PDA

View Full Version : Halfway through the season. 15-26.



Anthem
01-20-2009, 08:39 AM
Hurts to say it like that.

I don't have anything special to add, but I figured someone should note the halfway point.

Shade
01-20-2009, 09:00 AM
On pace to win 30 games.

Ouch.

Justin Tyme
01-20-2009, 09:11 AM
Things will change little until Bird and JO'B change the style of playing run n gun with little "D". They hold the key to change. Even with a full healthy roster back, little will change. Any grandiose ideas they had at the being of the season of making the playoffs has been lost. Without changing the system, that is obviously flawed, where do they go next year? For their sake, they had best hope the turnstiles and Simons agree with their system.

Unclebuck
01-20-2009, 09:13 AM
I would be shocked (barring major injuries) if they don't win 20 games in the second half of the season - which would give them 35 wins which is about right for this team.

I am not upset, it doesn't really hurt - this team is what it is -

Anthem
01-20-2009, 09:26 AM
I would be shocked (barring major injuries) if they don't win 20 games in the second half of the season - which would give them 35 wins which is about right for this team.
I was looking for the preseason prediction thtread but can't find it. Can anyone link/bump?

duke dynamite
01-20-2009, 09:30 AM
I feel okay. I'm not upset...yet.

Alabama-Redneck
01-20-2009, 09:48 AM
Things will change little until Bird and JO'B change the style of playing run n gun with little "D". They hold the key to change. Even with a full healthy roster back, little will change. Any grandiose ideas they had at the being of the season of making the playoffs has been lost. Without changing the system, that is obviously flawed, where do they go next year? For their sake, they had best hope the turnstiles and Simons agree with their system.



Opinions vary !!

:cool:

nerveghost
01-20-2009, 09:51 AM
unfortunate...but if there is any team that deserves some nba draft karma, its the pacers. hopefully we can luck out like the Bulls and Spurs.

Shade
01-20-2009, 09:53 AM
I would be shocked (barring major injuries) if they don't win 20 games in the second half of the season - which would give them 35 wins which is about right for this team.

I am not upset, it doesn't really hurt - this team is what it is -

It'll hurt if/when we finish 9th in the East again.

How are we supposed to get any better with average draft picks and no playoff experience every year?

Shade
01-20-2009, 09:54 AM
unfortunate...but if there is any team that deserves some nba draft karma, its the pacers. hopefully we can luck out like the Bulls and Spurs.

Yeah, approximately 24 years of draft karma.

maragin
01-20-2009, 10:09 AM
I would be shocked (barring major injuries) if they don't win 20 games in the second half of the season - which would give them 35 wins which is about right for this team.

I am not upset, it doesn't really hurt - this team is what it is -

Vegas had us at 35.5 wins for the season.

Unclebuck
01-20-2009, 10:24 AM
I was looking for the preseason prediction thtread but can't find it. Can anyone link/bump?

Here it is

http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/showthread.php?t=41942

vnzla81
01-20-2009, 10:25 AM
It'll hurt if/when we finish 9th in the East again.

How are we supposed to get any better with average draft picks and no playoff experience every year?

that is been my question for the last 2 years

Speed
01-20-2009, 10:38 AM
Well, you have the whole team now, mostly, they have been almost there on almost every night. I still think they could really make a push to make the playoffs. They seem to get a little better every week.

Two nice wins against Detroit and Toronto really are pretty big, imho.

Also, I'll mention again about those last 14 games and how they are really set up to make a run. I think they'll go 10-4 those last 14, if healthy. That will be a big push for a playoff spot, if they do.

I just look at where they were at to start the season and where they are now and it's a pretty big difference.

Biggest positive changes.

-Granger is your go to guy, no question. He's a top player in the league and worth every penny they are paying him. DG has been such a bright spot for this team; I shudder to think where they would be if he wasn't the gift.

-The offense is fun to watch and effective. (really the whole NBA is much much more pleasant to watch, not because of the increased scoring, but the team play, period.)

-Guys play unselfishly, you really get the feeling that they just want to win and the culture is clearly changed (even though Murphy can be a rebound vulture at times :) )

-Dunleavy plays and makes others around him better without effecting Grangers scoring, so far.

