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MillerTime
01-26-2009, 09:51 AM
By Mike Wells
IndyStar.com
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2009901260351

Pacers' president Larry Bird and coach Jim O'Brien recently sent out packets about forward Danny Granger to Eastern Conference coaches in hopes that they'll put him on the All-Star team.

"We wanted them to have information so that they would really look hard at what Danny has meant to the Indiana Pacers, along with every pertinent statistical category of things he has done this year," O'Brien said. "We're trying to do everything possible to make sure he gets the recognition he deserves."

Granger is fourth in the league in scoring. Voting for the reserves will be announced this Thursday.

2minutes twowa
01-26-2009, 10:02 AM
It would be an absolute outrage if he wasn't chosen. Danny is the kind of guy that not only the Pacers, but the league should be publicizing.

duke dynamite
01-26-2009, 10:29 AM
Good luck, Danny!

BRushWithDeath
01-26-2009, 10:46 AM
It would be an absolute outrage if he wasn't chosen. Danny is the kind of guy that not only the Pacers, but the league should be publicizing.

I think he should be an All-Star but it would be far from an absolute outrage if he didn't make it. He's undoubtedly on the fence. If individual stats were all that mattered you'd be correct. If you are an NBA coach are you going to value Granger with his scoring more than say Paul Pierce, Rashard Lewis, or Hedo Turkoglu? Sure their numbers aren't as dramatic as Granger's but they are having outstanding years on winning teams. That's important. He's not as clear cut an All-Star as most on this board thinks. I'd pick him though.

avoidingtheclowns
01-26-2009, 11:16 AM
where's danny's GPS? show the love larry.



Minnesota Timberwolves go to bat to help star center Al Jefferson's chances to play in NBA All-Star Game

They want coaches to see Jefferson's all-star credentials

<!--byline-->By Don Seeholzer, dseeholzer@pioneerpress.com
<!--date-->Updated: 01/22/2009 11:56:25 PM CST


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Al Jefferson has been putting up all-star numbers for the Timberwolves, but even he needs an assist now and then.

Enter the team's public relations department, which has mounted a campaign to get the Wolves' star center selected to the NBA All-Star Game on Feb. 15 in Phoenix.

The Wolves on Wednesday sent an overnight package to each of the other 14 Western Conference coaches who will vote on reserves for the game.

Included in "Big Al's Road Trip'' is a foldout map featuring some of his notable performances and a head-to-head comparison with four Western Conference centers: Houston's Yao Ming, Phoenix's Shaquille O'Neal, Golden State's Andris Biedrins and the Los Angeles Lakers' Andrew Bynum.

Last but not least, each coach received a GPS device with a highlight video of Jefferson, who said he's grateful for the help. "It means a lot," he said. "Hopefully, it will convince these coaches to get me in."

http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_11533097?source=rss (http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_11533097?source=rss)

WetBob
01-26-2009, 11:35 AM
It would be an absolute outrage if he wasn't chosen. Danny is the kind of guy that not only the Pacers, but the league should be publicizing.

An outrage?

Good God, it wouldn't even be surprising. As BRushWithDeath said, Hedo, Lewis and Pierce all have an extremely strong case.

themayhem87
01-26-2009, 11:43 AM
I'm biased but I hate the argument that he's not an all-star because his team isn't winning. Yeah the team may not be winning but for someone who's putting up Danny's numbers he's trying to carry the team by himself, and he doesn't have the help that say Turkoglu does. Danny doesn't have unreal talent around him like a Dwight Howard or Rashard Lewis so yeah it's going to be harder for us to win. I think its just as impressive b/c the whole world knows Danny's going to be getting the ball the entire game and he's still dropping these unbelivable stats on teams

Pacersfan46
01-26-2009, 11:48 AM
An outrage?

Good God, it wouldn't even be surprising. As BRushWithDeath said, Hedo, Lewis and Pierce all have an extremely strong case.

If Hedo makes it with his shooting percentage barely avoiding being in the 30's, I'll vomit. That simple.

Averaging 5.7 shots made per game on 14.1 attempts, for 40.4%. That's ugly.

-- Steve --

BRushWithDeath
01-26-2009, 12:49 PM
If Hedo makes it with his shooting percentage barely avoiding being in the 30's, I'll vomit. That simple.

Averaging 5.7 shots made per game on 14.1 attempts, for 40.4%. That's ugly.

-- Steve --


Turkoglu is shooting 40.4%. Granger is shooting 44.3%. I wouldn't vomit over less than 4% but let's not throw stones.


Let's look at the numbers. There will likely be 3 reserve forwards taken to go along with LeBron and KG.

