PDA

View Full Version : 2009 Free Agents To Take a Chance On



nerveghost
01-16-2009, 10:37 AM
Its clear that we need to fill some holes on the lineup - the question is if there are any 2009 Free Agents could fill those needs and make a difference for the Pacers. There are some nice pieces out there, so I thought I would nominate some potential candidates for our consideration-

The full list can be found here for your perusal:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=FreeAgents-09-10

The Difference Makers:
I only see two

Carl Boozer
Unrestricted
20.5pt, 11.7reb, 0.3blk

A big-time post scorer and solid rebounder that could provide the Pacers with a high-powered 1-2 punch with Granger on the offensive end. He is not a great individual defender or shot blocker however, so that problem could still remain unless other moves are made. There is also a question if Utah would keep Boozer or...

Paul Millsap
Restricted
15.3pt, 9.5reb, 1.2blk

I haven't seen Paul play this year, but his numbers in Boozer's absence show a strong scorer, strong rebounder, and a better interior defender than Boozer. A little undersized at 6'8". If I had a quess, I'd say Millsap is the guy we want, but I don't think Utah has any attention of letting him leave. So will Boozer be available, or is Utah looking to keep both? I guess we'll see...

Rock Solid Additions

Marvin Williams
Restricted
13.4pt, 6.1reb, 0.7blk

A young player that could beef up the front line and would fit in well with O'Brien's offense with his shooting and passing. He would add some much needed athleticism to the team. His best is ahead of him at only 22 and is an above average defender. Doubtful that Atlanta would let him go.

Anderson Varejao
Unrestricted
9.3pt, 7.1reb, 0.7blk

Could Sideshow Bob be the new Dale Davis? A poor offensive player but a tenacious defender, Varejao could be the secret ingredient to a defensively challenged team. And at 6-11 (7-2 with afro) he could eat up space in the middle. Unlike Double-D though, he can hit a spot-up fifteen footer. He's one to take a chance on, I think.

Brandon Bass
Unrestricted
7.8pt, 4.3reb, 0.6blk

A little undersized for a power forward at 6'8", but has some good offensive moves to his credit. Could help coming off the bench with post scoring - but seems to mostly be more of a slasher and a mid-range shooter. I'm not impressed by his rebounding or blocked shots numbers for a PF, and the ability to defend the interior is what I value most, but I think you could get him for a good price.

Wild Cards



Chris "The Birdman" Anderson
5.6pt, 5.4reb, 1.9blk

A true wild card in every sense of the word, his athleticism would be a tremendous value on a team that seems glued to the floor sometimes. McBob has the ability to be the exact same player though, without the painted fingernails...or the baggage.


No Way in Hell
Don't even ask. We don't want them, need them, or they won't give Indiana a second look.

Ron Artest (unrestricted)
Kwame Brown (unrestricted)
Allen Iverson (unrestricted)
Rasheed Wallace (unrestricted) - I think he would be perfect - kind of like when we added Byron Scott. Experience and championship swagger. Fact is, he'll only sign with a contender.
Ricky Davis (unrestricted)
David Lee (restricted) - he'll be re-signed by NY.

Here are our FA, and my predictions on whether they'll be back:

RESTRICTED
Jarrett Jack (yes)
Josh McRoberts (yes)

UNRESTRICTED
Maceo Baston (gone)
Marquis Daniels (T) (gone)
Travis Diener (P) (gone)
Stephen Graham (gone)
Rasho Nesterovic (gone)

Jonathan
01-16-2009, 11:00 AM
Why should Q6 be gone? He is a very good defender. He can drive to the basket and score. His shot has improved. Keep in m ind Brandon has not panned out the way this organization thought he would.

Jonathan
01-16-2009, 11:01 AM
Stephen Graham does not make a lot of money and can score the ball. JOB said he is a great locker room guy. I do not see him gone either.

Quis
01-16-2009, 11:01 AM
I'm not seeing anyone worth pursuing, assuming we even use all or part of our MLE.

Millsap has played his way into at least $8M a year.

Bass looks like another Diogu.

Birdman was suspended for two years for violating the drug policy with a "hard" drug. No way will he ever wear a Pacer uniform.

Varejao will likely get more than the MLE. I don't think he's that good anyways. I'd rather try for significant capspace in the next two-three years than sign mediocrity to long contracts.

David Lee, again, more than the MLE, although it sounds like he could be available in a sign & trade.

Asides from maybe inquiring about Lee in a sign & trade, I think this free agent class does nothing for us.

pianoman
01-16-2009, 11:04 AM
Diener will stay. No way in heck We get boozer or Millsap. Birdman wouldn't be a good choice due to his suspension from the league. Varejao will want to be overpaid (just like the last time he was a free agent) Brandon bass. hmm didn't we try an undersized pf named diogu? yeah, how'd that work for us? And Marvin is a key piece in Atlanta. It's very doubtful they'll let him go.

i'm not bashing this nerveghost, I'm just saying I would be very suprised if we got any of these guys in free agency. If we want a pf, a trade would be the best way to get him.

Anthem
01-16-2009, 11:08 AM
Yeah, I imagine we'll keep Graham and Diener.

PacerGuy
01-16-2009, 11:10 AM
-To put D.Lee in the bottom group is stupid. At his age & the #'s he has been putting up, he is a solid player w/ no "baggage" Besides. I do not think NYK will sign him as it hurts their '10 goal. Now, if they could get a contract that expires in '09 or '10 for J.Jefferies &/or E.Curry, then I could see them resigning D.Lee.
-Assuming T.Deiner is opting out is a streach. I have not heard that brought up by anyone who talks about this teams off-season worries. If we do think TD will bolt, I could see him being moved. This would be the type of player Cle might have interest in w/o West.
-A few others that w/ the right contract I could see filling some needs/ fitting our style are: K.Korver, Wilcox, Kleiza, Villanueva, Zaza, Almond. Of this group, Kleiza is the least likely due to $, & Korver reportedly liks Utah, but these players would be lower-end style fits (IMO).

nerveghost
01-16-2009, 11:12 AM
just nominations, pianoman - i'm interested to hear how others feel about these players.


To put D.Lee in the bottom group is stupid.

These aren't really talent rankings - I ranked them more along the lines of "realistic availability". I would have put him up top, but I think NY will do whatever they need to do to resign him.

But I could be wrong. Given that he is one of their few valued assets, he very well could be available in a sign-and-trade.

Dr. Goldfoot
01-16-2009, 11:18 AM
Some of the names that piqued my interest....

Chris Anderson
Quinton Ross
Matt Barnes

Shade
01-16-2009, 11:19 AM
I think Utah will do whatever they can to hold onto Millsap, so Boozer is very likely to be out the door. I proposed that we trade Quis and Rasho for Boozer and Collins, as all four players are expirings and it would be interesting to see what Boozer brings to the table, even though I'm not exactly a Boozer fan. But, it would very low risk to try.

Outside of that, I'm not sure that any of those players would be a good enough fit. And I don't think we really have the $$$ to play in free agency (as usual). I do know, however, that I would have to seriously reevaluate my fan status if we got Sheed. You have no idea how much I loathe that guy.

xtacy
01-16-2009, 11:49 AM
you count david lee as no way in hell. he's better than all three guys you count as rock solid additions imo. considering boozer's injuries i would take lee ahead of him as well. this team needs someone like him.

