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View Full Version : POST GAME THREAD "PACERS ARE BAD"



vnzla81
01-20-2009, 10:27 PM
The San Antonio girls are hot, is all I have to say about this game..........................:confused:

Slick Pinkham
01-20-2009, 10:34 PM
maybe the Spurs really play good team defense when properly motivated, especially at home.

Every win does not mean you are great and every loss doesn't mean you suck. Sometimes you are outplayed, don't play your best, are out-talented and have little margin for error, etc.

vnzla81
01-20-2009, 10:36 PM
maybe the Spurs really play good team defense when properly motivated, especially at home.

Every win does not mean you are great and every loss doesn't mean you suck. Sometimes you are outplayed, don't play your best, are out-talented and have little margin for error, etc.

:confused:

BRushWithDeath
01-20-2009, 10:40 PM
I'll take this lineup:

Diener
Rush
Granger
McRoberts
Hibbert

with Dunleavy first off the bench.

And I will beat JOB with this lineup:

Jack
Dunleavy
Granger
Murphy
Foster

with Rasho first off the bench.

Conflict
01-20-2009, 10:40 PM
A couple of points from the game:

- Murphy just jacks up 3's, and misses. Only time he went inside the offensive threepoint line was when he backed down Parker and took a fade away, arggh!

- TJ looked bad when going to the basket. TO prone.

- I feel sorry for Granger for having such bad teammates.

- Last couple of minutes Roy looked good, but he remains to stiff.

- Pacers were killed on rebounds.

- This loss was ugly, I do prefer close losses.

vnzla81
01-20-2009, 10:42 PM
I think that the pacers need to look for a point guard in the draft, the way TJ and Jack are playing, don't think either one of them are the point guards of the future, JOB needs to go and the rookies need to play more.

SycamoreKen
01-20-2009, 10:55 PM
That was the first game that I have seen the Pacers play this year, and I really feel bad for you guys that have watched that numerous times. Granger might have been the only guy on our side that would have a shot at cracking the Spurs rotation based on tonight.

I have not sen a team come down and just jack up shot at random like they were doing tinight in a long time. Is that par for the course? No screens, no movement, nothing. When Rasho is shooting 3 trips in a row something is really wrong. I think he shot more times in this game than he would get in 5 when he was with the Spurs.

I know the loss last night took a lot out of the team, but it seemed like they were not even organized on the offensive end. I know the Spurs aremore talented, but they didn't even make them work hard on d. At least I got to see a game and am looing forward to seeing the one in Indy to see if any improvement has taken place.

Oh, one addition, I still hate the yellow jerseys.

count55
01-20-2009, 11:03 PM
I'll take this lineup:

Diener
Rush
Granger
McRoberts
Hibbert

with Dunleavy first off the bench.

And I will beat JOB with this lineup:

Jack
Dunleavy
Granger
Murphy
Foster

with Rasho first off the bench.

No, you won't.

duke dynamite
01-20-2009, 11:06 PM
The Spurs are just really good.

Bball
01-20-2009, 11:06 PM
I think that the pacers need to look for a point guard in the draft, the way TJ and Jack are playing, don't think either one of them are the point guards of the future, JOB needs to go and the rookies need to play more.

The Pacers need to look for a coach.

There are too many problems in the way this team plays that is IMO a product of the system to blame the players entirely. You see the same mistakes over and over.

Too often people base a player's abilities on what he's being asked to do or what the system pigeon holes him into being. These players could play better defense... if it was demanded and a system developed that took advantage of the players' abilities. By the same token, we could value each possession more on offense, if it was demanded.

We're playing the way Jim "the O stands for Offense" O'Brien wants. It's not going to work. It's not working now. It's not working ever. Even if we upgraded talent, it might work better, but it isn't playoff basketball. It's a gimmick at best. Until we have a coach that demands more of the defense and gives the players a system they can maximize in, we lose.

I'm sure they'll continue to play hard as long as we play this wide open offense... at least until the idea of moral victories wears thin and the 'fun' of playing offense is replaced by the absolute bottomless pit of losing continually. It may be fun to play this Chinese Fire Drill offense, but it's more fun to win.

Losing to the Spurs isn't a shame. But the way this team just keeps losing by making the same mistakes over and over again is telling.

If I see another player wide open for a 3 with a Pacer scrambling to get out on him I think I will need a new television. This happens too much not to be a problem with the system.

I do not want to see Jim "the O stands for Offense" O'Brien back next season. I want a coach that demands defense. O'Brien obviosly doesn't. The players can worry about scoring when they learn to stop the other team from scoring.

In 49 states it's just basketball... but this is Indiana and we demand defense here.

SycamoreKen
01-20-2009, 11:13 PM
Actually Duke, they played just o.k. tonight. If they had been on their game early they would have blown it out earlier. They gave up a lot of open looks, unfotunately the Pacers missed. Did i say that this is the worst I've seen a team play against SA where it wasn't the Spurs that forced the issue? I agree with Bball.

