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vnzla81
01-14-2009, 12:44 PM
The Daily Dose: Houston grows weary of waiting on T-Mac
By David Aldridge, TNT analyst
Posted Jan 13 2009 6:55PM
http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/01/13/daily.dose.011309/index.html

A lot of times, one win is all you need to forget your troubles in the NBA. Two and you're rolling. Three, and it's, "Who dares to play us in the first round?"



But there are also times when a win streak is only a mirage, wet soap covering up hidden ugliness inside the window.

This is Houston. And, yes, they have a problem. (God, I hate using that old, tired, trite saying. Please, help me come up with another one. Like, "Houston, why didn't they base a high-ratings series on your town?" Or, "Houston, what do you do with the Astrodome these days?" Anything new would be greatly appreciated.)

The Rockets' recent uptick in play may have camouflaged their issues to those who aren't paying attention. But a season that began with such promise in the 713 is rapidly deteriorating. You get a gold star if you suspect Tracy McGrady is at the center of it all.

After limping and gimping around on his left knee through December, McGrady was put on a two- to three-week rehab assignment on Monday to improve his conditioning. "Conditioning" was the word the team used, deliberately so.

Now, in sports, you can be conditioning to rehabilitate a surgically-repaired part -- like, "Gilbert Arenas is still conditioning his knee." Or, there's conditioning when you're not in shape -- like, "David Aldridge is conditioning, and we hope he'll be able to finish the mile-and-a-half run sometime in the next decade."

So, which is it with McGrady?

"He's conditioning," Rockets GM Daryl Morey said Tuesday. "Tracy said it himself. He wants to do his off-season conditioning program. So that's what he's doing."

That's great. Except ... it's not the offseason.

"He couldn't do it in the offseason because of the (knee) surgery," Morey said.

If this were someone else, it probably wouldn't be that big of a deal. But it's McGrady, who disclosed on the Rockets' media day, four months after his May knee surgery, that the knee was about "75, 80 percent," and also said he would probably need shoulder surgery after the '08-09 season was over, despite having had that cleaned out in the offseason, too.

Hence, no offseason conditioning program.

The Rockets are putting a positive spin on this, but Waiting for Tracy is a play that nobody in Houston wants to see anymore -- up to and including the big man, Yao Ming.

"They don't speak," an extremely plugged-in person tells me. "And Yao wants him out."

That's not likely this season, as McGrady's $20.3 million is toxic to too many teams' luxury tax plans. Next summer, though, when McGrady will have an expiring, $22.4 million contract, teams may well circle the Rockets looking to make a deal.

It's not personal between Yao and McGrady. They like one another. But Yao's frustration is real. And Yao is not the only person that's grown tired of McGrady's self-diagnosis, his up-to-the-last-minute decisions on whether he'll play or not. This isn't questioning his toughness; McGrady took a bunch of pain-killing shots just to get through the first round of the playoffs. And it's unfair of anyone to judge McGrady on his ability to play well in pain; some can, some can't. Ron Artest wanted to keep playing on what the team is now calling a "stress reaction" in his ankle after gutting it out for a month, but he's been shut down for a week to 10 days.

And it's not McGrady's fault that Artest is hurt, just as Shane Battier has been hurt most of the season, or that these Rockets -- who were so resilient last season in winning 22 straight without Yao for a good chunk of that streak -- haven't shown much of that resolve.

But the sad irony is that McGrady has become Grant Hill, his former Orlando teammate who suffered through injury after injury after signing a huge, $93 million contract -- a physical deterioration that wore on McGrady's nerves as one Magic season after another was torched because of another Hill operation.

One veteran scout who worked a Rockets game recently was shocked by the deterioration in the still-29-year-old McGrady's game.

"I thought to myself, 'My God, he's old,'" the scout said. "It was amazing."

You need to know who you can count on, and the Rockets have no idea if they can count on McGrady anymore. When Coach Rick Adelman pointed out the elephant in the room late last week, the team had to act.