-I'm pleased with the youngsters for the future. I know many are down on them, but I really feel like all 3 have shown enough that they have a real baseline to improve on for next year and seasons after.

-You know Nesto isn't more than what you thought. This is important because you can basically let him go without much regret, unless he'll play for what he is worth.

-Marquis is a little more difficult, but I still think you let him drop off as well, since his team option is more than what he's worth.

-You know what the teams needs and it is what you thought it was. A low post defensive player with some semblence of a low post game would be nice.

-Murphy is nice to have around, he's really playing like I had hoped when they traded for him, now with the need for a low post guy it sounds like he needs to go, not at all. He's a unique type player who really has had a nice year.

The Negatives so far.

-TJ isn't the answer that I thought he would be, he's inconsistent and struggles to maintain his health with that size frame, imho.

-Jarret isn't the answer he's hardnosed and been a nice defensive player, but not a stopper and a detriment more than a positive at the end of games.

-Roy will never be a dominant defensive center (I knew this, but I had hoped for more in the future).

-Beating a dead horse-the defense scheme sucks, I think we have enough evidence to say it that clearly.



Overall, this first half of the season has been a really nice step towards getting better and finally turning the page on some of the darkest years in Pacers history. If you look at where they have came in the last 2 years, it's really impressive. If you just look at the record so far, it looks bad (by itself), but you really have to look at the whole picture.

There are no easy fixes out there or there rarely is.

For those of you who want to scrap the whole thing after every loss, I feel ya. But those are the type of things that cause problems, not fix them.

Unclebuck
01-20-2009, 10:42 AM
Nice Speed - I agree with you - unlike most others, I think the first half of the season has been fun to watch and I have seen a lot of growth team-wise and player-wise. Being in all these close games is really good for this team

Shade
01-20-2009, 10:56 AM
Here it is

http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/showthread.php?t=41942

Wow. Looks like I may have been wildly optimistic with my prediction of 36 wins.

Infinite MAN_force
01-20-2009, 10:57 AM
Well, you have the whole team now, mostly, they have been almost there on almost every night. I still think they could really make a push to make the playoffs. They seem to get a little better every week.

Two nice wins against Detroit and Toronto really are pretty big, imho.

Also, I'll mention again about those last 14 games and how they are really set up to make a run. I think they'll go 10-4 those last 14, if healthy. That will be a big push for a playoff spot, if they do.

I just look at where they were at to start the season and where they are now and it's a pretty big difference.

Biggest positive changes.

-Granger is your go to guy, no question. He's a top player in the league and worth every penny they are paying him. DG has been such a bright spot for this team; I shudder to think where they would be if he wasn't the gift.

-The offense is fun to watch and effective. (really the whole NBA is much much more pleasant to watch, not because of the increased scoring, but the team play, period.)

-Guys play unselfishly, you really get the feeling that they just want to win and the culture is clearly changed (even though Murphy can be a rebound vulture at times :) )

-Dunleavy plays and makes others around him better without effecting Grangers scoring, so far.

-I'm pleased with the youngsters for the future. I know many are down on them, but I really feel like all 3 have shown enough that they have a real baseline to improve on for next year and seasons after.

-You know Nesto isn't more than what you thought. This is important because you can basically let him go without much regret, unless he'll play for what he is worth.

-Marquis is a little more difficult, but I still think you let him drop off as well, since his team option is more than what he's worth.

-You know what the teams needs and it is what you thought it was. A low post defensive player with some semblence of a low post game would be nice.

-Murphy is nice to have around, he's really playing like I had hoped when they traded for him, now with the need for a low post guy it sounds like he needs to go, not at all. He's a unique type player who really has had a nice year.

The Negatives so far.

-TJ isn't the answer that I thought he would be, he's inconsistent and struggles to maintain his health with that size frame, imho.

-Jarret isn't the answer he's hardnosed and been a nice defensive player, but not a stopper and a detriment more than a positive at the end of games.

-Roy will never be a dominant defensive center (I knew this, but I had hoped for more in the future).

-Beating a dead horse-the defense scheme sucks, I think we have enough evidence to say it that clearly.