Shade
01-16-2009, 11:51 AM
you count david lee as no way in hell. he's better than all three guys you count as rock solid additions imo. considering boozer's injuries i would take lee ahead of him as well. this team needs someone like him.

He is assuming that the Knicks will re-sign Lee.

And Lee is not the long-term answer for us, anyway.

flox
01-16-2009, 11:52 AM
I realy don't understand why Boozer would come here. There is very little incentive for him to be in Indy. Millsap will be probably locked up in Utah. Bass is a decent option. CV4 may walk, I don't know if he will come here though. Lee probably will get resigned, but may not be a Knick.

Anderson has wayy to much baggage.

I see us keeping Jack, Diener, and McBob

jhondog28
01-16-2009, 11:53 AM
Some of the names that piqued my interest....

Chris Anderson
Quinton Ross
Matt Barnes

Stay away form Barnes he has Pacer thuggalishinious written all over him. He will make Tinsley look like the tooth fairy

duke dynamite
01-16-2009, 11:55 AM
Of all those people, all that matters to me is that Diener stays.

pacergod2
01-16-2009, 11:56 AM
Brandon Bass. Have any of you seen this guy play? Or are you just assuming because he is 6'8", he is Ike Diogu? Ike Diogu has a much different game than Bass does. Ike Diogu is a swing SF-PF type that had a long wingspan. Bass is an extremely strong PF. He plays very good defense and plays much "bigger" than 6'8". He weighs 250 lbs and its all muscle. His body type is similar to guys like Boozer, Millsap, and Karl Malone. They were all 6'8"/6'9" and right around 250. Diogu has the size but he wasn't as strong as he should have been at 6'8" and 240. He was too weak to play PF and not quick enough to be decent at SF. That is his downfall. Bass has good post moves offensively, but is not a priority in Dallas' offensive schemes. He gets most of his points in Dallas off of what the others create. He is usually the fourth option on the floor when out there only because of the veterans that team has. I think whatever team gives him an opportunity to come in and get more, consistent minutes will be very happy they signed the guy.

MillerTime
01-16-2009, 11:59 AM
Why should Q6 be gone? He is a very good defender. He can drive to the basket and score. His shot has improved. Keep in m ind Brandon has not panned out the way this organization thought he would.

Q6's team option is over $7 million. Thats too much for him

Major Cold
01-16-2009, 12:08 PM
NYK will not resign Lee as his new contract would jeopardize any chance of landing the big 3 in 2010.

Justin Tyme
01-16-2009, 12:15 PM
I think Utah will do whatever they can to hold onto Millsap, so Boozer is very likely to be out the door. I proposed that we trade Quis and Rasho for Boozer and Collins, as all four players are expirings and it would be interesting to see what Boozer brings to the table, even though I'm not exactly a Boozer fan. But, it would very low risk to try.

Outside of that, I'm not sure that any of those players would be a good enough fit. And I don't think we really have the $$$ to play in free agency (as usual). I do know, however, that I would have to seriously reevaluate my fan status if we got Sheed. You have no idea how much I loathe that guy.


Sorry, all 4 players don't have expiring contracts, Daniels' is a team option. It's only an expiring if the team that holds his contract doesn't opt to keep him next season. I know you knew this, but it irritates me that it is constantly viewed as an expiring when it truly isn't.

IMO, Daniels option won't be picked up by the Pacers, UNLESS they think he can be used in a trade this offseason. My feeling is Rush will be the b/u SG next season with Graham re-signed cheaply as the 3rd SG. Bird has to prove he made the right decision in trading Bayless for Rush, even though there are some who thinks he made a booboo doing it.;)

nerveghost
01-16-2009, 12:17 PM
NYK will not resign Lee as his new contract would jeopardize any chance of landing the big 3 in 2010.

Fair enough on Lee - although I agree with Shade, he's probably not the answer, unless he's a better defensive player than I think he is. I've only seen him play once or twice.

My predictions on the Pacer players are based on the idea that we will definitely make some moves this summer, and the contracts for Diener, Quis, Rasho and others are attractive commodities for a trade (or a sign-and-trade). Unfortunately, you gotta give up something to get something.

Of all of them, I like Diener's chance to stay the most because of how O'Brien values him as a third point guard. I like him, too. He makes good decisions and is great with distributing the ball. Has his foot healed yet?

Major Cold
01-16-2009, 12:25 PM
I really think sign and trade is a thing of the past in the NBA.

Justin Tyme
01-16-2009, 12:26 PM
Bass looks like another Diogu.

Birdman was suspended for two years for violating the drug policy with a "hard" drug. No way will he ever wear a Pacer uniform.




The difference is Brandon can play where Ike (crown jewel of the GS trade) can't.

It's ironical that the Birdman was mentioned. I have kept my eye on him all season, and was thinking he be a great asset to the Pacers. As previously mentioned, his problems doesn't fit in with the new milk drinkers image of the Pacers, so I'll just keep watching him at Denver. I figure Denver will re-sign him.

pacergod2
01-16-2009, 12:28 PM
And to respond to the slap on Barnes... He is supposedly one of the most easy-going and nicest guys you will ever meet. He and Steve Nash are boys in Phoenix and hang out all the time. If you want to group the guy, he is more skater than thug. Just because he has a lot of tattoos, don't automatically judge the guy by calling him a thug. I understand the image of playing for Golden State.


ContraCostaTimes.com
by "Marcus"
July 20, 2008
http://www.ibabuzz.com/warriors/category/matt-barnes/

SB Nation
by "Suns Ben"
http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2008/11/26/673683/suns-fans-this-year-be-tha

The Suns Official Website
by Matt Barnes
http://blogs.suns.com/2008/11/2266/

Look at the very first comment on his blog. He ordered a bunch of Bracelet's for Barbosa's mom passing away for them to give the proceeds to a cancer charity.

I hope my citations are correct.

Justin Tyme
01-16-2009, 12:30 PM
Of all of them, I like Diener's chance to stay the most because of how O'Brien values him as a third point guard.


Where else would he be going? He has a player option, and he's not going to test the FA waters when he's a 3rd string PG.

Shade
01-16-2009, 12:33 PM
Sorry, all 4 players don't have expiring contracts, Daniels' is a team option. It's only an expiring if the team that holds his contract doesn't opt to keep him next season. I know you knew this, but it irritates me that it is constantly viewed as an expiring when it truly isn't.

IMO, Daniels option won't be picked up by the Pacers, UNLESS they think he can be used in a trade this offseason. My feeling is Rush will be the b/u SG next season with Graham re-signed cheaply as the 3rd SG. Bird has to prove he made the right decision in trading Bayless for Rush, even though there are some who thinks he made a booboo doing it.;)

That actually adds more incentive for Utah to do the trade, as they can choose to keep Quis if they want, or let him go if they'd prefer the cap-space. But, essentially, it's an expiring contract.

And like you said, the Pacers are unlikely to retain Quis, anyway.

Shade
01-16-2009, 12:34 PM
And to respond to the slap on Barnes... He is supposedly one of the most easy-going and nicest guys you will ever meet. He and Steve Nash are boys in Phoenix and hang out all the time. If you want to group the guy, he is more skater than thug. Just because he has a lot of tattoos, don't automatically judge the guy by calling him a thug. I understand the image of playing for Golden State.


