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View Full Version : Pistons losing momentum. Time for a Change?



duke dynamite
01-19-2009, 01:21 AM
Well, it seems like beating the Pistons wasn't a fluke. They really stink (compared to themselves before the trade).

Detroit lost to the New Orleans Hornets Sunday 91-85, with Allen Iverson receiving a technical foul after a 9-0 New Orleans run.

KStat has already made it clear as a fan, that Michael Curry isn't the guy who will lead them into the playoffs. Heck, I didn't even think he was that great of a player to become even a mediocre coach.

There could be many reasons that can explain the recent "slump" of our beloved rivals to the north. Could it be the loss of Billups? Is Iverson to blame?

What could it be?

This could be great news for the Pacers, as it could possibly eliminate a little bit of tough competition in the East.



...something for everyone to chew on for a bit.

Infinite MAN_force
01-19-2009, 01:32 AM
Tbird posted an interesting tidbit in his thread about getting to hang out in the press room at the detroit game that may shed some light on this...



Interestingly, as I stood around in the press room before the game, I heard the Detroit tv guys discussing how their team was having chemistry issues relating to Allen Iverson. Big surprise there! Scuttlebutt is that some of the players feel that Coach Curry is being way too accommadating to Iverson instead of laying down the law. I feel sorry for Curry and told the guys this, even though in reality what do they care what I think?

Anyway, apparently there are major issues with the starting lineup and playing time in Detroit, concerning Rodney Stuckey, Teyshaun Prince, Rip Hamilton, and Allen Iverson. Apparently it has been mandated by Detroit management (at least that was the gossip) that Rodney Stuckey must start. Coach Curry believes apparently that he needs Teyshaun Prince in the lineup defensively, so that leaves one spot open for Rip Hamilton and Allen Iverson. According the Detroit media guys, Curry had went to each of them and asked them about their willingness to come off the bench as a sixth man, and each of them ahd strongly refused....each of them badmouthing the other. So, the apparent solution for Detroit for a while is a compromise that at least keeps the peace but doesn't really help their team: Start all of them, play Rasheed Wallace at center, and go small. I was anxious ot see what would happen at the end of the game though, when that wasn't as easy to see....apparently Coach Curry thought against us it was wise to send Rip to the bench, a major reason why I think we actually won the game.

duke dynamite
01-19-2009, 01:41 AM
Tbird posted an interesting tidbit in his thread about getting to hang out in the press room at the detroit game that may shed some light on this...
I've already read that. I have a feeling of what is going on there, I just wanted to give everyone an opportunity to say something.

vnzla81
01-19-2009, 06:33 AM
like I said before Joe Dumars is not worry about winning this year, he trade Billups for the only reason that he knew his team was not going anywhere. He got in Iverson a big expiring, combined that with RW expiring and Detroit is going to have big money next year, they are going to go after Carlos Boozer and may try to get a center or resign RW, they already have 3 pieces on stuckey,Hamilton and prince, if they get boozer and resign RW they would come back next year with a better team.

2minutes twowa
01-19-2009, 08:39 AM
I've already read that. I have a feeling of what is going on there, I just wanted to give everyone an opportunity to say something.

Hey Duke, is your avatar a recent pic of Dun? Dude got some serious guns during the off season!

BlueNGold
01-19-2009, 08:44 AM
Tbird posted an interesting tidbit in his thread about getting to hang out in the press room at the detroit game that may shed some light on this...

I think many...no, most people...could have written this almost word for word PRIOR to the trade. How some people thought Allen Iverson would NOT hurt the Pistons, IDK. Does he not have a long history in the NBA? He's an entertaining player, but is the antithesis of what has made Detroit good for so long.

Maybe Curry is part of the problem, but you take Iverson out of the picture and I seriously believe the Pistons would be operating on all cylinders once again...even if the engine is getting a bit old.

Brad8888
01-19-2009, 09:11 AM
Isn't Iverson an expiring contract this season? If so, Dumars took a chance on at least some performance coming from AI while positioning Detroit for a possible major makeover when opportunity presents itself as other teams continue to dump salary before 2010-11.

From a purely basketball standpoint, the deal made no sense when it was announced, and has progressed pretty much as expected by just about everybody.

Anthem
01-19-2009, 09:23 AM
From a purely basketball standpoint, the deal made no sense when it was announced, and has progressed pretty much as expected by just about everybody.
Not Kstat. We should bump that thread next time he gets uppity.

travmil
01-19-2009, 09:29 AM
Not Kstat. We should bump that thread next time he gets uppity.

Next time? Hell you might as well make it a sticky then.

danman
01-19-2009, 09:58 AM
Well the AI-Rip combo experiment is looking like a failure. Rip's numbers are slightly down almost across the board from his usual stuff.

