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MillerTime
01-05-2009, 05:34 PM
The Raptors are still struggling and Toronto general manager Bryan Colangelo is looking to shake things up.

Colangelo is reportedly trying to trade Jermaine O'Neal, having spoken with at least a half dozen teams about the big man.

The Raptors acquired O'Neal in a trade with the Pacers this past July. Scouts claim that he lacks any lift in his legs.


http://www.news-herald.com/articles/2009/01/04/sports/nh304836.txt

By Bob Finnan
News-Herald.com

MillerTime
01-05-2009, 05:36 PM
Im sure they could send JO to NY. Walsh would love his expiring $23million in 2010...actaully a lot of teams would

BlueNGold
01-05-2009, 05:39 PM
Sit back and enjoy. Maybe we can reacquire him for Rasho...

Justin Tyme
01-05-2009, 05:40 PM
The Raptors are willing to trade anyone but Bosh and Calderon. BC and his deals aren't looking that great now.

MillerTime
01-05-2009, 05:48 PM
Sit back and enjoy. Maybe we can reacquire him for Rasho...

We're going to have to give up more than just Rasho (because of contracts). I got kind of sick of JO as a Pacer, and im getting sick of him as a Raptor. You just think, someone getting paid that kind of money, is just so unreliable.

I think BC is better off holding onto to JO and hitting the 2010 FA and trying to get a swingman like Joe Johnson with the Raps

BlueNGold
01-05-2009, 05:50 PM
We're going to have to give up more than just Rasho (because of contracts). I got kind of sick of JO as a Pacer, and im getting sick of him as a Raptor. You just think, someone getting paid that kind of money, is just so unreliable.

I think BC is better off holding onto to JO and hitting the 2010 FA and trying to get a swingman like Joe Johnson with the Raps

The moon is made of cheese.

DisplacedKnick
01-05-2009, 05:55 PM
I think we'd probably trade Marbury for him. Him and Calderon would get along great!

MillerTime
01-05-2009, 05:59 PM
The moon is made of cheese.

??????????????????????

Kstat
01-05-2009, 06:03 PM
I'd take him in a heartbeat, but I wouldn't pony up the contracts it'd take to get him. We'd have to trade Iverson.

Sollozzo
01-05-2009, 06:13 PM
JO is a 30 year old in a 37 year old's body.

Shaq looks like he has more miles left than JO, and Shaq is almost 37 with 16 years under his belt.

RaptorsFan
01-05-2009, 06:23 PM
1) JO is averaging 14 and 8, not done by a longshot, will never be an allstar again, but can be useful, obv not worth 20mil

2) We kept the wrong PG, TJ fits our PHX-East system much better, Calderon is a halfcourt offense type of PG, would be great in detriot or something like that.

3) Larry fleeced us, Rasho is solid, if you give him PT, Barngagi has way more upside then JO as a C, BC should have traded Calderon + package for a slasher, not a washed up PF that will play C for us.

4) JO clogs up our offense, doesnt seem like a team guy, has instilled 0 intensity in our team (he is intense himself, but we need a guy KG like in getting the team to up its D as a whole, one guy cant solve our mess). We are seriously better w/o him.

5) Granger for JO sounds nice :P throw us a bone!

MillerTime
01-05-2009, 06:24 PM
I'd take him in a heartbeat, but I wouldn't pony up the contracts it'd take to get him. We'd have to trade Iverson.
I think AI for JO would be unfair for Pistons. Pistons are better off letting AI expire this season

Sit back and enjoy. Maybe we can reacquire him for Rasho...
I forgot that we cannot acquire...The only we can acquire JO is if hes waived

Hicks
01-05-2009, 07:01 PM
:eyebrow:

Shade
01-05-2009, 07:06 PM
I would hope that BC traded for JO primarily for his expiring contract next season and didn't legitimately expect him to return to All-Star form. Even I did not ever expect to see JO get back to that again. I was upset with moving a potentially very valuable trade piece too soon.

madison
01-05-2009, 08:24 PM
First, is this really true or just a rumor? Who really knows! My vote, send JO anywhere but the Pacers. I suspect a lot of the problems on the team and with both JOB and Rick in the recent past was the special treatment that a franchise salaried player creates, when in fact, he is just a $12 million/yr power forward who can't close out games and is not a go-to guy when you absolutely have to score. Have patience, my friends. We're already better than we were last year and we'll only get better from here.

