PDA

View Full Version : Hibbert/Speights/Koufus



Jonathan
01-14-2009, 10:47 AM
If you had the chance to go back to draft day which one of these three would have you drafted? Has your thoughts changed

Quis
01-14-2009, 10:52 AM
Speights, no questions asked. It was clear he was a stud from the get-go. He does just about everything you ask out of a big man, and he does it all at a high level with the potential for greatness.

BKK
01-14-2009, 10:57 AM
it depends which pick you're refering to, if it was our 17th, the problem is Speights got picked one position ahead of Roy so we did not really have the chance on him. which brings us to a Kosta-Roy game (once again with our pick) and I ll go with Roy. Now if we had the choice overall between the 3 of them whatever our pick was I think I'd still go with ROy, he's showed good signs of improvement and I'm sure he'll contribute sooner than later especially if given time and chance

Spirit
01-14-2009, 11:18 AM
Hibbert

Shade
01-14-2009, 11:21 AM
Speights was who I wanted from the beginning. I'd like to think we would have been smart enough to take him had he still been on the board.

Of course, we probably would have just traded him for Hibbert and cash, anyway... :grumble:

duke dynamite
01-14-2009, 11:21 AM
I'm happy with who we have in Roy Hibbert.

Justin Tyme
01-14-2009, 11:34 AM
Speights w/o a doubt. He was who I wanted with the Pacers 1st pick, and he was available. Unfortunately, Bird didn't pick him, and went with Bayless who he traded for Rush. With the 17th pick, I wanted Courtney Lee even thou some think that was too high of a pick for him. I disagree.

I never wanted Koufus as a Pacer.

Roaming Gnome
01-14-2009, 11:46 AM
This would be more interested if Speights would have dropped to our 2nd selection.

Shade
01-14-2009, 11:49 AM
This would be more interested if Speights would have dropped to our 2nd selection.

The only reason I wasn't that upset with the Hibbert selection is because Speights was already gone. And because we didn't take Koufos.

Major Cold
01-14-2009, 11:51 AM
Speights w/o a doubt. He was who I wanted with the Pacers 1st pick, and he was available. Unfortunately, Bird didn't pick him, and went with Bayless who he traded for Rush. With the 17th pick, I wanted Courtney Lee even thou some think that was too high of a pick for him. I disagree.

I never wanted Koufus as a Pacer.
I wanted this as well. Either Lee or Chalmers. But Lee is producing better than Rush in Orlando.

dohman
01-14-2009, 11:56 AM
Roy has been stepping his game up here as of late. Once he can get his fouls under control and his minutes go up watch his numbers soar.

count55
01-14-2009, 12:00 PM
The only reason I wasn't that upset with the Hibbert selection is because Speights was already gone. And because we didn't take Koufos.

This

Justin Tyme
01-14-2009, 12:11 PM
I wanted this as well. Either Lee or Chalmers. But Lee is producing better than Rush in Orlando.


I wanted Chalmers as well, and wanted Bird to get one of either Minnie, Seattle, or Portland 1st 2nd round picks to get Chalmers. I was furious that Bird didn't get the 2nd from Portland in the trade. I felt he dropped the ball.

Major Cold
01-14-2009, 12:15 PM
I think Portland knew that Ike was going to be nothing in this league (wonder what gave them that idea). I would rather have Chalmers with the 17 and Moute with a second rounder. Defensively he is what this team needs at the wing.

Jonathan
01-14-2009, 01:04 PM
I have been suprised with the play of Koufus. It would be interesting to see his numbers if he was not playing in Nellie's system.

idioteque
01-14-2009, 01:16 PM
Speights, again, no questions asked. I wanted him from the get-go.

But wasn't he picked one pick before us? I remember that being the case and being really aggravated.

Hicks
01-14-2009, 01:21 PM
I have been suprised with the play of Koufus. It would be interesting to see his numbers if he was not playing in Nellie's system.

:huh:

Jonathan
01-14-2009, 01:55 PM
:huh:

Kofus plays with Utah. I mixed up the teams that have beaten us the last two games. He is a better rebounder and more aggressive than I thought he would be. I was picturing as finesse like big man aka Bruno Sundov.

BRushWithDeath
01-14-2009, 02:03 PM
Koufus is far and away the worst of the bunch.

Anthem
01-14-2009, 02:13 PM
Did anybody want Speights at 13?

After watching him play, I could definitely see somebody making that case. But it was widely rumored that he'd be available at #17... Bird might have been planning on getting him with Toronto's pick.

count55
01-14-2009, 02:20 PM
Did anybody want Speights at 13?

After watching him play, I could definitely see somebody making that case. But it was widely rumored that he'd be available at #17... Bird might have been planning on getting him with Toronto's pick.