"The in-and-out was affecting the team," Morey said. "Rick wanted to put a definitive plan in place."

Morey allowed that there's "a lot of frustration" concerning McGrady.

"Everyone wants him to be where we know what he is capable of doing," Morey said. "I mean, he basically kept us in the Utah series (last year) ... both he and Ron were trying to fight their way through, probably coming back before they should. We were OK with that (before) because the doctors said they couldn't hurt it any more, which is still the case."

In the meantime, there's still a season going on, and the Rockets, seventh in the West entering play Tuesday, still have a role to play. Maybe McGrady still does, too, if his knee comes around. During training camp, McGrady said his doctors put full recovery from the May surgery at six months, which should have had him full strength in December. Maybe three weeks of offseason conditioning are what McGrady needs.

If not ...

"We'll cross that bridge when we come to it," Morey said.

Dece
01-14-2009, 12:49 PM
I don't see why anyone would want T-Mac, guy is just never healthy. Chronic back problems, among other things.

count55
01-14-2009, 12:55 PM
Now, hang on a second. Yao, who has missed 35% of his team's games over the past three years want McGrady, who has missed 25% of his team's games in the same time period, out because McGrady's missing games?

I'm not saying that McGrady is innocent, or that I don't understand the frustration from the Rockets. I'm just saying that I don't know that Yao is exactly standing on the moral high ground here.

vnzla81
01-14-2009, 01:01 PM
I would send Dunleavy, rasho and filler for him, Dunleavy contract runs for 3 more years when Tmac is only for two, who knows,the guy could be the second option with Danny improving every year, if I was the pacers I would take a look.

Will Galen
01-14-2009, 01:03 PM
T-Mack is actually one problem we luckily avoided several years ago. And now we have a better small forward them him.

The only Pacer I would want to trade for him is Tinsley and that doesn't work.

special ed
01-14-2009, 01:05 PM
I don't see why anyone would want T-Mac, guy is just never healthy. Chronic back problems, among other things.The same was kind of said of JO. There's always a sucker out there for that eternal "expiring contract" everyone is looking for.
The Knicks have Marbury's outrageous contract that could almost go straight up.

avoidingtheclowns
01-14-2009, 01:07 PM
the knicks might jump all over this if they can dump curry in the process.

duke dynamite
01-14-2009, 01:08 PM
Let's get him. He is a PR dream.

>_<

Major Cold
01-14-2009, 01:08 PM
the knicks might jump all over this if they can dump curry in the process.

When Yao gets hurt do you think that could happen?

Jonathan
01-14-2009, 01:10 PM
I would give up Tinsley, Diener, & Murphy

For him & Von Wafer

Houston might not but I would as Larry Bird.

Major Cold
01-14-2009, 01:13 PM
That trade is not even feasible. Our trash (in comparison folks) for their past treasure and their future treasure. Von would replace TMac if he was traded.

vnzla81
01-14-2009, 01:19 PM
detroit offered Hamilton and wallace for him last year and houston said not.:eek:. I would do it if houston get some of the big contracts. Murphy, Dunleavy,Tinsley or foster in return. the pacers starters would look like this
Pg: TJ
Sg: Tmac
Sf: Danny
Pf : Mc roberts
C: Hibbert

idioteque
01-14-2009, 01:20 PM
McGrady? Didn't you guys have your fill of overpaid stars when JO was on the team? I'd consider offering them the traditional poo-poo platter of Rasho, Daniels, and some other filler but they'd probably laugh.

King Tuts Tomb
01-14-2009, 01:32 PM
Houston would be smart to put TMac on the shelf every year until the last 25 games of the season then let him gear up for the playoffs. Use the Bob Sanders method and just put him our for meaningful games.

BRushWithDeath
01-14-2009, 01:59 PM
We don't have anything to get him with.

CableKC
01-14-2009, 02:04 PM
Ignoring that there is very little chance that the Pacers could actually get TMac......let's focus on the story itself.