Shade
01-05-2009, 09:00 PM
First, is this really true or just a rumor? Who really knows! My vote, send JO anywhere but the Pacers. I suspect a lot of the problems on the team and with both JOB and Rick in the recent past was the special treatment that a franchise salaried player creates, when in fact, he is just a $12 million/yr power forward who can't close out games and is not a go-to guy when you absolutely have to score. Have patience, my friends. We're already better than we were last year and we'll only get better from here.

:huh:

MyFavMartin
01-05-2009, 09:03 PM
I don't want JO back but if they need a team as a 3rd wheel in a trade, I'd give up Rasho and Tinsley to a team like Miami for Marion. :D

Is it me or would Toronto be a potential spot in a trade for Camby?

MrSparko
01-05-2009, 09:09 PM
I don't want JO back but if they need a team as a 3rd wheel in a trade, I'd give up Rasho and Tinsley to a team like Miami for Marion. :D

Is it me or would LA Clippers be a potential spot in a trade for Camby?


I'll bet you 500,000,000 dollars that Camby will have put a Clippers jersey on at some point in his career.

Oneal07
01-05-2009, 09:10 PM
Raptors keeping him too much on the downlow, to actually know what's really going on. They said he missed games due to flu, now it's the knee. I don't even see him on the sidelines when they play. Maybe things are worse than they seem

Bball
01-05-2009, 09:15 PM
I would hope that BC traded for JO primarily for his expiring contract next season and didn't legitimately expect him to return to All-Star form.

Maybe they did trade for his contract with the added hope he could give them something between now and the expiration date... but maybe he's brought some chemistry killing, prima donna lockerrom ways with him that they didn't expect and would prefer not to have around?

MyFavMartin
01-05-2009, 09:22 PM
I'll bet you 500,000,000 dollars that Camby will have put a Clippers jersey on at some point in his career.

Sorry. Meant Toronto.

Now that I look at the Clippers salaries, they don't have enough to give back nor less enough to stay under the cap while taking on JO. Does the latter negate the ability of a trade with an exception?

duke dynamite
01-05-2009, 09:59 PM
I'm surprised this took as long as it did to get posted. I looked at this this morning, and thought since it was a rumor I wouldn't even start anything...

cinotimz
01-05-2009, 10:02 PM
Hmmm. Trying to trade a 20 plus million dollar guys only months after acquiring him and really talking that trade up as being the trade that would help take the team to the next level.

Telling.

The good news is the one place JO wont be going is back here.

Think if BC could, he would trade JO for TJ and an expiring Rasho???

Im guessing he would jump at the chance.

Guess the Bender trade finally evened out a bit.

BlueNGold
01-05-2009, 10:41 PM
1) JO is averaging 14 and 8, not done by a longshot, will never be an allstar again, but can be useful, obv not worth 20mil

2) We kept the wrong PG, TJ fits our PHX-East system much better, Calderon is a halfcourt offense type of PG, would be great in detriot or something like that.

3) Larry fleeced us, Rasho is solid, if you give him PT, Barngagi has way more upside then JO as a C, BC should have traded Calderon + package for a slasher, not a washed up PF that will play C for us.

4) JO clogs up our offense, doesnt seem like a team guy, has instilled 0 intensity in our team (he is intense himself, but we need a guy KG like in getting the team to up its D as a whole, one guy cant solve our mess). We are seriously better w/o him.

5) Granger for JO sounds nice :P throw us a bone!

#5 is less likely than Cleveland trading you Lebron for Joey Graham. Maybe we would take Bosh though.

BTW, this post is beautiful on one hand, and sad on another. I feel for the Raptors. In many ways, this reminds me of the time Artest was traded to Sacramento. Almost a feeling of guilt from the transaction.

Oneal07
01-05-2009, 11:45 PM
1) JO is averaging 14 and 8, not done by a longshot, will never be an allstar again, but can be useful, obv not worth 20mil

2) We kept the wrong PG, TJ fits our PHX-East system much better, Calderon is a halfcourt offense type of PG, would be great in detriot or something like that.

3) Larry fleeced us, Rasho is solid, if you give him PT, Barngagi has way more upside then JO as a C, BC should have traded Calderon + package for a slasher, not a washed up PF that will play C for us.

