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jhondog28
01-05-2009, 08:27 PM
I have heard a lot of cheering for Granger to make the All Star game but i was wondering what you all thought of the possibilities of either Brush or Hibbert making the Freshman team. I could see Brush making it first ahead of hibbert mainly due to getting more minutes, but I was wondering if you think either one will get elected to the team? If not them then who do you all think will make it?

Hicks
01-05-2009, 08:51 PM
I think this came up a week ago or so, and the general consensus was that neither Rush or Hibbert would make the 9-man roster for the rookies.

MyFavMartin
01-05-2009, 08:58 PM
Neither are ranked in the top 20 on ESPN's rookie rankings, so I don't think so.

switch
01-05-2009, 11:51 PM
Does anybody think Stanko will make the sophmore team?

CableKC
01-06-2009, 12:15 AM
Who would be included in the top 9?

Mayo
Beasley
Rose
Gordon
Rudy
Brook
Chalmers

Who'd I miss for #8 and #9?

Love?

BRushWithDeath
01-06-2009, 01:14 AM
Who would be included in the top 9?

Mayo
Beasley
Rose
Gordon
Rudy
Brook
Chalmers

Who'd I miss for #8 and #9?

Love?

Marc Gasol, Greg Oden, Russell Westbrook, D.J. Augustin, Marreese Speights, Courtney Lee, Mbah a Moute, etc. are all possibilities.

My team:

Starters:

Rose
Mayo
Fernandez
Beasley
Gasol

Bench:

Greg Oden
Brook Lopez
Russell Westbrook
Luc Richard Mbah a Moute

Quis
01-06-2009, 01:22 AM
It's rather depressing to realize that neither of our 'future' pieces is performing good enough to make the team.

CableKC
01-06-2009, 01:28 AM
Marc Gasol, Greg Oden, Russell Westbrook, D.J. Augustin, Marreese Speights, Courtney Lee, Mbah a Moute, etc. are all possibilities.

My team:

Starters:

Rose
Mayo
Fernandez
Beasley
Gasol

Bench:

Greg Oden
Brook Lopez
Russell Westbrook
Luc Richard Mbah a Moute
Does Gasol and Oden count as Rookies?

BRushWithDeath
01-06-2009, 01:30 AM
Does Gasol and Oden count as Rookies?

Why wouldn't they?

jhondog28
01-06-2009, 10:35 AM
To me it just seems very depressing from a Pacers perspective. I do not want to be a debbie downer but to have two picks in the top 20 of last years draft and to not even see one even close to making the team should say a lot. Hopefully they both are just slow developers and will blossom into great players, but so far the early prognosis is not overwhelming. The Pacers play a very offensive game with a lot of points scored, Dunleavy has been out all year which has given Rush more minutes than most rookies, and Hibbert at over 7 ft should produce more on the defensive end such a rebounding or at least getting his long arms in the way to alter shots. I hope I am proven wrong in the coming years but I just want something so positive to happen to such a great basketball state such as Indiana.

Quis
01-06-2009, 12:46 PM
Is there anyone else here honest enough to admit that, thus far, Brandon Rush is a bust?

Maybe he wont be in the future, but from what he's shown through his first 33 games, he was a terrible selection.

How do you pass up a stud PF prospect like Marresse Speights - a guy who should've been a top-7 pick based on talent - for such a mediocre SG? Rush wasn't that good at Kansas. He didn't show anything that would lead any intelligent observer to believe he would be anything noteworthy in the NBA.

Infinite MAN_force
01-06-2009, 01:09 PM
Jesus people, we are calling rush a bust after 33 games?

Rush is fine, watching him play I think his only problem is confidence. He has all the tools to be a great defender, he can shoot, he is probably our best athlete on the wing... for gods sake give him some time. He got benched for underperforming... just like last time he will be back after like two games and will probably blow up for another 20 plus points.

As much as people like to throw obrien under the bus for this that and the other, I actually really like how he is bringing the rookies along slowly, especially Hibbert. He is allowing them to develop without just throwing them to the wolves every night. He is also holding them accountable and is not afraid to make them sit a few games if they are underperforming, like with rush.

who cares about the rookie soph game anyway, our guys were drafted 13 and 17 respectively... they don't have the hype. Add guys like Oden and Fernandez who weren't even part of this draft are taking spots, its not surprising at all they are not in the "top 9" discussion.

jhondog28
01-06-2009, 02:42 PM
Jesus people, we are calling rush a bust after 33 games?