To support what count55 has pretty much said......Yao ( the other Franchise Player on this team ) is as much culpable of being injured ( IF NOT as injured ) as TMac has been over the last 3 seasons...which has had a direct affect on the Rockets record. The only difference is that the Rockets don't have a real adequate replacement in the lineup on the offensive end for Yao ( Dikembe or Scola ) that they do with TMac ( Battier and Artest...both of which has missed at least 1/3 of the games this season ).

I get the sense that TMac is at the point in his career much like Ray Allen was with the Sonics before he was traded to the Celtics. He's still a top talent in the league that can be a major factor on the team more often then not but not one that is good enough ( due to age, health and "wear and tear" ) to carry a team on his own. If he was ever traded to some team in the next 2 seasons......I can see some team going after TMac as a 2nd All-Star to add to some other Franchise Player as a "final piece" for some Championsip push ( much like what Ainge did for the Celtics ).

But realistically.....the Rockets are in the same boat as we are......"here and there" injuries to the primary 4 key players ( Yao, Battier, TMac and Artest ) at various times throughout the season has hindered their ability to put together a consistent lineup and therefore show what they are truly capable of. Just like the Pacers, the Rockets FO really shouldn't consider making any major moves until they can see how a healthy lineup with the key players looks for a full month. On paper; a consistent rotation of Yao, Artest, TMac, Battier, Alston, Scola, Landry and whatever bench they have is a pretty solid lineup that could take them into the 2nd round if not Conference Finals ( if they are lucky ).

If this story has any legs and that Yao has voiced some concern regarding TMac, then I wouldn't be surprised if any such comments are grown more from frustration then any true desire to move him.

Major Cold
01-14-2009, 02:12 PM
We don't have anything to get him with.
We do, just not anymore than other teams. Expirings, picks, and prospects we have now.

Eindar
01-14-2009, 02:13 PM
I'd take him for Tinsley, Murphy, and filler :)

Anthem
01-14-2009, 02:20 PM
A lot of times, one win is all you need to forget your troubles in the NBA. Two and you're rolling. Three, and it's, "Who dares to play us in the first round?"
Heh. This is so true.

MillerTime
01-14-2009, 02:21 PM
hes too injured now. I wouldnt want him now

vnzla81
01-14-2009, 02:21 PM
I'd take him for Tinsley, Murphy, and filler :)

you would need to ad somebody that is going to fill Tmac place, like Dunleavy an expiring in rasho or marquis plus draft pick, I would take him over Dunleavy all they long

duke dynamite
01-14-2009, 02:24 PM
For McGrady, I would send Quis or Rasho. I really think I would...

Call me crazy...

vnzla81
01-14-2009, 02:25 PM
For McGrady, I would send Quis and Rasho. I really think I would...

Call me crazy...

I would too. can you imagine Danny and Tmac in the same team? ;)

Will Galen
01-14-2009, 03:18 PM
I would too. can you imagine Danny and Tmac in the same team? ;)

They play the same position, and if tmac doesn't work with Yao, what makes you think he would work with Danny?

Justin Tyme
01-14-2009, 03:23 PM
I would too. can you imagine Danny and Tmac in the same team? ;)


Yeah, Granger on the court playing and T-Mac not on the court with an injury. I've seen enough of that over the last 4 years in JO, Tinsley, Daniels, and Dunleavy to not want to see it continue. No thanx pass!

avoidingtheclowns
01-14-2009, 03:25 PM
When Yao gets hurt do you think that could happen?

the rockets have yao and mutombo as their C rotation. they also go really small by giving scola some minutes there - so there may be some interest.

ultimately i haven't watched the rockets enough to know what they're missing or what they need right now. not counting TMac, they've got:

Alston / Brooks / Head
Battier / Barry / Wafer
Artest / Hayes
Scola / Landry / Dorsey
Yao / Mutombo

so it seems they might be looking for help in the frontcourt and help on the wing.

not to make this a trade thread but something along the lines of QRich, Curry, 2nd Rounder for TMac might work.