4) JO clogs up our offense, doesnt seem like a team guy, has instilled 0 intensity in our team (he is intense himself, but we need a guy KG like in getting the team to up its D as a whole, one guy cant solve our mess). We are seriously better w/o him.

5) Granger for JO sounds nice :P throw us a bone!

When Raptors Pass Jermaine the ball, there's results. Just look at the game he dropped 36. That was old school JO. Raptors are a jump shooting happy team, and always will be. They don't know how to use low post players like JO. I mean, JO was having a sick game vs. Portland, and they don't give it to him down the stretch? Bosh didn't even do Jack that game, but did hit a big shot. He's 14 and 8 because he don't even touch the ball

Raptors ain't even using JO properly, they just want to shoot 3's and don't want to rebound. If you watch, you wonder why Bosh Or O'neal is getting gang raped by themselves for the rebound

We didn't keep the wrong PG, we just don't have a back up, Solomon needs to go with that ish that he's doing. over dribbling like he's Travis Best and missing shots. Jacking up all the shots tonight too, not passing it to Bosh. GIVE THE BALL TO BOSH

If anyone has to go it's Colangelo, I think he said yesterday, he wasn't trying to make a Raptors a contender, but a BETTER team. That's Maple Leafs Mentality. Just sucker the fans into believing nonsense. We need someone in here who knows basketball and not just trying to sell an image. I mean, if we had wing players who ATTACKED the basket, Raptors wouldn't have such a bad record. WING PLAYERS. Like RUDY GAY, MARQUIS, D-WADE. Those type of players. But we have Jamario Moon, who jacks up shots.

LOL. Guys on our team couldn't even handle Sam Mitchell, they couldn't handle a guy like KG. Trust me, It's these players that they bring in. When we had guys like Charles Oakley on our team, it was good for the team. We were actually playing REAL basketball. Raptors need to get these soft players off the team.

Just imagine if we drafted Lamarcus Aldridge over Bargnani. . .MAkes me wonder about some of these moves people keep praising Colangelo. I like Bargnani, but he's been in the league for how long now. He needs some consistency

Peck
01-06-2009, 01:22 AM
If there is any validity in this rumor then IMO they should just hand out one post season award right now.

Larry Bird for Executive of the year!!!!!

CableKC
01-06-2009, 01:41 AM
As long as the Raptors aren't in the 2010 FA market, they can move JONeal to some team that wants a huge expiring contract that expires after 2009. But if they want to remain in the 2010 FA Market ( thus looking for minimal contracts that last beyond 2009 ), then they will find it very hard to move him.

Unclebuck
01-06-2009, 08:52 AM
Wow, we need scouts to tell us he's got no lift

owl
01-06-2009, 09:30 AM
Wow, we need scouts to tell us he's got no lift


Looks like UB and I are qualified to be scouts too.

naptownmenace
01-06-2009, 09:37 AM
JO's major problem is genetics. He has a bulky upper body with baseball bats for legs. It's no surprise that he sprains, hyper-extends his knees basically every year.

Still 14 points and 8 boards isn't terrible. His numbers are practically identical to Nene's and everyone has been talking about how great a season he's been having. His defense has still been solid but he's playing on a team that is equally as bad defensively as the Pacers were last year. The Raptors have bigger problems than JO - namely their bench and lack of team defense.

There are a lot of teams that could use a player like JO. He'd be a good player on teams like Cleveland, New Orleans, Boston, San Antonio, Detroit, Denver, or Utah. Basically, he needs to be on a team that focuses on half-court offense and defense more than the fast break up-tempo styles that he's been in the past 2 seasons.

2minutes twowa
01-06-2009, 10:26 AM
1) JO is averaging 14 and 8, not done by a longshot, will never be an allstar again, but can be useful, obv not worth 20mil

2) We kept the wrong PG, TJ fits our PHX-East system much better, Calderon is a halfcourt offense type of PG, would be great in detriot or something like that.

3) Larry fleeced us, Rasho is solid, if you give him PT, Barngagi has way more upside then JO as a C, BC should have traded Calderon + package for a slasher, not a washed up PF that will play C for us.

4) JO clogs up our offense, doesnt seem like a team guy, has instilled 0 intensity in our team (he is intense himself, but we need a guy KG like in getting the team to up its D as a whole, one guy cant solve our mess). We are seriously better w/o him.

5) Granger for JO sounds nice :P throw us a bone!