As for AI... people have predicted a short career for him (his size, physical play, and relying on quickness) for years -- and been wrong again and again. But at age 34, it looks like the naysayers have finally seen the shoe drop. AI has never had a reliable jumper, but his percentages this year are terrible. In the past, his points per attempt made up for it, as he'd average upwards to 10 free throws per game. Now he's down to about 6.

AI should retire after this year. His legacy is mixed, but overall it's strong. If he continues, it's not going to be pretty.

Justin Tyme
01-19-2009, 10:30 AM
Next time? Hell you might as well make it a sticky then.



ZING ZING :-o

Quis
01-19-2009, 10:50 AM
Iverson and Sheed are decrepit. Both look like they're ready to head to the retirement home.

Iverson is one of the worst starting SGs in the league, being brutal at both ends of the court. Like danman said, his shooting percentages are horrible and he's no longer getting to the free throw line a ton the way he use to.

Sheed is basically Troy Murphy sans rebounding. 12/7 on 42% shooting is embarrassing, and he's no longer a good defender (he was never anywhere near as good as advertised).

Rip and Prince are solid players, but neither are better than average starters considering how stacked the SG and SF positions are.

Basically; their key players are aged and their young talent is sub-par. They're a .500 team.

Kstat
01-19-2009, 11:25 AM
Rodney Stuckey: sub par, baby!

We have a new nickname for him! :laugh:


Sheed is basically Troy Murphy sans rebounding. 12/7 on 42% shooting is embarrassing, and he's no longer a good defender (he was never anywhere near as good as advertised).

:lmao: I forgot you've been banned so many times that you have actually been trolling this board since the 2004 season.

I remember you saying over and over again that Sheed and Ben Wallace was a BAD defensive frontcourt. Not just average, but BAD, and that the Pistons would never make the finals.

Good times, good times. Thanks for bringing that back up. I've lost track of how silly your Piston hate has made you look over the years.

Kstat
01-19-2009, 11:27 AM
From a purely basketball standpoint, the deal made no sense when it was announced, and has progressed pretty much as expected by just about everybody.

Since they have yet to try bringing either one off the bench, it's not fair at all to say its a failure.

Of course starting both guys failed miserably. I said that from the beginning.

Kstat
01-19-2009, 11:29 AM
Not Kstat. We should bump that thread next time he gets uppity.

Again, I never said Stuckey, Rip and Iverson could start together. The very idea is absurd.

I thought 2 of the 3 starting would make us formidable, and guess what: IT DID.

WE WON 7 STRAIGHT GAMES WITH AI AND STUCKEY, and THEN OUR IDIOT COACH CHANGED EVERYTHING BACK TO SMALL BALL, AND WE HAVENT WON SINCE.

...and this losing streak is somehow a product of the iverson trade? Was the 7-game winning streak also a product?

get your facts straight the next time you want to take a pot shot at me.

BlueNGold
01-19-2009, 11:35 AM
Since they have yet to try bringing either one off the bench, it's not fair at all to say its a failure.

Of course starting both guys failed miserably. I said that from the beginning.

Bringing Iverson off the bench to give Rip or Stuckey a blow is the way to go at this point. Otherwise, you get what you get....that is, a lot of bad basketball.

I seriously think the Pistons should have given Chauncey one more year.

Shade
01-19-2009, 11:35 AM
As has already been mentioned, this was a move made for the long-term benefit of the franchise, with a possibility of it not too heavily impacting the short-term. The window had closed on the current Pistons core.

Curry needs to go (he was never the right choice to begin with), and either Rip or AI needs to come off the bench. Personally, I believe that Iverson should ride the pine over Rip because odds are very high that he will not be a Piston after this season.

Right now, no matter how much I may disagree with some of JOB's decisions, I can always lay back and say "well, at least he's not Michael Curry." ;)

Kstat
01-19-2009, 11:36 AM
I
Maybe Curry is part of the problem, but you take Iverson out of the picture and I seriously believe the Pistons would be operating on all cylinders once again...even if the engine is getting a bit old.

Again, we were winning games just fine with Iverson when Rip was hurt. AI is not the problem.

Kstat
01-19-2009, 11:37 AM
Bringing Iverson off the bench to give Rip or Stuckey a blow is the way to go at this point. Otherwise, you get what you get....that is, a lot of bad basketball.

I seriously think the Pistons should have given Chauncey one more year.

One more year? For what?

He was our biggest underachiever in our last 3 playoff defeats. He got outplayed by players that shouldn't be holding his jock strap. Joe D got tired of it and decided to cut bait and move on with the cap space.

BlueNGold
01-19-2009, 11:48 AM
One more year? For what?

He was our biggest underachiever in our last 3 playoff defeats. He got outplayed by players that shouldn't be holding his jock strap. Joe D got tired of it and decided to cut bait and move on with the cap space.

Rondo did make him look like an old man. I suppose you may be right.