Overall, this first half of the season has been a really nice step towards getting better and finally turning the page on some of the darkest years in Pacers history. If you look at where they have came in the last 2 years, it's really impressive. If you just look at the record so far, it looks bad (by itself), but you really have to look at the whole picture.

There are no easy fixes out there or there rarely is.

For those of you who want to scrap the whole thing after every loss, I feel ya. But those are the type of things that cause problems, not fix them.

I agree with most of this. I'm still not quite sure what to think of TJ Ford. he has looked great at times but his inconsistency is concerning, and this nagging back injury is the kind of thing that seems to linger. I would like to see him get healthy.

I am fine with Jack as the backup but Obrien WAY overuses him, as far as Im concerned he should not be there late in games... he has a tendency to go 1 on 5 and throw up a horrendous shot or rediculous pass/turnover at the absolute worst times.

If we make the playoffs it will be because the PG play picks up in quality. If that does not happen, as much as people harp about a PF, I would be looking at Ty Lawson in this draft... and we would probably be in range to get him...

I think this team wins 35-41 games, and those extra 5 or 6 will be the key to making the playoffs if it is at all possible. 35 is probably most realistic.

pacergod2
01-20-2009, 11:15 AM
We are 5-9 in games decided by three points or less. Which is about right considering our 15-26 record. That is one third of our games decided by three points or less. That is great basketball to watch. Even if we have come out on the losing end of too many close ones.

I am hopeful that we can win 21 of our last 41, meaning that we are over .500 to end the year. I just want this team to define who are our core players over the rest of the season and put a priority on them progressing.

BillS
01-20-2009, 11:35 AM
I think, as hard as it is for those die-hard fans who frequent the Digest to understand, the most important thing about this season is that the city perceives the Pacers as a hard-nosed team full of guys who work at the game and conduct themselves properly. Yeah, they aren't that good, but they don't let it stop them.

That doesn't immediately translate into attendance figures without adding wins, but it absolutely has changed the visibility (and, one would hope, the subsequent sale) of Pacers merchandise. It increases the perception of team support on the street. It builds fans who are beginning to see that the team is "fun to watch" and who are willing to show up once or twice.

Like it or not, this season is accomplishing exactly what TPTB want - to work their way back into the hearts of the city. I have to say that, while the crowds may be smaller than desired, they are by far more into the game by the end of the 4th quarter than they have been in a long time.

Playing the rookies lots of minutes would be somewhat counterproductive for that goal. If we were losing games by 15 instead of 2-3, would there be so much buzz about the team being "fun to watch"?

Add to that the fact that I haven't seen anyone in this year's draft who is a "must have" for the Pacers, and I think we're going in the right direction.

Put the best product for TODAY on the floor, look at our options at the deadline, make changes over the summer. Meanwhile, have fun and get the community involved.

Peter_sixtyftsixin
01-20-2009, 11:39 AM
I think, as hard as it is for those die-hard fans who frequent the Digest to understand, the most important thing about this season is that the city perceives the Pacers as a hard-nosed team full of guys who work at the game and conduct themselves properly. Yeah, they aren't that good, but they don't let it stop them.

That doesn't immediately translate into attendance figures without adding wins, but it absolutely has changed the visibility (and, one would hope, the subsequent sale) of Pacers merchandise. It increases the perception of team support on the street. It builds fans who are beginning to see that the team is "fun to watch" and who are willing to show up once or twice.

Like it or not, this season is accomplishing exactly what TPTB want - to work their way back into the hearts of the city. I have to say that, while the crowds may be smaller than desired, they are by far more into the game by the end of the 4th quarter than they have been in a long time.

Playing the rookies lots of minutes would be somewhat counterproductive for that goal. If we were losing games by 15 instead of 2-3, would there be so much buzz about the team being "fun to watch"?

Add to that the fact that I haven't seen anyone in this year's draft who is a "must have" for the Pacers, and I think we're going in the right direction.

Put the best product for TODAY on the floor, look at our options at the deadline, make changes over the summer. Meanwhile, have fun and get the community involved.