:laugh::applaud::rotflmao::lol2:

Is anyone else enjoying this as much as I am. Where's the espn writer that said Toronto was the obvious winner in this trade. There isn't a Pacers fan on the planet that didn't see this day coming? Sorry, just makes me chuckle:D If the Raptors made this deal mostly for the cap space in 2010, then it's not so bad. But if they truly believed that JO was going to propel them to a title contender, they got some splaining to do.

Roaming Gnome
01-06-2009, 10:46 AM
1) JO is averaging 14 and 8, not done by a longshot, will never be an allstar again, but can be useful, obv not worth 20mil

2) We kept the wrong PG, TJ fits our PHX-East system much better, Calderon is a halfcourt offense type of PG, would be great in detriot or something like that.

3) Larry fleeced us, Rasho is solid, if you give him PT, Barngagi has way more upside then JO as a C, BC should have traded Calderon + package for a slasher, not a washed up PF that will play C for us.

4) JO clogs up our offense, doesnt seem like a team guy, has instilled 0 intensity in our team (he is intense himself, but we need a guy KG like in getting the team to up its D as a whole, one guy cant solve our mess). We are seriously better w/o him.

5) Granger for JO sounds nice :P throw us a bone!

:whistle:"Never count your money, while your sitting at the table. There'll be time enough for countin'... When the game is done!" :whistle:

duke dynamite
01-06-2009, 10:51 AM
:whistle:"Never count your money, while your sitting at the table. There'll be time enough for countin'... When the game is done!" :whistle:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v623/madtv_viper/MADtv_Viper03/1005KennyReality01.jpg

Is Larry Bird really a drunken Kenny Rogers in disguise?

RaptorsFan
01-06-2009, 10:57 AM
Nobody expected us to be a contender with this move, we had an ugly PG situation as Me-Jay just refuses to come in off the bench (dont worry, you guys will see once he is 100%, as talented as he is, he has an ego to go with it), so we had to do something and trading a guy that is one bad fall from being a cripple (again, you will learn if you dont already know, and i like TJ alot) is a hard move to make and get fair value in return.

The real genius of the move from our standpoint is, it's very low risk, if it doesnt work out JO's contract should have some value to another team looking to unload for cap space, or we could just flat out let it expire and make our own moves in 2010. Im sure alot were hoping that JO would fit in better then he does, but it clogs us up, and whoever posted about him not getting touches etc.... guess what? We CAN score, we always could score, we dont need a big man that scores, we need boards and defense and a guy that takes up room and moves ppl around down low, JO isnt that guy. As for pointing out a big game he had, gratz to him, it was against the clippers minus Zach, Kaman and Camby.... any big could have a good game there, then he had a decent game vs the Kings, maybe the worst frontcourt in the league. If you have to get JO touches to be effective you are taking away touches from guys like Bosh, Barngagi, Calderon and Jkap who can all score at a better rate.

The JO experiment is failing in Toronto, Bargnani is on fire since JO has been out, any Pacer fans have an idea how JO would respond to coming off the bench? I have a bad feeling we have another Calderon/Ford drama on our hands if JO cant swallow his pride a bit.

duke dynamite
01-06-2009, 11:00 AM
The JO experiment is failing in Toronto, Bargnani is on fire since JO has been out, any Pacer fans have an idea how JO would respond to coming off the bench? I have a bad feeling we have another Calderon/Ford drama on our hands if JO cant swallow his pride a bit.
It's drama island up there in Canada, eh?

Bball
01-06-2009, 11:07 AM
The JO experiment is failing in Toronto, Bargnani is on fire since JO has been out, any Pacer fans have an idea how JO would respond to coming off the bench? I have a bad feeling we have another Calderon/Ford drama on our hands if JO cant swallow his pride a bit.

Can JO 'dominate' coming off the bench? Can he get back to the All-Star game coming off the bench or show his All-Star form?

If JO could swallow his pride and quit pretending he was the other ONeal he'd still be a Pacer...

-Bball

RaptorsFan
01-06-2009, 11:10 AM
Can JO 'dominate' coming off the bench? Can he get back to the All-Star game coming off the bench or show his All-Star form?

If JO could swallow his pride and quit pretending he was the other ONeal he'd still be a Pacer...