Roaming Gnome
01-14-2009, 03:29 PM
:potkettle:
****Yao *************** T-Mac

DGPR
01-14-2009, 05:01 PM
I would make a move for him because if nothing else, you have a large trading chip starting this summer. Teams would be lining up to be able to pick up a $20 million expiring contract.

vnzla81
01-14-2009, 05:05 PM
I would make a move for him because if nothing else, you have a large trading chip starting this summer. Teams would be lining up to be able to pick up a $20 million expiring contract.

thank you.............:highfive:

count55
01-14-2009, 05:33 PM
Could somebody make a case as to why T-Mac, the 2009 version, is any better than Dunleavy?

vnzla81
01-14-2009, 05:49 PM
Could somebody make a case as to why T-Mac, the 2009 version, is any better than Dunleavy?

Tmac with one leg is way better than Dunleavy, I like Dun but come on, is this a serious question?

Doddage
01-14-2009, 06:07 PM
Not only do we not have the pieces that we're willing to give up for T-Mac that the Rockets would take, but I also don't think it's a good idea for him to be on this team. It would hinder Granger's progress as T-Mac would want some offense himself, and it wouldn't make us any more competitive. With that said, I'd love to have him for his contract, but again, refer to the first point I made.

I do think that an ideal spot for him to land is Toronto, if they can string up a package that would spark Houston's interest.

Roaming Gnome
01-14-2009, 06:16 PM
Tmac with one leg is way better than Dunleavy, I like Dun but come on, is this a serious question?

I think the shine has come off of T-Mac's star a long time ago. Anyway, outside of this one time that Dun has been hurt in his career, T-mac has proven that he is the true meaning of being injury prone! When you compare the fact that you just can't depend on T-mac.... I'd rather have Dunleavy over T-mac.

Pacerized
01-14-2009, 07:44 PM
I'd do it but only if it centered around Tinsley. Tinsely, Murphy, and Baston would work.
The only way they find a taker is with a team that's targeting the 2010 free agency.

count55
01-14-2009, 08:34 PM
Tmac with one leg is way better than Dunleavy, I like Dun but come on, is this a serious question?

Yes, it's a serious question.

I'm curious as to how much of an improvement a player who is currently averaging 15.4 points on .388 shooting is going to be over a guy who's averaged 16.5 points on .463 shooting since returning from his injury. Their rebounding numbers are similar, though McGrady gets more assists.

I'm also hesitant about a player who has these statements made about him:


If this were someone else, it probably wouldn't be that big of a deal. But it's McGrady, who disclosed on the Rockets' media day, four months after his May knee surgery, that the knee was about "75, 80 percent," and also said he would probably need shoulder surgery after the '08-09 season was over, despite having had that cleaned out in the offseason, too.

...

But the sad irony is that McGrady has become Grant Hill, his former Orlando teammate who suffered through injury after injury after signing a huge, $93 million contract -- a physical deterioration that wore on McGrady's nerves as one Magic season after another was torched because of another Hill operation.

One veteran scout who worked a Rockets game recently was shocked by the deterioration in the still-29-year-old McGrady's game.

"I thought to myself, 'My God, he's old,'" the scout said. "It was amazing."

And, far more haunting to any Pacer fan with a memory longer than a week:


You need to know who you can count on, and the Rockets have no idea if they can count on McGrady anymore. When Coach Rick Adelman pointed out the elephant in the room late last week, the team had to act.

"The in-and-out was affecting the team," Morey said. "Rick wanted to put a definitive plan in place."

Morey allowed that there's "a lot of frustration" concerning McGrady.

So, he's playing poorly, he's missed 25% of his team's games the last three seasons, and they don't know whether he'll play from game to game, or when he'll finally be healthy. Does that sound familiar to at all?

Also, what offer would we make that Houston would take? If we trade Rasho and Quis, then that will guarantee that we will go skyrocketing past the luxury tax threshold next year.

He doesn't help our defense. He doesn't help fill our gaps on the interior.

It is possible that making a trade for McGrady might be the right thing to do. However, I think there are serious questions about him. I would like to be convinced.