Although I think he still has enough left in the tank to get to the finish line, he apparently lost motivation...until he got to Denver. He is playing very good ball at the moment...far better than Stuckey.

diamonddave00
01-19-2009, 11:50 AM
Don't be so quick to write the hated Pistons off , so they don't make the finals. Dumars by dealing Billups to give Stuckey playing time is building for the future. Lets look at the big picture Iverson's 21.9 salary and Wallace's 13.7 mil come of at the end of this season.

The Piston payroll for next season is 33 mil giving Dumar cap space to sign younger free agents as he rebuilds replacing Iverson and Wallace.

He made a risky deal hoping to catch lightning in a bottle with Iverson , it appears to have failed but he's not stuck with AI after this season with years left on a contract.

Lets be honest the Pistons most likely won't be down very long. Dumar's it appears failed with this move but now has cap space to rebuild quickly.

Shade
01-19-2009, 11:51 AM
Rondo did make him look like an old man. I suppose you may be right.

Although I think he still has enough left in the tank to get to the finish line, he apparently lost motivation...until he got to Denver. He is playing very good ball at the moment...far better than Stuckey.

No.

Kstat
01-19-2009, 12:07 PM
Rondo did make him look like an old man. I suppose you may be right.



...and the year before that he got owned by a rookie 7th man that will likely never start for a team in his career.

The year before that, he got worked for a perfect game by a cripple that never played another meaningful game in his career.

Billups made his own bed.

vnzla81
01-19-2009, 12:20 PM
...and the year before that he got owned by a rookie 7th man that will likely never start for a team in his career.

The year before that, he got worked for a perfect game by a cripple that never played another meaningful game in his career.

Billups made his own bed.

Trust me the Pistons are going to be in a better place than the pacers in two years, they would have enough cap space to have a good team, that is the one thing I like about Dumars he is always planing for the future, he did not care to trade billups and his big contract because he knows he is getting big money next year and is going to be able to sign a free agent, he does not wait for players value to go down, that is why he is different from Larry and Donnie, the always stay with players for to long and when their values goes down they get crap for them(O'neal,Artest,tinsley, now Murphy, foster, Dunleavy)

Kstat
01-19-2009, 12:27 PM
well, the only marquee guy next year is boozer, who may not even be on the radar, depending on his knee.

Still, with a little maneuvering they could sign boozer and look for another max guy in 2010.

CableKC
01-19-2009, 12:33 PM
Rodney Stuckey: sub par, baby!

We have a new nickname for him! :laugh:
OT....Stuckey's nickname isn't as good as Maggette's nickname in Warriors land........they refer to him as "Bad Porn"........there's penetration and scoring, but are you really happy with what you're seeing?

:laugh:

vnzla81
01-19-2009, 12:34 PM
well, the only marquee guy next year is boozer, who may not even be on the radar, depending on his knee.

Still, with a little maneuvering they could sign boozer and look for another max guy in 2010.

another guy they could get is Lamar Odom, the Pacers don't have this flexibility, maybe in a year or two but at the moment the pistons are in a better situation.

xtacy
01-19-2009, 12:38 PM
OT....Stuckey's nickname isn't as good as Maggette's nickname in Warriors land........they refer to him as "Bad Porn"........there's penetration and scoring, but are you really happy with what you're seeing?

:laugh:

it makes me laugh everytime i hear it.

King Tuts Tomb
01-19-2009, 12:39 PM
WE WON 7 STRAIGHT GAMES WITH AI AND STUCKEY, and THEN OUR IDIOT COACH CHANGED EVERYTHING BACK TO SMALL BALL, AND WE HAVENT WON SINCE.

No, you won seven straight games because six of those teams are under .500. Now that you're playing better competition (NOH, Utah, an improving Pacers team), you're losing.

It's not rocket science. The Pistons are a slightly above average team that will lose in the first, or in the best case scenario second round, of the playoffs.

Shade
01-19-2009, 12:40 PM
No, you won seven straight games because six of those teams are under .500. Now that you're playing better competition (NOH, Utah, an improving Pacers team), you're losing.

It's not rocket science. The Pistons are a slightly above average team that will lose in the first, or in the best case scenario second round, of the playoffs.

Really? The Bobcats, Pacers, and Thunder are "better competition?" :huh:

Kstat
01-19-2009, 12:59 PM
Really? The Bobcats, Pacers, and Thunder are "better competition?" :huh:

yeah, I laughed my *** off at that comment too...

We beat below average opponents...like Orlando, the Cavs, the Lakers, the spurs....

other than that though, yeah we pretty much padded our record against sub-.500 teams. Good one.

Quis
01-19-2009, 02:37 PM
I remember you saying over and over again that Sheed and Ben Wallace was a BAD defensive frontcourt. Not just average, but BAD, and that the Pistons would never make the finals.

I don't recall ever saying such a thing. Me thinks you're making things up, per the usual.

Kstat
01-19-2009, 02:51 PM
I don't recall ever saying such a thing. Me thinks you're making things up, per the usual.