-Bball

That's what I and many others here in Raptors Nation are fearing, JO still seems to think he can be the JO of old, he simply cannot, he said all the right things coming here, but i think he just wanted out of Indy so bad, he would have said anything nice about w/e team he got moved too, nevermind a team that was actually a playoff team.

If he cant accept he will never be an allstar again, and nothing more then a decent role player, i dont think many teams will have use for him, it seems he really wants his numbers up for his next contract, like he isnt rich enough :P

Oneal07
01-06-2009, 11:23 AM
Raptors Fan. . Did u see that game where J.O. Dropped 36? From what I seen, I think he can be close. It's just that, the other players don't pass him the ball. If you have, Bosh, Bargs or O'neal on the court, why is Roko, taking the shots, why is Kapono shooting the ball. The ball has to run through the main guys. And from the game I've watched, when they did that, through either Bosh or O'neal, there was results. Raptors are a jump shooting happy team. They are playing good now, I mean showing that they want to play. And yeah, Bargnani is playing great. So tell me why he couldn't do that when O'neal was on the court? Maybe those players got mad that O'neal got on the squad, and now that he's getting traded they wanna step their game up? lol. I could be right, I could be wrong. But we all know Jermaine isn't the REAL problem. Raptors organization just want some excuses.

They still cry over Vince Carter lol, who ****s them up everytime he comes back to the ACC.

I don't think Raptors wanted O'neal anyway, I mean, when I went to go buy an O'neal Jersey, when the new black ones came out, Tell me how I couldn't even find one. That tells me a lot about the Raptors Org. They just want to sell an image to keep fans in the seat.

Hicks
01-06-2009, 11:31 AM
Yeah, I'd rather not have PD dripping with saracasm. Thanks.

Oneal07
01-06-2009, 11:35 AM
http://www.truecolorearth.com/tce-Nile-River.jpg

Longest River in the world. Denial.


Yeah, Whateva.

RaptorsFan
01-06-2009, 11:41 AM
Raptors Fan. . Did u see that game where J.O. Dropped 36? From what I seen, I think he can be close. It's just that, the other players don't pass him the ball. If you have, Bosh, Bargs or O'neal on the court, why is Roko, taking the shots, why is Kapono shooting the ball. The ball has to run through the main guys. And from the game I've watched, when they did that, through either Bosh or O'neal, there was results. Raptors are a jump shooting happy team. They are playing good now, I mean showing that they want to play. And yeah, Bargnani is playing great. So tell me why he couldn't do that when O'neal was on the court? Maybe those players got mad that O'neal got on the squad, and now that he's getting traded they wanna step their game up? lol. I could be right, I could be wrong. But we all know Jermaine isn't the REAL problem. Raptors organization just want some excuses.

They still cry over Vince Carter lol, who ****s them up everytime he comes back to the ACC.

I don't think Raptors wanted O'neal anyway, I mean, when I went to go buy an O'neal Jersey, when the new black ones came out, Tell me how I couldn't even find one. That tells me a lot about the Raptors Org. They just want to sell an image to keep fans in the seat.

Wow, you really think we brought JO here to be a "main guy"?? We brought him here to play D, grab boards and if he can score a few a game, thats a bonus, not to run our offense thru him. Have you been watching the raptors the last few years? Scoring has NEVER been a problem, til now, why is that??

You ask why is Kapono taking shots?? Ummm i dunno, he is the best 3 point shooter in the league and one of the best pure shooters ever?? Could be a small reason, but yea, i rather a washed up JO get shots over him.

Why doesnt Bargnani play well with JO in the lineup?? I dunno, he isnt a SF?? He shouldnt be playing SF, he is a big, he plays better as a big. JO is just a blackhole of offense that has one post up move, a fade, left or right and he still thinks he is a superstar, if he cant be simply a role player we have no use for him.

As for not getting your jersey i dunno, why do you want a JO Jersey anyways?? Hell i rather have a Joey Graham jersey, and ill openly admit he is half brain dead (the other half of his brain plays for Indy).

Again you mention the "36 he dropped" again, who was it against?? The Clippers without Kaman, Camby and Zach got hurt during the game?? Wow if that doesnt prove he is a superstar, nothing will.

count55
01-06-2009, 11:47 AM
Again you mention the "36 he dropped" again, who was it against?? The Clippers without Kaman, Camby and Zach got hurt during the game?? Wow if that doesnt prove he is a superstar, nothing will.