ContraCostaTimes.com
by "Marcus"
July 20, 2008
http://www.ibabuzz.com/warriors/category/matt-barnes/

SB Nation
by "Suns Ben"
http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2008/11/26/673683/suns-fans-this-year-be-tha

The Suns Official Website
by Matt Barnes
http://blogs.suns.com/2008/11/2266/

Look at the very first comment on his blog. He ordered a bunch of Bracelet's for Barbosa's mom passing away for them to give the proceeds to a cancer charity.

I hope my citations are correct.

Yeah. Just like Stephen Jackson and Rasheed Wallace. :-p

Dece
01-16-2009, 12:43 PM
The quibbling over Quis' contract not being expiring, when it is if management decides it is, every time it's brought up just cracks me up. In every way his contract situation is even better than expiring, because it's entirely up to management if they want it to be or not.

Seriously, just let it go, it adds nothing to the discussion and just makes you look pedantic as well as another "p" word.

duke dynamite
01-16-2009, 12:48 PM
The quibbling over Quis' contract not being expiring, when it is if management decides it is, every time it's brought up just cracks me up. In every way his contract situation is even better than expiring, because it's entirely up to management if they want it to be or not.

Seriously, just let it go, it adds nothing to the discussion and just makes you look pedantic as well as another "p" word.
Wow, someone needs their formula.

Jonathan
01-16-2009, 01:05 PM
Ron Carney. He has been playing real decent ball as of late for Minnesota. He is a SF. How is his defense?

Dece
01-16-2009, 01:24 PM
Not sure I follow you here Duke. My laughing at someone for being overly concerned about a trivial distinction means I am being a baby? I mean, I guess babies laugh, but I don't think they'd have the rational capacity to comprehend the situation. Maybe you should just stick to making superfluous post game threads, and leave the one liners for the clever.

As far as the free agent listing goes... No one I'd want out of this crop will take the MLE to play here, and that's all we'll have. Nothing doing this year, barring a big trade.

Justin Tyme
01-16-2009, 01:37 PM
The quibbling over Quis' contract not being expiring, when it is if management decides it is, every time it's brought up just cracks me up.

In every way his contract situation is even better than expiring, because it's entirely up to management if they want it to be or not.

Seriously, just let it go, it adds nothing to the discussion and just makes you look pedantic as well as another "p" word.



AGAIN, only if managemet wants it to be.

That's a good point, and I wouldn't disagree with it.

How I look in your eyes really doesn't change a thing in my life. I won't even remember your comment tomorrow, but you are more than entitled express it. Now keep warm, it's really cold outside.:)

nerveghost
01-16-2009, 01:39 PM
I think its understood, at least by me, that a trade would be required to land most of these players. The good players are rarely had for free - unless you're the Clippers. I welcome you guys to go to an online Trade Machine and propose something for any of these guys that makes sense.

To me - I don't think Bird would wager the future (i.e. trade some young talented guys) for Boozer or Milsap. But I am intrigued by what Sideshow Bob could bring to the table.

Mourning
01-16-2009, 01:50 PM
I do know, however, that I would have to seriously reevaluate my fan status if we got Sheed. You have no idea how much I loathe that guy.

Yup. Same here.

Jonathan
01-16-2009, 02:24 PM
Sideshow BOB
Anderson Varejo will bring the same thing Jeff Foster does just for a few million dollars more. I have not watched enough of him on offense to say if he does or doesn't have a better offensive game then Foster. He does hustle and is scrappy.

CableKC
01-16-2009, 02:46 PM
Sorry to be a party-pooper....but before anyone gets excited about who we should sign next offseason to fix our woes.....let's quickly refer back to the thread regarding the liklihood that the 2009-2010 Luxury Tax could remain flat compared to this season's Luxury Tax and the likely impact it would have on the Pacers ( as well as other Teams ) FA options next offseason:

http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/showthread.php?t=43739

Here is a rather well-thought out post regarding the likely impact of this by count55:



Roughing this out, with the following assumptions:

Cap same as this year: $58.65, Tax: $71.15

Payroll prior to extensions
$41.8m

Extensions already signed
Danny $10.5mm (it will be between $10 & $10.5, 90% sure)
Jeff $6.0mm

Updated Payroll: $58.3mm

Anticipated re-signings/signings

Jarrett Jack $4.0mm
1st Round pick $2.0mm

New Payroll: $64.3mm

Space left under Tax: $6.8mm

Players under contract: 11 (including Tinsley)

Therefore, we'd have to use that $6.8mm to sign three to four players.

If we traded Rasho or Quis for a player with a longer term contract (than theirs), that would eat into the $6.8mm.

Also, the $6.8mm is less than the $7.4mm that Quis is owed. Even if my estimates on Jack, Danny, the pick and Jeff are a little high, signing Jack and picking up the option on Quis would put us right at or just over the tax with only 12 players (11 playing) under contract.

I firmly believe we should re-sign Jack, but I understand that others may disagree.

If the cap figure does not move, I would make the following predictions:

1. Daniels and Rasho will be allowed to walk.
2. Jack will be re-signed.
3. One or both of McBob and Graham will be re-signed on the cheap.
4. We will not be in the free agent market at all.

As the trade deadline approaches, the Pacers may make a deal, but I would guess that they will be very hesitant to deal Rasho or Daniels without sending out one of their big contracts with them: Murphy, Dunleavy, or Tinsley...and I believe that will significantly reduce the chances of any other team being interested.

The net impact of the cap being flat is a reduction in available space below the tax of about $3.5 to $4.0mm...effectively, a player.
IF the Luxury Tax threshold remains the same for the 2009-2010 season, then it would seem that our FA options are going to be limited to the following ASSUMING that we resign Jack in the 2009-2010 Offseason:

1 ) Signing 2 "end of the bench" Players that will likely be in a suits for the majority of the season for < $1mil per player ( likely Graham and/or McRoberts ) .
2 ) Signing some FA to a $3-4 mil per year contract.

This means that EVEN if we let Marquis and Rasho expire.....the best Player that we would be able to sign as a FA next offseason would be a solid "7th to 9th" rotational type player at $3-4mil a year....not a Player like Varajeo or Milsap ( both of whom will likley command more then what we can afford to pay )....much less a Starting quality player like Boozer ( who is looking for more then the $12 mil a year that he is currently owed ).

Given our likely limitations....a player that I would be interested in that maybe realistic that may fit our needs at a $3-4 mil a year would be Leon Powe. Leon Powe maybe undersized as a PF at 6'8", but he's a really solid Low-Post scoring PF that is strong inside the paint that provides good energy and hustle off the bench and ( unlike Ike ) appears to be smart enough to understand JO'Bs Defensive system. Also, one thing in the Pacers ( or any team interested in him ) favor is that the Celtics have 9 players signed to guaranteed Salary in the 2009-2010 at a tune of $69 mil.....I'm not sure how much we could offer him, but if it's high enough ( maybe some deal starting at $3-4 mil a season ) the Celtics could blink.

nerveghost
01-16-2009, 03:11 PM
IF the Luxury Tax threshold remains the same for the 2009-2010 season, then it would seem that our FA options are going to be limited to the following ASSUMING that we resign Jack in the 2009-2010 Offseason:

1 ) Signing 2 "end of the bench" Players that will likely be in a suits for the majority of the season for < $1mil per player ( likely Graham and/or McRoberts ) .
2 ) Signing some FA to a $3-4 mil per year contract.