Now, I've outlined my reasoning on why I asked the question, and why I was serious about it.

Do you have a serious answer?

maragin
01-14-2009, 09:13 PM
I don't see why anyone would want T-Mac

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skyfire
01-14-2009, 09:14 PM
If you could move Tins and Murphy for Tmac it could be a good transitional move, even if you let Tmac sit out for the rest of this season. Because of his huge expiring in 2010 contract it could be a good trading chip. Still I dont see why Houston would do it, even if Yao is complaining.

vnzla81
01-14-2009, 10:14 PM
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yeah Tmac is so bad. I rather have Dunleavy :rolleyes:
the only way houston trades him is if they get a shooter(Dunleavy) an expiring(rasho,jack,marquis) and draft picks. Count55 I like Dunleavy also but you can't tell me that Dunleavy is better than Tmac, I know he is been hurt all year, Dunleavy is been hurt too, the other thing you need to see is if a trade like this does not work the pacers still get an expiring contract next year and could be in good shape for 2010, every time I talk about trades or things like that I see both sides, and what the other teams need and what the pacers need. There is not risk for the pacers in taking a guy like that.

Kid Minneapolis
01-14-2009, 11:21 PM
Now, hang on a second. Yao, who has missed 35% of his team's games over the past three years want McGrady, who has missed 25% of his team's games in the same time period, out because McGrady's missing games?

I'm not saying that McGrady is innocent, or that I don't understand the frustration from the Rockets. I'm just saying that I don't know that Yao is exactly standing on the moral high ground here.

Exactly. Can't believe you're the only other one to catch this. Was thinking it the entire time I was reading the article. Yao isn't exactly one to talk on the subject of missed time.

Anthem
01-15-2009, 02:18 AM
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I saw that live. It was insane.

Unfortunately that player doesn't exist any more. And even the one that's still around can't be acquired for Murphy and Tinsley.

GrangerRanger
01-15-2009, 03:37 AM
Hey Pot. Yeah, this is the kettle. Your black.

Seriously, Yao has no right to be mad at someone because they are injury prone.

ABADays
01-15-2009, 10:26 AM
I don't want T-Mac here. I look at our situation with JO and the Pistons with Iverson and I just don't want it.

clownskull
01-15-2009, 03:20 PM
i agree with anthem on both points. that tmac doesn't exist anymore nor could you get the inferior version with tinsley and murphy. then the fact that he can be counted on to break down so often- no thanks. when i hear about the whole thing of where no one knows game to game if he will play or not- i just cringe. i have had more than my fill of those types of players. i am totally not interested in the dude on this team. we need guys who can play.

and speaking of guys who can play- i am grateful dun came back when he did. because quis lasted just long enough for him to make it back. i am also not interested in resigning quis next year since he can never stay healthy for long. 8 games missed already and i suspect he will miss at least that many more the rest of this season. probably 20+ which is about average for him.

PR07
01-15-2009, 05:45 PM
I just don't think TMac improves the team much. What this team needs is defense and low post scoring. TMac offers neither.

BKK
01-15-2009, 06:45 PM
no thanks for TMac except is they take our big contracts a la Murphy and even in this case I'm not certain I would

thinking more abt it I'd rather go after Ron Ron actually

yes I said it :devil:

Kid Minneapolis
01-15-2009, 10:52 PM
I like TMac, think he had an incredible stretch a few years ago where he was a top 2-3 player in the league. It definitely seems his physical condition has deteriorated, probly due to the fact that he came outta high school and has logged a lot of basketball in his 29 years. 3-4 years ago, I woulda loved to have TMac. Even now, I'd take him, but I also realize he's not quite the same player he used to be, and ya he is very injury-prone.

It just happens. He was phenomenal in his prime.

cinotimz
01-15-2009, 11:38 PM
If Houston would take Tinsley, Daniels and either Rasho, Dunleavy, or Murphy I would do it in a heartbeat. You fix at least one of your bad contracts and possibly two if they take Duns or Murphy. And you have a huge expiring to work with next year. Not to mention you end up with Granger and McGrady on the wing. And if McGrady is hurt we still have depth to cover for it.