Actually, I think it probably would've been easier if Zach had played the whole game.





drip


drip:sarcasm:

;)

Oneal07
01-06-2009, 11:56 AM
Wow, you really think we brought JO here to be a "main guy"?? We brought him here to play D, grab boards and if he can score a few a game, thats a bonus, not to run our offense thru him. Have you been watching the raptors the last few years? Scoring has NEVER been a problem, til now, why is that??

You ask why is Kapono taking shots?? Ummm i dunno, he is the best 3 point shooter in the league and one of the best pure shooters ever?? Could be a small reason, but yea, i rather a washed up JO get shots over him.

Why doesnt Bargnani play well with JO in the lineup?? I dunno, he isnt a SF?? He shouldnt be playing SF, he is a big, he plays better as a big. JO is just a blackhole of offense that has one post up move, a fade, left or right and he still thinks he is a superstar, if he cant be simply a role player we have no use for him.

As for not getting your jersey i dunno, why do you want a JO Jersey anyways?? Hell i rather have a Joey Graham jersey, and ill openly admit he is half brain dead (the other half of his brain plays for Indy).

Again you mention the "36 he dropped" again, who was it against?? The Clippers without Kaman, Camby and Zach got hurt during the game?? Wow if that doesnt prove he is a superstar, nothing will.

I never said Raptors brought him here to be the main guy. I'm saying, If you watch games, when they threw him the ball down low, teams were throwing 3 defenders on him. Why? Cause coaches still respect his game. That's something people don't really see, they wouldn't trade for him, but they still throw 3 defenders at him?

Scoring has never been a problem for the Raptors till now, and the blame is JO? how can that be the case when they don't pass him the ball. That makes no sense to me.

Kapono would be jackin up shots without passing the ball to either Bosh or Oneal like he's the 1st option is what I meant to say. Raptors lose games this year because they don't go in the key. Last night against the bucks was the prime example

MillerTime
01-06-2009, 12:02 PM
I never said Raptors brought him here to be the main guy. I'm saying, If you watch games, when they threw him the ball down low, teams were throwing 3 defenders on him. Why? Cause coaches still respect his game. That's something people don't really see, they wouldn't trade for him, but they still throw 3 defenders at him?

Scoring has never been a problem for the Raptors till now, and the blame is JO? how can that be the case when they don't pass him the ball. That makes no sense to me.

Kapono would be jackin up shots without passing the ball to either Bosh or Oneal like he's the 1st option is what I meant to say. Raptors lose games this year because they don't go in the key. Last night against the bucks was the prime example

I agree. Saloman should not have shot that 3 at the end of the game. It should have went inside to Bosh

Major Cold
01-06-2009, 12:44 PM
retracted and I called a plumber....Really that was the last.

Oneal07
01-06-2009, 08:04 PM
I agree. Saloman should not have shot that 3 at the end of the game. It should have went inside to Bosh

You know how many games Raptors would have won if they would consistently go inside to the guys they pay all that money too.

Anthem
01-06-2009, 09:54 PM
You know how many games Raptors would have won if they would consistently go inside to the guys they pay all that money too.
Anybody see Bosh's amazing Dr J scoop? I'm still in awe.

Bball
01-07-2009, 12:40 AM
I never said Raptors brought him here to be the main guy. I'm saying, If you watch games, when they threw him the ball down low, teams were throwing 3 defenders on him. Why? Cause coaches still respect his game. That's something people don't really see, they wouldn't trade for him, but they still throw 3 defenders at him?

Scoring has never been a problem for the Raptors till now, and the blame is JO? how can that be the case when they don't pass him the ball. That makes no sense to me.

Kapono would be jackin up shots without passing the ball to either Bosh or Oneal like he's the 1st option is what I meant to say. Raptors lose games this year because they don't go in the key. Last night against the bucks was the prime example

And when they threw him the ball and those three defenders collapsed on him did he calmly find the open man for a nice in rhythm basket or quickly get the ball back out to force the defense to react and then have time to get it back to him with the defense scrambling? History says he did not but I've not watched one Raptors game this season. History says he held the ball and forced his patented fadeaway side of the rim clanker or threw a hot potato pass with the shot clock ticking away and no option but for the receiver to shoot out of rhythm.

If history is a guide it's no wonder you throw 3 defenders at him because he doesn't make you pay for that.