It was one of your old banned accounts. You have so many I lost track.

Quis
01-19-2009, 03:31 PM
It was one of your old banned accounts. You have so many I lost track.

You're either confused or lying. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it's the former. I may have criticized the Wallaces' offense (a sub-.450 jump shooter and a guy whose range is extends to nearly two feet) but never their defense. Big Ben actually lived up to his hype on the defensive end, as evidenced by the fact that Detroit's once great defense fell apart once he left.

BlueNGold
01-19-2009, 05:25 PM
No.

Yes, Stuckey is playing well. At 22, he is likely to get better too....and very soon will be clearly better than Billups.

I did go back and take a look at his production, and he is playing better than I thought. His numbers overall are in the same ballpark as Chauncey's. Although Chauncey is outscoring him, shooting better from three and dishing more assists, Stuckey has some numbers in his favor too.

All things considered, I would still take Billups in the playoffs if I had to pick a PG. The difference is probably not great either way you look at it...and Chauncey is already sliding.

shags
01-19-2009, 07:04 PM
Yes, Stuckey is playing well. At 22, he is likely to get better too....and very soon will be clearly better than Billups.

I did go back and take a look at his production, and he is playing better than I thought. His numbers overall are in the same ballpark as Chauncey's. Although Chauncey is outscoring him, shooting better from three and dishing more assists, Stuckey has some numbers in his favor too.

All things considered, I would still take Billups in the playoffs if I had to pick a PG. The difference is probably not great either way you look at it...and Chauncey is already sliding.

Stuckey's averaging 17.1 ppg and 5.5 apg as a starter. Not bad for a 2nd year guy.

But let's not get crazy. He's not as good right now as Chauncey Billups. You can't substitute for Billups experience or poise. The last 4 games were all winnable, and I think they would have won all of them with Billups. Stuckey doesn't have that experience yet. Hopefully, for the Pistons sake, he'll get there.

idioteque
01-19-2009, 09:36 PM
Question for Kstat or anyone else who follows the Pistons...

Is Rodney Stuckey as physical as Billups? I just remember watching Billups post up smaller PG's and harass them on defense with his size really well. Does Stuckey have these attributes? If so, he has a chance of being much better than Billups.

Kstat
01-19-2009, 09:45 PM
He doesn't have the polished post game bullups does, but he's every bit as phyiscal at the rim, if not more so.

Stuckey seeks out contact. He loves to hit and get hit.

BlueNGold
01-19-2009, 10:46 PM
He doesn't have the polished post game bullups does, but he's every bit as phyiscal at the rim, if not more so.

Stuckey seeks out contact. He loves to hit and get hit.

Does he have the same leadership attributes? Is he likely to be as savvy? Is he really capable of being as clutch? Is he well liked by his team mates? In addition to toughness and basketball skills, these are all things that made Billips one of the best PG's in the league. Those are big shoes to fill for Mr. Stuckey.

BTW, I think Detroit fit together like a puzzle and now that one piece is gone and some of the players are getting a little grey, more changes are inevitable. It will be interesting to see what Dumars does next...

cinotimz
01-19-2009, 11:12 PM
He doesn't have the polished post game bullups does, but he's every bit as phyiscal at the rim, if not more so.

Stuckey seeks out contact. He loves to hit and get hit.


Sounds like hes playing for the wrong team. Pistons shouldve kept Chauncey and optioned Stuckey to the Lions. Theyre sorely lacking of guys that seek out contact-guys who love to hit and get hit.

King Tuts Tomb
01-20-2009, 12:57 AM
yeah, I laughed my *** off at that comment too...

We beat below average opponents...like Orlando, the Cavs, the Lakers, the spurs....

other than that though, yeah we pretty much padded our record against sub-.500 teams. Good one.

I'm not sure you watch your own team (or take the time to really read anyone else's comments).

I said your seven game win streak was over less than stellar competition. The Cavs, Lakers and Spurs weren't part of that win streak. Only one good team (Orlando) was. John Hollinger called it the worst 7 game win streak of all time.

Actually looking at the schedule would be more difficult, I know, but it's much more rewarding than just being condescending all the time.

Kstat
01-20-2009, 02:27 AM
....and a game after losing a close one in portland they beat denver on the road.

They were playing as well as anybody in the league with that lineup. To say they were just beating up on bad competition is just plain wrong, not to mention ridiculous.

King Tuts Tomb
01-20-2009, 05:16 AM
....and a game after losing a close one in portland they beat denver on the road.

They were playing as well as anybody in the league with that lineup. To say they were just beating up on bad competition is just plain wrong, not to mention ridiculous.

Contending that the Pistons were playing as well as anybody in the league is ridiculous.

They beat Denver on the road, without Carmelo.

They beat New Jersey, without Vince.

They beat the Clippers by 1, without Baron or Randolph.