Make it happen, Larry.

count55
01-15-2009, 11:46 PM
yeah Tmac is so bad. I rather have Dunleavy :rolleyes:
the only way houston trades him is if they get a shooter(Dunleavy) an expiring(rasho,jack,marquis) and draft picks. Count55 I like Dunleavy also but you can't tell me that Dunleavy is better than Tmac, I know he is been hurt all year, Dunleavy is been hurt too, the other thing you need to see is if a trade like this does not work the pacers still get an expiring contract next year and co

uld be in good shape for 2010, every time I talk about trades or things like that I see both sides, and what the other teams need and what the pacers need. There is not risk for the pacers in taking a guy like that.

Well, a three or four year old highlight and a smiley isn't what I'd consider a serious answer.

The guy is scheduled to make $20.4mm this year, and $22.5mm next...we'd basically be re-acquiring JO. Any even vaguely realistic deal would involve one or both of Rasho and Daniels, along with probably Dunleavy. The contract situations are such that most of the scenarios would put us over the luxury tax next season, a good number of them would put us over the tax this season, costing us millions more dollars.

Unless we somehow get them to take Murphy and Tinsley, the expiring deal is of dubious value to the Pacers. Assuming the deal just sends Dunleavy and expirings, then we're still committed to almost $50mm in contracts on only 7 players going into the 2010 Free Agent market. We won't be a player.

If you're thinking that teams will kill for the huge expiring, I simply point you to Stephon Marbury. The contract is too big. The team trading him away would have to take too much in contracts back to make the deal worth their while.

While a number of your contentions could be right, the statement about there being no risk to the Pacers in this deal is absolutely wrong. There are a number of ways that a Tracy McGrady deal could go horribly wrong for the Pacers.

There is no question that Tracy McGrady was a better basketball player than Mike Dunleavy. However, I'm not convinced that it's true today, and even if he was, I'm not convinced that he's going to be a big enough upgrade to put us back into the cap hell that we've just barely left. (As to the injuries, prior to this season, Junior had missed a grand total of 9 games in six years. Over the same time frame, McGrady had missed 88.)

And, once again, the only thing that he definitely does for us is sell more jerseys. He doesn't help with the defense. He doesn't provide a post presence. He doesn't make us physically stronger.

cinotimz
01-17-2009, 04:39 AM
The guy is scheduled to make $20.4mm this year, and $22.5mm next...we'd basically be re-acquiring JO.
Unless we somehow get them to take Murphy and Tinsley, the expiring deal is of dubious value to the Pacers.
If you're thinking that teams will kill for the huge expiring, I simply point you to Stephon Marbury. The contract is too big. The team trading him away would have to take too much in contracts back to make the deal worth their while.


You may be onto something. Assuming JO is still in Toronto this summer and Murphy and Tins are still on the Pacers roster, Pacers should offer Murphy and Tins plus filler for JO.

I think JOs deal wouldnt be as restrictive as Marburys. The reason Marbury isnt being picked up isnt as much about ability and contract as it is about personality and the cancer label.

The funny part is you have to wonder how Toronto would feel about that sort of deal right now. Cept for the fact JO cant come here right now. They might actually be willing to do a deal close to that right now, considering their current situation. Of course thats avoiding the egg-on-your-face issues Colangelo would have.

Wage
01-17-2009, 05:17 AM
I would make a move for him because if nothing else, you have a large trading chip starting this summer. Teams would be lining up to be able to pick up a $20 million expiring contract.

Obviously. I mean, the Knicks have had to board up the doors with all the people trying to get Starbury.

When will people understand that expiring contracts (when used as that term, meaning not considering the player they are attached to) have negative trade value, not positive?

YoSoyIndy
01-17-2009, 12:34 PM
You may be onto something. Assuming JO is still in Toronto this summer and Murphy and Tins are still on the Pacers roster, Pacers should offer Murphy and Tins plus filler for JO.