So maybe this thread should be viewed more as an "available players" list - with acquisition being dependent on other moves being made (sign-and-trade only), yes?

Spirit
01-16-2009, 03:16 PM
Sideshow BOB
Anderson Varejo will bring the same thing Jeff Foster does just for a few million dollars more. I have not watched enough of him on offense to say if he does or doesn't have a better offensive game then Foster. He does hustle and is scrappy.
He only gives that effort in contract years. Last year, he had a 2 year contract, and didn't do crap. This year, he's back to hustling and playing hard. But, I think when he gets a long term contract, he'll suck and be lazy.

Only thing he can do on offense is the Rasho-eque mid range jumpers.

CableKC
01-16-2009, 03:33 PM
So maybe this thread should be viewed more as an "available players" list - with acquisition being dependent on other moves being made (sign-and-trade only), yes?
No problem, but let's be realistic here......since it seems unlikely that we would include Granger, BRush or Hibbert in any S&T and leaving out Diener since I assume that he will ( at most ) be included as "filler"....that leaves Dunleavy, Murphy, Foster and Ford ( all of which do not have Expiring Contracts until AFTER the 2010-2011 season ) as likely candidates in a S&T. Since about 2/3 of the league is trying to clear Capspace for the 2010 FA Sweepstakes, all of their contracts would be considered "toxic". This means that the # of teams out there that we could deal with is limited to those that want to compete now AND don't care about adding Salary to the 2010-2011 season.....which IMHO severely limits the liklihood that we do any S&T deal for any FA.

I'm guessing that we can do a S&T with Jack.....but why would we do that in the first place?

Assuming that it's allowed....I guess that we could do a S&T with Marquis after we pick up his Team option....but why would a team want Marquis for $7 mil ( assuming that we don't include any incentive like Draft picks )?

I could be wrong in all of this.......but the only way that we are going to fill the "holes" in the offseason that we have is through the 2009 draft and ( at most ) signing some 2009 FA to some $3-4 mil a year contract.

nerveghost
01-16-2009, 03:36 PM
Makes sense. I tend to agree that the draft is our best option to improve.

Justin Tyme
01-16-2009, 04:09 PM
deal for any FA.


Assuming that it's allowed....I guess that we could do a S&T with Marquis

I could be wrong in all of this.......but the only way that we are going to fill the "holes" in the offseason that we have is through the 2009 draft and ( at most ) signing some 2009 FA to some $3-4 mil a year contract.


It's not.

You forgot another option.............. trades. I have said since last offseason that was the way the Pacers can get a PF. Signing a PF is out of the question in FA(maybe Brabdon Bass is a possibility), drafting one means waiting 3 years for development if you could get a good one, so the best viable option is trading for one.

Daniels with his team option and this years play might net a PF. Rasho or Jack's expiring or even Foster might get a PF. The Pacers have a few trading chips that could be used. If the right player was available, I wouldn't mind to see Hibbert traded.

CableKC
01-16-2009, 05:48 PM
It's not.

You forgot another option.............. trades. I have said since last offseason that was the way the Pacers can get a PF. Signing a PF is out of the question in FA(maybe Brabdon Bass is a possibility), drafting one means waiting 3 years for development if you could get a good one, so the best viable option is trading for one.
Unless we get back a 2008-2009 Expiring contract for either Rasho or Marquis....whoever we get back will count towards the 2009-2010 salary cap. Assuming that we resign Jack.....we would only have less then $6+ mil to spend on a total of 3-4 players before going over the 2009-2010 Luxury Tax. We wouldn't be able to acquire a player that is owed more then $3-4 mil in 2009-2010. Anyone that we get in a trade of Marquis or Rasho that would have a equivelent contract would put us over the 2009-2010 Luxury Tax.

This goes back to what count55 was saying and that I am trying to point out.....our options for any FA is going to be limited because the amount of $$$ that we can spend won't be as big as many of you think since we will be bumping right up against the Luxury Tax.


Daniels with his team option and this years play might net a PF. Rasho or Jack's expiring or even Foster might get a PF. The Pacers have a few trading chips that could be used. If the right player was available, I wouldn't mind to see Hibbert traded.
If I were to ignore the Salary Cap implications and all that I have mentioned above, what PF could we realistically get for an Expiring Contract like Marquis or even Rasho that won't push us over the 2009-2010 Luxury Tax threshold?

thunderbird1245
01-16-2009, 06:02 PM
You guys have failed to mention a couple of, in my mind, possibly key crucial acquisitions we can make in the free agent market that would both make us a MUCH better defensive team. We badly need at least one big time defensive player on the perimeter, in my opinion.

So, with that in mind, I think you have 2 options that I can think of without putting a huge amount of thought into it: Quinton Ross of Memphis (likely to be cheap) or Trevor Ariza of the Lakers.

We can sign Ross outright for peanuts if we so choose, no real other manuevering needed to bring him in.

If we decide to get the better, more athletic and much younger Trevor Ariza, we may have to get creative. Ariza in my judgment however would fit us like a glove, and I think he starts for us from day 1 opposite Granger. He can run the floor, he can lock people up defensively, he is athletic with long arms. He guards the opponents best player for us, leaving Granger to not need to do that. Ariza is tough and plays with a chip on his shoulder, and he is young enough to be a core building block for the next time the Pacers are true contenders in a year or 2 or 3.

To get Ariza, you are in my judgment maybe looking at a 3-4 year committment for about 5-6 million per year. In other words, some sort of sign/trade deal with a player like Foster would make sense, or maybe a Daniels if LA wanted to do that. Or we could use our mid level exception to sign him outright, and use Daniels declined option to pay for it, and still save a bit in 2009-2010.

Defense and toughness have to be what the Pacers look for in a free agent, along with youth and affordability and upside.

Tbird

CableKC
01-16-2009, 06:23 PM
You guys have failed to mention a couple of, in my mind, possibly key crucial acquisitions we can make in the free agent market that would both make us a MUCH better defensive team. We badly need at least one big time defensive player on the perimeter, in my opinion.

So, with that in mind, I think you have 2 options that I can think of without putting a huge amount of thought into it: Quinton Ross of Memphis (likely to be cheap) or Trevor Ariza of the Lakers.

We can sign Ross outright for peanuts if we so choose, no real other manuevering needed to bring him in.

If we decide to get the better, more athletic and much younger Trevor Ariza, we may have to get creative. Ariza in my judgment however would fit us like a glove, and I think he starts for us from day 1 opposite Granger. He can run the floor, he can lock people up defensively, he is athletic with long arms. He guards the opponents best player for us, leaving Granger to not need to do that. Ariza is tough and plays with a chip on his shoulder, and he is young enough to be a core building block for the next time the Pacers are true contenders in a year or 2 or 3.

To get Ariza, you are in my judgment maybe looking at a 3-4 year committment for about 5-6 million per year. In other words, some sort of sign/trade deal with a player like Foster would make sense, or maybe a Daniels if LA wanted to do that. Or we could use our mid level exception to sign him outright, and use Daniels declined option to pay for it, and still save a bit in 2009-2010.

Defense and toughness have to be what the Pacers look for in a free agent, along with youth and affordability and upside.