Gold. Well said.

naptownmenace
01-20-2009, 11:47 AM
We are 5-9 in games decided by three points or less. Which is about right considering our 15-26 record. That is one third of our games decided by three points or less. That is great basketball to watch. Even if we have come out on the losing end of too many close ones.

I am hopeful that we can win 21 of our last 41, meaning that we are over .500 to end the year. I just want this team to define who are our core players over the rest of the season and put a priority on them progressing.

I'm not even worried about the close games the Pacers have lost to the good teams in the league. The disappointing thing about the 15-26 record are the losses to sub-.500 teams.

We've lost close games to the Bucks, Heat, Clippers, Warriors, Grizzlies, Bulls, and Raptors. If we had just won 5 of those games our record would be 20-21. That's the major flaw in this team, IMO. They are competitive but they don't play any better against the lesser teams in the league.

That worries me because in the last 41 games of this season they play 23 games against teams with sub-500 records. If they just take care of those teams they could end up with 38 wins by the end of the season. However, if they continue to play down to those teams of comparable talent, they could end up with less than 30 wins.

They have a good opportunity to really show what they are made of the rest of the season. It should be interesting.

xtacy
01-20-2009, 11:50 AM
We are 5-9 in games decided by three points or less. Which is about right considering our 15-26 record. That is one third of our games decided by three points or less. That is great basketball to watch. Even if we have come out on the losing end of too many close ones.

i disagree. seeing the team making stupid mistakes over and over again is nowhere near fun.

halfway in the season and the only thing that makes me happy is having granger. this run n gun basketball is worthless and i hope at least we get rid of JOB at the end of the season. it is obvious we won't be going anywhere with this mentality.

mike is good offensively but on defense he's like the rest of the team.

tj is ok when healthy but he's too fragile and inconsistent.

jack i don't even wanna talk about him.

there's only one 'i go out and shoot 3's' big guy in nba that i like and his name isn't murphy. he's a great rebounder but defense is the question.

quis and rasho won't be playing for us next year imo. i'm disappointed in rasho btw. i was expecting more from him.

foster well he's still on this team because he's foster. he takes away much more than he brings.

and the most depressing thing is we have two rookies that can't play even for a 15 win team like us and these guys are our future.

i thought that we have a bright future and i still do but not that bright anymore i guess.

beast23
01-20-2009, 01:49 PM
...I'm still not quite sure what to think of TJ Ford. he has looked great at times but his inconsistency is concerning, and this nagging back injury is the kind of thing that seems to linger. I would like to see him get healthy.

I am fine with Jack as the backup but Obrien WAY overuses him, as far as Im concerned he should not be there late in games... he has a tendency to go 1 on 5 and throw up a horrendous shot or rediculous pass/turnover at the absolute worst times.

If we make the playoffs it will be because the PG play picks up in quality.
I liked Speed's post as well.

I think you make a very good point regarding PG play. The biggest thing that I see is that our PGs probably try to force too much action and penetration in that last minute of play. Better decisions from our PGs would probably result in a few more wins.

TJ is inconsistent... sometimes his penetration works if he has a distinct quickness advantage over his opponent. But just as often, he (and Jack for that matter) find themselves trapped in the lane or on the baseline with nowhere to go. Even worse, Jack seems to get airborn without a plan. All of these problems seem to be even worse when we are in the last minute or two of play.

I agree with others that our defense sucks. We have problems with the defensive talent we have and we can't seem to get the important stops when we need them. Since we are one of the highest scoring teams, I conclude that it is our defense (or lack thereof) that is losing the close games for us.

Our talent level is not changing, so maybe we should mix up our defense a little to assure that all players are covered, at least over the last couple of minutes of games. This may expose us to mismatches, but at least all players will be covered. Since we are losing far more of the close games than we win, I don't see how mixing up our defensive schemes late in games can cause us to lose even more of the close games than we are already losing.

Anthem
01-20-2009, 01:58 PM
Here it is

http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/showthread.php?t=41942

Hey, good find. That's a very interesting read.

This is what I said, that I still think is realistic:


Wow. If we are above .500 at Christmas, I'll post youtube video of me eating my hat.

I expect us to be pretty rough until the ASB, with a late-season push for the playoffs (against tanking opponents) that gets us close to .500 by season's end.