The players with a case include:

Danny Granger:

26.1 pts, 44% FG, 5.1 reb, 3.4 ast, 1.0 stl, 1.4 blk - Pacers W/L - 17-27

Chris Bosh:

23.3 pts, 50% FG, 9.7 reb, 2.5 ast, 0.8 stl, 0.9 blk - Raptors W/L - 18-28

Rashard Lewis:

19.2 pts, 45% FG, 6.0 reb, 2.6 ast, 1.3 stl, 0.6 blk - Magic W/L - 33-10

Paul Pierce:

19.1 pts, 44% FG, 5.8 reb, 3.7 ast, 1.1 stl, 0.3 blk - Celtics W/L - 37-9

Hedo Turkoglu:

17.3 pts, 40% FG, 5.2 reb, 4.8 ast, 1.0 stl, 0.3 blk - Magic W/L - 33-10

Tayshaun Prince:

14.5 pts, 45% FG, 6.8 reb, 2.9 ast, 0.5 stl, 0.7 blk - Pistons W/L - 24-19

I'm not going to list Antawn Jamison or Caron Butler but they have All-Star caliber numbers as well. There team is worse than the Pacers though so they surely wouldn't get in over Granger.

Granger clearly has the best individual numbers of those with a case for All-Star candidacy. Whether those numbers are good enough to overtake the players who are having good individual seasons on winning teams is to be seen.

Granger's best chance to be an All-Star is if Chris Bosh is voted onto the team as the reserve center. There is no second center in the East worthy of a spot. Paul Pierce is nearly a lock to make the team in my mind. The coaches are going to vote him in for sure. I could see the vote being split between Rashard Lewis and Hedo Turkoglu. That will help Granger. I think Danny will get the last forward spot. But I can completely understand the argument that he shouldn't get it.

2minutes twowa
01-26-2009, 01:03 PM
I'm biased but I hate the argument that he's not an all-star because his team isn't winning. Yeah the team may not be winning but for someone who's putting up Danny's numbers he's trying to carry the team by himself, and he doesn't have the help that say Turkoglu does. Danny doesn't have unreal talent around him like a Dwight Howard or Rashard Lewis so yeah it's going to be harder for us to win. I think its just as impressive b/c the whole world knows Danny's going to be getting the ball the entire game and he's still dropping these unbelivable stats on teams

I would take record into consideration if they were god awful, but the Pacers are a very competetive team that has beaten some of the best teams in the league. If they had only won 5 games and been blown out 20 times, then I think you have to consider it a factor.

2minutes twowa
01-26-2009, 01:08 PM
Turkoglu is shooting 40.4%. Granger is shooting 44.3%. I wouldn't vomit over less than 4% but let's not throw stones.


Let's look at the numbers. There will likely be 3 reserve forwards taken to go along with LeBron and KG.

The players with a case include:

Danny Granger:

26.1 pts, 44% FG, 5.1 reb, 3.4 ast, 1.0 stl, 1.4 blk - Pacers W/L - 17-27

Chris Bosh:

23.3 pts, 50% FG, 9.7 reb, 2.5 ast, 0.8 stl, 0.9 blk - Raptors W/L - 18-28

Rashard Lewis:

19.2 pts, 45% FG, 6.0 reb, 2.6 ast, 1.3 stl, 0.6 blk - Magic W/L - 33-10

Paul Pierce:

19.1 pts, 44% FG, 5.8 reb, 3.7 ast, 1.1 stl, 0.3 blk - Celtics W/L - 37-9

Hedo Turkoglu:

17.3 pts, 40% FG, 5.2 reb, 4.8 ast, 1.0 stl, 0.3 blk - Magic W/L - 33-10

Tayshaun Prince:

14.5 pts, 45% FG, 6.8 reb, 2.9 ast, 0.5 stl, 0.7 blk - Pistons W/L - 24-19

I'm not going to list Antawn Jamison or Caron Butler but they have All-Star caliber numbers as well. There team is worse than the Pacers though so they surely wouldn't get in over Granger.

Granger clearly has the best individual numbers of those with a case for All-Star candidacy. Whether those numbers are good enough to overtake the players who are having good individual seasons on winning teams is to be seen.

Granger's best chance to be an All-Star is if Chris Bosh is voted onto the team as the reserve center. There is no second center in the East worthy of a spot. Paul Pierce is nearly a lock to make the team in my mind. The coaches are going to vote him in for sure. I could see the vote being split between Rashard Lewis and Hedo Turkoglu. That will help Granger. I think Danny will get the last forward spot. But I can completely understand the argument that he shouldn't get it.