Rush is fine, watching him play I think his only problem is confidence. He has all the tools to be a great defender, he can shoot, he is probably our best athlete on the wing... for gods sake give him some time. He got benched for underperforming... just like last time he will be back after like two games and will probably blow up for another 20 plus points.

As much as people like to throw obrien under the bus for this that and the other, I actually really like how he is bringing the rookies along slowly, especially Hibbert. He is allowing them to develop without just throwing them to the wolves every night. He is also holding them accountable and is not afraid to make them sit a few games if they are underperforming, like with rush.

who cares about the rookie soph game anyway, our guys were drafted 13 and 17 respectively... they don't have the hype. Add guys like Oden and Fernandez who weren't even part of this draft are taking spots, its not surprising at all they are not in the "top 9" discussion.


You can see the raw talent they both possess, but my main problem is that if you are going to be a decent player normally you show signs of flashes even as a rookie. I just do not see any of those flashes from either one of them. Granted they have had good games, but I just do not see either one being a huge bright spot anywhere in the near future. I can see them as good third and fourth options at best in the future, but when you are in the lottery you are looking for 1st and second options, hence drafting in the lottery. Especially when you have 2 selections. But hey as I have said I hope I am wrong.

MiaDragon
01-06-2009, 02:57 PM
Is there anyone else here honest enough to admit that, thus far, Brandon Rush is a bust?

Maybe he wont be in the future, but from what he's shown through his first 33 games, he was a terrible selection.

How do you pass up a stud PF prospect like Marresse Speights - a guy who should've been a top-7 pick based on talent - for such a mediocre SG? Rush wasn't that good at Kansas. He didn't show anything that would lead any intelligent observer to believe he would be anything noteworthy in the NBA.

Really the only problem I see with Rush is his shot not falling. That being said the kid can shoot, its only a matter of time before it does.

MiaDragon
01-06-2009, 02:58 PM
Does Gasol and Oden count as Rookies?

I dont see how Oden deserves a spot, is it on name alone?

count55
01-06-2009, 03:22 PM
You can see the raw talent they both possess, but my main problem is that if you are going to be a decent player normally you show signs of flashes even as a rookie. I just do not see any of those flashes from either one of them. Granted they have had good games, but I just do not see either one being a huge bright spot anywhere in the near future. I can see them as good third and fourth options at best in the future, but when you are in the lottery you are looking for 1st and second options, hence drafting in the lottery. Especially when you have 2 selections. But hey as I have said I hope I am wrong.

If you are looking for 1st and 2nd options from the 13th & 17th pick, you are going to be regularly and sorely disappointed. In the last 27 drafts, there have been only two bona fide stars taken from either of these positions: Karl Malone & Kobe Bryant, both taken 13th.

There have been six other players that could possibly be considered either first or second options: Jalen Rose & Richard Jefferson (@13), Shawn Kemp, Jermaine O'Neal, Josh Smith, and Danny Granger (@17). This may be a generous assumption.

That means that only 8 of 54 players would've met your expectations, or slightly less than 15%.

In fact, if both Rush and Hibbert become good third or fourth options, they should and would be considered extremely good picks for their positions. At #13, 73% of the picks taken since 1982 have turned out to be no better than rotational/bench players, including 42% being outright busts. For #17, it gets worse, with almost 85% being rotation/bench players or worse, including a whopping 58% being busts.

The term "lottery" has lost considerable meaning with expansion. The first lottery had 7 teams in it, all with an equal chance at #1. What used to be mid-first round picks (13, 14) are now, technically, "lottery" picks. However, the picks didn't magically get better simply because they now can claim that monicker.

BRushWithDeath
01-06-2009, 03:30 PM
I dont see how Oden deserves a spot, is it on name alone?

Oden deserves a spot long before Hibbert.

count55
01-06-2009, 03:33 PM
Oden deserves a spot long before Hibbert.

True, but it is open to debate as to whether he should get one ahead of, say, Brook Lopez...strictly based on production.

BRushWithDeath
01-06-2009, 03:41 PM
True, but it is open to debate as to whether he should get one ahead of, say, Brook Lopez...strictly based on production.

I don't think that he should. But I think he's one of the top 9 rookies. I think Lopez and Oden should both get in. But I doubt they have a third of their team as centers. Gasol should be the starter.

MiaDragon
01-06-2009, 04:04 PM
Oden deserves a spot long before Hibbert.

Thats not what I asked.

MiaDragon
01-06-2009, 04:05 PM
True, but it is open to debate as to whether he should get one ahead of, say, Brook Lopez...strictly based on production.