Once that string of easy Ws ran out, they hit a bad stretch. Like I said, they're a slightly above average team that's going to beat some good teams, lose to some bad teams and get bounced early in the playoffs.

Fool
01-20-2009, 08:09 AM
So they are a team that will beat some tough teams and lose to some bad ones, yet you feel the need to discount the teams they beat and try to claim that once they played "tough" the competition they lost.

Your message is a little muddled.

The easier claim to defend is that they were finding ways to win when Hamilton and Sheed got hurt and they went back to a more traditional lineup but now that all their starters are back and they are trying to force a terrible lineup on the floor again they are back to struggling just like before.

The entire TNT broadcast team sees it that way. Why would you feel a different explanation is necessary? http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/01/19/nba_story.aldridge20090119/index.html

Shade
01-20-2009, 09:05 AM
I agree that the Pistons aren't all that good right now (maybe a .550-.600 team or so), but they're arguably the worst team in the league with that horrendous small ball line-up.

King Tuts Tomb
01-20-2009, 09:26 AM
So they are a team that will beat some tough teams and lose to some bad ones, yet you feel the need to discount the teams they beat and try to claim that once they played "tough" the competition they lost.

Your message is a little muddled.

The easier claim to defend is that they were finding ways to win when Hamilton and Sheed got hurt and they went back to a more traditional lineup but now that all their starters are back and they are trying to force a terrible lineup on the floor again they are back to struggling just like before.

The entire TNT broadcast team sees it that way. Why would you feel a different explanation is necessary? http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/01/19/nba_story.aldridge20090119/index.html

Not sure how it's muddled. I'm discounting that seven game win streak because the competition was SO awful that you can't hold that up as an indicator of that Pistons team.

Fool
01-20-2009, 10:29 AM
It's muddled because you offer two explanations for the same event. Either they won those seven games because they are a marginal team capable of beating some good teams some times or they won those seven games because the teams were all terrible and once they got to good teams they lost because they can't beat good teams.

Also, I'll let the world know that the team with the best record in the league is "SO awful".

Kstat
01-20-2009, 11:20 AM
right. we got exposed against those powerhouses from Charlotte, Indiana and Oklahoma city...

You know, the murder's row of our schedule :laugh:

King Tuts Tomb
01-20-2009, 11:30 AM
It's muddled because you offer two explanations for the same event. Either they won those seven games because they are a marginal team capable of beating some good teams some times or they won those seven games because the teams were all terrible and once they got to good teams they lost because they can't beat good teams.


I don't see how they can't be both. They ARE a team that can beat good teams and lose to bad teams. So are the Pacers and the Bucks and the Bobcats and the Mavericks and most teams in this league. My point is that they're a lot like most of the middle of the pack teams in this league.

And they DID hit an exceptionally easy part of the schedule A majority of teams in the league would have gone 6-1 or 7-0 over that stretch. Once that super easy part ended they came back to earth. I didn't expect them to lose five straight, but they're gonna play slightly above .500 for the rest of the season.

My main point:

The seven game win streak is not evidence that this Pistons team is a great team.
Kstat posited that the seven game win streak was evidence that when the Pistons were playing with their best lineup they were a great team. I disagree. I think they hit an easy part of their schedule. They were never a great team.

King Tuts Tomb
01-20-2009, 11:42 AM
right. we got exposed against those powerhouses from Charlotte, Indiana and Oklahoma city...

You know, the murder's row of our schedule :laugh:

Home: CHI
Home: OKC
Away: MIL
Home: ORL
Home: NJ
Home: SAC
Away: LAC

AWAY: POR
AWAY: DEN
AWAY: UTA
AWAY: CHA
HOME: IND
AWAY: OKC
HOME: NOH

Which schedule do you think the Pistons dominated?

The second one isn't a murderers row, but it's sure harder than the first.

Kstat
01-20-2009, 01:33 PM
OKC and charlotte: DEFINITELY harder.

Kstat
01-20-2009, 02:45 PM
It's been settled. Rip Hamilton is coming off the bench. Amir Johnson is back in the starting lineup.

Kstat
01-21-2009, 09:47 PM
So...yeah....I'm liking the new rotation.

All of a sudden, we're back to being a dominant defensive team.

GrangerRanger
01-21-2009, 09:56 PM
Don't see how. Your still playing with a small ball lineup for what seems to be 20 to 30 minutes of the game.

Kstat
01-21-2009, 09:58 PM
....did you watch the game at all? There was hardly any small ball at all.

We blocked 5 shots, held them to %42 shooting and beat the tar out of them on the glass, 40-28. If that's small ball, sign me up.

GrangerRanger
01-21-2009, 10:03 PM
You ended a losing streak against a team that sucks and is currently riding one of their own. Bravo.

Just like when two undefeated teams face off in college, someone has to walk out of the stadium with a broken streak. I believe this throttling of the Raptors places you back on the top of the "2008 - 2009 Champions" odds list.