Bball
01-20-2009, 02:05 PM
Hey, good find. That's a very interesting read.

This is what I said, that I still think is realistic:

Yeah but...
Was that with any thought to how many close games we'd lose and with a player sniffing on an All-Star appearance?

If it was... congratulations so far. If not (which I suspect is the case), then wouldn't you say there's a problem?

IMHO we've shown we are ahead of schedule in some aspects but have a critical flaw in others.

That flaw is of course Jim OBrien's reluctance or inability to emphasize defense 'first'... ;)

"Offense put the O in OBrien"
-Bball

Anthem
01-20-2009, 02:17 PM
Yeah but...
Was that with any thought to how many close games we'd lose and with a player sniffing on an All-Star appearance?
Nope, it wasn't. Unlike your SportsCenter generation that only cares about individual accolades, my desire is to see the PACERS do well as a group. The whole should be better than the sum of its parts. The true measure of a good player isn't all-star appearances but number of games won. :flirt:

In all honesty, I didn't expect Danny to be this good but I expected to have Dunleavy the whole season, so it probably averages out there. I expected our PG rotation to be better (I'm honestly not convinced that we'd be worse if Tinsley was starting and Ford was on IL). Foster's been what I expected, Murphy's been far better. Rasho's been worse. Dude is skilled but I'm shocked at how little gas he has left. Hibs is what I expected, Rush is underperforming (although I'm not nearly as down on his offense as some here are).

The "close games" thing actually undermines your point instead of reinforcing it. I expected us to get blown out far more often than we have. If we could just get a tiny bit better, we'd be winning a number of these close games.


If it was... congratulations so far. If not (which I suspect is the case), then wouldn't you say there's a problem?
Sure, but it's the same problem we had at the beginning of the year: a lack of talent at every position except SF (where we have Dunleavy and Granger), no post presence offensively or shot-blocking presence defensively, and a mess of a PG rotation. I expected us to struggle up through the ASB, even with Dunleavy. Without him? Fuhgetaboudit.

There's still time for us to put on a nice little run, especially if TPTB makes a move before the deadline. I'm not panicked yet.

Easy
01-20-2009, 02:20 PM
foster well he's still on this team because he's foster. he takes away much more than he brings.




Foster is a respected veteran & has earned his place in the fabric of Pacers' history but at this point he'd best serve the franchise by being part of a deal to a contender this year in order to alleviate more salary from the cap, acquire another cheap, young talent or future draft pick(s).

And I'd be happy for him to have a few more seasons to win a championship because it is not happening in Indy for at least 3 to 5 years.

Anthem
01-20-2009, 02:26 PM
Foster is a respected veteran & has earned his place in the fabric of Pacers' history but at this point he'd best serve the franchise by being part of a deal to a contender this year in order to alleviate more salary from the cap, acquire another cheap, young talent or future draft pick(s).
If we wanted to trade him we shouldn't have extended him. He'd be a much more attractive bargaining chip.

Giving him the extension was basically guaranteeing that he'd finish his career as a Pacer.

Easy
01-20-2009, 02:41 PM
If we wanted to trade him we shouldn't have extended him. He'd be a much more attractive bargaining chip.




I completely agree. However, there is likely still plenty of interest in him. In his ESPN chat today, Chad Ford affirms this. So, even though he was extended, the salary & years are not too damaging for a team challenging for a championship--especially for a team whose window of opportunity extends to another year or two after this season. The top contenders--Spurs, Celtics, Lakers, Cavs, Magic, Hornets--all seem to fit this criteria & Foster could definately contribute to any of those teams very effectively in short bursts of 10 to 20 minutes in the playoffs.

Now, if Larry doesn't want to move him for a leadership or whatever, then, well, that's that, but to not use him in a trade of some kind is not taking advantage of an assest that's value will continue to diminish from this time going forward.

Justin Tyme
01-20-2009, 03:27 PM
That flaw is of course Jim OBrien's reluctance or inability to emphasize defense 'first'... ;)

"Offense put the O in OBrien"
-Bball


Until he comes to grips his way isn't the ONLY way, or until Bird finally puts his foot down, nothing is going to change.