I think JOs deal wouldnt be as restrictive as Marburys. The reason Marbury isnt being picked up isnt as much about ability and contract as it is about personality and the cancer label.

The funny part is you have to wonder how Toronto would feel about that sort of deal right now. Cept for the fact JO cant come here right now. They might actually be willing to do a deal close to that right now, considering their current situation. Of course thats avoiding the egg-on-your-face issues Colangelo would have.


The salary cap is declining, so acquiring huge expiring contracts aren't as valuable as they once were.

There is no reason to acquire a huge contract that expires in 2010 unless we're giving up contracts that go through 2011.

Anthem
01-17-2009, 12:38 PM
You may be onto something. Assuming JO is still in Toronto this summer and Murphy and Tins are still on the Pacers roster, Pacers should offer Murphy and Tins plus filler for JO.
Why? Toronto got Jermaine for the cap space. Trading for Jermaine is their equivalent of Detroit trading for Iverson.

YoSoyIndy
01-17-2009, 05:09 PM
Why? Toronto got Jermaine for the cap space. Trading for Jermaine is their equivalent of Detroit trading for Iverson.

But Toronto didn't know at the time that the salary cap was going to drop like it is. And doesn't AI's contract end after this season?

cinotimz
01-17-2009, 08:55 PM
The salary cap is declining, so acquiring huge expiring contracts aren't as valuable as they once were.

There is no reason to acquire a huge contract that expires in 2010 unless we're giving up contracts that go through 2011.

Refresh me on when Murphy and Tinsley's contracts expire. Last time I checked they both expire in 2011.

cinotimz
01-17-2009, 08:59 PM
Why? Toronto got Jermaine for the cap space. Trading for Jermaine is their equivalent of Detroit trading for Iverson.

Dont really think its nearly the same thing. They traded for JO when he had 2 full years left on his contract. And 2 of the 3 guys they traded in return had one year left. Detroit got Iverson when he had months left on his deal.

YoSoyIndy
01-17-2009, 10:07 PM
Refresh me on when Murphy and Tinsley's contracts expire. Last time I checked they both expire in 2011.

Obviously we'd trade Murphy and Tinsley for McGrady. David Stern might wonder what went under the table to make that trade happen.

cinotimz
01-17-2009, 10:43 PM
Obviously we'd trade Murphy and Tinsley for McGrady. David Stern might wonder what went under the table to make that trade happen.

If you are saying that you dont think Houston would do the deal, then I would concur. You would have to throw in Rasho or Daniels to probably make it work, and again I dont think they would do that. They would probably also want a #1 and or Rush to even consider it and that might be the beginning of the end.

Wonder what it would take to get Artest from them. Daniels and what?

YoSoyIndy
01-17-2009, 10:49 PM
If you are saying that you dont think Houston would do the deal, then I would concur. You would have to throw in Rasho or Daniels to probably make it work, and again I dont think they would do that. They would probably also want a #1 and or Rush to even consider it and that might be the beginning of the end.

Wonder what it would take to get Artest from them. Daniels and what?

Are you just asking hypothetically, or would you actually want to bring Ron back to the Pacers?

cinotimz
01-17-2009, 11:03 PM
Are you just asking hypothetically, or would you actually want to bring Ron back to the Pacers?

Maybe a bit of both. If there is a sudden committment to win as many games as is possible and try to make the playoffs, then Artest for about 40 games would probably help that far more than Daniels or a number of guys. Put him alongside Danny at the forward slots, TJ and Duns in the backcourt and then you have Murphy, Foster or Hibbert and the center position.

He expires this year, as does Daniels. With JO, Jack, Cro, Tins, Johnson, Harrington, etc all gone, I actually dont think there would be any significant issues in the lockerroom. Especially since hes in a contract year and got along quite well with Granger.

Now, Im pretty certain Larry would not necessarily share my optimism. Though I personally believe that Ron would be received back much differently from the fans than JO, Tins, Jack, etc.

But again, thats just my opinion.