There it is.

xtacy
01-06-2009, 04:35 PM
It's rather depressing to realize that neither of our 'future' pieces is performing good enough to make the team.

agreed. i was expecting more from them expecially rush.

naptownmenace
01-06-2009, 04:37 PM
You can see the raw talent they both possess, but my main problem is that if you are going to be a decent player normally you show signs of flashes even as a rookie. I just do not see any of those flashes from either one of them.


I've seen plenty of flashes from those two - especially BRush. Brandon's playing about as good as Danny did 33 games into his rookie season.

He's had 16 games of at least 4 rebounds including one 11 rebound double-double game.

He's had 12 games of double-digit scoring including a 22 point, 8-12 shooting, 8 rebounds, and 3 steals performance against NJ last month.

What is that not flashy enough for you? ;)


Hibbert on the other hand, is a mixed bag. He has a lot of talent but he also has a lot of softness. Most of that softness is because of his lack of upper body strength so it's possible that could improve as his body matures and he gets to spend a complete offseason with NBA level strength and conditioning coaches.

Still, he's had a some games where he's shown flashes of brilliance too like in the first Cavs game (11 points, 9 rebounds, 2 blocks), the game against the Clippers (16 points, 8 rebounds, 5 blocks), and the game against the Hornets (19 points, 6 rebounds).

Overall, he's learning one of the toughest positions to learn in the NBA and he's struggling to adjust to the speed of defending against the pros. But I don't think it's fair to call him a bust or to even say that he's not showing signs of improvement. He's averaging about 10 points and 5 rebounds in games that he's been the starter so I'll take that as a sign that he's improving.

Naptown_Seth
01-07-2009, 06:10 PM
No knock on Rush or Hibbert, both were solid picks for the Pacers' goals, but this draft class has been insanely deep. It's really sick.

Don't the Sophs usually win this? This year I expect the FRSH team to crush them. There are going to be a lot of guys left off that roster that deserve to be on it. I mean a guy like Gordon, Love, or Chalmers, guys who are having years that would normally lock you onto the rookie squad.

Funny how so much was made of the prior draft and then you look at how that's gone. Conley, good kid, but he and Law as the top 2 PG prospects and here you have guys like Westbrook and Chalmers putting them to shame.


The guy that's surprised me the most is Mbah a Moute. I saw him play a lot and never imagined he'd translate over so well, and I was one that thought Chalmers and Lee were massive late 1st/early 2nd bargains.

Naptown_Seth
01-07-2009, 06:18 PM
Really the only problem I see with Rush is his shot not falling. That being said the kid can shoot, its only a matter of time before it does.
I agree. I really liked him coming out and he's been better than I expected.

Again it's just a case of so much depth in the draft. I mean I liked Mayo, Rose, Beasley, and Love much more than Rush. I liked Chalmers slightly more than Rush. I thought Lee could give you a poor man's Rush. I thought Lopez was legit enough, I thought Westbrook had NBA talent just not PG talent (but he's getting that done).

I mean only a few guys have surprised me. I never saw Hibbert as a top 9 pick, that's for certain. Even Gordon, who I had some concerns with, is making good on his offensive ability with LA.

But how many of those top 9 guys are coming after the Rush pick? How many fit exactly what Indy needed, including personality? I will say that I might have had interest in a Speights/Lee pair of picks, though 17 would have been too high for Lee. Don't think Rush would have made it to 17.


Also BTW, I notice that Bayless is nowhere near the list of guys that might make the rookie team. So at this point that trade looks pretty darn good.

Anthem
01-07-2009, 06:34 PM
You want to see something weird? Go look at BRush's shooting percentages. You'll be shocked. His 2FG% is pretty terrible (due to all of the bunnies he's missed) but his 3fg% is very solid. Better than solid... he's shooting about the same as Danny and Murph. Only Jack is shooting the 3 better.

If that's "he hasn't found his shot yet" then I'm really looking forward to a couple of years down the line.

Justin Tyme
01-07-2009, 08:08 PM
might have had interest in a Speights/Lee pair of picks, though 17 would have been too high for Lee.


That's exactly who I wanted with the Pacers 2 1st picks. I wanted the Pacers to get either Minnie, Portland, or Seattle's 1st pick in the 2nd round for Chalmers too. Oh well so much for wishes.

I never wanted Hibbert or Koufos, and I'm not crazy over Rush. Of the 2 picks Rush has more opportunity to be a decent player. Hibbert is as slow as molasses and would do better with a half court team. I'd trade him in a heartbeat.