garnett-the-big-ticket-becomes-the-big-bully/page/2

LOL.

Since86
02-18-2009, 03:39 PM
All those that you just listed are blogs, not the national media which you said he was being vilified in. So when links of the national media are brought forth then you can stop. IMHO.

I didn't see the incident last night, but being around long enough and playing at different levels of competition, there are times when you give a guy a wink after a hard foul and keep on trucking, and then there are times when you standup and let it be known you aren't going to be pushed around.

Like I said, I didn't see last night's incident, so I dunno which one it falls in, but to act like you should always just turn the other cheek isn't in step with reality.

From what it sounds like, Danny stepped up to Miller and stepped up his game. People won't try it too many more times if he continually raises he level he's playing at after things like that occur.

I find it quite ironic that someone with an avatar of Reggie is complaining about a player being mouthy/chippy. That whole '90's Pacer era with the Davis brothers and Reggie (along with the rest of the league) seemed like every game was filled with little dustups between players.

WetBob
02-18-2009, 05:03 PM
All those that you just listed are blogs, not the national media which you said he was being vilified in. So when links of the national media are brought forth then you can stop. IMHO.

You are worrying about the wrong thing.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/news/story?id=3869175

It has been talked about a ton this season. Seriously, google it if you are so worried about the sources.

Trader Joe
02-18-2009, 06:15 PM
How many links do you want? Try googling Kevin Garnett Bully and it will save me some time.

http://sports.popcrunch.com/kevin-garnett-is-a-bull/

http://www.yardbarker.com/nba/articles/Teams_say_they_are_tired_of_Garnetts_bullying/389565

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/97395-kevin-garnett-the-big-ticket-becomes-the-big-bully/page/2

LOL.

Three blogs? You come on here telling me about the national media vilifying Kevin Garnett and you give me three blogs? :lol: Awesome.

Trader Joe
02-18-2009, 06:19 PM
You are worrying about the wrong thing.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/news/story?id=3869175

It has been talked about a ton this season. Seriously, google it if you are so worried about the sources.


Same group was probably calling KG a wuss when he didn't retaliate after being punched in the face against the Kings in a second round playoff series.

That Broussard article finished like this...

And if you want to shut him up, you'll just have to take him, and the Celtics, down.Yeah, sounds like he is really being vilified...

NashvilleKat
02-18-2009, 06:36 PM
I said this a few weeks ago, and I'll say it again "I don't like Granger's chippy attitude." I believe it's possibly getting to be a problem.

Yes, he was fouled numerous times with no calls, but he's going to have to keep his temper under control. Other teams are seeing it and are trying to expose it by fouling him. He needs to stay in the game, and quit getting frustrated.

If I was an opposing coach, I'd have a player get Danny worked up to get his head out of the game and possibly tossed from the game. As far as I'm concerned, he's going too far to prove his macho image of not being soft nor taking hard fouls.

I think he's fighting or personal and team respect...much like Reggie was doing back in the 90s when he was labeled as a trash talker. He was always going up against Micheal Jordan and the Bulls or the Knicks, and he was fighting to be recognized as an equal with the big guys in the big markets. He wants the game played right and called according to the rules and he is fighting for respect among his peers and the officials.

Trader Joe
02-18-2009, 06:38 PM
Why wasn't everyone complaining when Danny was staring down Lebron? It's just ridiculous. Either you want this guy to show competitive fire or you don't. And don't tell me he should pick and choose his battles...The great players, the truly great players, are intense and competitive from the tip to the end of the game regardless of who they are being challenged by.

duke dynamite
02-18-2009, 06:48 PM
Last night I called into the call-in show. I mentioned this, and well I wasn't against him going after the other player, I am against him arguing calls with the refs all night.

Today on Kravitz and Eddie, I was mentioned. Well, more or less my concern. I think that everyone feels that people think that Danny is going to turn into a thug. I don't want to twist this into something that it isn't.

I do feel that he can get over the calls, and focus more on the play.

That is my only concern.

BRushWithDeath
02-18-2009, 06:49 PM
It seemed Mark Boyle was fully in the overreaction camp last night.