Spirit
01-20-2009, 11:13 PM
The Spurs are just really good.Agreed but the Pacers are bad too.

WetBob
01-20-2009, 11:15 PM
Agreed but the Pacers are bad too.

Exactly. Really bad.

RamBo_Lamar
01-20-2009, 11:15 PM
POST GAME THREAD "PACERS ARE BAD"No need to "YELL" about it...

Since some nights they are also good.

I'm having a hard time understanding why inconsistency at this stage of the team's
development still comes as such a surprise to some.


:rolleyes:

BRushWithDeath
01-20-2009, 11:18 PM
No need to "YELL" about it...

Since some nights they are also good.

I'm having a hard time understanding why inconsistency at this stage of the team's
development still comes as such a surprise to some.


:rolleyes:

Maybe because this team has such little development.

Quis
01-20-2009, 11:24 PM
Hibbert looked pretty good. He actually played defense in the post. Absolutely shocking. He's got a nice offensive game too, whether facing the basket or deep in the post. I also like that he always seems poised and ready to make the crisp pass if necessary. Why the hell isn't this guy getting more minutes while that sloth Rasho is?

dryley
01-20-2009, 11:33 PM
Hibbert looked pretty good. He actually played defense in the post. Absolutely shocking. He's got a nice offensive game too, whether facing the basket or deep in the post. I also like that he always seems poised and ready to make the crisp pass if necessary. Why the hell isn't this guy getting more minutes while that sloth Rasho is?

Not that I disagree about Hibbert, but Rasho was our leading assist man tonite in a whopping 15 minutes of play. Is there something wrong with this picture? I didn't actually see the game, but that seems like a slight knock on our PG's.

andreialta
01-20-2009, 11:36 PM
SPURS defense and rebounding were on point tonight! one of the reasons they're still number 2 in the west even having players down for quite some time! but just an awful night for the pacers. no rhythm what so ever. and it looks like TJ ford is trying too much out there.

PaceBalls
01-20-2009, 11:53 PM
We saw a very well prepared and coached team with quality players who are very comfortable in their system. And we saw how very very far away we are from that level of competence. I really hope things get better by next year, where the players have a defense and offense they feel confident about and can execute well.

Sometimes I wonder if the Pacers would even be ranked in the top 25 in college ball. /sigh

BRushWithDeath
01-20-2009, 11:57 PM
No, you won't.

Perhaps. But my biggest problem is that the young guys just aren't that much worse than the vets. We're losing either way. We might as well try to develop the future.

Pacers#1Fan
01-21-2009, 12:19 AM
Perhaps. But my biggest problem is that the young guys just aren't that much worse than the vets. We're losing either way. We might as well try to develop the future.

Agree

The only upside to this game was the that younger guys got off the pine.

Will Galen
01-21-2009, 12:27 AM
Anybody else see Granger with an icepack on his right knee. He checked into the game after I saw that, but does anybody that goes to games remember seeing him do that before? I'm wondering if that is recent.

BRushWithDeath
01-21-2009, 12:30 AM
Anybody else see Granger with an icepack on his right knee. He checked into the game after I saw that, but does anybody that goes to games remember seeing him do that before? I'm wondering if that is recent.

I go to all the games and haven't noticed it. But I wouldn't be too worried.

imawhat
01-21-2009, 12:39 AM
I've seen Granger ice during the game multiple times.

Well, Graham has certainly come back to earth on defense.

larry
01-21-2009, 01:06 AM
That was the first game that I have seen the Pacers play this year, and I really feel bad for you guys that have watched that numerous times. Granger might have been the only guy on our side that would have a shot at cracking the Spurs rotation based on tonight.

I have not sen a team come down and just jack up shot at random like they were doing tinight in a long time. Is that par for the course? No screens, no movement, nothing. When Rasho is shooting 3 trips in a row something is really wrong. I think he shot more times in this game than he would get in 5 when he was with the Spurs.

I know the loss last night took a lot out of the team, but it seemed like they were not even organized on the offensive end. I know the Spurs aremore talented, but they didn't even make them work hard on d. At least I got to see a game and am looing forward to seeing the one in Indy to see if any improvement has taken place.

Oh, one addition, I still hate the yellow jerseys.

That was the worst game I seen them play all year except for maybe against the Cavs. This game was not a good showing for you.

NapTonius Monk
01-21-2009, 01:14 AM
We really need Jamaal Tinsley's oncourt skillset. I didn't say we need Jamaal Tinsley back, before you light me up for this statement. What I mean by that is I wish we had a point guard who's chief talent was orchestrating an offense.

