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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

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"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

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We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

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In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

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If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

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I'm tired of hearing about the defense

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  • I'm tired of hearing about the defense

    Our defense really isn't that bad. It's a pleasure to watch. Our problem isn't really that we can't defend, it's more to do with the way we attack the basket ourselves. We are a high octance offensive team and we haven't really been dominated for four quarters at all this year. The fact we are not eating up a lot of clock with our posessions means the other team gets more posessions. More posessions means they will score more.

    I dont care how many points we give up. Just as long as we aren't gettin dominated and have a chance to win then I am happy. All this fire O'Brien talk is just nonsense IMO. What were your expectations coming into this season? All of my bold predictions aside, they couldn't have been that high. I was just looking for the best possible scenarios and hoped they panned out in our favor.

    If it was at all like last year we wouldn't be competing every single game. We are playing this year and our record doesn't indicate how strong our team is. The only thing that can and will remedy this is a favorable schedule swing.

    Would you rather have a team that can't score at all, can't hit shots, has no offensive prowess like the previous 3 years? Just for some junk defense that clearly can't stop dominant teams/players. As well as a slow half court offense that creates less posessions for the other team and lulls everyone to death. The fans and players included. Yea other teams may score less but we aren't playing any relevant defense being down by 20.

    I like the fact our games are like old ABA games. We were actually a great team in the ABA, one with championships to prove it. Maybe we can return to those days. If that means 120 point games every night I'm all for it. It is just so much more fun to watch than anything Carlisle did other than maybe his playoff runs.

    Anyone complain about the defense in the Sun/Bulls finals? It was the first full finals I watched. I was nine. It was the greatest series I've seen in my life. The 120+ games were just awe inspiring. I'm not saying the Pacers are anywhere close to as good as these two teams, but I tend to enjoy high scorers, espescially in the playoffs/finals.
    Last edited by Midcoasted; 01-10-2009, 04:05 AM.

  • #2
    Re: I'm tired of hearing about the defense

    Our major problem is defense, bro. As much as I like the team too.. you can't deny that our defense doesn't suck. Saying "As long as it keeps us in it is fine with me." doesn't justify anything. The defense hardly ever keeps us in a game, it's the offense that does. If we could somehow learn to play defense for one quarter or even 2, we'd win a lot more games after our shot starts getting flat (second half).

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: I'm tired of hearing about the defense

      ...."its a pleasure to watch?"

      Ok, I can understand you saying the defense isn't as bad as the stats show. I might not agree with it, but I understand it. But implying you enjoy watching the pacers on the defensive end....why?

      Did you enjoy Jarret Jack guarding Kobe at the end of the game with nobody within 10 feet to help him? I didn't even care about the outcome and I thought that was absurd.
      Last edited by Kstat; 01-10-2009, 04:54 AM.

      It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

      Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
      Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
      NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

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      • #4
        Re: I'm tired of hearing about the defense

        Originally posted by Midcoasted View Post

        Anyone complain about the defense in the Sun/Bulls finals?
        ....actually, the suns took a lot of heat for not even attempting to scheme against Jordan. The Suns lack of attention to defense is what eventually cost their coach his job.
        Last edited by Kstat; 01-10-2009, 04:53 AM.

        It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

        Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
        Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
        NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: I'm tired of hearing about the defense

          In the last 3 games, the Pacers have given up 135, 110, and 121 points, and you think that's fine? That's an average of 122 points a game the Pacers are giving up! That's fine b/c your expectations aren't that great for this team, b/c they are in most of the games, and b/c the games are exciting? Wow, what low expectations you have. This is a major problem with many Pacers fans... their low expectations. I don't EXPECT to give up 122 a game in the last 3 games. 1 win 2 loses which says you are happy with a 33% winning team.

          I EXPECT a team to play defense. That means not giving up 100 plus points a game.... or game after game after game. Check the Pacers record when they give up 100 plus points a game to the opposition. Oh, I forgot you are tired of hearing about the defense. Lets just play run n gun and lose games. That way you will be happy, and your low expectations for the Pacers can continue.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: I'm tired of hearing about the defense

            Originally posted by Midcoasted View Post
            Our defense really isn't that bad.
            yeah it can get worse than this. who knows may be JOB guards kobe next time?

            our defense is so bad i thought sam perkins would do a better job guarding gasol last night. this defense is a pain to watch.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: I'm tired of hearing about the defense

              Oh, How I wish we would play defense as well as we did the first Boston game..
              I mean, it showed we are capable..
              I wonder if the coach just gave up on defense, being the key to winning,like he originally preached, and told the guys to just score and try to win by barraging them with points..
              "Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: I'm tired of hearing about the defense

                The Pacers need 1 or two players additionally who can play some back up minutes
                aggressive defense. I would love to have Ariza from the Lakers
                Anyone have opinions on him.
                {o,o}
                |)__)
                -"-"-

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: I'm tired of hearing about the defense

                  ya I do............


                  From what he said to Granger in last night's game , I think he is a punk..