Kstat
01-21-2009, 10:11 PM
You ended a losing streak against a team that sucks and is currently riding one of their own. Bravo.

Just like when two undefeated teams face off in college, someone has to walk out of the stadium with a broken streak. I believe this throttling of the Raptors places you back on the top of the "2008 - 2009 Champions" odds list.

Hooray for strawman arguments! :laugh:

I'm still waiting to hear your explanation of how we played "smallball" tonight...

GrangerRanger
01-22-2009, 04:55 PM
And I'm still waiting to hear how Kwame Brown is playing big down low and how a measly 5 blocks and a horrible fg percentage on the same team that the pacers (near the worst team in the league in defense) held to low percentage is playing dominant interior defense.

Kstat
01-22-2009, 08:35 PM
1. Kwame played well earlier in the season, but he's gone back to being kwame and is currently the odd man out. no big deal, as there are a handful of solid bigs on this team.

2. The Pistons are top-5 in the NBA in both points allowed and %FG. Last night was simply a continuation of how they've defended every game that they've started Amir, Sheed, Tayshaun, Rip and Iverson.

Does thrashing toronto prove anything by itself? No, but they weren't thrashing anybody with the small ball lineup, nor were they beating anybody up on the boards.

Maxiell was racking up DNP-CDs because Prince was taking his minutes at PF. Voila, he puts up a double-double in his first game back in the rotation. Rip Hamilton is no longer having to find a purpose out in the floor. He's running curls to his heart's content with Dice and Maxiell playing off of him.

The pieces fit now. There is chemistry now. I don't care who they are playing, you can tell the difference.

I can't wait for the rest of this season, and to see how this all plays out. Our backcourt has awesome potential as a 3-man rotation.

GrangerRanger
01-24-2009, 03:15 AM
The Pistons were thrashed and absolutely murdered tonight by a team without a interior offensive or defensive threat.

Ha ha ha ha ha and ha.

Kstat
01-24-2009, 09:27 AM
Good luck with that.

Shade
01-25-2009, 10:44 PM
Another loss tonight, to a very short-handed Houston team.

Curry moved Rip to the bench, right? So, what has happened the last couple of games? I haven't been able to see them, and I'm curious why Detroit is still losing.

duke dynamite
01-25-2009, 10:50 PM
I'm glad that this thread is getting a lot of discussion.

It's hard for me to say if I feel sorry for the Pistons right now or not.

kester99
01-25-2009, 10:58 PM
Not a fan of the Pistons, but I've always respected the franchise. Once I would have said Dumars was golden, but, wow, as the kids say. Is AI redundant? Is Rip? Curry sure is, far as I can tell. Some questionable calls there, Joe.

Used to love them when they could put five Indiana players on the court at the same time...I. Thomas, Tripuka, Dantley, Big Whiney, and J. Thomas.

vnzla81
01-25-2009, 11:01 PM
I told you guys before, the best thing the piston could do is trade Iverson to Phoenix for Shaq. If Shaq is playing center all the other players would be playing their right position, Wallace PF, Prince SF, Hamilton SG and stuckey PG. They suck when they play small ball and almost everybody is out of place when Iverson is in the game.

CableKC
01-26-2009, 02:01 AM
I still maintain that the Pistons are a lock for the Playoffs and would be a very dangerous Playoff team no matter where they're seeded.

KStat, you would probably know....but what is the Salary Cap situation for the Pistons next season?

I'm guessing that they won't trade Iverson and will simply let him expire....do you think they will try to resign Sheed?

If not....then how much do they have left ( assuming that Rip picks up his Player option )?

I don't get the sense that Dumars is the type to panic and be goaded into making some change just because they are losing now, since he more then likely has some plans to go after some players in the 2009-2010 FA market to reload and fit more of what Curry is attempting to do.....like get a legit Starting Center or Low-Post PF.

Kstat
01-26-2009, 02:37 AM
Rip is re-signed for 2 more years after this.

And unless Amare is on the market, I don't see Joe D making a huge trade. He's got the massive cap space and he wants to keep it.

And BTW, there is no way in hell curry sees 2010 with this franchise. No way. He's the worst pistons coach I have ever seen. His lack of basic coaching knowledge is amazing.

Kstat
01-26-2009, 02:44 AM
BTW, this pistons team isnt nearly as bad as their record, and the 3-guard rotation is working.

AI, Stuckey and Rip combined for 58 points and 21 assists.