And that is why he was a chemistry killer here (IMO) (that and not practicing)... That's why JO never made any players around him better. He never made the game easier for anyone but rather was only worried about 'his' touches. I waited for years for JO to have the lighbulb game where it all clicked and he would see the bigger picture. It never happened. It doesn't sound like it's happening in Toronto either...

Tom White
01-07-2009, 09:33 AM
...he said all the right things.....

He has always said all the right things. At least publicly. If there was an all-star team for saying the right things, he would be the captain of that team.

Slick Pinkham
01-07-2009, 09:45 AM
If there is any validity in this rumor then IMO they should just hand out one post season award right now.

Larry Bird for Executive of the year!!!!!

Peck, I remember when you were blasted for a couple of years back for comparing JO to Drew Gooden. I now think that you comparison might indeed be a bit unfair...











to Drew Gooden

Major Cold
01-07-2009, 09:48 AM
Peck, I remember when you were blasted for a couple of years back for comparing JO to Drew Gooden. I now think that you comparison might indeed be a bit unfair...











to Drew Gooden

pwned!!

Oneal07
01-07-2009, 02:19 PM
And when they threw him the ball and those three defenders collapsed on him did he calmly find the open man for a nice in rhythm basket or quickly get the ball back out to force the defense to react and then have time to get it back to him with the defense scrambling? History says he did not but I've not watched one Raptors game this season. History says he held the ball and forced his patented fadeaway side of the rim clanker or threw a hot potato pass with the shot clock ticking away and no option but for the receiver to shoot out of rhythm.

If history is a guide it's no wonder you throw 3 defenders at him because he doesn't make you pay for that.

And that is why he was a chemistry killer here (IMO) (that and not practicing)... That's why JO never made any players around him better. He never made the game easier for anyone but rather was only worried about 'his' touches. I waited for years for JO to have the lighbulb game where it all clicked and he would see the bigger picture. It never happened. It doesn't sound like it's happening in Toronto either...

He's passed it out to the open shooter and they did a good job swinging the ball to the open man and getting good looks. But there's still they typical JO move going into the two defenders in the paint. But he rarely did it as much. But throwing it in the post was effective. But sometimes the Raptors would stand around and not even cut to the basket lol. They love that 3 point line lol.

I'm basically calling it how I watched the games. If I believe Jermaine was killing our offense, I would have came out and said that, but he isn't. When the ball goes through him, there's results. I don't see how some Raptors fans can't see it. Then again, most of them just read the paper the next day, and that's their opinion until they read something else. I'm tired of these Corporate fans.

I know the story about JO here, and I know he could have been better if healthy, but what's done is done. I'm talking about his play in Toronto. He's rarely attenpted that fadeaway, he did it a few times on Pryzbilla and was successful both times. There's been games where he would block shots while RUNNING back on D, but no one else on the Raptors would follow him to recover and the team still scores. U can see the frustration, because JO did say. that the Raptors played DEFENSE, when he came here. He's probably kicking himself for saying that lol.

RaptorsFan
01-07-2009, 09:36 PM
Sorry bud, but i question everything you are saying? All JO does is that stupid fadeaway over ppl, he never finds the open man never passes well outta a double and is basically a poor mans bosh, rebounds about the same, only plays a bit better D, but Bosh is way better offensively, notice we play much better with him out? Let me guess, you think this is just luck, its not like having two players that are horrible at identifying doubles coming (Bosh is better hten JO at it tho) and need a bunch of touches to get going doesnt work out.... get a grip, JO is a big factor in why our offense sucks, you talk about loving the 3, but we arent scoring the 3 like we did in the last couple years, because JO is such a horrible passer and doesnt find the open man when he does get doubled, he needs to go away, and go away quickly, or accept being on the bench, everything you are saying makes no sense when we are playing WAY better without him, he clogs up everything, and his basketball IQ isnt high at all, esp on offense.

Kids, SAY NO TO JO!!!

BlueNGold
01-07-2009, 10:28 PM
Sorry bud, but i question everything you are saying? All JO does is that stupid fadeaway over ppl, he never finds the open man never passes well outta a double and is basically a poor mans bosh, rebounds about the same, only plays a bit better D, but Bosh is way better offensively, notice we play much better with him out? Let me guess, you think this is just luck, its not like having two players that are horrible at identifying doubles coming (Bosh is better hten JO at it tho) and need a bunch of touches to get going doesnt work out.... get a grip, JO is a big factor in why our offense sucks, you talk about loving the 3, but we arent scoring the 3 like we did in the last couple years, because JO is such a horrible passer and doesnt find the open man when he does get doubled, he needs to go away, and go away quickly, or accept being on the bench, everything you are saying makes no sense when we are playing WAY better without him, he clogs up everything, and his basketball IQ isnt high at all, esp on offense.