Tbird
TBird is back!!!! :dance:

It would seem that we need either a perimeter lockdown defender ( ie, Ross or Ariza ) or a Low-Post defensive presense that can block shots and provide some solid defense in the paint against opposing Big Men.

Although I would hedge my bets and suggest that we sign Ross ( instead of Graham ) for cheap and then try to sign the best Low-Post defending/scoring PF that we can player for $4mil a year....if we were forced to put all of our proverbial "eggs" in one basket ( as in get one or the other ), which would you go for.....a perimeter defender or a Low-Post Defender?

In other words, which is the greater "need" that we have to fill ( perimeter defense or Low-Post defense )?

naptownmenace
01-16-2009, 06:35 PM
Why should Q6 be gone? He is a very good defender. He can drive to the basket and score. His shot has improved. Keep in m ind Brandon has not panned out the way this organization thought he would.

You don't know that. I think he's played more than the organization thought he would.

If I had to choose between Quis and BRush, I'd stick with Brandon because I think he'll end up being the better player and he costs less.

Justin Tyme
01-16-2009, 08:07 PM
You guys have failed to mention a couple of, in my mind, possibly key crucial acquisitions we can make in the free agent market that would both make us a MUCH better defensive team. We badly need at least one big time defensive player on the perimeter, in my opinion.

So, with that in mind, I think you have 2 options that I can think of without putting a huge amount of thought into it: Quinton Ross of Memphis (likely to be cheap) or Trevor Ariza of the Lakers.

We can sign Ross outright for peanuts if we so choose, no real other manuevering needed to bring him in.

If we decide to get the better, more athletic and much younger Trevor Ariza, we may have to get creative. Ariza in my judgment however would fit us like a glove, and I think he starts for us from day 1 opposite Granger. He can run the floor, he can lock people up defensively, he is athletic with long arms. He guards the opponents best player for us, leaving Granger to not need to do that. Ariza is tough and plays with a chip on his shoulder, and he is young enough to be a core building block for the next time the Pacers are true contenders in a year or 2 or 3.

To get Ariza, you are in my judgment maybe looking at a 3-4 year committment for about 5-6 million per year. In other words, some sort of sign/trade deal with a player like Foster would make sense, or maybe a Daniels if LA wanted to do that. Or we could use our mid level exception to sign him outright, and use Daniels declined option to pay for it, and still save a bit in 2009-2010.

Defense and toughness have to be what the Pacers look for in a free agent, along with youth and affordability and upside.

Tbird


Not so long ago I mentioned Buckner and Ross as a lockdown defender late in games, and someone shot it down saying Buckner was long in the tooth and they had changed their mind about Ross. I thought it was you, but looking thru posts it wasn't. Maybe it was Count, I honestly don't remember.

I was piddling around looking for a PF to possibly trade for. I was trying to put together a trade idea salarywise when I got to looking at Damien Wilkins. I don't know that much about him other than I thought he was a SF or SG. When reading about him, it said he was a tuff defender, he's listed as a SF, can he play SG as well as SF? Is he that good of a defender when you need one?

vnzla81
01-16-2009, 10:06 PM
Free agents I would like to get.

To replace Marquis in the six men rotation I would like to get Ben gordon, his contract could be around 8mil a year, the pacers could also make a trade with chicago for him.

Another guy I like is Marvin Williams, he could also be around 8mil a year, who knows he is maybe the Robin to Batman(Danny)

Leon powe, another guy that is going to be asking around 3 to 4 mil big and strong.

Drew gooden, he is a really good Pf and he could be maybe asking 8mil, decent PF but I don't know about his defense for him to be undersize.

Brandon Bass, he is 6.8" but he plays bigger, likes to play up tempo, Rick is not letting him play because his is not fitting the half court offense, pacers could get him for around 4mil.

Linas Kleiza, he is a really good shooter and only 24 years old, also a big guy for his position 6.8", he is going to be asking like 5mil

Trevor ariza, really good player and he is also young, can shoot from outside and finish close to the rim 4mil

Lamar Odom, he is the one guy I like, the only way to get him is trough a sing and trade, he is making close to 13mil a year and he would be looking to make more in his new contract.

Charlie Villanueva, his numbers go up and down, really good PF can shoot the 3, (remember last time he killed the pacers) and is also young (24) and athletic, he would want and upgrade from the 4mil he is making, I say he would want around 7 to 8mil a year

David Lee, strong player rebounds and plays hard all the time, his number are good, the only problem is that he is playing for Mike D'antony 8mil

Kareem Rush, good defender and shooter and I would love to see him back playing with his brother 3mil. I would like for him to replace Graham

Matt Barnes, I like this guy, he is cheap, good defender and really good shooter, he is not a bad guy like some people say, this guy is the kind of defender the pacers need coming of the bench, he would be asking for 3 to 4mil

Channing Frye, he looks good at times, we could never know because he plays behind 3 or 4 players, he is restricted maybe 4 to 5mil


Jamario moon, really good player he is not making much money maybe 3mil a year

Paul Milsap, nice and strong PF his numbers are up since Carlos is been out, Utah seems like is going to keep him and let Detroit sign Boozer(just me saying) he is going to be asking for 10mil a year

Carlos Boozer, the best free agent of this class, not way the pacers would have the money to sign him, with teams like Miami and Detroit with enough cap space to sing him, I see him going to Detroit, playing with Stuckey,Hamilton, prince and Wallace, his contract is going to be around 15mil a year(80 to 85mil and five years)

This are the free agents that in my view the pacers should look at.

this web side has the rest of the free agents let me know what you think


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=FreeAgents-09-10

Updated: January 12, 2009, 10:04 AM ET
Free Agents: 2009 and 2010

owl
01-16-2009, 11:46 PM
You guys have failed to mention a couple of, in my mind, possibly key crucial acquisitions we can make in the free agent market that would both make us a MUCH better defensive team. We badly need at least one big time defensive player on the perimeter, in my opinion.

So, with that in mind, I think you have 2 options that I can think of without putting a huge amount of thought into it: Quinton Ross of Memphis (likely to be cheap) or Trevor Ariza of the Lakers.

We can sign Ross outright for peanuts if we so choose, no real other manuevering needed to bring him in.

If we decide to get the better, more athletic and much younger Trevor Ariza, we may have to get creative. Ariza in my judgment however would fit us like a glove, and I think he starts for us from day 1 opposite Granger. He can run the floor, he can lock people up defensively, he is athletic with long arms. He guards the opponents best player for us, leaving Granger to not need to do that. Ariza is tough and plays with a chip on his shoulder, and he is young enough to be a core building block for the next time the Pacers are true contenders in a year or 2 or 3.

To get Ariza, you are in my judgment maybe looking at a 3-4 year committment for about 5-6 million per year. In other words, some sort of sign/trade deal with a player like Foster would make sense, or maybe a Daniels if LA wanted to do that. Or we could use our mid level exception to sign him outright, and use Daniels declined option to pay for it, and still save a bit in 2009-2010.

Defense and toughness have to be what the Pacers look for in a free agent, along with youth and affordability and upside.

Tbird

Wurd on Ariza. I mentioned him in another thread the other day and he is exactly as
you described IMHO. The Pacers need to give up some offense for defense. That is the only
hope for this team. Do the Pacers give up a Dunleavy or Rush for him? I really like Ariza's
toughness. Get a PF in the draft if the Pacers are lucky.

count55
01-17-2009, 01:31 AM
I just scanned this, but was wondering if anybody bothered to mention that, with no increase in the salary cap, we probably will be looking for signings similar to the Diener/KRush/Graham summer...particularly if we re-sign Jack, as is likely.