Their problem was the idiot coach never comes into the game with any kind of defensive gameplan, nor does he even consider the defensive matchups. He just rolls the ball out and tells them to "go do some stuff" (yes he actually said that after a timeout). It's a complete joke.

special ed
01-26-2009, 02:53 AM
There's 34 mil coming off the Pistons' books with AI and Sheed (should they make it through this trade deadline).
To me, it looks as if Dumars knew this Pistons' team wasn't gonna compete for the championship so he rolled the dice with that CB for AI trade. That allowed Stuckey more PT and gave JD a favorable salary cap situation. A lot of us laughed at the Kwame Brown signing, and the Curry as Head Coach thing was a head scratcher but I believe Dumars shows he has a lot of Jerry Jones in him on that one. Ya know, a head coach in name only so that the man can sort of run the show?
I was a huge Piston fan up until the brawl. Now I've got little to no use for that franchise but I would never laugh at their shortcomings because as Pacerfans we know those times can last far too long. It's just brutal watching this version of the Pistons, never knowing from night to night what you are gonna witness. Kind of like the last few years witnessing the Pacers' trainwreck.:eek:

Jonathan
01-26-2009, 12:30 PM
Dumars gets a lot of credit for winning a championship but he makes several questionable moves. The drafting of Darko and the AI trade. Which one do you feel hurt this team more?

Jonathan
01-26-2009, 12:31 PM
BTW, this pistons team isnt nearly as bad as their record, and the 3-guard rotation is working.

AI, Stuckey and Rip combined for 58 points and 21 assists.

Their problem was the idiot coach never comes into the game with any kind of defensive gameplan, nor does he even consider the defensive matchups. He just rolls the ball out and tells them to "go do some stuff" (yes he actually said that after a timeout). It's a complete joke.

JOB > Curry. So the hiring of Michael Curry is worse than drafting DARKO?

idioteque
01-26-2009, 12:35 PM
I have no animosity to most of the Pistons players, in fact I like a lot of their players, but I hate a portion of their fans (not Kstat) so Michael Curry is just karma coming to that franchise for me. :-p

I would love to play the Pistons in the playoffs.

CableKC
01-26-2009, 12:45 PM
Dumars gets a lot of credit for winning a championship but he makes several questionable moves. The drafting of Darko and the AI trade. Which one do you feel hurt this team more?
Between Darko and AI......I guess the only answer is drafting Darko.

Outside of the copious amounts of Capspace they got from trading for AI......the jury is out on AI assimilating into a Pistons uniform for another couple of months. But to be fair to Dumars.....drafting Darko as a mistake is more of a "hindsight is 20/20" judgement call. It's like asking why the Pacers drafted Harrison way back when....it was simply a good choice at that time given the situation. I'm sure that KStat will explain it much better why the Pistons picked Darko over Carmello, but t's not like Dumars was the only GM in the league ( back then ) that thought that Darko was a top 3 pick.

CableKC
01-26-2009, 12:52 PM
Rip is re-signed for 2 more years after this.

And unless Amare is on the market, I don't see Joe D making a huge trade. He's got the massive cap space and he wants to keep it.

And BTW, there is no way in hell curry sees 2010 with this franchise. No way. He's the worst pistons coach I have ever seen. His lack of basic coaching knowledge is amazing.
You think they will resign Rasheed?

If not, then in the 2009-2010 Offseason, it would seem the Pistons will be in the market for a new Starting Frontcourt at the PF and C positions. I'm guessing that Maxiell, Kwame and Amir would be considered very solid Rotational Big Men off the bench....but not the type of quality Starters that you would want in your lineup next to Stuckey, Rip and Prince.

Jonathan
01-26-2009, 02:42 PM
Cable KC. I think Harrison was not that terrible of a draft pick in the 2004 draft. Yes Anderson Varejo was taken with the next pick but we probably did not want to mess with his contract with FC Barcelona @ the time. Darko is the single handly worst pick in the last five years. He went after Lebron then you see Carmelo, (fresh off dominating the tourney) Chris Bosh, and Dewayne Wade going after hin in the top five makes him look ten times worse.

Kstat
01-26-2009, 02:46 PM
I think Rasheed is going to be cut loose after this season, unless he takes a substantial paycut.

Another idea is he might be used to offer philly a chance to press the re-set button on elton brand's contract. Joe has enough expiring contracts where he can take elton off of philly's hands and still have room left over in 2009 for another max free agent.

Anthem
01-26-2009, 05:25 PM
Between Darko and AI......I guess the only answer is drafting Darko.
I don't think the AI trade was a mistake... I think making the trade showed that he thought the season was a loss. Any wins they got were just to appease the fans, not to accomplish anything for the franchise.

Darko, though, was a terrible pick. It was terrible at the time and it continued to be terrible.

Naptown_Seth
01-27-2009, 02:35 AM
The fact that they are already ready to move AI and that Billups has made Denver a serious West contender when they looked headed to another junk borderline playoffs season says that the trade was a dud.

Okay, they had no chance this year (bull freaking s*** I say), even still Billups play makes him more valuable than AIs expiring IMO. Billups has shown that he's clearly not falling off the table or anything, he's still a strong PG force and is capable of making your team much better.