"There are none so blind as those who will not see!"

Refusal to admit his system is not right nor working, reminds me of our newly deposed leader..... O'Bush.

BPump33
01-20-2009, 03:31 PM
I completely agree. However, there is likely still plenty of interest in him. In his ESPN chat today, Chad Ford affirms this. So, even though he was extended, the salary & years are not too damaging for a team challenging for a championship--especially for a team whose window of opportunity extends to another year or two after this season. The top contenders--Spurs, Celtics, Lakers, Cavs, Magic, Hornets--all seem to fit this criteria & Foster could definately contribute to any of those teams very effectively in short bursts of 10 to 20 minutes in the playoffs.

Now, if Larry doesn't want to move him for a leadership or whatever, then, well, that's that, but to not use him in a trade of some kind is not taking advantage of an assest that's value will continue to diminish from this time going forward.

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=24639
Chad Ford

Mark, Orlando: Give me your take on the Pacers. Do they make a move before the deadline, continue to build with young players, or look to sign a big free agent in 2010?

Chad Ford: They are in a very good position. They have A LOT of assets. They have big expiring contracts like Rasho Nesterovic and Marquis Daniels. They have young players like Brandon Rush and Roy Hibbert. They have vets they would move like Mike Dunleavy, Jeff Foster and Jarrett Jack. They still have Jamaal Tinsley, a guard who, when healthy, is a legit starting point guard in the league. And they have a draft pick that looks like a Top 10 pick. Package those together in a number of ways and the Pacers could be big players at the trade deadline. Lots of interest around the league in Daniels and Foster. Lots of teams would love some cap relief. I think that a lot of the business in the league could pivot on what they do. Like I said they can facilitate just about any deal out there.

I know some people like Chad Ford and others don't, but it was worth the post I thought.

Edit: If there really is a lot of interest in Daniels, I wonder what we could possibly get. I also wonder how much more we will see him on the floor before the deadline if he has already proven his worth to other teams.

Justin Tyme
01-20-2009, 03:34 PM
[QUOTE=Easy;838133]Foster is a respected veteran & has earned his place in the fabric of Pacers' history but at this point he'd best serve the franchise by being part of a deal to a contender this year in order to alleviate more salary from the cap, acquire another cheap, young talent or future draft pick(s). QUOTE]


My exact sentiments.

Justin Tyme
01-20-2009, 03:40 PM
http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=24639
Chad Ford

Mark, Orlando: Give me your take on the Pacers. Do they make a move before the deadline, continue to build with young players, or look to sign a big free agent in 2010?

Chad Ford: They are in a very good position. They have A LOT of assets. They have big expiring contracts like Rasho Nesterovic and Marquis Daniels. They have young players like Brandon Rush and Roy Hibbert. They have vets they would move like Mike Dunleavy, Jeff Foster and Jarrett Jack. They still have Jamaal Tinsley, a guard who, when healthy, is a legit starting point guard in the league. And they have a draft pick that looks like a Top 10 pick. Package those together in a number of ways and the Pacers could be big players at the trade deadline. Lots of interest around the league in Daniels and Foster. Lots of teams would love some cap relief. I think that a lot of the business in the league could pivot on what they do. Like I said they can facilitate just about any deal out there.

I know some people like Chad Ford and others don't, but it was worth the post I thought.


I am surprised to see him mention the rookies Rush and Hibbert. As I've said b4, seeing Hibbert traded wouldn't bother me a bit.

Unclebuck
01-20-2009, 03:44 PM
Thanks USF - good find.

idioteque
01-20-2009, 03:53 PM
You do have to give Bird some credit in that, a year ago today, we were seen as a team with no trading assets whatsoever, and now we have quite a few.

Yes, I know trading assets don't necessarily equal wins, but this franchise has finally entered a sort of rebuilding mode when a year ago at this time, we were going nowhere fast.

beast23
01-20-2009, 04:13 PM
Foster is a respected veteran & has earned his place in the fabric of Pacers' history but at this point he'd best serve the franchise by being part of a deal to a contender this year in order to alleviate more salary from the cap, acquire another cheap, young talent or future draft pick(s).