...or do I have to be the little black rain cloud again?

Infinite MAN_force
01-17-2009, 01:52 AM
Yeah in all reality our offseason will end up consisting of a couple draftees and some end of the bench filler signings. There just isn't enough cash to go around... And as previously stated, I seriously doubt Granger, Rush, or Hibbert are going anywhere... and all the other valuable players we have are on long contracts... in other words, don't expect a big trade.

You all better get used to what your seeing on the court, cause thats what its gonna be for awhile.

CableKC
01-17-2009, 03:42 AM
I just scanned this, but was wondering if anybody bothered to mention that, with no increase in the salary cap, we probably will be looking for signings similar to the Diener/KRush/Graham summer...particularly if we re-sign Jack, as is likely.

...or do I have to be the little black rain cloud again?
count55, this is what happens when you skim through the thread.....read my posts in this thread ;)

I actually read and remember your posts.......if the Luxury Tax remains flat.....we're pretty much the only ones that realizes that we can't sign any FA that would likely get more then $4+ mil a year in the 2009-2010 Offseason. :rolleyes:

CableKC
01-17-2009, 03:53 AM
Free agents I would like to get.

To replace Marquis in the six men rotation I would like to get Ben gordon, his contract could be around 8mil a year, the pacers could also make a trade with chicago for him.

Another guy I like is Marvin Williams, he could also be around 8mil a year, who knows he is maybe the Robin to Batman(Danny)

Leon powe, another guy that is going to be asking around 3 to 4 mil big and strong.

Drew gooden, he is a really good Pf and he could be maybe asking 8mil, decent PF but I don't know about his defense for him to be undersize.

Brandon Bass, he is 6.8" but he plays bigger, likes to play up tempo, Rick is not letting him play because his is not fitting the half court offense, pacers could get him for around 4mil.

Linas Kleiza, he is a really good shooter and only 24 years old, also a big guy for his position 6.8", he is going to be asking like 5mil

Trevor ariza, really good player and he is also young, can shoot from outside and finish close to the rim 4mil

Lamar Odom, he is the one guy I like, the only way to get him is trough a sing and trade, he is making close to 13mil a year and he would be looking to make more in his new contract.

Charlie Villanueva, his numbers go up and down, really good PF can shoot the 3, (remember last time he killed the pacers) and is also young (24) and athletic, he would want and upgrade from the 4mil he is making, I say he would want around 7 to 8mil a year

David Lee, strong player rebounds and plays hard all the time, his number are good, the only problem is that he is playing for Mike D'antony 8mil

Kareem Rush, good defender and shooter and I would love to see him back playing with his brother 3mil. I would like for him to replace Graham

Matt Barnes, I like this guy, he is cheap, good defender and really good shooter, he is not a bad guy like some people say, this guy is the kind of defender the pacers need coming of the bench, he would be asking for 3 to 4mil

Channing Frye, he looks good at times, we could never know because he plays behind 3 or 4 players, he is restricted maybe 4 to 5mil


Jamario moon, really good player he is not making much money maybe 3mil a year

Paul Milsap, nice and strong PF his numbers are up since Carlos is been out, Utah seems like is going to keep him and let Detroit sign Boozer(just me saying) he is going to be asking for 10mil a year

Carlos Boozer, the best free agent of this class, not way the pacers would have the money to sign him, with teams like Miami and Detroit with enough cap space to sing him, I see him going to Detroit, playing with Stuckey,Hamilton, prince and Wallace, his contract is going to be around 15mil a year(80 to 85mil and five years)

This are the free agents that in my view the pacers should look at.

this web side has the rest of the free agents let me know what you think


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=FreeAgents-09-10

Updated: January 12, 2009, 10:04 AM ET
Free Agents: 2009 and 2010
FYI........there is no way that Gordon would accept a contract for $8 mil....he rejected a $9-10 mil a year / 5 year $50 mil Contract from the Bulls and becomes a UFA next offseason.

Assuming that we resign Jack.....with the amount of FA $$$ ( probably about $4 mil ) that we will likely have to spend on a FA next offseason on your list is Frye, KRush, Powe, or Bass.

Everyone else is going to be asking for more then we can afford.

If I had my way....my offseason would include resigning Jack and McRoberts, draft some Low-Post PF Shotblocking PF that can help defend the paint while making a run on Quinton Ross and Leon Powe as FAs. If Powe is not an option....then Frye would be my next choice.

cinotimz
01-17-2009, 04:21 AM
FYI........there is no way that Gordon would accept a contract for $8 mil....he rejected a $9-10 mil a year / 5 year $50 mil Contract from the Bulls and becomes a UFA next offseason.



I have no interest in Gordon from the Pacers perspective. However, I think Ben will have some serious regrets about turning down the Chicago deal-at least from a financial perspective. I dont think he gets an offer from Chicago or anyone else that approaches the offer last year.

Wouldnt be surprised if the best hes able to muster is a MLE deal. His best chance of doing any more than that is through a sign-and-trade, but I still believe it will be a far cry from last years offer.

Justin Tyme
01-17-2009, 06:54 AM
FYI........there is no way that Gordon would accept a contract for $8 mil....he rejected a $9-10 mil a year / 5 year $50 mil Contract from the Bulls and becomes a UFA next offseason.

Assuming that we resign Jack.....with the amount of FA $$$ ( probably about $4 mil ) that we will likely have to spend on a FA next offseason on your list is Frye, KRush, Powe, or Bass.

Everyone else is going to be asking for more then we can afford.

If I had my way....my offseason would include resigning Jack and McRoberts, draft some Low-Post PF Shotblocking PF that can help defend the paint while making a run on Quinton Ross and Leon Powe as FAs. If Powe is not an option....then Frye would be my next choice.



Resigning Graham as well.

I'd rather have Brandon Bass than Frye. I feel Bass has more upside to come and Frye has peaked out. He should be cheaper too.

vnzla81
01-17-2009, 07:28 AM
I have no interest in Gordon from the Pacers perspective. However, I think Ben will have some serious regrets about turning down the Chicago deal-at least from a financial perspective. I dont think he gets an offer from Chicago or anyone else that approaches the offer last year.

Wouldnt be surprised if the best hes able to muster is a MLE deal. His best chance of doing any more than that is through a sign-and-trade, but I still believe it will be a far cry from last years offer.

that is the reason why I have 8mil on gordon, because I don't think anybody is going to give him 10 mil or more a year, but who knows

vnzla81
01-17-2009, 07:33 AM
I know that the pacers won't have any cap space that is why I only have players that are going to be cheap, 3 to 8mil a year, I don't have any hopes in getting a guy like Boozer or Odom, I think the best for the pacers is to get young players to keep rebuilding, I also think that the best restricted free agent that the pacers could get for around 8mil is Williams from Atlanta, he is tall and strong and is also a young player to have with Danny for the future.

pacergod2
01-17-2009, 02:34 PM
A couple of things. You won't be able to sign-and-trade for an unrestricted FA. Anybody signed as a free agent can't be traded until December 15 (or three months, whichever is later).