Maybe SOME team wants an AI fix, gone at the end of the year, but teams with a window that lasts even till next year, let alone longer, would rather have Billups (ahem, Miami for example). Billups nets you more in a trade right now than AI.

So you keep CB, you are still an East contender and even if you aren't you get more for him than AI at this point. You think teams aren't noticing this whole trend where Andre Miller and Billups both improved the teams they went to?

Talk up AI deferring, maturing, whatever all you want, the fact is that even if that's true is WAY overdue. If you are a few years from retirement and finally learning to be part of the team (skipping practice says you aren't) then I think its too late and makes me wonder how legit such a change is. Most changes at his age come from mid-life crisis which is pretty much the opposite of maturity. I think a lot of GMs see this.

Then again Denver obviously isn't handing over Billups to anyone, so AI might be the best option for teams like Miami anyway...if they can swing the cost and don't mind giving up so much for a guy they might not keep after this year. But if Detroit wanted to bail and was still holding Billups instead of AI they'd be sitting pretty. Any move that reduces your assets is a loss, period. That's why the Darko draft was a bust even if they won anyway and didn't need him.

Trader Joe
01-27-2009, 02:48 AM
I think Rasheed is going to be cut loose after this season, unless he takes a substantial paycut.

Another idea is he might be used to offer philly a chance to press the re-set button on elton brand's contract. Joe has enough expiring contracts where he can take elton off of philly's hands and still have room left over in 2009 for another max free agent.

(I'm guessing you mean 2010?)

Regardless, the idea of someone signing a max contract to play in Detroit in this economy is absolutely absurd. I'm sorry to say it like that, but if the Pistons really think they can get a max player to come there (as a free agent), they are just kidding themselves. Would you want to go play in Detroit for 20 mill. when you could get the same amount of money somewhere else? I just don't see it. It has absolutely nothing to do with their team and everything to do with their city. When you sign a max long term deal you are expecting to be in and around that city for a while, and would YOU really wanna make that commitment right now to Detroit? I know I wouldn't. You'd really have to hope Dumars has considered this. Cause I just don't see it happening.

King Tuts Tomb
01-27-2009, 03:53 AM
BTW, this pistons team isnt nearly as bad as their record, and the 3-guard rotation is working.

AI, Stuckey and Rip combined for 58 points and 21 assists.

Their problem was the idiot coach never comes into the game with any kind of defensive gameplan, nor does he even consider the defensive matchups. He just rolls the ball out and tells them to "go do some stuff" (yes he actually said that after a timeout). It's a complete joke.

Their record is 24-19. Are they significantly better than that?

In January they beat one team with a winning record.

Regardless of their coaching, they don't have the talent to be a contender.

Major Cold
01-27-2009, 01:55 PM
A coaching change maybe...

naptownmenace
01-27-2009, 04:23 PM
Two questions for Pistons fans:

1. Why isn't Maxiel playing more? He's better than Amir Johnson, IMO and the team's defense was much better with him getting more minutes in the rotation.

2. Why would they ever play Prince at the 4? If they have to start Rip and AI, why not move Prince to 6th man and use him in a Ginobili type role?


I think if they would just start Maxiel at the 4 and bring Prince in as the first guy off the bench they'd be a more balanced team.

shags
01-27-2009, 07:01 PM
Two questions for Pistons fans:

1. Why isn't Maxiel playing more? He's better than Amir Johnson, IMO and the team's defense was much better with him getting more minutes in the rotation.

2. Why would they ever play Prince at the 4? If they have to start Rip and AI, why not move Prince to 6th man and use him in a Ginobili type role?


I think if they would just start Maxiel at the 4 and bring Prince in as the first guy off the bench they'd be a more balanced team.

1. I think if Maxiell played more (like 30 minutes a night consistently), his flaws would be exposed. He's too short and makes too many defensive mistakes. He's better as an energy guy off the bench.

2. The Pistons have a terrible coach, that's why Prince played the 4. That takes away so many of Prince's strengths. They need Prince's defense to start, plus he's very versatile and does a lot of intangible things that don't show up in the box score.

And Rip and Iverson don't need to start (although it's a better than smallball). Iverson's done as a Piston after this year, barring a massive turnaround or a trade of Hamilton. I'm really interested to see what happens with Iverson after this season.

Kstat
01-27-2009, 09:22 PM
Two questions for Pistons fans:

1. Why isn't Maxiel playing more? He's better than Amir Johnson, IMO and the team's defense was much better with him getting more minutes in the rotation.

2. Why would they ever play Prince at the 4? If they have to start Rip and AI, why not move Prince to 6th man and use him in a Ginobili type role?


I think if they would just start Maxiel at the 4 and bring Prince in as the first guy off the bench they'd be a more balanced team.



the answers to all of the above is that curry is an idiot.

vnzla81
01-27-2009, 09:26 PM
the answers to allof the above is that curry is an idiot.

I still think that the pistons could be a monster if they get Shaq for Iverson. what do you think?