And I'd be happy for him to have a few more seasons to win a championship because it is not happening in Indy for at least 3 to 5 years.

Because Foster is the only decent defender we have in the frontcourt, I can't agree at all with the statement that "he'd best serve the franchise by being part of a deal...".

If we were to deal Foster, I think we would need to package him with another player and that it would be absolutely imperative that we receive a frontcourt player in return with comparable or better defensive skills.

If that didn't happen, then I believe our defense next season would be even worse than what we are seeing this season.

I do agree that Foster is probably our most marketable asset that we would be willing to part with. But, I think such a trade would have to be met with caution, because it would require specialized assets in return.

BobbyMac
01-20-2009, 04:35 PM
Nice Speed - I agree with you - unlike most others, I think the first half of the season has been fun to watch and I have seen a lot of growth team-wise and player-wise. Being in all these close games is really good for this team

I agree....I believe that Hibbert and Rush will be valuable in the future and we have an opportunity to make a run the 2nd half of the season. The team has been fun to watch and the close games are exciting.

Midcoasted
01-20-2009, 05:15 PM
I'm not even worried about the close games the Pacers have lost to the good teams in the league. The disappointing thing about the 15-26 record are the losses to sub-.500 teams.

We've lost close games to the Bucks, Heat, Clippers, Warriors, Grizzlies, Bulls, and Raptors. If we had just won 5 of those games our record would be 20-21. That's the major flaw in this team, IMO. They are competitive but they don't play any better against the lesser teams in the league.

That worries me because in the last 41 games of this season they play 23 games against teams with sub-500 records. If they just take care of those teams they could end up with 38 wins by the end of the season. However, if they continue to play down to those teams of comparable talent, they could end up with less than 30 wins.

They have a good opportunity to really show what they are made of the rest of the season. It should be interesting.

For me it comes down to team chemistry and continuity.

Spirit
01-20-2009, 05:34 PM
We need to go back to being a half-court defensive orented team. I miss Carlisle.

Naptown_Seth
01-20-2009, 06:03 PM
Great post Speed. I feel basically the same.

Okay, they sucked me in with the early play and I'll admit that I backpeddled on my prediction after seeing them gel so well and play tough against good teams, but my original prediction looks pretty sharp...

30 wins.

No I'm not being negative. I will cherish each and every win and loss and I don't hate the team. There just isn't a lot of strong, vet talent on the team right now, that's not what they are about. This is about a restructure and rebuild into something better, and that starts at the foundation. 30 wins of that is something I can take.
They do seem like they are close to clicking into a solid run as the schedule gets easier...but then I've looked back at some of those recent duds against bad teams and wonder.

Alabama-Redneck
01-20-2009, 06:08 PM
We need to go back to being a half-court defensive orented team. I miss Carlisle.

In my opinion, it would be very difficult without defensive-minded players. The current system, regardless if people like it or not, is the best system for this group.

Yes, they can improve their defensive abilities but not my much.

:cool:

BlueNGold
01-20-2009, 06:12 PM
I'm not disappointed at all. This season has been exciting even if the team has lost a lot of games.

If Dunleavy were healthy and had been playing, this team would have at least 18 wins...maybe 20 right now, not 15...and that has been against solid competition. All things considered, we would be much closer to .500 by the end of the season if Dun had been playing and a 7 or 8 seed would be very possible.

Bball
01-20-2009, 06:33 PM
[QUOTE=Easy;838133]Foster is a respected veteran & has earned his place in the fabric of Pacers' history but at this point he'd best serve the franchise by being part of a deal to a contender this year in order to alleviate more salary from the cap, acquire another cheap, young talent or future draft pick(s). QUOTE]


My exact sentiments.

I'm there with you guys. I like Foster but I think he is way over-rated among many Pacer fans.

Now that we have a team of players that are hustling and putting forth a lot of effort, Foster's famed 'hustle' doesn't stand out like it once did. When you've got lazy players beside you you can really set yourself apart with some hustle.

And his defense is again IMHO over-rated. I just think it's been so long since we've had a true defensive presence inside that players like Foster and JO have caused us to lower the bar of what is good defense.