MyFavMartin
01-21-2009, 02:11 AM
Missed the game. Any comment on Daniels' health or Rush's minutes?

deekay85
01-21-2009, 04:49 AM
I think RUsh played quite okay. 5p,2r,1stl,1blk. Maybe too many minutes for him in this game (26min).
I dont understand why Daniels play, if he cant go forward to finish the game. again just 6 minutes, and thats it. he has to sit out if he got helath issues! he cannot help us in any way right now.
great 4 quarter play for Hibbert. the game was already done though! i really wanted to see hibbert matched up agains duncan, cause neither foster nor rasho had a chance against TD.
i really looking forward to this home game against the the rockets.

Defense was not existent 2night!

xtacy
01-21-2009, 05:52 AM
The Pacers need to look for a coach.

There are too many problems in the way this team plays that is IMO a product of the system to blame the players entirely. You see the same mistakes over and over.

We're playing the way Jim "the O stands for Offense" O'Brien wants. It's not going to work. It's not working now. It's not working ever. Even if we upgraded talent, it might work better, but it isn't playoff basketball. It's a gimmick at best. Until we have a coach that demands more of the defense and gives the players a system they can maximize in, we lose.

Losing to the Spurs isn't a shame. But the way this team just keeps losing by making the same mistakes over and over again is telling.

I do not want to see Jim "the O stands for Offense" O'Brien back next season. I want a coach that demands defense. O'Brien obviosly doesn't. The players can worry about scoring when they learn to stop the other team from scoring.

In 49 states it's just basketball... but this is Indiana and we demand defense here.

%100 percent agreed.

i don't think anymore that we will make the playoffs and they are not letting our rookies play to develop so what the hell are they doing right now? if wasting a season is the goal here they are doing a great job.

Conflict
01-21-2009, 06:42 AM
I also saw that Hibbert looked good, but in the couple of minutes he got he also has 3 fouls. If Hibbert want to see more court time he has to quit making dumb fouls, like the moving screen for example. If you make a foul, make it hard. No easy scores.

count55
01-21-2009, 07:14 AM
Perhaps. But my biggest problem is that the young guys just aren't that much worse than the vets. We're losing either way. We might as well try to develop the future.

Oh, I wasn't talking about the relative quality of players.


;):p

Justin Tyme
01-21-2009, 08:13 AM
Anybody else see Granger with an icepack on his right knee. He checked into the game after I saw that, but does anybody that goes to games remember seeing him do that before? I'm wondering if that is recent.


At the Hornets game, I saw what looked like half the team on the bench with ice on their knees, including Granger.


Could it be O'Brien's system is wearing on the knees already?

Unclebuck
01-21-2009, 09:09 AM
That was the first game that I have seen the Pacers play this year, and I really feel bad for you guys that have watched that numerous times. Granger might have been the only guy on our side that would have a shot at cracking the Spurs rotation based on tonight.

I have not sen a team come down and just jack up shot at random like they were doing tinight in a long time. Is that par for the course? No screens, no movement, nothing. When Rasho is shooting 3 trips in a row something is really wrong. I think he shot more times in this game than he would get in 5 when he was with the Spurs.

I know the loss last night took a lot out of the team, but it seemed like they were not even organized on the offensive end. I know the Spurs aremore talented, but they didn't even make them work hard on d. At least I got to see a game and am looing forward to seeing the one in Indy to see if any improvement has taken place.

Oh, one addition, I still hate the yellow jerseys.

Actualkly I think that is only the 3rd time we have watched that. The one game ayt Cleveland, game at Denver and last night - other than those 3 the pacers have played pretty well and hard every night.

Spurs are probably the worst matchup for the Pacers. They are so disciplined, so experienced - they just cause us tons of trouble.

Bball - the pacers offense is really working rather well. It isn't my favorite style - but everyone else hates my favorite style. Pacers are rather potent offensively and very difficult to defend

BRushWithDeath
01-21-2009, 10:33 AM
Oh, I wasn't talking about the relative quality of players.


;):p

Understandable.

Bball
01-21-2009, 11:42 AM
Bball - the pacers offense is really working rather well. It isn't my favorite style - but everyone else hates my favorite style. Pacers are rather potent offensively and very difficult to defend


The Pacers are proving they can score and play in a free-wheeling style. I'm not sure how hard it really is to defend though. Maybe it takes teams a bit to catch on or maybe they just save their energy until the second half where they'll have Pacer fatigue as a 6th defender, but it seems defenses stiffen in the 2nd half against the Pacers. Has any of our statistical analysis crew got the numbers to see if my perception is true or not?

Also, I don't think our offense is really making teams work hard on defense. They are constantly fighting thru picks or getting leveled by them chasing our shooters around. They aren't spending lots of time on defense either since many times we're putting up a quick shot in the shot clock.

And I still say our offense hurts our defense. The total lack of structure in the offense and frantic pace takes away from the players' ability and willingness to play defense. Mix in a bad defensive system for this team and you have losses.