                  Other than that, he is a good player.. But I wouldn't want him on our team..
                  "Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: I'm tired of hearing about the defense

                    Ever heard of the Maginot Line? After WW1, the French built a line of forts along their border to keep the Germans out. It worked! The Germens never breached the Maginot Line. Unfortunately, they marched around the Maginot Line through Belgium and conquered France in five weeks.

                    Last year, the Pacers played matador defense and gave up bucket after bucket in the paint. That has stopped this year thanks to O'Brien's "protect the paint defensively" mantra, but the price is open shots for the open man on the perimeter. O'Brien's defense is successful in stopping the parade of inside shots we saw last year. Most games (including last night), the Pacers hold the opponent to fewer inside points than they score themselves.

                    I'm not the guy to say which way is better. But clearly we are playing some kind of defense and getting some desirable results from it. Is there an alternative defensive scheme that would stop the open shots without opening up the lane again for easy drives to the hoop like teams were getting last year? 'Cause I'd rather keep it like it is than go back to the way it was.

                    EDIT: And, if the better way depends on having a roster of veteran players who are longer and faster than the opponent at every position, then O'Brien gets a pass as long as the Pacers are playing with the guys they've got.
                    Last edited by Putnam; 01-10-2009, 10:12 AM.
                    And I won't be here to see the day
                    It all dries up and blows away
                    I'd hang around just to see
                    But they never had much use for me
                    In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: I'm tired of hearing about the defense

                      Originally posted by Justin Tyme View Post
                      In the last 3 games, the Pacers have given up 135, 110, and 121 points, and you think that's fine? That's an average of 122 points a game the Pacers are giving up! That's fine b/c your expectations aren't that great for this team, b/c they are in most of the games, and b/c the games are exciting? Wow, what low expectations you have. This is a major problem with many Pacers fans... their low expectations. I don't EXPECT to give up 122 a game in the last 3 games. 1 win 2 loses which says you are happy with a 33% winning team.

                      I EXPECT a team to play defense. That means not giving up 100 plus points a game.... or game after game after game. Check the Pacers record when they give up 100 plus points a game to the opposition. Oh, I forgot you are tired of hearing about the defense. Lets just play run n gun and lose games. That way you will be happy, and your low expectations for the Pacers can continue.

                      We need to get rid of "defensive specialist" Dick Harter immediately, and find a coach who understand's today's modern game and and coach his players to play defense the right way. Harter quietly sits on the bench...you don;t even know he's there. He should be up, giving direction, and all over our guys when defensive lapses occur. Harter is the problem, not JOB or the players!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: I'm tired of hearing about the defense

                        Originally posted by owl View Post
                        The Pacers need 1 or two players additionally who can play some back up minutes
                        aggressive defense. I would love to have Ariza from the Lakers
                        Anyone have opinions on him.

                        That was covered in another thread about 2 weeks ago. I see no way the Pacers could sign him as a FA. Even better why would he want to leave the Lakers? The Lakers will do whatever to re-sign him. He's a very important player for them. Boston allowed Posey to leave thru FA, and it has hurt them. There is a lesson there to be learned, and I don't see that lesson lost on the Lakers.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: I'm tired of hearing about the defense

                          Originally posted by NashvilleKat View Post
                          We need to get rid of "defensive specialist" Dick Harter immediately, and find a coach who understand's today's modern game and and coach his players to play defense the right way. Harter quietly sits on the bench...you don;t even know he's there. He should be up, giving direction, and all over our guys when defensive lapses occur. Harter is the problem, not JOB or the players!

                          It was pointed out earlier this week that Harter isn't the defensive coach this year. That Lester Conner and another coach are doing the defensive coaching this year.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: I'm tired of hearing about the defense

                            Originally posted by Putnam View Post

                            Ever heard of the Maginot Line? After WW1, the French built a line of forts along their border to keep the Germans out. It worked! The Germens never breached the Maginot Line. Unfortunately, they marched around the Maginot Line through Belgium and conquered France in five weeks.


                            I'm not the guy to say which way is better. But clearly we are playing some kind of defense and getting some desirable results from it.

                            The Germans also flew over Maginot Line with the Luftwaffe as part of Blitzkrieg through Beligum in 39. Belgium and Europe was totally unprepared for this type of new warfare.


                            Giving up the amount of points the Pacers do every game shows failure when the team is playing .333 type ball, giving up 100 plus points in losses, and having given up an average of 122 points to teams on this road trip.

                            If Bird can't see it and does nothing to correct it, he's at fault. The buck stops on his desk. Either he needs to step in and change the style/system this team is playing, trade for players that can defend, or a combination of both. He is the one that is fully responsible for what's going on his watch.... he's allowing it to happen.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: I'm tired of hearing about the defense

                              The Pacers primary concern was Kobe containment. Or is it more called damage control when he still scores 36?

                              Kobe did a good job getting his team involved and setting up a lot of assists for himself early on.

                              I do think I saw Pau drive around the lane too much, but when you have to respect his jumpshot and he's perfected the run-down-the-side-of-the-lane and throw up a banked layup, it's tough for the weakside post help to block.

                              Pacers did an admirable job against a very good team. Now they need to take care against the teams like Chicago and Charlotte.

                              Celtics are still the better team. Bird takes comfort in this.

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