Kids, SAY NO TO JO!!!

My, oh my. It's hard to quantify how accurate this post is. In some ways, it's a little unfair that you are such a quick study. But this is only part of the JO story of course. I have great confidence you will complete the loop.

But all is not lost. The good news for the Raptors is, the pain will only be temporary.

NuffSaid
01-08-2009, 06:28 PM
JO's major problem is genetics. He has a bulky upper body with baseball bats for legs. It's no surprise that he sprains, hyper-extends his knees basically every year.

Still 14 points and 8 boards isn't terrible. His numbers are practically identical to Nene's and everyone has been talking about how great a season he's been having. His defense has still been solid but he's playing on a team that is equally as bad defensively as the Pacers were last year. The Raptors have bigger problems than JO - namely their bench and lack of team defense.

There are a lot of teams that could use a player like JO. He'd be a good player on teams like Cleveland, New Orleans, Boston, San Antonio, Detroit, Denver, or Utah. Basically, he needs to be on a team that focuses on half-court offense and defense more than the fast break up-tempo styles that he's been in the past 2 seasons.
100% on point here.

JO wouldn't fit in here because this team no longer plays a half-court style. (Not to mention I doubt any of the players, particularly Granger, would want him back.) But naptown is right. 14/8 isn't bad for a guy who plays Center but is a PF. There are bound to be teams interested in him, but JO simply needs to put his ego aside and start realizing he's no longer a 20/10 guy...more a reserve at this stage of his career than a starter, but can still contribute.

BlueNGold
01-08-2009, 06:52 PM
100% on point here.

JO wouldn't fit in here because this team no longer plays a half-court style. (Not to mention I doubt any of the players, particularly Granger, would want him back.) But naptown is right. 14/8 isn't bad for a guy who plays Center but is a PF. There are bound to be teams interested in him, but JO simply needs to put his ego aside and start realizing he's no longer a 20/10 guy...more a reserve at this stage of his career than a starter, but can still contribute.

JO's averages are not the problem at all. Even his poor FG% is not the problem.

JO doesn't fit in here or anywhere because he doesn't play consistently. I would rather have a 10/6 player who played every night and you could rely on, than a 14/8 player who is gone half the season.

The fact JO @50% is better than a number of PF's in the NBA on the nights he plays has very little to do with the problem. Consistency and attendance are the biggest reasons why he is a boat anchor.

dlewyus
01-08-2009, 07:19 PM
JO's averages are not the problem at all. Even his poor FG% is not the problem.

JO doesn't fit in here or anywhere because he doesn't play consistently. I would rather have a 10/6 player who played every night and you could rely on, than a 14/8 player who is gone half the season.

The fact JO @50% is better than a number of PF's in the NBA on the nights he plays has very little to do with the problem. Consistency and attendance are the biggest reasons why he is a boat anchor.

Not to mention that he is always nursing enought injuries that he never has to practice.

"Practice ?, Practice?, etc." - Iverson :rolleyes:

Jon Theodore
01-08-2009, 07:31 PM
pwned!!

I seem to remember saying Drew Gooden would be much better to have than JO, i was the only one who agreed with Peck on that one.

YoSoyIndy
01-08-2009, 09:16 PM
100% on point here.

JO wouldn't fit in here because this team no longer plays a half-court style. (Not to mention I doubt any of the players, particularly Granger, would want him back.) But naptown is right. 14/8 isn't bad for a guy who plays Center but is a PF. There are bound to be teams interested in him, but JO simply needs to put his ego aside and start realizing he's no longer a 20/10 guy...more a reserve at this stage of his career than a starter, but can still contribute.

It's more than genetics w/ JO. It's his mindset. He talked himself up bigger and better than he ever was -- even during the "MVP run" season. He wasn't a locker room leader. He wasn't a guy you could count on whether down the stretch or game-to-game.

14/8 guys are great until they have the locker room swagger of a 40/20 guy.