I have one defensive possession frozen in my mind from last night. San Antonio is bringing the ball up the court and there are the Pacers waiting on defense.... packed inside the 3 point arc. So the dribbler walks it up to the arc and nails a 3 while our defense is dug in inside the arc. This isn't a case where the dribbler penetrated and kicked it out for a 3 because the defense sagged off someone, instead the guy just walked it up the court and nailed a 3 over our entrenched defense inside the arc. By gosh, we didn't allow him to penetrate so I guess O'Brien should be happy with that great defense. Since I don't get the feeling Jim Offense'Brien was nearly as pissed about that as I was, I guess he condones it.

If he's not going to work on developing the bench during this down season then we might as well fire him now because he's done all the good he can and is in fact at risk of hurting things now. I was in favor of letting him stick around for the season and let these guys continue to develop confidence in their offensive abilities... as long as he also got the bench some time. But since he's not going to do that, I'd just rather let one of the assistants take over with a mandate to play the young guys.

Naptown_Seth
01-21-2009, 12:11 PM
I'll take this lineup:

Diener
Rush
Granger
McRoberts
Hibbert

with Dunleavy first off the bench.

And I will beat JOB with this lineup:

Jack
Dunleavy
Granger
Murphy
Foster

with Rasho first off the bench.
I agree.

How many more times do Rush, McRoberts or Hibbert have to come in and make great plays before this clicks?

Example - Rush is in covering his man in left corner. Rush cheats to lane enough to jump in and force the kickout on lane penetration off PnR. Rasho was the big beat on this, giving the lane up till Rush saved him.

Worse is that Rasho could not even recover to his man in the right corner and instead it was Rush who closed out on him for the BLOCKED SHOT. Spurs retain possession, ball goes back out, Rush recovers to ball, finds his man in the left corner, again protects the drive and forces a kickout to his man, closes him out and gets another block/air ball miss.

Sorry JOB, but give me a freaking break. The dude is going out of your system because SOMEONE HAS TO in order to stop the layups off horrible PnR.

The only thing I saw Rush do poorly was play a few picks/screens the wrong way, but that won't last with more PT.


And then Hibbert comes in late and looks just as good as he has for the last month or so.

For me it's not about growth, its about the fact that the vets have plenty of issues too and at least some of the kids have the potential to really improve as they learn the game.


Love to see Dun return healthy, but last night reminded me of his problems too. His man would run back on him on every miss. Gino and Mason both got easy scores doing this. So you get an empty trip AND you give up 2 easy. I know people love his offense and for good reason, but he and Rasho were monster problems on defense last night.

The slow movement in PnR and the inability to close it out was also dreadful.

Speed
01-21-2009, 12:17 PM
I didn't want to start a new thread, but did anyone notice Foster's mustache and how it's morphing him into Freddie Mercury?

I guess M D Jr is trying to get them all to grow scumtaches, hilarious!!!

Naptown_Seth
01-21-2009, 12:20 PM
I've seen Granger ice during the game multiple times.

Well, Graham has certainly come back to earth on defense.
Is that what we are calling it?
;)

I used to really be a "play that dude" fan of his, but as time wore on I realize he was Flip Murray, except instead of handles/lane scoring his thing is jumpers/super leaping dunks. I mean Flip was a star on scoring at times, really almost unstoppable, but the rest of his game stunk. This is Graham. So the good catches your eye, but there is a reason he's not becoming a 40 mpg guy.

I like him in spots off the bench, I can see him punch things up at times, but compared to Rush being limited by inconsistancy, give me a break JOB. Rush is just learning, but he's pretty consistant in his approach and defensive awareness.

BRushWithDeath
01-21-2009, 12:21 PM
I didn't want to start a new thread, but did anyone notice Foster's mustache and how it's morphing him into Freddie Mercury?

I guess M D Jr is trying to get them all to grow scumtaches, hilarious!!!

I'm going to assume there is money involved. I'm guessing Foster and Dunleavy are quick outs. Their wives will interfere in the contest.

Slick Pinkham
01-21-2009, 12:29 PM
:confused:

There seems to be 2 common rationalizations for a loss:
1) we suck
2) the refs screwed us

#2 is almost always a copout, unless Larry Johnson was involved
#1 implies that all hope is lost and we will never beat anyone unless things get blown up.

I'm saying that sometimes the opponent deserves some credit for playing well, being better prepared, and having more talent. That's a viable 3rd option. Possibly they also caught us on a bad night. It happens. When we play like we have in some of our games against better opponents (Boston, LA) we have shown the ability to compete with anyone. We seem to lack the maturity to play that way with any consistency, though, especially on the road and with physical teams.

BRushWithDeath
01-21-2009, 12:31 PM
When you lose a lot more than you win, you suck. And we lose a lot more than we win.