Also, guys like Williams, who are restricted free agents are only a possibility for us in a sign-and-trade because we can't outright sign anyone to that large of a contract. I think Atlanta is looking to sign him to keep him, especially not for anyone on our team not named Granger. Marvin is just starting to come into his own at the NBA level.

I am a huge fan of signing Brandon Bass. I am sure everybody knows that already, but i think he fits EXACTLY what this team needs and he is within our budget. I do like the idea of Leon Powe as well. Both Dallas and Boston will have difficulty signing either of them (as someone already mentioned about Powe).

There are a lot of players who will be struggling to find contracts this year that will be willing to accept smaller deals for longer terms since there will be less money available. A lot of players will be happy to have "job security" in the NBA for a couple of years. This is the PERFECT time for teams like us to make waves signing free agents. We can't compete with the 2010 crowd even if we had the money and space to do so. This is our year to pluck about 2-3 key additions for our team going forward.

NashvilleKat
01-17-2009, 05:08 PM
Why should Q6 be gone? He is a very good defender. He can drive to the basket and score. His shot has improved. Keep in m ind Brandon has not panned out the way this organization thought he would.

Somebody stole Brandon Rush's mojo back around the first of December when we had to play Boston twice, plus the Lakers, Cleveland, Detroit, and Orlando in succession. He hasn't been the same since. I don't know if some of the arrogant superstars (like LeBron) ridiculed him under their breath on the floor when he missed those easy layups, or if one of our coach's got to him, or if he's just a rookie and realizing how good everyone is in the pros.

Brandon, if you're reading this, stop looking out the top of your eyes like a shy little puppy...man-up...lower your shoulder and drive to the basket, slam dunk the ball!!!...pop those threes when you're open, or whip a pass to the open man...pick and roll...play your game son!!!

You have all the tools...you're every bit as talented as Stuckey with the Pistons...you just have to step up and do it. We're all your fans Brandon, we want you to succeed. So do it man...do it for yourself, do it for your fans, do it for the Pacers! There's no room for shy and insecure in the NBA.

CableKC
01-17-2009, 08:58 PM
I know that the pacers won't have any cap space that is why I only have players that are going to be cheap, 3 to 8mil a year, I don't have any hopes in getting a guy like Boozer or Odom, I think the best for the pacers is to get young players to keep rebuilding, I also think that the best restricted free agent that the pacers could get for around 8mil is Williams from Atlanta, he is tall and strong and is also a young player to have with Danny for the future.
The only way that we will likely sign any player for more then $4+ mil a season is if we choose not to resign Jack next offseason. IF the Luxury Tax threshold remains flat ( as in pretty much the same as it is this season ), TPTB decide to resign Jack and we sign/resign some "end of the bench" players for cheap, then we simply do not have the Capspace to sign anyone for more then $4 mil.

cinotimz
01-17-2009, 09:03 PM
A couple of things. You won't be able to sign-and-trade for an unrestricted FA. Anybody signed as a free agent can't be traded until December 15 (or three months, whichever is later).



Actually, thats not true. Unrestricted free agents can be sign and traded. But it must be a sign-and-trade deal. What you cant do is sign a player and then immediately trade him as part of a different deal. The trade is part of the contract when the player signs the new deal.

vnzla81
01-17-2009, 09:10 PM
The only way that we will likely sign any player for more then $4+ mil a season is if we choose not to resign Jack next offseason. IF the Luxury Tax threshold remains flat ( as in pretty much the same as it is this season ), TPTB decide to resign Jack and we sign/resign some "end of the bench" players for cheap, then we simply do not have the Capspace to sign anyone for more then $4 mil.

If the pacers choose not to resign Marquis and Jack they would have enough money to get a guy like Williams, the other thing is that I don't think Atlanta would have the money to sign him if he is close to 8mil a year because they are already over the cap and need to resing Bibby and the year after they need to resign Joe Jhonson and Al horford and this guys are going to be asking big money, Jhonson is making 15mil right now and he will be looking for more than that close to 20mil a year and Al would be asking not less than 10mil a year, also if the pacers get lucky and trade tinsley for an expiring the would have more cap space(I don't think this could happen).

count55
01-17-2009, 09:57 PM
If the pacers choose not to resign Marquis and Jack they would have enough money to get a guy like Williams, the other thing is that I don't think Atlanta would have the money to sign him if he is close to 8mil a year because they are already over the cap and need to resing Bibby and the year after they need to resign Joe Jhonson and Al horford and this guys are going to be asking big money, Jhonson is making 15mil right now and he will be looking for more than that close to 20mil a year and Al would be asking not less than 10mil a year, also if the pacers get lucky and trade tinsley for an expiring the would have more cap space(I don't think this could happen).

No, they won't.

The most they could pay for any player is the full MLE, or roughly $6 mil to start.

Before they sign anybody, including Jack or Daniels, the Pacers will be at $57mm-ish against a $59mm cap. The hold for the 1st rounder will put us at the cap, leaving only the exception.

This has been discussed ad infinitum, ad nauseum over the past few months on this board.

CableKC
01-18-2009, 12:38 AM
No, they won't.

The most they could pay for any player is the full MLE, or roughly $6 mil to start.

Before they sign anybody, including Jack or Daniels, the Pacers will be at $57mm-ish against a $59mm cap. The hold for the 1st rounder will put us at the cap, leaving only the exception.

This has been discussed ad infinitum, ad nauseum over the past few months on this board.
count55, don't fret too much.... I think that I'm one of the few posters here on PD that pays attention to your posts regarding what the Pacers 2009-2010 SalaryCap situation is :rolleyes:.

jeffg-body
01-18-2009, 02:33 AM
I would be interested in Bass and Boozer. If good old Ronnie Atrest comes calling we need to start running. I personally would like to see another year of Rasho.

count55
01-18-2009, 09:40 AM
count55, don't fret too much.... I think that I'm one of the few posters here on PD that pays attention to your posts regarding what the Pacers 2009-2010 SalaryCap situation is :rolleyes:.

That's not fair on two counts: first many do, second, it comes up so often that most just cringe while waiting for me to bore them with the salary cap story.

It's like your Mother-in-law telling you about that time that Aunt Biddie blah, blah, blah, and that's why you should never trust what you hear on TV.

pacergod2
01-18-2009, 11:07 AM
I would say that there are many posters who are too wishful to WANT to listen.

PacerGuy
01-18-2009, 12:04 PM
That's not fair on two counts: first many do, second, it comes up so often that most just cringe while waiting for me to bore them with the salary cap story.

It's like your Mother-in-law telling you about that time that Aunt Biddie blah, blah, blah, and that's why you should never trust what you hear on TV.

I think it's more thike the saying:
"Don't concuse me w/ facts, my mind (or in this case "dreams") are made up!"

Count, PD will keep setting them (newbies) up, you just keep knock'n them down! ;)

FACTS RULE!!!

vnzla81
01-18-2009, 12:23 PM
No, they won't.

The most they could pay for any player is the full MLE, or roughly $6 mil to start.

Before they sign anybody, including Jack or Daniels, the Pacers will be at $57mm-ish against a $59mm cap. The hold for the 1st rounder will put us at the cap, leaving only the exception.

This has been discussed ad infinitum, ad nauseum over the past few months on this board.