Thank you for proving my point. Looking at those numbers, there's no way Turkoglu, Lewis or Prince get the nod over Danny. To me Tukoglu and Lewis are role players on teams with superstars. Prince is a solid player on a good team, but 14.5 and 6.8 are not all-star numbers. If they take 3 forwards, he's in, period.

I agree that Bosh should take the place of a 2nd center.

BRushWithDeath
01-26-2009, 01:38 PM
Thank you for proving my point. Looking at those numbers, there's no way Turkoglu, Lewis or Prince get the nod over Danny. To me Tukoglu and Lewis are role players on teams with superstars. Prince is a solid player on a good team, but 14.5 and 6.8 are not all-star numbers. If they take 3 forwards, he's in, period.

I agree that Bosh should take the place of a 2nd center.


The point is that you are neglecting the most important stat in the eyes of coaches.

37-9
33-10
24-19

That matters. Unfortunately, so does 17-27.

Pacersfan46
01-26-2009, 02:24 PM
Turkoglu is shooting 40.4%. Granger is shooting 44.3%. I wouldn't vomit over less than 4% but let's not throw stones.

I wouldn't if Turk was taking mostly 3 pont shots skewing his FG% towards that number. However the fact is Granger takes more 3 point shots than Turk does, and hits a higher percentage without an elite front court player taking the pressure off him like Turk has.

Turk belongs NOWHERE near an All-Star game. To a lesser extent I feel the same about Lewis. Lewis is clearly better than Turk though.

-- Steve --

2minutes twowa
01-26-2009, 02:58 PM
The point is that you are neglecting the most important stat in the eyes of coaches.

37-9
33-10
24-19

That matters. Unfortunately, so does 17-27.

I could buy the wins argument if the Pacers were 5-39 and getting blown out on a nightly basis. They are 10 games under .500, 3-4 games out of a playoff spot, and have played toe to toe in almost every game.

duke dynamite
01-26-2009, 02:59 PM
NBA.com thinks he should be a reserve...

http://www.nba.com/2009/allstar2009/01/22/east.reserves.0122/index.html



Danny Granger, Indiana (15-27)
26.2 PPG, 5.1 RPG, 3.4 APG
If there's a rule stating that teams that are 12 games below .500 don't deserve All-Stars, Granger is the exception. Granger ranks fourth in the NBA in scoring, fifth in the East in efficiency and has shown a knack for hitting big shots. His numbers have increased in each of his four years in the league.

Hicks
01-26-2009, 03:10 PM
The point is that you are neglecting the most important stat in the eyes of coaches.

37-9
33-10
24-19

That matters. Unfortunately, so does 17-27.

Give Danny the teammates those guys have. See what the record he carries then is.

BRushWithDeath
01-26-2009, 03:33 PM
Give Danny the teammates those guys have. See what the record he carries then is.

I don't disagree. I'm just saying people shouldn't be shocked and appalled if he doesn't make it.

jhondog28
01-26-2009, 04:49 PM
Give Danny the teammates those guys have. See what the record he carries then is.

BINGO

I promise you that if granger was not playing in any of those games when the Pacers did not have Dunleavy they could possibly have 1 or 2 wins at the most and i am not even close to kidding.

xtacy
01-26-2009, 04:54 PM
The point is that you are neglecting the most important stat in the eyes of coaches.

37-9
33-10
24-19

That matters. Unfortunately, so does 17-27.


Give Danny the teammates those guys have. See what the record he carries then is.

good point. being an all-star would have nothing to do with the team's record but sadly it has.


I wouldn't if Turk was taking mostly 3 pont shots skewing his FG% towards that number. However the fact is Granger takes more 3 point shots than Turk does, and hits a higher percentage without an elite front court player taking the pressure off him like Turk has.

Turk belongs NOWHERE near an All-Star game. To a lesser extent I feel the same about Lewis. Lewis is clearly better than Turk though.

-- Steve --

couldn't agree more. if even i'm saying that it means he doesn't deserve that.

granger deserves to be an all-star way more than pierce,hedo and prince. i hope coaches think the same way.

GrangerRanger
01-26-2009, 06:33 PM
The Center

Chris Bosh, Toronto (16-28)
23.3 PPG, 9.9 RPG, 2.6 APG

Bosh isn't really a center, but he's the only true big that deserves real consideration. And the coaches elected him as a center last year. The Raptors have been disappointing, to say the least, but it hasn't been Bosh's fault. He's averaging career highs in both points and efficiency.

Tragic Shaft: Andrew Bogut (MIL)
Maybe Next Year: Al Horford (ATL)
Team Record Hurt Him: Troy Murphy (IND)
The Next Three Out: Now we're really reaching.