Well, I had wanted Speights at 11 and either Rush or Chalmers at 17, IIRC.

I'm OK with the way we went, and but I can't say with any certainty whether Bird would've drafted Speights at 17, or if Hibbert was his target.

CableKC
01-14-2009, 02:23 PM
Until I see Hibbert play more consistent minutes and since I have no clue whether Speights has the necessary Basketball IQ to play in JO'Bs offense/defense.....then I will reluctantly choose Hibbert ( for now ).

I know that Speights has the necessary athleticsm, low-post skills and length to play as the type of Center that JO'B likes to have on his team......but I don't know if he has the necessary smarts to be effective in JO'Bs defense. If he does, then yes....by all means...I would want Speights over Hibbert.

But if he's a super atheltic PF/C that can jump out of the gym, block shots and dunk the ball but doesn't have the smarts to properly understand, implement and therefore be effective in JO'Bs system.....then I wouldn't want him simply cuz talent can only take you so far in JO'Bs defense.

Unfortunately, one of the key reasons why I think that Bird drafted Hibbert and BRush is because a key requirement of any player that we have in our rotation is that THEY MUST be smart enough to understand what JO'B wants them to do when they are on the floor. If we have a player that doesn't have the necessary Basketball IQ, they will look as lost as Diogu was last season on defense...and if you can't be effective on both ends of the floor....then you won't get minutes under JO'B.

MillerTime
01-14-2009, 03:12 PM
Speights, no questions asked. It was clear he was a stud from the get-go. He does just about everything you ask out of a big man, and he does it all at a high level with the potential for greatness.

x2

Mr. Sobchak
01-14-2009, 03:35 PM
Two points:

1. Skilled centers are harder to find than power fowards.

2. Did anyone really expect the P's to take Speights at 11?

FWIW I wanted Hickson at 17 but I'm happy with what we have. Its easy to play monday morning quarterback.

Justin Tyme
01-14-2009, 03:48 PM
Until I see Hibbert play more consistent minutes and since I have no clue whether Speights has the necessary Basketball IQ to play in JO'Bs offense/defense.....then I will reluctantly choose Hibbert ( for now ).

I know that Speights has the necessary athleticsm, low-post skills and length to play as the type of Center that JO'B likes to have on his team......but I don't know if he has the necessary smarts to be effective in JO'Bs defense. If he does, then yes....by all means...I would want Speights over Hibbert.

But if he's a super atheltic PF/C that can jump out of the gym, block shots and dunk the ball but doesn't have the smarts to properly understand, implement and therefore be effective in JO'Bs system.....then I wouldn't want him simply cuz talent can only take you so far in JO'Bs defense.

Unfortunately, one of the key reasons why I think that Bird drafted Hibbert and BRush is because a key requirement of any player that we have in our rotation is that THEY MUST be smart enough to understand what JO'B wants them to do when they are on the floor. If we have a player that doesn't have the necessary Basketball IQ, they will look as lost as Diogu was last season on defense...and if you can't be effective on both ends of the floor....then you won't get minutes under JO'B.



Seriously, do you really think that Hibbert was drafted to play in JO'B's system? If it takes him the same amount of time as it did Smits or even close to become what many feel he can, O'Brien won't be the coach. I'll go on record saying O'Brien won't be given an extension on his contract. If this team continues the same way it has been through the rest of the season, I don't see O'Brien as the coach next year. What would be the purpose of having a re-run season next year?

What many aren't taking into consideration is that Bird's contract is up next season too. Thus he has to produce, at least next year, or his career as a Pacer GM is over. Many people, including myself, view JO'B'S hiring as only an interim coach. The same can be said about Bird as GM. JMOAA

BillS
01-14-2009, 04:59 PM
You do realize that if we'd have taken Koufus the post-draft headline would have been about Shade flinging himself from the upper level of the Fieldhouse, right? I mean, trading Bayless and drafting Koufus, together...

count55
01-14-2009, 05:01 PM
You do realize that if we'd have taken Koufus the post-draft headline would have been about Shade flinging himself from the upper level of the Fieldhouse, right? I mean, trading Bayless and drafting Koufus, together...

The only advantage I saw in taking Koufos would be to de-emphasize Troy Murphy's nose.

Will Galen
01-14-2009, 06:23 PM
Many people, including myself, view JO'B'S hiring as only an interim coach. The same can be said about Bird as GM. JMOAA

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Bird wasn't hired as an interim GM, he isn't going anywhere unless he wants to!

Spirit
01-14-2009, 06:35 PM
I wanted Chalmers as well, and wanted Bird to get one of either Minnie, Seattle, or Portland 1st 2nd round picks to get Chalmers. I was furious that Bird didn't get the 2nd from Portland in the trade. I felt he dropped the ball.Chalmers got in trouble at the rookie camp thing, so if we had taken him, and that happened, we probably wouldn't have kept him anyway since we are trying to avoid troublemakers.