Larry Bird is been saying that the owner told him, that if the team can sign a player or two that can put them on the top, they would pay the salary cap tax. I don't know why you guys don't know this already. Like I said before I am specting them to get a player with the MLE that is close to 6mil a year. You don't need to get upset every time people talk about getting this or that player, that is why we are writing here to learn from everybody. Thanks for your information and for making us understand the salary cap situation.

JayRedd
01-18-2009, 01:06 PM
I proposed that we trade Quis and Rasho for Boozer and Collins, as all four players are expirings and it would be interesting to see what Boozer brings to the table

How is life in Candyland?

Justin Tyme
01-18-2009, 02:09 PM
Larry Bird is been saying that the owner told him, that if the team can sign a player or two that can put them on the top, they would pay the salary cap tax. I don't know why you guys don't know this already.


Link please.

I can't speak for others, but this is the 1st I've heard about it.

Justin Tyme
01-18-2009, 02:33 PM
This has been discussed ad infinitum, ad nauseum over the past few months on this board.



I agree it gets grating at times.

The other day, for some odd reason, I looked at the the new members thread. What caught my attentention was that it wasn't just the middle of January and there were already 30 some new posters. Some of the new posters over the last few months probably haven't seen this discussed before. That still doesn't make it anyless frustrating, and even more frustrating when those that have been a member long enough to know what the Pacers have available to spend on a FA still continue propose getting FA that is not possible to acquire. I don't know what the answer is, but I understand your and others(including mine) everytime it comes up.

Maybe make a thread about it and bump it every 4 days, so it's available for newbies and others to read.

nerveghost
01-18-2009, 05:52 PM
can you do a "sticky thread"? - i run a message board and its just an easy way to keep info at the top. A locked post with all the trade and FA options for the Pacers in respect to salary cap guidelines. A "Know this before you post on Trades or FA".

I will respect the seasoned veterans on the board - if it really grates you to have these discussions, I recommend making this information readily available if you feel it will make discussions more productive. Otherwise, you can't fault people, specifically new members, for having these conversations- salary cap and FA expertise is beyond most Pacers fans.

CableKC
01-18-2009, 07:46 PM
can you do a "sticky thread"? - i run a message board and its just an easy way to keep info at the top. A locked post with all the trade and FA options for the Pacers in respect to salary cap guidelines. A "Know this before you post on Trades or FA".

I will respect the seasoned veterans on the board - if it really grates you to have these discussions, I recommend making this information readily available if you feel it will make discussions more productive. Otherwise, you can't fault people, specifically new members, for having these conversations- salary cap and FA expertise is beyond most Pacers fans.
I don't mind making a post pointing newer Board members to "said" thread whenever this comes up ( which I did in the 1st post in this thread that I made ) simply cuz it's not widely known that we have as much Cap Space as we think we have. I just have to :rolleyes: whenever posters choose to ignore said post.

Dr. Awesome
01-18-2009, 08:14 PM
Why should Q6 be gone? He is a very good defender. He can drive to the basket and score. His shot has improved. Keep in m ind Brandon has not panned out the way this organization thought he would.

We aren't even half the way through his rookie year. Assuming he already peaked is very premature.

vnzla81
01-18-2009, 08:55 PM
PACERS SALARIES FOR 09/10
I found this information on

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/indiana.htm


TROY MURPHY $11,047,619
MIKE DUNLEAVY $9,780,992
TJ FORD $8,500,000
MARQUIS DANIELS $7,350,000(TEAM OPTION)
JAMAAL TINSLEY $7,200,000
JEFF FOSTER $6,077,500
DANNY GRANGER $9,930,500
JARRETT JACK $2,899,798
BRANDON RUSH $1,934,160
TRAVIS DIENER $1,740,000
ROY HIBBERT $1,575,360

TOTAL: 57,786,131

RIGHT NOW TOTAL(08/09): $70,036,797

Lest say they don't claim the team option on Marquis $7,350,000. Is not that giving them another 7mil to sign a free agent? or some of you guys are asuming that the pacers are going to sing him for that ridiculous money? can somebody explaing this to me this please. I am trying to understand(remember I don't think the pacers are resigning marquis) If they have this kind of money(7mil of Marquis) could they still use the MLE?

Justin Tyme
01-18-2009, 09:15 PM
PACERS SALARIES FOR 09/10
I found this information on

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/indiana.htm


TROY MURPHY $11,047,619
MIKE DUNLEAVY $9,780,992
TJ FORD $8,500,000
MARQUIS DANIELS $7,350,000(TEAM OPTION)
JAMAAL TINSLEY $7,200,000
JEFF FOSTER $6,077,500
DANNY GRANGER $9,930,500
JARRETT JACK $2,899,798
BRANDON RUSH $1,934,160
TRAVIS DIENER $1,740,000
ROY HIBBERT $1,575,360

TOTAL: 57,786,131

RIGHT NOW TOTAL(08/09): $70,036,797

Lest say they don't claim the team option on Marquis $7,350,000. Is not that giving them another 7mil to sign a free agent? or some of you guys are asuming that the pacers are going to sing him for that ridiculous money? can somebody explaing this to me this please. I am trying to understand(remember I don't think the pacers are resigning marquis) If they have this kind of money(7mil of Marquis) could they still use the MLE?



Remember the MLE is for those teams that are over the cap. If a team is under the cap, it doesn't get the MLE. In answer to your question, the Pacers can use the MLE if they are over the cap. Ownership seems to not want to go over into LT Land (Luxury Tax) signing players. As you know, for every dollar over the LT ownership has to match a dollar, so they aren't inclined to go over the LT. If you signed a player for the MLE( 6 mil ) and 3mil was over the LT, that player really costs ownership 9mil.

Shamsports is a better source to use for salaries. It's more accurate than Hoopshype.

vnzla81
01-18-2009, 09:20 PM
Remember the MLE is for those teams that are over the cap. If a team is under the cap, it doesn't get the MLE. In answer to your question, the Pacers can use the MLE if they are over the cap. Ownership seems to not want to go over into LT Land (Luxury Tax) signing players. As you know, for every dollar over the LT ownership has to match a dollar, so they aren't inclined to go over the LT. If you signed a player for the MLE( 6 mil ) and 3mil was over the LT, that player really costs ownership 9mil.

Shamsports is a better source to use for salaries. It's more accurate than Hoopshype.

thanks for the info I have another question.
what about the salary of Daniels, Jack and Diener if the decided not to resing them? could they use that to sign a free agent?

count55
01-18-2009, 09:41 PM
thanks for the info I have another question.
what about the salary of Daniels, Jack and Diener if the decided not to resing them? could they use that to sign a free agent?

Diener is a player option, so the Pacers have no choice in the matter.

The short answer is "no". The expiring contracts don't matter, per se, only what your payroll is after they're gone.

It is possible for teams to have large expirings, yet still have no cap space after they expire. The Knicks have almost $29mm in expiring contracts, yet will still be more than $10mm over the cap next season.

Also, it's important that you realize that neither of the dollars listed for Daniels (team option) or Jack (qualifying offer) are included in the $58mm that Hoopshype is showing as a total payroll. They are placeholders only, and are not included in the calc.

cinotimz
01-18-2009, 11:30 PM
Sign me up for an MLE deal for RonRon. Maybe of the 3 year variety, with the 3rd year being a team option.

Im a bit intriqued by a lineup that features Granger, Dunleavy, and Ronron

Make it happen, Larry.