TROY getting some love. :D

BlueNGold
01-26-2009, 07:00 PM
TROY getting some love. :D

I find it ironic that they said this about Troy while we have a better record WITHOUT him.

How Troy impacts a team is too complicated for most people to put together. Let's just say it's not a good impact. If Troy is an all-star, we have at least 3 all-star players on this team. Maybe 5 or 6.

duke dynamite
01-26-2009, 07:09 PM
I find it ironic that they said this about Troy while we have a better record WITHOUT him.

How Troy impacts a team is too complicated for most people to put together. Let's just say it's not a good impact. If Troy is an all-star, we have at least 3 all-star players on this team. Maybe 5 or 6.
I will beg to differ. He was only out a short while, which is not enough to determine the overall effect he has on this team.

Murphy contributes well for this team, and he catches a lot of flack. He plays hard, and may not be what you would call a conventional big man, he still delivers night after night. His rebounding is not hurting this team by any means.

Midcoasted
01-26-2009, 07:30 PM
I find it ironic that they said this about Troy while we have a better record WITHOUT him.

How Troy impacts a team is too complicated for most people to put together. Let's just say it's not a good impact. If Troy is an all-star, we have at least 3 all-star players on this team. Maybe 5 or 6.

He's having a career year. He played great last night. He's is learning from Jeff how to rebound and defend. He's turning into a hard nosed 6'11 big man who can shoot better than Foster and Croshere combined. Put him next to a Howard and it would create matchup nightmares. He's a natural PF. Let's hope Roy's growth curve turns into dominance in the future.

El Pacero
01-26-2009, 08:39 PM
I could buy the wins argument if the Pacers were 5-39 and getting blown out on a nightly basis. They are 10 games under .500, 3-4 games out of a playoff spot, and have played toe to toe in almost every game.

And they have had the toughest schedule in the entire league, and their No 2 starter out almost half the season. Coaches know our record does not reflect the potential of our team.

WetBob
01-27-2009, 10:38 AM
I will beg to differ. He was only out a short while, which is not enough to determine the overall effect he has on this team.

Murphy contributes well for this team, and he catches a lot of flack. He plays hard, and may not be what you would call a conventional big man, he still delivers night after night. His rebounding is not hurting this team by any means.

It's been enlightening watching the last couple non-televised games from the opposing team's perspective with League Pass. It just goes to show you (and I think a lot of you people who continue to push for Granger's all-star case need to remember) that numbers do not come close to telling the whole story.

Opposing announcers LOVE Troy Murphy!! Love him. Why? They get the numbers sheet and see a double double average and assume he's one of our best players. He isn't. I don't think that is a surprise to most people who actually spend time watching this team. Sure Murphy's rebounding isn't hurting the team, but his numbers are seriously inflated (like Granger's I would argue) due to the way we play and more importantly, his defense is beyond terrible.

I don't think that Granger should be an all-star as a good player putting up huge numbers on a horrid team, but the idea that Murphy should even be considered is nothing but laughable to me.

BKK
01-27-2009, 11:41 AM
Danny is definitely getting some love in major media. As Dukie stated he would be the choice of NBA.COM and I also read this morning that several ESPN writers would also chose him. All of them pick Bosh as the reserve Center. I'm gonna try to find the links and post them.

Roaming Gnome
01-27-2009, 12:09 PM
It's been enlightening watching the last couple non-televised games from the opposing team's perspective with League Pass. It just goes to show you (and I think a lot of you people who continue to push for Granger's all-star case need to remember) that numbers do not come close to telling the whole story.

Opposing announcers LOVE Troy Murphy!! Love him. Why? They get the numbers sheet and see a double double average and assume he's one of our best players. He isn't. I don't think that is a surprise to most people who actually spend time watching this team. Sure Murphy's rebounding isn't hurting the team, but his numbers are seriously inflated (like Granger's I would argue) due to the way we play and more importantly, his defense is beyond terrible.

I don't think that Granger should be an all-star as a good player putting up huge numbers on a horrid team, but the idea that Murphy should even be considered is nothing but laughable to me.

:haterade:

People will point to the Celtics' game and the broken teeth issue and what not. But does that really make him tough? ... to me that was one instance. More an anomaly then the rule. At Memphis, he leaves the game with what is called a concussion and doesn't return. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that a "concussion" that mild is nothing more then a headache. If he was tough, would he have ever left the floor at all?

Major Cold
01-27-2009, 01:44 PM
I love Granger and all. But I want the team aspect to remain a priority with the front office. As long as touting does not turn into campaigning. I have had enough of that.