Spirit
01-14-2009, 06:36 PM
The only advantage I saw in taking Koufos would be to de-emphasize Troy Murphy's nose.
:laugh:

CableKC
01-14-2009, 06:39 PM
Seriously, do you really think that Hibbert was drafted to play in JO'B's system? If it takes him the same amount of time as it did Smits or even close to become what many feel he can, O'Brien won't be the coach. I'll go on record saying O'Brien won't be given an extension on his contract. If this team continues the same way it has been through the rest of the season, I don't see O'Brien as the coach next year. What would be the purpose of having a re-run season next year?

What many aren't taking into consideration is that Bird's contract is up next season too. Thus he has to produce, at least next year, or his career as a Pacer GM is over. Many people, including myself, view JO'B'S hiring as only an interim coach. The same can be said about Bird as GM. JMOAA
Assuming that there is a greater chance that JO'B will be our Coach for the next season or two, given the requirement that JO'Bs system that we have smart players that can properly understand/implement it and assuming that Speights doesn't have the necessary Basketball IQ to be effective in JO'Bs system, then yes....I think that one of the reasons why Bird drafted Hibbert was because of his Basketball IQ along with the fact that you can't teach size nor do True Centers come along very often.

I'm not going to second-guess whether JO'B was brought in as an interim Coach or not....I can only go with the assumption that he will be kept for the duration of his contract.

If in fact JO'B is let go after this season, I really do hope that we sign a Coach that run an offense/defense that players like Hibbert and BRush can excel in.

Anthem
01-14-2009, 07:32 PM
assuming that Speights doesn't have the necessary Basketball IQ to be effective in JO'Bs system
What makes you think that's a valid assumption? I mean the kid's no Rhodes scholar, but he's not a box of rocks either.

MyFavMartin
01-14-2009, 07:45 PM
Speights.

I'm happy with the Rush pick though I really wanted to keep Bayless. I can see that converting Bayless to a PG might have been a project that was going to take time and might not work. (Foye in Minnesota is an example of this that when he was put back to his natural position of SG, he has flourished.) Long term, Rush is a very good pick with tremendous potential on both ends of the court. I don't think Rush would have lasted to #17 as the rumor was Phoenix really liked him at #13.

Speights was gone at #16. Yeah, it would have been nice if he was there at #17, but the Pacers had a nice draft night.

I'd rather go with the best player available rather than the best player for your coach's system. This team really lacks a strong defensive, athletic post presence and Speights could be that. Hibbert could as well and a combination of Rush, Hibbert, and Granger is a good young core to build for the future.

Our needs at PG were addressed through trades so I am content with Ford, Jack, and Diener.

Bird reported the cost of getting a 3rd 1st rounder in the 20s was going to be too costly. Hence, the Pacers weren't able to get a Chlamers or Arthur.

I think adding McGee to this debate would have been better than Koufos.

The question is Roy going to be more like a Rasho or Vlade or Robinson?

Stay tuned for the next couple years and we will find out. Still too early to grade the results of the draft. Obviously, Speights looks very good right now compared to Roy.

CableKC
01-14-2009, 07:49 PM
What makes you think that's a valid assumption? I mean the kid's no Rhodes scholar, but he's not a box of rocks either.
In my earlier post, I mentioned that I didn't know whether he had the necessary Basketball IQ or not........simply cuz I don't know whether he is a Rhodes Scholar or as dumb as a box of rocks when it comes to Basketball IQ.

I'm assuming that if he did have the Basketball IQ to pick up JO'Bs system, if Speights was available at the 17th pick, that we would have chosen him over Hibbert....whereas the opposite would have been true ( where we would choose Hibbert over Speights ) if Speights didn't have the Basketball IQ.

MyFavMartin
01-14-2009, 07:57 PM
And JOB's system is working so well now that everyone has had a year to practice it?

plutarch
01-14-2009, 08:01 PM
McGee,
he is impressive i like him a lot, great physical attributes

CableKC
01-14-2009, 08:19 PM
And JOB's system is working so well now that everyone has had a year to practice it?
Although I think the problem is more due to the offense/defense itself fitting with the makeup of this team.....but just to be clear....everyone hasn't had a year to practice it.

The only key players in the rotation that has had a year to practice it is Granger, Dunleavy, Murphy, Foster, Marquis, Diener, and ( to a certain extent ) Graham....basically whoever was on the roster at the end of the 2007-2008 season.

However, the other half of our key rotational Players like Jack, Ford, Rasho, BRush and Hibbert have only had 1/2 a season to pick up JO'Bs defensive system.

Kemo
01-14-2009, 11:22 PM
Obviously, Speights looks very good right now compared to Roy.



If Roy were getting the minutes that Speights have been given , I think he would look as good, if not alot better than Speights..

All Roy needs , is to focus on not drawing so many early fouls, and the rest will click in place nicely for him..
The problem is , we have a coach , that isn't giving Hibby consistant minutes..
I think Roy has earned at least 15 minutes EVERY game.. not just 10 to 15 minutes ever 2 or 3 games played...

I hate how JOB plays to the other teams lineup , instead of forcing them to adjust to us .. I have seen many games , where the other team could not stop Hibbert defensively .. Roy would rack up 12 to 16 pts, get his 3rd foul , and JOB would yank him out for the rest of the game... and we would end up losing ..

When the game is on the line, and it is the difference between a win and a loss, you don't make an example out of a player, because of his 3 fouls , who could have really been a difference maker in us getting a win... instead we lost ..

Infinite MAN_force
01-15-2009, 12:27 AM
Roy has been very productive in limited minutes, I am starting to question why he is not consistently getting 20 minutes a game. If he were, I think his numbers would be much more impressive.

I was a big speights guy before the draft, but I think I prefer Roy. As someone stated, Skilled Centers are more rare than PFs, and Roy looks like he could be a major factor on the offensive end and a decent presence on defense. Not to mention his smarts and passing ability, and a good character guy, I would stick with Roy.

I remember speights came off kind of dumb in his pre-draft interview, which was a little worrisome. Didn't really strike me as the kind of guy who was gonna bust *** to improve his game, like Roy. I like having those kind of guys on the team.

Haggard
01-15-2009, 07:52 PM
I wanted Hibbert and we got Hibbert. So I'm pretty happy with that.

Hibbert is more NBA ready and we needed a big now.

MiaDragon
01-15-2009, 08:08 PM
I wanted Hibbert and we got Hibbert. So I'm pretty happy with that.

Hibbert is more NBA ready and we needed a big now.

and yet he rides the pine..... Ive been pretty hard on Hibbert but there have been flashes of a pretty good player. Id like to see more of him.

Quis
01-15-2009, 08:19 PM
I wanted Hibbert and we got Hibbert. So I'm pretty happy with that.

Hibbert is more NBA ready and we needed a big now.

Speights is playing more minutes per game with much better production, all on a team with a better record than our own. Hibbert has twice as many DNP-CDs as Speights (6 vs 3).

I'm fine with Hibbert, but Speights is better right now.

Shade
01-15-2009, 08:32 PM
I wanted Chalmers as well, and wanted Bird to get one of either Minnie, Seattle, or Portland 1st 2nd round picks to get Chalmers. I was furious that Bird didn't get the 2nd from Portland in the trade. I felt he dropped the ball.

I really wanted Chalmers, too. I was ticked that we didn't get Portland to throw in a second-rounder to grab him with.

Shade
01-15-2009, 08:34 PM
I wanted Hibbert and we got Hibbert. So I'm pretty happy with that.

Hibbert is more NBA ready and we needed a big now.

Yes, we see how ready the "NBA-ready" Hibbert and Rush are. They look like vets the way they warm the bench so consistently. :banghead:

Shade
01-15-2009, 08:37 PM
You do realize that if we'd have taken Koufus the post-draft headline would have been about Shade flinging himself from the upper level of the Fieldhouse, right? I mean, trading Bayless and drafting Koufus, together...

At least I would have taken some ushers out with me.

Justin Tyme
01-15-2009, 09:03 PM
Yes, we see how ready the "NBA-ready" Hibbert and Rush are. They look like vets the way they warm the bench so consistently. :banghead:



I hear ya!!

Bayless 1-11 last night with Blake out with a separated shoulder, Bayless should be getting some PT, so he needs to make the most of it.

flox
01-15-2009, 10:47 PM
I hear ya!!

Bayless 1-11 last night with Blake out with a separated shoulder, Bayless should be getting some PT, so he needs to make the most of it.

A few notes: Wade is soo good that he makes Chalmers' life so much easier. He is very lucky he found the right system to play in. I suspect that if you put him in a few different teams, he would be playing much much worse.

Bayless has been extremely spectacular today, the Nets are unable to stop his penetration without fouling. He is quite a penetratior (Roy and some great shooters on the floor help)

Speights has been great, it would have been great to have him, I don't know where that puts Troy though. He's too good to get backup minutes but can't play the 5 too effectively. Either way though, I would have taken Speights given the chance.

BlueNGold
01-17-2009, 01:03 AM
I would have picked Speights over Rush, Hibbert and Koufus if all were available. If I had to choose right now, it would still be Speights...although I definitely would have picked Bayless over all of them. In 2 years, all views on this will probably be different.